· 180 comments · Save ·
News & Current Events Apr 16, 2026 at 8:00 PM

El Salvador's Bukele signs reform allowing life prison sentences for people as young as 12

Posted by BendicantMias


El Salvador's Bukele signs reforms allowing life prison sentences for people as young as 12
AP News
El Salvador's Bukele signs reforms allowing life prison sentences for people as young as 12
Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele has signed into law constitutional reforms to permit life prison sentences for people as young as 12.

🚩 Report this post

180 Comments

Sign in to comment — or just click the box below.
🔒 Your email is never shown publicly.
BendicantMias Apr 16, 2026 +158
>Previously, the maximum sentence in El Salvador was 60 years for adults and less for youths. The reforms slated to take effect April 26 would create new criminal courts to try cases. They also stipulate a mandatory review of life terms decades into the sentences, depending on the age of the convict and the gravity of their crimes. >Following a burst of gang violence in 2022, Bukele announced a then-temporary state of emergency, which has become the new normal in the Central American nation as it’s been extended for years. He suspended constitutional rights and locked up more than 1% of El Salvador’s population, often on vague charges with little evidence. Prisoners are often judged in mass trials and lawyers regularly lose track of where their clients are. >It’s fueled accusations of human rights abuses and arbitrary detention, but also sharply dipped homicide rates in a country long terrorized by gangs, handing Bukele soaring popularity levels.
158
Any-Profile9019 Apr 16, 2026 +52
Didn't Sweden do something similar this year? Maybe not life imprisonment, but the policy of not punishing kids didnt seem to be working there either. [https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gw49gk13xo](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gw49gk13xo)
52
YqlUrbanist Apr 16, 2026 +87
That article says "some of these offenders could face prison sentences". That's pretty far away from "allowing life sentences". I'm not sure if Sweden was previously just telling kids to behave after they murdered someone, but some punishment makes sense. Life in prison definitely doesn't.
87
Difficult-Square-689 Apr 17, 2026 +11
Those kids who tortured that Japanese girl to death definitely deserved at least life in prison and castration. 
11
Atomic-Bell Apr 17, 2026 +6
And that’s the controversial aspect of his ruling. From what I understand, he’s created the framework to allow the judges to have power in situations like those. Was the case of Junko Furuta a one off? I damn well hope so but if something similar were to happen again, I don’t think it’s a bad idea to have the laws to allow a proper punishment rather than juvie until they’re 18 and a sealed record (though I know this isn’t how those 4 were punished).
6
Acceptable_Slice_325 Apr 17, 2026 +11
No one was "not punishing" kids for committing violent crimes
11
IWillKeepMakingAccs9 Apr 16, 2026 +105
guess the maras will have to train toddlers to use a gun then.
105
Kadak_Kaddak Apr 17, 2026 +7
If it doesn't work will they go after pregnant women?
7
OfficeZestyclose9952 Apr 17, 2026 +1
Walmart: get your fetus guns, folks! only way to ensure your kid makes it out of the womb safely! now two for the price of one!
1
Vashsinn Apr 17, 2026 +1
They already start recruiting in elementary schools...
1
LwyrUpAmrca Apr 17, 2026 +167
I think non-Salvadorians fundamentally misunderstand what El Salvador used to be like versus what it’s like now. This guy’s approval rating is off the charts and the reason for that is basically wiped out violent crime
167
SpaceNigiri Apr 17, 2026 +22
Now that you say it, there's a crazy amount of spanish documentals, youtubers & streamers talking or visiting the country and the prisions, but I haven't seen a lot in english around.
22
Remarkable_Face_7123 Apr 17, 2026 +53
I think few places have ever been as violent and dangerous as el Salvador was 10 years ago, except literal war zones. Those from the first world will not have any frame of reference.
53
ExoticWeapon Apr 17, 2026 +35
I’ve lived in El Salvador and while some areas were dangerous like any other developing nation, by no means were they close to “literal war zones” the ignorance of some of you shows just how much of the world you’ve seen through major media outlets.
35
LwyrUpAmrca Apr 17, 2026 -3
Did…did you not look at murder statistics? At one point it was the highest in the western hemisphere
-3
Impossible-Fig-8463 Apr 17, 2026 +4
To call it a warzone, tone deaf
4
LwyrUpAmrca Apr 17, 2026
The Salvadorians would disagree
0
Impossible-Fig-8463 Apr 18, 2026 +1
because they never been in one
1
LwyrUpAmrca Apr 18, 2026 +2
Have you?
2
goomarbitch Apr 17, 2026 +13
People in general misunderstand cartels. Cartels are NOT like American gangs or even Euro mafias. Cartels are a paramilitary force that rivals government power, and central & south american governments are often weak. Cartels in many countries are a sort of shadow state with comparable influence / power as the legitimate government. There is no simple / moral solution anyone has been able to come up with so far & the violence against citizens is persistent and unimaginably brutal.
13
Vashsinn Apr 17, 2026 +11
I used to live in salvyland. Went to school about 2 ( two) blocks away fm my house. I have had my back-pack struck by a machete while running away from gang goons. ( I say back-pack because we couldn't aford back packs so my school book would be under my shirt on the back. Saved my ass... Literally. ) I left before I was 10. ( This was also in the 90s)
11
Commercial-Lack6279 Apr 17, 2026 +5
Most dictators start out as very popular and tough on crime. That’s usually how it starts.
5
LwyrUpAmrca Apr 17, 2026 +3
A lot of them artificially generate crises that it can respond to. Thats not the case here
3
Extra-Year4038 Apr 18, 2026 +1
In fact it is, he’s linked to ms13 members and he only acted on it after they didn’t get along anymore.
1
LwyrUpAmrca Apr 18, 2026 +1
MS-13 existed before Bukele
1
ExoticWeapon Apr 17, 2026 +19
Do you?? It’s the opposite, Native Salvadorans have no idea what they’re getting into. It’s “safer” in theater alone, crime still exists, drugs still exist, r*** still exists. What’s over are warlord like gangs and drug runners. At the price of various human rights violations and an ugly future. Lowering life sentences to allow 12 year olds? Who does this help? El Salvador Gov. / Bukele are imitating the U.S. by making prison labor the new slave labor. And also locking up criminals does nothing for why criminality existed in the first place. Mark my words, either the police or the military will quickly step into the vacuum of criminal power. I mean damn, Bukele already has secret ties with gangs and backstabbed them to achieve his “win”. He’s had people executed. I have spent months in El Salvador. I have very close family there. I know what narrative is being sold publicly. So don’t pretend like “violent crime” is gone or over. These are dark days for El Salvador and many of their local citizens (older people usually) don’t see the damage it will cause longer term. The younger people sort of do. The education system there isn’t doing anyone any favors and many of their adults today never got anywhere near college anyway. Even though a couple of the colleges have become propaganda ridden and bubbles for the rich. So yeah congrats I guess, very reminiscent of when the U.S. finally went after mobs. And we all know the U.S. was perfect after that right??
19
LwyrUpAmrca Apr 17, 2026 +4
Yeah, when people are getting gunned down in the streets, eight year olds are being forced to join gangs, and schoolgirls are being raped basically any measure that can make life better looks good. It’s easy to arrogantly say “how dare he?” But I didn’t see you deciding to move to San Salvador
4
Any-Profile9019 Apr 17, 2026 +3
It was unequivocally better after the US introduced RICO and started gutting every crime family in the US. You are a sheltered American chastising a population living with some of the most brutal violence imaginable. Why do you dumbasses keep bringing up BuT Iz nOT Purefct!?! No legal system is, crime even exists in peaceful Scandinavian countries. And why is Bukele negotiating with the gangs suddenly a bad thing? Every South American country with this problem has tried something similar and failed and all of a sudden Bukele backstabbing two gangs that basically paralyzed his country is all of a suddenly awful? These organizations exist because the US has an insatiable desire for drugs and dont give a single shit who it hurts to get it.
3
[deleted] Apr 17, 2026 +1
[removed]
1
adamkex Apr 17, 2026 +1
Can you elaborate on how it's nationalised
1
musclemommyfan Apr 17, 2026 +2
Yes. The gang that is now terrorizing the public is the state security apparatus rather than the crime syndicates that Bukele cut deals with to keep things quieter.
2
adamkex Apr 17, 2026 +1
How come this isn't really being reported on by western media?
1
chromeshiel Apr 17, 2026 +1
It's a great achievement, but not to be a killjoy, it often starts like that. There's something to be said about the corrupting pull of absolute power. Some strongmen have managed restraint, and gave a path back towards regular democracy after their reign, but they've not been many.
1
LwyrUpAmrca Apr 17, 2026 +1
It’s too soon to say. Anyone can hold absolute power when their approval rating is around 90%. If it comes down, then we might see how democratic his inclinations are
1
farukosh Apr 18, 2026 +1
I think the issue is... When enough is enough though no? Like 12 year old going for life sentence sounds that Bukele is might going a bit too far, especially in a system that's quite... Quick, to say the least. Things can improve until they start "unimproving"
1
musclemommyfan Apr 17, 2026 -18
That's great, but doesn't justify all of the innocent people being used for slave labor. At the end of the day he's a fascist.
-18
LwyrUpAmrca Apr 17, 2026 +3
Please define “fascism” because it’s not any policy you don’t like or agree with
3
[deleted] Apr 17, 2026 +21
[deleted]
21
OakenGreen Apr 17, 2026 +11
Was the Pax Mongolica an argument for Mongol invasion? No. El Salvador traded one problem for another. It’s great they solved their initial problem but now if they can’t get under the heel from this one their good times are going to very quickly become bad times. They already are for some. That will continue to grow.
11
[deleted] Apr 17, 2026 +3
[deleted]
3
rainbowwithoutrain Apr 17, 2026 +102
Here in Mexico two girls in the age of 15 and 13 years old murdered a “friend” who was also 15 years old because she “stole” the other 15yo boyfriend. The 15 yo was convicted only with 2 years and 10 months, and the 13yo was convicted to 11 months probation. They planed, perpetrated, recorded, and buried the victim in the backyard and lie the girls mother about don’t see her that day. I’m sorry but having under 18 didn’t make you a good person who committed a mistake.
102
Lard523 Apr 19, 2026 +2
I don’t believe youth should get away with any less charges than an adult for a major crime. It’s clearly orchestrated and they knew what they where doing. I see no issue of sentencing teens for life or multiple decades for major violent crimes. As a plus having major consequences shows other people it’s unacceptable behaviour that will be punished.Them getting away with a slap on the wrist shows other teens yes you to can do this for basically no huge consequence.
2
Soft_Marionberry4932 Apr 16, 2026 +795
As if 12 year olds could grasp what that really means and think twice.
795
Atmacrush Apr 17, 2026 +103
Iirc a boy was raping another kid while another boy was shoving rocks down her mouth so she could not scream. They're like ~~12-13~~ 12, 13, and 14yo. That was last month or something. ‘Rocks in her mouth’: Teens charged in r*** of 12-year-old girl in Miami seek bond  – NBC 6 South Florida https://share.google/rqJSu4pEDNpAF3Chc
103
Elardi Apr 17, 2026 +64
Yeah. If a 12 year olds doing that level of heinous shit, they’re a lost cause. You can point to things that shaped them to be that way, but that’s ultimately irrelevant to whether they should be amongst the rest of society.
64
FrankRemu Apr 17, 2026 +3
Nadie dijo que no fueran capaces de cosas horrendas, la cuestión es otra, el cerebro humano se termina de desarrollar a los 21+ años, y una de la partes que más tarda es la corteza prefrontal, que es la de toma de decisiones. De todas maneras, también hay un problema de salud mental, la sociedad podría evitar muchos crímenes si detectaramos patrones de psicopatía de forma temprana, ya que hay psicopatas funcionales gracias a tratamientos, y no necesariamente implica que tengan que hacer monstruosidades. El enfoque punitivo de menores, es solo populismo barato, no soluciona ningún problema, el enfoque en esa edad siempre debiera ser tratamiento psicológico para reformar a las personas, privación de libertad mientras siga siendo un peligro para el resto. Y obviamente, la prevención, pero como ese gobiernos populista toma decisiones desde la emoción primitiva, sin pensar en alternativas que requieran un esfuerzo intelectual mínimo, llegan a estas brutalidades.
3
EricLFC Apr 17, 2026 +2
El dia que alguien presente un plan factible de lo que estas diciendo, hablamos. Asi como estamos, es simplemente imposible. Primero por la cantidad de falsos negativos y falsos positivos que esos estudios dan. Segundo por el bajo porcentaje de reforma que tratamientos proveen (el "tratamiento" suele continuar de por vida). Tercero por la enorme cantidad de pacientes que tenes seguir. Esos estudios no se pueden terminar en un dia. Se le tiene que dar seguimiento a la persona por mucho tiempo para que el estudio tenga algun tipo de valor y no existen ni los especialistas suficientes ni las instalaciones suficientes para resolver ese problema. Hasta que haya una buena solucion en la mesa, a la psiquiatria no le confio la sociedad
2
FrankRemu Apr 17, 2026 +2
Hay que pensar para que las cosas pasen, y poner un mínimo de esfuerzo, entiende eso. El corto placismo es el cáncer de una sociedad, porque es una incapacidad total de planear a futuro soluciones complejas.
2
EricLFC Apr 17, 2026 +3
Con eso estoy totalmente de acuerdo, pero esta solucion no me convence. Cuando alguien realice un plan concreto con casos de uso previos que demuestren su eficiencia, ahi veremos
3
OakenGreen Apr 17, 2026 +1
[ Removed by Listnook ]
1
Basic_Yam_715 Apr 16, 2026 +440
12-year-olds can do some heinous shit...
440
Soft_Marionberry4932 Apr 16, 2026 +341
No doubt about that, especially if they grow up in poverty surrounded by gang violence. Children in those environments are often pressured or manipulated into commiting those crimes without really understanding what's going on tho. They also don't fully understand the consequences of their actions at 12...well at least I didn't at 12 but maybe I'm a dumdum. It's also really stupid to just lock them up for life IMO, rehabilitation should be possible at that young of an age and then you get a tax payer instead of a convict for life.
341
Conscious_Formal_894 Apr 16, 2026 +98
Its not just about rehabilitation people want their pound of flesh.
98
luftlande Apr 17, 2026 +11
I don't disagree about rehabilitation being a good and sometimes even better end goal. But what _immediately_ is lost in conversations like these is that rehabilitation _takes time_. And needs to take time - years if necessary.
11
Soft_Marionberry4932 Apr 17, 2026 +3
Sure. From the top of my head let's say 10 years sentence. First six juvenile prison with school and counseling, last four in a more open setting with job training. 10 years probation after that.
3
ComfortableExotic646 Apr 17, 2026 +7
Cool. Now move to El Salvador and get elected on that platform.
7
Poop-Sandwich Apr 18, 2026 +1
Yeah if only we had places to rehabilitate and teach the young…places of learning….hmmmm
1
Tuxedo_Bill Apr 17, 2026 +1
But surely not the rest of their life, right?
1
EffectiveFilm7368 Apr 16, 2026 +59
You’re talking on Listnook, which is disproportionately American. Americans are obsessed with vulgar justice, like the death penalty and life imprisonment, and don’t understand simple concepts like rehabilitation and being a victim of circumstance/environment. You’re wasting your breath.
59
Low-Temperature-6962 Apr 17, 2026 +50
Most commenters here US or EU liberal college educated and there is not a lot of difference between them. What you should be asking is what do people in El Salvador think and why do they think that, because they are a self governing country, currently with democratically elected government. They are not a colony governed by Western public opinion. I share many of your concerns, especially the crime of "belonging to a gang" sounds like being charged for a crime not yet comitted or planned. It's probably more effective to work with Bukule than reject him, in the sphere of nation to nation relations.
50
Shiriru00 Apr 17, 2026 +15
The thing about most dictatorships is that people are all in favor of the strongman, until he comes for their own family. It's very easy to forget about the downsides when it's happening to others. But then one day your son doesn't come home and you get a slap in the face.
15
Any-Profile9019 Apr 17, 2026 +8
As opposed to before where his head would be delivered to their doorstep.
8
DarthGader Apr 17, 2026 +23
It's less about "rehabilitation" and a lot more practical. Kids are pressed into ganga because they dont get sentenced as heavily as adults. This law simply takes away that defense thus disincentivising gangs from using kids.
23
The_Strom784 Apr 17, 2026 +14
Brazil has a big issue with that.
14
lvl12 Apr 17, 2026 +4
You think the gang gives a shit how lightly the kids are sentenced? They're pressed into gangs because they are easily deceived and if they ho to jail the older guys won't.
4
DarthGader Apr 17, 2026 +22
Yes, gangs give a shit about how lightly kids are sentenced. If you invest in a 12 year old, you can get 6 years out of them before adult sentences apply, AND you have a member for life. Those constraints dont apply anymore. No point grooming a 12 year old for crime if they end up getting a life sentence. It's not easy to get a 12 year old to shoot someone. It takes a lot of time and effort.
22
Veldern Apr 17, 2026 +4
Ya, actually it's become a huge problem with car theft where I am. They use middle/high school kids specifically for it because they get lighter sentences and will be back out sooner
4
NeuroPalooza Apr 17, 2026 +20
I generally agree, but at the far end there are also psycopaths who are just a fundamental threat to society, and no amount of rehabilitation will solve the problem. Also US support for the death penalty (for convicted murderers) is about 50:50, so you can hardly make a sweeping generalization. Ironic considering you're calling others out for not understanding simple concepts :p
20
LogFar5138 Apr 17, 2026 +13
Salvadorians are all about Bukele. He is wildly popular. We shall see if he can pull off benevolent dictator.
13
faffc260 Apr 17, 2026 +20
well it went from one of the most unsafe countries in the region to relatively safe under his policies, as harsh as they are.
20
SelfWipingUndies Apr 17, 2026 +2
It's definitely more safe from gang violence, but did they trade gang violence for state oppression? I think there's a lot of nuance there. Amnesty International\] describes a situation where people are denied due process, kept in inhumane conditions, are tortured, etc. Maybe Salvadorans don't need to worry as much about getting robbed in the street, but being in the wrong neighborhood at the wrong time could lead to indefinite detention and torture from the government. [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/el-salvador-mil-dias-regimen-excepcion-modelo-seguridad-a-costa-derechos-humanos/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/el-salvador-mil-dias-regimen-excepcion-modelo-seguridad-a-costa-derechos-humanos/)
2
curiousengineer601 Apr 17, 2026 +8
Shockingly the people of El Salvador seem to be delighted by the progress made in the last few years locking up the gang members. This goes against the thinking of the US/European college students and their ideas about reforming MS13 gangs
8
Raider_Scum Apr 17, 2026 +3
Yeah, but this is el Salvador. If they arrest a 12 year old gang member for murder, and lock them up for 20 years. What kind of person is released to the world? They probably just understand the hopelessness of rehabilitating their gangbangers.
3
HerederoDeAlberdi Apr 17, 2026 +3
The solution is pretty simple, don't release them at all.
3
PassageMediocre1020 Apr 17, 2026 +1
They can change the law
1
No-Ear7988 Apr 16, 2026 +21
I think life sentence with chance of parole and a required evaluation by state at say 18 would be a good idea.
21
Basic_Yam_715 Apr 16, 2026 +4
I agree, very few people should have the key thrown away. I think the Nordic countries do a good job, from what I've read. Unfortunately, El Salvador...
4
kaamliiha Apr 16, 2026 +15
Depends on the euro country We have the other extreme. Anyone under 14 cannot be criminally charged. At all. Never Basically if one flipped and killed a 100 people the best that can be done is one year in a school for difficult kids In the 90s a 13 year old set his school on fire, and got no comeuppance due to age. Ca 10 people died and they cannot even legally publish his name.
15
Basic_Yam_715 Apr 16, 2026 +1
Yeah, no system is perfect, it seems. I heard the same about the murders of James Bulger in the UK. Too young to be locked up for life, and they keep changing their names because people dox them.
1
kaamliiha Apr 16, 2026 +5
UK also doesn't f*** around with underage offender anonymity. Heard if you published their names they'll even come after you into a different country and demand extradition Then again UK has no free speech anyway
5
Ok-Commercial-6865 Apr 17, 2026 +10
How outdated is your news? Sweden has a tremendous crime problem, particularly with Somali gangs. They're well known for recruiting youths because the youths carry out the heinous crimes and go unpunished.
10
Basic_Yam_715 Apr 17, 2026 +1
The propaganda I am fed says it's always towards the top, like I said, so are most of the Nordic countries in the [happiness](https://mieuxdonner.org/the-happiest-countries-and-findings-from-the-world-happiness-report/) report.
1
RevolutionaryYou2400 Apr 17, 2026 +5
Yk both can be true. Sweden took in alot of refugee from war torn countries and the kids of those refugees do commit a lot more violent crime than the native. And the gangs do recruit the youth to do it cuz they use to be able to get away with it. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gw49gk13xo
5
YqlUrbanist Apr 16, 2026 +1
Yeah, I think something like this is more reasonable. Obviously it's hard when you don't have a state that's particularly reliable, but at least recognizing that someone who commits a murder at 12 could be a whole different person at 18 makes sense.
1
deadlycool27 Apr 17, 2026 +20
I just saw a true crime video where a 13 year old raped and murdered a 62 year old woman for no other reason than he felt like it. Lock him up and throw away the key. The gamble of letting someone like that go back into society isn’t worth it.
20
Sky_Zaddy Apr 16, 2026 +1
Yeah, but does that negate what the commenter said?
1
Kind-Armadillo-2340 Apr 17, 2026 -1
If 12 year olds are doing heinous shit then it’s the government that failed.
-1
Basic_Yam_715 Apr 17, 2026 +4
If it's a pattern, but sometimes I think there are evil people.
4
Kind-Armadillo-2340 Apr 17, 2026 +2
We’re obviously not going to solve the debate on whether there are truly evil people or not. But what’s pretty uncontroversial is there are way more children driven to crime because society failed them than there are people who are born evil (assuming they exist).
2
Basic_Yam_715 Apr 17, 2026 +1
Hear, hear! Now for the next question, how do we fix that fucked up society...
1
Nemodin Apr 17, 2026 +1
Specially if they grow poor and desperate, with no social support, no education or family structure and roles. I wonder if there have been 10 or maybe 1.000 studies that corroborate this. This a childish (no pun intended) stupid law. But hey, it is simple to remember. Uneducated people love simple concepts and simple solutions (that, oh, surprise, don't work) Hint: "Smart people don't like me" Hint: "I love the uneducated" ...
1
HereIGoAgain99 Apr 17, 2026 +51
Were you ever 12? Because most 12 year olds can absolutely understand cause and effect. And the crimes are homicide, femicide, and r***. All things normal 12 year olds wouldn’t consider. I would doubt that any 12 year old doing that will ever be a productive member of society.
51
end-times2040 Apr 17, 2026 +20
the cartels know the laws and use them to commit the crimes, that's prob why they doing this. though not sure about the life idea..
20
MentirosoProfesional Apr 17, 2026 +3
It's exactly why they're doing it There's rampant underage criminals in all of south america because narcos and criminal gangs teach kids that they cannot get prosecuted, hit or shot by the police under any circumstances, so they can go steal, r*** and destroy whatever they want without any consequences. Maybe for people in the first world this sounds extreme, but in south America we all need prisons for minors at this point
3
Totoques22 Apr 17, 2026 +3
Gangs hire twelve years old on purpose because they can’t face too much trouble and the twelve years old knows it
3
Crazysteve9876 Apr 17, 2026 +3
Just imagine American kids committing school shootings and no gun reforms happens
3
blueshoesrcool Apr 17, 2026 +1
So it fails as a deterrent, yes. But still succeeds in keeping them away from society, harming others.
1
EST_Lad Apr 16, 2026 +39
Under a 1935 Soviet decree during the Stalin era, criminal responsibility was lowered to age 12 for minors accused of serious offenses. These youth were tried in adult courts and subjected to full adult penalties. I guess someone was inspired.
39
Evil_Eg Apr 16, 2026 +84
He will soon propose the death penalty for gang members and drug trafficking supporters (political enemies).
84
Any-Profile9019 Apr 16, 2026 +113
Death penalty for gang members, especially those accused of pressuring kids to become hitmen would be an extremely popular proposition.
113
Evil_Eg Apr 16, 2026 +23
Yes, but as I put in parentheses, it allows for the maneuver of including political opponents in the mix.
23
Any-Profile9019 Apr 16, 2026 +19
Probably, he's been documented as going after free press, but he enjoys a wide amount of popular support that he has little fear of political opponents gaining enough traction to threaten him.
19
musclemommyfan Apr 17, 2026 +1
For now.
1
pepe_acct Apr 16, 2026 +43
Sounds very expensive both for direct cost of prison and indirect cost of taking citizens out of productive economy
43
Any-Profile9019 Apr 16, 2026 +54
A 12 year old shooter isnt going to be a productive member of society to begin with.
54
mf-TOM-HANK Apr 16, 2026 +70
Bukele is nakedly autocratic. He'll be more than happy to steal whatever wealth he can from El Salvador and share it with those who help him consolidate power. *For my friends, everything. For my enemies, the law*.
70
Kind-Armadillo-2340 Apr 17, 2026 +24
That’s why he likes bitcoin so much. Easy for a bunch of it to disappear into some random wallet.
24
RecursiveCook Apr 17, 2026 +14
I’m sure he’s no saint, but El Salvador went from one of the most dangerous places on Earth to one of the safest in a very short span. Obviously a lot of horrible stuff is getting swept under the rug but with results like that he’s going to get a lot of support.
14
throwawayyyywego2024 Apr 17, 2026 +3
And in 5 years ppl will be rebelling and the cycle will continue. Authoritarianism sounds cool and feels good and get short term results but any people willing to throw away their freedom for security will find they have neither. What happens when the popple ask for free elections and he days no? Or when he does something and the press criticism comes out? How long before he has hos own secret police and start jailing father's and sons under the aegis of "state security"?
3
beorn961 Apr 17, 2026 +17
Is being thrown in torture prison for life with no trial for criticizing the government safe? We must have different definitions.
17
____DEADPOOL_______ Apr 17, 2026 +27
The thing of it is, psychologically, Guatemalans and El Salvadorians have always wanted an autocrat that is tough on crime. We've had several presidents promise this and none of them follow through, they've all been part of the system and plunder the coffers, give contracts to their buddies, etc. Bukelle actually did it and the promises made were kept, although at a very very high cost, but the population at large was sick of living day to day with these psychos who could kill you at a moment's notice. Unless you've lived in this environment of fear, you really won't get it. El Salvadorians will cheer this but there will be a bit of collateral damage which hopefully will be cleared out and the innocent won't be forgotten.
27
Unicornoftheseas Apr 16, 2026 +24
It appears the civilian population is fine with increases in costs for these measures. His popularity is very high and civilians are having a better life because of his actions.
24
Astrium6 Apr 16, 2026 +28
People like him tend to be very popular at first until the gangs are gone and he starts turning those mechanisms against ordinary people.
28
Appropriate-Bid8671 Apr 16, 2026 +22
There always has to be an enemy
22
musclemommyfan Apr 17, 2026 +1
They are publicly "fine" with it because they know that if they speak publicly about their concerns they will end up in CECOT next.
1
Unicornoftheseas Apr 17, 2026 +1
Until that is the case then it’s just speculation. He’s going to have a very hard time saying a bunch of 80 year old grandmas are hardened gangbangers who are active on the streets. Teenager with face tats who associates with gangbangers? Much easier.
1
zakslider Apr 17, 2026 +5
you arent factoring in that el salvador prisons contain forced labor, the prisoners produce revenue
5
BrushTraditional3324 Apr 17, 2026 +8
They use the prison population as full on slave labor.
8
CryptoThroway8205 Apr 17, 2026 +8
Cost is pretty low too. Iirc when guys were getting deported there CECOT is 80 to a giant cell, with like one bathtub. I can't remember how many meals a day it was but the food looked c****.
8
musclemommyfan Apr 17, 2026 +2
He's offsetting the cost by using tons of prisoners for slave labor.
2
BakaMorning Apr 16, 2026 +84
Oh look Americans pretending to know how it is living In a gang infested country.
84
throwawayhyperbeam Apr 16, 2026 +56
Lots of idealistic young Listnookors who think if you bury your head in the sand then problems will just go away.
56
londongastronaut Apr 16, 2026 -1
Banning you for that comment is insane but honestly given the quality of the discussion in these large subs, you're probably better off for it.
-1
Toilet-paper11z1 Apr 17, 2026 +3
Not justifying anything but most of the killing and extortions were done by kids age 12 even younger.
3
Traditional-Look8839 Apr 17, 2026 +3
Who in the hell dubbed the term “world’s coolest dictator” for this guy?
3
BendicantMias Apr 17, 2026 +1
No one. He called himself that. He didn't trick or mislead his people about what he was doing, he just told them it was necessary. The crime situation in El Salvador was so bad they supported it. And evidently still do. He doesn't deny that he's a dictator and neither do they. They just believe the tradeoff worth it.
1
ImFatandUseless Apr 17, 2026 +3
More south americans countries should have this. So many kids just gething away with murder, torture, deadly pranks, etc. And most just get a slap in the wrist.
3
sandy017 Apr 16, 2026 +20
eventually this "president" will reward people for accusing their neighbors of being gang members, whether they are or not.
20
StubbornPterodactyl Apr 16, 2026 +20
Has he not been doing that already? Anyone you don't like can be a suspected gang member at this point.
20
ThatGoob Apr 17, 2026 +6
Reminds me of what happened in my country. Now, that former president is rotting in the Hague for crimes against humanity.
6
B3telgeus3 Apr 17, 2026 +1
I mean it's easy to eradicate crime when the criminals tattoo themselves the gangs they belong too, anyone could have done that. But I'm happy for the Salvadorians either way but this is not easy to replicate. Can you imagine the criminals identifying themselves.
1
Taman_Should Apr 16, 2026 +22
This is the model that plenty of right-wingers in the US want to copy, seriously. It really shows just how cruel and unimaginative they are when the best solution they can come up with is building megajails and locking people up. From “Alligator Alcatraz,” to converting old warehouses into immigration detention centers, to Trump’s half-baked plan to reopen the ORIGINAL Alcatraz, there’s a clear pattern. They’re obsessed with prisons and the idea of punishing criminals, and their definition of “criminal” is rather flexible.  Remember when they “joked” about sending Obama or Hillary Clinton to Guantanamo Bay to face justice for all the evil crimes they definitely committed? That was before CECOT captured their fancy. Bukele was enough of a madman to actually implement the “just lock everyone up and sort it out later” conservative fever-dream, human rights and due process be damned. Of course they want their own equivalent now. When the mass-arrests first started in El Salvador, you could observe them getting hard over it in real time. Because that’s what they wish they were allowed to do with various groups in the US. “But look! It WORKED for El Salvador!” they’d say. Uh huh. There is probably no end to the insane bullshit that can be made to appear superficially successful if you simply don’t care about the human cost of making it look that way.  Bukele: “Look everyone! I single-handedly solved gang violence forever, and all it took was giving me absolute power to disappear anyone I want into my shiny new Superjail, where they’ll probably never be heard from again! Even if their only crime was having suspicious tattoos! But anyway, isn’t that a FAIR tradeoff?” Bukele stans: “Hell yeah, sign me up!” 
22
BendicantMias Apr 16, 2026 +22
Funnily enough, the US already has the biggest prison population in the world. People might assume that's China, but nope, the US beats them out too despite having only a quarter of the population - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_incarceration\_rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate) The US also has the 5th highest number of incarcerated people per 100k inhabitants, only beaten out by Turkmenistan, Rwanda, Cuba and ofc El Salvador (China falls all the way to rank 132 here). So there really isn't all that much for the US to learn from El Salvador. It's just a more extreme version of what America already is.
22
Taman_Should Apr 16, 2026 +7
I know, but that’s not enough for some people. The US already having the largest incarcerated population probably doesn’t even register. It’s the idea of imprisoning an entire designated class of people in one fell swoop that gets certain Americans excited. They’ve been primed by the toxic media they consume to root for the mass-arrests of their political opponents. 
7
Any-Profile9019 Apr 17, 2026 +1
I bet China and Russia put forth very honest statistics on their incarceration rates.
1
One_Construction_653 Apr 17, 2026 +2
I was 12 once. I didn’t think about raping or hurting people.
2
YqlUrbanist Apr 16, 2026 +18
ITT: lots of people who seem to think the only solution to gang violence is full on dictatorship. He's only extended his "emergency" powers 49 times, I'm sure he'll give it up any day now and give people their rights back.
18
nvidiastock Apr 17, 2026 +40
Alternative ITT: People that don't have to live in El Savador telling people that do live there and are happy that they're not being butchered in stores in broad daylight that they're wrong for accepting any change from the status quo in the last 50 years. Would this have been better done a different way? Yeah. Would it have changed without him? Not likely. If I was from El Savador, I'd rather have him than the gangs.
40
estrea36 Apr 17, 2026 +3
This is the M.O of most dictators. The bar is so low for many countries that bringing stability is enough of a reason to remove term limits or restrict rights. He will grow increasingly paranoid in the coming decades as he gets older. Thats when the fun death squads show up.
3
nvidiastock Apr 17, 2026 +15
That still doesn't change the fact that life is much better for most people in El Salvador right now than it was pre-Bukele. If they are willing to live with that risk, why are so many people living comfortably and safely in the US and/or Europe so ready to cast judgement on them?
15
estrea36 Apr 17, 2026
I totally get that. It's easy for me to say being an American. Im just saying this improvement won't last. They will eventually suffer a crackdown with the added bonus of a civil war breaking out.
0
JohnMcDickens Apr 17, 2026 +9
Yeah people like him because it’s year 7, will they still like him by year 15? 20? Possibly, but I doubt it, eventually any critic will be a “gang supporter” and be jailed or disappeared.
9
estrea36 Apr 17, 2026 +7
And thats when the coupt attempts and revolutions start. The west loves to romanticize revolutions, but revolutionary leaders are usually bat shit crazy. So we'll likely see two or three factions willing to do anything and kill anyone to secure control in the distant future.
7
TheDeek Apr 17, 2026 +3
Bingo. In history there are a myriad of leaders who work at certain times of a country's trajectory but are overkill at others.
3
FeistyPromise6576 Apr 17, 2026 +1
It's not actually inevitable, there's been numerous cases even in modern times of dictators giving up power peacefully. They are less common and way less entertaining than the descent into batshit insanity ones so you tend to hear less about them. Bukele on the dictator scale is probably more likely than not to eventually take the singapore/Taiwan/South korea route and return power to the people.
1
TheGloryBe_throwaway Apr 17, 2026 +5
There are 12, 13, 14, and 15 year olds who have done serious serial killer/rapist shit
5
TheBanishedBard Apr 16, 2026 +3
Now now, in El Salvador twelve is middle age.
3
Lostinthestarscape Apr 17, 2026 +4
Lol - new gang taking over, they just wear badges.
4
Electronic-Radio-383 Apr 17, 2026 +2
This guy should have a life sentence. He’s evil.
2
JPenniman Apr 16, 2026 +1
[ Removed by Listnook ]
1
IndependentReal5788 Apr 17, 2026 +1
That’s sending messages for all teens ? Begins with parents at home ?
1
Commercial-Group4859 Apr 18, 2026 +1
Americans an Europeans will never understand what it is like live in a gang or cartel infested country. They are the only ones who oppose this. The same people who install ring cameras everywere and own guns in countries with the lowest murder rates 🤷🏼
1
LymeRicks Apr 16, 2026 -4
Always seems like El Salvador and Israel get a pass on this website. Weird. This is stuff that would get a very negative reaction most anywhere else.
-4
PanicAtTheDennys Apr 16, 2026 +20
What f****** subs do you browse where you see Israel ever getting a pass?
20
ragequitteroffureh Apr 17, 2026
Wouldn't death squads be more economical? Or is this actually for procuring slave labour? Disclaimer: I am not advocating for death squads.
0
ThatGoob Apr 17, 2026 +4
The Duterte Special
4
ragequitteroffureh Apr 17, 2026 +2
I forgot about him. Is he still alive? Anyway, I was mostly thinking of these guys that they had before: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_squads_in_El_Salvador
2
Lard523 Apr 19, 2026 +1
not necessarily, since you’d at this scale definitely be accidentally catching some innocent person who’s family would deny monetary compensation for damages and that could wipe out a whole lot savings. Plus you’d face more legal costs since you need to put more care into making sure people are actually guilty, since death is pretty permanent vs. stick in prison on suspicion of charges.
1
IamLarrytate Apr 17, 2026 +1
Gangs often use children as hitmen, kids get out at 18 and their families get paid. Will probably discourage that trend.
1
onetwentyeight Apr 17, 2026 +1
Bukekele
1
xxtanisxx Apr 17, 2026 +1
I’ll be curious how this goes. And correct me if I’m wrong because I don’t know their court system. I would assume the judge has some level of discretion here. Not all 12 years old would get life prison. There might be a scale on the severity of the sentence based on the insanity of the crime?
1
Potential-Fan-6148 Apr 16, 2026 -4
Creating a literal prison state.
-4
dwpea66 Apr 16, 2026 -6
There's your "world's coolest dictator". As a Salvadoran-American, this dude is a complete disgrace, even if the streets are safer or whatnot.
-6
DarkZ_No-Imagination Apr 17, 2026 +1
Salvadoran-american like in "my parents, great grandparents or someone at one point in my family tree came from El Salvador so now I'll talk about it without ever putting a foot in the country"?
1
dwpea66 Apr 17, 2026 +1
Both of my parents and I've been myself a few times. I hold dual citizenship through my parents
1
DarkZ_No-Imagination Apr 17, 2026 +1
>I hold dual citizenship through my parents I thought so, the only way people would complain or see a problem with this is if you didn't live in the country, if you are of high class and don't struggle with money and violence or if you are collided with gangs, it's hard to find a salvadorian who has struggled with all this shit that would complain about it unless they've lived a comfortable life out of the country
1
knowingmonster Apr 16, 2026 -11
Then what? Have 12 year die in prison of old age. The cycle won’t stop. This guy just pulled a dictatorship move that North Korea has in place and people rejoice?
-11
KvxMavs Apr 16, 2026 +7
What cycle? Crime rates in El Salvador is the lowest in the Americas. 
7
FerdinandvonAegir124 Apr 17, 2026 +1
They are now, but before his crackdown on gangs it was among the highest
1
Any-Profile9019 Apr 16, 2026 +9
Yes, when your neighborhood is regularly subjected to nightmarish violence, the people will be more than happy when someone takes control of the situation by any means necessary.
9
Jack071 Apr 16, 2026 -15
Minors are being used as hitmen by criminals in multiple countries due to a variety of reasons. Allowing them to be judged as adults is logical Knowing that murder is wrong is universal, if they cant even understand that they are a danger to everyone around them and should remain jailed
-15
natigin Apr 16, 2026 +20
You think it’ll serve as a deterrent?
20
LumpySpaceGunter Apr 16, 2026 +8
You should read up on the amount of people being imprisoned with no evidence, no known gang/criminal ties, and more. This is not a good thing.
8
goodkhat Apr 16, 2026 +5
Minors in el Salvador are being used as hit men? Sounds like a horrible country. They should elect a new president
5
Low-Temperature-6962 Apr 16, 2026 +4
Murder rate fell from 51 to 1.9 per 100k people with Bukele. So while your underlying concerns are valid, what you just said is uninformed.
4
goodkhat Apr 16, 2026 +2
Small country with the highest incarceration rate isn't a flex.. sounds like they can't prevent crime so they just throw everyone in jail... what's the education and poverty rate like i wonder(i know)....
2
Low-Temperature-6962 Apr 16, 2026 +2
I was answering your claim that bukele was responsible for minors being used as hit men. Now the country is in a position that minors are less likely to fall under the influence of gangs and can focus on schoolwork instead.
2
goodkhat Apr 16, 2026
A question isn't a claim.. you still haven't answered the question.. are you saying el Salvador has 12 year old hitmen but it's not Bukes fault? It's year 7, let me know when the school work starts and they get out of the bottom in math science and reading for Latin american rankings. Any time now
0
tagillaslover Apr 16, 2026 +5
El Salvador has gotten significantly safer since he became president. Over the past 9 years (hes been president for 7) theyve had a 98 percent reduction of homicide. A lot of these measures are extreme but they work
5
SsurebreC Apr 16, 2026 +4
No crime in Berlin a while back either. Pyongyang is very safe. There are some tradeoffs to this safety though. His methods were overly harsh to fight a harsh problem. However there's a limit and are these people being convicted with fair trials? Is this justice anymore? How many are political prisoners? How many have been abused and died in these prisons? A 12 year old can do some awful stuff but does the justice system take into account if they're culpable? For instance, if their family is threatened if they don't do this. Heck, if they're not. A lifetime in prison for someone who barely hit puberty? Is this justice? Lots of leaders start well and try to fix a problem. Then they become corrupt and get a different label.
4
← Back to Board