Interestingly, Costa Rica, which has historically seen low crime rates and a stable democracy is now building a mini version of this prison where the groundbreaking ceremony was attended by the El Salvador president. This 5000 inmate capacity prison upgrade will be ready in six months.
Costa Ricans, for the most part appear to be in full support of this as they are use to low crime, but have had their lives up, ended by this recent drug cartel increased violence.
121
branflake7773 days ago
+60
*Low for Latin America for context.
60
FuggyGlasses3 days ago
+9
This is why.
https://www.americasquarterly.org/article/reaction-laura-fernandez-wins-big-in-costa-rica/
9
notjustsome-all3 days ago
+24
Yeah, Costa Rica has seen an uptick in violent crime, which used to be quite rare. It’s still mostly gang related, but the increase has been visible.
Inflation and the devaluation of the dollar have been a double whammy for Costa Rica. It’s harder for locals to get by these days.
24
EstilodelLoki3 days ago
+2
San Jose is not like the rest of the country. It has significant crime, I would not recommend visiting the city if you are not a tico.
2
porgy_tirebiter2 days ago
+2
Honestly, I’m not even sure I know the way to San Jose
2
throwawayhyperbeam2 days ago
+10
Listnookors strongly dislike this as they type from the comfort of their chair in their free, safe country
10
____DEADPOOL_______2 days ago
+2
I grew up in Central America and witnessed, firsthand the days when the US dumped all the gang members into El Salvador. Things just went straight to shit a few years after that. I used to feel relatively safe walking the streets, as long as I didn't have any beef with anyone. Suddenly, you had a wave of kidnappings, murders, harassment, etc. The whole place was turned upside down.
Now, you had to go out less, be on the lookout, avoid certain places, but eventually, you'd run into them in one way or another.
The governments barely did anything and only made false promises and when they got into office, they would plunder the coffers, so people were absolutely fed up and clamoring for dictators that would come with an iron fist and put an end to crime. They got what they were begging for and now the country is peaceful again.
OF COURSE piling 486 people into a single judgment ruling is absolutely inhumane and wrong, especially for those who may be innocent.
My controversial take would be that the ones covered head to toe in gang tattoes, and still keep flashing them in jail, there's no way they're innocent of brutal crimes. They deserve to be put away for life or until they're old enough to not be able to harm people. They are violent and sick in the head.
Should the conditions be as horrific as what we've seen in the documentaries that have come out, probably not. I disagree with that. I don't want revenge or to torture them for their remaining days.
Maybe have some sort of tiered system where they are put through the worst at first and then gradually given a better life.
I think the reason they're being treated the way they are is because the population is so sick of it that they never want even the remote chance of it happening again, so that's why they're being super harsh. Also to deter anyone from wanting to join or form a gang again. These people have to be made examples that organised crime will land you in a really bad situation forever.
2
UbiSububi83 days ago
+41
“This regime suspends the rights to a legal defense and to the inviolability of communications, and also extends administrative detention timelines,” the commission said in a statement.
41
-ExodiaObliterate-3 days ago
+123
As a Salvadorian, where were ya'll when my family was getting killed and when my grandma had to stay indoors for days without food because MS13 gave her Colonia a curfew when they had hits on people?
Spare me with your virtue signaling. This is what we voted for. This is what we wanted. And, we're safe now, no thanks to you people.
123
LogFar51383 days ago
+75
Yea people really don’t understand the extent of the violence prior to Bukele.
Buses being stopped and gang members murdering everyone on the bus then lighting it on fire type shit. Just because a rival gang used the bus line days prior.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mejicanos_massacre
75
juanzy2 days ago
+6
I think that’s also important- El Salvador had an anomalously high violent crime rate. Like almost statistically impossible, which necessitated this kind of approach.
I think what people are worried about is other countries with right wing leadership “learning” from this, especially when it comes to nonviolent crimes.
6
Chpgmr2 days ago
+1
Im glad he was able to achieve what he did. The question now is can he restore his consolidation of power or does he have to maintain it to keep the peace, and what happens when he is no longer in power?
1
midnightcatwalk3 days ago
-24
We understand quite well.
We still don’t condone dictators.
Shouldn’t be that difficult, and yet there are always a bunch of weirdos here who can’t 🤷♂️
-24
Aggravating-Ad80872 days ago
+3
There is no action in just understanding.
3
S00THING_S0UNDS2 days ago
+3
That's horrible.. I'm sorry you had to suffer through something like that. I couldn't even imagine.
3
howescj822 days ago
+4
I don’t know what all is happening in El Salvador but isn’t a mass trial for 486 people just a show trial?
4
GhostRappa952 days ago
+2
You’re not in danger because you don’t criticize the regime.
2
Ohthatsnotgood3 days ago
+3
> And, we’re safe now, no thanks to you people
Yup, these people criticize now but were absolutely silent while your country was suffering. Desperate times require desperate measures.
Bukele isn’t a savior but he’s currently a better alternative.
3
DFWPunk2 days ago
+3
I'm curious. Do Salvadoreans hold the US accountable for exporting MS-13 to your country?
3
-ExodiaObliterate-2 days ago
+17
Yes, we do. We also hold the US responsible for what they did to us in the 80s during our Civil War, which is why current American opinions of our country don't really matter much to us.
17
burner25973 days ago
-35
Well lots of other countries have figured out how to have a functioning country without throwing away due process.
Remember, the road to hell was paved with good intentions.
-35
addctd2badideas2 days ago
+9
Have they? Have we?
9
Neilandio3 days ago
-11
Can't believe there's idiots that believe this shit.
-11
TamaDarya3 days ago
-43
Enjoy your family getting killed and staying indoors with no food for days because the government gives you a curfew when they're out on another purge, I guess.
>safe
You replaced one set of armed goons with another.
-43
putar543 days ago
+36
You are right, but it’s nobody’s place to judge but Salvadorans, especially when this was the murder capital of the world at one point. If they are happy with their leader, then let it be.
36
Violet_Paradox3 days ago
-29
Kim Jong-Un has a 100% approval rating too. They claim to be happy because dissent means being sent to a torture prison. That's how dictatorships work.
-29
putar543 days ago
+25
You are always welcome to talk with those from El Salvador, especially those who have seen the worst of the worst. The violence that plagued el Salvador was very real, and unlike Donald Trump, Nayib Bukele didn’t have to drum up fear through a constant news , all a Salvadoran had to do to be afraid was simply step outside of their homes.
25
pi0t3r3 days ago
+11
Read some Thomas Boerman reports on MS-13 and Barrio-18. Read up on how they forcibly claim young girls as girlfriends, r*** them, gang r*** them, and then kill by femicide. Read how they maintain control over neighborhoods through their networks of intelligence and how you could not escape them by relocating within the country.
11
TamaDarya3 days ago
-12
Feel free to read about your average military dictatorship and get back to me. Hint: it's not *different*.
>In February 2020, Bukele ordered 40 soldiers into the Legislative Assembly building to intimidate lawmakers into approving a US$109 million loan for the Territorial Control Plan
>Bukele has verbally criticized journalists, news outlets, and furthered press censorship.
>Following a controversial constitutional amendment on 31 July 2025, the Legislative Assembly enabled indefinite reelection, extended presidential terms from five to six years, and eliminated the two-round system.
Press censorship, armed goons in parliament, and indefinite reelection - all in the name of fighting the gangs, right?
And when the government thugs inevitably start using their unlimited power and presence to do the exact same things the gangs did, you will throw up your hands and say nobody could have predicted this.
-12
pi0t3r3 days ago
+7
>Enjoy your family getting killed and staying indoors with no food for days because the government gives you a curfew when they're out on another purge, I guess.
You were condescendingly downplaying the very real violence and terror experienced by the Salvadoran populace by referring to a hypothetical.
And then you seem to imply that the gangs are being used as boogeyman like how Republicans in the U.S. might do. I just twanted emphasize that these aren't gangs like the Crips or whatever, but are like the Taliban except more aggressive/brutal/violent.
7
TamaDarya3 days ago
-7
I am downplaying or implying *nothing*. I said what I said. You are the one cheering for a dictator.
Two things can be true at once - the gang violence was awful *and* this is not a liberation, but a takeover by another, "legal" gang who have been cleaning house.
-7
MisterGregory3 days ago
-7
To what end were they operating? How were they making their money, the gangs?
-7
midnightcatwalk3 days ago
-13
🥱
Spare us your dictator apologetics. Assuming you are free to do so.
-13
NotAnotherEmpire3 days ago
+21
"I object, this is guilt by association."
"Guilty of association!"
21
RobaDubDub2 days ago
+3
Four hundred and eighty six is enough to fill two jail cells over there
3
S00THING_S0UNDS2 days ago
I was thinking at least 4, but you're probably right.
0
asdf_lord2 days ago
+4
I wonder if future gangs will just, not get tattoos?
4
Stoner420Steve3 days ago
+7
Has Bukele seized dictatorial power and taken away some rights of his people. Yes.
Was this needed to make el salavador safe? Also yes.
He took drastic measures but he has accomplished something phenomenal.
7
Formal-Square-99433 days ago
+21
El salvador's handling of the whole crime situation has been an extremely positive case and a great policy benchmark. From 6,656 murders a year in 2015 to only 84 murders in 2025. Around 50 Thousand people saved from brutal murder had the murder rate remained constant. (And not kept increasing dramatically as it had until then).
Sure, it would be nice to have rights and legal defense, but when your nation is literally run by violent mass-murdering gangs, the best thing one can do is to mass-arrest them and solve it later as it can be seen.
The Incarceration rate for El Salvador currently stands at 90K People, twice the amount of people that would have died, most of them deserving it, those who criticize el salvador should be thankful for the innocent lives saved.
21
-drunk_russian-3 days ago
+37
I mean, it's easy to judge from the relative safety of a first world country and behind a keyboard.
Anyone remembers when Anonymous wanted to take on the Mexican cartels, treated it like a game, and then the Zetas cartel f****** kidnapped one of them?
37
MotivatedforGames3 days ago
+33
"I mean, it's easy to judge from the relative safety of a first world country and behind a keyboard."
- listnookor opinions in a nutshell.
33
ExpensivePoint39723 days ago
+10
"Maybe he's covered in gang tattoos because he likes art"
10
milespoints3 days ago
+3
There is something to be said about a system of government where is neither too little or too much law and order.
Clearly pre-Bukele El Salvador had too little and right now it has too much.
There can be a middle ground which is I think what most people would want
3
Evening_Feedback_4723 days ago
+4
Nah there can never be a middle ground with these groups ever heard of give an inch take a mile
4
FobhealachNuaEabhrac3 days ago
+33
>those who criticize el salvador should be thankful for the innocent lives saved
I'm curious, would you go to jail for the greater good of saving El Slavador? What if a loved one of your was going to jail? You may say those loved ones are innocent, that they're not gang members, but since when does that matter? Because at the end of the day, that's the price you pay and nobody wants to think about that.
33
rollie823 days ago
+7
It's not fair to say "would you possibly save yourself from being murdered by definitely putting your brother in jail". Better to consider something like "would you rather a country where you have a 1% chance of being murdered, or one where you have a 0.2% chance of being unjustly thrown in jail?".
7
YeetedApple3 days ago
+15
This is a false pretense though, those aren’t the only two options. You can still go hard after the cartels while still respecting due process.
15
Zkini13 days ago
-11
They’ve been releasing innocent as well. If you have a problem with what they did how would you have gone about the crime situation? I think extreme problems sometimes require extreme solutions. Police can’t manage the extreme crime of El Salvador in accordance to the law so they have to change it
-11
DFWPunk2 days ago
+5
When you're trying 483 people at one time the innocent are not going to get a fair trial.
5
aRadioWithGuts3 days ago
+10
Again, very easy stance to take if it’s not your freedom at stake. No one is saying the solution isn’t effective, they’re saying the deferral of human rights should be more important than it is.
10
Zkini13 days ago
-4
I get that. From a utilitarian perspective everyone gets to live a safe life now. If they had those tattoos that clearly indicate they’re in a gang, it’s all the evidence we need. The gang controlled cops and neighborhoods, intimidated witnesses. Arresting all of them is valid
-4
IZ38203 days ago
+34
That you can consider the historic abdication of legal due process a positive, regardless of results, speaks to a moral failure.
34
AlternativeScratch943 days ago
+10
El salvador is essentially in a civil war, as are a lot of these central/south american countries where the cartels are running wild. It is not unheard of for rights to be suspended in a time of war.
10
D1ngu53 days ago
+23
If they can be suspended at will by a dictator, then they are not rights, just priveliges.
23
Bleatmop3 days ago
+8
That's all they have been anywhere anytime. If you think otherwise is suggest you look at what happened to USians of Japanese heritage during WW2. Every country is filled with stories like that, especially in times of war.
8
IZ38203 days ago
+11
Yeah, you're right. We'll just take Bukele's word for it, I guess.
11
nukem1703 days ago
+3
I’ll take a moral failure than an unsafe neighborhood.
3
IZ38203 days ago
+4
Does he have any political prisoners yet?
4
eldrun17013 days ago
There’s nothing quite like virtue signaling from the comfort and warmth of your coıntry, is there?
0
IZ38203 days ago
My country is in the midst of scapegoat-fueled fascism, so call it what you will.
0
Violet_Paradox3 days ago
+14
You get to go from living in fear of gangs to living in fear of your government. There are a ton of innocent people in there, including victims of gang violence because they come up in their searches as having connections to gangs.
Bukele is also never going to cede power. They're going to live under a tyrannical regime until they overthrow it. A dictator is never a good idea.
14
sicckkilla2 days ago
+3
I'm not sure how people like you can assume a 3rd utopian answer will just appear out of thin air. The fact is that the situation in El Salvador is better than it's been in decades. Historically as a country begins to prosper then first world problems can be tackled but for the here and now the people of El Salvador are more worried about survival
3
roller_coaster3253 days ago
-10
Like every legal system, there are definitely people incarcerated who are innocent, unfortunately, and there was a time where at least 1000 people were let go due to lack of evidence. Is there any recent information stating that there are still alive portion of people incarcerated who were simply caught up in the dragnet?
-10
tegat3 days ago
+3
Nobody gets a lawyer during war. They just get shot. And that is considered acceptable, even if it turns out it was an innocent person by mistake.
Congrats on the achievement. Just make sure to dial these tactics back.
3
Neilandio3 days ago
+3
From criminals in the streets to criminals in the government. But it's totally ok, it's just a small price to pay! The criminal government said we can trust them, they are the GOOD criminals, not the BAD criminals. Look at how much murder rates have fallen! Surely the criminals in the government wouldn't lie about that, right? Surely you didn't surrender your freedoms and made yourselves a slave of the government because of some twitter propaganda, right?
3
DietCokeJon3 days ago
The thing with human rights is that it cant be relegated to "nice to haves," or they aren't inalienable. What's happening in El Salvador is not justice, its containment of violence at the expense of human rights.
Take it a step further in a thought experiment. Imagine there are fifty people in a lineup and one of them is guilty of brutal, unimaginable crimes as the head of a cartel or paramilitary organization. If he is released he will continue his reign of terror and undoubtedly kill thousands. The detainers do not know which of the fifty men is the guilty one, and they have no way of finding out. They decide to execute them all for the greater good.
You can see how when presented in that way (although obviously extreme) the veil of justice is easily uncovered. Justice requires that you put yourself in the shoes of the unjustly accused, and laws are designed around this concept (i.e. innocent until proven guilty in criminal US cases)
HOWEVER, that being said, the situation in El Salvador was very extreme. This was less about law and more about the reclaiming of stability and peace. This was less a round up of criminals and more of a civil war. Justice, in all its attempted forms, is imperfect. Threats to existence and safety warrant extreme responses from individuals, and the governments in cartel-infested countries are very much at risk of destruction. In the thought experiment above, now imagine the 50 men as citizens of Nazi Germany (who did nothing wrong), and the one villain as Hitler. The allies would have taken that deal instantly, morals be damned.
If the risk itself is a threat to the very morality that champions human rights, the first and understandable response is to eliminate the threat. Its not always right (often its just a pretense for violent action) but its why countries justify going to war, its why the US drone strikes weddings, and its why El Salvador has chosen to round up potential criminals who were devastating the country.
Justice comes after stability. Human rights can only be enforced by from a position of power.
0
milespoints3 days ago
-6
Those who would give up essential freedom to purchase safety deserve neither freedom or safety
-6
tegat3 days ago
+6
Of course you misquoted: Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase *a little temporary* safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety
6,656 murders a year is not a little. And doesn't seem temporary either.
6
milespoints3 days ago
+1
The entire phrase was written with regards to obscure tax disputes so it doesn’t really apply to how people use in modern times but nevertheless i agree with the sentiment.
1
Actual-Carpenter-903 days ago
-1
The big difference is that El Salvador is not important to the drug trade and that’s why the government has been able to do this.
-1
dannylew3 days ago
+2
How many of them were law abiding residents trafficked from the US?
Until all of them are returned safely back here, nothing is good about this story.
2
GreatScottGatsby2 days ago
+2
"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."
I will not condone sending people to death camps via mass trials. Every case deserves to be heard for not every single one is the same.
74 Comments