ListNook

Hi all, Over the past few months, we’ve talked a lot about our desktop redesign—[why we’re doing it](https://www.listnook.com/r/blog/comments/7ul5k9/hey_were_here_to_talk_about_that_desktop_redesign/), [moderation/styling tools we’re adding](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/7xjt6g/because_its_valentines_day_heres_a_longwinded/), and, most recently, [how you all have shaped our designs](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/817lmi/til_listnook_has_a_design_team/). Today, we’re going to try something a little different. We’d like to take all of you on a field trip, [to the Museum of Listnook](https://i.redd.it/q6mjp4v3jyl01.png)! When we started our work on the redesign over a year ago, we looked at pretty much every launch since 2005 to see what our team could learn from studying the way new features were rolled out in the past $on Listnook [and other sites](http://i.imgur.com/AnWAj.png)$. So, before I preview another new feature our team has been working on, I want to share some highlights from the history books, for new listnookors who may not realize how much the site has changed over the years and for those of you on your 12th cake day, who have seen it all. **Trippin’ Through Time** When Listnook launched back in June of 2005, it was a different time. Destiny’s Child was breaking up, Pink Floyd was getting back together, and Listnook’s front page [looked like this](https://i.listnookmedia.com/oJ11JvxA3BkhXO0PpFpWXmIV2uh-BYR9EPZnVDq5LnA.png?fm=jpg&s=7e4e95ba4adabf6e145915d1c733f456). In the site’s early days, [u/spez](/user/spez) and [u/kn0thing](/user/kn0thing) played around with the design in PaintShopPro 5, did the first user tests [by putting a laptop with Listnook on it in front of strangers at Starbucks](http://listnook.blogspot.com/2006/05/usability-testing-soy-lattes.html), and introduced the foundation of our desktop design, with a cleaned\-up look for the front page, a handful of sorting options, and our beloved alien mascot [Snoo](https://listnookblog.com/2013/06/05/whats-snoo/). As Listnook grew, the admins steadily rolled out changes that brought it closer to the Listnook you recognize today. $Spoiler: Many of these changes were not received well at the time...$ They launched commenting. $The first comment, fittingly, was about how [comments are going to ruin Listnook](https://www.listnook.com/r/listnook.com/comments/17913/listnook_now_supports_comments/c51/).$ They recoded the entire site [from Lisp to Python](https://i.listnookmedia.com/48017v6J81HC92oyTdMISeYBB2220RuEHLnwgKxaiTE.png?fm=jpg&s=cf036e42ab63a0d7df8b7c882a312217). They added [limits on the lengths of post titles](https://www.listnook.com/r/listnook.com/comments/z9yk/listnook_headlines_have_been_getting_longer_and/). And in 2008, they rolled out a beta for Listnook’s biggest change to date: [user\-created sublistnooks](https://listnookblog.com/2008/01/22/new-features/). It’s hard to imagine Listnook without sublistnooks now, but as a new feature, it [wasn’t without controversy](https://www.listnook.com/r/listnook.com/comments/1328g/upvote_if_you_want_to_get_rid_of_all_the/). In fact, many users felt that Listnook should be organized by tags, not communities, and [argued](http://listnook.com/r/listnook.com/comments/1328g/upvote_if_you_want_to_get_rid_of_all_the/) [passionately](http://listnook.com/r/listnook.com/comments/66kre/the_horror_of_sublistnooks_first_comes_applelistnook/) [against](http://listnook.com/r/listnook.com/comments/67gqd/is_it_just_me_or_is_the_sublistnook_system/) [sublistnooks](http://listnook.com/r/listnook.com/comments/68gcp/instead_of_these_sublistnooks_can_we_have_a_tagging/). $Fun fact: That same year, the admins also launched [our first desktop redesign](https://listnookblog.com/2008/05/26/listnook-design-changes-for-real-this-time/), which received its share of [good](https://www.listnook.com/r/listnook.com/comments/6kury/listnook_design_changes_for_real_this_time/c044xpr/), [bad](https://www.listnook.com/r/listnook.com/comments/6kury/listnook_design_changes_for_real_this_time/c044xwp/), and [constructive](https://www.listnook.com/r/listnook.com/comments/6kury/listnook_design_changes_for_real_this_time/c044ybr/) reviews.$ During those early years, Listnook had an extremely small staff that spent most of their time scaling the site to keep up with our growing user base instead of launching a lot of new features. But they did start taking some of the best ideas from the community and bringing them in\-house, moving Listnook Gifts from a user\-run project to an official part of Listnook and turning a [cumbersome URL trick](https://listnook.com/r/listnook.com/comments/bf1lh/are_you_aware_you_can_combine_sublistnooks_in_the/) people used to make multilistnooks into [a supported feature](https://www.listnook.com/r/blog/comments/1iwd5i/new_create_and_share_your_own_collections_of/). That approach of looking to the community first has shaped the features we’ve built in the years since then, like [image hosting](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/4p5dm9/image_hosting_on_listnook/) $my first project as an admin$, [video hosting](https://listnookblog.com/2017/08/17/video-is-coming-to-listnook/), [mobile apps](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/4dqxgt/listnook_mobile_apps/), [mobile mod tools](https://www.listnook.com/r/modnews/comments/7l33mt/new_mod_tools_on_native_mobile/), [flair](https://www.listnook.com/r/modnews/comments/j1piv/moderators_give_your_users_some_flair/), [live threads](https://listnookblog.com/2014/07/23/announcing-listnook-live/), [spoiler tags](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/5or86n/spoilers_tags_for_posts/), and [crossposting](https://www.listnook.com/r/modnews/comments/7a5ubn/crossposting_coming_soon_to_your_sublistnook/), to name a few. **What Did We Learn? Did We Learn Things? Let's Find Out!** Throughout all of these launches, two themes have stood out time and time again: * You all have shown us millions of creative ways to use Listnook, and our best features have been the ones that unlock more user creativity. * The best way to roll out a new feature is to get user feedback, early and often. With the desktop redesign, we built structured styles so that anyone can give their sublistnook a unique look and feel without learning to code. We revamped mod tools, taking inspiration from popular third\-party tools and CSS hacks, so mods can do things like [set post requirements](https://i.redd.it/b6ubx3lpy6g01.gif) and [take bulk actions](https://i.redd.it/6mdi08dltnwz.gif) more easily. And we engineered an entirely new tech stack to allow our teams to adapt faster in response to your feedback $more on that in our next blog post about engineering!$. **Previewing... Inline Images in Text Posts** One feature we recently rolled out in the redesign is our Rich Text Editor, which allows you to format your posts without markdown and, for the first time, include inline images within text posts! Like anything we’ve built in the past, we expect our desktop redesign to evolve a lot as we bring more users in to test it, but we’re excited to see all of the creative ways you use it along the way. In the meantime, all mods now have access to the redesign, with invites for more users coming soon. $Thank you to everyone who’s given feedback so far!$ If you receive an invite in your inbox, please take a moment to play around with the redesign and let us know what you think. And if you’d like to be part of our next group of testers, subscribe to r/beta!

199 Comments

hansjens47 Mar 15, 2018 +4938

>The best way to roll out a new feature is to get user feedback, early and often. You're missing the most important step here: incorporating the suggested feedback and having leadership that has sufficient resolve and tenacity to change track when they see something isn't working as one'd hoped. ---- I'd love a list of the 10 biggest changes in policy and vision you've made as a result of user-feedback since the alpha of the redesign. Where were you most wrong and what did you learn from being wrong on those issues? How is that helping the team get the redesign even more right prior to launch?

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aeiluindae Mar 15, 2018 +29

There's an aphorism I've heard a bunch in the context of game development that the users are very good at noticing when there is a problem, but very bad at articulating where the problem actually is or how best to solve it. And of course there's the fact that people who are happy with things usually don't have strong enough feelings to actually say anything, so the discussion is often skewed very negatively. As a result, a fairly delicate balance has to be struck between being visibly responsive so that your user base doesn't think you don't care, trying to sort out exactly what all your data means, figuring out whether or not you actually do know better than your users (meaning they'll like it better than the old over time), and deciding what changes are likely to actually solve the problems that you have sussed out the existence of. It's not easy. There's a reason so many websites, software developers, hardware designers, and business owners get these things wrong relatively frequently. My own bit of feedback on the new design from my short time with it is that something feels wrong with the whitespace on all the available post layouts. Maybe it's that I'm just used to listnook being really strongly aligned to the left of the window (maximized Firefox on a 1080p 16:9 screen that is one of two monitors, usually the right-hand one) and the new interface breaks with that, but I'm not sure that's the totality of it. The comments page was fine but the overall browsing was not.

Amg137 Mar 15, 2018 +1385

> You're missing the most important step here: incorporating the suggested feedback You're right, and the incorporation has been the whole point of getting feedback for us. I asked the team to give me some of their favorite changes that they made as a result of user feedback, so they'll comment below.

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scruggsnotdrugz Mar 15, 2018 +1057

We're responding to feedback on user\-facing features, too! 1. Early on, **sublistnook navigation** lived in a dropdown out of the header. The list was short and just didn't work for people with lots of subscriptions. We ended up building out a full navigation panel, tricked out with new features like favorites, filtering, and collapsable sections. 2. Originally, our **Classic Mode** was one of four view modes. We heard from folks who wanted a more familiar Listnook, so we returned to vertical voting, emphasized expandos on the post, and reduced the number of modes provided. Now Classic is the default for logged in users, and it's my favorite view too :\) 3. Now the big one: **Whitespace**. Originally, we centered posts on Listnook and maxxed our width. This was for readability reasons and followed web standards. But it wasn't good enough. Now, we're working on a version that makes Classic and Compact modes full width always for everyone. Left\-aligned content, no more whitespace.

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dontgive_afuck Mar 15, 2018 +187

Regarding "Classic Mode". The way I understand it, and it seemed to be [confirmed here](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/817lmi/til_listnook_has_a_design_team/dv12980/), is that "Classic Mode" will simply be this site as it currently exists, with whatever functionalities that may be added in redesign potentially not working with it. I ask as an RES user who has made quite a few changes in appearance site-wide through the use of CSS. And I would assume any little change in the inner workings of the page may break any changes I have made on my end. Just curious if I should still be worried about this, or will "Classic Mode", indeed just be this site, as I currently use it. Appreciate you guys:)

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scruggsnotdrugz Mar 15, 2018 +105

Looks like this is a **classic** case of wires getting crossed [:\)](http://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot&play=true) We have a way of viewing content in the new site called "Classic Mode" which should feel very familiar to current users. I think you're referring to the current site as the "Classic" Listnook \- we will continue to maintain the current Listnook for a while, worry not. Our hope is that eventually you'll come to love to the new site as much as we do. If there are changes you've made to make Listnook work better for you, I'd love to hear 'em. Appreciate you too!

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[deleted] Mar 16, 2018 +39

I hastily reacted initially, but I do hate the majority of these changes. 1) profiles - this isn't Facebook or twitter or Instagram. We shouldn't be all about self promotion. In fact that kind of goes against reddiquette as a core concept. 2) inline images - having images in text posts is already achieved through direct links. Coupled with RES this allows for expandable inline images. If inline is now to be the default, it should default to closed with the option for the user to expand the image. 3) the complete and wilfull way this entire team ignore the community feedback. As a community we think this sucks & we think you suck. We do want certain changes, but we like Listnook because it's Listnook. We don't want a b****** child of a traditional forum and Instagram. The singular thing I like. 1) markdown changes. Markdown is confusing for new users and giving simple button toggles for bolding, italics and adding links to text posts is a fantastic idea. It's one that RES incorporated years ago.

MissLauralot Mar 16, 2018 +12

Some good, constructive feedback here - click parent. Well, maybe not #3 so much but still. u/scruggsnotdrugz

onan Mar 15, 2018 +130

> we will continue to maintain the current Listnook for a while, worry not. With the nebulousness of "a while," I assure you that I am worrying much.

130

Ukani Mar 15, 2018 +25

I would imagine "a while" would mean at least until they get CSS working on the new redesign (Im not a programmer so I have no idea wtf Im talking about). Ultimately though you cant really expect Listnook to never change just so your personal alterations dont get broken. I like Listnook like it is now, but I understand they need to actually make it look like a site from post 2010 if they want to stay relevant to the new generation. Remember people born in 2000 are turning 18 this year and starting college. This is Listnook demo and they are not going to want to use a site that looks like it was made for AOL.

Inprobamur Mar 15, 2018 +34

> we will continue to maintain the current Listnook for a while, worry not. Maximum worry achieved.

dontgive_afuck Mar 15, 2018 +6

Ah, ok. I kinda had a hunch this wasn't going to be the case. I was hoping that the old site would still be accessible indefinitely, but also understand how that would probably be impractical considering that would likely entail substantial work to maintain on top of everything else. Oh, well. I'm sure I'll probably end up liking most of the changes. I do hope there is enough of a grace period given for the peeps over at RES to play catch-up, though. From what I've read, it seems like you guys are all communicating amongst each other, which is super. As far as the changes I have made for myself; they aren't anything more than using CSS templates (where I got I cannot remember--somewhere on Listnook, though) passed through RES to make their night mode darker, and making more use of highlights-just aesthetics. So, not really anything I'd imagine you guys could use to make functionality any better. Thanks for asking, though, and thanks for the get back:)

EvilAnagram Mar 16, 2018 +6

> Our hope is that eventually you'll come to love to the new site as much as we do. Historically, that's just not likely. Sure, newer users will latch onto it as the original means through which they explore Listnook, but older users will almost certainly react more negatively to it than the designers.

HittingSmoke Mar 15, 2018 +171

The listnook media hosting has been a huge step back in navigation. There's a "Comments" link under the DIRECT LINK when hosting anywhere else. But listnook is for some reason determined to milk ad impressions by now duplicating those buttons to both go to the COMMENTS when one clicks the DIRECT LINK! This has broken many apps by creating page load loops where the app tries to load a video or image and it just infinitely redirects to the comments. Yet every time I bring this up it gets ignored.

171

metaphorical_badger Mar 15, 2018 +60

Looks like it's being ignored this time, too. It's a real problem when using the unofficial "listnook is fun" android app, which I've used since day one - more so than desktop. Unfortunately, if the annoyance pushes more people towards using the desktop version, (where they can see ads) or to listnooks official android/iOS apps (where they can see, presumably, ads? I dont know, I don't use the official app - number of downloads maybe?), then listnook will continue to be "unable" to fix this bug.

Kathend1 Mar 15, 2018 +8

Shoot it happens on the native app too, any best of link, if I want to see it, I have to go to the browser, long press the link and select "open in new tab" otherwise it just redirects to the app and gives me the comment section for the r/bestof post, not the linked comment itself. Edit: this is because any r/bestof post visible in the native app goes directly to the comments, and the link in the app never works.

V2Blast Mar 15, 2018 +22

> Early on, sublistnook navigation lived in a dropdown out of the header. The list was short and just didn't work for people with lots of subscriptions. We ended up building out a full navigation panel, tricked out with new features like favorites, filtering, and collapsable sections. Well, the navigation panel still doesn't work for me... presumably because of my number of subscribed sublistnooks.

MajorParadox Mar 15, 2018 +35

>Originally, our Classic Mode was one of four view modes. Ooh what was the fourth mode?

scruggsnotdrugz Mar 15, 2018 +57

There was a slightly bigger "classic" mode with bigger thumbnails and Tonka type; we called it "Medium". There was also a small\-than\-today Classic mode that was one thumbnail away from being Compact Mode $which at the time called "Super\-Compact$. Oh what a journey it's been.

Drunken_Economist Mar 15, 2018 +27

Having used the full width for the last few days, I can confirm: it's everything I wanted

dmoneyyyyy Mar 15, 2018 +261

Chiming in from the mod tools side: 1. We heard feedback that mod tools were difficult to get to, and that some of the frequent mod actions were getting in the way of your regular browsing experience. We're getting ready to deploy some changes that will make mod tools easier to navigate, and a "mod mode" similar to the official apps that will get the actions out of your way when all you wanna do is browse. We're also working on pulling more of the mod actions out of drop downs to make them more readily accessible. 2. We also received feedback that removal reasons were a crucial tool and needed to be built natively, so we've shipped the first version of it and are in planning stages for iterations. We recently made a call out to collect feedback around what we're working on next for the feature — check it out [here](https://www.listnook.com/r/redesign/comments/81jlnd/mods_a_penny_for_your_removal_reason_thoughts/)! 3. There was also feedback that our widgets didn't yet have enough functionality that allowed mods to do as they could on the classic side bar, and a CSS widget was highly requested. CSS widgets are now available, but we also heard that the character limit was too low, which is fair! In the coming weeks, we'll be bumping the character limit from 1000 to 100,000 $and we'll also be bumping the text area widget from a 1000 character limit to 10,000!$ so you can do more $sup, r/europe?$.

261

robbit42 Mar 15, 2018 +9

> 3\. There was also feedback that our widgets didn't yet have enough functionality that allowed mods to do as they could on the classic side bar, and a CSS widget was highly requested. CSS widgets are now available, but we also heard that the character limit was too low, which is fair! In the coming weeks, we'll be bumping the character limit from 1000 to 100,000 (and we'll also be bumping the text area widget from a 1000 character limit to 10,000!) so you can do more (sup, r/europe?). Ayyy!!

LanterneRougeOG Mar 15, 2018 +252

Feedback from listnookors has been super helpful to our team, the creators. 1. Originally we were only planning to have a rich text Fancy Pants editor. Early feedback made it clear that many listnookors love markdown and find it valuable. As a result, we've added a Markdown Mode for posts and comments. 2. Speaking of Fancy Pants. We've significantly changed the rich text editor from it's original design. This has included adding images/gifs to self posts, making it easier to switch to markdown mode, and countless other tweaks that we've heard from people's feedback in r/redesign. 3. Inline spoilers. We had originally not planned to make this a native feature at launch, but based on feedback we realized it was critical to a initial launch. We are adding support for a new inline spoiler syntax across the redesign, the classic site, and our native apps.

252

CaptainPedge Mar 15, 2018 +28

> Originally we were only planning to have a rich text Fancy Pants editor. Early feedback made it clear that many listnookors love markdown and find it valuable. As a result, we've added a Markdown Mode for posts and comments. What on earth convinced you that rich text only was the right way to go? Thank god you saw sense on that one

Ener_Ji Mar 16, 2018 +14

Is support for tables coming to the RTE and the redesign? Last time I checked, large, content\-filled tables created on the legacy site aren't even viewable on the redesign.

Zmodem Mar 15, 2018 +17

Any possibility that the new editors for comments, messages, etc will get a [preview button](https://i.imgur.com/fLeXGcw.png) so we can see our formatting before sending them adrift?

mxzf Mar 15, 2018 +12

RES to the rescue. I didn't even realize that wasn't a default setting since RES has a preview of the post that it shows you so you can see the formatting.

Zmodem Mar 15, 2018 +5

Yep. That's why many people use RES, to compensate for a lot of vanilla listnook shortcomings. That being said, I don't see the issue with listnook implementing this feature outright. I guess it would require a lot of real-time objects to load. The new active page management (you can choose to load comment pages in a tab or see them immediately overlay onto your listing pages) confirms that this type of presentation is already happening, so employing a real-time preview should be a no-brainer.

Cocomorph Mar 15, 2018 +7

Bless you for inline spoilers. My other biggest wish is the ability to display mathematics reasonably -- even just adding subscripting and handling superscripting more flexibly would be very welcome.

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +147

Why doesn't the search function work properly? I have to resort the googling the sub listnook in order to find it. For example: "Choosingbeggars" brings up the proper sub. "Choosingbeggar" (leaving out the 'S') brings up subs that aren't even related. Why is it so hard to search within your own site?

147

SleepyBananaLion Mar 15, 2018 +45

Oh hell yeah. The search function on listnook is effectively worthless. Like you said, using the search feature is useless compared to simply googling listnook + whatever you're looking for.

godickygodickygo Mar 15, 2018 +12

this needs more attention. I get the most random subs from searching for a popular one. I don’t think it should be that hard to find ones with 20,000+ subs instead of 7 subs with >5,000 followers.

codeverity Mar 15, 2018 +103

Tagging on here because I noticed something that has me curious - have you guys changed the algorithm for the front page (not all)? I've noticed that I'm seeing posts from smaller subs I'm subscribed to that don't have as many upvotes more often, which is great. I'm not sure whether it's just random or an actual change on Listnook's part - I've only noticed it the last couple of days.

103

internetmallcop Mar 15, 2018 +117

It sounds like you're experiencing [this](https://www.listnook.com/r/changelog/comments/7spgg0/best_is_the_new_hotness/). We're running experiments aimed at making the home page more personalized, so curious to hear what you think. This post goes into more detail about [what we think when we think about ranking](https://www.listnook.com/r/changelog/comments/7hkvjn/what_we_think_about_when_we_think_about_ranking/).

117

codeverity Mar 15, 2018 +41

Oooh, thanks!! I tried looking over at the beta sub because I am opted in there, but I thought I'd ask here in the hopes that someone might have an answer for me. It's only been a couple of days but I do actually quite like it so far. It means that I'm not just seeing the same subs with the same content that get tons of upvotes - I feel like some of the smaller subs are surfacing more. From the comments it seems like I can go to 'hot' to get back to what I would have seen before, which is great. It's interesting that I'm only noticing it now, though, considering it seems like it was to be rolled out a month ago, unless that was delayed.

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +21

[deleted]

TotalyNotMyPornAcc Mar 15, 2018 +70

My other five year old account got a 10 day sitewide ban for saying that the image and video hosting suck ass and that it ruins the ability to share a video and image, and not working well on mobile/some apps. That doesn't seem like accepting feedback. Seems like you just want to make facebook 2.0 .

DenseHole Mar 15, 2018 +30

This right here is my biggest complaint. You can't share Listnook Videos. I'm pretty sure they want to keep it that way to try and force more people to come to listnook itself but I simply refuse to do that.

CelineHagbard Mar 16, 2018 +5

Plus, the videos are extremely slow to load on one of the internet connections I regularly use. 720p video from youtube buffers in a second or two; v.listnook.com regularly take 10 seconds to buffer a 30 second video, and it's not even 720. There doesn't appear to be an option to downscale the resolution/bitrate, either. I'm assuming this has to do with listnook's CDN not being as robust as Youtube's, but it makes me skip a lot more v.listnook videos as a result, and I imagine it's the same for a lot of people with spottier connections. I'm not sure on this, but I think the lack of ability to choose a bitrate means a lot of people on mobile will end up eating through their data caps a lot faster than they'd like. V.listnook might be great for listnook, but it's bad for a lot of the users.

internetmallcop Mar 15, 2018 +325

It looks like we're one short of 10.... >!Nightmode!< We see this come up in r/redesign all the time, it's one of the top requested features.

325

falconbox Mar 15, 2018 +83

RE: Spoilers, Please give us an option to hint at what the spoiler may be.

LanterneRougeOG Mar 15, 2018 +85

The initial version doesn't include hints. We focused on making the basic spoiler interaction work across all platforms. That being said, we want to bring hint text to it very soon.

montas Mar 15, 2018 +26

Can you give some insight on how this process works internally? I mean, you guys must have known that many subs already use CSS hacks to create "spoiler tags". Most of the time they use hover for showing and some optional hint text. So you see these and how they are working as intended. Only problem is, they are not cross platform compatible. As in, they don't work in apps where css is missing. Isn't that the only thing you have to solve? At what point did you decide to make spoilers clickable? Don't get me wrong, it looks nice (the whole blur animation) but I can tell you, I would much more prefer hover instead of click, and have it hide back if I move away from spoiler. Reason is, sometimes you only want to peek and see what is the spoiler talking about. But I can still change my mind after a few words and not read the rest. Also I really hope that if you include hints, they will always be visible, even after I reveal spoiler.

LanterneRougeOG Mar 15, 2018 +34

We had originally not planned to make spoilers a native feature for the launch of the redesign, but based on feedback we realized it was critical to the initial launch. We scoped back the engineering effort for the initial version of it to keep things simple and make sure it works across all the platforms. We didn't want to use the link style syntax that some subs already use because it's not screen reader friendly and it is difficult to make it work on all platforms. Lastly, we want to get the new spoilers out in the open so that we can start gathering valuable feedback. Your example of wanting to quickly peak is interesting and something I haven't heard of from folks. Feedback from listnookors is important to us and I find the best feedback comes from people who have the opportunity to use the features and really test them out. edit: grammar

[deleted] Mar 16, 2018 +18

FreeSpeechWarrior Mar 15, 2018 +30

Just wanted to say, I genuinely love the new spoiler feature. You should maybe try to get it adopted into http://commonmark.org as a standard.

Shinhan Mar 15, 2018 +12

> The start number of an ordered list is significant. Woah, it would be great if listnook would implement commonmark. Too many people are surprised when they start a numbered list from a number larger than 1 and then get 3. something like this

pessimistic_platypus Mar 15, 2018 +5

While I love that you've added spoiler tags, there is one _major_ issue with the version currently available. The mobile website renders them in clear text, with no indication _at all_ that it was meant to be a spoiler, not even the surrounding `>!` and `!<`. This is _very_ bad. --- Also, are there any plans to implement the missing features of CommonMark? I would love quite a few of those, especially `\`\`\``-delimited code blocks and reference links (both named and numbered). --- Also, why didn't you use something like `` or `[!``!]` for spoilers? Using `>``<` as pair in that order is pretty gross.

Figs Mar 15, 2018 +95

Did you take into consideration my feedback regarding the ability to browse Listnook without JavaScript? [My post to you last month](https://www.listnook.com/r/blog/comments/7ul5k9/hey_were_here_to_talk_about_that_desktop_redesign/dtlbwor/) including that and other concerns received 100+ upvotes, but never got an official response. As a 10+ year user of the site, mandatory JS just to read the site is one of the few things you can do to drive me away. You already do that on the mobile interface (which is why I do not use it); I'm very concerned for the future of desktop listnook as a result.

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +65

disagreeable squash ludicrous frightening wakeful one grey gray salt concerned *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev/home)*

casualblair Mar 15, 2018 +20

Incorporating feedback is difficult because if you do some but not others users complain. Vocal minorities are real things and loud people show up more frequently, obscuring real feedback. And documenting the process "we went with this one because..." just puts a target on your back for all the reasons you didn't say. I agree it's important but too many people expect the company to bend to the community when the act of bending itself has real consequences.

got_milk4 Mar 15, 2018 +618

> In the meantime, all mods now have access to the redesign I'm a mod (technically...), but never saw any invites or notifications of access. What gives?

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Amg137 Mar 15, 2018 +464

We added [all moderators last week](https://www.listnook.com/r/modnews/comments/831pzi/try_out_the_new_mod_tools_and_style_your/) all you have to do is go to your settings and check [this box. ](https://i.redd.it/wqzvydv0qfk01.png)

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thndrchld Mar 15, 2018 +383

Me: "Oh, neat. I'll go check that out." Checks that out. Holy c***. I really like this. Also, the hamburger menu greatly amuses me. As long as this maintains all of the old functionality, then I say great job!

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[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +26

Yeah, I've been loud about wanting to keep some kind of theme as close to the Listnook we have now, but I really like the classic redesign. It still has a few more fixes to go until I completely jump over but they're most of the way there. /u/Amg137 - any way your team can add the RES feature that lets you enlarge and shrink pictures from the front page?

gordigor Mar 15, 2018 +12

So much empty white space and tiny text. Feels like I accidently hit the mobile site on the desktop.

Zagorath Mar 16, 2018 +5

> the hamburger menu greatly amuses me It amuses me too, as someone who knows what the reference is. But I used the term "hamburger menu" in conversation the other day and had the person ask me what it is. Users don't know that that's what it's called, and breaking with basic established design patterns is extremely poor design. It leads to confused and frustrated users.

Condawg Mar 15, 2018 +63

God damn, would you look at that? This is pretty neat EDIT: Hamburger menu button is a hamburger. I dig it. EDIT 2: Is there keyboard navigation? Looks as if RES isn't working (expectedly)

[deleted] Mar 16, 2018 +9

MC_Kloppedie Mar 15, 2018 +19

u/got_milk4, You can also do this temporarily by replacing "www" with "alpha" This is a bit handier when you're switching between styles to redesign your subs. https://alpha.listnook.com/r/announcements/

MissLauralot Mar 16, 2018 +5

Hey MC_Kloppedie. Thanks for the link. Straight away I see a promoted post in amongst the others on [/r/vexillology](https://alpha.listnook.com/r/vexillology/). Wait, there are ***several*** of them. One I could've handled... There are no post numbers on the left either. I also noticed that the 'fancy-pants-markdown' doesn't allow for nested superscripts and quotes. The main thing I don't like though, is the lack of a timestamp when hovering over ' ago.' Last one - there is no way (that I can see) to go from a profile page (should've noticed this before) to the comment in context. Clicking on the comment should be a link to /dnfeiwn/?context=3. ~~You shouldn't have to go to user/overview.~~ Edit: I realised you can click on 'Comments' up top but what I wrote still applies. /u/scruggsnotdrugz Thanks again to both of you.

KJK-reddit Mar 15, 2018 +8

Why do comments in like a mini window view instead of as a link? I really enjoyed being able to open comments in a new tab by default.

likeafox Mar 15, 2018 +6

The idea is that if you open a thread on the home feed, you can read it and click out of the pop-up to return to your place in the feed without losing your place. This is necessary because infinite scroll doesn't make it easy to return to your last position with the back button. Middle clicking to open a new tab will open the thread in non pop-up view.

Algernon_Asimov Mar 15, 2018 +6

> We added all moderators last week So, after giving moderators only one week to try out the redesign, you're suddenly bringing in an influx of new users and expecting mods to get their sublistnooks up to scratch in a brand-new system that *you admit* is lacking features and usability. That's how to get the mods on-side!

-eDgAR- Mar 15, 2018 +409

One question I have about the redesign is that I know you guys were talking about getting rid of messages as they are now and focusing on people using the chat feature. Are you still planning on this? I have a message thread going on with a friend almost 4 years and I would hate to lose all our conversations because of this.

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Amg137 Mar 15, 2018 +256

We currently don’t have plans to deprecate the PM system. There’s a lot of systems and processes that are tied into the PM system and rely on it today. Chat for communities is our focus now since we learned from the beta that that is what people are most excited about. Until that foundation is solid and if it still makes sense, that team will explore what that means for PMs, how to archive old PMs, and things of that nature. But like i said, no plans yet.

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[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +57

what about the obnoxious layout on the mobile web? When is that going away? first is the popup I get every single time I go to open new incognito tab(so hamburger menu does nothing) then ad directly after the first nonpinned post then another halfway through the page then click on post and greeting with another popup and u/spez said that a redesign would fix this 2 months ago yet people have been complaining for at least 10 months now on the sublistnook you made for us and people said they even had to use the desktop layout because the mobile layout is that bad, so when is it coming?

-eDgAR- Mar 15, 2018 +92

Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it, I'm glad to hear you aren't completely throwing it out for sure. One other thing, [I mentioned to another admin](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/84nyj6/a_shortish_history_of_new_features_on_listnook/dvr0n4q) how you should probably call it the Listnook Museum and not the Museum of Listnook becauae it's confusing since we already have /r/MuseumOfListnook

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +13

And we all know the type of debauchery that gets posted to /r/MuseumOfListnook.

dothosenipscomeoff Mar 15, 2018 +26

I, and many others use an ad blocker for the sole reason of getting rid of chat. I otherwise wouldn't block ads on listnook but I have no choice if I want to hide chat. I know you know that's not helping anybody

cahaseler Mar 15, 2018 +74

I hope you're not expecting existing community moderators to also moderate a chat with 17 million people in it.

automated_reckoning Mar 15, 2018 +161

For the love of god, _let me turn off this f****** chat monstrosity._ I don't want it, I didn't ask for it. Get it the f*** out. /u/Amg137, do you know what my first message in that bit of bullshit was? Delicious spam.

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palordrolap Mar 15, 2018 +55

An off switch, or a *don't load at all* switch for chat would be nice. Quite a few people have noticed that the chat script loaded by Listnook by default seems to chew up a lot of CPU for apparently no reason. The touted solution at the moment is to add a rule to your browser's ad-blocker, and that's not going to go down well with Listnook investors, especially since some of us prefer to allow ads on Listnook, and this means we can't right now. That said, I've found that another solution is to block some or all of Listnook's related domains with a script blocker, but that occasionally causes the interface to act strange, posting comments becomes near impossible, and it still causes ads to be blocked. In fact, I don't see why they don't take a leaf out of Facebook's, ... er, book, and roll PMs and chat into some sort of combined system. Either way chat's pretty monstrous (choose your own interpretation of that word), might as well go the whole hog.

automated_reckoning Mar 15, 2018 +12

You better belive that when I have a few free minutes I'm gonna black-hole this nonsense.

smeggysmeg Mar 15, 2018 +84

I recently started to receive spam over chat. "I saw your comment in /r/philosophy and think I have something you might like to look at." Conveniently, there's no report spam button. I can deny this specific spammer, but that won't stop the next dozen. Between chat, profile/feed-like userpages, images everywhere, and a cookie cutter redesign with limited customization, Listnook seems to be emulating Facebook. Listnook, I left Facebook, and I'll leave you if the substance of the platform degrades.

Hipolipolopigus Mar 15, 2018 +26

For anyone using a blocker compatible with ABP-syntax filters ||listnookstatic.com/_chat*.js$script,domain=listnook.com ||listnookstatic.com/desktop2x/Chat*.js$script,domain=listnook.com ||listnook.com/chat/minimize$inline-script,domain=listnook.com listnook.com###chat listnook.com###chat+.separator The first three block the scripts, the last two hide the header button and remove the space left behind. We shouldn't need this, but we do.

sageDieu Mar 15, 2018 +54

Please, let me turn it off. I don't care about it and never enabled it, it's just an avenue for spam that takes up space in my window. And the new profiles. This isn't Facebook.

shabutaru118 Mar 15, 2018 +25

> And the new profiles. This isn't Facebook. Yesss, please let me disable them.

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +11

RES has this option, actually. In the RES settings console, go to Users and then Profile Redirect. Select "Overview (legacy)" and all profiles you visit will be the classic way.

danhakimi Mar 15, 2018 +12

>Chat for communities is our focus now since we learned from the beta that that is what people are most excited about. I honestly just do not believe that. Chat is a strange box that has popped up form e a bunch of times, takes up space in my UI for no reason, and was only ever used to spam me, and only once at that. I've heard a lot of other users complain about Chat as well, and never seen any upside, except maybe for moderators. And for moderators \-\- whatever, make it an opt in UI for the existing messaging system, done. But don't litter my UI with a feature I would rather wasn't anywhere near me.

JordanLeDoux Mar 15, 2018 +59

> since we learned from the beta that that is what people are most excited about Where the f*** are these people?

ShitInMyCunt-2dollar Mar 16, 2018 +7

Why did I have to resort to custom filters to stop this stupid chat c*** from constantly showing an orange icon - right next to the message icon? You *had* to have done this on purpose. Why is there no simple option to not see this chat business? If I wanted chat, I'd be using twitter/facebook/whatever. Chat is the absolute last thing I want to see on listnook. Why deliberately annoy people?

Calm_Memories Mar 15, 2018 +23

PMs might be on their way out the door? That would be a dealbreaker for me personally and I'd love to know if chats are meant to eventually replace PMs. I don't like to use the chat feature personally but I didn't consider it might replaces private messages.

-eDgAR- Mar 15, 2018 +34

Yup, [they said before](https://www.listnook.com/r/beta/comments/72tyo5/today_were_testing_our_chat_beta/dnl9jno) that they eventually wanted to get rid of messages, which I think is a terrible idea.

Calm_Memories Mar 15, 2018 +9

That is really concerning. On one hand, I'm glad you tipped me off. Thank you. On the other hand, this uncertainty really sucks and I don't see why PMs and Chat have to compete against one another. Like another user said in that thread, I too have visual issues and PMs are easier to read and see. The chat system is very new but I do a lot of writing with users (like 500+ word stories with people pretty frequently) and a chat system would be pretty messy and harder to sort through. I can get used to the terrible user profile but the chat system is very different and I hate using it just like I hate Facebook's. What is listnook even thinking???

honestbleeps Mar 15, 2018 +520

I'm truly excited to see what's next, and I'm filled to the brim with empathy for the hell that you'll reap no matter what it is you do. However, I still am convinced that while you'll compare this to "comments will ruin listnook", the new design's very intentional attempt to force the user to read comments before reading an article/link will worsen listnook's discourse. Forcing the user to click a wholly non-intuitive, smaller target link to actually read the article - and having the main title bring up a modal with the comments - is certainly designed around Listnook's needs, probably driven by a board member: time spent on listnook... but it's only going to make the "people commenting without reading the article" ratio even worse than it already is. I sincerely fear that that will have bigger affects than it seems listnook believes it will.

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kraetos Mar 15, 2018 +36

> but it's only going to make the "people commenting without reading the article" ratio even worse than it already is. They don't care about that. The redesign has very clearly been optimized for users who consume lots of simple content quickly. That is, users who click ads. Users who's browsing behavior is valuable to advertisers. This won't kill Listnook but it will alienate a big portion of their older userbase. It's not a bug. It's a feature.

hansjens47 Mar 15, 2018 +22

Due to the regular overreaction of users who're vocal about any change, I think it's easy to over-correct and ignore the feedback when changes are actually serious and will lead to predictably poor results. I think the redesign has many almost deal-breaking issues with it that should lead the team to take a step back, make changes rather than just listening to feedback then ignoring it, and get things right. You only get to ship the new feature once. Other social media sites have learned that the hard way when they've tried walking gigantic corporate-driven changes back, only to find that the users have already left.

Amg137 Mar 15, 2018 +89

Definitely hear your concern here, and we’ve been getting feedback from the redesign community on the link behavior and have iterated based on that. To give some insight in our approach: Current Listnook is unpredictable in terms of Title-Click behavior, and while an experienced Listnookor knows what post type does what, through our user research sessions over the past year, we found that for any new user, this is an non-optimal experience. We opted to consolidate all title clicks to lead to one location. In most of our post types, it leads to conversation. Over time and a lot of feedback from the redesign community, we made link click behavior more prominent in terms of indication of clickable thumbnail and outbound source after the title. Overall, we think this approach best sets our users up for success in terms of not having to think about what goes where, and understand that the change in functionality can be frustrating. For the feedback of “I sincerely fear that that will have bigger affects than it seems listnook believes it will.” We’re here to listen and iterate where it makes sense, let’s definitely start a dialog on how we can best work together to alleviate this issue.

hansjens47 Mar 15, 2018 +131

The issue, as with most design, is of affordances. I'm sure the entire design team knows this, but for others who aren't as deep into the subject, here's a short overview. --- The properties of the objects need to lead users to use them correctly. A door you need to pull should have a handle that leads to you pull it. An automatically sliding door shouldn't have one. When we navigate the web and click on something, we expect to arrive at that something. That's the most basic affordance of hyperlinking and it isn't something listnook can change unless they find a better solution to the same inherent design-problem across the web. It's less clear cut with pictures: on some sites clicking on a clickable picture leads the picture to be enlarged, on other sites it leads to the image file or something else. --- The basic, most common affordance of hyperlinking online, whenever you scroll through some feed, or are on some landing page, clicking on the title of a submission, you expect to come to that submission. So inherently, marking the different use case, the text-post that exists on listnook and should lead to a comment page, should clearly and obviously be distinguished from off-site links. That means that self-post elements should be designed differently to link-posts so we intuitively realize they're different and should expect different results by clicking on them. Alternatively, you get rid of link posts altogether (as in the redesign where you always land on the comments). If that's the goal, listnook has changed form its outset as a content aggregate. Can listnook compete as a different type of platform entirely?

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likeafox Mar 15, 2018 +18

Oh hello best friend :) It's worth pointing out that the latest alpha iteration did make the external URL more obvious buy exposing more of the URL slug, and coloring it in that familiar blue hyperlink color. Personally, I agree with others who suggest that any attempt to de-emphasize external URL's will negatively impact click through and hence decreases the number of people who read the content. But I think you and I both know that they are not turning back from the current design where submission titles will open the thread. Though they've already tried to compromise with the new exposed URL method, I think something similar to [/u/majorparadox's proposal](https://www.listnook.com/r/redesign/comments/81baxs/mockup_for_moving_new_url_links_under_the_title/) might be in order. A key disadvantage being - it requires an additional line, and thus takes up space and reduces information density. [Image link for those who can't read the post](https://i.listnookmedia.com/0VSgRy2aXo1digkNwy-knXBGaGmwb9iWD9YvTwANoEM.png?w=917&s=0bf1c06ec0ff35e30c09255ecaa4add4)

Great comment- Listnook’s original UI decisions kind of set this problem in stone, so I think you’re right that truly solving this issue would require a more significant design change. But I think you’re overstating the impact- to say that this is the moment when listnook will switch from content aggregator to a discussion community...doesn’t sit right with me. I think that happened steadily over time after comments were allowed, and they’re now just tweaking the setup to match how it’s been getting used.

EngineerBabe Mar 15, 2018 +40

I [commented on this kind of issue yesterday](https://www.listnook.com/r/redesign/comments/84g4nx/a_way_to_disable_the_popup_window_when_clicking/) on r/redesign. The amount of clickable space that opens the comments is crazy big. Clicking almost anywhere will open the comments of a post whether I want it to or not. Please, please, please, please, make it at least an option to limit the clickable space to the links only and not the giant space around the post.

IsItPluggedInPro Mar 15, 2018 +17

> we found that for any new user, this is an non-optimal experience How is clicking one link for the *content* of the post and clicking on a different link for *comments* a non-optimal experience? The content of a self post is the post itself, and the content of a link post is the link target. Don't surprise the user. That behavior is *not* surprising. What *is* surprising is clicking on a link and seeing *comments* about the link's target/contents instead of the *actual* contents/target.

Magikarp_SlayerOfAll Mar 15, 2018 +20

I have seen a lot of comments on the redesign sublistnook about this, and I think that the designers actually might have done the right thing here. I distinctly remember having difficulty understanding the UI in my first days of listnook; I did expect clicking on the title to lead to comments. Let's be honest, as a new user, one doesn't initially notice the little comments button. I do, however, think it is a valid concern to lead users to the interpretation of the article by listnookors, who can often behave as a hive mind, but other times provide much more information than one would get from a clickbaity title. Both reading the comments and reading the article are important to getting a better understanding of articles, but it seems like a challenge to get users to do both.

That point about Title-Click behavior actually makes a lot of sense. Thanks for being more and more transparent about why you're making the decisions you're making. It makes me a lot more comfortable with everything going forward.

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +131

[removed]

Meepster23 Mar 15, 2018 +9

Oh please. I mean, new modmail has had so many features and fixes added since it was released... I can't possibly see how they can screw it up with the entire site /s

Rohit49plus2 Mar 15, 2018 +418

New redesign, yay! If I could gild all the listnook devs, I would.

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Amg137 Mar 15, 2018 +331

Thanks, we are a team of 50 that has been working on the redesign for the last year so we really appreciate it. Maybe all the Listnook devs should gild you!

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TheDarkFiddler Mar 15, 2018 +267

>team of 50 >gilded 53 times Nope, sorry, I don't buy it.

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[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +116

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_Serene_ Mar 15, 2018 +41

Is this one of the admins alt accounts? The redesign better be optional.

316nuts Mar 15, 2018 +170

"I don't like any of this" -most users after spending an exhausting 30 seconds reviewing anything new

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flounder19 Mar 15, 2018 +23

I get that people complain after any change but this idea that all negative feedback comes from butthurt users who haven't given the redesign a chance is ridiculous. Personally there are some things that I like about the redesign. Having access to all of the sublistnooks you subscribe to in a sidebar even if navigating it isn't perfect is nice. As a mod, I like that I can finally drag userflairs to reorder them as well. But personally I haven't seen anything in the redesign that made me want to use it permanently. I still rely on various plug-ins to bypass listnook's new profile design. I don't get why they moved so many options into dropdowns only to free up room for whitespace. I'm annoyed about how many packed the new sidebar is with ads. I don't like how the top 'widget' on the sidebar has to be the sublistnook info either. And i sure as shit hate the fact that ads are embeded within a sublistnook's posts to trick users into engaging with them.

BettyWapppp Mar 15, 2018 +35

Everyone is excited but what if it's too different.

CR_SaltySald123 Mar 15, 2018 +52

I think that these redesigns are great, but need to be controlled. Looks like you guys have it good for now.

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +42

Holy f****** rich text editor Batman! Finally! I hate markdown. Can't wait until it's rolled out to everyone, but if that's a beta feature now then I might actually sign up for beta!

tickettoride98 Mar 15, 2018 +12

> Holy f****** rich text editor Batman! Finally! I hate markdown. I'm curious what your use case is that makes you love rich text editing over markdown? What do you plan on using the rich text editing to do with your comments? Looking at your post history each comment is mostly a few sentences, so I'm curious what gets you so excited about rich text editing.

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +4

I have another account that I use for writingprompts and transferring a story from Word to here is the biggest goddamn headache I’ve ever seen. Getting a story formatted properly so it doesn’t look like ass to the reader is a big hassle, and not what I want to spend 30 minutes doing every time I post a story. I just want to copy paste and go. And rich text will make that easier. Edit: but even without that as a factor, I still don’t like markdown. Why should I have to press enter twice to make a new line? Why can’t listnook just format comments exactly the way they appear when typed into the text box? It’s such a hassle.

JustAnotherSuit96 Mar 15, 2018 +222

I spent a few hours attempting to work with the redesign, and get atleast some resemblance of what I've got set up on one my sublistnook's over the weekend. It didn't go well at all. [This is what we have setup currently](https://i.imgur.com/xOdFQBy.jpg) over at /r/NieR * We have a basic animated banner. * Posts are stylised, and have a number count against them. * Thumbnails change depending on the post type (NSFW, Spoliers, Discussions, Announcements). * Submission buttons overlapping the sidebar image. * Custom userflairs with popup text upon mouseover. None of this is at all achievable with your redesign, and furthermore what you can change is heavily restricted: * Banner image heights are limited to 3 sizes, with very little control over their placement. * All colours are purely static, no gradient support at all. * The new userflairs are a huge step backwards in what you can do with them. The whole thing quite frankly sucks in its current implementation, the only redeeming feature from this entire thing is the new configurable post requirements section. **Breaking down a standard submission:** [Here's an image](https://i.imgur.com/c53kfWT.png) -1. As mentioned above, our thumbnails are different depending on post type, you can currently only assign one "default" thumbnail in the redesign, there's no ability to configure these for spoilers/nsfw etc. There's no ability to set the size of the thumbnails either, they're something like 40x60, so no nice uniform square thumbnails. -2. There doesn't seem to be a way to align submission flairs to the left hand side, with the redesign they're always on the right, not to mention you cannot style them. -3. This is the overall background image of the post, you can currently change this in the redesign but then it'd clash with item 4 which is a second background decor image placed in the corner, the redesign only allows you to set one BG image, and very little control is given as to how you'd like to use it. -5. Much like post flairs, there's really no customisability in the redesign for userflairs. -6. No ability to even show post rankings, let alone style them. There's a load of other things i'd like to go into such as the inability to use a different font, change text colour, and so on but there's really no point. Just compare, what i consider to be a much better styled sublistnook than mine, /r/Overwatch to their redesign. [Imgur album comparison](https://imgur.com/a/X846B). The redesign is c***.

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montas Mar 15, 2018 +32

This should really be higher. Subs like yours are jewels of listnook. It takes small genius to figure out how to customize css to achieve things like that. The only reason I see in unifying styling is the availability on all platforms, but I don't think it is worth it. You take away options from users to bring features to other platforms, features that are not needed on these other platforms. Sure more options for styling in apps would be nice, but I use a app that works for me, I don't need styles like these on mobile.

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +23

ACCount82 Mar 15, 2018 +20

I get that CSS lets sublistnook owners do scummy things like demand subscription or block downvotes. But each sublistnook being an unique page, with their own style, buttons etc, is what makes Listnook *Listnook*. Without that, it's just another social media platform.

IsItPluggedInPro Mar 15, 2018 +9

I totally agree about flairs! I hate them on the right. They are often used to allow users to quickly zoom in on posts of interest but they don't help do that if they're in on the right, non-aligned, past a bunch of text of variable length.

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +36

OneAndOnlyJackSchitt Mar 15, 2018 +16

With regard to inline images, are you planning on requiring those to be hosted on Listnook? If not, you run the risk of third-party analytics (people posting images which track who's looked at a post). Imagine if Facebook and imgur struck a deal. Any image hosted on imgur and hotlinked into a comment. Imgur puts a cookie on your computer. Facebook now knows you hang out at /r/ClopClop... If so, be mindful on a couple of things (which you're probably already aware of): Most (if not all) bitmap formats (jpg, png, etc) put the header at the beginning of the file. The file is read until the end of the data, not the end of the file. RAR archives put the header at the END of the file. If you take a JPG and use: copy /b 1.jpg + 2.rar combinedfile.jpg You'll end up with an file which displays a picture in the browser and can also be opened with 7zip. I'd suggest implementing both a size limitation and a file truncator (your server looks at the image's header and discards everything after the end of the image data. The other is if someone posts a picture or video taken with a phone (or a super expensive camera), the file may end up with embedded gps tags... which is exactly what those GoneWild girls would totally love.

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +72

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 -26

I'm early. Hi mom!

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[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +262

I would never suggest that Listnookors are less than angelic, but users will abuse inline images in every conceivable way. They'll fill comments with objectionable content such as gore, spoilers, p***, pictures of /u/spez, etc etc etc. What steps will you take to protect against this? Will mods have the power to toggle this function on and off?

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JetSet_Brunette Mar 15, 2018 +103

Thank you. I am entirely bewildered on why they are taking steps to be more like 4chan. There's no way SFW subs will be able to maintain their status without significant mod commitment, and it's unfair of the admins to outsource additional work like this just so they can claim to investors that the site is evolving or whatever. EDIT: Also, goodbye data plan, sheesh.

verdatum Mar 15, 2018 +22

They said that they will add inline images to text posts. They don't say that they're also adding inline images to comments (and exactly, they really really really shouldn't).

LanterneRougeOG Mar 16, 2018 +27

👋 just to clarify OPs post. We don't plan on adding inline images to comments. We also have concerns around burdening mods with more work. The new inline images are only for text posts in communities that also allow images and/or videos. If they are text post only, then listnookors can't add images to them.

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +107

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verdatum Mar 15, 2018 +7

I believe this is only for text-posts. Not for the comments. You know how currently, you can post links or post text, but not do both? This allows you to do that for images. Adding inline images to comments would be *horrible*

SquareWheel Mar 15, 2018 +164

Can inline images be hidden in user settings? I don't mean to poop on the direction you're taking the site, but that's the last possible thing I want to see. I already abhor all the lazy "reaction gif" style comments, and this sounds like it will encourage far more.

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Noctis_Lightning Mar 15, 2018 +42

Could you imagine the headache it would bring for the mods/users? Sub's like r/aww get attacked with disturbing images and the mods have to go through that to keep it clean. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to prevent malicious users with inline images at play.

flume Mar 15, 2018 +26

Not to mention the data usage, the page load times, and any risk of browsing at work/around kids.

Bamboozle_ Mar 15, 2018 +49

Are you ever going to address the unacceptably poor performance of the redesign? Threads about it over at /r/redesign have just been consistently ignored by the admins. The merits of design choices can argued about until we are all blue in the face, but a website that performs as poorly as the redesign does is just utterly ridiculous and is going to drive any potential new users $not to mention current users$ away.

demize95 Mar 15, 2018 +18

My big issue, the whole "oh you left clicked on something, well, let's go ahead and open it in a new tab, obviously that's what left click means" thing hasn't been addressed *once* by the admins. No "we're working on a setting", no "we just don't think changing that behavior is what we want", no "thanks for the feedback". Nothing.

mxzf Mar 15, 2018 +9

Even just the chat "feature" was using ~12% CPU (on an 8-core machine) almost permanently and was adding another 2-3 seconds to every single page load until I blocked it with adblock. I shudder to think what an entire site designed the same way will do to my browser.

sellyme Mar 15, 2018 +15

Unlike the new profile feature, the new design doesn't look abjectly horrible, and I can actually see the content I'm looking for instead of 95% of my screen being useless whitespace. This is good! What *isn't* good is the performance. /r/all takes me under a second to display (not load) right now. When I swapped to the beta and refreshed /r/all, my browser completely froze for about thirty seconds before the page actually rendered. **This is not a network issue**, the page took roughly the same time to actually download on either display setting, but there's some serious optimisation issues going on there. It seems like the page was designed and tested solely on fairly powerful machines without even considering the average use case. **This makes Listnook genuinely unusable.** **EDIT:** Some performance metrics, gauged by scrolling around a content at a reading speed with mouse scrollwheel, then using middle mouse+drag to scroll to the top of content very quickly, then clicking on a link to a sublistnook and waiting for it to load. [Current design](https://i.imgur.com/Gt3W1Py.png) - ~30FPS average. [New design](https://i.imgur.com/XZ5yuru.png) - ~6FPS average.

Rakajj Mar 15, 2018 +78

Promise me that you'll never pull support for the legacy profile and I won't complain about how much I dislike the new layout and design. For now a browser extension redirecting to legacy has made the site still usable but after 8 years of daily use I'll leave Listnook and never look back if the new style profiles become the only option.

koukimonster91 Mar 15, 2018 +22

The worst part about it is all the dead space on the sides. its 2018, everyone has wide screen monitors.

Rakajj Mar 15, 2018 +25

I struggle to say anything nice about it. There's nothing about the redesign I prefer over the old style. It's a Microsoft-style redesign where everything gets moved and nothing is better.

[deleted] Mar 16, 2018 +4

I definitely think the redesigned layout is a downgrade from the current layout. Yes, the current design is "weird" for a website, as OP states and I agree but the new one isn't any better when it comes to it either. I know some people will roll their eyes when I say it but I'll try to expand on it: it's lifeless. The current design is clean but, in a minimalist way, is also colorful and warm. The new one is just corporate, monochrome and lifeless. It's like looking at a cold ad list, not a thriving community. Thankfully, this should be as easy to fix as adding themes that users should be able to pick from (like today's light and dark modes). I hope they are not too focused on giving mods the tools to make their subs pretty that they'll forget about letting users also control their own experience. I, for example, disable custom styles for subs because I'd rather have one consistent good layout than different ones ranging from awesome to terribly amateur. The new default layout for the redesigned desktop is one I would immediately disable, if only. The rest of the features sound fine but the new layout will make browsing listnook a huge drag.

Oryx Mar 15, 2018 +21

Totally agree. **Just allow users to view listnook as it is right now as an option and everybody is happy.** Force images and other unneeded features on me and I'm done. Don't do a DIGG on us.

Nottabird_Nottaplane Mar 15, 2018 +11

On Listnook, people like to tell jokes by hiding images in text, like [this.](https://i.imgur.com/0nZ3Xv5.png) People also use the sentence within which the image is contained to provide context to the image itself. I feel that in-line images are a net good, but preserving this small bit of listnook culture/vehicle of humor would be nice. I'm not sure how it'd be done but is in-line display of images a default setting? What about for particularly large images such as can be found in wallpaper or sublistnooks dedicated to photography? Are there size limits to what can be uploaded/displayed?

NAN001 Mar 15, 2018 +30

It looks like you guys are covering your asses from bad reactions to come against the new redesign by showing a pattern of virulent reactions to past features that eventually were successful. I would just like to say that by that logic you could do anything and argue that it would be successful eventually no matter feedback, which is obviously incorrect. Most of the features listed here are fundamentally new features like comments and sublistnooks. Many new features like redesign and users' profile are just little adjustments, which add little functionality, which are obviously built to attract new users, but which can just be a pain to users tied to their habits.

Reiker0 Mar 15, 2018 +67

Here's my feedback: You guys have already proven that you're bad at this. The new profile layout, for example, is awful. You took a simplistic design that worked well and matched the rest of the website, and then made it foreign, visually confusing, and overall terrible to look at. You didn't even give users an option to disable it. I find it interesting that Listnook continues to make the same types of mistakes that Digg did, while at the same time bragging about how they "defeated" Digg. Hubris, etc. Listnook's on a swift course to adding a third website to that Google search graph. And what about the popular features that you guys love to inexplicably remove, like individual comment scores? Is that in the hidden, "dark history" section of this particular museum?

Mattallica Mar 15, 2018 +19

>You didn't even give users an option to disable it. There’s an option in [preferences](https://www.listnook.com/prefs/) to default all profiles to the legacy overview.

Reiker0 Mar 15, 2018 +13

Huh, is that new? I swear I looked for that when they rolled out the profile redesign. I was wrong about that one then, good catch. Edit: Tested out the redesign and it was pretty much exactly what I was expecting: cramped, claustrophobic, and requiring extra clicks to get to certain places. The same sort of "form over function" makeover that every website on the internet gets when they hit their midlife crisis. As long as the redesign can be disabled I can't really complain, but man that's not a great impression for a first time visitor to the site.

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +139

139

Neckbeardacus Mar 15, 2018 +10

A lot of the best contributors left or carved out niche sublistnooks years ago. The rest is all repost-bots whoring karma so they can sell the account to marketers. Or it's braindead morons posting mindless comments to escape from their boring lectures. The few decent contributors left are going to evaporate after this. Best part is that the viewership will probably continue to grow for awhile; the remaining idiots and the admins will continue to harp on it. "Look, people said this would kill us like they always do and we survived!". And then after a few years, the wave recedes and they want to know "what went wrong and where is everyone going?", and the answer will be "you spent a decade hiring the dumbest possible admin team and eventually they tried to make the website more marketable".

Kosko Mar 15, 2018 +58

The inline ad postings every 5 links is brutal.

networking_noob Mar 15, 2018 +40

IMO more ad integration is the #1 reason for the new redesign. Spez and others can do their PR speak about "improving the user experience" all day long, but it's pretty transparent what their motivation is. Listnook is a business so it's understandable, but jeez. Just be more honest about it.

f_k_a_g_n Mar 15, 2018 +19

Ohh I just enabled the redesign layout. Looks sharp so far. Although, I use Desktop at 150% zoom; there's a lot of whitespace zoomed out. I found one really big issue (for me). I dislike that clicking on a thread basically opens a big modal, and clicking on the edge closes the thread. That's something USAtoday.com does and I hate it. Click the wrong spot and you closed the article. If I was using 100% zoom instead of 150% it looks even worse. I'd like the post to fill the whole page. Edit: `rising` is missing from the sort dropdown on r/all and the sort menu wouldn't open on r/politics the first 4-5 times I clicked it. Edit 2: If I'm browsing r/politics and I click a thread, do I really need to see another copy of the sidebar displayed in this open modal? I feel like that's taking even more space away from the thread. Edit 3: I think comment chains could use more distinction. I'm finding it hard to tell if a comment is a top-level comment or not. *** Anyways, I appreciate announcement posts like this. Thanks for sharing what's going on behind the scenes.

IssaLlama Mar 15, 2018 +137

Can you make it so people can only send messages if their account is a couple days old. Someone was making dozens of accounts to send vulgar photos and r*** threats to a lot of women. Also, blocking via mobile would be nice

137

Lincolns_Hat Mar 15, 2018 +111

This is a serious issue that actually affects the site and user interaction, so u/spez, the admins, and developers will ignore it.

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seezed Mar 15, 2018 +37

That is not even funny how true that is... I'm impressed at how well they tip toe around some of the serious issues of their site, but oh well.

youarebritish Mar 15, 2018 +25

Seconding this. I have on several occasions received death threats from brand new accounts, presumably ones created just to do that so that their main account doesn't get busted.

IssaLlama Mar 15, 2018 +29

An acct called datsoiboi was reported by at least a dozen women and nothing was done

dolphinesque Mar 15, 2018 +25

As a woman on Listnook, you just have to get used to the misogyny and r*** threats. Admins literally do nothing. If there were a sublistnook called "RapeWomen" where people could post their r*** threats to female listnook users and it made a dollar for Listnook, they'd promote it and say "Banning them probably won't accomplish what you want. However, letting them fall apart from their own dysfunction probably will. Their engagement is shrinking over time, and that's much more powerful than shutting them down outright." I moderate a sublistnook and I have been giving a lot of thought to stepping down because of the administration here. Maybe that's what I have to do.

IssaLlama Mar 15, 2018 +12

Yep. Im seriously just going to start doxxing these guys and giving them some real life consequenses if listnook won't do anything

DoctorBagPhD Mar 15, 2018 +13

Been on Listnook a lot longer than this account's age (changed usernames more than once) and honestly most of the changes have been great, I even like how you've handled advertising for the most part, but I can't stress enough how dire the new user pages are. Please for the love of god scrap that jumbled mess.

Mackullhannun Mar 15, 2018 +16

TL;DR You might not like this update, and there might be a lot of backlash, but we think it's a good implementation anyway because what we really think you don't like is change. Not that I really blame them for feeling the need to put this out there, good updates often are met with a lot of backlash because users just aren't used to it yet, but I don't think it's the best mentality to have going into launching a major update. Listnook is pretty good as is, if people don't like change, and there is no need to implement a change, then you probably shouldn't implement that change. It's rare for a developer to implement a change people didn't know that they wanted, it's usually best to just stick to changes people have been asking for already which I haven't seen much of on listnook, so I'm definitely iffy on this. Guess we'll see.

Pluto414 Mar 15, 2018 +38

Can you make it so if the only comments on something are from bots, it shows that in some way before clicking. It would be nice to avoid seeing 1 comment on something, and then clicking it and it’s just a bot

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +69

Why did you guys ban r/sanctionedsuicide ? That sub had some great introspective posts, it was refreshing to see another persons view on life and contemplate it. Not kidding some of my favourite posts were from that sub. It was also a great place for suicidal people to talk about their issues and relate to people in their situation. Is it Listnook policy to ban subs associated with "undesirables", the ban of the sub seems very reactionary.

fhrsk Mar 16, 2018 +18

Can't even begin to describe how much I was upset with the ban. That was the only place I felt free to express myself. This is f****** ridiculous, they're just letting people feel even more desperate by losing their only safe place. Nobody **encouraged** suicide. They just believed in our right to choose and respected our feelings instead of repeating the same bullshit about "everything will be alright eventually". Listnook is just doing more harm to already desperate people. F*** them.

troop98 Mar 16, 2018 +13

Creator of r/truesanctionedsuicide before it shut down. I'm not entirely sure why either subs were taken down, especially when far worse sublistnooks exist in terms of the content they have. If listnook has taken us down, it is only fair they should target other sublistnooks like r/shoplifting too, since that content is completely illegal. The issue to me is the reason for banning us seems 2d, we don't fully know. And not only that, why wouldn't they warn us and ask us to change our content?

stuntaneous Mar 15, 2018 +35

What the f***? This is the first sub ban I really take objection to. 'Sanctioned suicide' is a legitimate, civil topic of discussion and ties in heavily to the philosophy-backed anti-natalism movement and the euthanasia debate. This is outrageous.

foreverwasted Mar 16, 2018 +11

I totally agree. This is absolutely bullshit. When someone said r/The_Donald should be banned I was thinking how terrible it would be if freedom of speech was taken from Listnook, even though that sub is basically a white supremacy sub that stands for everything I hate. I wouldn't want the sub taken away. They can keep a white supremacy sub going but not a sub that provides comfort for suicidal people; *"Oh no you're bumming out the general population, cheer up life ain't that bad"* ignorant little shits.

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +33

FreeSpeechWarrior Mar 15, 2018 +47

Listnook would prefer for you to discuss wholesome activities that don't hurt anyone. Like r/shoplifting

ftwin Mar 15, 2018 +51

I prefer listnook to look as clean and boring as possible so I can continue browsing at work without it raising any red flags from people walking by my desk. That calbin n hobbs sub has me concerned.

Zaorish9 Mar 15, 2018 +227

Ctrl-F: search 0 results Why do you continunously ignore the #1 requested feature and the #1 requested moderation?

227

Osiris32 Mar 15, 2018 +52

This. The search feature has been bad since I joined seven years ago. That's seven years of people saying "hey admins, fix this." Why hasn't this been a priority?

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +18

Search has been bad since I had my first account in mid-2006. At this point it's basically an in-joke that search is borderline useless.

svnpenn Mar 15, 2018 +6

actually - it looks like the bugs i reported here have been fixed: r/bugs/comments/7lt0u6/site_and_url_operators_are_broken but i think still not way to do timestamp search with current UI

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +322

> include inline images within text posts! What could possibly go wrong!

322

tickettoride98 Mar 15, 2018 +235

In addition, what could go right? About all I can think of is bringing memes directly into the comments, which, let's be honest, will turn this place into a shit show real quick. I don't know why tech companies have to keep re-learning this *every. single. time*. Simplicity wins. Google's clean simple design was one of its major selling points. Facebook's clean structured design was one of its selling points as MySpace devolved into flashing backgrounds, auto-playing music, and GIFs. [Chrome is trying to kill auto-play videos with sound](https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2017/09/autoplay-policy-changes). Giving random Internet users the ability to turn your site into a visual clusterfuck is a terrible idea. Imagine how much worse the r/T_D spam would have been if they could have put pictures in random comments? You're feeding the ADD trolls for what benefit?

235

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +38

My sense of the OP is that the inline images would be for text posts such as the OP. Still I think it's a bad idea since it means at a minimum this new feature means self posts are going to get a lot more annoying. Not to mention when I click a text post it's because I only want _text_. When I'm on mobile your post has to be interesting as hell before I'll click on it just because I don't want to deal with a bunch of c*** on my screen. Even when I'm on desktop I try not to click if it looks like something I can find on my own from a non-annoying website.

LanterneRougeOG Mar 16, 2018 +40

I mentioned this in another comment thread, but to clarify OP's post... we don't plan on adding inline images to comments. We also have concerns around burdening mods with more work. The new inline images are only for text posts in communities that also allow images and/or videos. If they are text post only, then listnookors can't add images to them.

aslattery Mar 16, 2018 +11

Please consider adding a max height on the actual rendering. Not looking forward to posts with images that take ages to scroll through otherwise.

tickettoride98 Mar 16, 2018 +14

> The new inline images are only for text posts in communities that also allow images and/or videos. If they are text post only, then listnookors can't add images to them. Gotcha, that doesn't sound too bad. > we don't plan on adding inline images to comments. Thank you. Allowing them on comments would quickly turn awful.

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +73

I_SHAG_REDHEADS Mar 15, 2018 +19

I had a look at the beta profile stuff recently. What mainly irked me was the fact that the change is permanent. I couldn't take away the profile if it didn't work for me. That has an ominous undertone about the future of Listnook for me. I'm a simple consumer, so I don't understand coding etc but why is there no way to switch back? As has just been pointed out, we don't really need profiles, if I want to follow people who have creative outlets I will follow their sub or on a different platform of social media. Shit is just going a bit mainstream. I still love you Listnook but come on.

Zaorish9 Mar 15, 2018 +8

Yeah, if Listnook comes to suck, by trying to shape-shift itself into the "new facebook" (and it's 110% definitely looking that way), I'm just gonna drop it like I dropped facebook. People only ever liked Listnook because it was known as a website where intelligent discussions were had. The current management's repeated refusal to moderate aggressive troll sublistnooks proves that they do not care.

h0nest_Bender Mar 15, 2018 +19

> Listnook ~~is~~ was more about information sharing than social media. We're social media people, now. That's what the admins want.

PrimeLegionnaire Mar 15, 2018 +104

Your chat feature is absolute cancer. There are already communities dedicated to blocking it with adblockers. Please add a permanent op out to the chat feature.

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IssaLlama Mar 15, 2018 +53

Im getting sent vulgar photos and r*** threats. Dozens of women are reporting the same thing from the same guys. Nothings done about it.

dolphinesque Mar 15, 2018 +31

The ONLY thing that changes policy on Listnook is press. Now we need to draft a press release saying that Listnook's chat feature enables r*** threats. Then maybe - MAYBE something might be done. I just think the Listnook admins are sort of in on it at this point. IS there a single woman Admin or Director?

PrimeLegionnaire Mar 15, 2018 +16

in the meantime you can add these sources to your adblocker if you want to disable chat. https://www.listnook.com/r/beta/comments/7afqvc/how_do_i_disable_listnook_chat/dpc1eyu/ https://www.listnook.com/r/beta/comments/7afqvc/how_do_i_disable_listnook_chat/drv1lon/

TheShyPig Mar 15, 2018 +6

If you could just stop the pop ups when my cursor goes over a users name. If I want to know I will click and I normally don't want to know. And stop keeping the video in the screen and playing when I go to comments (I went to comments because I watched it, I don't want to see it again particularly as it slows EVERYTHING down) Listnook was really good as I was not made to re-view the videos and just go straight to looking at the comments. Now I spend most of my time just waiting for video to load, wondering why pop-up boxes are all over my screen blocking out the comments I want to read, etc

14_year_old_girl Mar 15, 2018 +69

v.redd.it is nothing to brag about. It's the worst video format used for posts on Listnook.

stuntaneous Mar 15, 2018 +13

The blurry mess it deems appropriate to deliver to my 93mbit connection truly is something special.

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +27

verdatum Mar 15, 2018 +10

The term "shadowban" refers to the admin site-wide ban. It is referred to as a shadowban because when it happens, you are not informed. To your perspective, you are perfectly able to comment and post, but no one else is able to see it. According to the last announcement where it was discussed, admins try to only use the operation for spambot accounts. If you post something and a moderator or automoderator bans you, you are given a message informing you that you are banned from that sublistnook. After that point, you can no longer comment or submit posts in that sublistnook, but you can still read and upvote/downvote. I *think* you are referring to a trick that some sublistnooks do, where they modify their automoderator script to detect submissions authored by a given user and quietly deletes that activity. I've heard this referred to as an automod-ban or a stealth-ban, but there's no "official" term for it, because it's just a manipulation of the scripting mechanism. I believe you are talking about that third type. I was not aware of many sublistnooks bothering to use this much anymore. All you need to do to detect if this has happened to you in a sub is to post a perfectly innocuous comment, and then sign out, refresh the page, and see if your comment is visible (it sometimes takes a moment). Whenever this third type of ban happens, it means that a moderator with permission to edit the automoderator script has taken the time to edit the script to add your username to the list. This is not an operation that can be performed by automoderator; as in, there's no (normal) way to instruct automoderator to start deleting everything you post from that moment on, just because it detected that you posted something against the rules. Now outside of the automod script, people can write more formalized bots that can be granted moderator priviliges. Those can then use the listnook API to issue a traditional sublistnook ban. At one point, people were writing scripts that would scan activity even on *other* sublistnooks, and ban you from a sublistnook that you've never even operated in. I'm opposed to this. And this was brought up repeatedly back when they were doing the community_dialogue effort. But as far as polarizing political sublistnooks, as long as a sublistnook's moderation team has the liberty to ban however they please, this is still going to be every bit as much of a problem as it currently is now. The only way to solve this is to use a *completely* different platform that involved a stronger mechanism for meta-moderation, such that moderators can be taken to task for issuing bans to users who are participating in civil discussion. Wikipedia, for example, has such a mechanism and it's explicitly defined. However, it's also *extremely* complicated. I personally brought this up in the community_dialogue, and they did take it into advisement, but it appears they have no interest in setting something up like this. It looks like those ultra-polarized safe-space sublistnooks aren't going anywhere any time soon.

otakuman Mar 15, 2018 +5

Speaking of museum, when are we getting searches for articles for date? I'd love to browse submissions that happened in a particular sub, in December last year, or for a particular date, for example. This way we can have archives dedicated to our favorite posts, and effectively turn Listnook into an internet history museum of sorts. Pretty please?

Slampumpthejam Mar 15, 2018 +35

Great, now I get to see stupid picture shitposts without even clicking on them. Title clicks going straight to the comments? This will really help with people spouting garbage without reading the content. /s

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +14

TotalyNotMyPornAcc Mar 15, 2018 +8

It does not work properly, plus you can't share it properly, you can't give someone a direct link to the video, you have to give them the comments URL.

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +28

Am I the only one who wants listnook to stay the same? I’ve been here a while and have always loved the design. Also, change and fluidity scare me.

rollingdownthestreet Mar 15, 2018 +9

Sounds like an around-about way of saying that while we don't like the redesign you know better and we'll eventually come around...

Algernon_Asimov Mar 15, 2018 +3

> (The first comment, fittingly, was about how comments are going to ruin Listnook.) > It’s hard to imagine Listnook without sublistnooks now, but as a new feature, it wasn’t without controversy. In fact, many users [...] argued passionately against sublistnooks. > That same year, the admins also launched our first desktop redesign, which received its share of good, bad, and constructive reviews. Oops! Your agenda is showing! "When we made these changes in the past, people complained, but we pushed through despite the objections and now you all like it." And now you're making another change... and people will complain... and you'll push through despite the objections...

IsItPluggedInPro Mar 15, 2018 +6

> In the site’s early days, u/spez and u/kn0thing played around with the design in PaintShopPro 5, did the first user tests by putting a laptop with Listnook on it in front of strangers at Starbucks, Um, what about [Aaron](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz)? I swear, I feel like he was the one that made all the smart usability decisions, like inventing Markdown with John Gruber.

WikiTextBot Mar 15, 2018 +6

**Aaron Swartz** Aaron Hillel Swartz (November 8, 1986 – January 11, 2013) was an American computer programmer, entrepreneur, writer, political organizer, and Internet hacktivist. He was involved in the development of the web feed format RSS and the Markdown publishing format, the organization Creative Commons, the website framework web.py, and the social news site Listnook, in which he became a partner after its merger with his company, Infogami. Swartz's work also focused on civic awareness and activism. He helped launch the Progressive Change Campaign Committee in 2009 to learn more about effective online activism. *** ^[ [^PM](https://www.listnook.com/message/compose?to=kittens_from_space) ^| [^Exclude ^me](https://listnook.com/message/compose?to=WikiTextBot&message=Excludeme&subject=Excludeme) ^| [^Exclude ^from ^sublistnook](https://np.listnook.com/r/announcements/about/banned) ^| [^FAQ ^/ ^Information](https://np.listnook.com/r/WikiTextBot/wiki/index) ^| [^Source](https://github.com/kittenswolf/WikiTextBot) ^| [^Donate](https://www.listnook.com/r/WikiTextBot/wiki/donate) ^] ^Downvote ^to ^remove ^| ^v0.28

[deleted] Mar 15, 2018 +6

I noticed a new chat button at the top right, that is constantly reading red and (1) whether there is a new chat message or not, and the few times there is a chat message, it is always the exact same "check out my youtube channel" spam message. Great job, listnook!

AssuredlyAThrowAway Mar 15, 2018 +15

Not a fan of change, so I'll just go down memory lane- First ten submissions to listnook (which was formed as a merger between infogami and other companies under not a bug inc)- https://archive.is/eBNaf kn0thing: The Downing Street Memo- https://www.listnook.com/r/listnook.com/comments/87/the_downing_street_memo/ spez: Marketers Scan Blogs For Brand Insights-https://redd.it/87 kn0thing: Why Nerds are Unpopular- https://redd.it/88 kn0thing: Mac Rumors: First Developer Intel Macs (Photos)- https://redd.it/90 chickenlittle: Wired News: Beware the Google Threat- https://redd.it/91 agentOrange: Rumsfeld Will Not Set Timetable for Iraq Withdrawal- https://redd.it/92 [deleted]: New Scientist SPACE - Breaking News - Failure of solar sail mission virtually certain- https://redd.it/93 Col. Klobb: New Scientist News - Do games prime brain for violence? - https://redd.it/94 MaDMaX2: CNN.com - U.N. experts blast U.S. on Guantanamo Bay - Jun 23, 2005- https://redd.it/95 kn0thing: piracy seen as normal- https://redd.it/96 Credit /u/RunDNA

A short-ish history of new features on Listnook

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