Well they're now sandwiched between two provinces that aren't time switching, so it was pretty inevitable. Peer pressure!!
235
Carbonistheft4 days ago
+38
Alberta.
We always try everything else before doing the one f****** thing that makes sense.
It's provincial tradition.
38
Haunting_Explorer3764 days ago
+3
One of us! One of us!
3
DrPCorn5 days ago
+105
As someone within the 6 or so BC towns that are getting left on Alberta time while all of BC ditches time changes, great f****** news.
105
OddDot7245 days ago
+30
As someone who routinely worked in Lloydminster, figuring out when your start time is, was a complete nightmare
30
[deleted]4 days ago
+3
[deleted]
3
DrPCorn4 days ago
+3
I’m in Golden. That hasn’t changed for us yet.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/east-kootenay-changing-clocks-pacific-time-9.7130783
3
wrendamine4 days ago
+3
I don't see a world where Alberta passes this legislation and BC gov't doesn't declare that the eastern BC MST region will be in line with Alberta time (permanent DST). Just be patient. It will happen before November and you won't have to fall back at all.
3
d00dsm00t4 days ago
-2
I would f****** riot. Stealing an hour a day of an already short enough summer.
-2
Technical_Air91144 days ago
+5
The day is the same length.
5
VanceKelley4 days ago
+3
Correct. Daylight Saving Time does not change the number of hours of daylight that occur each day.
The difference between standard time and DST is what time is shown on the clock when the sun is at its highest point of the day.
Standard = clock shows ~12pm when sun at highest point
DST = clock shows ~1pm when sun at highest point
When a human is asleep it doesn't matter much whether the sun is shining or not. So to most people who are asleep at 6am it doesn't matter whether the sun is shining then or not, but to those people who are awake at 6pm it does make a difference.
Thus for most people daylight into the evening hours (6pm and later) is valuable, while daylight in the early morning hours is not valuable. So having daylight from 6am-6pm is less desirable than having daylight from 7am to 7pm.
3
d00dsm00t4 days ago
+3
They can get me on board if they start society an hour earlier then as well.
3
Goku420overlord4 days ago
+1
So in your example we get the 7 am to 7pm or an hour later? What a win
1
VanceKelley4 days ago
+1
Yep, on the spring or fall equinox with DST the sun is up from 7am to 7pm instead of from 6am to 6pm with standard time. So DST means the sun rises and sets an hour later than it would on standard time.
Some people like the extra hour in the evening, some do not. So whether it is a win depends on someone's life circumstances.
1
thewestcoastexpress1 day ago
+1
Wait, I thought the whole province switched. Some towns stayed?
1
DrPCorn1 day ago
+2
The East Kootenays, where we are on mountain time stayed, and then the communities around the East Kootenays chose to switch. Only Golden and surrounding communities chose to stay with Alberta.
2
jaydogggg5 days ago
+51
Incredibly jealous. I have said for years in Ontario we should stop adjusting
51
wildgurularry4 days ago
+11
At least we have a law where we will automatically stop ajusting if both Quebec and New York do. To bad we are just sitting back an waiting instead of leading.
11
KhausTO4 days ago
+10
I'm guessing, this will end up Cascading across Canada now that the western half of the country has already stopped.
Doug needs some attention deflected away from the Jet, much like Danielle Smith needed to deflect attention away from her Gerrymandering plan.
10
Ian_I_An4 days ago
+4
At once it gets to St John, Victoria can introduce Daylight Savings 2, and have that cascade across Canada.
4
f00004 days ago
+22
Because of the stock market we’re tied to New York State’s changing or not changing. We already have it on the books to stop if Quebec and New York does, Quebec has it on the books to follow New York’s lead too. So blame/try to pressure New York State.
22
Comfortable_Jury3694 days ago
+7
Please do, we would love to switch!
7
Frozen51474 days ago
+5
As others have said we technically would, but we don't want to until NY and Quebec both agree to do it as well, which isn't too unreasonable I guess.
> In November 2020, the Legislative Assembly of Ontario passed Bill 214, the Time Amendment Act, 2020, which will establish year-round observation of daylight saving time. However, the act does not come into force immediately but takes effect on a day to be named by proclamation of the Ontario lieutenant governor under the advisory of the province's attorney general.[43] That is intended to avoid moving to a different time zone from the one that is used in Quebec or New York.[44]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_Canada
(Also fun fact Ontario was the first place in the world where DST was enacted)
5
brazilliandanny4 days ago
+3
Blame New York, we're waiting on them to make up their damn minds.
3
Redditisavirusiknow5 days ago
+6
Who would be against permanent summer time?
6
Newtiresaretheworst4 days ago
+4
People that work outside.
4
Redditisavirusiknow4 days ago
+4
You wouldn’t want more sun in the afternoon if you work outside? You’d rather come home in the dark?
4
Newtiresaretheworst4 days ago
+3
Work doesn’t start until the suns up. Then your 8-10 shift starts. Now I get home later and have less family time.
3
coffee_achiever4 days ago
+3
you're right. we should pass a law that it needs to be warm in winter as well. Equally as effective.
3
PhantomNomad4 days ago
+2
I'd vote for that law. So tired of -30c out here on the prairie. I'm not a climate change denier. I'm just a climate change hoper.
I know climate change is not good. And I know things have really changed since I was a kid. But there is still a small part of me that would like to live in the tropics, but not have to move to them.
2
Redditisavirusiknow4 days ago
+1
Except permanent summer time is real and gives us an extra hour of sun in the afternoon with our family.
1
WhaddaHutz4 days ago
+1
People love that part of DST, but the science and stats are overwhelmingly against it. Our bodies have evolved to wake up gradually as the sun rises, and wind down and fall asleep as the sun sets (i.e. our circadian rhythm). However, under DST, we are more likely to wake up suddenly (from an alarm) in darkness, and the extended sunlight hours delays when we fall asleep. This negatively impacts our sleep throughout DST (not just the initial clock change), and that adversely impacts our physical health, mental health, productivity, and attentiveness to things like driving. Pretty much every study has shown that any benefits of DST is outweighed by the negative impacts. Prolonged sunlight hours also has downstream effects on energy consumption, as people put their A/C's to work during hotter hours of day.
Permanent DST becomes especially bad in the winter months, when some parts may not see sunlight until as late as 8am or even 9am. That's bad for sleep, but it's also bad for pedestrians... kids in particular,; in fact that's why the US's experiment with permanent DST in the 1970s came to an end - a series of accidents involving kids resulted in public pressure against permanent DST. Then again, North America is largely desensitized to motor vehicle deaths and the US is desensitized against deaths of school children, so maybe it'd work today.
Permanent standard time is what is better for us.
1
Redditisavirusiknow4 days ago
+2
Show me the science, but make sure it’s at this latitude!
Because taking an hour of sunlight from me and my family and giving it to me for my first hour of work is torture. Horrible for mental health.
Almost no humans goes to sleep at 6pm so the circadian rhythm argument is false.
2
WhaddaHutz4 days ago
+2
> Show me the science, but make sure it’s at this latitude!
"Let me google that for you". There is a wealth of information out there if you look, including by actual academics as opposed to random listnookors, who have done their studies in various regions - including the US and Russia which have actually tested permanent DST and switched back.
> Almost no humans goes to sleep at 6pm so the circadian rhythm argument is false.
It's not about going to sleep at 6pm. As sun exposure ends (because the sun is setting/has set), your body will start winding down and eventually go to sleep - where you will fall asleep and reach a deeper, higher quality of sleep much more quickly. We don't have on/off buttons.
2
Redditisavirusiknow4 days ago
+2
Correct, and Russia is also mostly at very high altitudes. Let’s seem American studies that are not in Alaska that say what you’re saying. Who goes to bed *just after 6*.
Let’s give you the benefit of the doubt and say you get sleepy a hour later, well it’s still worth an extra hour of sun with my family after work and school. That is precious. Taking it away each year is torture. I can’t wait for us all to switch to permanent summer time. 3 provinces down, let’s keep it going?
2
WhaddaHutz3 days ago
The science is the science. Go look for it. I'm not going to argue with anecdotes and vibes. By the way, the science has concluded that the mental health benefits of DST is wiped out by the adverse sleep consequences of DST.
0
Redditisavirusiknow3 days ago
+2
I looked it up and couldn’t find any that were at our latitude and that makes all the difference
2
sth1285 days ago
+4
November is still over ten months away there's a chance we might join the club this year.
4
PprMan4 days ago
+11
It’s April already btw. Less than 7 months
11
cubenz4 days ago
+7
They were adjusting for daylight saving
7
PleasantWay74 days ago
+3
What month are you living in?
3
Dullcorgis4 days ago
+1
I'm in the US. I don't want us to stop changing at the moment because you know this administration would make it permanent winter time.
1
KhausTO4 days ago
+9
oh, here I thought you guys were trying to turn back the clocks to 1939.
9
Dullcorgis4 days ago
+3
They've already done that, that was week one.
3
yawaramin4 days ago
+7
Permanent winter time, or rather Standard Time, is actually a better choice. It's better for our health and safety because it's closer to the actual schedule of the sun and aligns with our biological clocks. It's also safer because we get more daylight especially in winter mornings and avoid accidents like sleepy drivers hitting pedestrians in the dark.
7
Knight_Machiavelli4 days ago
+2
When you're as North as Canada there is no such thing as a choice that's closer to the actual schedule of the sun. When you get 7 hours of sunlight a day there's no schedule that is going to conform to our biological clocks, so might as well take the sunlight after work instead of while we're at work.
2
Dullcorgis4 days ago
+2
It's not, though. We all hate the sunrise and sunset times in winter with a passion and everyone's life materially improves as soon as daylight savings starts.
2
yawaramin4 days ago
+3
Except for the, you know, losing an hour of sleep, blood pressure spike, tiredness, and sudden spike in car collisions during that week. But even leaving that aside, the 'improvement' from DST is mostly attributable to the longer days, which would naturally happen even without DST, just slightly slower. And on the flip side, the transition to shorter winter days would also be slower, giving us more time to adjust to it.
3
Dullcorgis4 days ago
+2
If we were on permanent daylight savings time there would be no change. Keep up.
2
yawaramin4 days ago
+3
If we were on permanent standard time there would be no change either. Keep up with yourself.
3
Dullcorgis4 days ago
+3
...and we would all be miserable for ten months of the year.
3
WhaddaHutz4 days ago
+2
Studies have shown that DST's disruption to our circadian rhythm occurs throughout our observation of DST. The initial change is bad, but, even after our body adjusts to the change, DST does not align with our circadian rhythm which leads to worse sleep quality, which then drags on our physical heath, mental health, productivity, and attentiveness.
2
Dullcorgis4 days ago
+2
I guess you live quite near an equator where you're getting a ton of daylight at reasonable hours. For people further towards the poles who work inside in winter you aren't getting any daylight at all. If daylight savings were permanent you'd get daylight at the end of the day.
2
WhaddaHutz4 days ago
+3
No, and if you look into it you'll see studies that have been conducted all over... including in regions closer to the poles. It's science.
3
Rinzack4 days ago
+1
> would make it permanent winter time.
And this is why the debate has raged for so long- Remember 3 years ago when the Senate passed an act unanimously to end the switching, only for it to die in the house? Problem was that as soon as it passed half the country was upset with which time was being switched to.
Getting rid of day light savings time is incredibly popular. Deciding on whether to keep Standard time or DST is basically a 50/50 split, hence the hold up.
1
Dullcorgis4 days ago
+1
No, getting rid of daylight savings time is NOT incredibly popular. At all.
1
Rinzack4 days ago
+2
https://yougov.com/en-us/articles/54237-the-times-they-are-a-changin-but-most-americans-would-rather-they-not
Two thirds of Americans want to get rid of the practice
2
Dullcorgis4 days ago
Oops, you linked an article that says they support my view.
>If the U.S. were to stop changing its clocks, more Americans would prefer to permanently spring forward and stay in Daylight Saving Time all year than to fall back to year-round Standard Time
0
Rinzack3 days ago
+1
"Getting rid of day light savings time is incredibly popular. Deciding on whether to keep Standard time or DST is basically a 50/50 split, hence the hold up"
I misspoke in saying daylight savings specifically and was talking about getting rid of the switch we do every year, which is what was linked in the article and what i said in the second half of the last sentence.
1
Dullcorgis3 days ago
+1
Except people want to stop switching to standard time. The exact opposite of what you want.
1
FIContractor5 days ago
+32
This means British Columbia over to Saskatchewan (maybe 40% of the width of the country?) don’t have to change their clocks. Hopefully Manitoba is next and the dominoes just keep falling so no one from coast to coast has to follow that anachronistic tradition.
32
Krigen894 days ago
+17
100% Québec will stand alone once again and continue to change time because we know better.
17
cubenz4 days ago
+9
Until Paris fixes.
9
5AlarmFirefly4 days ago
+2
I'm gonna be so f****** mad if we stop changing but stick to standard time. It's exactly the kind of thing we would do.
2
WashuOtaku4 days ago
+5
Do not forget the Yukon, they also went along with BC.
5
FIContractor4 days ago
+3
Cool, I hadn’t seen that. I would think the NWT would too now that everybody below them has.
3
WashuOtaku4 days ago
+4
Dreams come true.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/nwt-ends-daylight-saving-9.7170964](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/nwt-ends-daylight-saving-9.7170964)
4
FIContractor4 days ago
+3
Well, that was quick.
3
Infamous-Mixture-6054 days ago
+7
It will be a little different not having to change the clocks, but I am also curious to see if this will turn out like the US in the 1970s or Russia in the 2010s when they switched to DST permanently and folks wound up hating it so much during winter that they went back to the biannual switch.
7
RM_r_us4 days ago
+2
Their neighbour Saskatchewan doesn't switch. They'll be just fine. In the provincial capital (Edmonton) the sun isn't up until about 8:30am during the dead of winter.
2
Infamous-Mixture-6054 days ago
+1
I live in Edmonton. I actually don't mind the 8:30 sunrise/4:30 sunset in winter. The days are short but that's what we get for living up here.
Still, I wonder if folks will notice the change or not. People hated DST in winter in the US in the 1970s and that was at much lower latitudes than here. Russians apparently did not like DST through winter and they're at similar or higher latitudes than us.
1
MachineSpirited70855 days ago
+18
I'll believe it when they make it official. They've been "expecting" for years.
18
peepee2tiny5 days ago
+21
It's official.
we had a referendum on it a few years back and 50.2% said to continue to move clocks, so Alberta kicked the can down the road.
Now that our provincial neighbour did it, Albertan government just announced it today.
21
Then-Somewhere-74675 days ago
+12
I am totally fine with this. I hate changing the time.
12
PhantomNomad4 days ago
-3
We should all just use UTC time. Instead of starting work at 0800 MDT we would start at 1400 UTC. Why do we need to have the clock be at 1200 for the sun to be at it's highest. Why can't it be at it's highest at 1800 UTC?
-3
PleasantWay74 days ago
+6
That doesn’t work for humans, only Vulcans. Especially in a high travel world like ours, having all cultures using similar times for morning, lunch, other things helps normalize a whole lot of things. And it is really hard to rewire your brain from work being from 8-5 to being from 1-9 because we decided to use UTC.
It just isn’t practical.
6
PhantomNomad4 days ago
+1
It was kind of a joke. Only ships at sea use utc mostly. I'm a ham radio guy so I use utc a lot and you get used to it. We have a net (a bunch of us check in and talk about various stuff) that goes every day at 0100 UTC so right now that switches between 6 or 7 pm. It was easier to stop thinking about if it's 6 or 7 and just start thinking in utc all the time. A few of my clock around the house are set to utc (my wife also hates this). But it's like tv shows where they have a bank of clocks on the wall with all the different time zone, only I just have two, one local and one utc.
1
Settler424 days ago
+2
only use UTC as a reference. they mostly still operate in the timezone they are in
2
Then-Somewhere-74674 days ago
+3
I'll be happy with the current time without time change.
3
averyrdc4 days ago
+2
Because that’s stupid as hell.
2
coffee_achiever4 days ago
-13
no time change = good. 1pm = sun at peak of sky = facepalm.
-13
Then-Somewhere-74674 days ago
+1
Are you talking in riddles? Nobody has time for that, Whether you give or take an hour.
1
No-Sample-82805 days ago
+17
thank f*** we finally stopped pretending moving the clocks twice a year makes any sense.
17
Zeikos5 days ago
+2
And everybody does it in different days, not to say that the northen and southern hemisphere do it the opposite way.
I want to see the day daylight savings get abolished globally, it cannot come soon enough.
2
Important-Sign-37014 days ago
+3
its not likely going to go that way as the other provinces have decided to stay with day light savings time.
3
Dullcorgis4 days ago
+1
And I will do anything I can to fight against you. Winter is bad enough, you want to make summer like that too?
1
Zeikos4 days ago
+1
Why would it make summer bad o.O?
1
Dullcorgis4 days ago
+2
Take away an hour of sunlight in the evenings and have it get light hours before you want to be awake.
2
Zeikos4 days ago
+1
Nothing prevents you from waking up an hour earlier though?
It's what daylight savings does anyways.
There was a purpose when saving one hour of artificial lighting led to considerable savings, now leds are so efficient that it doesn't serve that purpose anymore.
1
Dullcorgis4 days ago
My sanity. Why the f*** would I wake up an hour earlier in the morning if I didn't have to?
0
Zeikos4 days ago
+1
But you wouldn't actually be waking up an hour earlier, you'd wake up at the same hour, the only change would be what hour is displayed on the clock.
1
Dullcorgis4 days ago
+1
When I don't have to be up. Even if I was up, I'm hardly going to be dancing around enjoying it, am I?
1
MaximumPepper1234 days ago
+5
Sigh... I hope all of North America can get on the same page about this. Otherwise, figuring out time zones is going to suck when computer programming.
5
shabibbles4 days ago
+11
No programmer touches time zones. You plug into a library that only a few poor miserable souls maintain and never touch it. Tom Scott made a very in-depth video about this years ago
11
bass2484 days ago
+5
Let the domino effect continue. I knew once British Columbia did it everyone else would follow. Hopefully the American House/Senate will eventually pass the sunshine protection act or something similar
5
Itisd4 days ago
+4
Can someone get Doug Ford on board to do the same? We don't need to wait for New York and Quebec, why don't we lead rather than follow for once?
4
Jonesdeclectice4 days ago
+4
Because Doug Ford’s too busy trying to figure out how to sell that private jet he bought for similar price to what he paid while avoiding all the brokerage fees. F****** dummy’s going to have cost us $10m for being a complete imbecile.
4
yawaramin4 days ago
+1
Apparently there's a law on the books that we need to wait for New York.
1
Itisd4 days ago
+2
We can change that law.
2
Lasagna_Lizard4 days ago
+2
Hooray! My province is in the news for not-soul-crushing reasons!
2
Unusual-Phase-50944 days ago
+2
I’m jealous
2
psychedelych4 days ago
+4
Please Ontario I am begging you
4
goingfullretard-orig4 days ago
+3
If any of these provinces bothered to read the science around this, they would have picked standard time, not daylight savings. But, "What do scientists know?" is a typical Alberta stance.
3
reasonably_plausible4 days ago
+7
I'm pretty sure the science is that DST and standard time both have benefits and drawbacks, but the changing of time is entirely detrimental. So there isn't a clear w***** between the two, you just need to choose one and stick with it.
Is there anything scientific, in particular, that you believe shows that standard time is the clear, superior option.
7
brazilliandanny4 days ago
+9
I really don't car about seeing the sun in the morning. I do care about the sun going down at 3:30 though.
I mean in the winter its not fully up till most people are sitting at their desks indoors anyway.
9
goingfullretard-orig4 days ago
+11
As far as I understand it, which isn't very far admittedly, it's better for our circadian rhythms to be on the standard time. It's not about our "preferences" based on our work or light biases, but about the actual rhythms of our physiology. We're hard-wired in our relationship to light.
11
brazilliandanny4 days ago
+6
I have an alarm clock that slowly lights the room so I do wake up naturally using circadian rhythms.
Regardless even with standard time, in the winter the sun is still coming up later than most people are waking up so its not helping them naturally wake. The sun going down at 4pm is making them depressed though.
6
yawaramin4 days ago
+2
People can get sunlight lamps for winter depression. In the summer, no one actually needs daylight till 9 pm. It's for the sun to set at 8 pm.
2
Dullcorgis4 days ago
+7
Exactly. I'm hardly doing a bit of gardening or a walk in the morning.
7
AFK_Tornado4 days ago
+2
In academic terms, f*** that.
In fact, move the clock forward two hours. Three! Morning bastards gonna morning whether it's light or not; give me later sunsets in winter.
2
East1st3 days ago
+2
Governments care more about consumer economics than health science. DST promotes more consumer consumption, so it’s favoured by governments.
2
BasicBlood4 days ago
+4
Love when the listnook scientists throw this one around. A bunch of studies done in California have no external validity for Canadian latitudes (if you bothered to read around science you'd know this). We don't want to exist in darkness all winter.
Username checks out I guess though.
4
[deleted]4 days ago
+2
[deleted]
2
RM_r_us4 days ago
Dude, the sun is down at 3:30ish in Edmonton in the winter. People are still at work, not drinking on the patio or watching tv.
Tell me you you've never been to Alberta, without actually saying you've never been. Yeesh.
0
Potential-Bee38664 days ago
+1
Nice. Wish America would follow suit..
1
Goku420overlord4 days ago
+1
About f****** time. And we got fluoride back recently. If the cons get booted it would be a triple win
1
TurbulentSurvey46491 day ago
Kids will wait for the bus now at 7:15 is total darkness in the winter’s coldest time with the sun only rising at 9:45. That sounds amazing and safe, not.
0
YqlUrbanist5 days ago
-3
They picked the wrong option but at least we don't have to keep changing our clocks. I'd accept just about any time zone as long as we stick to it.
-3
Redditisavirusiknow4 days ago
+24
Permanent summer time is the correct choice. Imagine what kind of crazy person would rather an hour of sun during a morning commute instead of an hour of sun with your family outside after school?
24
YqlUrbanist4 days ago
+5
This may be a shock but different people have different schedules. There is a consensus among researchers that standard time is better for our sleep quality overall.
That being said, the harm of switching is far worse than the harm of being one hour off from the optimal time. This is still a win.
5
Redditisavirusiknow4 days ago
+4
Well for us with kids, it’s absolutely better to have an hour of playtime with them in the afternoon outside, than making my first hour at work sunny. Sleep is only affected at high latitudes, like the UK or maybe very northern Alberta.
4
YqlUrbanist4 days ago
+1
Damn, it's crazy that all these researchers have investigated this when they could have just asked a random parent on listnook to tell them the right answer based on vibes. Seems really inefficient.
1
KhausTO4 days ago
+4
Every single one of these "Standard time is better" studies I've seen fails to account for the fact that real life exists and that people, especially in Canada in the winter, are at work and/or school by the time the sun comes up in the morning regardless of what version of a timezone we live in.
So yes, in a pure theoretical perfect world getting the sunlight in the morning is better. But in the actual world, where everyone who goes outside and touches grass, and has to be at a job or at school before the suns even up anyway. It's actually better in the evening.
Sometimes people can be book-smart, but it's the street-smart people who actually get how real life works.
Not to mention, the benefits are so marginally better one or the other that the only place it actually makes a meaningful difference is for people making the argument that it's better on paper. Because again, the real-world doesn't always mimic theoretical proof.
4
Redditisavirusiknow4 days ago
+2
Correct, a lot of studies are done in England too which is weirdly much higher in latitude than almost everyone in Canada
2
Yarhj4 days ago
+2
I'm not an expert in this area, but based on a limited review of the research in favor of standard time, it's not really all that convincing. The studies that people most often point to make some significant assumptions about the way people live their lives that I don't really think are fully supported. The ones I've seen typically assume that people go to bed at 10, get up at 7, and have sunlight both before *and after* work.
With permanent standard time you make the trade that during winter there will be more sunlight for more people in the morning in exchange for very little or no sunlight in the evening.
The key argument in favor permanent ST is that morning sun helps reset the circadian rhythm, whereas evening sun disrupts it, and I have no reason to dispute this.
What the studies typically fail to account for in any way is the impact of zero or little sunlight in the evening. They go into great detail about the possible mental health effects of disrupted sleep due to the lack of morning sun, but completely ignore the mental health and fitness effects of having no sunlight in the evenings (e.g. increased mental health issues, increases in sedentary behavior since outdoor activities are less viable, disruption to sleep schedule due to lack of sunlight in the evenings, and so on).
I think the studies do a solid job of explaining and capturing the benefits of permanent standard time, but a fairly poor job of accounting for the benefits of permanent summer/daylight time.
Will any of that meaningfully change the conclusions? I have no idea. But it feels like the research is all fairly synthetic and one-sided in this regard.
Anecdotally, going to the work in the dark feels fine, whereas leaving work in the dark feels depressing as f***.
Perhaps someone with more familiarity with the research in this area can comment and shed some more light on this.
2
yawaramin4 days ago
+3
Switching to permanent standard time wouldn't make you any worse off than you are already in winter–winter time is already standard time. It would give you more morning light in the summers and slightly less evening light, which is absolutely fine. Who actually needs daylight until 9 pm? Outside the tourism lobby, literally no one.
3
Yarhj4 days ago
+1
Switching to permanent standard time wouldn't make winter suck any more than it already does, but it would make summer suck more. Switching to permanent daylight/summer time would make winter suck less and wouldn't make summer suck more. One of these is the clear w***** for me.
I personally *like* having sun til 9, because by the time I get home and have dinner, it's already around 7:30PM. *With* Daylight/summer time the latest the sun sets around here is around 8:30PM, and I get to see the sun during hours I can actually enjoy it for about 5 months a year. On permanent standard time I'd *never* have sun during time I could actually use it.
Likewise, on permanent standard time I'd be leaving work in the dark for 6 months out of the year, so basically for half the year I'd never see the sun outside my commute to work. On permanent summer time I'd never have to leave work in the dark. Leaving work in the dark is really depressing for me, in a way that heading *to* work in the dark is not, but I get that not everyone feels the same.
I get that not everyone has the same situation, and that people place different value on morning sun vs. evening sun, but for me permanent standard time would be a big downgrade.
1
coffee_achiever4 days ago
-1
The sun doesn't change. All that changes is your perception of what 8am vs 9 am means to different groups of people.
-1
Redditisavirusiknow4 days ago
+5
False. Work and school start at a fixed time, so the having permanent summer time would be very beneficial for almost everyone.
5
[deleted]4 days ago
[deleted]
0
Redditisavirusiknow4 days ago
+1
Wait not so permanent summer time?
1
Icy_Walrus_50354 days ago
Someone who has a normal circadian rhythm…
0
MaggotMinded4 days ago
-5
Yeah, until winter rolls around and you’ve got kids walking to school in the dark.
-5
KhausTO4 days ago
+4
they do right now in the winter anyway.
4
Dullcorgis4 days ago
+8
Or walking home in the dark. You aren't changing the number of hours of daylight, you are shifting them to when they are useful.
8
MaggotMinded4 days ago
+1
Depending on grade level, school usually lets out sometime between 2:30-4:00pm. Even in Winter, it’s not dark yet at that time. So no, you wouldn’t have kids walking home in the dark with or without daylight savings.
1
Dullcorgis4 days ago
+5
Your kids don't have afterschool? And yes it's getting dark at 4
5
MaggotMinded4 days ago
+2
Unless you live in Yukon or something, the sun does not set at 4pm even on the shortest day of the year. And the kids whose safety would be of greatest concern would be the younger ones anyway, and they are usually let out much earlier than that.
All in all, only a portion of schoolchildren are staying after school long enough for it to get dark in the Winter, but virtually *all* schoolchildren go to school at the same time in the morning, so you can try to spin it all you want, but there’s no escaping the fact that kids will be spending more time commuting in the dark if clocks are not turned back in the Fall.
2
Redditisavirusiknow4 days ago
+1
This could not be more wrong, keeping daylight savings during fall gives you months of days with one more hour of sunlight per day with your kids afterschool.
Who cares if the first hour of work is sunny, isn’t it better to have sun when your family is home after work and school?
1
yawaramin4 days ago
+3
> isn’t it better to have sun when your family is home after work and school?
Not really, because the family is home after work and school. Why do you need daylight till like 9 pm when you're home?
3
MaggotMinded4 days ago
+3
Well now you’re moving the goalposts. I specifically mentioned that kids would have to walk to school in the dark, and you replied that they would have to walk home in the dark instead. I refuted that, and now you’re talking about time spent at home *after* they’re home from school. So no, I’m not wrong; you’re just talking about something else entirely.
I can’t speak to anyone’s priorities but my own. If you’d rather have the extra daylight in the afternoon/evening, then fine. But when it comes to the windows of time during which kids commute to and from school — i.e. what I was talking about in the first place — it will absolutely be darker overall.
Edit: Just noticed you’re not the same person who replied to me initially. Still, my point stands.
3
Redditisavirusiknow4 days ago
You might have me confused with another poster, I never spoke about kids walking to school in the morning
Shifting an hour later where I am would mean a sunny walk home for my kid in winter. So that’s good.
0
Dullcorgis4 days ago
It is quite dark before the sun sets. Look around you sometimes.
0
MaggotMinded4 days ago
+3
Dude, it is not dark at 4pm throughout the vast majority of the Winter, plus you’re ignoring the fact that the youngest kids are out of school much earlier than that. Give it up already.
3
Dullcorgis4 days ago
The youngest kids start school the latest and they stay for after school.
0
Redditisavirusiknow4 days ago
+4
So you want permanent daylight savings time, great we agree
4
MaggotMinded4 days ago
+3
Umm, no.
In Spring we turn the clocks forward. In Fall we turn them back.
If we had “permanent summer time” as you suggested, that means we would turn the clocks forward in the Spring and then leave them that way forever. Which means that come Winter, instead of the sun rising between 7:30-8:00am, it won’t rise until 8:30-9:00am.
3
brazilliandanny4 days ago
+8
Would rather have the sun at 5pm when my day is over than 8:30 when I'm about to sit indoors for 8 hours.
8
Ted_Striker15 days ago
-7
Have fun with the sun rising between 9:00 AM - 9:50 AM in winter. Kids would be going to school in the dark.
EDIT: Apparently they already go to school in the dark up there. So for them it makes no morning difference. For me where I live it would make a large difference.
-7
Signal_Flight_72625 days ago
+24
Even with the time change its dark when going to work anyways in the winter. No real difference.
24
BangerSlapper15 days ago
+13
Yes, but it’s a matter of which hour it’s more valuable to have the sunlight, even if just on an emotional or psychological level.
I would imagine for most people it’s the afterschool/work hours.
13
Konker1015 days ago
+1
DST was just a WW1 tactic to conserve fuel. We dont need to do that anymore and it should have been rid 70 years ago.
1
Ted_Striker14 days ago
+1
It's more than just an outdated tactic now. Where I live it means we don't have to deal with the sun rising at 4:30 AM in the summer and setting at 8:00 PM (if DLS was abolished), and in winter it means the kids don't go to school and people don't go to work in the dark (if DLS was made permanent).
So it entirely depends on where you live.
1
kileek5 days ago
+37
At least it won’t be dark at 4:00pm.
37
geoken5 days ago
+34
I’m in Ontario, but having the sun rise after I’m already at work is worth it to not be leaving work in darkness.
It’s a tradeoff on one end or the other. I think most are happy to take the extra sun after they finish work.
34
Ted_Striker15 days ago
-6
I don't like the idea of the kids going to school in the dark. Maybe they already do up in Alberta though?
-6
Signal_Flight_72625 days ago
+19
Even with the time change we went to school in the dark. In Alberta and BC.
19
DWKM5 days ago
+10
Can confirm, I went to school when it was dark
10
iamnos5 days ago
+3
If the sun isn't rising until 9:50, then even changing means it'd be at 8:50. Most elementary schools start school at 8:00 or 8:30.
3
Ted_Striker14 days ago
I read sunrise in Alberta is between 8:00 AM and 8:50 AM, and that is standard time. If the clocks were permanently set forward an hour it would be 9:00 AM - 9:50 AM.
I guess it doesn't matter if the kids are already going to school in the dark though.
I live a lot further south where in the winter the kids are going to school in the daylight, but if they made daylight savings permanent it would shift it to where they would be going in the dark and I consider that a safety risk.
0
iamnos4 days ago
+2
Lots of kids in Alberta already go to school in the dark. It may expand the number of kids exposed to the risk, but it's not a net new risk.
2
wineandchocolatecake5 days ago
+1
I remember sitting in class in elementary school when it was still dark out. (I’m Canadian.)
1
VonDingwell5 days ago
+1
Yes, doesnt matter. Especially for Edmonton north.
For someone who has lived his whole life north of the 54-55 latitude dst made little difference.
Time shift was only brought in during WWI to help save on coal. First the Germans and Austrias.
Didnt truly gain traction till WWII, once again energy conservation.
1
Ted_Striker14 days ago
+1
Here where I live, considerably further south, it makes a big difference. Here the kids go to school in the daylight in the winter, but if they made daylight savings permanent they'd suddenly be going to school in the dark. I consider that a safety risk. Don't like the idea of it. I love the idea of more daylight in the afternoon but not at the expense of the kids going to school in the dark.
1
geoken4 days ago
+1
Growing up, we played street hockey until it was dark (of course we had to play near a street light).
It’s just another tradeoff. Kids aren’t going to school in the dark - but if it gets dark at 4:27, kids are playing after school in the dark.
When there’s less than 8 hours of sun - one side of your day is going to need to be bookended by darkness.
1
North_Activist5 days ago
+7
You can actually enjoy and have fun in the winter with your 5:30pm sunsets, unlike it is now.
7
Forum_Browser5 days ago
+9
I'm looking forward to it because it means the sun won't be setting at 4:00 ever again. I won't be arriving home after work in the pitch black.
9
Redditisavirusiknow5 days ago
+4
But you get an extra hour of sun in the afternoon with your family? Sign me up!!
4
Dullcorgis4 days ago
+2
Better than having it set at 3pm
2
KombaynNikoladze20025 days ago
People who love DLS don't seem to get this.
0
mrRobertman4 days ago
+4
You act like no one has tried permanent DST before. Saskatchewan has been on permanent DST since the 60s. Parts of BC since the 70s. Yukon since 2020. They all seem pretty fine with DST.
4
Spave4 days ago
+1
Technically Saskatchewan is on permanent standard time but is the timezone ahead of Alberta.
1
mrRobertman4 days ago
+2
Yes, but only really on a technicality. While Saskatchewan uses CST, they geographically should be using MST, which is why I said they are on permanent DST (as MDT is the same as CST).
2
Funicularly4 days ago
+5
Get what? Having an extra hour of sunlight after school or work? Sign me up!
5
Redditisavirusiknow4 days ago
+5
I love daylight savings time! Trade an hour of darkness in my morning commute for an hour of sun with my family after school? That’s amazing!!
Time outside with my 4 year old matters more than a morning commute lol.
5
Ted_Striker14 days ago
+1
I'm learning that it depends on how far north you live. Up in Alberta they're going to school and work in the dark no matter what so yeah an extra hour of daylight in the afternoon is great.
For me living in the mid Atlantic region an extra hour of daylight in the afternoon means the sunrise has shifted to after school and work start which would drive me bonkers and I think cause a lot of safety issues with the kids.
In my region the sun rises between around 6:40 AM - 7:30 AM in winter (and it's not 7:30 here) so a permanent DLS shifts that to 7:40 AM - 8:30 AM and suddenly we are going to school and work in the dark. No thank you.
1
KombaynNikoladze20024 days ago
+2
Yeah, I'm even further south than you, I get where you're coming from.
2
Dullcorgis4 days ago
That sunlight when you can use it is nice?
0
DODGEDEEZNUTZ5 days ago
It will be worth being able to be outside while the sun is out. As it stands currently it rises while most people are at work, and then sets as they leave work.
0
PensilEraser5 days ago
-3
eli5, As someone from another country not using dst, why not reschedule/shift everyone to work like an hr before or after and keep the official time in sync with the world? Especially if the dst move is permanent.
-3
BangerSlapper15 days ago
+7
Because it’s easier to shift time than to shift the lives of millions of people?
7
Krigen894 days ago
+6
In reality it's the same.
6
MattGeddon5 days ago
+1
Because changing the clocks twice a year is much easier and less confusing.
1
Macdaddy3574 days ago
-8
With really late sunrise in the winter, they will quickly regret it.
-8
Much-Neighborhood1714 days ago
+8
It's winter, the sun already rises late with standard time. Going from sunrise occurring when I arrive at work to an hour into my shift doesn't really bother me. Watching the sun set just as work ends is absolutely terrible and I will enjoy having at least some sunlight after work in the winter.
8
Dullcorgis4 days ago
+3
What's the difference if I'm at work?
3
MaggotMinded4 days ago
-2
Yep. This has been tried before in various places throughout the world and it usually ends with people being upset that it’s still dark out when their kids are going to school in the winter.
I live in British Columbia, where they just announced that we won’t be doing daylight savings anymore. I’m looking forward to watching in real time as the reality sets in for people who advocated for this. Plus, I work for a global company with offices in several different timezones, so I’m also kind of annoyed that it’s going to make keeping track of time differences even more complicated.
-2
WardenEdgewise4 days ago
-4
So, everyone is switching one time zone to the east? BC is on permanent UTC-7 (Mountain Standard Time) and now Alberta will be on permanent Central Standard Time (UTC-6)
People are going to hate it in the winter. It won’t get light out until 9:00 in the morning.
-4
Madman2004 days ago
+11
That’s fine by me, we get the same amount of sunlight either way, would much rather shift it more towards the side that I am off work as opposed to the side where I am getting ready for work.
I never notice when the sun rises in the morning, but goddamn if I don’t notice when the sun sets at 4:30 in the afternoon.
11
KhausTO4 days ago
+4
The most enjoyable period of time in my life was when I was physically in Alberta and essentially operating as if I was in Ontario (I was working Ontario hours remotely to match the rest of my team). So working from 7AM-3PM
In the winter it was dark either way when I started my day. And when I was done work at 5PM Eastern, (3PM in Alberta) I had a couple hours after work to go outside.
Now I'm working normal Alberta time, and wrap up my day at 5PM, and it's already been dark for a half hour on the shortest days. And guess what? It was still dark when I started working anyway. So I sat in my office during the entire daylight period. At least now, I'll have an hour-ish after work for some sunlight outdoors before it gets dark.
tldr, I've already lived this. It's fantastic.
4
Dullcorgis4 days ago
+1
So you get to feel smug about being up so early it's still dark, and when you leave work and it's still light you don't feel so horribly depressed.
192 Comments