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Announcements Jun 6, 2016 at 8:39 PM

Affiliate links on Listnook

Posted by starfishjenga

Hi everyone, Today we’re launching a test to rewrite links (in both comments and posts) to automatically include an affiliate URL crediting Listnook with the referral to approximately five thousand merchants (Amazon won’t be included). This will only happen in cases where an existing affiliate link is not already in place. Only a small percentage of users will experience this during the test phase, and all affected listnookors will be able to opt out via a setting in user preferences labelled “replace all affiliate links”. The redirect will be inserted by JavaScript when the user clicks the link. The link displayed on hover will match the original link. Clicking will forward users through a third-party service called Viglink which will be responsible for rewriting the URL to its final destination. We’ve signed a contract with them that explicitly states they won't store user data or cookies during this process. We’re structuring this as a test so we can better evaluate the opportunity. There are a variety of ways we can improve this feature, but we want to learn if it’s worth our time. It’s important that Listnook become a sustainable business so that we may continue to exist. To that end, we will explore a variety of monetization opportunities. Not everything will work, and we appreciate your understanding while we experiment. Thanks for your support. Cheers, u/starfishjenga Some FAQs: **Will this work with my adblocker?** Yes, we specifically tested for this case and it should work fine. **Are the outgoing links HTTPS?** Yes. **Why are you using a third party instead of just implementing it yourselves?** Integrating five thousand merchants across multiple countries is non-trivial. Using Viglink allowed us to integrate a much larger number of merchants than we would have been able to do ourselves. **Can I switch this off for my sublistnook?** Not right now, but we will be discussing this with sublistnook mods who are significantly affected before a wider rollout. **Will this change be reflected in the site FAQ?** ~~Yes, this will be completed shortly.~~ This is available [here](https://listnook.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/sections/202082046-Affiliate-links) **EDIT (additional FAQ): Will the opt out be for links I post, or links I view?** When you opt out, neither content you post nor content you view will be affiliatized. **EDIT (additional FAQ 2): What will this look like in practice?** If I post a link to [a storm trooper necklace](http://www.ebay.com/itm/Star-Wars-Storm-Trooper-3D-Necklace/111817866493?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D777000%26algo%3DABA.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131227121020%26meid%3Daa3df26a727e4999b28c34077939ff19%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D112015566756) and don't opt out or include an affiliate link then when you click this link, it will be rewritten so that you're redirected through Viglink and Listnook gets an affiliate credit for any purchase made. **EDIT 3** We've added some questions about this feature to the [FAQ](https://listnook.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/sections/202082046-Affiliate-links) **EDIT 4** For those asking about the ability to opt out - based on your feedback we'll make the opt out available to everyone (not just those in the test group), so that if the feature rolls out more widely then you'll already be opted out *provided you have changed the user setting*. This will go live later today. **EDIT 5** The user preference has been added for *all* users. If you do not want to participate, go ahead and uncheck the box in your user preferences labeled "replace affiliate links" and content you create or view will not have affiliate links added. **EDIT (additional FAQ 3): Can I get an ELI5?** When you click on a link to some (~5k) online stores, Listnook will get a percentage of the revenue of any purchase. If you don't like this, you can opt out via the user preference labeled "replace affiliate links". **EDIT (additional FAQ 4): The name of the user preference is confusing, can you change it?** Feedback taken, thanks. The preference will be changed to "change links into Listnook affiliate links". I'll update the text above when the change rolls out. Thanks! **EDIT (additional FAQ 5): What will happen to existing affiliate links?** This won't interfere with existing affiliate links.
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198 Comments

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FizixMan Jun 6, 2016 +410
I take it this will operate like Google? When I mouse-over a search result, it shows the normal URL, but as soon as I left-click or right-click it, it gets replaced by a Google redirect (I assume so it can track clicks) However, this _pisses me off_ sometimes when I want the URL. This is when the site is down, or for some reason, the google redirect fails, the site itself redirects somewhere else (and I want the original URL), or I want to record/share the URL without having to click through to the site. Basically, I'm ok with it doing the JavaScript URL replacement when _left_-clicking, but when I pull up the _right_-click context menu (to access "Save Link As" or "Copy Link Location") it'd be nice if that stayed the original, non-redirected URL.
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[deleted] Jun 7, 2016 +27
What, you don't like "Copy Link Location" links like https://www.google.de/url?asu9asjhd9usdjhfouhj1u2h989=sdfs38&dfsodfjsoifdjasoj&sadf9dsf9sdfokdjvosdjfosdifs=sdfisjdfosadjfo273f7sd9f=)fisjdfoasjdfoidjsfo2398)isdfjosadjfo2982389?§9sdidnvosdnmvoasdnfos&f***=yes which leads to "www.example.com" (this link is made up, I was scared my actual copy would leak info unknown to me)
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starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +279
Yes, it will function as you described. Right click will function as you suggested.
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FizixMan Jun 6, 2016 +62
Thanks for the quick reply and info. Keep up the great work!
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smileedude Jun 6, 2016 +1202
When I've seen viglinks used on a forum before it replaced some of my words with links to products associated with those words. So if I said chair it would add a link to a furniture store to chair. Unfortunately there was no clear determination between paid ads and user links. It basically made me think any link anyone provided was an ad. Will this be how this works?
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merreborn Jun 6, 2016 +42
Viglink offers multiple products. One is what you describe -- links are injected by the "VigLink Insert" product on certain keywords. What the admins are describing here is "VigLink Convert", which only upgrades existing eCommerce URLs that were already links in the page from unaffiliated to affiliated. It does not add any links to the page that weren't already there. http://www.viglink.com/products/
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starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +694
No, only existing links with no existing affiliate code and only if the viewer and poster have both not opted out.
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smileedude Jun 6, 2016 +503
Ok, so it only works if I link to an existing product with a specific supplier? Listnook will now get credit for that link, and nothing will really change to the user besides some changes to the URL path. All links will still end up in the same place? I'm cool with that.
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starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +352
Yeah. I don't think it needs to be a specific product though - like if I were to just link to [ebay](http://www.ebay.com) I believe it would still work, but it has to be an existing link.
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smileedude Jun 6, 2016 +511
That's pretty good. Seems like a win win for everyone. Just please don't try to add incentives to creating successful viglinks. The last thing anyone wants is people adding ebay links to every post to earn gold.
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starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +310
Agreed. We don't want to mess with the incentives to create quality content.
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crustalmighty Jun 6, 2016 +279
What about dank memes and shitposts?
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starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +986
If you link to any rare Pepes we better be getting a cut!
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rburp Jun 7, 2016 +69
I can do 50 GBP per link, and that's my final offer.
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AMusicianNamedJoe Jun 7, 2016 +11
How much credit for the [rarest of the rare Pepes](http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Pepe-Meme-Rarest-of-Pepe-the-Frog-Collectible-Meme-/152099122083?hash=item2369d06ba3:g:ZEwAAOSwd2xXQQqF)?
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ixijimixi Jun 7, 2016 +2
TIL that there are incentives on Listnook to create quality content...
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Mikeydoes Jun 6, 2016 +51
Are we allowed to post our own affiliate links? Are we getting(ever going to get) cut in on the profits?
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starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +136
There's no change to policies for posting your own affiliate links. If you do so, this change won't interfere with your affiliate link. There aren't any plans to give a cut of profits to users - if users are concerned with monetizing their links they're welcome to post their own affiliate code.
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bse50 Jun 6, 2016 +23
Given the way viglink works it will turn listnook into a clusterfuck. Whenever I tried to use it it was like cancer, even worse than adwords heavy websites. Better solutions should be implemented before resorting to such extreme measures to rake in some cash.
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Trauermarsch Jun 6, 2016 +47
Hey, your post - it's mod distinguished, not [A]dmin distinguished.
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GroovingPict Jun 6, 2016 +28
how do we opt out
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[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 +823
I was a regular on the Straight Dope forums when they tried to monetize it by introducing viglinks. It was a c*** move. It's not the concept I object to, it's that viglinks servers absolutely f****** *suck*. Links between the forum site and most external sites were essentially disabled due to poor performance. I sincerely hope they up their game for listnook.
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starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +483
We'll keep an eye out for performance issues. If this is a problem we'll reevaluate the partnership.
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unchow Jun 7, 2016 +188
Just out of curiosity, do you have some language in your agreement with them that holds them to some metric of availability/uptime/speed? Something that would let you easily dump the agreement if they fall behind?
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starfishjenga Jun 7, 2016 +287
We can stop it at any time and a performance hit would most definitely cause us to reevaluate them as a partner. Please let me know if you see a performance hit. Thanks!
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unchow Jun 7, 2016 +239
Man you're answering questions in this thread like it's your day job! Seems like you've covered your bases, and I'll be intentionally not opting out.
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aaaaaaaarrrrrgh Jun 7, 2016 +9
Have the JS only redirect the first click on the link. That way if it doesn't load you can click it again and it'll load directly.
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nic0machus Jun 7, 2016 +2
Hijacking your top comment in this post to say that /u/spez would be [very disappointed in you](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/4megfw/ama_about_my_darkest_secrets/d3uw3up?context=3) for failing to distinguish in this entire thread.
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[deleted] Jun 7, 2016 -1
[deleted]
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stevenmu Jun 6, 2016 +802
> We’ve signed a contract with them that explicitly states they won't store user data or cookies during this process. Does this mean that they won't store data during the testing phase, or does it mean that they won't store data during the redirect process ever?
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aladyjewel Jun 6, 2016 +569
When you say "will this work with my adblocker", do you mean "adblocker will prevent rewriting the url to a VigLink redirect and I still get to the site? I'd love to tell people to use Adblocker instead of requesting less appropriate tools add support for this.
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starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +494
I meant that using an Adblocker won't cause links to break even though Viglink is likely a blocked URL.
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halgagnuclonibeiseit Jun 6, 2016 +207
This comment has been overwritten by an open source script to protect this user's privacy. It was created to help protect users from doxing, stalking, and harassment. If you would also like to protect yourself, add the Chrome extension [TamperMonkey](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tampermonkey/dhdgffkkebhmkfjojejmpbldmpobfkfo), or the Firefox extension [GreaseMonkey](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/greasemonkey/) and add [this open source script](https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/10380-listnook-overwrite). Then simply click on your username on Listnook, go to the comments tab, scroll down as far as possibe (hint:use [RES](http://www.listnookenhancementsuite.com/)), and hit the new OVERWRITE button at the top. Also, please consider using [Voat.co](https://voat.co) as an alternative to Listnook as Voat does not censor political content.
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uffefl Jun 6, 2016 +104
As OP explained it they use Javascript to rewrite the URL when you click it. So if that particular piece of javascript is disabled, the URL will not get rewritten, and therefore be the original URL and the click will work like nothing has changed. (It's a pretty standard way, for example, for search results to register what result you clicked, etc.)
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starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +350
I don't know exactly how adblockers work (since I don't know their codebase) but I'd speculate that adblockers are blocking domains that are being loaded in a background fashion, not those that are part of your click stream.
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toomuchtodotoday Jun 6, 2016 +317
This is correct. Aggressive adblock user here, totally happy with the change. Drive dat revenue!
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Fiiyasko Jun 7, 2016 +4
What about us people who block ads via the Hosts file?
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[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 -283
[deleted]
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magus424 Jun 6, 2016 +103
You are mistaken about that. Many ad blockers will hard-block all connection attempts to certain domains.
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CritterNYC Jun 6, 2016 +10
In most adblockers, you'll get a page that says a given link is prevented from loading due to list (whatever). You're given a choice to temporarily allow it or permanently. Or just click back. Here's what it looks like in uBlock: http://i.imgur.com/zY0XnCP.png So, yes, you can still follow the link without issue. You'll still be tracked by the referring network.
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Asksthewrongquestion Jun 6, 2016 +54
What did you eat for breakfast?
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aladyjewel Jun 6, 2016 +42
More specifically, does the user still go through the VigLink redirect? (edit: I personally support this program, but want to have a good answer to give privacy-happy users who ask me to implement a workaround for logged out users or on top of the account-level opt-out.)
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space_fountain Jun 6, 2016 +59
Just curious. You said the outgoing links are to HTTPS. Do you meant the link that Listnook forwards to or the link that Viglink forwards to or both?
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starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +126
Links to Viglink are HTTPS, but the one from Viglink to the destination will depend on whether the originally posted link was HTTPS or HTTP (it will match the original).
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[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 +260
[deleted]
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WangoBango Jun 6, 2016 +369
So this basically just gives Listnook the credit for some of the ad revenue sites get from traffic directed towards them from here? I'm not totally clear on what this is, exactly. As long as it's not a redirect like... Certain sites of ill-repute use, I might be OK with it.
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starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +316
Yes, it just gives Listnook the credit. This is for ecommerce generally speaking, not ads.
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Canrex Jun 6, 2016 +268
If I press the back arrow, would I get sent back to Listnook, or be stuck on the infinite redirect page?
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Cribbit Jun 6, 2016 +79
Will there be a way to strip the affiliate portion of links others post?
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starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +121
The opt-out will strip the affiliate portion that Listnook adds, but not others. (Mods often disallow these from their sublistnooks anyway.)
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Fzzr Jun 6, 2016 +4
So, wait. Checking the preference about affiliate links is how you opt OUT right?
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princekolt Jun 6, 2016 +6
Excellent, this way there is no incentive for users to not opt-out. Awesome stuff, great idea!
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[deleted] Jun 7, 2016 +1
You might want to split this option into two. One for "don't add affiliate information to links that I post" and one for "don't add affiliate information to links that I click." Personally, I wouldn't want that kind of thing added to links I post (Disco Stu doesn't *advertise*), but I really don't have a huge issue with clicking on links like that, provided those who posted them don't mind. So I'll end up disabling the whole thing just to not have my own posts monetized, ya know?
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RUFiO006 Jun 6, 2016 +89
When you say 5000 merchants, does this essentially mean a selection of different online stores? So if someone links a t-shirt design, for example, this feature may swap out an affiliate link in place of the original posted URL? Also, props for the opt-out. That'll probably save you from a public lynching.
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merreborn Jun 6, 2016 +16
> this feature may swap out an affiliate link in place of the original posted URL? It always links to the same store/page. It just adds an affiliate code. You're not going to click a cafe press link, and get sent to a walmart.com page instead, or anything like that.
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[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 +75
[deleted]
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starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +155
No plans for rev share. That seems like it would open a can of worms around incentives. Also, it's not likely this would add up to an important amount of money for most people's links. If people want to post their own affiliate links, they continue to be welcome to do so, provided the policies of the sublistnook they're posting in permit this.
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[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 +88
Not sure why this was downvoted, revenue sharing would be a nightmare to implement and kinda pointless since people can already post their own affiliate links
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youtherealmvp1 Jun 6, 2016 +68
Does the affiliate-insertion extend to (third party) apps? (I.e. the API)
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[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 +120
[deleted]
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starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +127
It will be part of your user preferences, so as long as your plugins don't destroy your user preferences, it will be preserved.
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[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 +41
[deleted]
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starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +87
This feature hasn't launched yet. I'll post an update to this post when it goes live. If you're part of the test group, the opt out will appear in user preferences.
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stonefit Jun 6, 2016 +36
On by default? (Of course?)
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[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 -16
[deleted]
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starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +111
Your recourse is one of the following: 1) Log in, and opt out. 2) Right click, copy link, paste in your browser of choice 3) Wait for someone to create a browser plugin which strips the Javascript out
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actuallobster Jun 6, 2016 +15
I seem to recall reading that middle clicking or going right click, open in new tab/window works, since it's the left click event that's captured. Is that the case?
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PaleBlueEye Jun 6, 2016 +17
I'm not a fan of viglinks as it's used in ProBoard. There's a slight lag as the link goes to the referrer link first, and copy pasting links means visiting the page though the referrer to actually get a URL. This is going to suck.
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starfishjenga Jun 7, 2016 +14
We're going to be watching for any degradation in experience - please remember this is a test. If it goes poorly we'll reconsider how it's implemented.
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C1V Jun 6, 2016 +65
I use Amazon Smile for a charity currently. Will this take a separate cut of whatever money is earmarked for charities/sites or will this take the whole piece?
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roionsteroids Jun 6, 2016 +59
Can you please provide an example link?
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brackin Jun 6, 2016 +124
let's say chad found a f****** siiick hoverboard to go w his new vape. he posts his findings to /r/fourloko saying, "sup fam blaze it on this new hoverboard af: www.douchemerch.com/buy-hoverboard". now when you go to /r/fourloko and see chad's post, your computer will see the link as www.douchemerch.com/buy-hoverboard?affiliate=listnook. if you decide to buy a hoverboard to finally get laid, you'll be supporting listnook in the process because d***** merch will give them a kick back for referring you.
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[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 +22
[deleted]
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BusToNutley Jun 6, 2016 +16
Is the option to opt out available now? If not, is there any way to opt out before the change is made?
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starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +18
Yeah, based on feedback the engineer on the project said he can add this sooner (before we launch the feature). Stay tuned for an announcement.
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the_noodle Jun 7, 2016 +2
Niiiice Give that guy a raise
2
MrSelfDestruct Jun 6, 2016 +34
Who are the 5000 merchants?
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elmoslats Jun 6, 2016 +25
Does 'opting out' mean links in comments I post don't get affiliated or that I won't see any affiliated links across the site?
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hapaxLegomina Jun 6, 2016 +48
Can I, as a mod, opt-out my sub from either the beta or the final deployment?
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[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 +40
What does this mean for the common user who has no idea what affiliate links are, let alone redirection?
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[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 +14
[deleted]
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anothercarguy Jun 6, 2016 +31
I run a script blocker. Will anything change for me?
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mikeytoe Jun 7, 2016 +7
I'm kind of late to the party but I didn't see this answered anywhere and I think it's important. Will the fact that a post or comment contains a monetizable link impact its ranking in the algorithm, now or in the future?
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bugoid Jun 7, 2016 +9
What guarantees do we have that Vigilink cannot or will not serve malware? In particular, are there any guarantees that Vigilink won't serve 3rd party executable content (e.g., JavaScript, Flash, Java, etc.) from sources other than Vigilink? Malvertising is an enormous problem, especially with the modern trend towards real-time bidding.
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DVNO Jun 7, 2016 +8
What happens if/when the partnership ends? Will the old links be redirected to a server that no longer exists, breaking old posts?
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paganpan Jun 6, 2016 +1732
The knee-jerk reaction is to get upset at some perceived overreach by Listnook, but at the same time. It isn't costing me anything and it helps fund a website that I enjoy. I am willing to be persuaded that this is better or worse than I thought, but for the most part, sounds like Listnook is doing what Listnook needs to do to be able to continue to provide us with a service that most of us are not willing to pay for.
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Amadeus_IOM Jun 6, 2016 +343
Listnook is increasingly under pressure from investors to make money. This step may over-write cookies from other affiliates and gives Listnook cash in a way that some may say is unfair. Let's see how it pans out and a clean opt-out would be a must have for many users I suspect.
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bizude Jun 6, 2016 +249
Honestly, I hope listnook creates a system where they replace other's affiliate links with their own. Why? In both of the subs I moderate, spam bots which only exist to post affiliate links create **a lot** of spam. If Listnook overwrote their affiliate links, that would remove all motivation for people to spam Listnook with affiliate links.
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Jemsy0 Jun 6, 2016 +72
All the spammer would need to do is link to a site they control which then redirects to the real affiliate. Listnook won't have an affiliate account and the spammers website will get the credit.
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bizude Jun 6, 2016 +15
We had a case like that in /r/Monitors. A certain clickbait site kept creating URL mirrors (i.e. thissiteiscool.com/dumbpage.htm would redirect to thesitewebanned.com/dumbpage.htm), but it was easy to keep under control because we'd just ban the mirror URLs.
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lilbro93 Jun 6, 2016 +25
How do you opt out?
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GreySoulx Jun 6, 2016 +5
If I use a custom HOSTS file as my adblocking system (MVPS) and it blocks VigLink connected domains, will it prevent me from going to the source link? If viglink goes offline for some/any reason, will it break listnook's ability to redirect?
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spez Jun 6, 2016 +376
This is the beginning of the end. Maybe it's the end of the end. Whatever. I'm going back to Digg.
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33rd_comment Jun 7, 2016 +15
Or we could start our own social media site and make it a cross between Digg and listnook, we could call it Diggit! And watch the chaos on whether it's pronounced Diggit or Diggit.
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ANAL_GRAVY Jun 6, 2016 +286
This is misleading at best! Unbeknownst to the user, they are being passed through a third-party (called VigLink), given a cookie and having their IP address and other details logged and passed to other companies. As you pass through their site, you are subject to their policies and marketing. /u/starfishjenga has said Listnook userdata is exempt from this, but this is for items like your email address. The page you came from, the page you are going to, and it certainly cookies are being added by Viglink to your browser and shared with other sites, advertisers and marketing companies. The user won't know about it, especially since Listnook are going to clickjack the link, so unless you examine the Javascript (or you read this) then you'd have no idea this was happening. HOVERING OVER THE LINK WILL TELL YOU NOTHING AT ALL. Originally it wasn't even going to be put in the Terms or Privacy Policy either. -- If /u/starfishjenga would like to answer this, how are their legal terms and conditions are invalidated for Listnook users? To what extent? What threshold causes users to have to agree to it? Does visiting their site change this? How will Listnook stop them storing user cookies? I asked you a week ago - and you stopped responding. -- Viglink's [Privacy Policy](http://www.viglink.com/legal/privacy/) is fairly clear. **If you have any concerns I suggest users read it, or block their site.** I assume we're meant to agree to this without having seen it linked anywhere officially in Listnook T&Cs: > "When you interact with us through the Site, we receive and store certain additional personally non-identifiable information. Such information, which is collected passively using various technologies" > > "Examples include **IP addresses, browser types, domain names**, and other anonymous statistical data " > > "We may use personally non-identifiable information and pool it with other information to track" > > "VigLink ... may use first-party cookies ... and third-party cookies together to inform, optimize, and serve ads on sites across the Internet based on someone’s past visits to the VigLink website. These ads, often referred to as “remarketing,” may be personalized using information inferred from their behavior when visiting VigLink’s website" -- TL;DR: (sorry for length) Listnook might not be providing our details directly, but by masquerading and click-jacking links, they are sending all of us through a third-party site who is collecting our IP address and other data. They are also using this data to see which sites have people have gone to, and storing cookies to be able to connect these visits together. Despite not having personal information such as email addresses, this is still tracking data, and we are agreeing that this is being shared with third-parties. -- Things have changed at Listnook. It's not some friendly site. It's all about your data and the profit that can be made from it. Do remember that this is just days after the /r/politics censorship - where Listnook admins asked their mods to remove posts. I'm not sure this is a good direction, /u/starfishjenga. Even if that is compensated by a few cents coming in from people linking to eBay. I really hope Listnook will reconsider.
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sillyvijay Jun 7, 2016 +4
Thank you for letting us know in detail about the changes. Kudos for fielding questions, addressing concerns and perhaps considering some of the suggestions. Overall, nice to see a transparent approach to decision making, mostly. But... From "Discuss this ad" to "User's link, Listnook's money" is a big shift in monetization. Pros: + Latches onto trending monetization strategy versus ads + User generated content makes it easy to scale + Brings 5000 sellers to the ecosystem + Possibly gets Listnook finance from operating costs to profit, and hopefully the money goes into making the site perform better before anything else Cons: + Could alienate power users + Opening links could be slower + Legal complexities could arise + Privacy and tracking issues could arise + Daily Listnook GOLD goal may become irrelevant. Gasp! Was there any other option presented to the Listnook community on monetizing the site? Maybe, Listnookors would dig Diamonds (some new incentive) as much as Gold? Or maybe sponsored comments in the first 200 of a post might be more discrete, yet impactful :) Hoping Listnook gets the mix right and morphs into a better Listnook.
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Booty_Bumping Jun 6, 2016 +32
> all affected listnookors will be able to opt out via a setting in user preferences labelled “replace all affiliate links”. Please introduce this option to everyone before rolling this change out for everyone. Or at least show a notice akin to firefox's "Firefox automatically sends some data to Mozilla so that we can improve your experience [Choose What I Share]" where dismissing it enables the default privacy settings.
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green_meklar Jun 7, 2016 +3
>What will this look like in practice? If I post a link to a storm trooper necklace and don't opt out or include an affiliate link then when you click this link, it will be rewritten so that you're redirected through Viglink and Listnook gets an affiliate credit for any purchase made. Am I to understand from this that, from a user's perspective, we're still ending up looking at whatever was actually originally linked at? The 'affiliate link' doesn't lead us somewhere different, it just ensures that Listnook gets credit (hey, that rhymes!) for new users/customers referred from here? Sorry, I'm just kinda confused about what this whole thing means.
3
Warlizard Jun 6, 2016 +36
Back the f*** up. Just so I'm clear, if I post something with an affiliate link, I get shadow-banned for spamming Listnook but when you do it, it's a new revenue model? Am I missing something here? Is this new? Are you officially saying that Listnook users may now add an affiliate code to anything they link? In the 5 years since my book came out, it has been linked *countless* times on Listnook. I can only imagine how much affiliate money I would have made by putting a little code after that and raking in the phat dough. BRB, adding affiliate links to ALL THE THINGS! EDIT: Just to be clear, if I link my book like this: http://www.amazon.com/Warlizard-Chronicles-Adventures-Vodka-Women/dp/0615461875?ie=UTF8&creativeASIN=0615461875&linkCode=w00&linkId=a17fd354f33b5cbdd0411289137ec0ab&ref_=as_sl_pc_tf_til&tag=warlizard-20 then nothing will be changed but if I just link it like this: http://www.amazon.com/Warlizard-Chronicles-Adventures-Vodka-Women/dp/0615461875 Then your software will add in a Listnook affiliate link to it and you guys will get the revenue? Just trying to clarify. I can't see any way this could be abused at all. Oh, and here's my book, one more time, with affiliate link added, just so people can see an example of how this works: http://www.amazon.com/Warlizard-Chronicles-Adventures-Vodka-Women/dp/0615461875?ie=UTF8&creativeASIN=0615461875&linkCode=w00&linkId=a17fd354f33b5cbdd0411289137ec0ab&ref_=as_sl_pc_tf_til&tag=warlizard-20
36
[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 +11
[deleted]
11
[deleted] Jun 7, 2016 +4
[deleted]
4
s1ncere Jun 6, 2016 +6
are you worried that people will start to create and post only affiliate links so they get the clicks and not listnook? are you worried this could start a dangerous trend?
6
starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +25
They'd have no additional incentive to do this beyond what's existed in the past unless they just *really* want to make Listnook another few cents.
25
s1ncere Jun 6, 2016 -1
hmmm, I should have specified more. Are you worried that listnook users* will start to create and post affiliate links there was no incentive before, but now that people know this is going on they may want to break what you are trying to do and get the clicks for themselves.
-1
kakaesque Jun 7, 2016 +5
If one tries to right-click - copy such links, will that now fail to work properly (i.e. will the copied link be different from the display link)? Because that's the worst problem with similar link-rewriting in my experience, and it's why I specifically run extensions to counteract that on several sites. If this indeed breaks proper WYSIWYG link copying functionality, as I fear it will, has listnook given any thought to creating a settings preference that could allow individual users to turn this link rewriting off?
5
kmcclry Jun 7, 2016 +10
How can we verify that the redirects are not malicious? Do you anticipate a rise in malicious redirect links being posted because this policy will normalize the occurrence?
10
Mr-Yellow Jun 7, 2016 +4
*"replace affiliate links"* in preferences is poorly worded or explained, users coming along after these announcements won't have a clue what it means.
4
[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 +14
[deleted]
14
turkeypedal Jun 7, 2016 +15
Viglink is a shady organization. The fact that you apparently knew that but still did business with them is troubling. As is the fact that you keep calling these "Listnook Affiliate links" when they are Viglink, as if you're trying to hide it. I know from the Straight Dope Messsageboard that, even when you tell them not to, Viglink will take links to one site and change them to links to another site where the price is higher so they'll get a better deal. Any organization that would do that is not worth risking. There are ways to do things that are not very detectable, partnering with a shadow company. You get the info, send it off, then delete it. I am very disappointed in this. I have now decided to completely adblock Listnook until you stop trying to keep shady organizations like Viglink afloat. There are other things you could do, but you chose to make a deal with the devil.
15
[deleted] Jun 7, 2016 +10
192800996c9b
10
SgvSth Jun 7, 2016 +4
Say I make a comment that is very close or hits the comment limit. Would the feature delete the end of my comment until it is under the count or would it be prevented from doing so?
4
lakehermit Jun 7, 2016 +3
Including the opt out was a smart idea. I've been supporting the site by buying listnook gold and I'd probably stop if I couldn't turn this off.
3
iliasasdf Jun 6, 2016 -24
That's a bad idea. I'm pretty sure that most "quality" submissions are created by PR teams and individuals with monetery interests. By stripping them of the credit for the traffic, you take their jobs. How are you going to generate all that content/submissions after they're gone?
-24
starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +66
I don't think that's where most of the quality content currently comes from, but even if that's true, they're welcome to add their own affiliate link. We won't touch it.
66
iliasasdf Jun 6, 2016 +17
You're right, I didn't consider that the opt-out takes effect on submitted links as well. In that case you don't damage commercial posters. Good thinking.
17
smacksaw Jun 6, 2016 -5
This doesn't really affect many/most of us. What it affects are people who now, instead of being paid to advertise/monetise links will now be monetising product sales. "Man, I sure do love my [Windows 10 Upgrade](http://store.microsoft.com). Nevermind that I'm hired by Microsoft to tell you that, it's ok now because listnook's also getting paid!" This effectively makes using listnook as a selling platform ok. Should it be?
-5
starfishjenga Jun 6, 2016 +27
Not sure I follow how this changes anything for people trying to play the affiliate game. They were able to do this before and are still able to do this.
27
no1dead Jun 7, 2016 +2
This is a bad place to post this but edit in a eli5 saying that links which already have a affiliate code will not be touched. As it seems like alot of people are mistakingly thinking that this is happening.
2
Barology Jun 6, 2016 +6
Does checking "replace affiliate links" opt me in or out?
6
ryani Jun 7, 2016 +12
> The link displayed on hover will match the original link. This is the part of this that I like the least. I don't really mind redirects when I know they are happening, but hijacking the browser's status bar to display a link that you are actively not sending them to is evil. Does anyone know if there is a Chrome plugin that blocks this behavior without destroying legitimate javascript? Or are there other browsers that prevent linkjacking attempts?
12
[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 +9
Why are you doing this with javascript? Why don't you change the data that is displayed on the site? It seems like the javascript is going to make this less transparent.
9
ItsYaBoyChipsAhoy Jun 6, 2016 +5
no Admin tag?
5
[deleted] Jun 7, 2016 +17
[deleted]
17
NeedAGoodUsername Jun 7, 2016 +3
Just to check, for the preference option, does checking the box mean they **will** be replaced to go through Viglink or **won't**? Really glad that the listnook side opt-out thing is there.
3
JDGumby Jun 6, 2016 +17
> The redirect will be inserted by JavaScript when the user clicks the link. The link displayed on hover will match the original link. In other words, you want to hide that you're hijacking people's clicks because you **KNOW** that what you are doing is completely and utterly unethical. You should be ashamed of yourselves for ever thinking that this could considered acceptable. EDIT: And I see that Viglink are scum, requiring that you opt out through their site by letting them run scripts and set cookies. Time to find out every domain these scumbags use and block them at the hosts level. Thanks a lot, Listnook, for sinking to their level. :/
17
I_am_a_redditor_too Jun 7, 2016 +2
I like to browse listnook on my iphone via safari. Right around the time this announcement went up, I started to be redirected off of listnook and onto ad pages on different websites. Sometimes I was redirected out of safari completely and into the App Store. This would happen while clicking posts or just scrolling through listnook. Is this because of these "affiliate links?" I am not the most tech-savvy person, so I genuinely don't know.
2
zuhnj Jun 6, 2016 +14
Actually i dislike a lot of listnooks "new features", but i can definitly understand this one. And tbh. noone is losing on this one.
14
ra13 Jun 8, 2016 +2
Firstly, you've done this in a very sensitive and considerate way, taking into account all concerns from the typical (cranky) listnook user's point of view too! Respect. The fact that you've replied in detail and so informatively to a ton of important questions shows its obviously been well thought through. I support this move fully. Just hope the roll-out and UX is seamless. I guess that's what the beta is for! :) **Two things :** **1)** You've been so careful to keep the complainy users unoffended, that to an average joe reading the opening post it sounds like you're on the defensive, making the move seem a little bad. They also wont *really* know what this entails or how affiliate links work - and that they encounter them daily and it's no big deal. Even the ELI5 doesn't really explain it on a macro enough level for the people who've never heard of affiliate links before? Just pointing this out for when you do make the final big announcement. **2)** Would really appreciate your list of reasons for NOT including Amazon, if you could share those? Thanks!
2
utilitym0nster Jun 7, 2016 +5
It appears that the setting "replace affiliate links" is clicked by default. Users typically associate an affirmative command like that to mean that clicking would opt them out. But the setting is already selected - how are users supposed to make an informed choice? In the associated FAQ, opt-out instructions are "You may opt-out by toggling the 'replace all affiliate links' setting in your account preferences." It doesn't tell the user which way to toggle. How is anyone supposed to make sense of those instructions? The average user on listnook would have no idea what that means without context. No context is provided on the settings page, where the option is buried. And the average user on listnook - base of the movements to stop SOPA, end net neutrality, defeat NSA overreach, etc. - would want to opt out. In contrast, even Viglink themselves - a company which relies entirely on affiliate links! - had no problem designing exceptionally clear and simple opt out system. The toggle there is for Enable Viglink/Disable Viglink, with a clear description of what Viglink is and an additional status that shows whether or not it is disabled. Thanks earlier commenters for digging this up. https://www.viglink.com/opt-out/ ~~It's clear that listnook went out of their way to deceive users with an intentionally misleading option.~~
5
[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 +3
[removed]
3
StormShadow13 Jun 7, 2016 +2
So i'm seeing the replace affiliate links option but its not checked for me. Does that mean I am opted out or opted in?
2
BCMM Jun 6, 2016 +4
*(Reposting my question from /u/spez's AMA, since it wasn't answered there.)* > I feel like I'm missing something here: what's in it for the merchants? I mean, those links are already getting posted, and it's not Listnook admins that decide when and where they get posted. Why would they want to start paying Listnook for them? > Users will link to affiliated merchants' products, and they'll link to unaffiliated merchants' products. What is the advantage of being an affiliated merchant here? Do they get some useful statistics on what sort of people click links? Will Listnook find a way to change users behaviour so that more people post or click on affiliated links? In other words: this sounds like Viglink paying you to just do what you're already doing. What's the catch?
4
[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 +7
[deleted]
7
ListenToThatSound Jun 7, 2016 +5
>EDIT (additional FAQ 3): Can I get an ELI5? When you click on a link to some (~5k) online stores, Listnook will get a percentage of the revenue of any purchase. If you don't like this, you can opt out via the user preference labeled "replace affiliate links". Why does this require users to opt out instead of opt in? New users wouldn't even be aware of this.
5
[deleted] Jun 7, 2016 +9
Whelp time to start making an add-on to block this stupid bullshit.
9
calvers70 Jun 6, 2016 +6
Creative idea. Hope it works out well for everyone :)
6
beefsack Jun 7, 2016 +7
Why are people upvoting this? This is only a good thing for Listnook's revenue, it's not a good thing for users or functional hyperlinks.
7
manachar Jun 6, 2016 +2
If you're going to monetize content (which realistically is better than invasive ads), will the content creators eventually get a cut? Seems reasonable that the provider of that link get something in return, though it would sully the worth of any product recommendations on listnook.
2
brian21 Jun 6, 2016 +4
Thanks! This seems like an easy way to contribute to Listnook without any extra money or effort.
4
tsdguy Jun 6, 2016 +9
Your "opt-out" text is highly confusing. Is this on purpose? Enable affiliate links? Does checking this opt me in or out? Am I enabling the replacement of links with your own affiliate ones? Or not enabling? What's wrong with Replace links with Listnook affiliate links?
9
aurisor Jun 6, 2016 +25
I think I'm pretty conservative in terms of privacy and site "overreach" but this feels totally sane to me. Users can support the site just by buying things they'd buy anyways, and if people want to opt out, they can opt out. Cool!
25
TokitoLohas Jun 7, 2016 +2
Does it only rewrite urls on left click? Can I right click and open in new tab without the affiliate url? Will it break addons like Simple URL Extender?
2
[deleted] Jun 7, 2016 +3
[deleted]
3
Otadiz Jun 7, 2016 +5
I don't like this. I don't want this.
5
rydan Jun 7, 2016 +2
Well guess I won't be posting links to eBay anymore. What you are doing is extremely scummy. Good thing links to eBay are already banned in /r/eBay since they were afraid you guys would ban the sub since it constantly linked there.
2
[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 +6
What is the actual projected profit from this , and does it mean gold can be cheaper to give?
6
counterapparatus Jun 6, 2016 +3
How will revenue generated through this user created content be shared with the very users creating this content? How does this not set up an exploitative form of immaterial digital labor as a revenue model for Listnook?
3
[deleted] Jun 7, 2016 +4
> Will this work with my adblocker? Well, time to go find another plug-in that can disable this invasive tracking feature. That or I'll just right-click, copy, then paste URLs. I understand you guys need to make a buck, but letting some third party track everything users click isn't the way to do it.
4
EglinAfarce Jun 7, 2016 +3
People have a clear expectation with regard to the semantics of clicking a link. Redirecting them to a different link is sleezy. I will do everything in my power to thwart this campaign, including publishing browser extensions and ad-block filters as well as verbally trashing Listnook for sneaky practices to anyone that will listen.
3
rawling Jun 6, 2016 +73
The Listnook user agreement says > listnook is a place with many third-party hyperlinks posted by users like you. We are not responsible for the content or actions of any third party websites or services associated with posted links. You agree to take sole legal responsibility for any links you post, and neither this agreement nor our privacy policy applies to any content on other websites related to those links. You should consult the terms and privacy policies of those other websites to understand your rights. Does VL and the site VL decides to redirect us to count as being "related to" the original link and thus is it our legal responsibility or yours? Does VL lie inside or outside our user agreement and your privacy policy? If the final site behaves differently on seeing it is referred from VL, whose responsibility is that?
73
beetnemesis Jun 7, 2016 +2
Not sure how I feel about this, but reserving judgment. But kudos to all these quick responses and communications, it's gratifying to see.
2
Beard_of_Valor Jun 7, 2016 +1
I'm the kind of person who might opt out. However, similar to disabling ad blocker on my favorite web comics, I might want to schill for Listnook. If I'm planning to buy, say, a new PC on Newegg.com, would I be able to funnel the revenue to Listnook by following a redirect first?
1
[deleted] Jun 7, 2016 +2
[deleted]
2
joeasian Jun 7, 2016 +1
This is fantastic! I proposed a similar idea to /u/jedberg 5 years ago. He liked the idea and told me he would look into it. After a few months of no response [I proposed the idea to listnook](https://www.listnook.com/r/listnook.com/comments/cshom/i_have_a_simple_idea_for_listnook_to_make_money_but/). Not sure if I had anything to do with the current decision but I'm glad listnook is implementing this.
1
SupportiveCoolGuy Jun 6, 2016 +22
This is really smart and non-invasive. I really hope listnook users are able to recognize the real-world demands of running such a massive website, and see how this benefits everyone. This is a cool move.
22
shelvac2 Jun 7, 2016 +2
> **Will this work with my adblocker?** Yes, we specifically tested for this case and it should work fine. It doesn't work on my phone; I have a simple hosts file (which I commented about earlier) which blocks: 1. api.viglink.com 2. www.viglink.com 3. cdn.viglink.com 4. viglink.com Which means if I try to visit any link on that domain it errors. I'm a little dissapointed, I was assuming that by "my adblocker" you meant that you had researched and tested most adblocking methods such that it would be true for most people reading that, but it seems you missed host file blocking :( However, it does seem that uBlock will allow it (mostly guessing though since I don't actually have a link to test it with, but I am able to visit vigilink.com)
2
ZacksJerryRig Jun 7, 2016 +1
I thought normal users werent allowed to post affiliate links. Amazon ebay or otherwise. Is this not the case? Normal users affiliate link objects in comments?
1
[deleted] Jun 7, 2016 +1
Listnook should give users who post/comment a link a portion of the profits from their links.
1
alllie Jun 6, 2016 +3
So we need to copy the link and paste it into our browser ourselves. If we want to maintain our privacy? Okay, that's easy. But a link to a merchant, isn't that spam by definition?
3
phyphor Jun 7, 2016 +15
> The redirect will be inserted by JavaScript when the user clicks the link. The link displayed on hover will match the original link. Clicking will forward users through a third-party service called Viglink which will be responsible for rewriting the URL to its final destination. Modifying links on-click like this is a bad thing and I expect browsers to start clamping down on it. Further you are modifying the content that a user provides and whilst the user agreement allows you to make derivative works you are doing so **whilst having the work appear to be that of the original author**. Further to this altering of content, does this mean that the text regarding "[links and listnook](https://www.listnook.com/wiki/useragreement#wiki_links_and_listnook)" no longer applies because listnook now assumes responsibility for those lonks (having altered them)?
15
IIIpl4sm4III Jun 7, 2016 +1
why
1
RepeatingMistake Jun 7, 2016 +1
/u/starfishjenga Edit 4 says that if the feature rolls out then "you'll already be opted out," but edit 5 says that "if you do not want to participate" to uncheck the "replace affiliate links" label. So which is it? It seems as though *replacing* affiliate links would be removing any URL with Listnook affiliation in it thereby not monetizing the link, but you said to uncheck it to *not* participate?
1
rowaway232065 Jun 7, 2016 +3
Viglink domain is blacklisted by our company DNS. Soon everyone will be right-clicking in my office and that's when I'll know they're on Listnook!
3
jenesuispasbavard Jun 7, 2016 +3
Why are the users in this thread so much more willing to slide the privacy concerns this brings under the rug than in the older /r/changelog thread: https://www.listnook.com/r/changelog/comments/4ldk0r/listnook_change_affiliate_links_on_listnook/
3
[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 -85
I don't want to give Listnook money. This feels like an abuse of power.
-85
KBatWork Jun 6, 2016 +5
Hi, I just wanted to comment and say that I think this is an excellent way to do this. It is non-intrusive, but allows you to meaningfully monetize us. A+, I hope to see more plans like this as opposed to marketing *us* as the product directly.
5
Mispelling Jun 6, 2016 +22
>It’s important that Listnook become a sustainable business so that we may continue to exist. So is the gold goal we see on the sidebar not effective enough? Should it be higher? About what percent of operating costs are covered by listnook gold? And I probably already know the answer, /u/starfishjenga, but is there any plan to allow entire sublistnooks to opt out (rather than individual users)?
22
Tonamel Jun 6, 2016 +87
I don't think "replace all affiliate links" is good wording for the user prefs, since that's the opposite of what's happening (existing affiliate links are the only ones *not* being replaced). "Turn links into Listnook affiliate links" would be a lot clearer.
87
DrKronin Jun 7, 2016 +3
> "Turn links into Listnook affiliate links" would be a lot clearer. Is that what it means? I just checked my own preferences and it was checked. Would that mean that I was one of the "small percentage" of users that were chosen for the trial? /u/starfishjenga's wording suggests that the option opts-out of the program. I couldn't be more confused. The wording of the option makes no sense as an opt-out (and barely any more sense otherwise).
3
KoalaNumber3 Jun 7, 2016 +1
Although this sounds fairly reasonable, I worry that sublistnooks with more affiliate links could get prioritized over other less profitable sublistnooks (e.g when deciding which sublistnooks should be default). Will Listnook have a policy in place to prevent this from happening?
1
13steinj Jun 6, 2016 +2
Stupid question: suppose I don't opt out since I don't particularly care and want to support listnook, what happens if viglink goes down for one reason or another? Also, how does this play with listnook gold + the hide ads pref, if at all?
2
wkukinslayer Jun 7, 2016 +4
So if this is listnook's stance now, how come about a year ago there was a push to stop the use of affiliate links (adfly, etc)? /r/hitsworthturkingfor were threatened with a ban if they didn't stop using affiliate links to surveys.
4
WillRedditForBitcoin Jun 7, 2016 +2
Why not enable affiliate links for listnook ads so that I could actually buy the ads and make both listnook and myself money as an affiliate marketer. Current listnook ads policy prohibits affiliate links. A huge loss if revenue for listnook.
2
Choosynimbler Jun 7, 2016 +1
Where is the opt out exactly? I'm not ready to support a website financially that censors the way Listnook does.
1
[deleted] Jun 7, 2016 +1
[deleted]
1
usrevenge Jun 7, 2016 +2
pretty sure "c**** ass gamer" the gaming deal forum uses this. basically, if i link an item from say, best buy that forum, and maybe now listnook will take said link, add it's own affiliate code to it, and if someone buys it, listnook will get a small portion of the sale. if this is how it works, i see no issue with this. 99.9% of listnookors won't even realize it happened and it's not like the item will cost more on the user end.
2
MuseofRose Jun 7, 2016 +1
F*** this and f*** you skeeving fucks. Im opting out of this when it goes live and will be activating adblock and noscript on this. regards
1
temet_hates_slippers Jun 7, 2016 +2
Will you be selling (if not already) our browsing/clicking patterns to 3rd party consumers now that you'll have better traffic of outbound traffic metrics?
2
byllz Jun 6, 2016 +54
Isn't this kind of an abuse of the whole affiliate system? The affiliate system is there to encourage cross-site advertizing by giving credit to those who put up advertising to others sites. However, with listnook, it is the users who put up the advertizing and listnook that gets the credit. Fairness to the users aside (there might be something to be said about that, but that isn't my point), the the sellers are giving money to you for making a decision (i.e., deciding to put up a link) that you didn't actually do. Rather you are just piggybacking to get some credit for other's volunteer work. So, they are pretty much paying you for nothing. Are they fine with this?
54
Lucky75 Jun 6, 2016 +2
Does this tie a user to the click at all, in any way, shape or form?
2
Browsing_From_Work Jun 6, 2016 +33
What are you doing to make sure that this won't turn into a security issue? Modifying links as a user clicks them sounds a lot like [clickjacking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickjacking). It wouldn't take much for this link-rewriting capability to be used misused. Secondly, if a user copies one of the product links, will the affiliate value be injected into the clipboard version as well? If so, doesn't that mean that whoever the user shares the link with no longer has a method of "opting out"?
33
riscuit Jun 6, 2016 +14
It is exactly clickjacking in order to make money from their users. Copying and/or hovering the link shows a URL that is different than where the user is initially sent to when clicked.
14
[deleted] Jun 7, 2016
This comment has been overwritten by an open source script to protect this user's privacy. It was created to help protect users from doxing, stalking, and harassment.
0
midnightsmith Jun 6, 2016 +40
If I understand properly, Listnook links go to wherever the person posting linked to, however, it goes through this third party site to create a unique referral link code. Destination website sees this code from Listnook, pays Listnook a percentage of revenue based on traffic driven to the site from Listnook? Does not track me, store cookies, or in any way identify me personally, only that the traffic is coming from Listnook?
40
duckvimes_ Jun 6, 2016 +188
>The link displayed on hover **will match the original link**. Clicking will forward users through a third-party service... That's not nice. I want to know what I'm clicking on, and not worry about malware or something.
188
emanresuymsseug Jun 7, 2016 +6
> EDIT (additional FAQ 3): Can I get an ELI5? When you click on a link to some (~5k) online stores, Listnook will get a percentage of the revenue of any purchase. If you don't like this, you can opt out via the user preference labeled "replace affiliate links". Well I've gone ahead and disabled the option as I believe it will rob many small website and blog owners of their reward. Majority of affiliate programs reward the commission to the "last click" meaning that a click from Listnook will override the affiliate tracking from a previous lead on some poor guys or gals website/blog. This is a real d*** move, but perhaps this will be a wake-up call for those who run the affiliate programs to finally adopt a "first click" attribution model as standard as I'm sure they will be receiving a lot more backlash over it going forward.
6
mathyouhunt Jun 7, 2016 +6
I feel like an idiot for needing to ask, but should I check or uncheck "Replace all affiliate links" to opt-out? The FAQ says to toggle "Replace all affiliate links", but when I check my account settings, it's already toggled (checked). Is this going to be an opt-in service, or opt-out? I think this is a solid plan to monetize Listnook, but I'd prefer you just change the URL of links. I can see how that would be challenging, but I'd feel safer knowing exactly where the link is sending me. I have no trust in redirect sites, even if they state that they aren't keeping logs. Finally, is there a list of merchants/sites which will be redirected to an affiliate link, and will there be any sort of notification-on-hover (ie; when we mouseover the link to see the site, will it be a different color for affiliate links, or have any noticeable change to signal that we're clicking an affiliate link)? There are certain sites that I use to support specific content creators or websites, and I don't want those to be overwritten, so having the list (even if it's huge) would be a big help. Thanks for the hard work! Whatever your answers, I appreciate the notice.
6
sunsonic Jun 6, 2016 +26
>We’ve signed a contract with them that explicitly states they won't store user data or cookies during this process. **If no user data or cookies are stored, THEN WHY ARE LINKS BEING REDIRECTED????** You redirect a link so you can place a cookie on the user and when the user with the cookie makes a purchase, the affiliate gets credit. [Affiliate links 101: You are redirected for the exact purpose of tracking.](http://www.affiliatewiz.com/Affiliate-Marketing-Resources/affiliate-tracking-software-basics.asp)
26
cielsong Jun 7, 2016 +1
Does this affect users on mobile apps as well?
1
Anal_Superstar Jun 6, 2016 +97
Isn't this completely against [FTC guidelines](https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/ftcs-endorsement-guides-what-people-are-asking#affiliate)? Obviously IANAL, and don't know if listnook is following these guidelines to the letter, but it seems really disingenuous to get paid money off the backs of other users links without disclosing it for every instance.
97
DoctorWaluigiTime Jun 6, 2016 +65
I think it is pretty against it. > As for where to place a disclosure, the guiding principle is that it has to be clear and conspicuous. The closer it is to your recommendation, the better. Putting disclosures in obscure places – for example, buried on an ABOUT US or GENERAL INFO page, behind a poorly labeled hyperlink or in a “terms of service” agreement – isn’t good enough. Neither is placing it below your review or below the link to the online retailer so readers would have to keep scrolling after they finish reading. Consumers should be able to notice the disclosure easily. They shouldn’t have to hunt for it. And Listnook announcements don't stay on the front page long, so this doesn't really count either.
65
nova-chan64 Jun 6, 2016 +1
please use the money you get from the links to get better servers so i dont have to spend 5 minutes refreshing listnook when the servers are getting overloaded
1
[deleted] Jun 7, 2016 -3
If clicking on a link and purchasing something gives Listnook a % of that sale, I think it would be great if Listnookors had a statistic (like Karma) that said "I have helped raise $X for listnook via the internet merchant program, or IMP."
-3
devnull00 Jun 7, 2016 +13
You are now changing the links people post. Not cool at all. >The redirect will be inserted by JavaScript when the user clicks the link. The link displayed on hover will match the original link. This kind of redirect is malicious. > it will be rewritten so that you're redirected through Viglink and Listnook gets an affiliate credit for any purchase made. This should actually be illegal, this is spyware type c*** and you actually are setting it up so that users see the real link and don't realize that if they click they are redirected to a scammy 3rd party. Viglink is not an affiliate link. An affiliate link is adding something like "a=124353" to the link, while the link only goes to the store itself. Rewriting links to send you to a completely different website is insane. I hope google delists you for having fake links in all your content that are changed via javascript that google doesn't see when they cache your page. This kind of thing should be opt-in only.
13
chuck998 Jun 7, 2016 +1
Listnook is a wonderful free service. This seems like an excellent idea for monetization without a significant impact on the user experience. Thank you for the hours of entertainment you provide me each week.
1
[deleted] Jun 6, 2016 +32
Why not test this with the /r/beta subscribers only? Are you going to announce when the change occurs for the entire userbase?
32
bigjayrulez Jun 6, 2016 +42
> We’re structuring this as a test so we can better evaluate the opportunity. This quote is key. Beta testers are great for new features because they'll use/break them in ways developers never thought of. What they suck at are providing a good sample for how the average user will respond, especially at scale. A random sample of users would better show how much this program would be worth as a whole, and it looks like that's what they're trying to find.
42
mateogg Jun 6, 2016 +13
> Only a small percentage of users will experience this during the test phase, and all affected listnookors will be able to opt out via a setting in user preferences labelled “replace all affiliate links”. Will affected users be informed they are part of the test phase? And if so, will the opt-out be mentioned in the notification?
13
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