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For Sale Mar 31, 2026 at 1:54 PM

Arrival - Why doesn't Louise remember the phone call?

Posted by Dazzler_3000


Rewatching Arrival and had 2 questions about the ending where Louise has the conversation with General Shang at the gala. 1. If Louise is seeing the future, why does her future self not remember that she made the most important call in history? I thought maybe it's one of those things that the future she see's changes based on her decisions so until she's actually made the call it hasn't happened yet but Shang is aware of it so she should be too. 2. Why is Shang exposition dumping and giving her his phone number? This seems like one of those things where he's been told 'You're going to meet this woman and its important you tell her this and give her your private number' but not sure that lines up with how we know the film to work. I saw a post a while back about someone asking if Shang also learnt the language or perhaps someone on his team did? (Which kinda doesn't make sense either as he wouldn't have needed Louise to change his mind he would just know not to attack). No huge deal either way but given how meticulous Villeneuve is I'm guessing it does all make sense and there's something I'm missing.

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Most-Degree1886 Mar 31, 2026 +18
The nonlinear perception thing gets tricky but I think Louise experiences those future memories more like flashes or dreams until she actually lives through them - so the phone call memory only becomes "real" once she's in that moment at the gala
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wabawanga Mar 31, 2026 +9
I think that as she starts to understand the language, she gets flashes of the future.  Only once she becomes fluent does the future fully open up to her.   Once that happens, Louise experiences making the phone call and talking to the general about it simultaneously. So it is the same Louise who just had her mind blown by experiencing nonlinear time for the "first" time who is talking to the general.    
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jboggin Mar 31, 2026 +3
Yep that's it exactly. On a rewatch, you realize it's clear that what seemed like flashbacks on first watch are clearly brief flashes of the future that Louise doesn't understand. She doesn't fully realize until she becomes fluent at the very end that what she's seeing is the future, and until she becomes fluent, she has no control over the flashes she sees.
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OPtig Mar 31, 2026 +3
That can't be exactly right. During the events of the film, Louise is seeing the future clearly enough to remember the exact phone number and specific dying words of the general's wife or she would not able been able to make the call. The 'future memory" did, however, only resolve clearly at the moment she needed it and not a moment before. Does it fade away again until she meets the general? There's always going to be holes in a time loop.
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Broad-Marionberry755 Mar 31, 2026 +8
She doesn't remember every future event of her life and the events come to her memory sporadically >Why is Shang exposition dumping and giving her his phone number? This seems like one of those things where he's been told 'You're going to meet this woman and its important you tell her this and give her your private number' We can assume Louise told him that on the initial phone call
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Goldpanda94 Mar 31, 2026 +5
Its been a bit and correct me if im wrong but Louise isn't seeing the future there. She finally understands the Aliens and she is experiencing all of time at the same time non linearly. So in the movie, she hadn't called the General yet, but then jumps to the future Louise and the General telling her that she called him and she told him on that call the instructions he is relaying to her now. Then she has the number and the message she needed to tell the General in the past to set up that encounter. She doesn't remember it because she hadn't done it yet. She has her fingers in multiple timelines at the same time
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OPtig Mar 31, 2026 +3
As far as I understand this isn't quite right, there's a single linear timeline that Louise is experiencing non-linearly. Louise, for example, does not experience a timeline where she fails or decides to not have a child. The timeline is linear and immutable. Yes, there are always holes in timeline loop plots.
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Goldpanda94 Mar 31, 2026 +2
Yeah i agree with you shes simultaneously living the different times along that timeline
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jboggin Mar 31, 2026 +2
Yep, and the Ted Chiang story Arrival is based on goes into way more depth on how time works. You're right that the timeline is linear and immutable. She can't change the future, nor does she have any desire to. There's not really free will in that world, which the story describes beautifully. So she always has to have the child, get divorced from Ian, watch her daughter die (in the story she dies in a way that makes all this much clearer, but it wouldn't have worked for the movie). Time is causal in Arrival, so the future conversation with Chang simply has to happen that way because that's what enables the early conversation with Chang, which also HAD to happen that way in that linear timeline.
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OPtig Mar 31, 2026 +1
Thanks for sharing. You did hit a interesting point about free will in this situation of a linear timeine with the gift of foresight. The movie suggests to viewers that Louise makes a choice to marry Ian, lie to him through omission and lose them both and that she believes the love and temporary relationship was worth the loss. She even says to her daughter to explain their breakup "Dad feels I made the wrong choice". Do you think the message that Louise chose the love/loss route with the benefit of hindsight or is the truth that she never had a choice at all since time is linear?
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Serious-Manager2361 Apr 1, 2026 +2
She made the choice knowing what the future would be. She made it because she loved Ian and she wanted to have their child even though she knew her life sould be short and they would all suffer pain, and that Ian couldn't or wouldn't have made that choice if he had known the outcome.
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OPtig Apr 1, 2026 +1
So there is free will and Louise just happened to lock onto choices that fit the film’s plot?
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Serious-Manager2361 Apr 1, 2026 +1
I mean that's a deeper discussion, but she can make her own choices, just as we can. So I guess she still has free will? The only difference is she has insight into what the future will be when making those choices. But the future she sees cannot be changed, so is it really free will? She cannot change the future or the choices she has already made, but she can change her present choices. I'll admit it is confusing! But what a great movie that we are still discussing it years later! I am gonna watch it again this weekend!
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Serious-Manager2361 Apr 1, 2026 +1
Yes, well said. Time is immutable, meaning she cannot go back and make different choices. But she can understand the future in order to make better choices in the present.
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RyzenRaider Mar 31, 2026 +3
It's like a language. Just because you studied Eye-talian for a few months doesn't mean you know all the ins and outs and have a fully integrated understanding of what everything - including intonation, rhythm, colloquialisms, etc means. You're gonna fumble it, and use it imprecisely at times. Louise is only just starting to grasp the non-linear experience and gaining some control of it, but she's not fluent. So she was able to 'find' the right moment, but had to play out the future memory in real time to get the answer she was looking for. I can see how General Shang put 2 and 2 together. While he is clearly cautious and conservative in military policy, he is never suggested to be an iditio. Firstly, he would have overheard her on the phone arguing with others about the phone call and known she was doing so against orders. Given that even Halpern didn't have Shang's number, I imagine it's a number Shang controls for just his inner circle. But Shang at the future party would understand by then that Louise experiences time non-linearly, so showing her his phone number and quoting his wife's dying words equip her with the knowledge to convince him in the past. And making that connection would make him one of the smartest characters in the movie. I think Shang would have studied the language, but I don't think he ever integrated it in the way Louise did. So by the time they meet, he understands its effects, but never experienced them himself. But having said that, the language only unlocks the prescience once you start learning it. Louise didn't always know the general's number *until* the end of the film when it - according to the hypothesis mentioned in the film - had sufficiently rewired her brain. And since Louise was the first one to do it, no one else had achieved that level of fluency yet.
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UnbuiltIkeaBookcase Mar 31, 2026 +3
*Gorlami 🤌*
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RyzenRaider Mar 31, 2026 +2
A river derchi!
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grumblyoldman Mar 31, 2026 +3
>If Louise is >!seeing the future, why does her future self not remember that she made the most important call in history? I thought maybe it's one of those things that the future she see's changes based on her decisions so until she's actually made the call it hasn't happened yet!< but Shang is aware of it so she should be too. I interpreted this as more of a "soliloquy moment" for the benefit of us, the viewers. The *real* surprise was >!Lousie-in-present experiencing her first *clear, lucid* "memory" of the future,!< and they showed this by having>! Louse-in-the-memory act shocked at what she was "remembering" even as she spoke to the ambassador on the phone.!< In truth, >!Lousie-in-the-future would not have been surprised, because she would have had all the time between "present" and "future" to prepare for that event.!< The facial acting (or "mugging") by Mrs Adams was for our benefit, not something that "really happened." >Why is Shang exposition dumping and giving her his phone number? Avoiding the bootstrap paradox. >!She needs to know the number in order to use it, but she can't know the number in the future if she was never told what it was in the past.!< The alien language >!changes the way people perceive time,!< but it does not actually >!violate cause and effect. You can't learn something you never knew by "remembering" a future moment where you had already learned it, there must at some point in between be a moment where you learned the information.!<
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jboggin Mar 31, 2026 +2
I disagree with the point about how Adams' acting in that scene is just to trick the audience. She experiences time nonlinearly, with every moment possibly occurring at once. So as she's experiencing the future moment with Chang, it's not like she's had years to prep and knows what she'll say. In that moment, it's occurring to her as a new moment rather than a moment she prepped for for 5 years because each moment she experiences can be "new" without the years between because she can potentially experience any moment at any time.
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UDPviper Mar 31, 2026 +2
If you dream about the future, your brain is going to treat it as garbage and you likely won't remember it.  Once it happens you'll get deja vu and be like holy shit I dreamed that.  
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UnbuiltIkeaBookcase Mar 31, 2026 +1
I want a future with a wife and kids so this comment just made me sad somehow 😅
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jboggin Mar 31, 2026 +2
Arrival is maybe my favorite movie, and a big part of the reasons why can--I think--help partially answer your questions. The first time someone watches Arrival, they assume Louise lost her daught before the movie ever started and she was having flashbacks to her daughter as she learned the Heptapod language. But then the amazing twist hits and you realize those weren't flashbacks at all and her daughter hasn't been born. The twist is great, but why I love the movie so much is that I think it's better each time I rewatch it because it works so well if you know the twist. Arrival, unlike a lot of twist movies, plays it honest with the audience to the point where, once you rewatch a few times knowing the twist, you'll start wondering how you EVER though those were flashbacks in the first place. The movie makes it very clear that those visions of a little girl come as she deciphers the language, and Amy Adams plays it honest...she plays those scenes like someone baffled and confused by what she's seeing, not someone remembering their dead daughter. That's a long way of saying that through the movie, Louise slowly develops the grasp of nonlinear time as she learns the language, BUT she doesn't know what's happening. She doesn't know who the girl is or why she's seeing what she's seeing. It isn't until the end when she is fully exposed to the entire language that she actually understands what she's experiencing. Consequently, the reason she isn't aware of the call until the end is that she isn't fully aware of what's happening to her until the end. The scene before the phone call is when she can finally live with nonlinearity and understand it, but that doesn't happen until right before the phone call (to show you she finally grasps the language and can control it, she has the line, "I know why my husband left me"). So yeah...there was no way she could know about the call until that part of the movie because she still hadn't fully immersed herself in Heptapod and was only seeing flashes of the future, while not even sure they were the future. \#2 is dicier, but it makes more sense if you've read Ted Chiang's story Arrival is based on (the two are quite different but also share a ton). The movie obviously can't get into this because it would have to be an entirely separate movie, but time is fixed in that world and cannot be changed. Louise experiences the future as what has to happen, but she doesn't try to change it (the movie changed how the daughter died because if they'd stuck with the book Villeneuve would have had to explain how time works, which would have dragged the movie to a screeching halt). So...Louise had the conversation with General Chang, and she always HAD to have that conversation because it's simply what's supposed to happen (it's a causal universe with arguably no free will, though the book explains it beautifully). And if the conversation with Chang HAD to happen and succeed, then that meant that the later conversation with Chang where he told her what she would say in the past HAD to happen that way because it had already happened from Louise perspective, and the past nor the future can be changed. I hope that makes some sense. I'm not sure I'm explaining it well! I highly recommend the Ted Chiang short story "Story of Your Life." I love both Chiang's story and Arrival equally, and they're great companion pieces because the movie is structured completely differently and has different plot points. The main thing I always tell everyone is they need to watch the movie BEFORE reading the story, and you've already watched the movie, so you're good to go :)
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Serious-Manager2361 Apr 1, 2026 +1
Great comments!
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pop-1988 Mar 31, 2026 +1
Your question is about "seeing the future" and an assumption that one thing happens before another The reason the movie is about a linguist is to explore the concept that linear time is a constraint bound by our use of language. The alien language isn't about learning to see the future, it's about time not being linear. Her "flash-forward" to the general giving her his phone number and his wife's dying words isn't a memory
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