It’s always projection - the admin screaming about free speech elsewhere just wants to distract from their own efforts to curtail it
613
Fit-Let81755 days ago
+140
Remember that Nazi Germany also had free speech provided that the speech was in praise and favor of Hitler and the Nazi party.
140
fredbubbles5 days ago
+54
They want the freedom to lie to us and not be called out on it. They don’t care about your average citizen’s right to free speech.
54
tonic6135 days ago
+133
DHS will argue:
No full First Amendment rights abroad: John Doe is a Canadian resident/citizen outside the U.S. The government would cite cases saying foreign persons abroad generally lack U.S. constitutional rights.
Administrative summons power is broad: they do not need probable cause for an administrative summons. Under Powell, agencies generally need only a legitimate purpose, relevance, information not already possessed, and procedural compliance.
Not retaliation for speech, but an inquiry under customs/homeland-security authority, and that Google, not Doe, was the summons recipient.
The big challenge for DHS is:
summons reportedly relied on 19 U.S.C. § 1509, a customs-records statute, while Doe lives in Canada, has not entered the U.S. since 2015, and the demand sought broad Google identity, location, activity, etc… That makes the “legitimate purpose” and “relevance” defenses look weak.
133
BasicPhysiology4 days ago
+25
Thank you, that is great insight.
I expect we will later learn that this administration is using the levers of power to identify, and then dox names of their 'enemies' to their white nationalist supporters, in furtherance of stochastic terrorism. Attacking people outside of the US using lawfare, or targeting them online with attacks and disinformation is a likely tactic. Like this DOJ, the DHS has no care about the law.
25
BodaciousFerret4 days ago
+11
DHS ain’t winning this unless they find a very sympathetic, very braindead judge. Even if this guy is associated with undeclared cross-border imports, it is the importer who is required to ensure all the customs declarations and fees are handled. His identity won’t help HSI figure that out at all.
11
Morat204 days ago
+2
I've got some bad news for you about a specific federal judge in Texas, and the 5th Circuit as an appeals court.
The ones that aren't brain dead just don't believe in federal law or the US Constitution.
2
willun4 days ago
+4
>No full First Amendment rights abroad
Though the first amendment makes no mention of limiting it to US citizens.
4
luvalte4 days ago
+7
It’s the abroad part here. The Constitution requires the US have jurisdiction, and while the US has jurisdiction of **anyone on US soil** and, in some instances, citizens living abroad—think tax law—it has no jurisdiction on non-citizens outside the US.
So you must be **either** a citizen of or physically present in the US for its laws to apply to you. No, you don’t need both, but a Canadian not in the US has neither.
7
OkBuy47545 days ago
+230
Good. People need to push back legally when governments overreach.
230
Clearwatercress695 days ago
+74
That pushing back works out quite nicely in the US.
Hint: A convicted felon is still president and is seeking a third term
74
Ragnarawr4 days ago
+42
He’s also a big rapist, according to the files he’s suppressing.
42
James-W-Tate4 days ago
+45
Courts have already determined that Donald Trump is a rapist.
The files he's suppressing show he's also a pedophile.
45
Ragnarawr4 days ago
+4
Yes, of course, this is the president after all, I should have known better.
4
ImpulsE694 days ago
+3
Only the best!
3
Ok-Grand-14924 days ago
+1
And murderer and/or accessory to murder.
1
wickedsmaht4 days ago
+2
Supreme Court shadow docket: “LOL GET FUCKED. Beautiful little trumpty dumpty can do whatever he wants.”
2
KimJongFunk5 days ago
+251
If you cut out a man’s tongue, it is only because you fear what he has to say.
251
rockmasterflex1 day ago
+1
I mean he could also have had some kind of gangrene infection right?
1
lII1lIIl1IIll1Il11l5 days ago
+24
Canada should develop soverign search, citizens data should never be at will to the trump admin
24
KittySharkWithAHat4 days ago
+20
As a Canadian and for the record ICE can go f*** themselves and I hope I get the opportunity to tell them in person sometime in the future.
20
Fit-Let81755 days ago
+36
So, because of critical social media posts, does US Homeland Security not only plan on searching the Google data of a large population of Canadians, but millions of Americans, too?
36
phluidity4 days ago
+19
The idea is to make a very visible example out of a small number of people so everybody else will keep quiet so they avoid playing the shitty day l******.
19
im_just_thinking4 days ago
+9
Idk, hundreds of data centers and increasing disregard for human rights and constitution say otherwise
9
BobTheFettt4 days ago
+8
Canadian data laws are super weak too, so most of our data is already in data centres in the US
8
Fit-Let81754 days ago
+5
Is the very sensitive/classified data kept in a bathroom at Mar-a-lago?
5
BobTheFettt4 days ago
+9
Might as well be
9
Ok-Grand-14924 days ago
+3
They've got to find people to put in their "detention centers" somehow.
3
Worldly_Anybody_92195 days ago
+51
Friends don't let friends become fascists without speaking up. That's why Canadians are better allies than Israel. :)
51
[deleted]5 days ago
+52
[removed]
52
klaatu77645 days ago
+3
I would think that hate speech and a threat of violence warrants perhaps, depending on the circumstances, a response. Not everybody is so enamored with Americans hang-up on “free speech”.
3
the-fillip5 days ago
+9
US law precedent has already shown that hate speech is free speech there, so America has no legal justification for censoring it as far as I can tell. I think we may soon see the government claim that shitting on ICE is hate speech that needs to be censored, but we can't let them get away with that.
9
[deleted]5 days ago
+2
[removed]
2
klaatu77645 days ago
+1
Look up “fighting words”.
1
unfortunatelyhoemo5 days ago
+7
There’s things I wanna say but gotta protect my data.
7
versus_gravity5 days ago
+5
I do wonder how many agents now act as Stasi-style minders.
5
Aldo_says4 days ago
+6
>"An American tells a Russian that the United States is a truly free country because he can stand in front of the White House and shout, 'To hell with Ronald Reagan!' The Russian says that is nothing, because he can easily stand in Red Square and shout, 'To hell with Ronald Reagan,' too".
Yakov Smirnoff
6
Xanchush4 days ago
+4
Man they really want us to start a revolution.
4
creggor1 day ago
+1
They kinda do. Easiest way to declare martial law, and suspend elections— that kind of stuff. This timeline sucks.
1
firelemons4 days ago
+6
Reminder that google doesn't protect you or your data and you can do better.
6
Kirklistentowutang4 days ago
+5
F*** ICE. Trump is a pedophile. JD Vance is a b****.
5
azurepandora4 days ago
+8
United States of NK isn't just a joke at this point.
8
Darrenizer5 days ago
+9
Cha Ching. Also in unrelated news homeland security is a bunch of soulless scum bucket ghouls. …..
9
mattlore4 days ago
+3
The trump administration
The DHS for America
Infact America itself can all go f*** themselves.
3
Ok_Mathematician9384 days ago
+2
I kinda read through the article, but couldn't find anything about what this person posted online (they shouldn't have been trying to get his data regardless).
2
Addy_Rose2 days ago
+1
So...our laws regarding protection of privacy and such don't apply outside our borders, but "you said mean things and hurt my feelings" does? Wild
1
cribsaw1 day ago
+1
How do they look at people’s social media posts when they’re trying to enter the country? There’s no way that can be a quick process.
1
[deleted]4 days ago
+1
[deleted]
1
AnOkayMuffin4 days ago
+1
They don't like burner phones, either. They see that as suspicious and worth hassling you over.
1
ConceitedWombat4 days ago
+1
I know of at least one Canadian employer that is asking their employees to not take their usual work phone to the US. If they must take a business trip to the US, the instruction is to ask IT for a new burner phone
1
mattlore4 days ago
I'd be surprised if they even let you through.
Since it's a road trip, you don't have anything on paper to prove that you're not going to stay.
51 Comments