So the accusation here is that adults who were part of a ragtag group of activists had consensual sex on a boat in the Mediterranean...?
4613
kfergthegreat2 days ago
+1150
The group bringing the claim is against the flotilla completly. They dont believe aid is what is needed but stronger political pressure. The sex thing is just a small part of a larger grievance.
1150
[deleted]2 days ago
+29
[removed]
29
InformationActual2092 days ago
+38
No that you can’t deliver food without more political pressure otherwise the food just gets taken
38
[deleted]2 days ago
+1112
[removed]
1112
CT_Phipps-Author2 days ago
+1290
Yeah, it's actually a much more (I hate to say it this way) interesting take.
"We're having a genocide, can you please not have fun during this."
1290
Frierguy2 days ago
+255
One could also argue, "you're experiencing a genocide, why are you concerning yourself with what a man is doing with his c***?"
255
WarlockEngineer2 days ago
+374
That would be a pretty weak argument though.
If this aid flotilla is just an excuse to party at sea, it's performative activism which discredits the real and dangerous work that many others do to support Palestine. And may lead to reduced donations as well for groups that actually need them.
I don't know what the norms are here. But if a Palestinian org is voicing their discomfort, I think that has some merit, regardless of our online arguments for or against it.
374
someones_dad2 days ago
+59
Most activism is performative by its very nature.
59
MacAttacknChz2 days ago
+58
I always thought this was a silly argument. Like, do you want eyes on your issue or not?
58
__mud__2 days ago
+126
Of course it was performative activism. Israel was dropping bombs on legitimate aid organizations, so what was the flotilla going to do other than draw attention for getting turned away?
126
JoeyDJ72 days ago
+60
Yeah indeed, I fully support the flotilla but it's primary purpose is absolutely to draw attention to how the Israelis treat them, when all they're doing is trying to deliver a few tons of aid.
Note that this certainly wasn't a fun getaway, they were detained for a while and degraded by Israeli authorities during their detainment.
60
Cicero9122 days ago
+9
And also, they are on a boat.
There's only so much you can do on a boat between departure and arrival.
9
deepasleep2 days ago
+8
Let’s be real for a moment. Probably 30%-40% of an activism is performative…It’s just like any other gathering of people, there are always going to be hypocrites and assholes.
8
Which-Insurance-22742 days ago
+104
It's quite a take to say that engaging in consensual sex is "partying". Having sex is not partying and just a normal human activity. It sounds more like puritanical thinking and the assumption that sex is inherently wrong or impure. This is a complete non-story unless it comes out that the sexual activity was somehow non-consentual or coerced.
104
LangyMD2 days ago
+63
If you look at the actual statement in question, it was about more than just sex. It was about the entire "party" atmosphere.
63
FUCKBOY_JIHAD2 days ago
+12
wait til these people hear about the Navy
12
LordSadoth2 days ago
+80
I mean, the word “concerts” was also mentioned, you can’t just ignore that
80
IEC212 days ago
+69
I'm not really even a huge pro-Palestine person - But if you take this position does that then mean you are obligated to think that other initiatives like comic relief, live aid for ethiopia, or other aids related fundraising concerts or shows are somehow in bad taste or unacceptable?
It seems to me like there's an argument that concerts/parties/etc are just an effective strategy for fundraising or charity - people are more likely to want to take part in a fun event than to want to spend days in doom and gloom - with tough subjects like famine, illness, or war - sometimes a little bit of levity helps get people to engage because the truth is that most people dont want to spend a lot of time thinking about horrible depressing subjects if they have a choice.
69
Transarchangelist2 days ago
+41
As a hugely pro-Palestine person, I agree with you whole heartedly. While throwing wacky parties on an aid flotilla would be tacky at best, and I’m not saying this is what happened, arguing that only dead serious aid programs are legitimate is counter productive.
41
PopularEquivalent6512 days ago
+5
Look honestly it would be tacky but it would also be human. These people got arrested by Israeli authorities. Their lives were at stake.
Fear is natural in this circumstance. Escapism is too. So are coping mechanisms.
I'm sure that there have been celebrations of some kind happening in Gaza as people cling desperately to anything they can to get through this situation. And to be clear, I am not making light of it or claiming that it is in any way "fun". I am just saying that people use what they can to get through things.
5
Altus762 days ago
+2
Yeah. F*** live aid. And farm aid and any other musical attempt to raise money to support a cause. All protest must be somber and painful. That’s the way you build a movement.
2
No_Match_79392 days ago
+4
This. People have always been f****** through some of the most horrific human conditions.
4
Hautamaki2 days ago
+30
Eh there was a whole Seinfeld episode about how it was rather gauche of Seinfeld to be caught making out in the theatre while Schindler's List was playing. I don't think you have to be a 17th century puritan to understand that viewpoint.
30
OkCoconut32702 days ago
+18
Engaging in sexual activity with multiple different partners on a boat...
Doesn't take that puritanical a view to consider that to be akin to "partying".
I mean I don't know what your day to day looks like
18
KillahHills103042 days ago
+18
Normal human activities: boats n hoes
18
FedorDosGracies2 days ago
+1
Sounds like you're not doing it right. Snoos Cruise!
1
Jacabusmagnus2 days ago
+8
Its not normal in the context.of the "work place" which arguable this is. He is a figure of authority who has a role regarding their welfare. So ya not ok. Add to that being on the leading committee who engaged the ethics group he should really have stood down during the investigation as otherwise how can you be sure he was not using his influence to effect the outcome. Work place relations 101.
8
Augmented_Fif2 days ago
+2
Wait, so was the complaint from one of the parties involved? Was it due to someone receiving favoritism to the party involved? If not, then people are just being busy bodies and not minding their business?
2
Reclusiarh2 days ago
+6
So everyone in the flotilla should be celibate? I'm pretty sure most of the outrage is the "3 different people" part, since it goes against conservative muslim views.
6
ashoka_akira2 days ago
+10
Anything with Greta attached to it is performative by default since she reached celebrity status. Is she aware of this simple fact or in denial about it is the real question, it’s not necessarily a bad thing if she’s aware of it a uses it judiciously.
That being said I think them having orgies or whatever is definitely unprofessional. Like no one cares about your sexual proclivities when you keep them at home in the bedroom… They do care about them when your shenanigans are happening on a very public stage. Like were they trying to be taken less seriously? Cause they succeeded.
10
BurningMad2 days ago
+7
How dare people have sex! Real activism involves suffering and being miserable!
7
Mindless-Peak-16872 days ago
+2
no it wouldn't. Only reason we hear about it is because they made it an issue. They do not have their priorities right.
2
[deleted]2 days ago
+22
[deleted]
22
ragtev2 days ago
+34
No, they(palestinians, not activists) were upset about the concert and celebratory atmosphere
34
Surturius2 days ago
+2
Okay I see now. I don't know how I misread that line so badly lol.
2
DFWPunk2 days ago
+2
I'm pretty sure the "concerts" were something like a guy with a guitar and some singing. They were at sea for days. They need to do something with their time, and if I'm right that's not problematic.
My guess is these guys have some other issue with the aid group.
2
CT_Phipps-Author2 days ago
+19
I mean the fact it's deliberate is part of the issue they have.
19
helgetun2 days ago
+13
The Palestinians are not asking for concerts, the "white savour complex" people behind the flotillas do. People with no skin in the game on party boats is not necessarily a good image - nor of help - to the poor suffering Palestinians. A somber peaceful demonstration down the main streets of Barcelona (eg like a funeral procession to remember the murdered children) would have been much more impactful than a boat launch party.
13
aradraugfea2 days ago
+15
Yeah. And there’s basically zero chance the aid is actually making it through. They’re getting caught and turned away. Which… hey, it brings visibility to what Israel is doing. Having a known name able to talk from direct experience about the shit the IDF is doing to detainees, including foreign nationals, drawing attention to the blockade in place? There’s value there. Visibility is not nothing. But if all you’re bringing is visibility, maybe don’t throw a party to celebrate your efforts. Maybe don’t spend the part of the trip that you’re not being harassed by the same people engaging in the genocide you’re supposedly protesting hooking up.
It’s your d***, as long as everyone is of age and consenting I don’t really give a shit what you do with it in your own time, but it sets the wrong tone and the optics are bad. And if all you can offer is visibility, optics matter.
If y’all got picked up by the IDF Naruto running across the Lebanese border, you can’t really call that protest.
15
QueasyLegKC2 days ago
-4
Or they could just accept the help that’s given to them?
Edit: not sure how this is controversial whatsoever. This whole issue seems to not be able to be discussed rationally by anyone.
-4
bfhurricane2 days ago
+129
How much aid actually gets there? These flotillas usually give the people on board some quick press as they are stopped and deported when they arrive.
Like, what would actually happen if they got to Gaza? What’s the plan?
If I were a Palestinian seeing activists using my plight to take boats across the Mediterranean while partying to knowingly get turned around at the destination, I might feel a little strange about it.
129
_Didds_2 days ago
+18
In tonnage is really impossible to get much using this kinds of boats, especially if they are full of activists.
Doing the rough math, with several people on board, fuel, basic food and supplies for the trip, etc, these small boats would have had very little in terms of free tonnage to carry much more.
Not trying to take side here, but we need to be realistic, it was a demonstrative effort. It’s not like they would dock in Palestine and suddenly end hunger in the region with what they had on board. At best they would be carrying a couple of people’s worth of weight in supplies, at worse they would dock and create caos around the pier and cause severe problems to keep people from boarding the boats safely.
I would love to see the cargo manifest of these boats when they left harbour. If they were carrying the amount of stuff they were claiming in the social media posts there was at least port authority documents about it that would prove their point.
18
mycatisblackandtan2 days ago
+28
This. One of the influencers keeps showing up on my feed over on Youtube Shorts, and while she's absolutely trying to be solemn, there's this weird performative air about it. Which is not helped by the fact that she was one of the people encouraging people not to vote for Kamala two years ago and platforming the 'Gaza's Speaking Now B****' shit.
Like, I admire actually trying to do something even if it is performative. Because most people either aren't or can't do shit at the moment. About all I can personally do is donate to organizations who are trying to help like OxFam and even that feels like a drop in the bucket.
But if I was in Gaza just trying to survive I'm also not sure how I'd feel. On the one hand it gets eyes back on the situation and forcing arrests of some of these influencers can nudge their home country governments just a little to maybe take action. But on the other hand them partying it up is not a great look because of how easy it's going to be for bad actors to spin this into a message that focuses on the flotilla rather than the genocide itself.
Unfortunately when you're an activist you often need to keep a squeaky clean reputation. As the people you are trying to convince, not the ones who already support you, often are already looking for a reason to dismiss you.
28
A_Rogue_Forklift2 days ago
+16
The "aid" that's just influencers using their suffering as a background for their videos
16
Bupod2 days ago
+389
It may upset some people to learn that many Palestinians are somewhat conservative islamists and would take a generally dim view of openly expressed sexuality under any circumstances. It’s not surprising they aren’t thrilled with this happening.
389
botle2 days ago
+113
I don't think that surprises anyone at all. It's just irrelevant when protesting their genocide.
113
SweetAlyssumm2 days ago
+84
It is not irrelevant to them.
I'm an atheist but I get the "celebratory atmosphere" reaction. It's unseemly. People are dying and rich white attention seekers who can afford to cavort and not go to a job are having a good time. If they are making money doing it (influencers) that's no better.
84
DJMixwell2 days ago
+27
Yeah I think both things are true here: in the grand scheme of things, this really isn’t a big deal at all, but it is wildly unprofessional and not the right time or place for that behaviour.
27
solaramalgama2 days ago
+30
It likely come as a surprise to the people who put up "Queer as in Free Palestine" stickers, I think. There is a certain kind of young progressive who has only ever had direct experience with Christian conservatism and tends to assume every other religion must be cooler about the things they personally value.
30
Bupod2 days ago
+44
They’re still people.
I’m just reminding people that, as people, they still reserve and exercise that ever-present human right of being entitled assholes. They’re going to do dumb things like criticize aid groups helping them for not perfectly conforming to *their* ideas and standards of decency. It’s not some unique trait to them, I think every human group would do this in a similar circumstance (and often do).
I don’t think it’s right to exterminate them. I don’t particularly like my neighbor, he’s a miserable a******, but I’m not praying he gets mowed down either. He’s an a******, not a monster.
But I still fully expect to have 60 comments replying to me in the next hour telling me why I’m wrong, telling me I’m right, telling me what I said is the reason we should cut aid off to them, telling me why this is still not justification to hurt them. I actually fully expect everyone to read what I said like they would tea leaves in a cup, extrapolate an entire transmitted worldview from it, and condemn or praise what I said based on it.
But generally speaking, what I said to you in this comment is my actual thoughts on the matter.
44
NTB3692 days ago
+30
It gives bad image tho. Like some people are not taking this seriously enough
30
ATarrificHeadache2 days ago
+27
It really is as simple as that. This is meant to be an important act and you’ve trivialized it.
27
Positive_Chip61982 days ago
+12
It’s almost like many of the people on that flotilla are a bit performative in their tiktok activism?
12
honkymotherfucker12 days ago
+88
Yeah I’m going to take their side on that, the *leader* doing that makes me think they’re not treating it with the gravity it deserves and they may have used their position a bit opportunistically to get their end off.
If it was just one person or something then whatever shit happens but 3 people? Come on man, there’s a time and a place.
88
Serious_Try52642 days ago
+23
Most people are only motivated by power.
23
RevolutionaryGain8232 days ago
+12
Yeah this thread is weird in how it’s downplaying the main problem here. This person was in a position of power over people in a dangerous, high stress situation and then slept with them. Even if he didn’t make threats/promises based on his position of power it’s still a weird, exploitative thing to do
12
ShareGlittering15022 days ago
+3
So someone had a boat o***… but like yeah, you’re on a boat. These things happen
3
someones_dad2 days ago
+2
Because of the implication, right?
2
alnarra_12 days ago
+10
Spanish Palestinian activist shocked that group of affluent white hippies behaved exactly like affluent white hippies on their way to deliver goods and services, news at 11. Back to you bob
10
vertigostereo2 days ago
+3
It's debatable whether they really believed the goods would be delivered.
3
b_m_hart2 days ago
+3
We are being starved to death, please have less game.
3
Alexandaross2 days ago
+2
Reminds me of Red Army Faction going to Palestine then being shocked that they weren't allowed to prance around naked.
2
looooookinAtTitties2 days ago
+2
this seems to me to fall under power dynamics. when is it consensual with a leadership person? only when the consenter is lateral in station. i don't think that's the case here. he was having sex with people he had leverage over
2
Bubbly-Attempt-13132 days ago
+10
I get it if they say “abuse of power” (which would be the case if you are a senior person having sex with your subordinates) but the claim is it doesn’t look good for the cause is somehow based on morals. And western mortals regarding sex are more liberal.
10
mschuster912 days ago
+2
Even in Western morals... is this a fuckfest or a political protest?
2
[deleted]2 days ago
+7
[removed]
7
realitydoor2 days ago
+2
For sure.
2
RandomGuy20022 days ago
+26
Well people will always have sex when they are stressed and probably fear the unknown
26
MCRemix2 days ago
+19
I mean... if that's what motivates you to do some good, have a f****** o***!
19
Vladmerius2 days ago
+4
It actually makes sense if looking at it as them only doing the charity for self promotion reasons and treating the thing as a party. I'd expect a more serious somber vibe from the crew.
4
Arrasor2 days ago
+8
Then refuse the aid.
Complaining about "image" while begging for aids are ridiculous.
8
DootyMcCool20002 days ago
+5
Yeahhhh no. Gaza is being turned to glass, the West Bank is a step closer to annexation every day, and Israel continues to try and expand into its neighbors. Sorry that the only people on this Earth willing to do, well, anything for Palestine are humans who have sex and throw parties. I'm 100% certain that actual Palestinians on the ground don't care much about that either while they're homes are rubble and their lives are destroyed.
Edit: I've done a little research on the orgs making these accusations. One is Palestine Reveals, a page with only about 80k followers on Instagram. They are based in Spain. Heart of Falastin is another Instagram page that's even smaller, less than 40k followers. They don't share where they're based but they're only connection is reposting the allegations from Palestine Reveals. Sounds like these pages absolutely don't speak for Palestinians in Gaza and that this whole story is a fat nothingburger.
The saddest part is that the sexual misconduct is literally the bottom of the priority list if you actually go to these pages and read their criticism. They make good points, they see the flotilla as performative and not impactful on the lives of Gazans and urge for something more tangible. Imo, the fact that NY Post is making this filler story instead of reporting on Gaza itself means that they are guilty of the same performative bs that the flotilla is accused of. That said, I still think the flotilla is good because nobody else is even trying to help Gaza right now. It'll get attention, put some eyes back on Gaza, and maybe even some of the supplies they brought could find their way inside Gaza.
5
Aliensinmypants2 days ago
+875
So I agree that it sounds like a smear campaign using moral panic, but if he was a leader in the group and having sex with the volunteers it could definitely be a power imbalance and frat issue if they were pressured at all.
Of course if the alleged victims don't speak up or had no issue with what happened then it is a nothing burger.
Eta: not to mention the "implication" of being at sea
875
Gavangus2 days ago
+385
I think its always sunny had a good clip about the implication on a boat
385
cmueses2 days ago
+186
Hilarious clip. She's perfectly able to say no and nothing will happen if she does. But she won't because of the implications.
186
udontnojak2 days ago
+103
See there's that word again.
103
Dragons_Malk2 days ago
+100
Are....are you going to hurt these women..?
100
JussiesTunaSub2 days ago
+402
> group of activists had consensual sex on a boat
Of course she can say no, but she won't...because of the implication.
402
RevolutionaryGain8232 days ago
+136
This bloke literally combined 2 Dennis plotlines (the boat and fake activism). Someone search his car for “tools” I’m getting concerned here (https://youtu.be/ype12RuDJ4k?is=-lFwn_067QnYOfz_)
136
Kirikou972122 days ago
+76
Oh. Uuuh... okay. You had me going there for the first part, the second half kinda threw me...
76
JussiesTunaSub2 days ago
+142
Dude, dude, think about it. She’s out in the middle of nowhere with some dude she barely knows. She looks around and what does she see? Nothing but open ocean. “Ahhh, there’s nowhere for me to run. What am I going to do? Say no?”
142
DynamicSploosh2 days ago
+104
But the thing is she’s not going to say no. She would never say no. **Because of the implication.**
104
Zycuifer2 days ago
+72
… it sounds like you’re going to hurt these women.
72
Dockers4flag2035orB42 days ago
+539
Consensual sex between adults?
Are we supposed to protest about that now?
539
ABritishCynic2 days ago
+382
Can I protest that it's not happening with me?
382
ariadeneva2 days ago
+73
hear hear
73
Monarc732 days ago
+37
You can protest, but I doubt that it will help. Good luck, I guess.
37
za722 days ago
+17
I'd ike defense to introduce the footage into evidence for my review
17
ciinnamom2 days ago
+9
they make forums for that i think
9
Monarc732 days ago
+45
This sounds like a culture clash more than anything else.
45
Emyrssentry2 days ago
+77
It is a sketchy culture to be building though. Hardly the worst in recent days, but still sketchy. Like, if you're a young woman wanting to get into activism, and you see this group and the vibe is "yeah, captain will ask if you wanna f***. It's totally fine if you say no, but you will also be stuck with this man on a boat for the next 2 weeks" it would definitely give pause to joining that group.
77
VelvetElvis2 days ago
+69
I've never known a group of 20-something left wing activists where people weren't hooking up constantly. You've got a group of people who are almost universally sex-positive, reject patriarchy and socially imposed gender roles living and working closely together while using lots of cannabis and/or Adderall. I mean, duh?
69
grubas2 days ago
+16
It is disgusting and offensive. Next it'll come out they had the lights on.
16
ConPrin2 days ago
+19
Apparently you cannot have fun if anything bad is happening somewhere in the world.
19
technobicheiro2 days ago
+27
yeah only non consensual sex between adults and children are accepted now
27
DummyDumDragon2 days ago
+33
Ok, Donald, let's get you back to the ~~White House~~ old folks home
33
ATarrificHeadache2 days ago
-10
The Palestinians themselves weren’t happy about it. To be honest if I’m starving and getting bombed and there’s this flotilla bigging itself up as my saviour or “raising awareness” of my plight that was actually a party boat with barely any aid on board I’d feel a bit offended.
-10
OurRobOrRoss2 days ago
+53
"The Palestinians themselves", no some bullshit online org was.
53
WinCrazy44112 days ago
+167
To play devil's advocate: The claim is that a guy in leadership had sex with 3 of the people under him, and it was only an internal investigation that cleared him of wrong-doing. There's certainly potential for abuse there.
But, from my experience in activism: Come on ... Some adults had sex. And no one involved thinks there was anything wrong. They probably have non-traditional views of sex and marriage, but if that's the worst someone can say of the group, that speaks pretty highly of them.
167
Kroniid092 days ago
+57
The investigation was done by an independent ethics team, I wonder how truly independent another group of volunteer attorneys for the same group can be, but they are in theory structurally independent from the people who are actually organising and on the boats
57
gideon5132 days ago
+68
Yeah but you have to work Greta’s name in to the headline as well so it can be associated with “sexual misconduct”. Media at work as always.
68
AmericanSteel4122 days ago
+33
I think part of the issue is that as a leader of the organization he was in a position of power and therefore might be seen as taking sexual advantage of people working under him while trapped on a boat in contested waters in the middle of a warzone.
>“To do it on the boat, while heading to a nation undergoing genocide, with volunteers who are under your authority … is a clear violation of ethics and power.”
33
NKD_WA2 days ago
+29
I mean it's a bunch of hippies. I imagine the power structure there is pretty flat and informal. No one's sleeping with anyone for a promotion. It's like saying you can't bang anyone at the book club you organize.
29
marr752 days ago
+46
Isn't that the primary reason unmarried young adults get into activism? Hell, activities in general?
46
Ok-Tangerine-6382 days ago
+35
Reminds me of that scene from the lost world
Nick Van Owen: "Do some volunteer work for Greenpeace once in a while.
Ian Malcolm: "Greenpeace? What drew you there?"
Nick Van Owen: "Women. Eighty percent female, Greenpeace"
35
4look4rd2 days ago
+22
We all know these flotillas are just performative. It’s essentially a feel good influencer career to everyone involved with little impact to the actual cause.
Not surprised at all that it’s just spring break for rich westerns cosplaying as do gooders.
22
Rjd26802 days ago
+4
Yeah, this doesn't really rise to the level of "sexual misconduct." These are consenting adults.
4
RichtofenFanBoy2 days ago
+673
Because of the implication.
673
Macktheattack2 days ago
+153
Are these women in danger?
153
RoyalJellyKing2 days ago
+107
No one’s in any danger, okay? It’s an implication of danger.
107
JuicyBroccoli2 days ago
+31
You certainly wouldn't be - not that anyone is in any danger!
It sounds like the allegations amount to some of the activists being mad that he had consensual sex with 3 people while on the boat. I don't see how that would qualify as sexual misconduct.
1435
HappyStalker2 days ago
+805
Scott is getting a little too fuckable. We gotta shut that down for the cause.
805
The-Fox-Says2 days ago
+179
Save some hot activists for the rest of us, Scott.
179
cake4chu2 days ago
+47
We will have a meeting on Tuesday to schedule a meeting to discuss wether or not we need to discuss Scott’s fuckboy antics.
47
Crewman_Guy_Fleegman2 days ago
+418
It sounds like this group is full of infighting and burning money on parties instead of actually helping Palestinians.
Greta left the main ship awhile ago for a reason, its popularity poisoned the well as a bunch of hanger ons and attention seekers showed up and upended the original mission, no longer making it an effective system to render real aid
> “As one resident living in the tents in Gaza said, ‘It would have been better to donate money to Gaza instead of throwing it into the sea without benefit’,” Palestinian journalist Mohammed AbuSalama wrote.
418
PsudoGravity2 days ago
+57
What do you f****** expect with *those* types of people? Hell of a self selection bias.
57
The_Sports_Guy912 days ago
+138
It was never about delivering aid in the first place lmaoo
138
Ntroepy2 days ago
+32
Of course it wasn’t. It was about raising awareness for the genocide in Gaza.
The fact we’re talking about it here means that at least that aspect has been wildly successful despite the negativity in the headline.
32
Dexpeditions2 days ago
+85
It was also an attempt at forcing foreign a relations crisis for Israel, the flotilla has people from all different nationalities and Israel illegally preventing their arrival to Gaza was intended to cause diplomatic problems with those people's countries
85
un_gaucho_loco2 days ago
-24
And greta is different how? Her climate activism was so important, and yet she decided to start doing random political stuff that had nothing to do with that and completely let the climate activism go. Which you’d not expect by someone who actually cares about that. She preferred the attention seeking activism
-24
Crewman_Guy_Fleegman2 days ago
+24
I don't know that she's different and I don't really care. She's not my concern. My point was that this flotilla group doesn't really look like it's doing anything useful at this point.
Go pull your soapbox up to someone else if you want to whine about Greta, I'm the wrong person to bark at.
24
vortexmak2 days ago
+16
You guys are trying so hard. It would have been cute but it's not.
Why the f*** are you so concerned with how she spends her time. Are you her dad?
16
tuttifruttidurutti2 days ago
+127
It's certainly a f****** vibe, though, and not one that is really conducive to the health of an activist organization, if a senior leader in an activist group is trying it on constantly. Things can be legal but also bad for your group's organizational state.
127
0zzyb0y2 days ago
+90
Yeah the optics are just bad, let alone the potential abuse of power dynamics at play.
I don't think there's a single serious organisation in the world that would want senior leadership f****** other staff, especially during 'work' activities. It doesn't matter that you're consenting adults, read the f****** room.
90
Safrel2 days ago
+55
There's something to be said about the inherent imbalance between a leader of an organization and the members of said organization, but I don't care enough about this specific incident to investigate further
55
OHoSPARTACUS2 days ago
+18
Maybe look at the Louis CK situation to brush up on unethical power dynamics. This is crazy misconduct.
18
Skaugy2 days ago
-11
Louis CK was accused of sexual misconduct by the women he took advantage of.
It sounds like this guy on the boat isnt being accused by any of the women he slept with, but by other passengers.
This is literally the Jesus consent meme.
-11
JoJackthewonderskunk2 days ago
+6
Maybe they were mad about the other 2?
6
Aggravating-Felch2 days ago
+4
nothing like an o*** in genocide protesting camp. Performative activists performative acts
4
ACoconutInLondon2 days ago
+1128
Since it looks like no one is actually reading the article:
>“**a senior leader** within the flotilla – a member of the steering committee, the highest governing body of the organisation – engaged in sexual relations with multiple activists while on the boat heading to Gaza...**with volunteers who are under your authority** … is a clear violation of ethics and power.”
This is where the misconduct allegation is coming from.
1128
The-Fox-Says2 days ago
+176
Aren’t they volunteers? What possible power would he have over them?
176
boxdkittens2 days ago
+697
The fact that they're stuck on a boat with him.
697
mrjackj22 days ago
+490
Is it because of the implication?
490
SpooogeMcDuck2 days ago
+157
Of course you’re not going to do anything if they don’t consent. The point is they’re not going to say no BECAUSE of the implication.
157
BlacktoseIntolerant2 days ago
+71
Are these volunteers in any danger?
71
rockytop242 days ago
+71
Nobody's in any danger! It's the implication!
71
5remmlife2 days ago
+43
Don’t look at me like that, you certainly wouldn’t be in any danger!
43
work__reddit2 days ago
+12
Are these activists in danger?
12
ES_the_mess2 days ago
+13
Whats the implication in this scenario? "Yarghh, if ye wont have sex with me, yer gonna walk the plank."
13
bbob_robb2 days ago
+15
I haven't watched It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. I don't know if this is part of the banter or if you also don't watch the show.
15
EggNo2892 days ago
+32
I mean, that's a joke, but that is also the perfect scene to use to explain power dynamics and why taking accusations/complaints like this seriously are necessary.
Even without the boat, in a situation where someone holds power over the other, there is some sort of "implication", even when it's never openly discussed or maybe even consciously thought about.
32
CantDoPlaid2 days ago
+78
The implications speak for themselves. Seriously though, IASIP laid out a clear explanation of why consent is not possible.
78
aradraugfea2 days ago
+34
It really is remarkable that the show did a funny bit that’s also a fantastic illustration of “can’t actually say no” poisons consent.
34
JaneMarie8762 days ago
-9
Does this mean people having sex on party yachts is all r*** too?
-9
0zzyb0y2 days ago
+105
Just because youre not being directly paid doesn't mean that there aren't power dynamics and ethics at play.
Harvey Weinsteins abuse of power didn't come from being the **only** person capable of hiring actors and actresses, but from the fact that being in his position allowed him to influence other studios and producers if he didn't get what he wanted.
Same goes for these people who might want to progress in charity work, there's still a hierarchy involved. It gets even worse when you're literally on a boat in international waters where you can't leave a situation. Nobodies saying that this is non-consensual, but there's still an element of 'the implication'.
105
Fluid-Tone-96802 days ago
+35
One of the is a "senior leader", so can assume there are also "non-senior leaders" and "non-leaders". It's classic power structure. The fact that they are not volunteers does not change the fact that some people in this organization have more power than other and a used it.
35
RequitedNonSequitur2 days ago
+76
What power could a person in charge of a fleet of ships in international water exert over people who have a mighty need to not drown?
He doesn't need to threaten anyone...because of the _implication_.
76
EggNo2892 days ago
+9
Is there any organizational/operational structure? If so, there is a power dynamic at play. Maybe that dynamic is not as severe as a CEO and an intern at a Fortune 500 company, or a majorly successful producer and an aspiring actress in Hollywood, or a Priest and an Altar Boy... but there is inherently a power dynamic issue.
Does that mean these encounters were 100% consensual and fine? No. But is also means there is reason enough to question/look into it if someone is suggesting the person at the upper end of the power dynamic was taking advantage of people.
Also... because of the implications.
9
No-Significance20702 days ago
+5
He does not need to have power. He has the implication.
5
ainosunshine2 days ago
+141
The D.E.N.N.I.S System in action.
141
Dejhavi2 days ago
+76
It seems like this isn't the first time this has happened in the flotilla:
>“The ethics committee has conducted investigations of this nature unrelated to the current allegations, and disciplinary action has been taken where evidence has warranted it,” the spokesperson said.
76
DefinitelyNotEmu2 days ago
+111
Serious question: Is it possible to be prosecuted for a crime in international waters where there are no laws?
111
Dependent-Poet-95882 days ago
+168
Vessels are primarily bound by the laws of the country of the flag they're flying under. There can be other conditions, but generally you are not exempt from following the law of some country.
168
mal732 days ago
+10
[Flag State Jurisdiction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_state)
>The **flag state** of a merchant vessel is the jurisdiction under whose laws the vessel is registered or licensed, and is deemed the nationality of the vessel. A merchant vessel must be registered and can only be registered in one jurisdiction, but may change the jurisdiction in which it is registered. The flag state has the authority and responsibility to enforce regulations over vessels registered under its flag, including those relating to inspection, certification, and issuance of safety and pollution prevention documents. As a ship operates under the laws of its flag state, these laws are applicable if the ship is involved in an admiralty case.
10
GenitalPatton2 days ago
+41
Yes, though it depends on what nation the boat / ship is registered to.
41
DefinitelyNotEmu2 days ago
+7
What if it is unregistered (ie: a pirate vessel)
7
Aliensinmypants2 days ago
+18
So international laws still apply, usually for trafficking and piracy.
Also in an alleged case like this, the nation the victim(s) have citizenship under can go after the accused
18
Substantial_Heat_5502 days ago
+13
There are technically laws in international water.
Prosecution mostly depends on the type of crime (some crimes grant any “arresting” nation JDX), where the ship was registered (ship is basically as the territory of that nation), and the nationality of those involved (the US (and many other nations) have laws that give the nation JDX over certain crimes against citizens essentially anywhere).
Not an expert in the field, just took an international law class during law school and we spent a big chuck of the class on this exact issue. Worth noting this is simplified and it is usually a pretty complex process to prosecute these cases. But it is possible.
13
Aliensinmypants2 days ago
+6
Definitely. The laws of the nation the ship is registered under are applicable, or depending on the country the nation of the victim will seek justice with their laws.
6
Throwupmyhands2 days ago
+7
“I have the worst f****** lawyers”
7
OutrageousFanny2 days ago
+4
They can't arrest man and wife for the same crime
4
EggNo2892 days ago
+5
If monkey knife fights are OK in international waters, then so is power-imbalance unwashed granola farts sex.
5
Jeremys_Iron_2 days ago
+6
>Serious question: Is it possible to be prosecuted for a crime in international waters where there are no laws?
What crime? The whole purpose of getting on the boat in the first place is to get the ladies nice and tipsy topside so you can take 'em to a nice comfortable place below deck and, you know, they can't refuse, because of the implication.
6
DefinitelyNotEmu2 days ago
+3
\> What crime?
I haven't claimed that a crime was committed - my question was speculative
3
hobovalentine2 days ago
+90
Before someone decries the "Zionist" media the accusations came from three volunteers that participated in the flotilla.
>An activist travelling on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla – also carrying Greta Thunberg – has denied accusations of “sexual misconduct” by three other volunteers, labelling the allegations a “smear campaign”.
90
AntonineWall2 days ago
+41
Is that ‘accusations…(made) by 3 other volunteers’ or ‘sexual misconduct by three other volunteers’?
41
Atromb2 days ago
+64
The volunteers did not accuse him of anything, they said it was consensual. The narrative was made by a third party and the volunteers oppose it.
64
ExplosiveDoctrine2 days ago
+47
No they didn't, the three volunteers denied any sexual misconduct.
47
Status-Specific-6002 days ago
+7
Of course, nobody would f*** Prince Eisenherz
7
Rastaferrari8292 days ago
+5
The word of the day is: OPTICS.
5
AnonymousInMI2 days ago
+74
I mean while skeezy, especially considering the guy has a wife & two year old daughter @ home, it sounds consensual. Personally though if I’m married & on a humanitarian mission I wouldn’t be having sex with anyone that isn’t my wife.
74
ethancole972 days ago
+87
He is one of the people who have the highest authority in the situation so the power dynamic between him and the people he did it with is definitely unethical
87
kadaka802 days ago
+31
We have a saying in Greece for situations like this. Translation more or less: Here the world is burning and the p**** is getting it's hair brushed
Make your own conclusions if this saying applies here
31
jdefr2 days ago
+38
Not sure what to make of that honestly..
38
Symbolicdeathwish2 days ago
+84
lol pfft, as long as it was consensual and legal, then who the f cares.
84
JussiesTunaSub2 days ago
+88
Apparently he banged 3 women and other people on the boat got upset that people were banging...it's all because of the implication you see. You're on a boat, in the middle of the ocean....she can say No, but she won't....
He's just trying to Demonstrate Vale before Engaging Physically. As any good DENNIS system follower should.
But don't worry..it hasn't happened yet according to article:
>The 39-year-old **sailed to Gaza in June 2026** aboard the 12-person Madleen, where he was pictured with fellow activist Ms Thunberg, before they were eventually arrested by Israeli forces and deported.
88
Dark_Mak__r2 days ago
+29
June 2026!?
Typo
29
Disastrous_Room_9272 days ago
+12
Time travelers like to get down too
12
JussiesTunaSub2 days ago
+5
Sounds just like something a time traveler would say.
5
pikpikcarrotmon2 days ago
+3
What I'm hearing is there's still time... For me to get on that boat!
3
zeniiz2 days ago
+18
> Apparently he banged 3 women and other people on the boat got upset that people were banging
I mean yeah, it's a protest against a genocide. Treating it like a spring break vacation, especially as the leader of the protest, calls into question the validity and seriousness of the protest.
18
eposseeker2 days ago
+55
He was some kind of leader according to the article, it's unclear what kind of authority dynamics exist in a ragtag humanitarian flotilla.
But if he did have a position of authority and used it to solicit sex from multiple subordinates, then an investigation doesn't sound out of ordinary.
55
Powerful-Pea62182 days ago
+29
Why is this always described as belonging to Greta? She's not the sole organizer of this. Also I totally understand why people would be upset or off put by this. It does seem inappropriate given the mission
29
lionelhutz-2 days ago
+19
Clicks. Clicks are always the answer.
19
EggNo2892 days ago
+5
This article wouldn't have even been written 30years ago. Not because views around "sexual misconduct allegations" have evolved and not because we live in post "me too" world.
>“The ethics committee talked to all three people mentioned and they confirmed that this is just a smear campaign, that we are comrades and nothing ever happened.”
>A spokesperson for the flotilla said an investigation into the sexual misconduct allegations against Mr Avila, which first came to light in November, found no evidence of wrongdoing.
>“In the absence of any complainant, witnesses or evidence, there was no basis for the matter to proceed,” the GSF spokesperson told *The Post*.
This article wouldn't have even been written 30years ago because as it turns out there is not story here. We now live the "age of content," in which everyone (journalists, professional news gathering/reporting organizations, main-stream media, online publishers, new-media, pundits, cable news, influencers, podcasters, content creators, local digital news, etc MUST pump out as much content as humanly possible 24/7/365 to get clicks, likes, shares, views, engagement...
We have built a world in which so much content is being produced and algorithmically personalized (distributed to users specifically based on their online/social media behaviors) that a single tweet from some anon is enough of a source to concoct a clickable headline around and then barf out a couple hundred words to then post articles across social media platforms to try and drive clicks/views the website.
We are drowning in an ocean of content, the vast majority of which is just empty headlines.
5
redelectro72 days ago
+41
This is gonna get more attention than the sexual assault accusations against the IOF by the people on the flotilla.
41
kitkatt8192 days ago
+8
They shouldn’t be calling this sexual misconduct. But I do think it’s quite ridiculous that y’all couldn’t be professional enough to not make a headline of your sexual escapades while trying to give aid to people experiencing a genocide.
Like come on. I’d expect adults to understand the seriousness of the situation they are in and act accordingly.
8
bobugm2 days ago
+30
You think those people are adults? They threw a party before setting sail. For them this whole thing is a game. And I think it is misconduct. Imagine your boss having sex with three of your colleagues. Yeah it's not illegal if it's consensual but come on, it's sketchy as f*** and completely unethical.
30
kitkatt8192 days ago
+7
I mean I agree with everything you’re saying for the most part, but I think professional hierarchy was probably out the window from the start
7
No_Issue23342 days ago
-2
So... dude fucked 3 consenting women (while married with kids) on a boat and now they're just jealous of the other women that they're claiming he committed sexual misconduct? Being cheating womanizer isn't sexual misconduct
What a nothingburger lol a dude being shitty isn't newsworthy
-2
Creative-Alfalfa-3172 days ago
Let's wait until the investigation speaks
0
Quankers2 days ago
+12
This is “they call themselves socialists, but I saw one driving a car!” calibre controversy.
12
yeezuslived2 days ago
+20
Of course this place is full of people who see no problem with this. Any other situation where a man in charge sleeps with women he's a monster. This? Nope, consenting adults.
20
PM-me-youre-PMs2 days ago
-1
Wanna share an example of "Any other situation where a man in charge sleeps with women he's a monster" ?
-1
TheMegaSage2 days ago
+2
"Anti Esquerda Esquerda Club, a group that describes itself as criticise the left from the left,"
The source of the accusation. It sounds like they are a group looking to take the moral high ground but not actually do anything. It's easy to cast stones at other people if you're not putting yourself out there. *shrug*
199 Comments