>His comments come on the heels of a report out this week from a team of researchers warning Russian and pro-Trump U.S. actors are amplifying and spreading disinformation about Alberta separatism in the hope of sowing distrust in key institutions and authorities, and undermining unity.
How shameful is it that for all intents and purposes "Russian and pro-Trump U.S. actors" are basically a single, undifferentiated mass?
194
TemporarySun3144 days ago
+85
its just reality.
and i doubt the US can feel any kind of shame, otherwise they wouldn't have elected trump twice...
85
GoodMix3924 days ago
+36
Yeah the evangelicals in the US see Russia as a supporter of what they call “Judeo Christian values”. Putin hates LGBT culture and immigrants, same as the weirdo Christian frat boys that surround trump. They (the Trump administration and Russia) want a future where the law (national or international) does not apply to them and oligarchs control all the wealth and are free to exploit the general population and destroy the environment for profit with no legal consequences.
36
aphroditex4 days ago
+21
New challenge: call them “Islamochristian values” instead.
We can make words up too.
21
greysneakthief4 days ago
+11
Abrahamic moral decay.
11
SigFloyd3 days ago
+2
I wonder they're going to start switching over to Russian Orthodox
2
GoodMix3923 days ago
+1
Pretty sure most evangelicals don’t know what Russian Orthodox is and may also struggle to find Russia on a map. They themselves don’t know what traditional Christian values are, last week one of them asked if the pope had read the Bible. It’s hard to tell if they are joking or not.
1
SnooCupcakes70183 days ago
+5
I doubt that he was actually elected. Very suspicious vote tallies and the likelihood of him winning every swing state seems extremely unlikely. I fully suspect eventually we will learn this was stolen via combination of foreign state actors and tech bros.
5
BlitzNeko4 days ago
+6
They didn’t, Pay close attention to foreign interference and sabotage going on in Alberta because that’s what happened in the US.
6
panischer-igel4 days ago
+1
to be honest, its hard to differentiate them at least when it comes to foreign policies
1
kataflokc4 days ago
+52
Oh, get it straight for once
Take ten seconds to look at the utter idiocy of the local pawns supposedly leading this thing and you very quickly realize that the Alberta referendum itself IS foreign interference
52
peepee2tiny4 days ago
+17
Of course it is!
And our treasonous Premier just got thr security clearance to see who all is being caught and who isn't.
Danielle Smith doesn't want the security clearance to stop the interference, she wants it to monitor who is being watched in her separatist groups.
17
Dash_Rendar4254 days ago
+13
You seriously have to be mentally unwell to get onboard with this “movement”.
Everyone should just laugh at them and move on….
Buuuut it’s Alberta and this is just par for the course unfortunately.
13
Cobs853 days ago
+4
No you have it wrong. Albertans don’t want to secede. It’s a fringe movement and is getting amplified every time someone says “oh it’s just Alberta” or “they are traitors”.
4
Dash_Rendar4253 days ago
+2
I get being frustrated, we all are but instead of ‘taking your toys home’ be productive, work together with everyone instead of just demanding things be your way.
Alberta isn the be all end all of Canadas economy. It’s only 15% of the total GDP.
It’s not like Canada would lose a whole bunch of oil. It leaves the country anyways.
Canada gets way less from Alberta than it does the rest of the country.
2
allgonetoshit4 days ago
+26
The referendum IS the foreign interference from the US and Russia. One of the leaders of the Albertan separatist movement is an American.
This is reason #56834590 why the USA will never be our ally again for decades and decades.
26
SillyGoatGruff4 days ago
+18
The alberta referendum **is** foreign interference
18
Old_Soc3 days ago
+4
Ummmmm.. he's about 16 months too late to come to that conclusion.
4
JarvisModeOn4 days ago
+12
Not surprising CSIS is flagging this. Any referendum with identity politics at the centre is basically a prime target for disinformation campaigns. The bigger issue is how quickly online narratives can scale before institutions even respond
12
TatarAmerican4 days ago
+8
All independence movements welcome foreign influence. See Khalistan or Kurdistan. Welcome to the club Canada.
8
TheMrCeeJ4 days ago
+3
If we go back you can look at Scotland allying with France to get interdependence from England. It was classic 'my enemies enemy ' stuff.
The difference there was it was more obvious, in the open, and led directly to wars. Now we have bots, disinformation and deniability. Thanks social media.
3
TatarAmerican4 days ago
But surely you prefer bot-fueled social media campaigns and referendums over an actual civil war supported by major foreign powers?
0
emotional_program03 days ago
+1
Quebec would like to speak with you
1
Csirkevok4 days ago
+10
Surely, Russia would never do such a thing, right guys?
Right...? 🙄
10
[deleted]4 days ago
-9
[removed]
-9
TheMrCeeJ4 days ago
+13
What do you mean they have their hands full? They have entire office buildings dedicated to troll farms, do you not think this would be near the top of their list of geopolitical instability targets?
13
[deleted]4 days ago
-7
[removed]
-7
Exapno4 days ago
+8
They literally wrote they would do this in their book Foundations of Geopolitics, you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.
8
[deleted]4 days ago
-5
[removed]
-5
Exapno4 days ago
+3
Russia doesn’t pick a side, they amplify both. Far left and far right simultaneously. The goal is distrust and polarization, not any specific outcome. Canada isn’t an afterthought either. Dugin’s Foundations of Geopolitics explicitly targets Canada for regional fragmentation. Alberta separatism is in the playbook. Bannon’s network and Russian influence overlap more than people realize. Same destabilization doctrine, different faces.
I already told you what the doctrine is called.
3
KingofLingerie3 days ago
+1
the vulnerability is coming from inside the house.
1
razordreamz3 days ago
+1
Very vulnerable. There js a large rural voting group that wants separation. The rest of us do not.
Normally a vote would easily fail. But so many other groups like the US are now influencing things:
1
Royal-Hunter38924 days ago
-10
Alberta , Quebec, British Columbia.
-10
cheat_bot3 days ago
+3
> British Columbia
lol what
3
frugaleringenieur4 days ago
-49
There must be a reason if the majority wants to. If if’s a loud minority, let them vote.
-49
Rbomb884 days ago
+13
Not if they find those reasons through false facts from foreign propaganda.
13
frugaleringenieur4 days ago
-21
You can always bring that up as an argument. In the end it's the people's voice that counts. The more the people is neglected, the more it raises up.
-21
panischer-igel4 days ago
+33
what if the reason is totally detatched from reality as groups are spewed with unreasonable claims in targeted social media propaganda ?
33
skibbin4 days ago
+26
Ah, so you've heard about Brexit.
26
Prestigious_Load16994 days ago
-16
What if you’re denying the will of the people by suggesting they lack the agency to determine the future of their own government?
Do you believe in democracy only when its outcomes are acceptable to your belief system?
Maybe you’re the propagandist trying to manipulate the masses.
-16
panischer-igel4 days ago
+1
No, we have no good alternative to democracy, but it starts failing massively as manipulating the masses is easier than ever. Democracy can only work if voters vote for their own interests. There is many street interviews about politics i watch and the realization is, hardly anyone interviewed has any idea what kind of policies they support by their vote even. Everything populistic is based on emotions rather than reasoning.
The amount of people on social security voting to lower the tax for rich people and reduce the payments for themselves is staggering, but maybe I just misinterpret that and they really want to own less and have rich people own more? Maybe we should just accept everyones wish to live in poverty lol
1
[deleted]4 days ago
+1
[deleted]
1
Prestigious_Load16992 days ago
+2
Alberta votes for independence.
Germany votes for exterminating six million Jews.
These are not in the same multiverse.
If you don't believe in democracy then just say it.
2
tleb3 days ago
+1
Some people are so stupid I do sometimes doubt democracy long term.
Like so stupid and so easy to trick into working against their own best interest. Im not sire its viable sometives. I also dont know of an alternative.
1
frugaleringenieur4 days ago
-18
It sure is, but if there is enough hatred against the establishment, the propaganda has it's seed of truth that the change is wanted by the people. There is only one sane way out: the establishment must treat the people better - what they fail.
-18
tleb4 days ago
+16
F*** that. Even a no vote hurts us.
Look at how the referendum made Quebec a pariah in international trade. They still haven't recovered.
Your opinion is short sighted and uniformed.
16
HighlyInconvenient4 days ago
-39
Alberta doesn't want to leave Canada.
This is the thing people don't understand about the referendum. The Albertans (and multiple other provinces around them) want to renegotiate their local controls over their own affairs.
Canada has a "top down" leadership system. They don't have the same level of separation that states have out here in the United States. Because of that they are constantly being sidelined by the more liberal Ottawa leadership which has completely disregarded the fact entire economies in Western Canada are run on fossil fuels.
That's their entire economy.
These provinces don't want to leave Canada. They want to be able to manage their own issues locally since they've been ignored by Ottawa. They want a "United States of Canada" where each locality has powers unto themselves to handle their own issues.
Alberta is a top 3 producer province for Canada. Yet Ottawa sucks up their local dollars and redistributes them while claiming that Albertans are somehow a problem. They're being leeched off of.
-39
FreddyandTheChokes4 days ago
+8
Provinces are quite autonomous already. That's why each province has has different tax structures, social services, education, etc. As for Ottawa disregarding fossil fuels, the Trudeau government bought and supported a pipeline in Alberta. Seems pretty supportive to me. Wanting accountability for the fossil fuel companies to clean up environmental damage, or orphaned wells, or carbon production doesn't mean they're against one of their largest economic drivers.
In addition, provinces keep the tax revenue and royalties raised of their industry. Ottawa doesn't "suck it up" and Alberta doesn't send Ottawa their "local dollars." The provinces don't send the government any money directly for equalization payments, that's not how it works. It's pooled from all of our income taxes and distributed to provinces that don't meet the expected tax revenue that they could be reaching. Alberta is still keeping the money they generate from their own industry.
8
SillyGoatGruff4 days ago
+6
If the average albertan secessionist could read they'd be very upset by that
6
cyclemonster4 days ago
+26
These things ebb and flow. Alberta barely contributed anything in the 80s and 90s when oil prices were low, and prior to 1960, Alberta regularly _received_ Federal transfer payments. I guess we should have said no back then?
26
HighlyInconvenient4 days ago
-26
"When oil prices were low."
And now they're not and Ottawa is taking advantage of them.
Again, Ottawa locked themselves into a situation where they were made subservient to the United States' economy and the moment Trump cut them off they were left in panic mode. On top of it they have allowed foreign immigration which has further strained their hospital system and increased housing costs across Canada.
All of the secessionist pushes occurring right now come from the fact that Ottawa refused to invest in Canadian domestic manufacturing and refused to built strong and long lasting trade agreements with other foreign parties.
We're now at a point where Canada as we know it may implode because they refuse to accept one province cannot unilaterally rule the whole of Canada under a universal standard. It doesn't work.
-26
SillyGoatGruff4 days ago
+10
All the successionist pushes come from ~~the fact that ottawa~~ right wing manipulation
10
cheat_bot3 days ago
+3
> and multiple other provinces around them
> These provinces
which provinces besides Alberta
3
therealkaypee3 days ago
-1
Downvoters are from outside the province. No one willing gives up their own right to elect their government
-1
frugaleringenieur4 days ago
-34
That’s the pretext to politicially go against the wish of Alberta’s people. Let them have a fair referendum.
-34
Bad_Day_Moose3 days ago
+7
> go against the wish of Alberta’s people
a small minority of people
57 Comments