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I am probably not the only one thinking this but I thought I should mention it. In the Boys S5 Episode 1, Black Noir 2 is shown not talking and acting like his predecessor, with The Deep just shrugging it off as him doing method. However, me personally, I thought of 2 possibilities. Either 1, somehow old black noir survived and replaced the new one (Doubt it), or the second, the one that I posted this for, like the comic, Black Noir is a clone of Homelander. It's possible that Vought (Or Sage), saw how unstable the actual Homelander was becoming so they made a contingency, where they silenced Black Noir 2 and cloned Homelander disguised as Black Noir, and whenever needed they would kill Homelander with this clone, or maybe for a similar reason in the comics (Never read them lol). In the trailer, we saw a clip of Homelander in the oval office, just like the comics. So is it possible Homelander meets a similar end to his comic book counterpart where he, Black Noir Clone and Butcher fight, then Butcher proceeds to try to kill all supes on the planet with the virus? Either Homelander dies like that or he is depowered and forgotten, because before A-train dies he laughs to Homelander about how he is nothing without his powers. To him that's probably a fate worse than death. Anyways I think that theory could be a reason why Black Noir 2 isn't talking like he always does. If it's Sage who did this, this could be how she dies in this season.

77 Comments

kirby2000 Apr 9, 2026 +41

The whole point of him being a clone in the comics was that Homelander wasn't a mass murderer and didn't assault Butchers wife. Homelander went insane because he kept seeing all these images of him doing horrible things that he didn't remember doing. He was still evil, but less so. In the show, he is clearly responsible for all the terrible shit you see, so there is no point in using the clone theory.

Reno18_99 Apr 9, 2026 +3

I don't believe the clone thing is happening but I mean, there's no need to keep the actual point of the clone theory from the comics to adapt and repurpose it in the show in a different way.

Billis3811 Apr 9, 2026 +4

Im gunna go out on a crazy thin limb and say its Maeve in disguise. She’s waiting for the right moment to strike!

Living-Study-3826 Apr 9, 2026 +3

Homelander can see through his costume though... you don't think he'd spot Maeve in there? He can literally see inside Billy's body... It's not going to be a case of Homelander missing something, he can see who's under there... the swap if there was one, is likely his doing.

Chrisjm15 Apr 11, 2026 +2

I think it's Polarity after Starlight knocked Noir out at the start of the 1st episode. He hasn't spoken since and now disappears for 3 hours a day. I think Homelander only uses his x-ray vision when required and if he's not thought to use it yet....

CupOCoop 5 days ago +2

We haven’t seen Homelander and Noir on screen together though. Maybe it’s Homelander weeding out the ones not loyal

Chigibu Apr 9, 2026 +2

It's Ryan.

lennoxjohnston Apr 9, 2026 +1

This is what im thinking glad im not alone

ButterscotchWorth879 Apr 16, 2026 +1

It’s not Ryan, Ryan is 5’8 ish. Noir is above 6 foot, and the deep is 6 foot tall, you can see when Noir and Deep is side by side that Noir is taller than Deep.

Nuc3435 Apr 18, 2026 +1

This is a superhero show. They could clone ryan and make the clone age faster than the real one

Darkw0lfx Apr 10, 2026 +5

My theory is that second noir did something stupid to tick off homelander or just not being as good as the original and then homelander did something to disfigure him Like maybe it's used to make deep see that A-train is right and that homelander will always turn on his allies regardless of how obedient you are The only reason I feel that way is Homelander would not be cool with the new noir suddenly wearing a zinc mask that he couldn't see through. Not with how controlling he's been and how untrusting he is to his own allies

kyleyeezus Apr 11, 2026 +1

Yeah I thought they shut him up because he wouldnt

GamingToFeel Apr 17, 2026 +1

The only thing that doesn't make sense with this theory is how he suddenly doesn't appear to have Narcolepsy, and they made a big deal about him randomly falling asleep last season.

Few-Gas-58 Apr 9, 2026 +3

Later in Ep 1/2, Homelander taunts and is talking to both deep and noir. If noir was somebody else, Homelander would have known instantly because he can see through stuff...so i don't support this clone theory...

Historical_Ad4905 Apr 10, 2026 +1

He can see skeletons not skin

Fabulous-Collar-230 Apr 11, 2026 +2

that's not true, x-ray vision in the show is just a metaphor not literally x-rays, in one episode with the OG noir he describes being able to see the details of his face and "crooked smile" under his mask

Wrong-Front430 Apr 11, 2026 +1

Comic Homelander who also had x ray vision couldn’t see through Noir suit and recognize that he looked exactly like him so I don’t think that’s a problem

OwlHairy9638 Apr 12, 2026 +1

It’s absolutely a problem because the show already established he can see Noir just fine. He knows him down to his facial expressions and mood. Suddenly not being able to see anything at all would be f****** stupid and lazy

KorgG29 Apr 9, 2026 +7

Guys, Homelander has X-Ray vision and had already said how he could tell what old Noir was thinking. And you think he’s just ignoring what SPOILERS could be his clone under the mask? No. Better theory I saw, Homelander got so fed up with new noir talking so much that he did to new noir what Soldier Boy did to the old one

DumbKylie Apr 10, 2026 +1

your comment is the most logical, since homelander really hated new noir's voice, he probably either threatened him with something or took his vocal chords out, or gave him brain damage. but the show likes to make us assume things that are wrong, so maybe they don't want us to assume that homelander killed noir 2 and replaced him with somebody else that's more dedicated to the role because it's the truth, which is probably unlikely. the actual thing that probably happened is maybe he really did find a way to shut new noir up. but what I believe and who I think it could be is Ryan, but at the moment we have no proof that it's Ryan, but it's 50/50 ryan or noir 2 silenced.

y4Yo723 Apr 9, 2026

Maybe... it could be a crucial moment for The Deep to betray Homelander, convincing him that he has become so demented that he's not just going to kill him if he continues to fail him, but making him suffer for it. Although I would the whole clone twist IF they can make it work somehow.

Puzzleheaded_Win6111 Apr 10, 2026

He couldn't kill hughie with his x ray vision last season

Rawrajishxc Apr 9, 2026 +2

They’ve already said they’re not going the clone route with Noir like in the comics, so it’s still a mystery as to who it’ll be.

ButterscotchWorth879 Apr 9, 2026 +1

do you have a source? id love to check it out

Elephantime911 Apr 10, 2026 +2

He's not talking so he can stay alive or to got the black Noir character better that's it

Elephantime911 3 days ago +1

Told yall

ikonoqlast Apr 11, 2026 +2

I think New Noir is actually an imposter. Something happened/was done to Noir 2.0 off screen.

Charlie_Brodie Apr 16, 2026 +1

him not talking points this way. Im thinking a starlight ally has taken his place

Secret-Luck-3920 Apr 8, 2026 +2

That would be wild if they're actually going with the clone angle from comics. The whole "method acting" excuse did feel pretty weak when Deep said it - like who just suddenly stops talking completely for method? Your point about Sage making this as contingency plan makes lot of sense too, especially with how paranoid she's gotten about Homelander's stability. Would be crazy twist if Black Noir 2 we're seeing isn't even the same guy anymore.

Emoneylildominator Apr 10, 2026 +1

Bare in mind BlackNoir was talking to Polaris in GEN V S2

Pump_and_Magdump Apr 8, 2026 +1

Who stops talking completely out of method? The guy who's playing a character who cannot talk and therefore is not allowed to talk in public at all. We have already seen enough of the personality of black noir 2 to pretty clearly establish that he is an actor and is a fairly normal dude. I don't think for a second he will turn out to be a clone of homelander, largely because that whole story line was repugnant and over the top edgy in a way that doesn't fit the more grounded television show.

ButterscotchWorth879 Apr 8, 2026 +1

It’s been about canonically 8-10 months since Season 4, so therefore 8-10 months can be a lot of time for Noir 2 to learn how to stop talking. However, the reason i think this isn’t the case is since Deep is surprised he stopped talking, like it happened all of a sudden.

Bloodotomies Apr 9, 2026 +1

it's been longer than 8-10 months, they literally said they spent just \*over\* a year in the interment camps.

Oh, my fault, i read somewhere it was 8-10 months.

something strange is going on with Black Noir and I am PRAYING we get the Homelander clone angle. I honestly think the clone shit is awesome but I know a lot of people hate it

Big_Development_999 Apr 9, 2026 +1

I think they hate it because of how they did it in the comics. In my opinion they should definitely do the clone angle. But do what they’ve been doing which is loosely follow the story and create a better original plot with it. This clone angle has so much potential and i hope they take the risk with it. Although black noir is acting insanely strange i find this super interesting and exciting. Its definitely going to be important later. Same with soldier boy not dying

Killing_god Apr 9, 2026 +1

THATS exactly what I was thinking

ArtMiner42 Apr 9, 2026 +1

Homelander probably just ripped his tongue out or damaged his brain. OR he likely is just shutting up out of fear that Homie would do the aforementioned things.

Argentinatiddies Apr 9, 2026 +1

Personally I have a theory. 1. We havent seen noir and Homelander together yet probably because noir is someone else and Homelandrr could easily see through the suit to snuff out an impostor. 2. Bare with me now, but what if after the fight with starlight, they killed the noir 2 guy and replaced him with Sam from Gen v to have a spy on the inside kind of. All he has to do is keep quiet and stay away from Homelander.

aesthe_thicc21 Apr 9, 2026 +1

I'm also thinking that noir got replaced by sam or jordan after the episode 1 fight with starlight. Biggest issue with that theory is that homelander can see through the suit

xiaobaimax Apr 10, 2026 +1

Not if Kate told him not to "see" Sam

immaculate_disgrace Apr 9, 2026 +1

I don’t think he is Homelander clone, if he is it would feel out of nowhere… as the show has deviated already so much from source material. I think the first Black Noir didn’t die (He is very resilient, i don’t think he will die from a punch through belly) and he took back the suit of second black noir, now he is the spy of Stan Edgar who is giving Billy Butcher the inside information… that’s how how knew that Hughie group is about to be executed etc

Dull-Jellyfish4052 Apr 10, 2026 +2

That's definitely a more possible theory. Mine was kind of just for fun

UltimateEnd0 Apr 11, 2026 +1

Black Noir II kinda acts like pre-brain damaged Black Noir I so it's possible he is a clone...?

Sharp-Standard7784 Apr 11, 2026 +1

First Noir also had V1 and those supes were more resilient so maybe it possible.

Unlucky_Ladybug Apr 16, 2026 +1

He did not.

Naive_Chemical1237 Apr 9, 2026

Definitely especially because he was in season 2 of Gen v, talking which takes places after season 4 of the boys

PotentialShop3153 Apr 9, 2026 +1

I think it could be Ryan, around 7:40 mins in the episode HL mentions the rumours about his son and Sister Sage says >!"no everyone knows Ryan....sorry he is at boarding school"!< after HL looks irritated. It could be they know he's Noir 3, and after flip flopping during S5 Butcher whether to use the virus he finally presses the big red button because they butchered the last remenant of his wife from from the world. Admittedly either way I hope they can flesh out the finale to a satisfying ending as it's been a great series, and I think the character progression has been some of the most relatable and "realistic" considering the setting I've seen in a show in recent time.

Ok-Breadfruit4079 Apr 10, 2026 +1

Just a dumb theory but what if Sam’s the one under the mask, doing undercover mission for the rebellion?

-TheTalent- Apr 10, 2026 +1

Im hoping they still do the clone angle somehow and make it work. Which means they won't

Beneficial_Split_261 Apr 10, 2026 +1

I really like that they made the black Noir replacement so freaking obvious and now we’re just guessing who it is. Like it’s clear this black noir season five is not the same guy from the last season. I don’t know if they did the first scene as a red herring where “oh starlight beat him and so he’s been replaced by Sam or Ryan or someone else” or maybe the other theory is right and he’s been replaced by Sage or someone else.

DonnieJamess Apr 10, 2026 +1

Any chance it could be Sam from Gen V?

Traditional-Feed-656 Apr 10, 2026 +1

I have a theory that it could be Maeve, after shooting herself up with V again. Homelander’s x-ray vision does throw a spanner into the theory but have we seen them share a scene together?

Comfortable-Can-2530 Apr 10, 2026 +1

Noir being a Homelander clone will be the worst writing ever because Homelander ( as he said in season 3 episode 8 ) can see Noir face under his suit .

Informal-Flamingo257 Apr 10, 2026 +1

i think either way, it seems like crappy writting cant be his clone because pliot point of it doesnt exist anymore, and homelander can see through the mask, and it cant be Gen V because in the fight he seems super weak Problem 1) noir is still unreliable Problem 2) homelander can see through the mask Problem 3) homelander would know therefor be ok with it Problem 4) it clearly a twist if they keep highlighting that "noir" cant talk anymore Problem 5) homelander is a nacrissist (so i dont imagine him having clone of himself)

Capital-Agent5076 Apr 10, 2026 +1

Not possible. This homelander can see under Noirs mask. He would see a fake fake noir a mile away.

Astrovite Apr 10, 2026 +1

Homelander can see through his mask. I'm not saying I think he's a clone but it could still be possible. If Vought can make people fly with their serum, then they can turn a clone of a white man into a black man. Again, I don't think it's that at all, I'm just saying Vought could for sure alter physical appearance to that level. I think BN2 might have been "scared straight" off screen by Homelander. So now he's fully embodied old Noir. And I think him sneaking off is to go to something acting related. Like theater, or improv class, idk.

Fabulous-Collar-230 Apr 11, 2026 +1

not sure how any disguise theories work with Homelander having already confirmed they can see through Noir's costume with the OG Noir, so if it a disguise for someone else he must know this

CARTI-DROPPED Apr 11, 2026 +1

Season 5 Black Noir is Ryan Butcher...i called it here first...cmon Ryan is the only contender to beat Homelander...what better way than to have him sneak as Black Noir the entire time just to help kill him just like in the comics but with an even better twist That's CINEMA

Successful-Youth-789 Apr 13, 2026 +1

dawg Ryan is 120 lbs soaking wet. you not see how massive the guy in the suit was? would just be horrible writing. it’s been a year between season 4 and 5. nowhere near possible for that sort of change with a character that 12 going on 13 with the year change.

CARTI-DROPPED Apr 17, 2026 +1

Ok and u act like people don't theorize about stuff before it's revealed...it could've happened and wouldn't have been terrible writing...it'd be the closest to the comics having his son kill him in noir suit instead of clone It dont matter new episode showed I'm wrong so u can relax U wanting someone to be wrong so bad is concerning

Successful-Youth-789 6 days ago +1

has nothing to do with wanting you to be wrong. you were just wrong. lmao there is a massiveee difference. wasn’t even being toxic other than maybe the “dawg.” Simply stating the facts presented and giving you the opportunity to reflect on your take.

caddy2311 Apr 12, 2026 +1

What if it’s Ryan?

AgnewsHeadlessClone Apr 13, 2026 +1

My guess is homelander took his tongue out to make him more like the original noir.

K1llj0y1234 Apr 15, 2026 +1

i think we're going to find out he cut his own tounge out when his mask gets taken off in fear of homelander. or a crazyer idea homelander removed his tounge off camara

Impossible_Tiger_470 Apr 16, 2026 +1

See a lot of people saying Homelander found a way to shut him up. But it could definitely just be him being scared and actually locking in.

PlainSmash 6 days ago +1

I'm having a theory, they are aware of the potential to create life V1 has, so to test that possibility vought already holds some old stock of V1 and they've tested it on the old noir, and now that is why he is acting the way he is, because he is quite literally the old Noir.

CupOCoop 5 days ago +1

I’m just saying we haven’t seen Homelander and Black Noir in the same screen all season. Either that or original Noir took V1 originally

Southern-Coffee4018 Apr 8, 2026

if he is homelander clone then how starlight overpowered him in the beginning ep1?

Acanthocephala-Away Apr 8, 2026 -1

Probably on orders to undermine homelander if he is clone

-1

SocietyChicken Apr 8, 2026 -1

Because he wanted her to

Chiefsmackahoe69 Apr 9, 2026

Honestly I think sister sage makes him think she’s giving him that shot that will make him immortal but really it kills him or takes his powers away

Own_Chemistry9226 Apr 10, 2026

My theory is maybe it's Andre Edit: Apologies to all, I had no idea the real life tragic incident that happened.

xiaobaimax Apr 10, 2026 +2

Would have been great. Unfortunately there are some very big logistical problems with that angle

Own_Chemistry9226 Apr 11, 2026 +1

What would that be? Edit: Shit! I did not know. I only started watching The Boys and Gen V a month and a half ago. I wondered why he didn't return but I figured maybe he had another role and couldn't be part of the show. That's sad, I had no idea. Just awful, poor dude.

New_Cartographer6117 Apr 8, 2026 -1

Iam thinking of the same s5 noir might be clone of HL

Living-Study-3826 Apr 9, 2026 +1

I'm sure they said they're not going down that route for the show as it is in the comics, too much won't line up now. Plus Homelander can see through Noir's suit with no problem. If it's someone hiding from Homelander it's pointless. He can see inside Billy's stomach, he's going to know if that's not who he believes it to be under there... their skin, inside them... It doesn't make sense that Homelander would just be like "Oh, they guy under Noir is me now" and be totally fine with that and not mention it.

Black Noir S5 theory (The Boys Season 5)

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