ListNook

YqlUrbanist 4 days ago +984

The 1970s called, they want their "thing that should have been obvious to everyone" back. Imagine telling someone from that energy crisis that 50 years in the future we'd have the kind of renewable technology we have now, and somehow we're still completely brought to our knees by conflict in the middle east.

984

ElChanclaso 4 days ago +576

It doesn't help that renewables have become a partisan issue in the US. The mentality seems to be, "wind power is for f*gs." It's straight out of Idiocracy.

576

sexygodzilla 4 days ago +85

Trump literally just paid an energy company a billion dollars to cancel a wind farm and focus on oil. Can't make this stuff up.

85

MrBathroom 3 days ago +39

All because the rapist got angry at Scotland for building a wind farm near his golf course

39

Wise_Rip_1982 3 days ago +7

Also ended all solar panel rebates...

7

Imaginary_Manner_556 3 days ago +2

All administrations have had tariffs on panels. Trying to protect low end assembly jobs.

2

Wise_Rip_1982 3 days ago +2

Tariffs are not rebates...

2

Imaginary_Manner_556 3 days ago +1

I know. Rebates were just handouts to solar installers and US solar manufacturers. Tariffs made sure all those rebates when to US companies.

1

Wise_Rip_1982 3 days ago +1

Yes. It's a balancing act and without the rebate the cost goes out of control and nobody except the wealthy can afford to put up panels now

1

Imaginary_Manner_556 3 days ago +1

Installers just jacked up prices

1

kirsion 4 days ago +127

Surprised that nuclear power still has detractors

127

MobiusOne_ISAF 4 days ago +72

Mostly due to cost, a lot of the time solar / batteries have gotten so damn c**** it’s easier to slap that down instead. Nuclear power does have some applications, but it’s the kind of thing that needs to be justified over other renewables first.

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IllustriousVomit 3 days ago +1

"some applications"... It's at least 50% of all electrical power supplied to the province of Ontario and great many New York state homes. Nuclear can be scaled down as well. It can be used to power a submarine, a spacecraft, a satellite, even large vehicles can have nuclear powered engines that will literally never run out of fuel. the problem is oil and gas and the wealth it generates and the laziness of the people in general when it comes to having to deal with inconvenience.

1

MobiusOne_ISAF 3 days ago +3

I feel like you’re entirely skipping past the cost part. Obviously you can build a nuclear power plant to power whatever. However, if you’re spending 2-3x that of a solar/wind project for the same total output, you’ve gotta stop and seriously ask why you’re using nuclear power specifically.

3

decmcc 3 days ago +1

I used to sell energy in ON (door to door) and the amount of people that think they ONLY get their power from "hydro" because that's the name of the company is insane I should have made a list, I could have gone back and sold them all the smelling oils that are "essential"

1

judioverde 3 days ago +4

Apparently no one wants a nuclear power plant in their backyard

4

IllustriousVomit 3 days ago +3

I live in Ontario, and it's totally OK! Most of our power here is nuclear.

3

Eikfo 4 days ago +8

I'm all for it as a temp solution until renewable take over, but with the current warmongering administrations, maybe having a big easy target which bombing can ruin the area is not the best idea at the moment.

8

warbastard 4 days ago +33

Nuclear power isn’t exactly a temp solution. Building a new plant can take over a decade when renewables are usually suitable right now - depending on geography. Horses for courses.

33

attackMatt 4 days ago +19

And with that decade of build time, add another decade in delays and an additional 100-200% in cost overruns. Small solar farms can be completed and producing energy within 30 days. Bigger scale within 6 months.

19

Kakkoister 3 days ago +1

We do need to be building some that give us byproducts used for the medical industry and other scientific and industrial endeavors. The rapid closing of reactors around the world in the 2000s started to put a strain on hospitals and research.

1

EmmaFrostBroken 4 days ago +19

And why is it partisan? Some might recall it wasn't initially, it was only after big fossil fuel corpos started bribing politicians, that it became a "controversial" topic with folks insisting "the science isn't settled" and "renewables aren't reliable, there's no solar power at night!!". An argument which is increasingly hilarious given recent events.

19

matrinox 4 days ago +5

This is why there’s no actual partisan politics in the laws they pass, it’s mostly aligned with the campaign doners

5

pablocael 3 days ago +7

Well, while US is drowning, China is massively investing in its power grid infrastructure, AI research and robotics.

7

LetterNo7829 4 days ago +11

It all comes down to the petrodollar. USA offers its muscle to Saudi Arabia. In return the oil countries sell oil only in USD. It’s the only way USA can monetise their big army. Pretty much all of US wealth has been built on this foundation since the 70s. It doesn’t work with green energy.

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Wayofchinchilla 3 days ago +4

You have to remember his hate of wind is for the dumbest possible reason it's because he owned a golf course in Great Britain where they built a wind farm off the coast he sued to have it removed and lost and has never gotten over it.

4

ekun 4 days ago +12

Billy Bob Thornton delivering a monologue with the dumbest takes of the past 3 decades for a bunch of rubes to eat up and it's a wildly popular show in the US.

12

Drywesi 4 days ago +2

It's an old trope in US culture. so-called educated city types get schooled by an everyman who 'knows how things really work'.

2

MissSephy 3 days ago +2

I've not watched Landman, but I've seen the speech and it made me think less of Thornton for acting it out.

2

poppin-n-sailin 4 days ago +4

I mean, the real issue here is how many people watch a drama and take the content of that *drama* as cold hard fact.

4

YqlUrbanist 4 days ago +6

A truly depressing number of people have cited that Landman rant to me as if it was an academic paper.

6

Old_news123456 3 days ago +3

It's insane how many alternative power projects were canceled and destroyed.... Some of them are completion. Just because one man hated it. Those projects would have come in so handy to the citizens right now.

3

IllustriousVomit 3 days ago +3

To be fair, America and a whole lotta americans worships money and that isn't going to work out for America in the long run.

3

AfterDarkAsset 3 days ago +3

Unfortunately, everything has become partisan in US. Topics that shouldn't be partisan have become partisan - vaccines, best guess on protocols (masks, distancing) suggested by scientists based on the circumstances we were in back in Covid days became a partisan topic, climate change. Whether a president should be able to call for genocide of a civilization (!!) is a partisan topic. Gun rights, LGBTQ rights, immigration, etc are expected to be partisan topics but US politics has veered off in a strange direction - everything is partisan now.

3

LystAP 4 days ago +7

You mean wind power made Trump’s view from his golf course ugly and now that’s everyone’s problem.

7

Isotheis 4 days ago +3

Not just in the US, we've come full circle in Belgium and it's now the fault of the greens that we are planning to build new gas plants. It's also the fault of the greens for the nuclear, and it's also the fault of the greens for the war.

3

balooaroos 4 days ago +4

Yeah the problems in the US aren't unique in kind, only in degree. The far right stuff is everywhere, violence happens everywhere, racism is everywhere, media bias, misinformation... The US just takes these universal problems to more extreme levels.

4

Impressive-Potato 3 days ago +1

MAGA have those clips from the show "Landman" to "prove" it doesn't work.

1

No_Indication9630 3 days ago +14

China started out by building the world's largest hydro dam, the Three Gorges Dam at 22,500 MW it is also the world's largest power station in general, and all renewable energy. I mean i'm pretty sure they got the memo.

14

rtb001 3 days ago +9

The new one they just started building at Motuo is going to have 60 GW capacity! The entire US hydropower dams put together generate 80 GW in comparison.

9

Impressive-Potato 3 days ago +4

they have giant solar farms as well.

4

tsardonicpseudonomi 4 days ago +35

> somehow we're still completely brought to our knees by conflict in the middle east. We've known about capitalism since Marx but we keep investing our blood into it.

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AustinYun 4 days ago +13

Marx had the unfortunate fate of dying right before economics really became a thing, and thus while most of his critiques of capitalism are valid, even as a communist I'd argue we're still far from the socialism stage, ie where the marginal utility of swapping away from capitalism will lead to a higher standard of living for most people. The critiques that are still especially valid are that capitalism tends to lead to a lot of speculation and thus unstable markets. China has actually done continued theoretical Marxist work on modern capitalism and it's largely led to a kind of convergence with modern economic theory, diverging from the west primarily in what inefficiencies they believe are worth it. See also LKY of Singapore who started off as a socialist before being a ruthlessly pragmatic authoritarian who oversaw a kind of state capitalism, which Deng Xiaoping largely copied, and to be frank, it's worked extremely well, and I don't think the authoritarianism is necessary on the social side.

13

FallschirmPanda 4 days ago +9

The authoritarianism is probably an inevitable side effect of trying to control human greed and avoid a corporate takeover.

9

KGB_cutony 4 days ago +15

well China's priority in the 70s was very much "keep people from starving and freezing to death" all the way up till the early 21 century. But yes ever since then China has spend insane amounts of money on renewables both R&D and actual manufacturing. It's giving us cause for optimism but it's never meant to fully replace fossil fuels, and that transformation could still take decades.

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Dracogame 4 days ago +6

To be honest, we’re not nearly as reliant on oil as we were 50 years ago. Of course we could have been better if the oil lobbying industry didn’t exist.

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magic-karma 3 days ago +1

I think there are those who are not surprised at all. Any credible threat to the Petro-dollar, would cause a war in the Middke East. If China cracks the petro dollar, with a secondary reserve currency, the US is in serious trouble especially given the amount of debt. Iran/Venezuela is very much an effort to maintain a single reserve currency for energy. Renewables can’t contribute enough, at the moment, because it is the transfer of energy that the Petro dollar needs. If China offers energy contracts is a more attractive currency than the US, the implications (short and long) are dramatic.

1

Commercial-Lack6279 4 days ago +191

Ironically if this doesn’t all go to hell… It COULD be argued that the disaster of Trump may have pushed the globe towards renewable energy much faster than it otherwise would have, in addition, hastening the collapse of the US global hegemony may reduce chances of future conflicts involving the US… and hopefully introduce a stronger more robust set of laws to safeguard our democracy possibly even a “new deal” scenario. Than again… probably not.

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Spright91 4 days ago +70

Eventually the US will be dragged kicking and screaming into a renewable power grid. Because renewables are c**** and getting cheaper and more reliable every year. Eventually it will be such a difference that the only way you can remain competitive in a global economy is to have a renewable power source. You're seeing it already with these AI data centers, they cant finish them because there's not enough power. And china is adding a quarter americas worth of renewable power every year. Soon enough Trump will be dead and his cult will have a chance to reform on the realities of the moment.

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mr_birkenblatt 3 days ago +7

Americans will always do the right thing... after they tried everything else

7

windingsand 4 days ago +13

They will refuse to use woke renewable energy to spite the libs for as long as they can. There is already the people saying they will never get an electric car despite it being a better option in most areas

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FUCKYOUINYOURFACE 1 day ago +1

There used to be a generation that denied that smoking was bad for you. This will sure pass. Future generations will look back and wonder how this generation was so stupid.

1

Drywesi 4 days ago +4

> Eventually the US will be dragged kicking and screaming into a renewable power grid. Because renewables are c**** and getting cheaper and more reliable every year. That'll only happen when we start to rebuild after the collapse. Probably a decade or more from now, if then. > Soon enough Trump will be dead and his cult will have a chance to reform on the realities of the moment. They will literally burn everything to the ground before doing that.

4

Randall_Moore 4 days ago +10

Hey, maybe it will. If people get out and vote and don't sit back complacently. There'll be set backs because nothing goes perfectly (else we wouldn't have had a Trump 1 or 2). There are plenty who aren't happy who were his supporters. Think how few counter demonstrators were out for the last No Kings. The problem is, we can't think that just No Kings will save us. There's gotta be more action to drive this.

10

PetyrDayne 4 days ago +8

There's a reason Chinese socials call Trump the great nation builder

8

smegmabitch 4 days ago +4

Push towards renewables? Only if your government actually wants that. *crying in German lobbyism*

4

MixBlender 2 days ago +1

Now is the time for optimism. Dooming ultimately doesn't push us forward.

1

FUCKYOUINYOURFACE 4 days ago +53

Trump doing the most to get the world off oil. He might save us after all!

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cacecil1 4 days ago +14

Reverse psychology genius!

14

LostRonin 4 days ago +36

China is more concerned about the prosperity of their nation. Trump is more concerned about the prosperity of himself and his friends.

36

balooaroos 4 days ago +467

If you don't already know China saw this coming a long time ago and are well along in their transition to renewables. They already have more solar and wind power installed than the rest of the world combined. They're ahead of their own schedule to get off the wild ride and achieve a full carbon neutral ecconomy. Obviously there's a lot of valid criticisms you could make of China, but one thing you do have to admit about their system is they're more able to make major changes than the west. You're not going to have a new government in four years that cancels all the plans because billionaires paid them too. If they decide they're going solar, that's that. If you don't like it, well, try not to let the bulldozer run you over cause it's happening.

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kirsion 4 days ago +85

The silver lining of a one party authoritarian system is, if they want something done, it gets done. Multi-party systems can be faulted to bickering, 1 step forward 2 back situations. Just don't go against party lines or the supreme leader's wishes and you won't be put in jail

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nubetube 4 days ago +62

It's like the same problem monarchies of the past had. You could have a benevolent king who leads a golden age, only for the kingdom to fall into complete disrepair once his crazed son takes power.

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CMDR_Agony_Aunt 4 days ago +38

As opposed to a democracy when all falls into complete disrepair once a crazed pedo is voted into power? You know, i sometimes want to give up on humanity. We are dumb as f****** rocks.

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SyndieSoc 3 days ago +19

China is a little different. While Xi wields a lot of power, there are thousands of technocratic leaders that form part of the national governing body. If Xi went off the deep end, the party would be able to overthrow him if it looked like he was becoming erratic.

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Mustatan 3 days ago +3

This. We've gotten posted alot to China for work and it's hard to understand for us in the west, while they can get things done fast it's not a "one party authoritarianism" system either at least certainly not like we usually think of in the west. As we learned there the people's congress has a lot of power. They even do have elections at a lot of levels, they call it something like "policy democracy" I can't remember, but the people do get votes and even referenda on a lot of things. And it's not even just one party, there a lot of parties that actually take form there and debate, before arriving at agreement. Maybe the reason it's effective, the parties in the congress there and other institutions in China, they don't harden into hard factions permanently against each other. The parties and factions are looser and more flexible. Maybe that's how to solve things better in western democracies, with elections and parties but more multi-party and flexible. The hard 2-party system we have in the US, with the toxic culture and social media has been a disaster and already turning us into a second rate country. Not saying everything they do in China is best, they still deal with a lot of poverty in areas like Guizhou, and it's still annoying how they deliberate de-value the yuan currency. (Even though that's changing, China is finally allowing the renminbi to rise which balance world trade more). But they have a more flex, meritocratic system that gets things like renewable power right.

3

heavy-minium 3 days ago +1

This is by the way the whole theme of [Legend of the Galactic Heroes (TV Series 1988–1997)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096633/)!

1

TRLegacy 4 days ago +8

Higher high and lower low

8

ProtoplanetaryNebula 4 days ago +10

I think what this news means is that they will go even harder from now on.

10

cacecil1 4 days ago +10

My favorite thing was several weeks ago Trump saying China has no wind farms and they only sell the tech to stupid people who buy them. That they don't use wind power themselves. When in fact, it seems that like China's installed wind power capacity was over 600 million kilowatts in 2025.

10

cliffski 3 days ago +5

Actually it was 1,130TWH or 1,130,000 GWH or 1,130,000,000 MWH or 1,130,000,000,000 kwh. So actually way, way better. 2 million times higher :D. (1.13 trillion kilowatt-hours)

5

rtb001 3 days ago +3

You are taking about energy generated (kWh), he is taking about wind power CAPACITY (kW), so you are both correct. China wind capacity is over 600 GW.

3

Snoo23533 4 days ago +20

Oh the west can make drastic changes when it wants to, we (trump) just choose stupid ones

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asethskyr 4 days ago +23

Whoever cracks fusion first wins the energy game, and most countries have only been putting a token effort in. It's quite likely that China will pull that off simply because they're actually trying.

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BingBing- 4 days ago +110

In China right now and the Chinese live in the future, I absolutely love it here.

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ProtoplanetaryNebula 4 days ago +29

Me too. On a high speed train reading this article!

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Simian2 4 days ago +3

With luck I will get there as well. Fingers crossed my K visa application is approved soon.

3

rennat19 4 days ago +3

Living the dream friend! Hopefully I’ll be able to get there sooner than later.

3

matrinox 4 days ago +2

Their system is also responsible for one child policy and some other dumb stuff even now. It can do major changes that need to take decades to come to fruition/pay off. But it can also shoot itself in the foot really hard and for a long time before they realize the damage it caused

2

StockCasinoMember 4 days ago

To put it in Listnook speech, the problem is when China gets their own version of Trump. Which is a statistical inevitability. Many countries historically have shown what an effective dictator can achieve. But there are also plenty of examples of what happens when a bad one manages to gain power.

0

Professional-Ad-8878 4 days ago +68

You are framing this as if this is a vulnerability unique to authoritarian regimes. Using your own example, one of the most robust and developed liberal democracies produced trump, the supposedly sacrosanct US constitution and rock solid checks and balances all folded like wet toilet paper within a decade (And the US is far from the only liberal democracy facing this issue). Yes, the wrong person being in charge is disastrous for an authoritarian government, but turns out that liberal democracies are just as vulnerable.

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youngBullOldBull 4 days ago +32

no offence but calling american democracy robust is quite ironic, by the data on voter representation america has ALWAYS been one of the least "democractic" western democracies

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Xe4ro 3 days ago +2

One part I don't understand is that people have to register to vote. How is that not made automatically? The U.K has this as well for whatever wild reason.

2

desacralize 3 days ago +2

It's all to disenfranchise certain groups of people. In the States, it's also the reason the presidential election isn't a national holiday, why many states don't allow voting by mail, why the voting locations are random places like school gymnasiums and community centers instead of government buildings, and why some places are now pushing for voter IDs. They want it to be as difficult and inconvenient as possible for the majority of citizens to vote while still claiming every adult is allowed to. You're guaranteed the right, not the ability.

2

StockCasinoMember 4 days ago -2

I never claimed that or meant that in my post. If you read some of my follow ups, I suppose I make that abundantly clear further on. My response to the other guy was in response to the clown take that it won’t ever happen to China sometime in the future. Might not be billionaires paying for change, might just be the guy on the top. I honestly don’t even think that was his take, I was merely pointing out that they will have a problem eventually. It is inevitable for everyone to deal with bad leadership.

-2

ghoonrhed 3 days ago +4

I guess it depends on the damage right. Sure, a Trump like figure in China would do so much damage to their economy and climate targets and all that shit and America have term limits so theoretically that damage is limited to a max of 8 years. But is there a difference? The amount of damage Trump has done to America's reputation as a global force and a trusted ally is probably as bad as a dictator could manage.

4

AspectSpiritual9143 4 days ago +90

trump went from a civilian to president in one election. there is no such equivalent in china that can install any random pdf to president in one event. you actually have to start low and prove your governance before you can be promoted.

90

Seralph 3 days ago +5

The difference is that most of the Chinese leadership in recent years have proved to be competent and driven, with technocrats making up a significant portion of their NPC. So it's very unlikely that an incompetent clown ala Trump will rise to the top.

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StockCasinoMember 3 days ago +2

My post wasn’t even entirely that it could be a Trump like figure. It is honestly more likely that it would be a capable person who turns into a tyrant at some point down the line and that is when shit can go off the rails. Which again, all systems are in danger of.

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cliffski 3 days ago +6

The US is an idiocracy, so you get Trump. Chinas system assumes actual educated people as politicians, almost always engineers. Someone like trump would be sweeping the streets in China.

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desacralize 3 days ago +1

No, he'd still be rich, he just wouldn't be allowed to step foot out of the private and entertainment industries. Wealthy fools are more than welcome to lounge around until they die there as much as anywhere, just don't touch anything that matters.

1

allahakbau 4 days ago +10

They got bad dictator early on so that’s out of the system. Mao.

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No_Improvement_8313 4 days ago +26

Mao was a terrible leader, true. However even he left China at a much better standing than how he took it. Mainly in Education, heavy industry and basic infrastructure. Can't say Trump will leave a stronger US after this

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Some_Conference2091 4 days ago +1

Why do you think it's a statistical inevitability? It seems they've learned some lessons after Chairman Mao Zedung.

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Some_Conference2091 4 days ago +2

It seems like the country is run by smart professionals in consultation with experts.

2

sreache 4 days ago +1

Administrative order combines with market economy, and you have capitals pouring money into the renewables, and capitals bulldozed by orders because they're "environmentally incompetetive".

1

FUCKYOUINYOURFACE 1 day ago +1

Would you say that Chinas government makes them immune to being swayed by special interests? Like lobbyists paid by oil companies?

1

mossmaal 4 days ago -4

> If you don't already know China saw this coming a long time ago and are well along in their transition to renewables. China has a relatively low renewables energy mix percentage compared to many Western countries like Germany and Canada. > Obviously there's a lot of valid criticisms you could make of China, but one thing you do have to admit about their system is they're more able to make major changes than the west. China is very, very limited in its ability to make changes that might cause social disruption, like for example, energy investment which causes prices to rise. It’s why they do things like effectively having 50 new coal fired generators in 2025, while in other countries any new coal fired generator would be unthinkable (even the USA only has 1 new coal fired plant since 2013).

-4

Some_Conference2091 4 days ago +22

Renewable energy accounts for 56% of China's total installed capacity. Which is impressive considering the sheer size of the nation.

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alexos77lo 4 days ago +5

And is one the way to build 150 nuclear plants for 2030 that is a lot of infinite energy baseload, after that I think most coal plants would shut down and just used for emergency

5

PointmanW 4 days ago +10

>China has a relatively low renewables energy mix percentage compared to many Western countries like Germany and Canada. Because they have 10 times the population of Germany and Canada combined, it's not possible produce enough renewable energy intrafracture to serve so many people, spread out on diverse geographical locations in the relatively short time that China been investing in renewable energy. doesn't change the fact that they are still building more renewable energy intrafracture than the rest of the world combined, and that by absolute number, they generated more renewable power than the US + Germany + Canada + India combined in recent years. >It’s why they do things like effectively having 50 new coal fired generators in 2025, while in other countries any new coal fired generator would be unthinkable they do that for grid stability, but it doesn't change the fact that despite these buildout, coal plant utilization rates have been falling. and that China CO2 emission has also been falling in recent years.

10

sreache 4 days ago +8

The whole energy tactics in China is to ensure stability. They knew oil reserve are mostly secured by other parties that can't be trusted forever, and coal is what they could access anytime. Had China switched to oil or gas power structure, this could be a dire situation like factories shutting down and infrastructure failure. Renewable energy are basically free energy they could control, makes them even more independent from foreign energy sources. Plus the majority new cars sold in China are EV now, even the transportation sector had become less reliant on oil import as well.

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[deleted] 4 days ago +29

[deleted]

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ProtoplanetaryNebula 4 days ago +15

The wars length doesn’t really matter, because there is no real downside to moving even faster to renewables.

15

Chrono_Convoy 4 days ago +117

US diplomacy falling faster than the Hindenburg while China scores easy PR and Energy advancements. Maybe this Iran conflict shouldn’t have been started. Just look at gas MAGA Getting what you voted for?

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S1gorJabjong 4 days ago +47

Exactly what they voted for.

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NukedForZenitco 4 days ago +27

They'll tell you this is exactly what they voted for.

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Jae_Rides_Apes 4 days ago +23

Maga family member said today we haven’t gone to war with Iran, we’ve been at war with Iran and we’re finally going to finish it tomorrow. -___-

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Some_Conference2091 4 days ago +2

They repeat what they were told by Fux News.

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passatigi 3 days ago +2

One thing you can do is try to ask a specific prediction for a specific date, and then check back on it, rather than trying to explain how things work. This way it might be easier to make people see how easily they can misjudge the situation. E.g. you can both make a prediction for gas price for, let's say, 1st of June. And then you'll see who had the better foresight. Might also help with your own biases if you end up being wrong, as none of us is free from those.

2

Gr4u82 4 days ago +2

Everything Agent Orange does helps China and/or Russia and hurts the USA. In his first term and even more in his second term.

2

Educational-Elk4305 4 days ago +26

It wasn't sudden, it's been ongoing. ...Is China the only country taking the energy crisis and carbon neutrality seriously?

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MobiusOne_ISAF 4 days ago +7

It's mostly about energy security for China, the carbon neutral part is more of a nice secondary goal. Note, China is also building coal plants like they're going out of style. Really anything that can be sourced domestically is fair game for now, and later they can shift harder and harder to renewables when they have the luxury of choosing what can meet the energy demands they have.

7

Aerhyce 4 days ago +4

In terms of industrial capabilities, yes. Lots of countries are using solar, wind, etc., but they're not major manufacturers and are not spending a ton of money and manpower on R&D and industry scaling. China is.

4

Sreg32 4 days ago +12

Trump is all in on fossil fuels. More bucks for his generous billionaire donors. Trump should be a fossil

12

heavy-minium 3 days ago +3

They are not taking the environment into account very much. There are simply next to no ideologies, lobbyism or political clashes around power generation in China. They simply play all their available cards and don't deny themselves any form of power generation. The problem with Western countries is an overreliance on setting far-future goals that the next government will have to adhere to, but might not, so the execution of those grand plans usually suffers drastically over time.

3

Inside-Line 4 days ago +6

Carbon neutrality seems to be framing the actions as if they were for the environment, this is energy independence through and through. It just so happens that renewals are they to do so. If they could do it with coal without turning their cities into smog pits, they would.

6

PointmanW 4 days ago +13

It's for the environment though, after 2013, the pollution was impossible to ignore, and people complained enough that they started to invest in renewable, even when back then it was not clear that it would be cheaper. do you think white people is the only one capable of thinking for the environment or something

13

TriXter69 4 days ago +20

We should be pushing for clean, renewable energy regardless. Don't be like a certain moron and cancel windmill projects cause they kill birds or are too loud, whatever the hell he said

20

Kirarifluff 4 days ago +1

they scare the whales

1

BasicMatter7339 4 days ago +2

Grrrr! stupid windmills, they scare the whales! Anyways lets test underwater explosives and dump excess fuel into the ocean so we can use up all our budget and we get the same money next year!

2

Kirarifluff 4 days ago +2

He doesnt care about whales or anything other than himself 🤷‍♀️

2

Viva_La_Revolucion- 4 days ago +47

China is the adult in the room now

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EmmaFrostBroken 4 days ago +15

They really are

15

ragequitteroffureh 4 days ago +5

It's amazing how progressive those American Republicans are for other countries.

5

MezzoSoaprano 4 days ago +9

Meanwhile, over here in Germany, our conservative and oh-so christian government is working on slowing down solar & wind power production and wants to build 20 new gas power plants...

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Jonesdeclectice 3 days ago +1

Not sure where you’re getting that 20 figure from… they *are* approving new gas fired plants, but they’re intended as backup capacity only as they continue to phase out coal plants and grow renewable capacity. I believe they’ve talked about planning for ~20GW capacity, which is closer to 10 or so plants. Renewables haven’t been “slowed down,” but they’re have run into bottlenecks related to grid tie-in and security/permitting. And now I expect you’ll bring up the 2.5GW offshore wind project, but it wasn’t canceled - it just got no bids. So it’ll be relaunched next year with a new auction system. Beyond that, Germany needs more transmission lines to support renewables, lest risk overload.

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Mr_Sagoo 3 days ago +4

I love the post war optimism on nuclear energy. My father's generation marvelled at splitting the atom and how it could take care of all our energy needs. Then a room of about twenty people thought naaahhhh. And if you think the same thing won't happen with A.I and robotics you're deluded.

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Parking-Bus1069 3 days ago +4

No one has done as much to progress the alternative sources of energy worldwide as Donald Trump.

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faffc260 4 days ago +28

they are the biggest importer of oil currently, that is a threat to their economy they have no control over due to lack of enough local supply. makes sense, but oil is required for more than energy in their economy I'm fairly sure, so it won't completely mitigate it.

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VanCityPhotoNewbie 4 days ago +48

China is still getting oil from the strait though. But it is not as much as they use to. The thing with China is they stockpiled 6 months of oil. So they are not currently feeling oil shock yet. Also the oil companies are government controlled and the government controls the pricing. Whereas in USA they have oil but the oil companies are actually selling to offshore clients causing scarcity in America. As coastal US deliveries from US oil companies have decreased from Feb to Mar but increased to international clients, they are making record profits. Theoretically because they do not import that much oil from that area of the middle east, it should have minimal effect on its economy....but because oil companies can sell to whoever pays the most, it doesn't matter. Americans are paying international prices because oil companies will always sell to whoever will pay highest.

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faffc260 4 days ago +4

the point was: they see the potential threat and are trying to mitigate it, their economy needs a lot of oil to function, they can't supply enough, it's a weakpoint that they have no control over due to a lack of ability to project power to protect that supply. it might not hurt the average chinese citizen just yet but it is costing the government more money.

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ty_xy 4 days ago +1

Yes! This is a great comment.

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ty_xy 4 days ago +1

So in china most of the electricity is from renewables, coal and natural gas. But they really really need oil and crude for manufacturing, plastics, chemicals, refining, fertilizer, transportation (trucks and logistics), as well as their military, ships etc. so yes, they need oil badly. China is quite oil poor compared to other powers eg Russia and USA.

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miskdub 4 days ago +3

i think they're giving it all they got, captain.

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Muted_Pen9627 4 days ago +3

butatwhatcost.png

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dve- 4 days ago +3

Meanwhile in Germany, the minister of economy and energy wants to reduce the subsidies given to home owners installing new solar panels. She was a lobbyist and chairmwoman in the energy industry before she got the job and looks like she was inspired by Trump's view on renewable energies.

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Jonesdeclectice 3 days ago +2

I mean, *sort of*. Government subsidies exist to bridge the gap between the market and expensive, but much needed, product. As people buy, production ramps up, and costs come down. For comparison, when the subsidies were introduced in 2000, they paid ~€0.50/kWh and now for small rooftops they pay ~€0.08/kWh. Meanwhile, the cost to put up a solar array today is between 1/5th and 1/10th the cost that it was back in 2000. So realistically, why is the subsidy even necessary?

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dve- 3 days ago +2

Yes, ideally the market should push toward such investments by itself because solar is the cheapest energy source, but a little money to motivate even more people may turn out to become cheaper in the long run if it helps to make us more energy independent even faster. Not everyone can afford the investment upfront. Obviously there is also a social problem in doing so because rooftop panels are not an option for people who live in rental accommodation, so it's mostly not so poor home owners who are paid by the general public. But I still think it's a bad signal to cut the subsidies now when we are facing an energy crisis.

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Jonesdeclectice 3 days ago +2

Yeah I mean ideally the subsidies would exist as a % payment of the total upfront cost. The programme in question is a grid-buyback programme, so you’ve got people who invested early who were being paid €0.50/kWh dumped back into the grid on a 20-year contract, and then renewing again at the latest rate. Great for investors, but the public is on the hook to recover those utility costs. That said, there’s a lot to be said about decentralized production and efficiencies of small production (eg line losses are a major issue especially where power is produced with carbon and transported great distances). I think what Germany really needs is to fast-track Canadian SMR (small modular reactor) tech for installation into existing industrial sites since all the nukes have otherwise been shut down. Similar to what the UK is doing at their Wylfa site. Really, the EU as a whole should be fast tracking regulatory approval for SMRs in general.

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jphamlore 4 days ago +2

> Analysts have pointed out that China is relatively better-positioned to absorb the higher oil prices. Coal accounts for more than half of its energy mix, while it has ample oil stockpiles and imports ⁠via the Strait of Hormuz represent only around 5% of total energy consumption. > “The path we took in being ‌the first to develop wind and solar power has now ‌proven to be forward-looking. At the same time, coal-fired power remains the foundation of our energy system and must continue to play its supporting role,” Xi said.

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ThaddCorbett 3 days ago +2

You have to hand it to China on how much they e grown their renewables. If you fly from Beijing to Harbin there are a few segments where it looks like you're flying over an ocean of solar panels.

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Independent-Name4478 4 days ago +4

China is the leader of the free world

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ComeOnIWantUsername 4 days ago +3

China and free world in one sentence?

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Silent-Winner5673 3 days ago +1

Tbf they aren't nearly as far from it as Germany and Japan were. Countries can and do change.

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ComeOnIWantUsername 3 days ago +1

Yeah, countries can change and China can change. But now, it has nothing to do with free world with their communist party rulling and their massive spying and censorship

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Silent-Winner5673 3 days ago +1

Well it's a big country and now a true superpower. Such nations tend to do both a lot of good and a lot of bad.

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Carbonga 4 days ago +2

Xi is making sense here.

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OkInstruction535 3 days ago +1

China will have renewable energy quicker than you can say the words after this new US war ends. They have the manpower and technology to make it all happen very quickly. China is already leaving the rest of the world in the dust and are on the verge (if not already) of being the world’s #1 superpower, leaving everyone else in the dust - including the good OLD USA! Goodbye big oil company money!

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CommercialComputer15 3 days ago +1

The US is hogging energy supply by sabotaging others in order to lower their debt trap and prevent other nations from scaling advanced AI

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GarnetOblivion1 3 days ago +1

Urge the development of a less authoritarian government.

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redsparks2025 3 days ago +1

[China's Catastrophic Oil & Gas Problem](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISHHe1Hu6d4) \~ RealLIfeLore \~ YouTube. Note the video was uploaded 3 years ago before the latest dumpster fire Trump created.

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Student-type 4 days ago +1

Sell us your most advanced solar panels and batteries at half off, capture a big chunk of the future market place. Lead with new generation battery chemistry suitable for community clustering.

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mrsanyee 4 days ago

I can't tell you how I hate most of the comments here, how ignorant you are. Even if the whole country like Costa Rica, would run on renewables and hydro, they would be still hit as no country is self-sustaining in everything. Costa Rica imports rice, grains, receives many tourist on flights, and is refining oil to advanced chemical products. The lack of oil on long term is definitely hitting ALL people and everyone on the globe. So it's good, that China thrives for energy independence. They sold 250 million ice cars in the last 15 years. They heat with oil. They use gas to produces fertilizer and other base products. They can't go without oil either. Too late, party is over.

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teo_vas 3 days ago +1

LOL. 2/3 of oil is going to transportation. electrify transport and see how oil will collapse. all the fuss is about politics and money; not possibility. if everyone was investing in renewables we would have already get rid of oil or keep it just for specific uses.

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mrsanyee 3 days ago +2

Let me know when you've found a replacement for jet fuel and bunker.

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teo_vas 3 days ago +2

that's the point. the know-how exists. give me money and time and I will replace whatever you want. this is what is happening to the world right now, to countries that are not oil-countries.

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mrsanyee 3 days ago +1

Sure you do.

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China's Xi urges faster development of new energy system as Middle East war continues

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