We all know about Deus Ex Machina, moments when the main characters are about to lose, but the plot requires they win anyway so ass pulls and contrivances happen to save them. But the bad guys also often benefit from this, the Diabolus Ex Machina. This is especially common when the bad guy is an overarching villain of a season/series, so they aren't allowed to truly lose until the season/series finale.
In Game of Thrones for example, Euron Greyjoy somehow builds a massive fleet out of nowhere even though the Iron Islands have no wood, then somehow manages to ambush Daenerys and kill one of her dragons from an absurd distance.
So what other instances are there of the bad guy only winning/getting away because plot?
Heroes and their continued refusal to kill off Sylar because they didn’t bother to create any other supervillains that fans enjoyed.
339
Zoefschildpad1 day ago
+90
I think they were trying to write towards the future that Hiro visited, which Sylar was an important part of. But it never came together.
90
PornoPaul1 day ago
+55
That show overpromised at every turn with no plan on literally any of it. Its been years but "save the cheerleader, save the world" - was that just two separate missions? Did anyone ever save her? I thought it was you saved the world by saving the cheerleader but im pretty sure that never happened.
55
Voidmire1 day ago
+79
It referred to keeping Claire away from sylar because if he got her regeneration he'd be unbeatable. At least, that's the context of the first season. After that it all goes right out the dang window of what they trying to do.
79
CharonsLittleHelper1 day ago
+44
The idea was to not let Sylar get her regeneration powers. In the original timeline Hiro was able to stab Sylar - but he got better because he'd already killed her and stolen her regeneration.
It could have been done better - but that was the idea behind it.
44
Judson_Scott1 day ago
+10
> It could have been done better
This could be said about everything that happened in Heroes from the disappointing "climax" of season 1 onward.
10
Skeletor_19841 day ago
+17
Yeah they really should have done this plot better. It’s very obvious they thought up the tagline first and then tried to shoehorn in the plot to make it make sense.
As it stands, they only managed to make their plot “hide the cheerleader, save the world” and that just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
17
aircooledJenkins1 day ago
+7
When Sylar had his mitts all up in her brainmeats, and she asked if he was going to kill her, didn't he respond with (basically) "I can't kill you... you can never die."
7
iNsAnEHAV0C1 day ago
+8
And then the she dies in Hero's Reborn giving birth.
8
Skeletor_19841 day ago
+14
Actually?? lol what a terrible decision.
I’ve never seen Reborn, any other crazy plot points that completely f*** up the original series’ canon?
14
DarKoopa1 day ago
+15
iirc it's because one of the children has a power stealing ability and takes her healing factor during the birthing process
15
iNsAnEHAV0C1 day ago
+3
I only watched the first episode and dropped it immediately after.
3
CharonsLittleHelper1 day ago
+3
Was that S2?
3
Simpicity1 day ago
+12
"Let the cheerleader get eaten by Sylar, and you're fucked" wasn't nearly as catchy.
12
Jsaltal1 day ago
+4
Everytime they saved the world it ended up worse
Nuke in Ny city, Global plague in season 2 and the the world breaking apart? In season 3
4
Berg42621 hr ago
+4
The writers strike really did a number on that show. I vaguely remember the male lead had a girlfriend who got kidnapped and the show just completely forgot about her and the whole thing carried on as if she never existed.
4
Bugberry20 hr ago
+3
Specifically they used his time travel powers to go to the bad future, then they got separated and he had to return to the present. The rest of the season went along with him preventing the bad future but never mentioned him going back to save her.
3
ExtensionParsley420523 hr ago
+1
See also: The Boys, Homelander
1
No_Antelope_2551 day ago
+210
euron was such bullshit lol, dude went from having like 3 boats to commanding entire armada in what felt like 2 episodes. the dragon sniping was ridiculous too - apparently ballistas have aimbot when plot needs it but can't hit anything during actual finale
reminds me of how many shows do this with their big bads, they'll have villain escape through most contrived methods just to keep them around for finale showdown
210
AporiaParadox1 day ago
+119
And "Danny kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet."
119
Worthyness1 day ago
+17
Also no scouts ahead despite having air superiority and also having a massive army. She just 1A'd her way into the fog of war.
17
AlstottsNeckGuard1 day ago
+94
The idea that a fleet of ships could come out of nowhere when you have an aerial view is also ridiculous. She would have seen those ships from miles away
94
remmanuelv1 day ago
+40
Daenerys forgot she had really bad eyesight.
40
malln1nja1 day ago
+9
It's from all the inbreeding.
9
Cpt_Obvius1 day ago
+21
They could at least have invoked some idea of the drowned god making some misty foggy cover or something (whether it was actually from the god or not could be up to interpretation)
21
Asshai1 day ago
+19
Well, actually, they WERE miles away when they shot the dragon. That ballista is like a medieval rail gun with laser sights.
19
spoothead6561 day ago
+11
Doctor Who loves to do that. Steven Moffat, the showrunner for DW during most of the 2010s, talked about how back in the 70s the Master would definitively die at the end of an episode and then pop back up a few episodes later with not other explanation than a sly, menacing “I escaped!” and people just kind of shrugged and went along with it.
11
busche9161 day ago
+13
Doctor Who was also a show whose production was literally held together with duct tape, foil wrap, and household appliances. I didn’t watch those seasons live, but my understanding is that everyone is a bit in on the joke so to speak.
That’s a far cry from GoT being the most popular show in the public consciousness and having a ginormous HBO budget. Those showrunners mailed in the final season and a half and you can feel it through the screen.
13
spoothead6561 day ago
+3
Oh I absolutely was not trying to excuse GoT for it! Just trying to give another example for their second paragraph.
3
OrangeBird0771 day ago
+11
Book Euron and his brother were so much better, and the books even went into how they brought a fleet of ships.
11
Zerodyne_Sin1 day ago
+7
What, you don't like that he had an armada made of magic wood and sailors made from hopes and dreams? It was established there was no more lumber and the best sailors already left but hey what do I know about consistency... or economy of time (ie: *instant* armada from magic wood and non-existent manpower! Wooooooo).
7
MangaIsekaiWeeb1 day ago
+5
>the dragon sniping was ridiculous too - apparently ballistas have aimbot when plot needs it but can't hit anything during actual finale
For all its faults, I don't see anything wrong with the dragon sniping. The Ironborn were said to be known for sailing and archery.
I think the quote of "Dany just forgot" is indeed stupid. But I think they could just change the reasoning to:
* Dany got beaten by experience. Her people have almost no experience in naval combat.
* Euron uses birds as reference on how he could hide from the dragons and snipe the dragons down.
* Euron knows that Dany would sail from the shore so they don't get lost in sea.
* Dany being complacent after her recent victory which is how her solo destruction of the Fleet later became possible. After all, the dragon was flying normally instead of flying like there is chaos in the sky.
5
jvdunks18 hr ago
+8
There is no conceivable scenario where the Iron Fleet sees the dragons before the dragons see them while also being in ballista range. It’s not a f****** railgun, its lobbing that f***** at like 80mph.
8
MangaIsekaiWeeb17 hr ago
-1
You have multiple people far away from the fleet called scouts and signal the fleet that the dragon, being clearly visible, in the sky has arrived. I haven't watched the show since forever but If I remember correctly, the fleet was hiding behind some rocks and revealed themselves after the ballista snipe.
As for ballista being able to hit a dragon, the rules established that a ballista is indeed able to hit somewhat far because Dorne was able to hit a dragon in the sky with the scorpions. So, You would have to suspend belief over physics of the real world otherwise we would devolve into arguments whether or not if a dragon should be able to fly in the first place.
-1
jvdunks16 hr ago
+3
You can’t hide an entire fleet behind a f****** small ass island.
I’m not saying it’s impossible to hit a dragon with a ballista but trying to sell it happening like half a mile away with a single shot is dumb regardless of it happens in the books or the show.
3
MangaIsekaiWeeb15 hr ago
-1
I watched the clip again to refresh my memory.
1. It wasn't the entire fleet that was hidden by a modest size fleet.
2. It wasn't a single shot that took it down but multiple.
3. In a different battle, Bronn was able to fire the bolt at a similar distance with the scorpions as well. Yet no one was talking about how dumb that looked when it traveled far.
-1
TduckT1 day ago
+219
Somehow Palpatine returned.
219
AporiaParadox1 day ago
+53
Even Darth Maul's return was better handled.
53
FM10911 day ago
+23
Holding on to life despite missing half your body was the most Sith thing ever.
23
AporiaParadox1 day ago
+20
Man literally too angry to die.
20
webkilla1 day ago
+26
One of the laziest examples of poor writing ever
26
lmscar121 day ago
+5
Where he literally came out of a machine
5
Bugberry20 hr ago
To be fair, Star Wars already established force ghosts and cloning.
0
oomoepoo1 day ago
+93
The Pokémon anime did this to keep Ash from winning the league multiple times.
Especially egregious were gen 4 with Tobias pulling out multiple legendaries (and Ash still managed to ko two of his mon), gen 5 with the infamous Lucario and gen 6 with Alain's Mega Charizard X winning against Greninja. Remember kids, type match ups only matter when it's convenient!
You could also make an argument for generation 1 and Charizard not obeying after the rest of his team was already exhausted by Team Rocket shenanigans.
Also not a tv show yet but soon: JJK's Sukuna. It even became a meme between "nah I'd win" and "my old heian era X"
93
FM10911 day ago
+21
> Remember kids, type match ups only matter when it's convenient!
Tbf, Zard X is a Fire/Dragon so at best Greninja did neutral damage. Guess Alain trained HP to tank hits.
21
crookedparadigm1 day ago
+8
> Remember kids, type match ups only matter when it's convenient!
I mean, Ash was on the beneficial end of that countless times as well lol.
8
ImSuperSerialGuys1 day ago
+18
I wouldn't call Sukuna's wins "ass pulls" though. Keeping things spoiler-free, he's hyped up literally the entire series as the most powerful being possibly in existence (Satoru Gojo memes aside). He just backs it up.
18
brainpostman1 day ago
+17
The main problem with Sukuna are binding vows. We're never shown what the actual consequences for breaking it are, so when Sukuna does them it just looks like an asspull.
17
Worthyness1 day ago
+2
Makes sense for someone who is literally at the peak of understand of jujutsu to abuse the vows though. he's playing by the rules and manipulating them to his advantage.
2
brainpostman1 day ago
+7
But his vows are like "you get infinite damage on your next punch, BUT you can't fart at 23:59:00 on a full moon in a leap year". It's not just Sukuna, Gege fumbled the vow mechanic in general, the downside/upside ratio of it.
Sometimes it sorta works, like with Nanami's overtime. It's a clear trade off (lower power during 9am-5pm) for a later buff (high power after 5pm).
But then there's Mei Mei who gets a stupidly powerful crow attack but as a downside the crow dies in the process. How is that a downside valuable enough for an attack to get insane damage? These crows just surveil and she can get new crows and doesn't seem to be emotionally attached to any of them, to her they're like bullets.
Then there's >!Todou's vow at the final fight. So he has to use an instrument for his technique but his ability arguably is even stronger than before. Where's the tradeoff here? It's randomized? He couldn't even use it without his hand, he should be grateful to jujutsu gods or whatever he is allowed to use it all. None of it makes sense.!<
And this is exemplified in the worst manner for Sukuna. His downside to upside ratio isn't a 1 to 1, so it feels (and is) an asspull.
7
oomoepoo1 day ago
Fair enough. There was just a point where it really felt he's just winning by technicallity.
0
ShitImBadAtThis1 day ago
+11
Tobias really was an ass-pull. He shows up outta nowhere, no back story, and dissappears just as quick
Mega Charizard X vs Greninja gets a pass, though, because it's gotta be one of the best battles in the whole series
11
oomoepoo1 day ago
+3
Yeah, I think my views on the Charizard thing have mellowed out over time, it still was a kickass fight.
3
Worthyness1 day ago
+3
My annoyance is that Charizard took a full thunderbolt from Pikachu while in his normal charizard form, which is a super effective hit and should have done a significant amount of damage. At least with mega X vs greninja there's no actual type advantage there since Dragon neutralizes any water techniques that greninja would throw at them
3
TalynRahl1 day ago
+2
JJK final arc is so ass… genuinely don’t understand how the editors let him put that out.
2
oomoepoo1 day ago
+1
I think he really just was a bit burned out from his own work and wanted to end it.
1
TalynRahl1 day ago
+2
Very likely. I heard rumours that he wanted to end it after Shinjuku, but it was doing so well that WSJ forced him to keep it going.
2
Bugberry20 hr ago
+1
You’d have a point about type matchups if it was Mega Charizard Y.
1
EchoesofIllyria1 day ago
-1
How many of Ash’s losses were against bad guys?
-1
oomoepoo1 day ago
+3
Tbf, DiabolusExMachina doesn't *have* to be explicitly about bad guys, just like DeusExMachina doesn't (usually) involve gods literally appearing (anymore). Though I guess I interpreted the question a bit wider than OP maybe intended.
BUT: You could argue his loss against Alain in the Gen 6 anime was sort of a loos against a bad guy. Alain's not *really* the bad guy of the story (more like a dark reflection of him, sorta) but he's associated with the actual villains of the show and sort of brings about the catastrophe leading into the climax of the series.
3
Magimasterkarp1 day ago
+1
Tobias used pkhex, so he's definitely a scummy villain.
1
yo_soy_soja1 day ago
+106
The Boys must have Homelander as the villain.
Season 3 had a contrived curveball to prevent his death, though honestly that was probably poor writing. I didn't watch season 4 but have heard similar comments about that season finale.
106
Omnio891 day ago
+40
The use of the virus in the latest season is stupid. They’ve shown they can transport a vial of it around, so a well written Butcher would have one secured on his person from the first second he could. He’s bumped into Homelander enough that he’d want one at all times, just in case.
40
tryingtobebettertry41 day ago
+24
Also kind of kills the 'Butcher is the genocidal villain' twist in its crib really.
Now its more surprising if Butcher doesnt try release the virus to kill all supes.
24
TalynRahl1 day ago
+4
I still think my original theory would have been better.
Homelander starte as the villain. Penultimate season Butcher gets powers. Butcher kills Homelander. Everyone realises Butcher is just as bad, if not worse than Homelander.
Final season is the Boys vs Roid Rage Butcher.
We’re like 80% there anyway. Don’t know why they didn’t do it.
4
RecommendsMalazan1 day ago
+90
Azulas plan in ATLA season 2 could, and probably should, have failed at multiple points throughout, and only didn't due to luck.
The gang weren't in a rush, they could have gone and met the Kyoshi warriors before splitting up.
Long Feng could have decided to just throw Azula in prison and not team up with her.
The Dai Li could have decided to not betray their country and Long Feng in favor of a 14 year old girl they just met a day ago.
Katara could have found out Azula and her gang were pretending to be Kyoshi Warriors in a way that didn't result in them instantly capturing her, etc.
90
AporiaParadox1 day ago
+43
Also, Azula was lucky that Zuko was dumb enough to decide to trust her and betray Iroh.
43
RecommendsMalazan1 day ago
+70
I mean, she was lucky from the very beginning in not getting her ship capsized by ordering the captain to ignore the tides.
As Zuko said, she was born lucky.
70
Wazula231 day ago
+28
That's not luck, that's character. Zukos entire thing at that point was capturing the avatar and restoring his honor. She just made the correct assumption that he was still corruptible by that point.
28
anrwlias1 day ago
+16
I would not call that luck. Azula understood her brother's character. She knew how much the idea of restoring his honor and being welcomed back into his father's graces would matter to him.
A DEM should be a situation where fate literally steps in to make the villain win. A villain making shrewed estimations of people based on prior experiences doesn't qualify.
16
goldenbugreaction1 day ago
+14
He didn’t trust her. Not really. The problem was that he was just lying to himself as much as, if not more than, she was lying to him.
14
ThnikkamanBubs1 day ago
+15
“Somehow manages to ambush..”
Uhhh sweetie. She “kinda just forgot” about them.
15
Kazen_Orilg1 day ago
+54
Law Abiding Citizen, where the bad guy, Nick Rice, played by Jamie Foxx, uses teleportation to cheat and win. This is not a movie that previously had any magic or demonology so it really felt lazy.
54
Underwater_Karma1 day ago
+16
The ending of that move left a LOT of unexplored implications
The whole point was Butler was sick of a system that didn't serve real justice, so he resorted to murder.
Then in the end Foxx, the crusader of law and order, resorts to murder to get justice.
16
Kazen_Orilg1 day ago
+12
Right but impossible things happen. You can blame it on poor chronological editing, but I prefer my interpretation, that Nick Rice is an actual demon.
12
th3davinci1 day ago
-1
Apparently there was a different ending originally but Foxx made his participation in the movie conditional on rewrites since he didn't want the bad guy (Gerard Butler's character) to win.
-1
Underwater_Karma1 day ago
+4
it wasn't until the very end that I realized Butler wasn't the hero
4
Skeletor_19841 day ago
+5
lol didn’t he blow up Leslie Bibb’s character in a car bomb like halfway into the movie? I feel that was a pretty big villain turn
5
Underwater_Karma1 day ago
Sure but the people he killed arguably deserved it
0
Skeletor_19841 day ago
+9
The rapists, 100%.
Corrupt justice officials? Starting to get debatable now… exposure, shame and jail time would probably be more likely to change a broken system.
But Leslie Bibb? She was just a paralegal if I am remembering correctly. Once he sentenced her to a car bombing, he’s absolutely crossed over to anti-hero territory. Kinda like Michael Douglas in Falling Down, you start out rooting for him and then you realize he’s crossed the line.
9
muad_dibs1 day ago
+56
“Young Justice”. The Light always won, even when it looked like they lost in that show. Everything was always part of the grand plan.
56
tryingtobebettertry41 day ago
+16
Was a refreshing thing when in the last season of Young Justice Vandal's Atlantis plan just straight up fails.
No secret backup plan, no partial victory, no consolation prize. He makes a big play for the throne of Atlantis and his puppet king gets literally smited by the Lords of Order for messing with their stuff.
16
AporiaParadox1 day ago
+36
It's always pretty annoying when a villain claims that everything that happened, even things there's no way they could have possibly predicted, was part of their intricate plan.
36
res30stupid1 day ago
+28
Yeah, the main issue here is that the show was written by Greg Weissman, one of the early pioneers of ongoing story arcs in kids' cartoons and plans within plans being a major staple of his; he was the creator of the show *Gargoyles* where this was the modus operandi of of main villain David Xanatos (to the point that TV Tropes even calls this the "Xanatos Gambit").
That said, it also shows that sometimes, even the best-laid plans can fail due to outside influence and in most cases, Xanatos didn't so much as *win* with a backup plan as much as salvage the situation into something to his benefit. And sometimes, no, he fucks up badly and can't fix things by himself, hence his frequent allying himself with the Manhattan Clan when he finds himself out of his depths, like when the Fairy King Oberon tried to kidnap David's son >!due to his being quarter-fae on his mother's side!< - Goliath teasingly asked Xanatos if he has a plan D after the latest plan falls apart.
28
TheTresStateArea1 day ago
+10
God I love Gargoyles so much.
10
jacobkosh1 day ago
+24
Every season of 24 was like this. The bad guys had so many double agents planted at every level of government and law enforcement that you wondered what they even needed secret nuclear devices or biohazard-tainted drugs for.
24
NotTobyFromHR1 day ago
+5
Wasn't jack Bauers dad an agent at one point. I think that's when I stopped watching.
5
Australiana1 day ago
+44
Baron Zemo in Captain America: Civil War. So many things outside his control fell the exact right way for his plan to come together.
44
Butagami1 day ago
+50
It's been a while since I saw it, but I read an analysis saying that what we saw in the movie wasn't his original plan (which was simpler and more believable), and that he amended his plan based on what happens during the movie.
50
Wazula231 day ago
+57
Yeah this one gets a pass I think, since his only real goal was to introduce a schism in the avengers. Which succeeded.
He didn't want to destroy them, or get rich, or even assassinate anybody. Just break the group up.
57
ebelnap1 day ago
+32
Yeah. If we listen to what he says in his very first scene - “I could get [the mission report] in other, bloodier ways” - then all he wanted was the video of Winter Soldier killing the Starks, and just escalated to bomb-planting when he couldn’t get it from the Hydra guy.
If he HAD gotten it, he probably would’ve just emailed it to them or leaked it online to the same schismatic result, but “Avengers answer an email” is not a gripping movie premise
32
SutterCane1 day ago
+5
WB: “But y’all would love it if we had a bunch of emails teasing the Justice League, right? *Right?*”
5
brom551 day ago
+5
The 'ol Sheev pivot
5
fcosm1 day ago
+41
as great as the Breaking Bad finale is, I always felt like Walt had got away from more dangerous situations during the show, and that he died there only because it was his time to.
41
ggrindelwald1 day ago
+28
Mr. White... he's the devil. You know, he is... he is smarter than you, he is luckier than you. Whatever... whatever you think is supposed to happen... I'm telling you, the exact reverse opposite of that is gonna happen, okay?
28
Underwater_Karma1 day ago
+18
I loved that line because it's basically a nod to the audience about plot armor.
Like "look we know it's ridiculous just strap in and enjoy the ride"
18
Wazula231 day ago
+13
Yeah, and as cool as the trunk gun was, it still succeeds basically due to dumb luck.
13
Kujaix1 day ago
+3
I disliked that Mike just straps him to a radiator with a zip tie and dies in a lame way.
Everybody not Walt in the 2nd half of the final season just interact with him like 4 1/2 seasons of insanity didn't happen.
3
renoscottsdale1 day ago
+25
Game of Thrones did this a lot in later seasons after they ran out of book material. Ramsey succeeds for 3 seasons due to dumb luck, contrivances and forced convenience.
25
Blackjack9w71 day ago
+9
Oh man, the plot armor Ramsay had was beyond absurd. He acted in a way that would have literally every lord in the North betray him as soon as possible, instead no one does. In fact, Smalljon Umber, son of the most loyal Stark bannerman, delivers the last Stark heir right to him for absolutely no reason. I remember it was so egregious that the running theory before the Battle of the Bastards was that Smalljon and the northerners would betray Ramsay during the battle and it was a ploy to get Rickon into Winterfell. Why the hell would anyone be loyal to him when he’s not just sadistic and batshit insane, but he also kills his own father who is the only source of stability in the North? And that’s not getting into him and Ser Twenty of House Goodmen sneaking into an army camp undetected and causing mass havoc.
Also, people forget that as good as S4 was, it did have shirtless Ramsay defeating a team of the best Ironborn fighters in armor with actual weapons.
9
fredagsfisk1 day ago
+6
That's true not just for him, but also for every intelligent character from season five onwards.
Littlefinger, Varys, Tyrion, Sansa, etc all just do random bullshit that happens to work out *if* the plot needs it - with no connection to the actual logic of it - while all the other characters keep going on about how smart and dangerous they are.
Euron also has everything handed to him, and Cersei (who in the books is heavily besieged and still manipulated by Littlefinger) just does whatever the f*** she wants with zero consequences.
6
insaneHoshi1 day ago
+1
The book is like this as well, like Ned Stark only dies because it just so happens that robbery is assassinated by a plot guided pig.
1
renoscottsdale1 day ago
+4
They specify in the books, though, that Cersei and Lancel got him drunk and if that didn't kill him, there would have been another attempt
4
johnbrownmarchingon21 hr ago
+2
But Robert was always drunk and hadn't even been hunting a boar initially.
2
MarcusP214 hr ago
+2
Lancel replaced his normal wine with fortified wine so he was completely smashed instead of his standard sozzled.
2
insaneHoshi1 day ago
+1
He is perpetually drunk; it’s only plot contrivance it happens when ned discovers the truth.
1
johnbrownmarchingon21 hr ago
+1
Plus everything possible going wrong for Robb after he'd kicked Tywin's ass six ways to Sunday.
1
Zerometro1 day ago
+9
This happened all the time in The Flash. Most notably the Reverse-Flash kept finding different ways of coming back because Tom Cavanagh was such a good actor and they wanted to keep him on, but even when they moved on to other villains this happened. Team Flash would swear up and down that they've finally got the Big Bad of the season with whatever new contraption they made only for the Big Bad to develop some new power out of nowhere that allowed them to escape. A few times it seemed like Barry Allen on the rest of the heroes would just stand around and watch as the big bad escaped. Then they'd have to come up with some ridiculous reason to explain how Barry could defeat them in the end despite having made the villain extremely powerful. It became so frustrating to watch.
9
Dnashotgun1 day ago
+2
Fell off in S2 when they beat Zoom in an interesting and foreshadowed way but bc it's ep 19 of a 22 ep season he just yells "YOU CAN'T LOCK UP THE DARKNESS" and speed walks out of the trap
2
LeftRat1 day ago
+8
Self-aware example. In *The Emperor's New Groove*, the villains straight up lose a race to be at the climax. They still just show up. It's pointed out by the heroes and the villains admit that it doesn't make sense.
8
Georgie_Leech9 hr ago
+1
It helps that like 10 minutes later we get "What are the odds that lead me to here?"
1
LastCall20211 day ago
+14
I’ll probably get killed for this but pretty much everything Christopher Nolan’s joker did was a product of this.
From the opening scene where he drives a school bus into a perfectly sized gap in an identical line of buses that were passing at the perfect moment, to pretty much everything else he did in that film, his success was based entirely on unimaginable luck.
14
henry_tbags13 hr ago
+6
The bus thing is extremely silly anyway, but I always assumed that Joker had control of / planned all the buses? And not just the one that crashed into the bank.
6
LastCall20219 hr ago
+1
I mean even assuming that being able to pre time their passing exactly, and having them keep a perfectly sized space open is an impossible stretch.
1
LimpLiveBush10 hr ago
+1
The joker has the worst plot armor of anyone in media that I’m aware of. The hoops Batman will jump through to explain not killing him sound like your average SNAP recipient defending their local billionaire.
1
res30stupid1 day ago
+15
Not a TV show, but the game Persona 2 was infamous for this back in the day. As a prefix, the game was originally released in Japan as a duology - "Innocent Sin" was the first half (which never got released outside of Japan due to one of the villains being a magically-wished Hitler) and "Eternal Punishment".
The first game has the heroes fighting desperately to prevent an end-of-the-world prophecy so that they can prevent Earth from being destroyed. They manage to defeat the villain and stop the plan. Hooray!
Then out of nowhere, a deranged woman stabs the main heroine with a cursed spear, fulfilling the prophecy and destroying the world. So to undo the entire end-of-the-world scenario, the heroes agree to a very bad deal with the devil, erasing the current timeline and trying again but being cursed to forget each other so as to not cause their memories of the old timeline to leak through and cause the world to potentially end again. End of part one.
Then it's revealed in Eternal Punishment that this didn't stop the demonic creature that caused the first game's plot - the first storyline in the game, about a serial killer murdering by request if you perform a magic ritual, was because said demon forced a villain from the first game to remember and drove him insane and he's trying to destroy the world because of it, putting the heroine in danger once again.
15
goldenbugreaction1 day ago
+13
Reiner, until S4 redemption arc.
13
rabid_J1 day ago
+18
"He moved his consciousness from his brain to his big toe" is some big time dumb writing. Just have them miss his head instead of that contrived bullshit.
18
anrwlias1 day ago
+11
The Joker from The Dark Knight Returns has a plan that requires many specific things to turn out just right. This is sometimes justified by saying that he had a "chaos plan" where would just adapt to any given outcome, but it comes down to much the same thing.
11
Ryuugan8021 hr ago
+1
Hell, the Joker's Plan in The Dark Knight counts too.
Actually, the mere fact that the Joker is alive at all after all this time is an ass pull in itself.
1
ascagnel____19 hr ago
+1
Same with Silva's escape plan in Skyfall.
1
Cyke1011 day ago
+3
Not quite a perfect fit, but really [all the tropes were in the the Captain's favor here, until they were subverted.](https://youtu.be/o8_9gHzW8vo?si=otyZlQI6AgnT04Bc)
3
hewkii21 day ago
+9
It’s a book but will soon be a TV series - most of the back half of the Stormlight Archive books
9
TalynRahl1 day ago
+2
SLA 1-3 are fantastic stuff.
Then Brandon started huffing his own farts, and we get the 4th and 5th books, which honestly feel like they’re from a different series.
Book four is basically “what if we wrote Die Hard, but made it shit”
And then book 5 is “what if we took the notes from a group therapy session, and turned it into a book”
2
ButthurtBilly1 day ago
+2
The last season of Star Trek: Discovery saw the seasoned crew of the Federation's most advanced ship, with a drive capable of teleporting them anywhere in the galaxy near-instantanteously, consistently outwitted by two petty criminals in a regular shuttlecraft using information they shouldn't know, resources they shouldn't have access to, and technology they shouldn't be able to afford. Our brave protagonists would leave them dead in space, steal the piece of the MacGuffin they're after, nuke the site from orbit, leak false information about the season-long treasure hunt and then arrive at their next destination to find those fuckers had already been there for three days. Twice! These are also the *only* two recurring villains of the season despite the insurmountable stakes of the MacGuffin they're pursuing, so it *really* stretched credulity that we need to keep running into this random angsty mall goth and her nepo baby slime boyfriend.
It wasn't all bad, of course; in the last episode the show *ended forever.*
2
FM10911 day ago
+2
William Lewis (Pablo Schreiber) from Law & Order: SVU was this in each and every episode. A monstrousous serial rapist whose only hobby in life seems to be hurting women, by his own admission. Before hitting the show he has gotten away with r*** through technicalities, clerical errors, or just plain old incompetence.
The man always found a woman naive enough to convince her that he's innocent. First his lawyer, who convinced the jury that the cops had a vendetta. Not helping that Lewis raped, tortured and killed a witness, an elderly lady who saw him.
Then, when he is being tried for kidnapping Olivia Benson (Mariska Hargitay), a juror falls for Lewis, and later she bakes him poisoned brownies to escape jail in an ambulance.
No matter the situation, Lewis always found a way to hurt women, and when it seems Benson finally has cornered him, Lewis pulls one final 'f*** you' and plays Russian R******* with her.
Except he doesn't kill her, he kills himself in way that frames Benson (i.e. with his non-dominant hand) so that he avoids more jail and ruins Benson's life. Only silver lining is that the last one didnt work, but it was still infuriating that Lewis got away with all the horrors he put people through.
If you see the show you will understand, Lewis was transparently evil that you'll find hard to believe anybody would eat his act.
2
MatthewHecht1 day ago
+3
I have seen several light hearted comedies where this happens.
On a more serious note Young Justice comes to mind.
On a positive note I am going with the second arc in Green Lantern TAS. It really made it feel like the villains were predestined to win and destroy the universe. This tied to the themes well.
3
MrPotatoButt1 day ago
+2
> In Game of Thrones for example, Euron Greyjoy somehow builds a massive fleet out of nowhere even though the Iron Islands have no wood, then somehow manages to ambush Daenerys and kill one of her dragons from an absurd distance.
That is not a flaw in writing; that is the flaw that is cinematic media, where TV cannot always put in 20 mins of *exposition*.
The books and TV episode already point out that Euron has been an exile for years, and that he has built up a fleet off the screen. That's how he has that massive fleet (another flawed illusion stemming from cinematic media). He did not build it from wood that did not exist in the Iron Islands, where he was not spending his time at, while in exile.
2
Lille71 day ago
+32
He explicitly says in the show they are going to build a 1000 ships. Not that he has them. And then a couple of episodes later they are all done.
32
ebelnap1 day ago
+8
Cracked had a funny bit about that, where they were like, “he probably just went into a shit-ton of debt to build them with the Iron Bank, so he’s just as fucked as Cersei financially”
8
always7771 day ago
+17
I just watched the episode and yea...Yara and Theon run off with most all of his ships and he orders his men to basically strip everything from their region to build a new fleet
17
KeremyJyles13 hr ago
+1
Turns out your flaw was not paying attention to dialogue and context because you are completely wrong based on what the show tells us.
1
Mundane-Area60671 day ago
+2
The Batman TV series was great for this.
2
theclansman2221 hr ago
+1
The end of Ozark, just generally the cartel in any tv show, it’s always this simultaneously all powerful and completely unpredictable force of nature that works in mysterious ways. First you get kidnapped, often in broad daylight, then you are brought to a cartel boss who makes ridiculous demands while speaking in riddles and then they disappear only to show up out of the blue a few episodes later doing the same thing.
1
Ferdiprox1 day ago
-9
I call it the "Giant Eagle phenomenom" originating from LotR. Because whenever something seemed too dire, the Eagles came. And this concept is in every movie/series that has the concept of enemies i think.
I always laugh when the plot tries to kill someone but the "Eagles" arrive in whatever form necessary.
-9
oorza1 day ago
+9
Except the Eagles weren’t an ass pull in Lord of the Rings, they show up twice. Once to foreshadow that Gandalf has ascended above Saruman and will become The White and the second time to add brevity to the ending. They don’t materially help at all except to fly Gandalf to safety.
9
LeftRat19 hr ago
+2
Also -
A. it's made abundantly clear that Sauron focusing on something spells doom for it. If you just fly at the mountain, you will be seen and killed, explaining why the eagles cannot help. Distracting Sauron is the whole point of the battle at the Black Gate!
B. We see fellbeasts! We see that Mordor has the skies!
Also, the entire heft of the narrative is that Sauron expects the flashy, the strong, the big to carry the ring - that someone will ride in with a flock of giant eagles or at the head of an army. That is his biggest weakness! That's one of zhe biggest points the movie makes!
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