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Announcements Jun 3, 2016 at 7:03 PM

AMA about my darkest secrets

Posted by spez


Hi All, We haven’t done one of these in a little while, and I thought it would be a good time to catch up. We’ve launched a [bunch of stuff](https://www.listnook.com/r/changelog) recently, and we’re hard at work on lots more: m.listnook.com improvements, the next versions of Listnook for iOS and Android, moderator mail, relevancy experiments (lots of [little tests](https://www.listnook.com/r/changelog/comments/4jzit9/listnook_change_several_small_tests_to_improve_user/) to improve experience), account take-over prevention, technology improvements so we can move faster, and–of course–hiring. I’ve got a couple hours, so, ask me anything! Steve edit: Thanks for the questions! I'm stepping away for a bit. I'll check back later.

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IT_guys_rule Jun 3, 2016 +2173
Okay here's a dark secret question: Can Super Mods and Admins see user's IP addresses if they have multiple accounts? Can you see the main account of a throwaway? Edit: I don't know what a super mod is either guys, I just figured there were Mods then there were MODS!!!
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spez Jun 3, 2016 +2579
Yes, but we throw away IPs after 100 days. > Can you see the main account of a throwaway? Sort of. No one's looking. If they happen to share an IP, it's possible, but many IPs, for example at a college, have many hundreds of accounts on them. edit: I should clarify. There is no such thing as a "super mod," and only select Listnook employees have access to IPs.
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HenryCorpIncLLC Jun 5, 2016 +46
> There is no such thing as a "super mod," /u/HenryCorp begs to differ; just look at the list of subs the guy mods: /r/AcademicScience, /r/ACCE, /r/agrichemical, /r/agrochemicals, /r/agrochemistry, /r/agroscience, /r/Alec, /r/ALECfaiL, /r/AmericanBS, /r/AmyHarmon, /r/AntiGMOs, /r/AntiMonsanto, /r/antiOrganic, /r/AustinMinnesota, /r/AustinMN, /r/BadGMO, /r/banit, /r/BernieBias, /r/BernieLies, /r/bioengineered, /r/biofortification, /r/BioSci, /r/bioscience, /r/biosecure, /r/biosecurity, /r/bioterrorists, /r/bluedogs, /r/BruceChassy, /r/BruceMassy, /r/CalestousJuma, /r/CollegeDemocrats, /r/ConflictOfInterest, /r/ConflictsOfInterest, /r/conned, /r/contamination, /r/conventional, /r/ConventionalFood, /r/CRISPR_GMO, /r/Crops, /r/CSAG, /r/DemocratsUnbiased, /r/Dicamba, /r/Dinkytown, /r/DumbshitsWithGuns, /r/dumpGMO, /r/DuPont, /r/eat_GMO, /r/eat_organic, /r/ecoefficient, /r/EndGMO, /r/endGMOs, /r/EstablishmentDemocrat, /r/evolutionListnook, /r/ExtremeGuns, /r/FakeGMO, /r/FamilyFarm, /r/FamilyFarms, /r/farmerPICS, /r/FarmPICS, /r/favoritism, /r/FoodEng, /r/FoodMyth, /r/FoodMyths, /r/FoodTech, /r/FULLofBS, /r/FullOfBullshit, /r/GaryRuskin, /r/GEfree, /r/GeneEditing, /r/GeneticallyAltered, /r/GeneticallyEngineered, /r/GeneticContamination, /r/GeneticModification, /r/GettingShotIsCool, /r/glyphosate, /r/GMObrain, /r/GMObugs, /r/GMOcancer, /r/GMOcirclejerk, /r/GMOcontamination, /r/GMOdeaths, /r/GMOenvironment, /r/GMOevidence, /r/GMOexpert, /r/GMOexperts, /r/GMOfact, /r/GMOfactsheet, /r/GMOfaiL, /r/GMOfakes, /r/GMOfakescience, /r/GMOfarm, /r/GMOfarming, /r/GMOfarms, /r/GMOfree, /r/GMO_free, /r/GMOFUD, /r/GMOgoldenRice, /r/GMOhealth, /r/GMOinfo, /r/GMOkills, /r/GMOliars, /r/GMOmyth, /r/gmOO, /r/GMOpics, /r/GMOlistnook, /r/GMOscience, /r/GMOseed, /r/GMOseeds, /r/GMOsEnvironment, /r/GMOsFact, /r/GMOsFacts, /r/GMOsHealth, /r/GMOsMyth, /r/GMOtech, /r/GMOwatch, /r/GMOwoo, /r/GovernmentHate, /r/GunAreCool, /r/GunBooBoo, /r/GunBooBoos, /r/GunExtremism, /r/GunExtremists, /r/GunIsCool, /r/GunMassacres, /r/GunOops, /r/GunsAreCool, /r/GunsArePatriotic, /r/GunsAreSmart, /r/GunScience, /r/GunsCool, /r/GunShows, /r/GunShowsAreCool, /r/GunsIsCool, /r/GunsKillFamily, /r/headlinenazis, /r/HenryCorpIncLLC, /r/HillaryForVP, /r/ICRMI, /r/IheartGMO, /r/impoliteconversation, /r/ismfree, /r/JonEntine, /r/KeithKloor, /r/KevinFolta, /r/labelGMO, /r/marginalized, /r/massacres, /r/MassShooterTracker, /r/MassShooting, /r/MathFaiL, /r/MightyProgressives, /r/Minnasota, /r/MN_Minnesota, /r/Monsanto, /r/MonsantoFree, /r/Monsato, /r/NFIB, /r/NoGMOs, /r/nonism, /r/nonist, /r/nonists, /r/NotAnAd, /r/NoTrueProgressive, /r/NotSouthPark, /r/OccupyHomes, /r/organicPICS, /r/organism, /r/organisms, /r/Osseo, /r/OwenPaterson, /r/parked, /r/PeterWbPhillips, /r/plutocrat, /r/plutocrats, /r/PresidentCandidates, /r/PresidentElizabeth, /r/PresidentHillary, /r/PresidentWarren, /r/progs, /r/RealityHasaBernieBias, /r/RealProgressive, /r/RightToKnow, /r/RunWarrenRun, /r/scienceFAIL, /r/SlowProgressive, /r/SpammedDomains, /r/SpecialInterests, /r/Sustainable, /r/sustains, /r/Syngenta, /r/TamarHaspel, /r/TaxDollars, /r/TC_MN, /r/teflon, /r/TeflonNation, /r/transgenetic, /r/transgenetics, /r/transgenic, /r/transgenics, /r/TriggersAreCool, /r/TrueGMO, /r/TrueOrganic, /r/truePR, /r/TrueProgressive, /r/TrueProgressives, /r/TrueSouthPark, /r/TwinCities_MN, /r/UnderTheTable, /r/unsustainable, /r/uspolitics, /r/VicePresidentHillary, /r/VikingsTVseries, /r/VillagesForSanders, /r/wargas, /r/Wargasm, /r/WeThe99, /r/WhiteButtonMushrooms
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BlatantConservative Jun 3, 2016 +724
If there was a serious crime (terrorism, child p***, etc) and LEOs asked you to compre IPs of throwaways and main accounts, would you be able to make that connection? (To clarify, Im not asking if its possible, Im asking if Listnook will give that info to LEOs)
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IT_guys_rule Jun 3, 2016 +173
I appreciate you taking the time to answer this. I'm certain many people would like to know the limits of their privacy, especially the people that share things they may be embarrassed about.
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +16
I can answer that for you - per Listnook's privacy policy, they store indefinitely (and therefore can access if they want to) the IP that was used to make every account. So if you used the same IP to make all your accounts, linking them together would be relatively trivial. Aside from that they store IPs for an undisclosed amount of time, so again, linking things together is probably pretty trivial provided you logged into said accounts recently from the same IP. "Main" account is somewhat ambiguous but if they've linked accounts based on IP they could look at which account as the most activity. You should assume they are doing this. Edit: Mods should not be able to do this, but admins unquestionably could.
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MisterWoodhouse Jun 3, 2016 +32
> Admins see user's IP addresses if they have multiple accounts? Can you see the main account of a throwaway? Yes. There is no super mod rank though. You have to be an admin to be allowed access to that sort of sensitive information.
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +4975
Why are power mods still allowed, you know the ones, they lord over 100-300 subs squatting and waiting for them to become relevant...and then they promptly treat listnookors like garbage? Visit /r/MakingAMurderer sometime, one just absolutely destroyed it. They all had to flee to another sub /r/TickTockManitowoc. (Another example reached the [front page](https://www.listnook.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/4m8kii/the_inmates_are_truly_running_the_asylum/) yesterday.) This is an all too common practice and I don't understand why this type of behavior is allowed? Why are we allowing power mods to exist? Edit: Hey Spez, [look](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/4megfw/ama_about_my_darkest_secrets/d3uw68h), one of the very I guys I was talking about turned up. Here's your chance to see for yourself and give us some sort of answer on the issue.
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srnull Jun 3, 2016 +698
> they all had to flee to another sub /r/TickTockManitowoc Man, I dislike this aspect of listnook. Spinning up alternative sublistnooks is great, but how is anyone supposed to know to go to /r/TickTockManitowoc without being told about it?
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +325
Yeah that's part of the problem, because when doing a google search, the other sub is going to come up and that pretty much makes it the default sub on the subject matter....so we're essentially attracting people to Listnook default subs where an a****** reigns and deletes information, they'll never know about the other subs that popped up as a result to curb that kind of behavior ....it just doesn't make sense for Listnook to run this way.
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unusually_specific Jun 3, 2016 +11
I was completely unaware that r/TickTockManitowoc existed until reading this. I had wondered what happened to r/makingamurderer, but didn't know why, so I just stopped going there. This clears things up quite a bit.
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spez Jun 3, 2016 +1934
This is a tricky one. The problems we see are a result of a couple of decisions we made a long time ago, not understanding their longterm consequences: simplistic moderator hierarchy and valuable real-estate in r/ urls. Unwinding these decisions requires a lot of thought and finesse. Listnook wouldn't exist as it does today without the good moderators, and we need to be very careful to continue to empower them while filtering out the bad actors. I'd like to be more specific–our thinking is more specific–but we're not ready to share anything just yet.
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +4777
Just pointing out this particular issue to you, actually got me banned by the very individual i was describing as being abusive: >You've been banned from participating in /r/MakingaMurderer sublistnook message via /r/MakingaMurderer[M] sent just now You have been banned from participating in /r/MakingaMurderer. You can still view and subscribe to /r/MakingaMurderer, but you won't be able to post or comment. Note from the moderators: Calling for harassment of mods If you have a question regarding your ban, you can contact the moderator team for /r/MakingaMurderer by replying to this message. Reminder from the Listnook staff: If you use another account to circumvent this sublistnook ban, that will be considered a violation of the Content Policy and can result in your account being suspended from the site as a whole.
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bullintheheather Jun 3, 2016 +195
> You've been double banned from participating in /r/MakingaMurderer sublistnook message via /r/MakingaMurderer[M] sent just now You have been double banned from participating in /r/MakingaMurderer. You can still view and subscribe to /r/MakingaMurderer, but you won't be able to post or comment. Note from the moderators: Revealing the mods stupidity to listnook as a whole If you have a question regarding your double ban, you can contact the moderator team for /r/MakingaMurderer by replying to this message. Reminder from the Listnook staff: If you use another account to circumvent this sublistnook double ban, that will be considered a violation of the Content Policy and can result in your account being suspended from the site as a whole.
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Suckonmyfatvagina Jun 4, 2016 +24
> You've been tripple banned from participating in /r/MakingaMurderer sublistnook message via /r/MakingaMurderer[M] sent just now You have been double banned from participating in /r/MakingaMurderer. You can still view and subscribe to /r/MakingaMurderer, but you won't be able to post or comment. Note from the moderators: Revealing the mods stupidity to listnook as a whole If you have a question regarding your double ban, you can contact the moderator team for /r/MakingaMurderer by replying to this message. Reminder from the Listnook staff: If you use another account to circumvent this sublistnook double ban, that will be considered a violation of the Content Policy
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +105
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Minerva8918 Jun 3, 2016 +93
The mod was also reporting active users that he apparently didn't like to /r/spam, banned people for mentioning /r/TickTockManitowoc, and other things that one shouldn't be banned for.
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Jmystery1 Jun 3, 2016 +37
Yes I got banned from him spam think was telling people we moved to ticktockmanitowoc with the link. We were just told only discuss movie no transcripts ETC. So we are way past that can't even post and discuss Zellner's tweets. Users were like where is everybody and you give our new sub link to ticktockmanitowoc and he bans you. He has gone mad. If there was a problem with the name Making A Murderer maybe could of just changed subs name with all the same users. It is common sense. This sub is huge and to just come in to destroy makes no sense! Why?
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mistakenotmy Jun 3, 2016 +16
I was wondering WTF happened. I only browse around that sub every once and a while and everything was different the last time. Will check out the new sub.
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ChurchOfJamesCameron Jun 3, 2016 +44
I want to be banned, too! Me, me, me! Me next! It doesn't make sense to me why these people don't realize they're bridge trolls. How can you live a life full of contradictions and not confuse yourself at every turn?
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RSVive Jun 3, 2016 +1907
I think there was a misunderstanding, this sounds like a good mod to me. I mean, he's helping you by proving your point! How nice is that?
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +664
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LAcycling Jun 3, 2016 +356
This is like some Saudia Arabia meets Tumblr in action level shit. Go ahead, ban me too mister Power Mod! I upvoted /u/ProfoundlyProfound's comments, so by association I must be "calling for harassment of [one particular] mod"
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +206
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +530
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ansible Jun 3, 2016 +42
> There used to be a user ("ModwithoutModem", I think his name was) that I would see on like 50% of all sublistnooks I've ever visited. He had hundreds-to-thousands of sublistnooks under him. I'm a mod for one medium-traffic sub, and a few more low-traffic ones. I suppose it's because I have a day job, but keeping up with what I've got is already the limit for me. Other than Internet prestige, what's the point in being a mod of even more than one high-traffic sub? I like the idea of moderator points, and I'd argue it should be retroactive too. If you don't have time to pay at least a little attention to your subs, you don't deserve to be a mod for them. I'm not out to "win" the Internet by accumulating lots of Internet points, I'm trying to improve the level of conversation, and help people.
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +16
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Yorn2 Jun 3, 2016 +20
> I got shadowbanned by an admin a couple years ago just because he so happened to be a moderator of a sublistnook as well and was clearly not in a good mood. I swear this happened to my first account, is there a way to prove this though?
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +28
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JaguarGator9 Jun 3, 2016 +189
I'll link this question directly to you, just in case it got buried earlier: > Do you have any plans to revise the sublistnook request function? Right now, I'm trying to get a sublistnook that was created after my name (/r/JaguarGator9) and was created by /u/Ragwort, who created the sublistnook 5 months ago and has done absolutely nothing with it. It should be noted that Ragwort has created over 800+ sublistnooks named after other Listnookors that he has done nothing with. > However, because he's technically active, the request by the bot was denied. > Any plans to change this so that it requires that a mod be active on that particular sublistnook in 30 days, and not just on Listnook? Thanks again.
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sozcaps Jun 3, 2016 +43
> 800+ sublistnooks Very close to 900 subs, and the guy seems to be doing nothing but trolling and shitposting. How the hell is *he* not shadowbanned...
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DenebVegaAltair Jun 3, 2016 +700
What about people like /u/Ragwort who is an obvious squatter and sits on hundreds of sublistnooks of people's usernames without doing anything with them? /r/listnookrequest doesn't work for any user who may wish to gain control of their own username sublistnook because he objects to any attempt to reclaim them. He very clearly doesn't do any good for anyone and yet listnook doesn't do anything about it.
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JaguarGator9 Jun 3, 2016 +276
I'm in that position right now. I submit lots of content to /r/nfl and want to use /r/JaguarGator9 to put it in one centralized location (as well as add Weird Stat Threads for other events, since those are incredibly popular on /r/nfl). But /u/Ragwort took that sublistnook 5 months ago, has done nothing with it, and I'm currently fighting to get it back. EDIT: For those curious, I'm not backing down from this without a fight. Ragwort may have done this to the other users who tried to get their sublistnooks, but he's not going to do it to me. And for those who want to know what a Weird Stat Thread looks like (and there'd be plenty of them on /r/JaguarGator9), [here's one of them that I posted in November on /r/nfl](https://www.listnook.com/r/nfl/comments/3tnuzs/jaguargator9s_week_11_weird_stat_thread/) EDIT #2: In the meantime, [here's a Weird Stat Thread on Ragwort](https://www.listnook.com/r/JaguarGator9/comments/4mgwzn/jaguargator9s_weird_stat_thread_ragwort_edition/) **EDIT #3: For those that are interested in this, [I've developed a game-plan to claim sublistnooks that Ragwort owns](https://www.listnook.com/r/JaguarGator9/comments/4miwb2/after_yesterdays_progress_heres_the_gameplan/)**
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adeadhead Jun 3, 2016 +114
The issue is that any intervention by admins sets a precedent for intervention across the board. In /r/pics, we'd love to get rid of the inactive top mod, but he doesn't fit the precise requirements for inactivity, despite having performed a total of 5 mod actions so far this year.
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DenebVegaAltair Jun 3, 2016 +168
Then perhaps it is a sign that whatever rules that are in place now need to be revised, because as it stands they do not work as effectively as needed.
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sammythemc Jun 3, 2016 +27
But how do you revise the rules without introducing a class of listnook employees to sift through all the drama? The problem with that is twofold. First, who knows if listnook could even afford to hire a bunch of people to do that. Second, who's to say people wouldn't have these same problems with a listnook employee? Just look at how this site turned on Ellen Pao. As it stands, if a mod is abusing their power in the minds of the masses, all the people who don't like it can just pull up stakes and move to a new sublistnook. If the problem is seen as being with listnook itself, then people would start to bail from the website as a whole.
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iSeven Jun 3, 2016 +282
> /u/Ragwort Just going through his comment history on /r/listnookrequest, jesus christ...
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NineteenthJester Jun 3, 2016 +184
He mods 880+ subs?! How does anyone think that kind of thing is a good idea?
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JordyLakiereArt Jun 3, 2016 +197
Looking into it a bit, his plan is to squat a bunch of sublistnooks named after listnookors that have 200k+ karma. His brilliant plan is waiting till some of them get famous enough to want to have their sublistnook and can't afford to lose their brand/name - so they'll offer him cash for the sublistnook. Worst case scenario they get famous and he runs the sublistnook. This man is a true genius and this is how he'll make his fortune, clearly. I bet he's rolling in it right now.
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origin_of_an_asshole Jun 3, 2016 +68
I don't think I've ever hated a stranger so much. Dictionary.com should read: c***: (noun). *slang.* /u/Ragwort.
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +180
That's....really f****** weird. What kind of loser spends their time doing something like this?
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ky1e Jun 4, 2016 +47
The "bad actors" mentioned have been around for several years. There are several distinct cliques of "power moderators," who abuse the simple hierarchy structure and hoard influence over popular, generic communities. /r/worldnews, /r/iama, /r/pics, /r/conspiracy, and /r/technology are all communities that have been held back by groups of "power moderators" that spend most of their time on the site dealing with internal drama within their moderator team or their sublistnook communities, or external drama with other moderator teams. When it comes to actually moderating activity in their sublistnooks, the clique moderator teams have always been the least effective. They either get bogged down by their own buereaucratic systems (because they take the work way too seriously), or because they don't have any system at all. These large sublistnooks have a lot of activity. Moderator teams need to be both organized and nimble. Getting rid of these "bad actors" would improve the moderator community at large, since a common trait of "power moderators" is continuously seeking and collecting more moderator permissions in more sublistnooks, until they are an ineffective moderator in dozens or hundreds of sublistnooks. Having inactive moderators sitting on active sublistnooks' team can cause the community harm, because it often puts stress on the other moderators that are lower on the simple hierarchy ...anyway, yes, it is a complicated issue, and I'm glad to hear (again) that the admins are committed to fixing it (again).
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kwh Jun 3, 2016 +48
>The problems we see are a result of a couple of decisions we made a long time ago, not understanding their longterm consequences: simplistic moderator hierarchy and valuable real-estate in r/ urls. It's kind of foolish to suggest that you didn't "understand" or think about longterm consequences. Forum moderation wasn't a new concept when you started listnook and you made specific decisions with specific expectations. Many large forums existed whose moderator staff was handpicked by site owners. There's a few obvious "conceptual maps" to what went on with listnook from early days. One is the early internet domain system, and another is Wikipedia. The early domain system offered c**** domain names to the first 'comer', which lead to a high demand for common terms, trademarks, and other simple URLs. (www.pets.com, etc.) The result was that these were rapidly acquired or sold to those who had the greatest interest in controlling them. Obviously, decisions made by listnook Admins caused certain key sublistnook terms (news, worldnews, politics) to become highly valued. That's nothing new and has been around since AOL keywords. This also meant that the sublistnook moderator leadership mattered more, while at the same time listnook admins maintained the same imperial 'disinterest' in intervening, while nevertheless influencing (behind scenes, in private emails or IRC channels, or through outright policy decisions blamed upon "investors"). In the case of Wikipedia, wikipedia purported to be a benign anarchy, without centralized control or moderation except where absolutely needed. Various processes and controls were eventually established by interested parties, yet for all intents and purposes it remained under control of Jimbo Wales and the Wikipedia Foundation which could effectively 'turn out the lights' if they desired. Like Wikipedia editors, the crop of moderators are 'accepted' by the site owners, yet are made to do the grunt work needed to make listnook successful without anything (presumptively) other than ego remuneration. Finally, the other important conceptual map would be to the Northwest Ordinance of the early United States. As one of the earliest acts of the States United post-revolution, it established land patents to be given to whoever would explore the newly acquired territories, provided that they A. survey the land (thus making it navigable and hospitible to others), and B. establish systems of rudimentary territorial government. This is really what you did in the past 8 years on listnook. You let the sublistnook pioneers create sublistnooks, and then the people populated them. The moderators in place created rules, and there was a rough concept of continuity of government, although some intervention was needed. The next step is obvious: either recognize popular sovereignty in sublistnooks and establish a means for election/de-election of moderators, or give up the illusion of sovereignty altogether. Every time people say "we did it listnook!" they believe that there is in fact an empowered "we" - when in fact the only power comes from code and 'the light switch' (ala Mao - barrel of a gun) Right now you're dodging all responsibility for bad moderation even though it is permitted de facto by site admins, and taking all credit for good moderation. As far as I know, you have no obligation to allow moderators to continue per TOS or AUP - unless you have secret contracts or agreements (paid for?) giving them the job. So what's the real deal Steve? You can't fool all the people all of the time.
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wigglewam Jun 3, 2016 +155
I would like to see the default subs democratized. Hold moderator elections once a year, like StackOverflow does. Make all moderator actions transparent, so everyone can see (e.g.) who has been banned by who and for what. Allow non-defaults to continue the way they currently run, and give default subs a choice: democratize, or lose your default sub status. Any thoughts?
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IWishItWouldSnow Jun 3, 2016 +54
Too easily gamed by motivated swarms, and it kind of screws over the people who created what became really popular subs. Transparency, however would be good - the ability of mods to essentially shadowban at the listnook level needs to stop. If your post is removed by the automod you should receive a notice telling you that it was removed and why. There has to be *some* balance between keeping the rules secret to prevent spammers from figuring out how to get around them and a user from knowing why they have been secretly banned, but at the very least a notice saying "your post has been removed because of a username match" should always be sent out.
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rfiok Jun 3, 2016 +62
how about not letting them expand their power? Limit the max subs you can moderate to 15, limit the max number of big subs (20K+ users) you can moderate to 1. If someone is over the limit dont let them moderate new ones. Give a 3 month grace period to people over this limit to give up mod status, if they dont demote them in chronological order until they are in the limits.
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +14
Many people see it as the biggest issue on the site now. I mean, you have a non Canadian heading up /r/Canada and nobody can remove him. People should not be allowed to mod 100+ subs.
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n_body Jun 3, 2016 +149
There are also much worse cases, such as when one completely takes over a sub, deletes everything, etc. http://www.np.listnook.com/r/outoftheloop/comments/4kns6v/_/
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +135
Well that's what happened in the MakingAMurderer sub, the power mod came in, changed the rules of the sub and started deleting everything that didn't fit with the new rules and even some stuff that should have been fine. Hence the reason we all bailed to TickTockManitowoc
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GoldenGonzo Jun 4, 2016 +5
The biggest question people should be asking themselves is, "how can someone mod so many sublistnooks and be an effective and fair moderator?" Some of these people moderate dozens, [some mod hundreds](/user/Manwithoutmodem). The answer is, they can't, and they won't. They don't become moderator of 400 sublistnooks to improve 400 sublistnooks, they do it for power, and for nothing else. They could care less if the sublistnook suffers under their leadership (or lack there of, more like), the only thing that matters to them is that the power is *theirs*, and not someone else's. These are the kind of people that run listnook, these are the kind of people that decide what the 10's of millions of users who never make an account and just browse the default sublistnooks see. [These are the kinds of people that can and will censor opinions and information they don't like in order to shape the narrative.](https://www.listnook.com/r/undelete/comments/4mbzl5/moderators_of_rpolitics_removing_violence_at_san/) What do these powerusers do when you speak out about their abuse? They delete your comments [and ban you from their sublistnooks, even if where you spoke was a completely different sub where they hold no power.](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/4megfw/ama_about_my_darkest_secrets/d3uxmj2)
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ConfusedHerring Jun 3, 2016 +864
What's the best and worst thing about running Listnook?
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spez Jun 3, 2016 +2015
The best part is being a part of something so important to so many people. It's a lot of fun most of the time, and even when it's not fun, it's very exciting and challenging. It's not always easy to find that in a job, and I'm really fortunate to have it in mine. The hardest part is watching what I say publicly. Everything is recorded and judged. Our PR team is always lecturing me to be a little less Joe Biden.
2015
Maccaroney Jun 4, 2016 +285
Sometimes i feel really bad for people like you - people in power that have every word scrutinized. The famous "popcorn tastes good" incident brought to us by your partner in crime. Some guy, like the rest of us, was just trying to have a laugh. Half of my comments are references or jokes. I don't know what i'd do if i had to seriously consider the ramifications of everything i say. It certainly wouldn't go well. I'd explode. What i'm getting at is this: I know that you're a person. A person who makes jokes, makes mistakes, and is just trying to have a half-pleasant life like the rest of us. So just know, if you ever make a mistake and are getting absolutely buttfucked by the community at least one guy out there is going to be sitting there at his PC thinking:         *Wow, m8, you fucked up. Over 10k downvotes. I wonder what the most downvoted post of all time is... Does Listnook have a 'sort by lowest' option? Damn, doesn't seem so. Well, it needs one. I should message someone about this. I don't know anyone to message. Eh, i guess it's not really useful anyway. I would be fun, though. I wonder what my most downvoted post is. It's probably that time i talked a bunch of shit about Fast and Furious. Hah, yep, just as i suspected; almost a hundred downvotes. My high score is less than 1% of this guy's. Amazing. I guess it's really just exposure more than anything. We're all the same here. Just some people. Typing away on our keyboards. Click clack. Mine's probably louder, though. Heh. I wonder what /u/spez types on. Probably something either extremely boring or extremely cool. Actually, mine isn't extreme either. Actually, nothing i have is extreme. I want something extreme. What am i passionate about? Well, cars, i guess. But i don't have the skills to do anything crazy with them. What skills do i have? F***, i don't have any skills at all. I should do something with my life. /u/spez did something with his life. He's the f****** CEO of a large company with millions of users. How the f*** did that come about? I envy this man and his 10k downvotes. Truly awesome.*     **TL;DR:** U do u, bb, u do u. <3
285
mspk7305 Jun 3, 2016 +495
> Our PR team is always lecturing me to be a little less Joe Biden. Repeat after me: "F*** you, I am Joe Biden."
495
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +24
[deleted]
24
BlatantConservative Jun 3, 2016 +452
Then do what I do, spend all of your time on Listnook and never go out in public.
452
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +752
Anything new you can tell us about privacy on listnook?
752
spez Jun 3, 2016 +803
Not a lot new, but I can repeat how we feel: privacy colors many of our conversations around here. We have a good [privacy policy](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/3tlcil/we_are_updating_our_privacy_policy_effective_jan); we released a thorough [transparency report](https://www.listnook.com/wiki/transparency/2015), which will be even more thorough next year because we're keeping better records; and that whole techno-libertarian, super-paranoid viewpoint that exists on Listnook? That came from me, and has been upheld by many others around here over the years. edit: I have a hard time with links.
803
srnull Jun 3, 2016 +610
> we released a thorough (transparency report)[https://www.listnook.com/wiki/transparency/2015] Sweet, even the listnook CEO gets this wrong sometimes. I always remember it as "The URL part is a (whisper) at the end", but sometimes reverse it on first try.
610
glr123 Jun 3, 2016 +50
I always think brackets first \[\] because **one** key press, parenthesis come second because shift is **two** key presses.
50
tobiasvl Jun 3, 2016 +32
TIL some stuff about the US keyboard layout. Weird that it's harder to type regular parentheses when they're used a lot more often.
32
iCameToLearnSomeCode Jun 3, 2016 +42
The US keyboard has programmers in mind in a lot of ways. the "/" and "\" are far more accessible than the "?" which requires a "shift"+"/".
42
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +120
The interesting part is not that he botched a link, it's that he successfully did one link, and then immediately botched another one.
120
RandomName01 Jun 3, 2016 +111
>[transparency report](https://www.listnook.com/wiki/transparency/2015) FTFY. [This](https://www.listnook.com/wiki/commenting) might come handy in the future. Edit: [for reference](http://i.imgur.com/Y7yGKqu.png)
111
jdp407 Jun 3, 2016 +1450
Quite a few people were concerned by [your recent comments](https://www.listnook.com/r/videos/comments/4lmfmj/ceo_of_listnook_steve_huffman_about_advertising_on/) to which the title of this post alludes ("We know all of your interests. Not only just your interests you are willing to declare publicly on Facebook - we know your dark secrets, we know everything"), and would like further explanation. Are your comments representative of the policies of listnook Inc.? Does this herald the implementation of highly targeted advertising based on sublistnook preferences, or perhaps something much more sinister, like mass data collection which could then be sold on? I think if you could clarify these comments it might put people slightly more at ease.
1450
spez Jun 3, 2016 +923
We would like to make better use of all the data we have. The front page could be a lot more relevant; we can make better content suggestions; and yes, ads can be better targeted. There are many opportunities to make Listnook better and more relevant. We're not actually doing it now. I've mentioned this sort of thing before. When do, we'll always provide an opt-out or way of resetting things. No, we'll don't ever share this sort of information directly with advertisers. We sometimes have to jump through a lot of hoops to accomplish this, but we don't mind at all.
923
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +365
Wouldn't this only increase the echochamber effect of this site? Much like google news does, or facebook? I suppose this would be an effect you might consider and dismiss because I'm sure lots of people out there actually prefer echochambers. But it feels like yet another step away from what made listnook great when I first joined: exposure to a breadth of relevant user content. It also feels like an attempt at fixing to the effect of popularity. Everyone knows that listnook content is better in non default subs for instance.
365
TraMaI Jun 3, 2016 +40
In a sense, sure, but when you have shit like the Donald that's already the most tightly sealed echo chamber I've ever seen because they ban anyone with a softly differing opinions it's a bit different. I like seeing different views from my own, I like learning new things and seeing different perspectives, I don't like someone putting their fingers in their ears and screaming to drown out any sort of differing opinions when you want to ask a question or bring up contradicting evidence or a different opinion. That sub is absolutely filled with horrible children. Donald may even have some honorable qualities, but you'd never know it my taking to any of his supporters on that sub.
40
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +616
[deleted]
616
MaxSupernova Jun 3, 2016 +265
They have your email address and your IP, which can be used to tie other sources of data together and connect you with your name and possibly location and other info. As long as there is one "reasonably unique" piece of information in common, they can tie together all sorts of things. I was reluctant to use my supermarket's points card because of tracking, and then I was told by a store manager that if I use interac (EDIT: that's a Canadian debit card) they link all my purchases together and have a profile of me anyway so I might as well get the points...
265
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +15
[deleted]
15
wub_wub Jun 3, 2016 +26
>When do, we'll always provide an opt-out But you made a couple of privacy invading changes and enabled them on listnook without the ability to opt out, and for some of them only after a bunch of users complained you decided to start working on opt out functionality. Is opt out something that is not one of the requirements for such features to be developed in the first place? Example: https://www.listnook.com/r/changelog/comments/4ldk0r/listnook_change_affiliate_links_on_listnook/ and another one: https://www.listnook.com/r/changelog/comments/49jjb7/listnook_change_click_events_on_outbound_links/
26
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +82
[deleted]
82
Bartisgod Jun 4, 2016 +11
I don't *want* my front page to be targeted though. It used to just be a list of top posts from all of the subs I subscribe to. Now I subscribe to about 20 subs but see nothing but /r/sandersforpresident and /r/AskListnook, it's ridiculous. I understand that it might not all be targeting, some subs have mods who know how to manipulate /r/all and others are too huge not to naturally drown everything else out. But the front page used to be a list of the top posts in each subscribed sub. S*** 1-25 were the #1 posts in subscribed subs numbers 1-25, s**** 26-50 did the same for the #2 posts. The front page and /r/all shouldn't be the same thing like they pretty much are now. If you're going to target things, even if you choose to do it secretly, could you please at least offer an opt out button that returns me to a completely untargeted, unbiased view if I want it, like Google News does?
11
ElagabalusRex Jun 3, 2016 +2347
Do you ever think about unbanning every single user just to see the chaos it would create?
2347
spez Jun 3, 2016 +3104
Yes, actually. There are probably users who were accidentally banned for spamming, but in reality they were just sharing an IP with a spammer. Now that our anti-spam efforts are so much better, I'd like to unban all old spammers and see what happens.
3104
voldyman Jun 3, 2016 +4039
hey can i be unshadow banned? have had multiple conversations with the mods, i didn't do anything. i can give you the alternate account i've been using and there is no malicious activity. This username is useful because i use it everywhere else;
4039
RandomName01 Jun 3, 2016 +540
>I'd like to unban all old spammers and see what happens. I'm picturing some kind of zombie apocalypse type thing.
540
hackerschooldropout Jun 3, 2016 +117
They could relegate them to their own sub and see how it plays out. The fit will survive to make custom posts and get 'let out' into the rest of listnook, the weak/fake accounts will not. Moderating that sub would be a shitshow however. I could see this being like a game where other users have to guess if the user posting is real or fake, then upvote/downvote this accordingly. is r/TuringTest taken?
117
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +28
Do it! Do it! What's the worst that could happen? They can't fire you for that, and you'd get a lot of good data on how effective your new anti spam measures are.
28
K_Lobstah Jun 3, 2016 +231
Hi Steve, I think the last one of these I inquired about the on-boarding process for new user accounts. Has that made its way into the timetable yet? I'd like to once again emphasize my belief that a thorough introduction to the site, its philosophies, how it works, and the actual nature of sublistnooks as independent communities will cut out SO many issues faced by both users and moderators. An effective presentation to first-time users could really solve a lot of little issues that we frequently see compound into larger ones. Regardless of the answer, thanks for taking time to do another of these. They're always interesting and informative.
231
spez Jun 3, 2016 +260
Yes yes yes. Our biggest high-level product need to is to educate new users on what Listnook actually is.
260
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +635
[This](https://i.imgur.com/vRKWU.png) comic created by a listnookor 5 years ago really helped me make sense of listnook. It should be stickied at the top of r/all EDIT: credit for original link goes to u/Sophira below
635
Sophira Jun 3, 2016 +130
[edit: The link's been updated!] It really annoys me that somebody removed the credit on that. For the record, [this is the original image](https://i.imgur.com/vRKWU.png), made by /u/unfortunatejordan (Guy Collins), who himself has a sublistnook at /r/guyjc. I agree though, this comic is amazing.
130
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +27
THANK YOU! I've been trying to find the original but was never successful. I'll change my link to yours :)
27
Sophira Jun 3, 2016 +49
No problem! [edit: Oh, and you may appreciate [this full-size representation of listnook](http://i.imgur.com/v0KhY.png) made by the same person! It's where some of the scenes in the comic come from.]
49
MannoSlimmins Jun 3, 2016 +629
What is your biggest regret in life?
629
spez Jun 3, 2016 +1913
It's hard to answer that. There are many moments that I regretted at one point (selling Listnook so early, leaving Listnook, letting my marriage fail), but that I now look back on with perspective, and those experiences have shaped me for the better.
1913
DarkHorse66 Jun 4, 2016 +89
One of my biggest regrets was throwing up on you first year of college as you slept in the bunk under me. Just kidding. That was pretty hilarious. I did actually regret throwing up into my printer that night, thinking it was a waste basket. That part sucked. Hi Steve!
89
Fenzik Jun 3, 2016 +162
I know there's a lot of joking around as well as speaking professionally on this thread, but I think it's really cool that you're actually being real as well.
162
Keyframe Jun 3, 2016 +46
Didn't we celebrate your marriage just a few years ago here? Well, damn. Sorry to hear that.
46
CMC3BFF Jun 3, 2016 +4260
Ever thought of buying RES and integrating it into the main site so that the vanilla listnook experience is actually worthwhile?
4260
spez Jun 3, 2016 +7577
Thought of, yes. In reality, probably not. We do appreciate everything they do for us, however. I don't use it myself because I believe I should have to suffer until we make things better.
7577
MustacheEmperor Jun 3, 2016 +19
> I should have to suffer until we make things better With m.listnook.com we are all forced to suffer while the beta is made better. Can you PLEAAASE make it so m.listnook.com respects the "request desktop site" on mobile devices? I know some people like it more but I prefer to use the desktop site even on my phone. I've looked online and there is no way to disable the mobile version of the site.
19
rsplatpc Jun 3, 2016 +5762
> I believe I should have to suffer until we make things better. "Hey RES, can we buy you?" "yes" "ok we just made it better"
5762
seign Jun 3, 2016 +173
Ideally that would be true. Unfortunately, I think what /u/spez is getting at is if they were to buy out RES, they'd probably have to neuter it and get rid a lot of the best features that people love most because as a CEO, he's expected to increase profits no matter what. RES has been running as an outside entity since it's inception and there is no doubt that there are features that would be excluded from any sort of "official" version. And if that ever happened, someone would just re-build the "old" RES and take over the good-will the name has earned, plus the majority of it's user base. **TL;DR**: It's a good thing RES is independent from listnook.
173
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +2023
"Hey RES, can we buy you?" "Sure, how much money do you have?" "Very little money." "..."
2023
RandomName01 Jun 3, 2016 +377
That's a good mindset to have! One thing that I would find great is if embedded images could be resized just like in RES.
377
honestbleeps Jun 3, 2016 +262
why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? source: i am cow
262
CockTheRipper Jun 3, 2016 +257
Do you think you guys are making as much progress as you had hoped? What areas and ideas are you really happy with, and which do you feel still need more work?
257
spez Jun 3, 2016 +330
Yes and no. We spent a lot of the last year healing and hiring. I have to remind myself that we can't do everything we want overnight. At the same time, I'm really excited to build all our dreams, and I want to get things online yesterday!
330
The--Marf Jun 3, 2016 +371
Even though you are an Admin what do you enjoy most about Listnook as a User? Sorry for the kinda vague question.
371
spez Jun 3, 2016 +804
I love posts like [this](https://www.listnook.com/r/HighQualityGifs/comments/4jqvlf/reorganizing_the_sublistnook/) that I couldn't possibly explain to anyone else, but still make me laugh til I cry.
804
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +400
[deleted]
400
combuchan Jun 3, 2016 +982
When will m.listnook.com be not horrible and useless, and what was the impetus to change it from not horrible and useless to horrible and useless originally?
982
spez Jun 3, 2016 +1364
> When will m.listnook.com be not horrible and useless 5pm pst. Mark my words.
1364
[deleted] Jun 9, 2016 +10
Hi Spez. I made this account on the dawn of the last retarded thing you said. I'm sure you've said lots of dumb shit between now and then but hey, that's not the issue. Literally forcing my phone into m.listnook.com mode is goddam cancer. Is there any way to opt out of it or am I fucked for good?
10
13steinj Jun 3, 2016 +236
Giving listnookors a deadline is one thing, but one of less than 4 hours? You're either mad or something has been in the works for a while (hopefully the latter).
236
Xamnam Jun 3, 2016 +423
Ah, but do you see a date attached to that time?
423
Shanix Jun 3, 2016 +219
Just to ping off this, would it be possible to redirect to a non-mobile version of listnook if you're not on a mobile platform?
219
Dgc2002 Jun 4, 2016 +13
Oh my god please. I have no idea why(well, a little. I think google is preferring mobile friendly results) but google results to Listnook either send me to m.listnook.com or listnook.com/bnlbbal/.compact.
13
[deleted] Jun 4, 2016 +11
[removed]
11
LigerZeroSchneider Jun 3, 2016 +31
Can you stop it from showing up in google results? I've once intentionally went to m.listnook but it keeps showing up even on desktop occasionally.
31
srnull Jun 3, 2016 +35
m.listnook.com is so bad. All I want is the simple compressed view of i.listnook.com with actions like collapse and permalink not being hidden behind an additional click.
35
voltism Jun 3, 2016 +320
How do you feel about the default sublistnooks?
320
spez Jun 3, 2016 +671
I understand the motive for creating them in the first place, to ensure variety on the front page, but I think we would take a different approach now.
671
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +386
[deleted]
386
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +73
I like this, but please make sure there is a little ^^No ^^thanks, ^^just ^^subscribe ^^me ^^to ^^the ^^default ^^set... or something like that. Just don't FORCE onboarding
73
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +18
I honestly think the solution is simple onboarding. Don't be like Twitter or other places that MAKE you follow people. Right after sign up, give people two simple options. A. Listnook is all about communities, and finding the right ones is just as important. Discover and subscribe to communities here B. No thanks, just give me the usual set (Obviously better wording that that) Heck, even go with something like: Listnook is about communities... Click next to start discovering! (and then, in really small text) ^^^No ^^^thanks, ^^^just ^^^give ^^^me ^^^the ^^^usual ^^^set --- The usual set will simply be the defaults as we know it, but having the onboarding will help most new users
18
AvatarOfMomus Jun 3, 2016 +79
Do you think we might ever see the current setup change? There's been a lot of controversy any time a sub joins or leaves the defaults list and even the existence of defaults comes with its own problems and benefits. Do you think there's a better way to present the site to new/non-logged-in users, and if so do you think Listnook might eventually move away from its current system?
79
thelittleking Jun 3, 2016 +95
Some kind of "hey tell us what you like when you sign up" that then grabbed 10-15 relevant subs with links to more that might be interesting to the user would be a nice system. And if you're too goddamn lazy to make an account, I guess you can have /r/all.
95
Bythmark Jun 3, 2016 +57
All is probably the last thing Listnook wants its front-page to be. It's a terrible place without filtering out all the trash subs, plus every now and then you get stuff like morbidreality and watchpeopledie.
57
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +32
Not just trash, but niche stuff, subs for particular TV shows or video games. There's nothing wrong with /r/rocketleague but it shouldn't be on the default front page. The vast majority of users don't play the game, and wouldn't like it's content. F***, I used to play LoL and I don't understand 90% if the posts on /r/leagueoflegends. And don't get me started on /r/the_donald...
32
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +18
[deleted]
18
jhc1415 Jun 3, 2016 +10
Do you think expanding them was a mistake? I've noticed that the quality of the content in the more niche ones like /r/space and /r/Documentaries dropped significantly after becoming defaults. I don't think people should be automatically subscribed to subs like that regardless of whether or not they have an interest in those topics.
10
ReallyAmused Jun 3, 2016 +891
why do you have all our secrets? - what did you mean by that statement?
891
spez Jun 3, 2016 +1696
The sentiment I was trying to convey is that people share many different facets of their personalities on Listnook, which doesn't happen many other places online or even in real life sometimes. As it happens, the quote you're referring to was tongue-in-cheek and needlessly douchey. My bad.
1696
-Hegemon- Jun 3, 2016 +409
Yeah, I saw the video, I got what you meant. Let's say I'm into dressing like a woman (I'm not, you can check, you pervs /s). You guys could sell me a fancy new dress, something that Facebook wouldn't because I wouldn't share that interest there. But yeah, it sounded very bad in the video, very Orwellian, so it's good of you to acknowledge it.
409
durandalwaslaughing Jun 3, 2016 +81
As long as the advertising targeted at durandalwaslaughing remains targeted at durandalwaslaughing and never leaks to *me* behind the mask, I'm fine with that.
81
Entropius Jun 3, 2016 +13
I think you're forgetting that many Listnook users made the mistake of verifying our email with Listnook. Verifying your email with Listnook *can* link a Listnook user name with a real-life identify. Particularly if Amazon.com or some other Viglink client of Listnook's has that same email address in their databases. And many of us verified our email addresses simply to have password-recovery as an option. Not to be surveilled for targeting ads. Had I known what Listnook was going to do, I'd never have verified my email with them. (This also happens to explain why lately Listnook sent out automated reminders to users asking them to verify their emails, it's to help ad targeting find the real you). For instance, if I worked at Listnook and had access to your email account I could safely conclude that [your real name here] is probably around 30 years old (or older), and [played Macintosh first-person-shooter games in the mid-to-late 1990's.](http://marathon.bungie.org/story/final.html) EDIT: Also worth noting, Listnook removed the ability to delete your account, you can only deactivate it (just like Facebook). So if you verified your email with them even once, they have it forever. You can never undo the damage.
13
Rlight Jun 3, 2016 +100
[Context](https://www.listnook.com/r/videos/comments/4lmfmj/ceo_of_listnook_steve_huffman_about_advertising_on/) >"We know all of your interests. Not only just your interests you are willing to declare publicly on Facebook - we know your dark secrets, we know everything" (TNW Conference, 26 May)
100
Bifrons Jun 3, 2016 +314
Could you talk more in depth about the decision to conspicuously replace links to various vendor sites with listnook affiliated versions to increase site revenue without the user being aware?
314
spez Jun 3, 2016 +250
We [announced](https://www.listnook.com/r/changelog/comments/4ldk0r/listnook_change_affiliate_links_on_listnook/) this last week. We haven't enabled it yet, and we will provide an opt-out. We're starting with a test to see what the opportunity size actually is. We're also treading carefully.
250
GoGoGadgetReddit Jun 3, 2016 +102
Have you considered replacing user-posted affiliate ID URLs with Listnook affiliate IDs in the URL? This would not only generate revenue for listnook, but also be a major step towards stopping Affiliate Marketing spammers who create endless new accounts to bypass bans. edit -- Charity Affiliate IDs (for Amazon URLs, for example) should be an exception and left alone. edit2 -- The Affiliate ID replacement could be an OPT-OUT option for sublistnook moderators who wish to allow it.
102
Bifrons Jun 3, 2016 +47
It was announced on a sublistnook not a lot of users subscribe to, and the post itself is only hovering at 32 upvotes, indicating that not a lot of people has seen it. Coupled with the opt-out instead of a different mechanism, I feel that this feature is quietly being pushed through. It's technically transparent, but in a "fine print" sort of fashion.
47
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +454
I'll ask the obligatory question: 2fa when?
454
spez Jun 3, 2016 +368
We're still working through the acute pain of fixing and finding the actually compromised accounts. 2fa after that. We've talked through the technical challenges, and they're not that bad.
368
how_do_i_land Jun 3, 2016 +139
How will RSS feeds etc be affected by 2fa?
139
spez Jun 3, 2016 +237
The best practice is one-time-use passwords, I believe.
237
Dykam Jun 3, 2016 +84
> one-time-use passwords Or limited-ability tokens? Like, read-only etc. Which I assume to some extend the OAuth API does, but more publicly like Google's one-purpose-passwords.
84
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +589
[deleted]
589
spez Jun 3, 2016 +1393
Never. But how often do I do AMAs while on the toilet? Now that's a question worth asking.
1393
TheBoldMuffin Jun 3, 2016 +667
No wonder its so shitty. *jk I'm actually really enjoying this AMA thanks for doing it*
667
warox13 Jun 3, 2016 +112
> jk I'm actually really enjoying this AMA thanks for doing it translation: OH GOD PLEASE DON'T BAN ME
112
TonyQuark Jun 3, 2016 +437
When do you expect more mod tools to become available?
437
spez Jun 3, 2016 +556
The big one is new moderator mail. We've got a whole product team on it. The short answer is, as soon as it's ready–as soon as possible.
556
zeug666 Jun 3, 2016 +32
Anything you can share about the direction it's going in, changes to expect, or anything like that? I'm curious because I've had some thoughts about modmail as I've waited for it to load and I would like to share those thoughts, completely unsolicited and with no expectations of the following even being read, with you: * Treat modmails sort of like a support ticket; give a status like pending, completed, or an expiration/alarm/calendar type trigger to check back later. * allow mods to add notes, that are only visible to other mods, to a 'ticket' instead of having to create a separate modmail or utilizing a separate communication platform (unless you'd also like to add a communication platform like 'modchat') * Tickets 'stick' to a user, making them easier to recover and refer back to whenever mods interact with a user (because searching through modmail sucks) * Incorporate mod-log, mod-notes, and ban info into the above
32
adeadhead Jun 3, 2016 +115
Thank god. And not just for moderators. As a mod of a large sub, I feel really bad for users who aren't familiar with the site whose messages get buried and think we just ignored them.
115
karoc Jun 3, 2016 +308
Do you think listnook will still be relevant in 10 years from now?
308
spez Jun 3, 2016 +545
We'll do everything we can to ensure that that is the case.
545
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +241
Whats your listnook password?
241
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +15
[deleted]
15
spez Jun 3, 2016 +587
I don't know, I use [1password](https://1password.com/), and you should too.
587
EorEquis Jun 3, 2016 +775
As an admin, you should absolutely see how many people just tried to login as you using "1password" for the password. Make charts.
775
super_secret_soup Jun 3, 2016 +91
1. What do you think makes listnook different to other social media sites out there? 2. Batman vs 100 badgers, who wins?
91
spez Jun 3, 2016 +209
1. People can be their authentic selves in a way they can't anywhere else. They can also be someone else's authentic self. 2. Batman. He's the world's greatest detective.
209
[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +226
Is a hotdog a sandwhich? What about a taco? Sharks or Penguins? Warriors or Cavs?
226
spez Jun 3, 2016 +563
> Is a hotdog a sandwhich? What about a taco? No. Stop it. A hotdog is one piece of bread. A taco is one piece of something. A sandwich needs 2+ pieces of bread. > Sharks or Penguins? Redwings > Warriors or Cavs? Dubs!
563
jooes Jun 3, 2016 +80
What about sub sandwiches, like from Subway? If you don't cut the bun all the way through, it's still technically one piece of bread. Hell, that's *exactly* how you cut the bun if you're having a hot dog. If a sub is a sandwich, a hot dog is a sandwich too.
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brucifer Jun 3, 2016 +19
One important difference is that sub sandwiches typically have two nearly-parallel bread planes enclosing the contents and typically rest parallel to the plate, like so: =. Hot dogs on the other hand, have the bread faces at an angle and are placed on a plate like so: (V). This criterion also rightfully eliminates soup in a bread bowl and jelly donuts.
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +744
[deleted]
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +144
[removed]
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Voli-fair Jun 3, 2016 +125
Do you like pineapple on your pizza?
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +151
Do you like pina coladas?
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TSHIRTTIIIIIIME Jun 3, 2016 +803
What was the real reason Victoria was let go?
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +482
[deleted]
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reseph Jun 3, 2016 +805
Can you tell us why this was removed from listnook's core values? >1. Respect anonymity and privacy >You are not required to share more than you are comfortable with. Having information doesn't give you a license to use it. Allow people to be as anonymous as they choose, including ourselves. Value the candor afforded by anonymity. See https://np.listnook.com/r/videos/comments/4lmfmj/ceo_of_listnook_steve_huffman_about_advertising_on/d3olvco
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TheHaleStorm Jun 3, 2016 +234
There has been a noticeable trend of moderators in very large subs (and apparently smaller subs moderated by people with a distinct conflict of interest that is NOT made clear to the casual visitor) not really moderating them as much as directing the discussion in a way that suits their personal beliefs. Now on most subs this would not be an issue, /r/Pokemon should be positives about Pokémon, /r/conservitive and /r/liberal positive about conservative and liberal values respectively. This makes sense as it is the point of the sub. The types of subs where this would end up becoming an issue are ones that would appear to the layperson to be an impartial sub, for example /r/news, /r/worldnews, or /r/politics. On the surface and in the way they are described, these subs should not take a stance one way or the other. (Edit: In addition to the large subs trying to appear impartial, subs for products, companies, people, etc, especially when a potential conflict of interest is in play, or unwritten/ambiguous rules are enforced to steer the conversation are also effected) Given some of the recent developments regarding Facebook and their curating/censorship/tweaking of their trending topics, do you feel that social media outlets have a duty to provide an impartial service to their patrons? Or, as in the case with targeted subs, at least make it clear that things are only being presented with information from one perspective? **EDIT** I have another example that I noticed because of a good question from /u/MK101 that would be directly impacted by better rules regarding transparency and fulfilling the implied duty that a sub and it's mods have to listnookors. The sub /r/lootcrate is devoted to the popular nerd subscription box of the same name. Their rules include your basics, no spoilers on box content before a certain date, no NSFW, how to post spoilers after the blackout date, and two more i want to point out, no posting or discussing other subscription boxes, and Mods have the last say on what is allowed, the sub is not Lootcrate customer service, they will delete content to promote using the proper customer service channels. >No posting or discussing other subscription boxes. This sort of makes sense, and sort of doesn't. It is a sub for fans to discuss Lootcrate, right? A common thing in many subs is to discuss recommendations regarding other products, services, or advice on things not covered explicitly by that sub (even if it is just in the comments and not a dedicated post). This makes sense, you want advice from people that you know have like interests and experiences, right? Otherwise it may as well just be the product comment section on the official website, right? A sub dedicated to /r/Halo may have suggestions about similar games to play during a delay and /r/Diablo3 may have a submission asking for similar games but with offline play. Hell, /r/oculus decided that the best way to serve their constituent listnookors was to flat out open up discussion to ALL forms of VR tech. This is how you take what would have just been a circle jerk and turn it into a real community. That makes it a bit weird to ban any community discussion on topics other than Lootcrate... >Mods have the final say on what is, and is not allowed. Can you imagine if that was how the police determined whether you broke the law or not? Get pulled over by a cop for having a sticker for his kid's school's rival on your car is illegal on this street on Tuesdays. Why? He said so, and he has the final say. They do say that the reason that they are going to delete many posts is to encourage listnookors to take their comments to the customer service department as the sub is not the service department. Ok, this sort of makes sense to remind people that the sub is not official and customer service is often the best route, but many subs have realized that the higher level of accountability and visibility of product reps actively participating in the community is a very good thing for nearly all vendors. /r/vaping is a great example of awesome involvement from the companies discussed. Not only are listnookors warned of potential pitfalls, but they also get to see that company's customer service first hand. It's win win right? Not to /r/lootcrate. Why would someone set up a sub to discuss something, then limit the discussion to only positive commentary? There is no fulfilling conversation there, so why? Well, it turns out the why is because the top mod is an employee of Lootcrate making it an official corporate sub run by the corporation. A fact that you would not know by looking at the sub because it is never mentioned. This means that any listnookor doing research to see if this service is for them will see that sub and nothing but glowing reviews. Since they have a general trust in the listnook system of group verification, that must mean this is an awesome box if no one has anything bad to say. [It is especially awesome that they definitely did not send out a faulty product like, oh, let's just say an Infinity Gauntlet oven mitt that was melting and potentially hurting people. That would surely be brought up on the sub right? Well, I see no posts about it, so it must be good to go.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjUMviPXEAAXhTF.jpg) At least it seems that the sub finally started allowing posts regarding the recall of the product they sent out, but they certainly censored initial report on the potential of people being hurt and their product melting. These are the self serving mods with rules designed to benefit themselves at the cost of listnookors that I think need to be evaluated. Also keep in mind, that according to current Listnook policy, it is totally OK for Lootcrate to moderate the sub devoted to them and set the rules using paid employees as the moderators. If, however, I was the person that was the top mod and set identical rules in regards to posting and conduct in the sub and accepted a free subscription to Lootcrate for doing so, I would be permanently banned for accepting a kickback. Make this transparent for the sake of the listnookors. If you are moderating a sub about yourself, your product, or your company, ESPECIALLY if you receive any sort of compensation for it, that should be clear for transparency, integrity, and (I did not think it would be this serious) safety. If your rule is to delete all negative feedback, post it clearly in the sidebar. Do not hide it behind a catchall mods have the last word clause. We are not asking for any huge changes to Listnook. We are not even asking mods to enforce new rules, or stop enforcing old ones. All we request is that they clearly list what their rules are and if they have involvement that could conflict with the best interests of listnookors. **Edit**: To those who expressed a skeptical outlook on whether this issue would be addressed, rest easy. An Admin did weigh in regarding the subject in another top comment chain. The issue is not being avoided, but it is one that will take time, discussion, and finesse to address in a way that will provide positive change regarding integrity of the site and transparency, without overstepping and moving censorship from behind to curtain to being official policy. It is also important that if any policy changes are made, they do not compromise the things that make Listnook great, like leaving nearly all control to the mods who can then tailor their subs to best serve their community in content, tone, and message.
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mk101 Jun 3, 2016 +1303
How do you feel about staff of particular companies being mods in the the relevant sublistnook? Mods in /r/lootcrate, who work for the company, have been deleting posts about a dangerous fault with their product (melting oven glove) and now there has even been a recall issued. How is it acceptable to endanger people in this way? It seems like a massive conflict of interest. Especially since there was drama recently about mods being paid on behalf of companies behind the scenes, how is this any different? More info: https://www.listnook.com/r/lootcratespoilers/comments/4lu55v/psa_possible_infinity_gauntlet_oven_mitt_safety/ Edit: Now they admit it was actually company policy to delete the 'offending' posts, mind boggling: >Why posts were removed: >Our social team was advised to remove posts due to us sending out an official message via our own owned channels to anyone who received the oven mitt with further info. The e-mail gave them more information on how to proceed. We are currently investigating and taking appropriate action to to resolve. https://www.listnook.com/r/lootcrate/comments/4mbl1b/official_infinity_gauntlet_recall_emails_are/d3uu75p
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deviantbono Jun 3, 2016 +239
That's funny, I thought I read about Listnook banning a video game sub because it was run the video game developers (afaik they were completely transparent about it). I was never really clear whether it was allowed to run an "official" sub about your product.
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link_acct Jun 4, 2016 +109
The alleged rule is/was that mods are not allowed to profit from the sub. Take for example, the fiasco at /r/skincareaddiction: * Mods made a database website for users with info re: If you reacted badly to this, try this instead, etc. * To recoup development and server costs (they didn't code it themselves or use angelfire, surprise surprise), they used referral links * Site was more successful than expected, and they made a profit * bunch of users flipped their shit, brought up other complaints against one of the mods * admins wiped the mods out on the premise that mods are not allowed to use their positions for profit By this logic, all those other subs, ESPECIALLY ones with company reps as mods, should be wiped. But of course not. There was an srd thread about all this at the time.
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shaving_grapes Jun 4, 2016 +11
On mobile so I can't (be bothered to) look it up, but there was definitely an incident where mods were not working for a game company, but were being give beta access / other favors. In return, they kept the sub happy about the game by deleting negative comments and such. If I recall, it blew up and the mods were unmodded by the admins.
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AchievementUnlockd Jun 3, 2016 +626
We've got no rule against people modding a sub for their employer - we actually have a couple of good examples of it happening, but it's seriously hard. See https://www.listnook.com/wiki/selfpromotion#wiki_can_i_just_run_my_own_sublistnook.3F for more. As for the substance of the comment otherwise, I'm going to look into it, and I don't think it would be smart for us to jump in and comment beyond that.
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h0nest_Bender Jun 4, 2016 +94
> We've got no rule against people modding a sub for their employer Wait wait wait wait wait.... Let's say I mod /r/lootcate (for example) and I'm unaffiliated with the company. I can be BANNED from Listnook for taking kickbacks from Loot Crate in return for preferential moderation. I've seen mods get banned for doing things like that, even for the slightest hint that it might be happening. But you're telling me that it's OK for the company to remove the middle man? To me it seems like both situations have the same conflict of ethics. Why is one situation allowed and the other not?
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PunchyPalooka Jun 4, 2016 +6
Because if the company affiliate openly runs the sublistnook their affiliation is clear. Of course they're going to talk up their product, but that won't stop a competing sublistnook from posting more honest content. The policy provides action against people who are posing as honest and open, yet taking under-table money from the company to shape the conversation in a way that prevents the truth from coming out at all. This "unbiased user/sublistnook" of the product/service/whatever shows clearly how well it works and prevents negative commentary from coming to light. There are quite a few sublistnooks I enjoy that feature direct, open involvement by the company. It gives me access to a direct lane of communication and user support I wouldn't have otherwise.
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TheHaleStorm Jun 4, 2016 +13
I am just going to tag in on this for a second. The issue that the top comment brought up can be concerning on several levels. [I asked a question here that has some related conversation attached.](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/4megfw/slug/d3v2531) Not having a policy about banning employees from mod ding subs related to their employers activities makes total sense, they are possibly in a unique position to add a lot of unique opportunities and quality after all. Would the Admins be willing to discuss the possibility of requiring a sub controlled by a moderator with a distinct connection or conflict of interest to annotate it as such in the side bar or mod list? Additionally, the possibility of requiring subs to be more clear with rules that will result in removing posts or banning listnookors? Listnook is a source that a mind boggling number of people use for all sorts of entertainment, news, and research. There is a special connection and special trustworthiness that listnook exudes as a platform. It's openness and democratic evaluation of content means that the content is typically of high quality and accurate. If there are moderators that are shaping conversations and valuing the pushing their own personal narrative over the welling of their users and the health of the community as a whole, listnookors deserve to know these things if listnook wants to retain the level of dedication and trust it receives from its users. Thanks for your time! Edit: My thanks to /u/Achievementunlockd for the gold.
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AchievementUnlockd Jun 4, 2016 +16
I am certainly open to such a policy discussion; I can't speak for the rest of the team and to be honest, I'm so new that I don't know what would be involved in such a policy amendment. I'd have to do some internal investigation to see if I can even think about that; I suspect legal would be involved, because that's typically just good policy. With that said, what you've suggested seems (at least on surface) to be reasonable. Of course, as such, I am duty bound to write and amend it until it's no longer reasonable.... :P (joking, simmer, people, simmer!) I'll dig around and see what I can find out.
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sloth_on_meth Jun 3, 2016 +124
/r/rocketleague is literally run by the devs. also, admin distinguish pls
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retnemmoc Jun 3, 2016 +306
Hey /u/spez Do you mind answering [this question](https://www.listnook.com/r/AskListnook/comments/9clji/where_did_my_post_about_searscoms_urlhackable/c0c98im?context=1) now? You told us to check back with you in a few months. I think 6 years is sufficient time. Here is the History for those that don't remember the glorious [F*** Sears Incident](https://www.listnook.com/r/TheBookofListnook/comments/h3pm9/i_history_the_fuck_sears_fiasco/). I am still interested in the real story behind this and think it fits perfectly in the "darkest secrets" thread. Also interested in what entities or corporations (if any) have that kind of power over listnook today and could actually get a post taken down globally.
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EliteMasterEric Jun 3, 2016 +192
As a CSS mod on /r/StevenUniverse, I very much dislike the push towards m.listnook.com, mainly because of the spoiler problem. Obviously we don't want to restrict discussion of new episodes of the show, but we simultaneously want to keep the experience "pure" for those who haven't watched, giving users an option to avoid spoilers while still enjoying the sublistnook's content. Our solution has been to completely ban NSFW content and reskin the tag as a Spoiler tag. This has a couple consequences, the main ones being: 1. If you have NSFW posts hidden you won't see spoiler posts. 2. If users look at m.listnook.com this reskinning is disabled. 3. Sublistnooks that want to do this must completely ban NSFW posts, since you cannot tag a post as both NSFW and spoilers, and you can't just leave NSFW posts or spoilers unflagged. I would love for moderators to have the ability to enable spoiler tagging on sublistnooks to make the experience more consistent and keep people from PMing us asking why our sub is filled with NSFW tagged posts. This is a concern for many TV show sublistnooks, and in fact many sublistnooks that center on content that can be spoiled (like comic books or movies). Do you have any word on when these problems may be addressed?
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pcjonathan Jun 4, 2016 +8
/r/DoctorWho and /r/Gallifrey mod here. I entirely agree. We need a proper spoiler tag system. That said, we don't use the NSFW idea. We explain why in the rules: >We specifically do not NSFW threads unless they are NSFW since these threads are entirely hidden to all unregistered and registered users by default. It is also confusing to some people due to obvious reasons Likewise, we don't do CSS tricks on titles because these don't work on mobile or outside the sub. Instead, we rely on the users making their titles non-spoilery and either use selfposts or turn thumbnails off, which is normally easy enough to do but annoying to enforce. Anyway, my follow-up question to /u/spez is....why is Listnook such a d*** to spoiler prevention? Movie, TV, Comic book is such a HUUUUGE part of the Listnook community, I'm amazed that there isn't even basic support. Hell, most third-party apps have support for the most common spoiler tags and (at least) until the official app implements it, I will never recommend it to anyone. Or even flairs. Listnook has a button that specifically asks where I want the flair to go (which is used for spoiler warnings), yet it doesn't go there when not on the sub.
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KnightLunaaire Jun 3, 2016 +34
...
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LigerZeroSchneider Jun 3, 2016 +11
/r/RWBY doesn't use nsfw to cover spoilers because they were sick of people asking about nsfw posts about high school girls. Didn't seem like a big deal until I was scrolling though a multi listnook where the custom spoiler tags don't work and fan art spoiled the episode.
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Rafe Jun 3, 2016 +8
At /r/Undertale, we faced that dilemma as well, and our solution, until last month, was to have a spoiler post flair with a custom thumbnail. NSFW content was forbidden because we have minors, but we didn't repurpose NSFW as "spoilers" because we didn't want to confuse people about the purpose of "NSFW". Of course, our spoiler thumbnail didn't show up to mobile users, so many of them marked their posts as NSFW anyway because that's how they knew the thumbnail would be hidden to them. But then it wouldn't be hidden to desktop users. This is probably why you caved in and repurposed NSFW on /r/StevenUniverse. Users also proposed, from time to time, that we cover up the titles of spoiler posts like some other subs do so that they could be allowed to have spoilers in the title, which was strictly forbidden regardless of post flair. However, if we had implemented that, the disparity between the desktop and mobile experiences would have been even worse. So we didn't do it. Finally, three weeks ago, Undertale was out of the spotlight long enough that our subscriber growth had slowed to a tiny trickle. We were confident that very few new players of Undertale were seeing our sublistnook, and we did away with the spoiler rule and flair entirely. A couple users bemoaned not being able to show the sub to new players anymore, but most users liked not having to tiptoe around spoilers anymore. /r/StevenUniverse is in a very different position as a fandom that is still absorbing releases. I saw that you've had it especially hard lately because some SU episodes were broadcast in France first. I read people like [Storming the Ivory saying "we gotta ditch spoiler culture"](http://stormingtheivorytower.blogspot.ca/2016/04/fandoms-are-not-your-pr-department-lexa.html), but then I look at your situation and wonder how you could possibly do without those safeguards. Issues like this would be so much easier for mods to deal with if the desktop and mobile (both web and app) experiences were more harmonized.
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Georgy_K_Zhukov Jun 3, 2016 +108
Reaching out to the Admins for stuff has been incredibly hit or miss. I've reported seriously abusive users through /r/listnook.com and never gotten a response, and then brought minor matters up and heard back very quickly. I also recently detailed by issues with your [AMA support](https://www.listnook.com/r/ModSupport/comments/4hgxqk/does_anyone_actually_monitor_amadatalistnookcom_or/), and while publicly complaining *did* solve my immediate issue, /u/krispykrackers is gone, and that is no guarantee things are actually getting better. I know that there was recently a few new hires, but could you go into a bit more detail on how the Admin team is working to improve its ability to interact with mods and assist them in what they need?
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AchievementUnlockd Jun 3, 2016 +104
I hope you don't mind if I jump in and take that. I'm one of the new hires, and I'm Director of Community. It's a real issue, and one that was called out specifically as my immediate #1 priority, so that's how I treated it. I don't want to denigrate the team that was here - many of them are still here, and form the backbone of the team that I have now. They worked hard, in good faith, but they were woefully understaffed. In the last 30 days, though, we have worked through most of the backlog (it's now about 20% the size it was when I joined) and we're handling new inquiries almost as they come in. I'm also looking at some potential restructure of how we staff that particular workstream, which should help. We're also paying a lot of attention to ticket deflection, that is, providing users with the resources they need before they write us at all. That's a hard question, and I've got a staff member detailed to work exclusively on that. We've staffed up to handle AMAs, as you know, and one team member will eventually put 50% of her time into those (she needs to learn the rest of the work as well, and that's her first priority - the backlogs). I think the issues with response time are largely in the past now, and if I do my job right, we can keep it that way.
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Rohaq Jun 3, 2016 +30
There's obviously been some controversy about your statements about [knowing listnookors' darkest secrets](https://www.listnook.com/r/videos/comments/4lmfmj/ceo_of_listnook_steve_huffman_about_advertising_on/). While I expect a certain amount of tracking and/or ads going on on free sites, the alarmist response over such a vague statement in somewhat expected. I think people (including myself) would appreciate some transparency on how our information is being used: * What information is collected? * What is it used for? * Who is it made available to? * How securely is it stored? * To what degree is it scrubbed and/or anonymised?
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +16
Here's one: r/tattoos is moderated by a complete jerk, who violates every rule the sub is supposed to hold itself to, is rude and hostile to posters, and who delivers a perma-ban at the drop of a hat and with absolutely no recourse. I've been banned for over a year, because I had the misfortune of being cursed at by another poster and quoted his statements to me in a subsequent post, as an example of how NOT to behave. That poster and I made up, said nice things about each other, and all was well - until the ban-hammer from the main mod on that sub. Who, when I inquired about the potential of lifting the ban, proceeded to berate me with the same language that I DIDN'T EVER USE that got be banned in the first place. More than once. I've been in contact with other mods, and while they are sympathetic, they are apparently so afraid of the guy that they won't cross him or, in the one time one tried to defend me, buck his absolute rule. What gives with that, and what do you think you can do about it?
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JaguarGator9 Jun 3, 2016 +12
Do you have any plans to revise the sublistnook request function? Right now, I'm trying to get a sublistnook that was created after my name (/r/JaguarGator9) and was created by /u/Ragwort, who created the sublistnook 5 months ago and has done absolutely nothing with it. It should be noted that Ragwort has created over 800+ sublistnooks named after other Listnookors that he has done nothing with. However, because he's technically active, the request by the bot was denied. Any plans to change this so that it requires that a mod be active on that particular sublistnook in 30 days, and not just on Listnook?
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +378
[deleted]
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Made_you_read_penis Jun 3, 2016 +77
Can we have a mod removal "mutiny" button for when a mod is out of control and fighting the rest of the team? So far from what I understand you can't remove a mod without them being inactive. I've seen people talking about this issue before. Sometimes you think you have the right person for the team and you just really really don't.
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[deleted] Jun 4, 2016 +20
[deleted]
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +45
are you guys gonna do anything about the new algorithm? Breaking news like shootings still take an hour to get to the top of /r/all also, /r/all/top is pretty much frozen in time because of the new algorithm. I want to see it change over time like many others
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +401
[deleted]
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Drunken_Economist Jun 3, 2016 +893
it's a full time jorb
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spez Jun 3, 2016 +846
Please remember to distinguish comments written in official company capacity.
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[deleted] Jun 3, 2016 +58
[deleted]
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remzem Jun 3, 2016 +57
What's your guys policy on payed actors on listnook? Things like Putin bots, that Hillary pac that was paying people to "correct" internet message boards. Do they fall under the spam / payed advertising policy? Or are they allowed since they aren't directly selling things? Do you have methods of tracking that kind of activity?
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simple_ciri Jun 3, 2016 +52
Why do you allow certain subs to ban people who post on one sublistnook from so many others? I don't browse much on this account except p***, but if I posted in the gamer gate sub, even posting that I disagree with what they say, I would get banned from like 30 subs without any interaction with them. I mean, seriously, what the f***? How is that allowed?
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