Florida hospital sues to evict a patient who won't leave room 5 months after discharge

Some hospital systems can't kick patients out after insurance stops paying.

Bold of you to assume she has insurance.

Are you joking, or do you think insurance is actually covering more than 3 days of this?

I worked at a hospital years ago and we had a patient in a similar situation. Not that he was refusing to leave, but that the hospital couldn’t discharge him because no-where would take him, he didn’t have family, and was an immigrant (I think originally an H-2B but was wayyyy past his visa status). He had HIV/Aids and a prion disease. They got him stable and on medication and he was mostly fine, but confined to a wheelchair. He didn’t need hospital care, but he couldn’t survive unassisted. His home country, Guatemala, wouldn’t accept him due to his condition. So he just lived at the hospital for a couple of years. They basically fed him and gave him meds and he just watched TV and was an overall menace. Eventually the US state department got involved at the behest of a congressman. They made some deal with Guatemala for them to accept several people to return. And after 3 years in an acure care hospital, he went home. Not sure what happened to him after that.

Could also be someone who at baseline needs assistance usually for mobility. You can be medically stable but unable to care for yourself. If family won’t assume care and they have no resources/insurance for placement and no charity bed can be found (always difficult at the best of times) then you can get into a situation where the hospital is stuck with the patient.

Hospitals absolutely can discharge to a homeless shelter

Exactly. Tallahassee has a generally temperate climate (ignoring the brutal summers) and is routinely named one of the “greenest” cities in America due to all the trees, and as such, has a very large homeless population.

They boot the homeless out without blinking. There are videos of hospitals discharging shoeless homeless patients into snow. Granted, not in Florida, but it happens.

Almost no one gets it when I say, "I would prefer not to." Which is a really useful phrase. 

A good liberal arts education is never wasted!

This made the English major in my cry ☺️

> I wonder what the workers think about this. I couldn't really find anything As someone local, I know many people who work there (including my girlfriend) and they all think it's absolutely ridiculous.

There was a guy who got left at a hospital by an assisted living facility after he needed a procedure and they never came to get him. Guy was such a pain in the ass they'd rather deal with any legal costs thinking he'd probably die before it all got worked out, he was in real bad shape.

Isn't this specifically what trespassing laws are for?

There is no more duty to care after discharge. That’s kind of the point of discharge.

They likely can't change if or how much they're feeding her. If they provide anything other than what they would offer other similarly situated patients, it could be considered a form of illegal eviction, the same as if a landlord cuts off cable/satellite or internet for one resident if they offer it to other residents.

There are a lot of people, homeless or otherwise, who LOVE being in the hospital. For homeless individuals the reason is obvious: a warm bed, three meals a day plus snacks, your own room, your own TV, etc. We always knew that winter brought more in because, well, that’s when they needed a warm bed. But I’ve seen other patients - usually women with borderline personality disorder or similar - who just love the hospital. Will AMA from a SNF or rot away at home until it’s time to go back. Many have homes - sometimes even with family or friends, they just don’t want to be there. In the hospital you get a lot of attention. You have trouble moving and sit in your own pee all day at home (which is painful)? In the hospital we have to clean you up right away. Or you just don’t want to get out of bed to the bathroom? We have to clean up that poop. You are lonely? We have to answer your call light every time. You want attention? Well, there’s infinite ways to force us to stay in the room with inane requests because management will punish us if you report us for not taking good care of you. You want warm food and extra snacks? We got that. You want someone there to take all your nastiness out on? We’re here. You want a private room? Got that most of the time. You want a 1:1 personal servant? Maybe not 1:1, but the 1:4-6 of a hospital is better than the 1:15-30 of a SNF. You want them IV pain meds instead of the Norco you get at home? We got those. You want a doctor who can medicalize every little complaint to keep you there longer? They’re there daily. It’s a paradise for some people. A warm room with multiple personal servants (RN, CNA, MD) and an HDTV is their idea of great.

Agreed. I'm sure I'll never hear what transpired and log this under things I'll forget about by tomorrow.

Honestly I don’t think there is. They gave a laundry list of things they attempted to assist her outpatient. I have had patients that refused to leave despite being given reasonable options. Those options might not be as comfortable, but that doesn’t mean they should be allowed to take up a bed that someone in the ER needs. Some people legitimately go as far as to request a catheter so they don’t have to get up and will soil themselves despite being perfectly capable of getting up. It doesn’t make sense, but it happens sometimes. If the staff isn’t familiar with how to discharge these patients and people keep caving to demands, they will never leave. Clearly someone is providing comfort items for this patient making it favorable to stay. If the patient is genuinely so mentally unwell that they can’t manage to survive on their own outpatient they should be taken to the psych ward, I bet they get better very quickly.

I agree. I've only had one patient in 29 years refuse to leave at discharge and, after making sure the doctor was going to back us up, we had security e***** them out. There was no medical reason they needed to stay.

Idk this happened on our unit and the patient lived in the hospital for 4 YEARS it was ridiculous

The cops don’t give a shit, the hospital is where they drop their problems that they don’t know what to do with.

Seriously. Does she just never leave the room or something? I imagine the hospital would take it over when given an opportunity. Crazy that you can just refuse to leave a hospital and drain public resources but God forbid you miss a rent payment and your ass is gonna be on the curb.

I'm willing to bet the hospital doesn't want to open their doors to a potential malpractice lawsuit by kicking somebody out. Its unlikely, but they could very well sue. Going through the court is likely just a good way to cover everyone's ass.

They can

A, hospitals and doctors do no harm. She obviously needs help, just not the kind that hospital can provide.  B, calling the cops leads to the cop showing up, and the cops aren't "no harm" kinds of people, especially in Florida. Maybe, just maybe, like other evictions, it's a civil matter and the cops have refused to just bust a skull. 

After a certain point, it can be argued that she is now a resident rather than a patient. And as a resident, she has to go through the eviction process. Edit: I don't know why I'm being downvoted. She's been in the room at least 5 months, probably more, and she apparently doesn't have any other residence... so legally, the hospital room could now be considered her only permanent residence. As such, just like if someone stays in a hotel for that long, legally she has to be evicted, she can't just be kicked out for trespassing. Which is what the hospital is doing now.

The core part of this though is that you said that was an ER, so your mom wasn't admitted to the hospital. Once you get admitted there is a duty to care for her. I am working today as a hospitalist, I have 16 patients to care for and will admit 2 more today. On my list currently is 1 person who is recommended to go to a skilled nursing facility but refuses to go there and also doesn't have family to care for them at home and aren't safe for home, 2 people with dementia that family dropped off but refuses to take back and also won't pay for memory care, 2 homeless people that also need a skilled nursing facility but those places won't take homeless people, 1 person recommended for inpatient rehab but insurance refuses to pay for it, 1 person who says they will just go back to drinking if I discharge them and will only accept a alcohol rehab stay but their insurance won't pay for it, and I got someone I just discharged home because they didn't need treatment in the hospital but the family changed their mind that same day that they didn't want to take care of their mom at home. So on my list of 16 patients, 8 of them don't need to be in the hospital and I am kinda stuck with them until the social workers figure something out. This isn't what my skill set should be used for and it takes away from my ability to apply that skillset to the people that need it. Not to mention all the issues with costs, budget deficits of the hospital, legal responsibilities of everyone involved, etc.

When I was diagnosed with late onset diabetes, I couldn't wait to get out but they kept me there for three days. I didn't even have DKA...  I was just staying in a regular room that was actually really nice. Spent three days in that room and my final bill was less than $1000 even though I was uninsured. Hospital social worker got my bill way down with medicate or Medicare even though I am under 50.

My wife was 9 months pregnant, fell, on knees, couldnt move her knees at all or she would get a 10/10 sharp pain and we were discharged like that, im still traumatized. Oh and it was so bad i had to call 911 at home and member from the pregnancy dept whatever its called, had to intervene and hold us for days, it is bizarre how this works

If she wasnt in need of emergent care they did their job. The hospital is not your PCP, they triage, treat immediate needs and either work on admitting a patient or discharging them based on imminent needs. If there aren't needs that would require emergent care the ER is not where your mom should have been. It sounds harsh but otherwise those emergent roles are inundated with non emergent care and potnetially don't have the resources to work on the emergent needs coming through the door.

If your mom is on medicare, I think they're required by medicare guidelines to inform her that if she feels she is being discharged too soon, she can request to stay longer. I know every time my mother was in the hospital, a member of the office staff came by (sometimes multiple times) to let her know, and she (well, I) had to sign a form acknowledging that we were informed of the medicare rules.

I understand it, but it also bugs me - when ERs position is "welp you ain't gonna die, see ya". I understand it - but it does make a person not heard when they have to go home still in pain - to follow up with a pcp.

They did that to my mom after a spinal fusion. They sent f****** HOSPICE care because that's what her insurance covered. She yelled at them a lot, I wrung my hands, and they said she was far from the worst shit they dealt with THAT DAY. What people need and what insurance will pay for are two very different things. She's walking again, but the hospice dude told her the pain will probably be at this level forever. (He had a spinal fusion himself.) He said it was super weird to work with patients like her at first, but now he prefers it because he's been there and done that.

Yes, sometimes the diagnosis is simply "needs daily assistance but doesn't have it"... and yet the patient refuses to admit it.

Robby left on his sabbatical and came back to the patient still living there, he was hoping it was resolved sooner.

Not house someone who doesn't need care because they don't wanna leave, taking up a bed on the floor that someone who actually needs it can't have now.

Pressure his charges to get her out, repeatedly get told they aren't leaving, and keep fighting the higher ups saying she needs to stay there. Eventually, he would find some condition that would be acceptable billing as a money generator through Medicaid.

Stop feeding the patient.

Get pissed and yell at management or the floor attending because he’s had many patients in the ED that could have used that floor bed over the last 5 months, once he hears why his patient has been stuck with an ED bed for 72 hours

It’s going to be $0. No way this person has any assets or income.

Best I can do is $5

Happens in Seattle all the time. Half the people rotting outside should be in facilities or hospitals but we do not have a functional system.

Did they leave them with their chest cavity open after their insurance bounced?

I wonder if it would be cheaper just to give her a few thousand dollars to vacate. That's like only 4 Tylenol charged to insurance. 

I think the "do no harm" part of the Hippocratic oath is stopping the medical staff. I think this will end with being violently dragged out and brought to a mental institute. Could straight up be jail, but.... hm... It is Florida, so probably jail.

i work in a skilled nursing facility and can confirm

That sounds exactly the kind of fake shit a middle-aged nurse would make up lol. My nurse MIL has a cousin who has lived on “unemployment” for 20 years, according to her.