ListNook

As the 2020 election approaches, we are updating our [policy on political advertising](https://www.listnookhelp.com/en/categories/advertising/policy-guidelines/listnook-advertising-policy) to better reflect the role Listnook plays in the political conversation and bring high quality political ads to Listnookors. As a reminder, Listnook’s advertising policy already forbids deceptive, untrue, or misleading advertising (political advertisers included). Further, each political ad is manually reviewed for messaging and creative content, we do not accept political ads from advertisers and candidates based outside the United States, and we only allow political ads at the federal level. That said, beginning today, we will *also* require political advertisers to work directly with our sales team and leave comments “on” for (at least) the first 24 hours of any given campaign. We will strongly encourage political advertisers to use this opportunity to engage directly with users in the comments. In tandem, we are launching a sublistnook dedicated to political ads transparency, which will list all political ad campaigns running on Listnook dating back to January 1, 2019. In this community, you will find information on the individual advertiser, their targeting, impressions, and spend on a per-campaign basis. We plan to consistently update this sublistnook as new political ads run on Listnook, so we can provide transparency into our political advertisers and the conversation their ad(s) inspires. If you would like to follow along, please subscribe to [r/ListnookPoliticalAds](https://www.listnook.com/r/ListnookPoliticalAds/) for more information. We hope this update will give you a chance to engage directly and transparently with political advertisers around important political issues, and provide a line of sight into the campaigns and political organizations seeking your attention. By requiring political advertisers to work closely with the Listnook Sales team, ensuring comments remain enabled for 24 hours, and establishing a political ads transparency sublistnook, we believe we can better serve the Listnook ecosystem by spurring important conversation, enabling our users to provide their own feedback on political ads, and better protecting the community from inappropriate political ads, bad actors, and misinformation. Please see the full updated political ads policy below: *All political advertisements must be manually approved by Listnook. In order to be approved, the advertiser must be actively working with a Listnook Sales Representative (for more information on the managed sales process, please see “Advertising at Scale”* [*here*](https://www.listnookinc.com/advertising)*.) Political advertisers will also be asked to present additional information to verify their identity and/or authorization to place such advertisements.* *Political advertisements on Listnook include, but are not limited to, the following:* * *Ads related to campaigns or elections, or that solicit political donations;* * *Ads that promote voting or voter registration (discouraging voting or voter registration is not allowed);* * *Ads promoting political merchandise (for example, products featuring a public office holder or candidate, political slogans, etc);* * *Issue ads or advocacy ads pertaining to topics of potential legislative or political importance or placed by political organizations* *Advertisements in this category must include clear "paid for by" disclosures within the ad copy and/or creative, and must comply with all applicable laws and regulations, including those promulgated by the Federal Elections Commission. All political advertisements must also have comments enabled for at least the first 24 hours of the ad run. The advertiser is strongly encouraged to engage with Listnook users directly in these comments. The advertisement and any comments must still adhere to Listnook’s* [*Content Policy*](https://www.listnookinc.com/policies/content-policy)*.* *Please note additionally that information regarding political ad campaigns and their purchasing individuals or entities may be publicly disclosed by Listnook for transparency purposes.* *Finally, Listnook only accepts political advertisements within the United States, at the federal level. Political advertisements at the state and local level, or outside of the United States are not allowed.* \-------------- Please read our full advertising policy [here](https://www.listnookhelp.com/en/categories/advertising/policy-guidelines/listnook-advertising-policy).

191 Comments

mortalstampede Apr 13, 2020 +1030

What kind of political ads are you displaying? Do you mean something like AMAs? I'm in the UK so I don't know if there are other kinds of political ads that perhaps only US users see.

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con_commenter Apr 13, 2020 +860

The reason you haven’t seen political ads in the UK is because, as noted in our [advertising policy](https://www.listnookhelp.com/en/categories/advertising/ad-review/listnook-advertising-policy), we only allow political ads in the US. If you’d like to get a look at the types of political ads that have appeared on Listnook, please check out r/ListnookPoliticalAds, where we are recording and disclosing them for transparency purposes.

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[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +852

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matinthebox Apr 13, 2020 +304

At least in Europe, there are tighter rules for spending money in election campaigns, and also for donating to political parties. The market for political ads is tiny here. Also Listnook is still pretty niche in many countries and irrelevant in the rest.

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BeatMastaD Apr 13, 2020 +60

$$$$$ and other countries have laws about political advertising that are much more stringent.

shiftingtech Apr 14, 2020 +19

I don't know for sure, but it seems pretty reasonable to me that Listnook wouldn't have the manpower to keep track of political regulation all over the world. So they allow political ads in their home nation, but not elsewhere.

Awayfone Apr 13, 2020 +84

Are AMA political ads? That was a question buried in there

AnUnimportantLife Apr 14, 2020 +6

I think they definitely can be. Most politicians would probably argue they're a transparency thing, but really raising their own profile and trying to get votes is always going to be a motivation to do them.

Larock Apr 14, 2020 +33

Every AMA is an ad these days.

ISwearImKarl Apr 14, 2020 +5

Yeah, I also wonder about the boosting some candidates get. I'm sure, even though other countries don't get our ads, they all saw the Sanders Spam that made it to front page. Everywhere you went on listnook, there was Sanders. The only other candidate I saw on popular was Yang, and that was once. It was very uneven, for all candidates.

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +927

[deleted]

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bt4u6 Apr 13, 2020 +185

You really think anyone who matters at Listnook HQ cares about that? It's money. And lots of it. They will never turn down political ads

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[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +47

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +124

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mrsuns10 Apr 13, 2020 +58

> listnook and misinformation This goes hand in hand like Mashed Potatoes and gravy

Hautamaki Apr 13, 2020 +12

I think the idea is to get the political campaigns advertising openly; if its flatly forbidden there'll just be stealth ad campaigns polluting every sublistnook with more than like 50k American subs.

bebarty Apr 14, 2020 +19

That spread of misinformation was not through ads though, [it was spread through regular posts and comments iirc.]( https://youtu.be/soYkEqDp760)

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +4928

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con_commenter Apr 13, 2020 +2654

We expect advertisers to engage in the comments and want to give them a manageable amount of time in which to do so. With regard to the second part of your question, that activity would trigger a re-review of the ad and it would result in rejection.

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its_a_gibibyte Apr 13, 2020 +967

> With regard to the second part of your question, that activity would trigger a re-review of the ad and it would result in rejection. Can you clarify that part of your answer? Are you specifically saying that ANY change to the campaign, including changing the bid or budget, will reset the 24 hour period? Edit: after looking at the political ad policy, it doesn't say anything about an extra re-review upon bid/budget changes (and normal ads are not), and without this component, advertisers can clearly implement the strategy previously described.

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[deleted] Apr 14, 2020 +42

its_a_gibibyte Apr 14, 2020 +47

Yes, this is exactly the concern. Further, they could send their own people to go comment and upvote in it to give the illusion of wide spread support. Then once they ramp up the bid and budget, comments will no longer be required. Or, they push a bunch of campaigns and check the comments after 24 hours. If the top comment is good, they continue spending, otherwise they kill the ad.

Goolajones Apr 14, 2020 +105

The policy is useless without this clause. Assume any ad is misleading until you fact check yourself.

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caltheon Apr 14, 2020 +170

They meant to say only if they get caught.

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mxzf Apr 14, 2020 +111

And realistically, the Listnook admins are only going to "catch" them if forced to by uproar from the userbase.

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xxfay6 Apr 14, 2020 +32

It says that they're going through the sales team, this should mean that they're gonna be much more scrutinized. If you see this happen, then it's likely soft approved by listnook.

3party Apr 14, 2020 +50

>It says that they're going through the **sales** team OK >this should mean that they're gonna be much more scrutinized 🤔?

solistus Apr 14, 2020 +8

Scrutinized as in Listnook will definitely have seen and known about it, not as in they'll definitely do the right thing in response. Pretty sure /u/xxfay6's point is not "running it by sales first means we should be less skeptical of political ads on Listnook," but rather "running it by sales first means we should assume Listnook knew about any shady shit political advertisers wind up doing and chose to let them."

DoingCharleyWork Apr 14, 2020 +28

Why would they pay to advertise when they can astroturf for free?

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +601

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ballup4 Apr 14, 2020 +33

Agreed 100% While I don't agree with using the listnook "post" format for ads in general, blocking comments so we can't give feedback gives me the impression of why bother posting it and not doing a normal ad.

Leafy0 Apr 14, 2020 +6

I'm fine with the listnook post format being used for ads, as long as the post is appropriately flaired as an advert.

commander-obvious Apr 14, 2020 +7

There's a value in it, but that value isn't strictly always positive. Keeping comments open increases uncertainty. Uncertainty is a double-edged sword; people could denounce your product, or they could vouch for it. Open comments also opens up more susceptibility to manipulation.

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +794

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putnamto Apr 14, 2020 +16

this needs more upvotes, knowing wich of the candidates are doing shady shit behind the scenes, even on a site like this can tell you more than you need to know about the candidate themselves.

StartupTim Apr 13, 2020 +370

> We expect advertisers to engage in the comments I believe this is a flat out lie as you know that current Listnook advertisers rarely, if ever, enable comments to interact with users. Please be more truthful moving forward. Also, the first 24 hours comments on is highly manipulatable by small 24 hour push followed by larger. Lastly, this 24 hour only seems to be done SPECIFICALLY to allow advertisers to astroturf the add, rank their desired comments, then lock out further comments, creating the false impression of the astroturfed opinion being accepted. Horrible job here. You should be ashamed.

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zenthr Apr 14, 2020 +18

They "expect", not require. They tied it both to comments and advertisers engaging with the community so they could say it's "unreasonable" to demand 100% engagement (second part) and quietly associate that reason with just leaving comments on. Leaving comments on should not even be a discussion.

RangerNS Apr 13, 2020 +89

IT would be much easier to simply require them to have comments open for the time the add is up, +24 hours. If they want to put content into peoples eyes, they can engage the community.

AnUnimportantLife Apr 14, 2020 +11

Easier for Listnook; not necessarily for the advertiser. Someone's campaign team probably wouldn't want to spend too much time talking to people on Listnook, both because of the expense of having someone whose job is to keep up with Listnook comments and because of the reputation this site has among people who don't use it.

uniqnorwegian Apr 13, 2020 +81

To continue on this: These ads will most likely be targeted to the continental US, and not apply to me directly, but, for those with Listnook premium within the above-mentioned demographic that wish to engage with the ads mentioned in the original post, do not see ads. Of course this is a tiny selection of the Listnook user-base, but I suspect many of these are politically active, and wish to engang with their like-minded and counterparts on these campaigns. Will there be any way for these people to see the ads, other than looking at the active campaigns on the mentioned sublistnook?

Uristqwerty Apr 13, 2020 +11

On old listnook at least, whether you see ads with premium was a preference you could toggle. Though it'd be all ads or nothing, and you'd still need to seek out an explicit list to *only* see the political ones.

anonymoushero1 Apr 13, 2020 +51

Yes, we will now be offering Listnook Premium Plus! for a small additional fee you can have political advertisements added to your feed. /s

tomgabriele Apr 14, 2020 +7

> Will there be any way for these people to see the ads, other than looking at the active campaigns on the mentioned sublistnook? Can ads be crossposted? And if an ad was crossposted to a sub you follow, would it show up as a regular post, or as an ad?

chronic_couchlock Apr 14, 2020 +46

If you except advertisers to interact with people in the comments, then why not leave comments on indefinitely? The way this is structured clearly allows advertisers to cherry pick the comments they want to keep. What ever happened to free speech? Either All comments are kept on, or NONE. Stop catering to the politicians for $$$

InfiNorth Apr 14, 2020 +7

All they are doing is allowing the political advertisers get a chance to astroturf and then lock the ads to make it look like some real discussion happened.

chugmilk Apr 14, 2020 +5

They will interact: 1. Shill comments supporting the sponsored content 2. Downvoting anything opposing the sponsored content. That would ensure that they play by the normal rules that most "content creators" (reposting karma whores) play by: multiple accounts and vote manipulation.

[deleted] Apr 14, 2020 +46

CaptainPedge Apr 14, 2020 +68

> We expect advertisers to engage in the comments Well then you are VERY f****** naive

duffmannn Apr 13, 2020 +60

So will people who are banned from the sub be able to comment on the ads? Or will they be posted in echo-chamber subs?

proletarianuprising Apr 13, 2020 +447

Or paying shills and bots to flood it in the first hour?

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[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +322

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[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +170

CenkUrgayer Apr 13, 2020 +59

Of course! That's the Listnook way!

wqzu Apr 13, 2020 +345

Is this a policy for all political ads in the future or just the upcoming US elections?

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con_commenter Apr 13, 2020 +295

This update pertains to all current and future political ads.

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dirty_hooker Apr 14, 2020 +143

Off topic of this post but key to your future profitability. Give the users more diverse ads and the ability to downvote them to remove them from view. Ads should be targeted to users based on subs they participate in. Ads that are obnoxious to the users should be removed from que. Currently I scroll past ads of some trash pay-to-win apps that I AM NEVER GOING TO PURCHASE. This is a waste of the advertiser’s budget, an annoyance on the viewer’s part, and probably kills the value of your ad space when the bulk of users scroll past without engaging. Seeing the same political ads will be even more detrimental as a lot of users find them inherently appalling. Diversify, target, realign as needed. As for political ads, I realize you need revenue but think you should absolutely abstain from political ads in general. While Listnook is well known to have a mostly left leaning user base, the individual subs are still user controlled. Taking cash for political ads is absolutely going to gut any sense of objectivity you could pretend to possess. Accusations of Listnook stifling discussion that is harmful to your potential advertisers is rampant and openly believed to be evidence of censorship. JUST DON’T DO IT. Sell socks, heated turtle rocks, kazoos, novelty license plate frames, ceramic garden gnomes, and any other thing but you’re harming the free and open Listnook that the founders created when you get involved in paid politics. Don’t do it. You’ll only harm yourself; and in doing so, your user base.

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InfiNorth Apr 14, 2020 +8

>Don't do it What, earn mountains of cash? Why would Listnook care what pretty much every user on this site wants when the owners could get rich? I'm with you on every word that you said here. The admin doesn't even care that you typed it out, they'll never read it.

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +294

> *Issue ads or advocacy ads pertaining to topics of potential legislative or political importance or placed by political organizations* and > *Finally, Listnook only accepts political advertisements within the United States, at the federal level. Political advertisements at the state and local level, or outside of the United States are not allowed.* So issue/advocacy ads will not be allowed outside of the United States?

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con_commenter Apr 13, 2020 +158

Currently our policy only allows for political issue ads to be placed and run within the US.

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Gurnenthar2 Apr 14, 2020 +53

This is idiocy. The only way to stay out of the fact/fiction blender is to just refuse *ALL* political ads. We know who they are, and those with the maturity and intelligence will research on their own. Political ads are useless, no matter the medium. You say you want them to be truthful?! How long has it been since a political candidate was that truthful in an ad?! Or the other end, only trying to smear their opponent? Even in the debates they can’t tell the truth! Even if they *do* somehow manage to keep from telling an actual “lie,” they will still frame the information in a deceiving way, and to me, that’s still a damn lie. You invite poison, and wonder why people are vicious to each other... If you allow a single political ad, and we find out later that there was tampering on this site, there should be a class-action law suit. This thread is enough of a warning. You know what you’re doing, and it’s blindly taking money. Political ads have no place, anywhere, in their current form.

True_FX Apr 14, 2020 +11

Unbiased monitoring of the ads is impossible to do from a human perspective. As FBs Zuckerberg said, they tend to hire employees with liberal ideals who then censor political ads with a liberal bias. Listnook is going to wind up pushing a single agenda and the average American will falsely believe otherwise.

Tms2439 Apr 14, 2020 +5

More importantly though. If you want to go to a liberal/conservative sub then go. Most of listnook users just don’t care to see that c*** spread all over the site. Hell, I get on here more to get away from the social media, tv, radio ads. And all the ads are mud slinging now. I don’t care what side you’re on. They are all c***.

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +223

And what counts as a Political Issue? Equal Marriage Campaigns? Gender Recognition Laws? Charities that defend women's access to healthcare? Climate Change campaigns? I worry this risks nerfing more ads than Listnook might original intend to. Also, thanks for answering. :)

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PM_ME_YOUR_WIKI Apr 13, 2020 +47

“Issue” ads refer to ads pertaining to campaigns for something other than a political candidate. Like an initiative or something voted on by the people.

Wild_EEP_On_Reddit Apr 14, 2020 +12

I have never in my life, ever worried about nerfing advertisements. Why on earth is that even a thing?

_yellowCandle_ Apr 13, 2020 +393

If a political ad is submitted to Listnook and declined, will it still be posted to r/ListnookPoliticalAds with the reason why it was declined from appearing as an ad? Anyways, thanks for the increase in transparency.

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TooMuchRope Apr 13, 2020 +521

What attempts are being made to thwart bot related commenting and such on these ads that sway opinion in the comment section?

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con_commenter Apr 13, 2020 +115

Check out updates in r/listnooksecurity from our team on measures we’ve put in place to mitigate these threats - not only on political ads, but across the platform. In addition, we have some automatic measures in place to help remove comments that violate site wide rules.

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TooMuchRope Apr 13, 2020 +481

I am more concerned with upvote manipulation.

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HashRunner Apr 14, 2020 +150

Don't worry, they've been consistent in not giving a shit about upvote manipulation, now they'll just continue to ignore it for money.

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[deleted] Apr 14, 2020 +26

billthefirst Apr 14, 2020 +30

Because they don't have good answers for these. They won't answer questions that makes them look bad.

Boredeidanmark Apr 14, 2020 +32

But it’s not working, and that is well-documented. Astroturfing is more deceptive than advertising

crosstrackerror Apr 14, 2020 +32

Are you going to publicly disclose how the content on r/politics is purchased, manipulated, and controlled in the same way you are “transparent” about political ads? Edit: if you visit r/listnookpoliticalads, you can pretty easily see this site was effectively bought by the Sanders campaign

BottledUp Apr 14, 2020 +84

So you didn't do anything and hope your current, flawed system will work just well for the upcoming election.

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +804

Comment deleted with Power Delete Suite, RIP Apollo

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Mattallica Apr 13, 2020 +44

Im pretty sure the advertisers are the moderators of their promoted posts which is probably why most promoted posts have comments disabled, they most likely don’t want to, or have the time to, moderate all the spam comments.

dvinpayne Apr 13, 2020 +348

Great Question, If it's the advertiser this is a pretty meaningless change.

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NorthCarnival Apr 13, 2020 +145

Listnook said its the advertiser. Pretty disappointing.

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letsplayyatzee Apr 13, 2020 +144

It won't matter. The only ads will be listnook echo chamber pleasers.

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fight_for_anything Apr 13, 2020 +62

yea, any time a controversial topic comes up, the shitty mods on listnook like to just lock it and literally post a "yall cant behave" message. itll be interesting to see the clusterfuck of comments when mods literally cannot lock a thread, even its just for a day.

Cuthroat_Island Apr 13, 2020 +29

This question is one of the most relevant ones.

SaintPoost Apr 13, 2020 +435

Maybe not being a propaganda machine this year, or any other year, would be great. Ban all ads. The only reason you allow the ads is for the money they hand your business, and don't pretend it's because you want people to be more informed or anything like that. You know how many people listnook has hurt? All the witch hunts, the bots and troll farms, the deception and lies spread on a daily basis regarding not only politics, but any other concept under the sun? There's no transparency in any of the ads or the biproduct of the ads, it just hurts someone and makes someone else out to look better. It devolves into mudslinging every year, and the comments all get locked in the end anyway, every account becomes (deleted) and every comment [removed]. There's hardly ever conversation, and the people that want to engage in actual political discourse will not be using the ads to do so. It's high time you just forego the money and just blanket ban all political ads.

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Tensuke Apr 14, 2020 +61

Even if they banned all ads, it wouldn't help with the propaganda. Listnook headlines are pretty effective propaganda at this point. Many people don't read the articles at all, or even look at the comments. And those that do read the comments, or glance at the article, might miss comments debunking said headlines. So once it gets out there, it's out there, and hundreds, maybe thousands of listnookors will repeat those headlines for months on end despite a story being debunked almost immediately, or the headline being misleading in the first place. And then those people go on to vote.

SaintPoost Apr 14, 2020 +9

You're very right. I'm super aware of the points being brought up and I didn't say a thing about voter intelligence, which in the end, is all that really matters. Good voters will go out and search for information and idiots will just.. "vote." But the least listnook can do is just not host ads for politics. This site isn't the only one at fault obviously, but it is one of the larger social media forums in the world and really could stand to take action against the spread of disinformation and lies and other things. Banning the ads isn't the only issue of course: posts, comments, bot accounts, etc are all things that need addressed, which won't ever happen given the biases of any given moderator or admin. But, it could be a step in the right direction.

[deleted] Apr 14, 2020 +25

As soon as you disagree with the hive mind they make up reasons to ban you from sublistnooks for no real violations to silence you and allow zero recourse to it. Listnook is literally just a overly sensitive pc echo chamber manipulated by progressive political bots and paid organizers, Russian bots, and more recently Chinese bots and paid organizers. It's a joke. And they are going to treat these ads the same way they treat those that disagree with their opinions. Unfairly and fascistically.

SaintPoost Apr 14, 2020 +10

It's getting really bad as the years go on. Especially the whole Russian farm / Chinese farm topic you touched on.

zbeshears Apr 14, 2020 +51

HahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahabababBabababahabahabakrkeofbxbeowoakdbeusoajajaodpwn..... Listnook forgo money.

AltimaNEO Apr 14, 2020 +7

The ads aren't even the problem, it's the posts and comments. It seems like it's awfully easy for people to post things and get the hive mind to sway in their favor.

MODSRCHAPOS Apr 13, 2020 +219

>That said, beginning today, we will also require political advertisers to work directly with our sales team and leave comments “on” for (at least) the first 24 hours of any given campaign. We will strongly encourage political advertisers to use this opportunity to engage directly with users in the comments. I'm sure these comments will be entirely civil and not at all brigaded by other advertising or influence campaigns.

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Akselmusic Apr 14, 2020 +67

Doesn't matter, they will just [moderate their own comment sections](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/g0s6tn/_/fnbjf3t?context=1000) to remove any dissenting opinions or fact checking.

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +344

I don’t actually see how this helps in any way. Let’s be real, political ads stink. People only like them if they support the candidate or ideas that they support. I think the best solution would be to disallow political ads from Listnook, but that doesn’t bring in $$$ so that won’t happen.

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AnUnimportantLife Apr 14, 2020 +14

Yeah, and I think that's the biggest issue with the new policy. You sorta know that any discussion that happens in the comment section of one of these ads isn't going to be a good discussion that weighs the relative benefits of the candidate or their policies; it's just gonna be a flame war all the way down.

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +36

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +151

Can I just please stop getting ads for that game that are like *”I’m Pregnant??” What should I do??* I have never seen a more stupid looking game. There should be a mechanic that lets users hide ads they don’t like, unless there is one and I just haven’t seen it

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[deleted] Apr 14, 2020 +20

On mobile, there is an option to hide an ad but it doesn't work properly. Neither does blocking the original poster of an ad. If I choose to 'Hide Ad', it goes. But, as soon as I check comments on another post, that ad comes back. Exactly the same happens even if I have them blocked.

somedood567 Apr 14, 2020 +8

Thank you! I’m glad it’s not just me! It looks like the worst f****** game in the world. I didn’t raise it before bc I was worried I was being targeted bc some listnook algorithm determined I was really f****** stupid

coolcoolio77 Apr 14, 2020 +81

This so disappointing, Listnook was supposed to be place to just relax, have a laugh hangout, experience with different cultures maybe get a new perspective every now and then Now it's just shitty ads that too political and getting more even political with this stupid engagement feature I hope you could go back to your roots but I guess that train has passed

[deleted] Apr 14, 2020 +16

hokierthanthou Apr 13, 2020 +122

What about unpaid ads? A great deal of the political content produced to day is done so freely, or in a 'grey' market; I'm sure listnook had a post dealing with Northern Macedonian news dealerships in 2018. They were being paid largely by Russian political consultancies; and Listnook addressed that, even if far too late. Will you also be addressing edited, misleading, or outright false political advertisements and memes, or other forms of disinformation?

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eurostylin Apr 13, 2020 +69

Unpaid political ads? You mean just about every default sub on listnook? Even /r/pics is political these days.

Thomasedv Apr 13, 2020 +393

Seeing as ads have an at least 24 hour open comment policy, do you expect to see an influx of "paid for" commenters praising said ads message? Edit: Fixed spelling.

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +148

Very good point. The ad buyer knows when ad will appear and can therefore make sure that it is flooded with positive reviews and feedback for 24 hrs. Then, they can start their next ad...

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[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +65

Exactly. All this update will bring is another surface for corporations to influence us on, paid company comments filling the whole page. There is no way that something like this will not be curated.

NorthCarnival Apr 13, 2020 +21

Since Listnook said in another thread that the advertisers moderate the comments, I expect to see mostly paid for commenters.

Pekenoah Apr 13, 2020 +16

Why the hell do we need political ads at all? Political campaign spending in the US is absolute cancer. I know it won't happen cause money, but I wish major platforms would stop allowing political ads. Whatever policies you make, we all know they are always gonna be full of shit. Asking politicians not to lie is like asking a 2 year old to not eat a marshmallow. It won't work and everyone knows it.

SlanneshsDeviant Apr 14, 2020 +102

"As the 2020 election approaches, we are updating our policy on political advertising to better reflect the role Listnook plays in the political conversation and bring high quality political ads to Listnookors." Why does Listnook think it should play _any_ official role in a Presidential Election? Hmmmm I wonder why... Edit: Let's not forget that Listnook has manipulated it's platform on countless occasions to suppress certain political ideas that don't conform to the "direction" the site wants political discussions to go. Including full blown comment manipulation and replacement by Spez himself. This site needs to ban politics of any kind and at least attempt to return it to what made it great in the first place. Narwhals, cute pictures of animals and geek culture. Everything beyond that is trash.

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lolololokolomoloj Apr 14, 2020 +45

“I’m confident that Listnook could sway elections, we wouldn’t do it, of course. And I don’t know how many times we could get away with it. But, if we really wanted to, I’m sure Listnook could have swayed at least this election, this once.” -Spez after last election. /r/stopbeingevil

redditor_aborigine Apr 14, 2020 +31

> This site needs to ban politics of any kind and at least attempt to return it to what made it great in the first place. Narwhals, cute pictures of animals and geek culture. Everything beyond that is trash. This is the only solution. But the admins don’t want to run a nice site.

[deleted] Apr 14, 2020 +7

>This site needs to ban politics of any kind Says 16 day old account who posts almost exclusively in political subs.

Calm-Goose Apr 14, 2020 +13

WAIT A F****** SECOND. Is this a joke? You allow ANY company to advertise on listnook with the intent to deceive the listnook user base. It happens every day. Taco Bell, Wendys, Coke, Bill Gates, etc. etc. You NEVER force these advertisers to label these "content submissions" as ads. It's embarrassing. Every other social media site requires this except listnook who actively encourages this deceptions. You are hypocrites.

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +515

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throwaway67612 Apr 13, 2020 +15

It'll basically be a listnook penal colony, all the crazies congregate on one spot and the average user gets less political toxicity!

langis_on Apr 13, 2020 +16

>the average user gets less political toxicity! Wishful thinking there.

Haus42 Apr 13, 2020 +94

> going to be possibly the most toxic place on all of Listnook, and that's saying something This is not only correct, but also induced in me a legit, 45 second laughing fit. Edit to add: Here's a good logo for these ads: https://i.imgur.com/7RZs0ek.gif

OffensiveComplement Apr 13, 2020 +176

Don't. Just don't. I'm confident Listnook can survive without revenue from political interests. The only real way for Listnook to win at the politics game is simply not to play.

176

marytodd455 Apr 13, 2020 +38

Way too late for that buddy. They let "grassroots" (read: private companies) like ShareBlue canvas these sites with bot voters and comments to try to sway opinion.

Adamscottd Apr 13, 2020 +74

Is there any way for me to go about my regular Listnook experience without seeing anything political? Besides ads I get, but is there a way I can like, block political sublistnooks? I don’t really want to be involved or see most of those places.

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +24

studzmckenzyy Apr 13, 2020 +47

A significant portion of the political subs on here are a non-stop stream of astroturfed political ads posing as organic content. Do you plan to address that issue in any way?

redditor_aborigine Apr 14, 2020 +10

No? What a surprise. I don’t think I’ve ever seen admins on any site so disconnected from the community.

dentategyro Apr 13, 2020 +44

What metrics are you using to decide where the line is between “embellishing” and “fabrication” in the material? As a listnookor, what assurance do I have that I won’t be getting any misinformation?

iushciuweiush Apr 14, 2020 +40

Whether the admin doing the review likes the candidate. None. All admin reviews are done in secret and the advertiser is the moderator of the comment section.

HuggableBear Apr 14, 2020 +14

You don't even have to embellish. You can post direct quotes without context and it turns the meaning around 180 degrees, or post a concise, accurate paraphrase of 5 minutes of rambling and someone will report you for misleading statements because you didn't post all 2,000 words verbatim.

Avant_guardian1 Apr 13, 2020 +30

Require any post on behalf of political and PR groups be tagged as such. Help protect democracy. This is law for print snd TV for a reason. Listnook should lead the fight against Russian style tactics like astroturfing.

charlesshawn Apr 13, 2020 +200

If you forbid deceptive ads, then you might as well not accept political ads AT ALL. I have not seen this level of manipulation and outright bullshit in decades.

200

Bardfinnsstalker Apr 13, 2020 +90

Just ban political advertising you dolts, then your users won't have to worry about your clear political bias.

iushciuweiush Apr 14, 2020 +26

Ha, that's a good one. A listnookor asked if they would disclose the ads they rejected and the reason why and they said no so they can reject ads for any reason and no one will ever know.

[deleted] Apr 14, 2020 +15

I’m a democrat. If you’re going to quarantine any kind of political sub, idgaf who’s right or wrong, than Listnook has no business in dipping its hands into our elections. This is a slimy practice with your entire hope being “if every US Politician acts in good faith there will be no problems”. Are you in an echo chamber of your own? Are you surrounded by Yesmen? Are you all simply that detached from how the world operates? The fact that the UK won’t allow Listnook to show political ads is telling enough.

bindugg Apr 13, 2020 +91

Will Listnook remove ads that are fear mongering? Example: “Biden will let illegal immigrants in!” Will Listnook remove ads that are based on rumors? Example: “Trump received money from Russian oligarchs!”

Available-Memory Apr 13, 2020 +153

Just ban political ads. Period. That's the only appropriate course of action.

153

dynamic-express Apr 13, 2020 +30

But..but...what about all of that money?! Agreed. Listnook isn’t doing anything for a US political campaign other than supporting a particular side. It would be an amazing social media platform if they just told those advertisers to.....f*** off

Available-Memory Apr 13, 2020 +9

I mean, Listnook, in terms of active users who comment on shit, has a pretty well defined echo chamber and people who comment things that don't follow suit are downvoted heavily in the popular subs, which is fine as long as people realize that Listnook comment sections don't necessarily represent there opinion of the general public.

ZealousidealWasabi9 Apr 14, 2020 +36

WHO F****** CARES WHAT YOU'RE DOING WITH THE 'ADS' WHEN YOU LET BADACTORS FREELY POST AS NORMAL PEOPLE?! F*** you and this lipservice to preventing manipulation. This is nothing more than an attempt to hide how much you support that manipulation everywhere else.

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +43

Listnook "forbids deceptive, untrue, or misleading advertising." So... no ads then?

TotallyNotTheCBI Apr 14, 2020 +59

The Donald already made their own website Who is gonna advertise on Listnook? The Biden and Kamala campaign? You're gonna start seeing shilling on a level that you've never imagined before. Dem Senators and Congressmen are gonna do some random AMA which will be shilled too. You'll never see criticism unless it's towards a Republican. Listnook's admin team decides what is upvoted and downvoted and what you get to see. They're not going to let you see positive news or statements made about Mitch McConnell or Lindsay Graham because 100% of the listnook team are activists who hate those folks with seething fury and love the fact that they're working at listnook so they can "make a difference to the world".

drwuzer Apr 14, 2020 +15

In other words: "We've been working with our Chinese overlords to figure out a way to keep Trump from being able to advertise on listnook. We think this policy will allow us to legally block any and all ads by the trump campaign for bogus policy violations, while simultaneously allowing us to accept all ads from Biden without any review whatsoever" "I believe we can use listnook to change the outcome of an election " - Spez

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +90

Good thing we have silicon valley listnook tech-bro admins to decide what's "untrue", "deceptive", or "misleading" for us. Also, why are ads from outside the US not allowed? This site is used by more than just Americans.

StreamFamily Apr 13, 2020 +77

If you already have misleading ads being removed why do I keep seeing hot singles in my area waiting for me?

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +15

Have you considered the possibility that there *are* hot singles in your area waiting for you?

hornmcgee Apr 14, 2020 +32

Do you have any plans to address the astroturfed sublistnooks that are being used to carry political messages to the front page? Notably: r/WayOfTheBern r/OurPresident r/SandersForPresident r/PresidentialRaceMemes r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM r/PresidentBernie r/BidenWillLose

chris_hans Apr 13, 2020 +49

Now if only you'd do something about astroturfing in r/politics and had oversight for the clearly compromised mods selectively moderating and using the AutoModerator to silence particular types of political dissent, then you might finally get somewhere in preventing listnook from again being used to push disinformation before a presidential election.

OLSxLOCKDOWN Apr 13, 2020 +63

The words "high quality posts," "politics," and "Listnook" shouldn't be in the same sentence...

hey-devo87 Apr 13, 2020 +412

You should just ban all political ads

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eDgEIN708 Apr 13, 2020 +149

But that would hurt the party they want to help, why would they do that?

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gingerbeard303 Apr 13, 2020 +150

Ban all of the political adds. Every. Single. One.

Twog_Ender Apr 13, 2020 +203

I'm absolutely sure this will be applied even-handedly and not at all to make good on u/spez 's brag that "listnook can sway elections." /s

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[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +103

Still no report option for misleading posts.

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StandardFront Apr 13, 2020 +65

Or even misleading mods. For instance, HenryCorp is an anti-GMO lobbyist and even has an LLC that he uses on other social media platforms like Twitter. He was recently suspended for squatting on 350 subs dedicated to spamming, heavy censorship, vote manipulation, witch hunting, and fighting against science (including vaccines). He was dedicated to [attacking public scientists](https://np.listnook.com/r/listnookrequest/comments/f9bpfe/requesting_rkevinfolta_i_am_kevin_folta/) in many subs that exclusively focus on smearing them on both a professional and personal level. It's one thing to hate GMOs; it's another to repeatedly violate Listnook's rules and lead witch hunts that extend into the professional lives of public scientists. Fortunately for HenryCorp, his alt iheartgmo also squatted on these subs with him which helped him to recover most of these subs. Like HenryCorp, the account basically just squats on tons of anti-GMO subs, spams articles from anti-GMO lobbyists, and only really comments with lazy copy pasta quotes from the articles or to spam links to their 400+ sub network (see also the user signmyup1). Now Henrycorp is magically back from being suspended for a month and back to the same antics. The whole thing is extremely fishy.

What's being done about power mods aka power jannies censoring political speech? To be honest, subs like r/worldnews r/news and r/politics have been run like circuses the last 5 years.

staynless2 Apr 13, 2020 +56

So will you be using facts or feelings to decide the truth? Have you made sure your moderation team is politically diverse enough to allow fair consideration? Example: Will you classify the following as deceptive/misleading: "Joe Biden supports all women who report r***." He clearly was involved in some sort of sexual behaviour. He clearly dismisses it, so is the slogan deceptive or misleading and not allowed on Listnook?

SparkedPowerNoodles Apr 14, 2020 +42

"All ads will he posted in r/politics" Considering r/politicts is an echo chamber wouldn't it be considered a conflict of interest ?

[deleted] Apr 14, 2020 +11

And what about non-ad politics on this site? As we've seen from last election cycle, some sublistnooks spread misinformation and toxicity in the name of supporting their candidate? It's already happening again, with r/ourpresident devolving into an anti-biden attack sublistnook. They do nothing but say "dementia" every chance they get. Or is Listnook washing their hands of what happens all over again?

aPlagueOnThisHouse Apr 14, 2020 +10

I’m sure this won’t be abused at all by Listnook’s totally impartial admins. The site is already a giant left wing propaganda outlet as it is.

xperfectx Apr 14, 2020 +3

> We have some automatic measures in place that help remove comments that violate site wide rules, and the advertiser’s team will also be able to moderate comments. The advertiser's team will moderate comments. Welp there goes any chance of discussion. Basically only the hive mind that supports them is allowed. You try to sneak even a joke ? Downvote/ban. Listnook seems to be learning well from China. Good job Listnook, communism is in your blood now. I only hope you will find the water, later on, to wash it out. But of course this is the case, this is the place with the same 4 moderators curating 90 out of the top 500 subs. And we all know their political views by now.

obl1terat1ion Apr 13, 2020 +63

Have you done any investigation into the mod team of /r/ourpresident considering it’s made up of one suspiciously active moderator and a bunch of what I can only assume are sock puppet accounts with no activity.

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +91

38LeaguesUnderTheSea Apr 14, 2020 +6

I've said this before and I'll say it again, I travel the United States regularly and most people dont even know what Listnook is... This site is not influencing the average American one way or the other.

Magictonay Apr 14, 2020 +10

You only need to look at Bernie Sanders campaign to see how well astro turfing listnook goes.

rapidbody Apr 14, 2020 +16

In other words you'll be banning all Trump and Republican ads and letting Biden and the Democrats say whatever they want. How is that different than what you have already been doing?

pubgaddict1 Apr 14, 2020 +20

You probably should remove r/politics from news since it is left. Your making the news very biased.

putitonice Apr 13, 2020 +12

Political advertisers and sales team in the same sentence.... I miss the old listnook

richardd08 Apr 14, 2020 +10

Do me a favor and have a look at r/all or r/popular. >As a reminder, Listnook’s advertising policy already forbids deceptive, untrue, or misleading advertising (political advertisers included). lmao you guys are so full of shit. Your entire platform was a Bernie campaign ad until a couple days ago.

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +85

So are you guys going to start charging the mods of /r/politics, /r/worldnews, /r/news etc or are those sublistnooks going to continue to be free ads?

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +51

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +9

Hi there. What's the difference between a paid ad and 20,000 memes created by offshore propaganda mills?

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +31

garrett_k Apr 13, 2020 +10

You still filter based on political philosophy and ideology, though. Which doesn't much help things.

upvotedownvotebot10 Apr 13, 2020 +110

Are you guys gonna keep "moderating" China related ads?

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Pinkglittersparkles Apr 23, 2020 +2

Can you look into u/LRLOurPresident? Their previous account u/ChickenPeak was banned and removed for content manipulation on r/politics as well as other sublistnooks, and now they’re at it again, but on their own “new” sublistnooks. They have previously been reported for vote manipulation on listnook: >> I shared this to admins along with other example of posts that rocketed to 10-20k upvotes while his traffic and surrounding posts never aligned with those numbers. I also showed where he held 121 of the top 125 posts. I know of others who have also tracked the blatant vote manipulation and tried to show admins, [and I also know he was originally running that sub](https://www.listnook.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/84ep64/rourpresident_has_reached_25000_subscribers_to/dvpadhy/) as u/ChickenPeak but was banned from listnook for vote manipulation, which is why his other "mods" are blank placeholder accounts in case he's banned again he can just resume with one of them. Admins don't care, and I don't know why. u/LRLOurPresident (previous account: u/chickenpeak) (alts: u/berniebrain u/PrimitiveRaga u/beeskneesleesjeans u/circlelightpark) AstroTurfs various liberal sublistnooks (u/AOC u/ILHAN u/DemocraticSocialism u/democraticparty) with anti-Democrat /Pro-Republican talking points and delete relevant posts, e.g., AOC endorsing Joe Biden This is especially concerning given that you (Listnook) sell ads to companies that target users based on these sublistnooks. * https://www.listnook.com/r/ListnookPoliticalAds/comments/fri23v/how_determined_are_you_to_vote_blue_in_2020_what/ * https://www.listnook.com/r/ListnookPoliticalAds/comments/fkwtvh/dont_miss_your_chance_to_help_bernie_make_history/ * https://www.listnook.com/r/ListnookPoliticalAds/comments/frlb5j/at_this_very_moment_the_political_establishment/ Here are a list of posts calling out this user for manipulating listnook: 2 years ago https://www.listnook.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6ew75y/sublistnook_moderators_are_manipulating_our_front 9 months ago https://www.listnook.com/r/listnookrequest/comments/91ieb0/requesting_raoc_mod_has_been_inactive_for_nearly/ 4 months ago https://www.listnook.com/r/Enough_Sanders_Spam/comments/ed0o76/a_sanders_supporter_that_does_michieveous_stuff/ 1 month ago https://www.listnook.com/r/ActiveMeasures/comments/fisw7v/i_believe_user_lrlourpresident_moderator_of_many/ 17 days ago https://www.listnook.com/r/ActiveMeasures/comments/fw4ax2/leftist_sub_pushing_antibiden_propaganda_via/ 15 days ago https://www.removeddit.com/r/TheoryOfListnook/comments/fx5eac/shades_of_the_donald/ 10 days ago https://www.listnook.com/r/SublistnookDrama/comments/g0e3ma/rourpresident_mods_are_removing_any_comments_that/fn9ycd0/ 10 days ago https://www.listnook.com/r/conspiracy/comments/g0lhx5/mod_of_rourpresident_is_running_a_disinformation/ Today https://www.listnook.com/r/Enough_Sanders_Spam/comments/g6rc0e/aoc_sublistnook_a_rare_aoc_relevant_post_is_upvoted/

tre0000 Apr 13, 2020 +17

The only political ads ever shown are the Sanders2020 ads so I would imagine that the policy would have to change now that you can’t spam us with that anymore. At least I’d hope so because that’s the only political ad I’ve ever seen on here

TurpitudeSnuggery Apr 13, 2020 +20

Sounds reasonable. Good luck controlling misleading advertising. It seems like you can take a report that shows one narrative and take 1 paragraph saying the opposite narrative and only use it.

eDgEIN708 Apr 13, 2020 +14

> Good luck controlling misleading advertising. No that's actually super easy when their definition of "misleading" is whatever they want it to be. Super easy for them. They just check which party the ad is for. If it's not the one they like, the ad is "misleading".

naveyonac Apr 13, 2020 +12

We’ll ultimately see which way listnook ends up swinging it’s political mallet

othergabe Apr 13, 2020 +23

That mallet landed balls deep in oppressive censorship and big government ages ago.

naveyonac Apr 13, 2020 +14

Sadly, I know. All social media has. I have never seen so many misrepresented people in my life, it’s crazy

Blank-Cheque Apr 13, 2020 +45

Might I ask why ads are restricted to only American ads at the federal level?

TheGreatandMightyMe Apr 13, 2020 +10

I'm guessing it's because they're an American company and it would be too hard for them to vet ads from other political environments. Same reason they only allow them at the federal level. Whether you think that's because the really only care about manipulating the US Federal election, or because they're trying to keep out of things they don't understand, is up to you.

altforwhatnot Apr 13, 2020 +5

I think you should also post the rejected ads. Where is transparency in having a manual review before we see anything?

Kakumite Apr 14, 2020 +5

F*** your propaganda bullshit. You can't pretend to be unbiased after quarantining the side you don't likes sublistnook.

Ryyi23 Apr 13, 2020 +36

So from what I see, only Bernie Sanders advertised on Listnook.

Gnostic_Mind Apr 13, 2020 +60

It is a start. I would suggest doing more research with ANY company you allow to advertise with. Progressive, for example, will fund the other persons lawyer if they feel that losing the case will cost them less money than supporting their actual claimant.

hauntedorca Apr 14, 2020 +7

Hey! In the banning of subs like r/coomer, a purpose-driven anti-p*** sub, it was spammed with CP. This clearly is against listnook policy. However, many previous subs with right-leaning orientations have been banned with similar causes, namely CP spam. But it seems a bit too convenient that hundreds of dummy CP spam accounts were created shortly after r/AgainstHateSublistnooks targeted them. It seems that AHS may be guilty of brigading, and how does listnook react to a purpose driven brigade sub?

MisanthropicAtheist Apr 14, 2020 +6

You could also not take political ads since they serve literally no purpose and are devoid of any meaningful information But we can't give up that sweet ad revenue, can we? You virtue signaling corporate whores

ginrei-kojaku Apr 13, 2020 +45

Can you have a look at r/politics as it is currently one big ad.

Thigh_bone_popsicles Apr 14, 2020 +4

F*** you and your garbage transparency. Pretty clear this website has none of that. You mods are dirty f****** money whores for China. Most of you do it for free which is even more pathetic. Disgusting.

> Finally, Listnook only accepts political advertisements within the United States, at the federal level. Political advertisements at the state and local level, or outside of the United States are not allowed. Didn’t China invest a bit of money into Listnook recently? I guess you just have to leave the adjective off of the type of funding to get it to go through.

[deleted] Apr 13, 2020 +18

"Listnook’s advertising policy already forbids deceptive, untrue, or misleading advertising (political advertisers included)" \*takes massive quantities from sketchy Chinese companies run by the Chinese government\*

bryantdl7 Apr 14, 2020 +15

Nice, now if you guys would work on the political bias problem in things like r/politics that would be great. I’m not even h******* left or right it’s just nonstop trump/republican is bad like cmon is there any other political news?

ruthbuzzi4prez Apr 14, 2020 +17

A policy carefully designed to enable prolonged bullying of anyone who supports Trump followed by a wholesale ban. I'm shocked. Then again, why the hell would anyone put a political ad on Listnook?

aaceptautism Apr 14, 2020 +9

This f****** site has been lost, thanks assholes at listnook. WE DONT WANT POLITCAL ADS F***

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