This article tries to frame it like some innocent draft officers are attacked just doing their jobs. In reality the Ukrainian draft has deteriorated beyond any measure of sense. The "draft officers" are simply goons abducting people from streets with their faces covered, much like ICE. The abducted people are beaten and kept in inhuman conditions. The medical assessment committee rubber stamps everyone as eligible and in good health with zero care. There were many cases of people with epilepsy, diabetes, etc sent to front lines and dying in transit. I am a not a russia supporter, but even the military personnel hates the draft office at this point and says they have no right to also be called the military. All of this is based on first hand evidence from people I know personally.
173
baturik1284 days ago
+54
Yeah I remember there was quite a famous case (in Kharkiv iirc) where a draft officer was hitting a young male teacher on the street and it got caught on camera, causing some public outrage in the social media. After some time and investigation, the judge sentenced him to "personified home arrest", which meant he was forbidden to leave the house from 00:00 to 05:00, the exact hours of the curfew
It would be kind of funny if it wasn't so sad
54
[deleted]4 days ago
-12
[removed]
-12
baturik1283 days ago
A few good men - a movie you mean? No, I don't think I have
As for decision making, it is quite simple for most people. We are not in the Middle Ages anymore, when the enemy forces stood outside of your city and unless you stand between them and your family, your family gets killed. Russia has rockets and drones now, and your family does not receive any magical barrier protecting them from explosions or missile fragments if you sit in a trench somewhere on the other side of the country. So it might not sound very epic or brave, but the only way to ensure that your family is 100% protected from the war is to move your family to the safe countries, Europe or Canada/USA. A lot of people have done it and a lot of people are planning to do it, but it is probably not shown in patriotic movies
0
Financial-Grass-61144 days ago
+20
The problem is nobody wants to fight. No excuse for abuse but it comes from desperation.
War is ugly business.
20
[deleted]4 days ago
-14
[removed]
-14
Mistravels3 days ago
+2
You probably think the colonel was right 🙄
2
[deleted]3 days ago
-4
[removed]
-4
Mistravels3 days ago
+2
Wait, it's not clear:
Were you commending the guy (Jack Nicholson) who SAID "I ordered the code red" or the guy (Tom Cruise) who GOT HIM TO SAY "I ordered the code red" ?
2
[deleted]3 days ago
+1
[removed]
1
Mistravels3 days ago
+2
Ok good
But...
>A Few Good Men really opened my eyes to some of the inner workings that go on during a war.
>
>that is real stuff.
>
>You shouldn't judge people. Its not your job and its a bad look.
As a combat veteran and senior officer, I can and will tell you you don't know what you're talking about, and to f*** off.
2
MB40504 days ago
+5
At the same time, what are they supposed to do?
Unfortunately we western sods haven't picked our arses up and actually provided them with the unilateral, unlimited support they need to repel the russians.
5
VereksHarad4 days ago
-10
I second that. From the firsthand experience. I was drafted. Honestly I wasn't really beaten or mistreated because I wasn't drafted from the streets. But I know people who were. And you are right about military (or guardsmen in my case) not liking them. But I think that some of them are making excuses (stupid in my opinion) for their actions by stating " Well... Our boys/brothers need to be rotated. So we need people..." Honestly - f*** that. Army should be ENLISTMENT ONLY, no exceptions. You need more people - F****** recruit more people. They don't want to - cry me a river, not my problem. I want out.
-10
xX609s-hartXx4 days ago
+22
Any country that is getting invaded and has the time to do so will try to conscript as many people as possible. Don't act like it's something special or like they have any other option.
22
JesusFortniteKennedy2 days ago
+2
they suddenly have a choice when it comes to conscript women tho.
2
xX609s-hartXx1 day ago
-1
You guys really post the same comments every time conscription is mentioned...
-1
JesusFortniteKennedy1 day ago
+2
And yet you never answer
2
SuperRektT4 days ago
+11
And what will you do when you need more people beyond the "enlisted only" ones? Just asking since you are in the army which is of course interesting besides the shrill keyboard warriors here. And also, yeah, these people need rest aswell, even if its a dumb 5 day rotation per 6 months.
11
VereksHarad4 days ago
+5
Try to motivate people to enlist more. Try to give more benefits or something. I'm not really a politician. I don't really know the answer to that one. But what I know - grabbing people from the streets is not an answer. No other job ( and Military is a job) does that. No one grabbed people from the streets to be nurses when the COVID started. I don't think anyone grabbed people from the street to be firefighters in California when the fire started. If a city has a crime problem no one grabs people from the street to serve in the police force. Why military is the only job that is allowed to do that?
5
RedditintoDarkness4 days ago
+15
Military isn't just like any random job in an active invasion scenario, it's literally a fight for your life. If Ukrainians don't want to do that any more then it's time to sit down and agree to whatever terms Russia wants, is that your sentiment? If you're out of fight, then the outcome is surrender.
15
TurbulentRadish81134 days ago
+1
Ukrainian surrender to Russia means a high likelihood that Russia's far more extreme, brutal and deep mobilisation of occupied Ukraine will expand to currently unoccupied parts of Ukraine.
It's horrendous what Russia is doing. The republican betrayal of Ukraine was evil, and Europe's failure to send far more aid is a strategic blunder.
1
themathmajician4 days ago
+1
I'm not sure that incentives can scale sub-linearly for each person recruited, same way that punishment or force is forcing. I think this applies to anything that requires manpower to such a degree, which nurses and firefighters don't need.
1
UnknownPh0enix4 days ago
+26
On one hand, that’s a shit way to “recruit”. That is not how anyone should be doing it, period. On the other, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you live somewhere and expect to have its security and protection, don’t b**** when you’re expected to participate in said security and protection in extenuating circumstances. Don’t want to, move somewhere else to begin with. A lot of countries have a draft for a reason…
26
VereksHarad4 days ago
-16
I get what you mean. And you are somewhat right. I would like to participate in that, just not as a military. I'm sure that if they wanted to - they could find a way for me to help without me being in uniform. I don't really know how. But if they wanted to do that - they would find the way.
And about leaving - not everyone has an option to. I for example had a close family member who couldn't leave. And I'm was not going to leave her alone.
-16
Dingcock4 days ago
+18
If that was an option, wouldn't it be chosen by everyone? Which kind of defeats the entire purpose of a draft.
18
VereksHarad4 days ago
-6
"Some of you will die - but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make"...
-6
Dingcock4 days ago
+12
What choice does Ukraine have ? Just let Russia take it over ? Is that what you want ?
Ukraine doesn't have a choice in making that sacrifice, the choice seems to be resist or be taken over.
12
Chrissanxy4 days ago
-8
Is dying worse than living under an occupying government? Idk. You pay the ultimate price and for what. Now I'm far from a russia supporter, and I have somewhat of an opinion like yours. I'm curious as to how you see it.
-8
Dingcock4 days ago
+1
Fair point.
For the individual, it probably is worse to die however it's not a guarantee that you'll die. Most people that get drafted don't die.
However Ukraine as a country has to decide to resist or to give up for everyone, and I would suspect the best interests of everyone is to resist.
So I don't know.
1
CranksMcgee4 days ago
+4
You’re acting like this is some new concept humanity is facing.
4
Historical_Mad19174 days ago
+3
It’s not in the governments interest for you to die. Governments need people to run a country. Someone to work, to contribute, to procreate. You can see that Ukraine is a pioneer of unmanned vehicles, and now, even robotic ground vehicles are being introduced in combat roles. This technology just wasn’t readily available before. In 20 years, robots fighting robots will be normal.
But for now, as awful and cynical as it sounds, bodies are needed to plug the gap. Is it fair? No. Is it humane? No. But what other choice does anyone have? Do you think most people wouldn’t say the same thing as you do, „I want to help but not in the military”? Who’s gonna fight then?
3
VereksHarad4 days ago
+3
How about you? Do you want to sacrifice your own life to vanquish evil? Or maybe donate one of your own family? You know - it's easy to say things like that if it's not your ass that is potentially getting to die for the grater good of all of the country. I don't want to sacrifice my own life for the good of the country. And I don't want others to do the same.
3
Dense-Friend64914 days ago
+3
I don't think you can accuse Zelenskyy of being this type of individual. He could have fucked off to USA in the first days, but he told Biden he needs ammo, not extraction.
However, I do understand your point and I am sure the Ukrainian government is desperate in these situations.
3
Bruvvimir4 days ago
-1
Incredible that neckbeards sitting in their mom's hovels are downvoting this man's lived experience. F****** scum.
-1
Jvmatt4 days ago
+3
I confused too as to why. He's just talking about his experience.
3
DifferentAnalyst20014 days ago
+6
No one wants to go to war….. sometimes running away isn’t an option.
6
Mean-Housing81003 days ago
+1
[ Removed by Listnook ]
1
kickerofelves863 days ago
Now do Russia
0
fufa_fafu4 days ago
+49
Poor young men. No one wants to die in a trench. All the gravy seals cheering for otherwise are welcome to volunteer their fat asses to be droned.
49
MB40504 days ago
+15
Then we have to acknowledge that the only other option is that Ukraine surrenders to Russia. That's it, there's no middle ground.
Either the forcible draft is kept up and people are rounded up from the streets, or the war is lost.
I don't blame you for having the second take, or the first, but I find it hypocritical to support Ukraine and to expect them to rely on volunteers, of which there aren't enough.
If the Ukrainian population wants to surrender, that's totally fine, that's on them. But I don't understand these halfway arguments.
15
Kdave213 days ago
+3
I live in Canada, and if trump invaded, I would rather give the country over than die in a trench. My life is worth more than a political system.
So I can’t exactly fault Ukrainian men who fled the country to escape the draft or downplay their circumstances. Thats just me, others may have different perspectives
3
Evest892 days ago
+4
I would rather die in trench than live in country where all my freedom is taken away.
And i would demand that everyone does their part. I don’t feel like fighting for people who hide from their duty.
If all men would hide and not fight in democratic countries there would be only few massive countries with full of people with no rights under dictatorships.
In the end if you don’t fight for freedom your country will be taken eventually over by country who does not give a f*** and would keep fighting countries and eventually you or your children would get forcibly drafted.
4
Sebkl19 hr ago
+4
Why would I fight for my neighbours who don’t even share my language or culture? These aren’t my people, this country has become foreign to me.
The people and government have decided that I shouldn’t even be able to afford a home nor retire with dignity. 0 mandatory paid sick days in 12/13 provinces and territories. 10 days of vacation a year in 11/13. Low pay, no job security.
I wouldn’t fight for a country that’s never fought for me nor would I fight for people who don’t even belong to my culture or speak my language.
4
ConsciousCopy41809 hr ago
Uhh, but isn't diversity strength? Why wouldn't you die for that sweet foreign cuisine and that precious multicultural society where everyone is different and all is so good and fine? /s
0
gokdbarsgold13 hr ago
+3
Your heroic fanfiction falls flat once the first rifle round cracks by your head, I guarantee it.
3
No-Intention771 day ago
Who wants to die for a bourgeois state
0
Ok_Dust_862019 hr ago
+1
If russia comes, most Ukrainian men will be drafted anyway to participate in a future war against NATO. Believe me, everyone in Ukraine understands that (I live in Kyiv). So the tragedy of the situation in some way is that fighting for your country against invaders is actually a better long term strategy.
1
BallHarness3 days ago
This isn't some poor guy being drafted to fight in Vietnam. This war is being fought to defend the homeland on its own territories.
0
Geodiocracy4 days ago
-25
Nobody wants to die in a trench. Yet its bad luck if your country is in a existential fight and you are called up while others are already doing the fighting and dying for you.
As someone who has been deployed voluntarily several times. I don't pity the people who are drafted.
-25
VereksHarad4 days ago
+27
Crab in a bucket mentality is what it is. You want to fight - you are more than welcome to take my place in the military. And I will go home. You are going to do way more good than I do. And probably it will be easier to find find uniform for you then me.
27
Geodiocracy4 days ago
-2
Well that's just it.
No way you then get to bow out and let others do the fighting for you.
Exactly the reason I agree with a draft.
-2
[deleted]3 days ago
+1
[deleted]
1
fufa_fafu4 days ago
-13
>Yet its bad luck if your country is in a existential fight and you are called up while others are already doing the fighting and dying for you.
They have every right for a peaceful life, whether in their country, whether abroad as refugees, or through other means. It's on the leaders to demonstrate they have a clear plan to end hostilities and that the country is worth dying for.
>As someone who has been deployed voluntarily several times. I don't pity the people who are drafted.
So you volunteered to kill people for big business. Yeah you're properly evil. It's a shame you're comfortable sitting in your basement while there are kids being forced to die in trenches. If God is real he would have swapped your place with them.
-13
DocCarbon4 days ago
+12
How is there a right to a peaceful life? If you have a peaceful life you should probably consider yourself lucky and be grateful for it and do what you can to keep it. But when outside forces that you have no control over take your peace away, you can fight for it, or flee and maintain your "peace"
Ukrainians are in an existential fight for their existence, and even though they didn't ask for it, it happened anyways. So much for their right to a peaceful life.
Many in the west grew up in a peace that a lot of people have never experienced and was built on the exploitation of others and the removal of their "peace". It's an idealized concept with little practical relation to our current planet and the species that lives on it.
You should fight for that concept though, it sounds like it's worth fighting for.
12
SnooTomatoes30323 days ago
+2
>Many in the west grew up in a peace that a lot of people have never experienced and was built on the exploitation of others and the removal of their "peace". It's an idealized concept with little practical relation to our current planet and the species that lives on it.
I think so many people in the west have been living an easy life and talking about their rights and stuff that they forget that as citizen, you absolutely have rights, but you also have responsibilities too.
The short and simple form is if you want the rights, you need to fulfil the responsibilities as well.
With the way the world is going right now, a lot of people are about to rediscover what their constitutions demand from its citizens.
2
Geodiocracy4 days ago
+1
Pretty much this.
1
fufa_fafu4 days ago
-21
And did you think prolonging the war without any clear goal when they will end the hostilities is preferable to young men sent to die? I survived a racial pogrom amidst what was almost a civil war in Indonesia that left me a refugee. I am going to get fucked if me and my relarives fought for either the government or the opposition. A government installed by the CIA, that is. Because no one wants to back down, since they both loved power.
Ukraine is losing. Their leaders should either sue for peace or, if they want to remain fighting, import the latest 5th generation jets or whatever. There is no use sending kids to die for things they KNOW useless. One more body will not stop a swarm of Russian drones.
>Many in the west grew up in a peace that a lot of people have never experienced and was built on the exploitation of others and the removal of their "peace".
And that makes it right somehow? Not everyone enjoys their tax dollars being send to bomb brown kids.
-21
bharring524 days ago
+1
They have sued for peace. The only deals on offer set Russia up for taking the rest of Ukraine "next time".
They are trying to import the "whatever" instead of sending troops. The tech simply didn't exist. So Ukraine is *inventing that shit*. They have taken positions with robotic forces. They are doing what they can. But they're one nation facing a much larger aggressor. They have only so much production. Russia has their own troops and NK troops. Ukraine is doing more than any other nation, and doing it with fewer troops. But the tech is only so good. You need boots too.
(Ukraine still hasn't lowered conscription age below 25. Russia's is 18.)
Maybe the Russians should just stop invading.
1
Maximum_Definition923 days ago
Russia doesn’t send conscripts to war, so it’s a hell of a difference. Conscription is held annualy as usual and the conscripts serve in the military for a year but they are not sent to a war zone
0
bharring523 days ago
+1
Russia says a lot of things. Since Russian conscripts have been fighting the Ukriane war, it seems unlikely that Russia doesn't actually use conscripts in the invasion.
1
Geodiocracy4 days ago
+1
If god is real he would have finished off the russians in the first year so we didn't have to have 3 more years of citizens dying to fight off an imperialist invasion. But here we are, and here you are advocating for some sort of fantastical utopia where problems are magically solved and no one should be forced to do their duty in defending their land.
1
[deleted]4 days ago
-6
[removed]
-6
Geodiocracy4 days ago
+1
Yep, that is bad f****** luck if you don't want to fight but you expect others to do the fighting for you.
1
G364 days ago
-24
I volunteered to fight narcos in my youth so yeah no sympathy from me. I would be a lawful but hard draft officer.
-24
[deleted]4 days ago
+3
[removed]
3
Geodiocracy4 days ago
+1
Nothing wrong with fighting professional cartel/drugdealers. I'd say that's definitely one of the morally easier fights to pick.
1
excital4 days ago
+3
Bragging about what a good draft officer you'd make is peak dork behaviour
3
Geodiocracy3 days ago
+1
By all means. Explain and enlighten us. Who is bragging that they'd make a good draft officer and did you come to that conclusion.
1
excital3 days ago
+2
Uhh, the guy i replied to saying exactly that?
2
Plus-Leather-73504 days ago
+20
Why don't they just draft women instead?
20
Shoondogg4 days ago
+3
So much of it is fought via drones now, there’s not really any reason not to (if you’re going to have a draft at all).
3
Hresvelgrr3 days ago
Maybe because most war-supporting talking heads on the internet are women (I mean regular civilians, not money-siphoning volunteers and paid officials provided with guarantees they won't go fighting themselves). Guess what's going to happen when they'll start getting dragged into buses. Plus, protecting oneself (a man) is one thing, but protecting your girlfriend or wife who gets attacked by an unknown gang in masks is quite different and will certainly trigger more support from people on the streets, try to imagine how messy it can get.
0
[deleted]4 days ago
-32
[removed]
-32
FlyingCapibar44 days ago
+14
Why force drafting anyone (men) is an answer?
14
pasture2future4 days ago
-16
Why is drafting women your answer?
-16
Epyr4 days ago
+12
Because they need people to fight and it's only fair that women are included as well. Why do you value men's lives less than women's?
12
pasture2future4 days ago
-16
Why should women go instead of men? Why do you value womens lives less than mens?
-16
Agreeable_Addition484 days ago
+8
Because the stock of young men has been exhausted and there's loads of young women to fill the gaps
8
Epyr4 days ago
+14
Both should go, who's arguing only women should go?
14
VereksHarad3 days ago
+1
I think neither should go if they don't want to.
1
GreatScottGatsby3 days ago
+1
They did in ww2 and it worked out just fine
1
VereksHarad4 days ago
+19
Yeah. I'm in the National Guard of Ukraine. And even in here we don't like draft officers. I personally don't think that other people with me hate them enough. But even the most loyal people don't really like them, even if they are making excuses for their behaviour.
I personally think that they are scum and traitors. They are hunting their own people. They are walking in body armor and with AK on the streets of the city when they detaining people... For protection, they say. From f-ing who? People with pocket knifes?
19
MB40504 days ago
+1
What do you think should be done? I'm serious, as a westerner I don't really understand the full picture.
My understanding is that Ukraine has severe manpower issues, and the only way to try filling holes is by having a national draft, there aren't enough volunteers.
Therefore I understand that the options are either keeping the draft or surrendering.
Are there other options?
1
VereksHarad4 days ago
+8
Honestly - I don't know about other options. But I think that punishment for draft officers that are a "little bit too zealous" and "overstep their authority" will go a long way to restore the good will of the people. And I mean real punishment. Not a slap on the wrist. Honestly - that should be what they did from the start.
You do understand that regular people are talking up arms against their own army? Do you understand that this is fucked up.
8
sansaset1 day ago
+1
Why does Ukraine even have manpower issues? I thought their reporter casualties are quite low and they’re inflicting 10:1 ratio on Russia in most cases.
1
G364 days ago
-35
Stop larping, "I'm in the NG of Ukraine" lol
Draft officers where switched to combat vets in like 2024 so they take it personally, and yes they are tough on draft dodgers.
"Hunting their own people", hunting draft dodgers.
It's a crime. Dodging the draft is a crime, making up medical conditions is fraud, and yes Donnie Trump should have been in Vietnam.
There's a reason ukraine is now pushing for EU countries to send back many draft dodgers, I don't know who you have spoken to but draft dodgers who fled the country are hated more by ukrainians living in Ukraine than any draft officer.
Again, stop larping, embarrassing.
-35
anachronistic_circus4 days ago
+21
> Draft officers where switched to combat vets in like 2024 so they take it personally, and yes they are tough on draft dodgers.
While there are some actual combat vets, most of those guys are ones "with connections" or money to buy that "assignment"
we don't know what u/VereksHarad actually does, but he's not wrong
21
DifferentAnalyst20014 days ago
+10
It looks like he is a gamer who about 10 days ago started posting as if he was in the Ukraine Military…… I think he sits in front of his computer all day and plays computer games. Not sure he is actually in Ukraine military
10
VereksHarad4 days ago
+4
You mean - in the military? Or in general?
I'm going to be clear - i never saw any combat. And not planning on. I was "limited eligibility in war time" since the age of 17. Now rebranded as "eligible for service in the rear" ( I'm too lazy for translate and type the whole thing). And I worked hard to get a psychologist to "recommend" for me to serve unarmed, even if it is basically cutting my salary in half.
4
[deleted]4 days ago
-11
[removed]
-11
VereksHarad4 days ago
+16
I wasn't hiding it. Not once am I claiming to be heroic veteran or some shit. I'm sitting in the rear. And planing to sit in the rear for the foreseeable future. That's doesn't mean that I'm not in the military. I wasn't in the military until I was drafted nearly two years ago. And? What is your point?
16
Thernungulator4 days ago
+7
He's in the military, he's just in a rear, logistical, or perhaps territorial position. Not everyone in the military is gonna be sitting on the frontlines.
7
VereksHarad3 days ago
+1
Territorial position actually. At least I think that this is what it's called in English. Basically I'm guarding a place that technically is important enough to have national guard be stationed to guard. I would say "security of facility". But I think that it gives it to much of importance to the thing that I do.
1
G363 days ago
-1
No, he admited they only trained him to shoot, he is a reservist in ukraine which isn't like reserves in the US. No basic training, no real training. Probably hasn't even worn the uniform.
-1
VereksHarad3 days ago
+2
No. I didn't not say that. I said that I never shot a gun outside of Basic Training. And that is refuse to serve armed. That only means that I did not see a moment of combat. I'm in the rear, guarding useless stuff. I'm wearing uniform right now.
2
G363 days ago
oh yeah? show pic
0
VereksHarad4 days ago
+19
F*** off with that shit, ok? Your bootlicking pathetic. I don't care about what they feel about draft dodger. Why should I care if they take it personally. Like my former boss liked to say - it's their personal sexual drama. I'm not larping anything. I don't want to be in the guard. But i am. And I'm not happy about it.
19
[deleted]4 days ago
-16
[removed]
-16
VereksHarad4 days ago
+10
Not really. Stolen Valour is if I was claiming to be a hero or a combat veteran. Which I'm not, and I will be the first person to correct you. I'm sitting in the rear and never shot a gun outside of Basic Training.
I'm not seeking validation or anything like that. Not from the likes of people like you.
10
G364 days ago
-17
You a reservist, you tried to use your reservist position to bolster your argument. It is Stolen Valour.
-17
VereksHarad4 days ago
+10
I'm not a reservist. I'm serving in the rear. Guarding shit in the country, not on the front lines. Reservists are people who got out of the military and are in reserve to be called back when needed.
But also care to explain why you have a profile picture of Ruslan Zinin? For a person who spouts such a nonce - your choice of picture is interesting. You look like a "glowy"...
10
G363 days ago
+1
I can smell you a russian-speaker, not ukrainian speaker. How's that for being sus, huh?
1
VereksHarad3 days ago
+1
You do understand that a lot of Ukrainians are speaking Russian? Oh what a shock 😱 person who has parents who speak russian speaking russian... What next - Irish person speaking English instead of Gaelic? A person from Ivory Coast speaking French? Oh the humanity....
It wasn't even common for people to make a conscious decision to switch to Ukrainian until 2014 at least. And it really became commonplace in 2022.
1
Awkward_Research15734 days ago
+2
lol with your history I wouldn’t be talking about Stolen Valor my man. Typical armchair general posting in ncd behaviour I guess.
2
G363 days ago
"My history": Marine vet, owns guns considered a unicorn in the US because of my military connections, was a high level poster in fosscad and diyguns because of my gunsmithing knowledge. Been on listnook for more than a decade... Yeah, total larp next to a guy that admits he isn't even military as is just signed up as a reservist. LMAO
0
Awkward_Research15733 days ago
+2
Not what he said and you’re sprouting bullshit.
Sureeeee the Americans love Mexican-Germans being in their military.
You are a pathetic joke. Pls don’t move to Europe
2
[deleted]2 days ago
+1
[removed]
1
baturik1284 days ago
+2
I'm not sure where you got the info that ukrainians living in Ukraine hate ukrainians abroad more that the mobilisation officers, it is simply not true for like 99% of my social circle. Some are indeed jealous that other people can live their best life travelling in Europe while we are living under constant drone attacks, but it is nowhere near the hate the people feel towards the draft and all that comes with it. We have a saying "Fish searches for deep water and people search for the best life", so it is seen as a natural thing, some people got the opportunity to leave the country and get the QoL upgrade, they took it. On the other hand, stuff that is happening in regards to mobilisation can not be justified so easily
2
G363 days ago
+1
I'm done listening to civilians. They will never get it and they're the reason this war is taking so long. The draft is like a vengeance from people like me to all nihilists.
1
baturik1283 days ago
+2
emm, what? Our (Ukrainian) army currently consists of like 80-90% former civilians, who did not have any military career or prior combat experience, so it doesn't make much sense
As for why it takes so long, the amount of weapons/equipment and just basically money Ukraine has at it's disposal is not enough to do much. It doesn't give you a morale boost when you hear stories how our guys are being sent on an assault mission and for every 10 artillery shell that russians fire at them our own artillery can only respond with 1-2 shells, because even after 4 years of full-scale war Europe still didn't "wake up" and can not produce shells at the same rate as russia or NK does (of course thanks for the aid, but you know what I mean)
2
VereksHarad3 days ago
+2
Yeah. That. But also how they were stalling in the begging with restrictions on how Ukraine can use the weapons. Asking Ukraine now to use them against targets in Russia out of fear of escalation. They still fear that. Remember when a drone struck house in Poland and how no retaliation came out of it?
2
VereksHarad3 days ago
+1
> The draft is like a vengeance from people like me to all nihilists.
Oh. How heroic... Vengeance against people who did you nothing wrong.
1
G363 days ago
+1
hey about that pic... and don't try to use AI I'm a god at smelling fakery.
1
[deleted]4 days ago
-1
[deleted]
-1
G364 days ago
+2
> speak to actual ukranians for once
Tak, most support the armed forces, the draft and Zelenskyy.
2
DarkMatter-Forever3 days ago
-1
The downvotes are quickly showing who’s larping here
-1
G363 days ago
+1
Ah yes... The ultimate test of truth; *the downvotes* even tho the guy admits below that he is indeed a larper.
1
Imaginary_Toe89824 days ago
-14
Sure.. like the devil reads the bible..
-14
VereksHarad4 days ago
+7
What? Can you explain what you mean? I don't think I follow that....
7
Imaginary_Toe89824 days ago
-4
Sorry i accidentally posted on the wrong comment. Someone said that ukraine is strictly following their constitution...
-4
VereksHarad4 days ago
+5
Oh... Yeah. I get it. We have a saying " Strictness of the law is balanced with the fact that it's optional to follow it." Government will follow the law only when it's beneficial for it.
5
IrishWarhog3 days ago
+2
Russian bots all here today aren't they
2
macross19844 days ago
+6
Yup, being a draft officer is a thankless job akin to old British Navy version of press gang where British officer and sailors were sent out to forcefully draft any British subjects that happen to be in wrong place and time. Sometimes they even "drafted" non-British because they looked British but were released once they prove their identity.
6
WindChimesAreQuiet4 days ago
+13
> Sometimes they even "drafted" non-British because they looked British but were released once they prove their identity.
The Royal Navy impressed more than 10,000 American sailors during the Napoleonic wars. And once someone in this period was taken against their will, how would they have ever had an opportunity to prove their identity, even if the British officers cared?
13
Certain-Use-21493 days ago
+2
"thankless job" - in Ukraine they are doing it for the bribe to let you go and for extortion. You should check some non-government telegram channels and see what the poor draft officer is driving outside of work, mainly brand new German SUV's.
2
Hresvelgrr3 days ago
+1
No wonder history repeats itself when many "military advisors" are from the UK))
1
frozenpissglove4 days ago
+3
It’s super shitty. You wanna be Russian? No? Then your options are pretty limited. War f****** sucks.
3
Joice_Craglarg3 days ago
+3
I'd rather be Russian than a corpse in the mud.
3
Hresvelgrr3 days ago
+1
People who didn't want to have anything in common with Russia already "spoke" about 12 and 22 years ago. Now many of them are living abroad for some weird reason and they don't seem to be eager to get back and join the fight.
1
Jumpy-Candle-12744 days ago
+2
One of the issues is that a lot of the draft officers are taking bribes to let people go and enrich themselves, and/or working with local criminal elements to enrich themselves, and ignoring people’s medical exemptions, etc.
It’s hard to fix though and I don’t have any good ideas to fix it- even with advanced technology, wars need people, and people understandably don’t want to go to die in the front lines. But if they don’t, Russia wins.
2
kickerofelves863 days ago
+1
Russia bots out in force here
1
Cloudhead_Denny4 days ago
-10
If you have to draft people to your cause, your cause has exceeded its limits. That's just the way it is.
-10
Immediate_Move_37424 days ago
+7
By your logic Britain would have surrendered to Germany in 1939.
7
Imaginary_Toe89824 days ago
-45
this won't stay for long.. that breaks the propaganda that everyone is willing to die for their dictator president (yes dictator no election in sight for loooooong time). People are hunted like dogs on the street while the rich kids live outside of ukraine...
-45
Ok_Poetry_26964 days ago
+40
>(yes dictator no election in sight for loooooong time)
That's not how reality works bro. The moment Ukraine was attacked the country went into state of emergency.
Having political rallies in wartime is idiotic to the point of parody.
40
Imaginary_Toe89824 days ago
-19
United stated had election during civil war..
-19
Sea-Housing-34354 days ago
+16
Ukraine is not the US during the civil war. They are following their constitution.
16
Maximum_Definition924 days ago
-26
No they are not. Constitution of Ukraine does not say that the predisent is to stay in power during the state of emergency. It does not forbid holding presidential elections in this state. And no, there is not much danger in holding rallies in Ukraine now, while people continue living their everyday lives
-26
Sea-Housing-34354 days ago
+23
It says the elections can't be held under martial law, martial law was approved by the vote of the parliament after russians attacked. Ukraine is in the state of active war with russia occupying some of its territories.
23
Geodiocracy4 days ago
+4
Dude. Get real.
The Verkhovna Rada holds a vote every 6 months about whether to continue the martial law.
Every 6 months, they vote to continue things as they are.
All the parties, all the representatives of the Ukrainians.
4
Ok_Poetry_26964 days ago
+15
"United stated" ( lul) had 1 president from 1933 to 1941.
Holy f****** cherry picking
15
Imaginary_Toe89824 days ago
-15
ooh yeah because now it's f****** world war 3
-15
Geodiocracy4 days ago
+3
What the hell does this response even supposed to achieve?
Like dude. Was the US attacked on their home states, by a far larger, numerically superior foe? Did they have like 3 percent of their population in the trenches within their own states?
If not, then stfu. The two are not the same.
Ukraine is fighting a whole different war.
Cunts pretending the Ukrainians should hold elections, are doing putin's work for him.
3
bappestinian4 days ago
+7
Did the Confederates have missiles and drones?
7
Sufficient_Mind_48914 days ago
+1
And UK didn’t during WW2
1
Eigetsu4 days ago
-4
In reality it's puppet regime which have objective to destabilize Russia further. The West fuel that war until Putin die and chaos inside Russia start. It's easy to stay in defence with drone warfare, it will be even more easier when arms supply chain get to full speed. Zelensky and his masters of course don't care about human lives, it's just a little price for winning the game.
-4
Mindless-Peak-16874 days ago
+26
f*** off russian troll
26
Imaginary_Toe89824 days ago
-1
Reality will set eventually..
-1
Sweet_Concept22114 days ago
+15
Jesus, you must be swollen like a tick and beet red from all the Russian koolaid you are drinking.
15
SuperRektT4 days ago
-18
Terrible soviet management and treatment of people. It won't get any better over time.
-18
EaRLyHawk9244 days ago
+10
But Ukraine has been "fighting everything Soviet" for many years now, hasn't it?
10
ReneDeGames4 days ago
-1
Yes and no, it started really corrupt with lots of Soviet practices instilled, and while it has been making moves toward being better it has a long ways to go.
-1
EaRLyHawk9244 days ago
+3
Then why does the commentator above explain current actions using "soviet management and treatment of people"?
3
ReneDeGames4 days ago
-2
Because that's where they were starting from, and there is still a reflex to resort to it.
-2
EaRLyHawk9244 days ago
But you yourself said that "...it started really corrupt with lots of Soviet practices instilled, and while it has been making moves toward being better..."
0
Eigetsu4 days ago
it started corrupted and now even more corrupt and also broken.
0
zIFeathers4 days ago
+4
Random listnookor would know
4
SuperRektT4 days ago
-10
Prob more than you
-10
PisakasSukt23 days ago
-8
Good, God willing the Ukrainian fascists will be defeated and Zelenskyy and his croneys in the NATO puppet government will face justice for their crimes against the Ukrainian people.
-8
STP_Fantasma4 days ago
-12
Any Ukrainian who is able bodied and of age refusing the call is a certified LOSER
-12
BroadResearch12834 days ago
+3
Are you on the frontline?
3
External_job134 days ago
-1
Its easy for you to say with your keyboard while you take a shit, you are the loser your mentality shows that, i bet your reply will be your a marine and have been deployed to 7 different wars, yeah sure man
162 Comments