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News & Current Events Apr 9, 2026 at 12:20 PM

France rejects transit fee for passing through strait

Posted by MARTINELECA


France Rejects Transit Fee For Passing Through Strait Of Hormuz
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France Rejects Transit Fee For Passing Through Strait Of Hormuz
France, fee, Strait of Hormuz, reject

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Prostberg 1 day ago +106
While we could have teamed up with the UK to put transit fees on the Channel. /s
106
Koala_eiO 1 day ago +22
That would drastically slow down the commerce of Guernsey parsnips!
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partthethird 1 day ago +12
And Jersey Royal potatoes. You can threaten world war or throw us all into fuel poverty, but I draw the line at jeopardising my Sunday roast
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Gentle_Snail 1 day ago +329
It raises a real question, say non US ships sail through the straight and don’t pay, is Iran going to shoot at them and potentially start a war with a whole other set of countries? 
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ScreenOk6928 1 day ago +130
Iran has already struck commercial ships flagged by 13 different countries since March 1st.
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FordMaverickFan 1 day ago +54
Outside of Listnook the world is logging Iran's actions against other nations. Iran's neighbors hate them and now random countries are trying to negotiate with the IRGC who is agreeing to deals they can't enforce. If the UN wasn't The League of Nations 2.0 they'd be negotiating with Iran for passage. Instead we're barreling to with a full blown US occupation of the strait or the US leaving and letting those who need the strait suffer
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AslanPahar 1 day ago +46
Strait was open and free for everyone before USA and Israel attacked Iran just to fulfill their wet dreams of stealing iranian oil. >US leaving and letting those who need the strait suffer
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klingma 1 day ago +24
It's too bad Iran kept funding groups that actively attacked other shipping lanes & made maritime travel difficult. 
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greatmemereset67 1 day ago +13
Yea, like trump is a c*** and a numpty, but pretending like the IRGC is innocent in all of this is dumb.
13
Direct-Antelope-9583 1 day ago +11
In this exact specific situation with the strait of Hormuz? That is all Trump. If he didn't attack Iran, the strait would be open to all. As simple and clear as that.
11
DoireK 1 day ago +1
They arent and they certainly are not the good guys. But me, a normal person on listnook, could have told you they would have closed the strait as soon as the US attacked them and the US needed to plan for a proper ground invasion if they were going to attack Iran. Yet somehow nobody in the whitehouse thought that. Any country in Iran's position would close the strait as it is their only leverage.
1
LiveToLoveAndLearn 1 day ago +1
Trump started this war to disrupt energy supply to China/Asia and as a side effect to Europe. They are loosing the economic war and can’t accept to fall behind China.
1
Golden_Platinum 1 day ago +4
Irans neighbours pushed for this regime change that failed. It’s neighbours now feel angry the US failed to properly protect them and their infrastructure after launching the war on February. In other words, Irans western backed neighbours already hated Iran. No changes before or after, except Irans making free Yuan now it controls Hormuz.
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catchy_phrase76 1 day ago +11
Many wars have been fought over trade routes. Won't be shocked when this spirals bigger.
11
SnooCauliflowers3235 1 day ago +188
Those ships aren't stupid. if there is an uncertainty they wouldnt even take the risk. nobody wanna pay high insurance premium to begin with 
188
PTTCollin 1 day ago +59
This is why enforcing freedom of navigation is important with ships that are willing to take the risk.
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EmperorChaos 1 day ago +4
And since the US (under Trump isn’t interested in doing that) another country will have to step up to do that.
4
DreamcastJunkie 1 day ago +3
Didn't a Greek ship already do it?
3
erebuxy 1 day ago +2
Trust me. This isn’t going to happen. No company is going to insure this kind of things.
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J3diMind 1 day ago +9
Let‘s be real, how many other countries can even afford a war, let alone one thousands of miles off their coasts. All the while Iran only has to defend it‘s one straight. This is only major powers. Everyone else will have to resort to either bribing or sabotage inside Iran.
9
UnknownHero2 1 day ago +5
Historically there have been many MANY war fought over tribute demands. They don't even need to shoot, there will be wars over this.
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zedascouves1985 1 day ago +6
Iran attacked a Thai ship that tried to cross the strait at the beginning of the war. Three people died. I think this is a line they've already crossed.
6
girlnamedJane 1 day ago +6
Doesnt work like that. All flags have negotiated passage agreements apparently
6
Mayor__Defacto 1 day ago +3
Those other countries have made it clear they’re not willing to take substantive action against Iran in any way.
3
Gentle_Snail 1 day ago +57
They’re not willing to join America and Israels war, its very different if Iran started attacking them unprovoked. 
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Jadow 1 day ago +1
The ships generally are not "Owned" by governments. They are owned by businesses/people who have to weigh up the risks and benefits of every decision. This includes the soaring insurance cost (and premiums should they be deemed a risky customer), risk of damage etc etc. Iran has shown it's not shy of blowing up ships. It's not an idle threat.
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StockCasinoMember 1 day ago +1
Their gamble is that they won’t.
1
pyrotechnicmonkey 1 day ago +1
I mean, typically the ships are registered in bullshit places like Liberia, which have no regulations or safety requirements, and simply charge a small fee. They’re also usually crude by a Hodge podge of international workers, many of whom have essentially zero legal protection. So no. Most countries are not gonna protect a lot of the ships or declare war, if they are hit
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Scr0talGangr3n3 1 day ago +2118
A transit fee for a strait or maritime passage does set something of a dodgy precedent. Previously, the USA has spent quite a lot of effort ensuring freedom of passage. But that was before whacky orange paedo man was their worst president in history.
2118
rizorith 1 day ago +669
It is insane that the US has been performing freedom of navigation exercises to allow the free passage of all ships for decades, and now we have Trump talking about joining Iran in requiring a fee. Also, why do all of Trump's schemes follow the typical American/Italian Mafia crimes? I mean this is literally American talking about a protection racket and despite warring with Iran, Trump is talking about partnering with them on this.
669
RenaisanceReviewer 1 day ago +318
Because he’s not thinking about what is best for everybody will also be best for USA in the long term, it’s what’s best for him personally now. If the USA crumbled after he dies he doesn’t care. Hell I almost think he wants it to
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rizorith 1 day ago +50
Reminds me of a certain Austrian with a funny mustache.
50
RenaisanceReviewer 1 day ago +123
But it doesn’t honestly because Hitler actually wanted Germany to rule the world for the rest of time
123
Fun_Journalist4199 1 day ago +105
At least hitler cared about Germany or something -Morty
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Ray_of_glumshine 1 day ago +25
And I've heard he killed Hitler. That's something at least. Not sure the orange clown would be so helpful.
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Trail_Goat 1 day ago +17
Let's give credit where it's due. Hitler did kill Hitler.
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Mission-Ad28 1 day ago +2
He also killed the guy that killed Hitler so.....
2
rizorith 1 day ago +27
You're right, but when the thousand year reich was ending, and Hitler was living underground, and could hear the shells landing outside, he would rant about how the German people deserved death, deserved this fate, because they failed him. Yes, Germany failed him. Not the other way around. That absolutely jives with Trump's personality.
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temporary311 1 day ago +14
That was before they started losing, though. Then it switched to burn everything down.
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derkrieger 1 day ago +10
Yeah then it was all anger at the Germans for not fighting hard enough
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Similar_Rapier_7596 1 day ago +7
>But it doesn’t honestly because Hitler actually wanted Germany to rule the world for the rest of time Not at the end, he didn't. He cursed Germany and its people because he felt they had let him down. He was just lashing out at anyone and everyone, finding fault with anyone except himself. In that aspect, Trump is the same.
7
Positive_Total_8651 1 day ago +9
There have bee dozens, hundreds of despots and fascists across history. Our obsession with always going back to f****** nazis is part of what got us here. There are so many historical examples, yet *thats* the one we fixated on and now we have WAAAYY too many f****** people desensitized to it.
9
rizorith 1 day ago +21
You're right, but Hitler is the most infamous and well known example in modern times. He also has a lot in common with Trump. I don't really know why people would be desensitized to Hitler but my only real concern with comparing trump to Hitler, is that most people have an idea of what Hitler did, and that it was terrible, but they don't understand how he did it. So they might look at Trump and say the US isn't killing and jailing their citizens by the millions and hasn't invaded all their neighbors. And that's true. We're in something akin to Germany in 1933. He's in power, he's changing laws inside and out with a goal of consolidation, he has control of a separate police force (ice instead of the brown shirts)l, complete with an oath of allegiance to him personally), he denounces everyone who doesn't agree with him as a traitor, there are banners all over dc with his picture on it (and soon all US currency will have his signature), he has control of the courts, he's instilled fear in those who opposed him (try finding a Republican who has opposed him who is still in office. No more Republic monies), he's sacking generals like crazy, oh and I forgot his extra. It's all too familiar. Because once 1934 hits, Hitler quickly consolidated all power within him and the reichststag became feckless (see US Congress). We're so close. It won't happen exactly the same of course but damn is it scary to watch from within. Just wanted to add that now the wars are coming, like Hitler, citizen rights are being violated, like Hitler, voting is restricted... Like Hitler. It didn't happen all in one day in Nazi Germany. But by the time people realized what was happening it was too late. Speak up, you go to jail, a concentration camp, or go missing. Oh and now we suddenly have automatic registration into selective service, the military draft for non Americans. Funny how we can't do that for voting but we can for this. It's exhausting
21
Late-Resolve9871 1 day ago +5
What's this got to do with Sigmund Freud?
5
BasvanS 1 day ago +1
I was thinking [Franz Ferdinand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand_of_Austria) didn’t have that weird of a mustache.
1
aldur1 1 day ago +40
It's insane that the GOP controlled Congress permits this insanity to go in the Whitehouse.
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Pyotrnator 1 day ago +18
As someone who leans solidly towards the "Mitt Romney Republican" political alignment, Republican congressmen (senators and representatives both) have been the most spineless, easily cowed, cowardly public figures in the country for this entire millennium. Pre-Trump, they were scared silly of the labels that might be thrown at them by the press. This drove the Republican base *crazy*, and this led the base to abandon the previously-desired incremental reforms to the immigration system (where the key sticking point was generally just "we want border enforcement fully funded *before* allowing amnesty", and Republican politicians couldn't even manage *that* out of fear of being slammed as racists) in favor of radical changes promised by a madman. And so, with the madman in charge and the Republican base themselves driven mad by their congressmen's previous inaction, the Republican congressmen stopped fearing and being cowed into submission by the press's....uncharitable interpretations of the aforementioned incremental reforms and started fearing and being cowed into submission by the madman. They remain just as spineless, just as cowed as they've long been. The only difference is that they're now cowed by a mad, nativist charlatan rather than an unfriendly press. I prefer when they were cowed by an unfriendly press.
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rizorith 1 day ago +13
Always interesting to hear from an old school Republican. I don't know how you deal with watching your party abandon it's ideals, and in some cases do a complete 180 and justify it. Most of the republicans I know either jumped in with maga, or look the other way and act like this is still the same old Republican party. Either way they all are voting for trump, or at best, not voting at all. Not one has had the balls to vote Democrat to get a madman out of office. I really fear for this country.
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Pyotrnator 1 day ago +12
>I don't know how you deal with watching your party abandon it's ideals Sorrow, lamentations, and eye-rolling are key parts of it. From a political action perspective, my approach is to vote for the Republicans closest to the pre-Trump ideals in primaries (which sometimes just means voting for one of the spineless cowards over the true believers if those are the only options) and, in the general election, vote for the Republican only if they've stood on principle against Trump on many occasions and multiple topics (a rarity), and, if such a Republican isn't available, vote for either the Democrat (if they aren't hostile to my profession in oil and gas) or for a third party or independent candidate (if they are). I also pay for subscriptions to a few publications that I see as keeping more old-school Republican principles and thought alive (which isn't the same as the publications whose entire raison d'etre is "we're former Republicans who dislike Trump"). The most notable of these is *National Review* (even if a few of their writers are a bit too neocon-y for my tastes). It's not my preferred position to be in, but it is what it is.
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Stishovite 1 day ago +8
That feels like a somewhat charitable assessment of their previous spinelessness. My sense is that, in the past, they were unwilling to accept any compromises on the table because they knew that real reform would change the political landscape unpredictably and reduce their near-term political power. And now, they're refusing to hold Trump to account, also because it would be unpredictable and reduce their political power. But the lack of any specific goals or plans, other than near-term control of the levers of power only so liberals cannot have it, is the unifying thread. Same facts as your read, but a different interpretation – I don't think that the press has ever been a huge factor in the Republicans' cosmology, but having to defend actual policy to a bunch of short-termist real and wannabe titans of industry (who donate to their campaigns and form the core of the Republican brand) is something they have been reluctant to engage in since Bill Buckley's time, more or less.
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Pyotrnator 1 day ago +2
>That feels like a somewhat charitable assessment of their previous spinelessness. My sense is that, in the past, they were unwilling to accept any compromises on the table because they knew that real reform would change the political landscape unpredictably and reduce their near-term political power. I'm not sure I agree that they were unwilling to compromise (pre-Tea Party, at least), but I think we're in agreement on "spineless then, spineless now, and I miss the days of Bill Buckley's influence".
2
Stishovite 1 day ago +5
Yeah I agree that tea party was a major turning point in this. But I think that there was low-level right wing sandbagging on some of the immigration stuff, for instance, even in the W era (and they were right to, because the tea party enforced the purity tests they were scared of)…still whatever the cause and starting point, the current depths are astounding and far off scale of whatever came before
5
MetalWorking3915 1 day ago +4
Do we charge for ships to go through the channel? If not maybe France and UK could
4
trebuchetwarmachine 1 day ago +40
Because Trump was raised by the mafia. He also lived in NY when the italian mafia was ousted and the russian mob stepped in. Then he took massive loans from Russian and Saudia Arabian sources and voila, you have a mafia driven, blackmailable POTUS who has been in power TWICE now.
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Yuukiko_ 1 day ago +6
What logic is there even in the US also taking part of the fee
6
big_samosa 1 day ago +4
none, nor do they have any leverage to do so. I'll happily keep gobbling up oil stocks until this inevitably escalates though.
4
the92playboy 1 day ago +3
Trump wants the US to have control of the artic pass. Due to climate change, in the not too distant future, the artic passage will be an option. The value it holds is it will be up to 30% faster option for some high traffic routes. This ties in with his threats to Canada and Greenland sovereignty.
3
fleemfleemfleemfleem 1 day ago +4
>Also, why do all of Trump's schemes follow the typical American/Italian Mafia crimes? Because he's worked with the mob for decades and protection rackets are one of the few things he understands. He used contractors with mob links on his casinos, had ties through Roy Cohn, etc.
4
captainbling 1 day ago +4
Yea funny enough, it opens up Canada to charge for using the North west passage which the U.S. has been strong against. It’s quite the can of worms trump is playing with.
4
-HOSPIK- 1 day ago +3
Spain should ask a fee in gibraltar, turkey should also ask a fee for passing ships, hell even belgium and england should close the north sea and ask a fee
3
DukeAttreides 1 day ago +2
Oh, hey, that's how Latin stopped being the lingua franca
2
Boatster_McBoat 1 day ago +2
Very different. Mafia have some honour
2
ExtruDR 1 day ago +25
Well, our TV version of the mob does. I bet that in reality they are crooks and thieves, some of which being cold-blooded sociopaths.
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h-land 1 day ago +11
Nevertheless, they have *standards.* Can't have organized crime without organization, and any organization at scale requires some sense of standards.
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ExtruDR 1 day ago +2
I see your point. There are at least elements of social stigma and order. I mean, you are still part of a community and you don't want to seem like you are not participating or breaking certain mores (non loving your mom, not being a good Catholic, or whatever).
2
sambull 1 day ago +2
dudes going to take the fee directly.. he likes the crypto coin payment aspect
2
SockPuppet-47 1 day ago +1
The answer is Roy Cohn. Trump might have been the shittyest student at Wharton college but he payed attention to the education he got from friend and mentor Roy Cohn. Ol Roy was quite the character and was well known as a fixer who had deep connections with the NY mob. He famously defended John Gotti for a murder charge that he was 1000% guilty of and got him a reduced sentence. There's a couple of documentaries about Roy. Ones on Netflix and the other is on HBO. [Where's My Roy Cohn](https://youtu.be/lTrHL7Vo_SQ?si=Sadt0K4p1bWbYCn5) [Bully, Coward, Victim: The Story of Roy Cohn](https://youtu.be/oXHj4AYxpvw?si=8XsalUqYF1gkz4zL) Might as well mention the documentary about Trump’s other crazy friend, Roger Stone. Roy introduced them back in the day. He also introduced Trump to another famous player in the scheme, Paul Manafort. They were all great friends. [Get Me Roger Stone ](https://youtu.be/5IPyv4KgTAA?si=P778gWO9kEH4fnNw)
1
glumjonsnow 1 day ago +1
bc he's from queens? he's not just following the typical pattern, this is the only pattern he knows
1
Raychao 1 day ago +1
He has this weird verbal tic thing about 'making a deal'. It's not normal to be discussing global borders and warfare in these simplistic terms of 'deals'. I just find it bizarre more than anything.
1
MourningRIF 1 day ago +45
Why wouldn't every other country that boarders those waters charge a toll as well?
45
beefstake 1 day ago +48
That is literally the plan. The Strait is shared with Oman, the plan includes Oman taking a portion of the toll.
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effectsHD 1 day ago +27
Oman already stated they aren’t imposing a toll
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Alleandros 1 day ago +13
O(range)man is probably also taking a portion.
13
MourningRIF 1 day ago +7
Yeah but that goes in his personal account, just like the funds from the stolen Venezuelan oil
7
h-land 1 day ago +15
I mean, there's an international treaty against it, but with the current US administration, that doesn't mean a whole lot. Maybe Øresundstolden will come back for non-EU members trying to leave the Baltic. I don't think Sweden, Denmark, or Germany are are on very good terms with the countries that might hurt.
15
the_blackfish 1 day ago +4
This is how you wake up Holger Danske
4
trampolinebears 1 day ago +2
> non-EU members trying to leave the Baltic For reference, the non-EU members on the Baltic are: Russia.
2
h-land 1 day ago +2
Let's not name names!
2
jjgill27 1 day ago +6
Cuba would like a word….
6
Dlax8 1 day ago +11
Its not really a new precedent. See the Bosporus and Dardanelles.
11
redmetor 1 day ago +146
Dardanelles and Bosphorus are within the boundaries of a sole sovereign country which have established rules through international agreements made in early 20th century. Not the same as Strait of Hormuz or Horn of Africa
146
Dlax8 1 day ago +19
And how many wars have been fought to control any of these water ways? Suez, Dutch Sound, Hormuz, etc. this is just geopolitics in motion. Just like history always has.
19
zedascouves1985 1 day ago +53
Denmark was paid a lump sum to stop bothering ships in the Sounds. It was the start of freedom of navigation, in 1850. Let's not open this can of worms again.
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redmetor 1 day ago +44
I laid out the case why Dardanelles and Bosphorus are different than others you’re mentioning. Suez, similarly, is part of Egypt indisputably and has rules accordingly.
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XimbalaHu3 1 day ago +29
Suez is also a man made canal with operation and maintenence costs.
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chillinathid 1 day ago +27
Do you not understand the difference between a canal and a naturally navigable waterway outside of any country's borders?
27
Otterfan 1 day ago +11
The Bosphorous and Dardanelles fee is technically not a toll, and all proceeds are supposed to go towards services offered to shipping in the straits (e.g. tugs, sanitation, lighthouses, rescue, etc). The fees bring in about $200 million a year, in comparison to the expected $100 billion+ that Iran would be taking in from Hormuz.
11
SolemnaceProcurement 1 day ago +3
Or Danish Soundtoll.
3
Prize_Compote_207 1 day ago +5
Lmao those are both basically canals, dude. They are within the borders of a single country.
5
PositivelyAcademical 1 day ago +3
That ship sailed back in 1936. Unless we’re going to say UNCLOS overrides the earlier provisions in Montreux Convention?
3
jaquesparblue 1 day ago +22
That's an incorrect comparison. Montreux actual gives Turkey an obligation to provide free passage through territorial waters. With some caveats that it has some measure of control in the form that it can block it for military ships. Majority of Hormuz is not Iran's territorial waters
22
McMacHack 1 day ago +2
I'm sure the end game is that Trump wants part of the tolls to go to his personal account in Qatar
2
vrod92 1 day ago +1
Reminds me of our King Erik of Denmark who did this in 1429 for Øresund, the strait between Denmark and Sweden. Sweden didn’t get any of the toll-money (Oman probably wouldn’t either) and any ship which didn’t pay was sunk. If it really comes to this, I wonder if he would pull the same shit for Venezuela (controlling the income).
1
newbie-curious-guy 1 day ago +517
>Barrot said that such a move would be **illegal**, adding that **Iran must respect maritime law**. It's funny when they still try to act like international laws still matters.
517
woodzopwns 1 day ago +100
The US generally have been very involved in upholding maritime law because it directly affects global trade. Maritime law is far more complied with than something like land dispute law. In fact its very uncommon that a country doesnt comply, and its almost always China who doesnt.
100
PTTCollin 1 day ago +63
Except the current US administration doesn't give a shit about global trade the way all previous US admins since WWII have. Because their collective IQ is approximately room temperature.
63
Mortumee 1 day ago +5
In Celsius or Fahrenheit ?
5
rufiohProbably 1 day ago +14
Celsius, otherwise they’d think it’s a compliment
14
earlandir 1 day ago +27
I thought the US has been consistently blowing up boats in international waters for many months. I can't imagine that is very acceptable under maritime law.
27
spankpaddle 1 day ago +1
Literally ignoring about 100 years of maritime history for the events of the last 5 months. The message you replied to also used loose language but of course someone on listnook needs to make a comment attempting to invalidate someone's actual normal take.
1
iloveFjords 1 day ago +26
You mean like the blockade of Venezuela and Cuba? After decades of sanctions and constant attacks and threats (also illegal) Iran can have the straight. Once you stop following the rules it is rich to ask everyone else to do so.
26
unfortunatebag 1 day ago +6
I'm sorry, but when did any country ever "follow the rules"? Certainly the G8 never did when it was inconvenient for them.
6
clera_echo 1 day ago +3
You mean the same US who hasn’t even ratified UNCLOS, is upholding global maritime law because it’s the right thing to do, instead of the fact that the US used to benefit from global trade, so they are incentivized to keep trade flow? And now evil China always violates maritime law, because they want to sabotage global trade…???
3
woodzopwns 1 day ago +12
No, China doesnt attack or disrupt global trade. Maritime law is quite wide and not only related to trade. The US "used" to help uphold global trade, not recently. Not dogging on China as evil either, they just breach maritime law a lot in the news is all. Almost always just related to fishing rights in SE Asia.
12
Ultra_Metal 1 day ago +71
International law only matters when democracies are defending themselves against aggression from tyrannical regimes and terrorists. Democracies are attacked viciously for defending themselves while tyrannical regimes can break every law on the books and nobody cares. This is why international law is dead.
71
Aurorion 1 day ago -1
Come on, I think that's a bit extreme. The US may have carried out some terrorist acts, such as bombing schools and killing hundreds of children while its leader ranted about destroying a whole civilization, but let's not call the entire country terrorists yet. And even though their leader is an idiot, it's not quite a tyrannical regime.
-1
gaflar 1 day ago +3
The man just threatened genocide via tweet. People are being rounded up on the streets. If you don't think America has dissolved into tyranny yet, then what would it actually take?
3
DEEP_HURTING 1 day ago +5
*You're a crook, Captain Hook. Judge, won't you throw the book at the pirate!*
5
Beautiful-Check7836 1 day ago +1
It does not matter and that is an opportunity. The geneva conventions do not matter either, Iran should be reminded of that.
1
MadT3acher 1 day ago +269
Not paying was absolutely normal 2 months ago. Weirdly enough some countries triggered an international crisis by bombing yet another country in the middle east. France is right to protest against the shit the USA have brought upon the world.
269
krneki534 1 day ago +109
Not paying is still absolutely normal
109
FiftyLoudCats 1 day ago +25
I think a lot of people read about the 10 point plan presented by Iranian state media as what is being agreed to. It included giving Iran complete control over the straight and allowing Iran to enrich uranium without any international oversight. Most would assume these are non-starters but Listnook has run wild as if they are truths.
25
Latitude57 1 day ago +43
Exactly. Iran is a terrorist regime. Why would the world fund a terrorist regime so that their boats don't get blown up in international waters ?
43
steven4869 1 day ago +25
Even before all this ordeal, IRGC was already added to the EU terrorist list.
25
MrKuub 1 day ago +9
You grossly underestimate the world’s governments addiction for oil.
9
FYoCouchEddie 1 day ago +2
That’s exactly why…so their ships don’t get blown up in international waters.
2
Clean_Mix_5571 1 day ago +1
Europe would anyways welcome that terrorist regime within their borders
1
krneki534 1 day ago +3
it was probably a jihadist supporter RP as journalist asking stupid questions.
3
mytthewstew 1 day ago +12
Trump likes negotiations without all the parties involved. And then he seems surprised when they fall apart.
12
not_having_fun 1 day ago +26
You know it's serious when France resorts to condemnations and harsh words.
26
Diurnalnugget 1 day ago +41
I mean honestly what are they going to do about it. Being right next to the strait makes it real easy for Iran to stop ships. As long as they give a couple key trading partners a pass then the only way to stop them is doing a US which France cant and won’t do. They could avoid using the strait which would hurt but is probably manageable since they aren’t quite as dependent on it as many others, but the transit fee can’t be rejected it will still exist and people will pay it.
41
islandsimian 1 day ago +25
Does that give the Spain/UK/Morocco rights to put tolls on the entrance to the Mediterranean sea?
25
Diurnalnugget 1 day ago +17
Rights are irrelevant. “Can you stop them” is the only relevant question now. Can the UK, Spain, and Morocco be stopped? International pressure will likely work much better on them than on Iran, I don’t know about Morocco but their key trading partners and populations will be unhappy about it and have the political power to do something about it. They also probably care more about being bombed and are able to hide a lot less of their military infrastructure near civilians. Therefore it’s a lot easier to stop those three (maybe not Morocco I don’t know their situation) due to them having a lot lower tolerance to all kinds of pressure.
17
klingma 1 day ago +1
Spain and Morocco? Yes, pretty easily. 
1
Prince_Ire 1 day ago +1
If they want to and can enforce it
1
SolemnaceProcurement 1 day ago +29
They could sit just outside iranian waters and demand a toll of their own to offset the one they have to pay to iran and threaten to nuke anyone who tries to stop them. And iran could do f*** all to stop them. Sure straits are easier to control, but if you got fleet big enough and nukes who can stop you from doing it anywhere. If iran can say pay up of we blow you up so can anyone on the planet. Heck US/China have enough ships to do that most everywhere. Radio any ship within range of their AS missiles demanding a safe passage fee or get missiled. I mean if iran wants to play that game... Why not get everyone to do it. Let's kill sea trade.
29
Diurnalnugget 1 day ago +12
Then iran just blocks the strait again and international pressure forces France to back down. Their key trading partners are a lot more likely to stop trading with them than Irans trading partners are. People like sea trade, the reason Iran gets away with it is because realistically no one is willing to endure the international issues that truly just killing Iran would cause. Iran is perfectly happy to play a game of chicken because they simply don’t care if the car hits them.
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glumjonsnow 1 day ago +2
i left you a snarky comment above but please disregard bc i see what you're actually saying and agree with you. iran's gamble is that the nuclear nations won't use nukes and it's paying off. the question is what the "great powers" do now bc other rogue states will absolutely follow the playbook of playing chicken. i mean, just look at what the israelis have endured for three years wrt public opinion and condemnation - technically they're just enforcing their rights under international law but most people don't have the stomach for it and believe that weak powers can assert themselves without too much interference from the great powers because it's just too unfair otherwise. it's a weird world...the pax americana is underwritten by america's use of nukes but there's no chance (even under trump) that america uses them. so what are france's options? after spending three years bashing the israelis for their actions in gaza, it's not like they're going to kill 40,000 people for a shipping lane. nor can they afford to pay a penalty on shipping. i dunno, everyone was celebrating trump's dumb ceasefire and gloating but what the europeans and arabs do now is a real, fateful question. good answer, it's terrifying stuff tbh
2
Diurnalnugget 1 day ago +1
I agree with most of what you’ve said but I might be able to offer a bit of a silver lining. Most states even if they went rogue wouldn’t be able to play chicken like Iran can. Irans advantage is based mostly on being right next to the strait of Hormuz which transported a tremendous amount of the world’s oil and natural gas. This allows them to much more easily attack ships passing through and shut down the trade. Most states do not have a strait of Hormuz to attack. Let’s say the strait did not exist, Iran can’t play chicken because the US could have simply bombed them, destroyed a very large amount of military infrastructure and navy, killed leaders, said “we won” and left. Barely a thing Iran could do about it because the US in our chicken game doesn’t even have a car coming at them anymore. They could attack neighbors but it won’t have anywhere near the same global impact that Hormuz has. This means if a state like say Nigeria went rouge, if it was pushed to war, then someone could bomb Nigeria, set them back a decade or two, and leave them in economic and military ruin unable to do much for a while. Iran is not alone in its capacity to play chicken but it’s not very common. For France if the tolls stick around I’m not entirely sure what their plan is considering their economic conditions are teetering a bit (their current plan is don’t let the tolls stick around in the first place). My guess is since they don’t particularly super heavily depend on Hormuz they will try to find elsewhere to buy what they need. But no matter what it’s going to hurt if the tolls stick around. Arabs I don’t know Im not too informed on how they like to do things in these cases. They will be opposed to Iran in the future In general for sure, and they have less restraint than European states, but it’s hard for me to say what they will do about tolls other than most likely not wage a direct military war since even the US is having a hard time pulling that off and Iran has shown they can blow up their stuff. The next decade or so will be anything but boring is the only truly certain thing that’s going to happen.
1
glumjonsnow 1 day ago +3
if all this comes down to geography and not, say, alliances and treaties and mutual understanding....then anyone should be allowed to invade iran, kill all their people, and take the strait. i mean, since you're advocating a return to the time of barbarian warlords waging total war in order to take over patches of profitable land, i'm sure you would be fine with that. the rest of us are trying to live in the 21st century but good luck in the 10th
3
Diurnalnugget 1 day ago +2
You seem to have mistook my argument about the physical reality of the situation and realistic outcomes for an argument on philosophy. I am not arguing anything in terms of what’s right or wrong, what should and should not be done. I am arguing that France can’t/wont do anything about this problem they’re rejecting.
2
glumjonsnow 1 day ago +2
no, you're totally right and i absolutely did miss your point. but i didn't want to delete this like a p****. (though tbh my point still stands - it feels like a real retreat from the post-ww2 status quo)
2
Diurnalnugget 1 day ago +1
You’re all good man I’ve misinterpreted things plenty of times before. You are correct it’s a retreat from back then. While it seems to be true a lot of international laws and customs turned out to be a loose series of gentlemen’s agreements i would say it’s also true it was better when we followed those.
1
Mayor__Defacto 1 day ago +3
Nothing, because they clearly don’t want to assist the US in forcing the Iranians to back off of it lol.
3
Doctor_Saved 1 day ago +3
Don't countries have navies to make sure this doesn't happen?
3
Dark_World_Blues 1 day ago +18
Well, will they do a thing about it?
18
ChristianintheUK 1 day ago +12
Why don't the 2 countries who started this conflict (mess) do something about it? What a joke.
12
king_escobar 1 day ago +2
What should France do if those two countries fail to open the strait? Should France just roll over and pay the tolls? Should they let Iran’s new policies disrupt their energy markets? Even if this situation is not their fault, it is actually still their problem economically and domestically.
2
vinsmokesanji3 1 day ago +9
It’s funny because any fee that the US imposes will simply go to Trump’s bank accounts in the middle east like some of his other sketchy income.
9
Tigereyesxx 1 day ago +2
The first good thing they’ve done in the current situation, charges amount to Extortion….
2
BignickdiggerXL 1 day ago +22
Im sure iran cares what france thinks
22
IntelArtiGen 1 day ago +43
Well they recently released french hostages a few days ago so I guess they might care a bit. But not a lot because France won't do anything to open the strait, except from sending messages like this.
43
Koala_eiO 1 day ago +8
Why would France do anything to open the strait? USA and Israel closed it, it's their problem to solve, spending their men / material / blood / reputation.
8
IntelArtiGen 1 day ago +8
I think for the last oil / gas crisis the government paid $50-100b: https://www.lesechos.fr/economie-france/budget-fiscalite/crise-energetique-la-protection-des-francais-a-coute-50-milliards-deuros-1981398 It's not about helping them, it's about helping us / Europe. Obviously it's much easier said than done. But we could help for the ceasefire. If more countries monitor the situation, things could return to normal, the cost of restarting the war would be higher (bc we would be involved), prices can fall, and billions can be used for something else. Either that or the price might go up again and these billions will make Trump very happy because he's an oil & gas exporter to Europe and France: https://www.connaissancedesenergies.org/questions-et-reponses-energies/dou-vient-le-petrole-brut-importe-en-france . If we don't like Trump, best thing is to not give him billions. [US fossil fuel firms could collect an additional $60bn this year from Iran war](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/mar/17/democrats-windfall-tax-fossil-fuel-companies-iran-war) This transit fee isn't just a transit fee, they say it'll slow down a lot the traffic in the strait. And it's still in theory because now the strait is still "closed" (1 tanker in the last 24h).
8
Paradoxeuh 1 day ago +5
Nobody can open the strait by force, not even Murica. It's far too easy to explode a slow boat full of gaz/oil. Even with boots on the ground. Only Muricans can believe in this farce. In Europe, we tend to have basic education and some common sense so we don't bother backing up stupid plans.
5
IntelArtiGen 1 day ago +3
It's not about doing it by force obviously. As you say it's very easy to blow up boats with drones. But by doing so, you are declaring war, and while it is easy to blow up ships, it is not easy to declare war. Iran is doing things in a specific way I think, talking about mines and directing boats to go in their waters. Obviously it's like a mafia, but it allows for "creative diplomatic solutions" to reopen the strait. What if China sent a military vessel to sail through the strait for example? It's easy to blow up that ship, but would they? I really don't think China would do it though. But it's possible to negotiate with Iran, and ultimately boats will pass only if they're sure it's safe, and the best way to show it's safe would be to puts military vessels there and say "it's safe because if they attack us, they declare war, and they probably won't do that". Many countries want to reopen the strait and might be willing to do something about it. But as you say it can't be done in a stupid way like Trump proposed. Countries need to talk, and it's complicated, and it might often seem stupid for us but it's how it can be done. These boats might also help to ensure the ceasefire is observed.
3
Overall-Bison4889 1 day ago +1
I mean we could drop some bombs in Tehran. There has to be a limit on how many millions the regime is willing to sacrifice.  But Europeans no longer have any balls. 
1
Masterclass_jacob 1 day ago +17
About as much as they care about what the US thinks, I'd say. Given how long that fraud of a ceasefire lasted
17
Mammoth_Opposite_647 1 day ago +4
France have a long history with Iran . Geopolitics are still a thing you know .
4
zombiekoalas 1 day ago +14
Lol when I asked how Europe felt about paying transit costs because of trump i was told they wouldn't care!  Right companies and countries are just fine passing away millions that they didn't have to for 0 gain.
14
Ordinary_Knee_9419 1 day ago +24
And what more, happy with that transit fee directly funding terrorism and anti western propaganda 
24
Jaded-Currency-5680 1 day ago +21
Iran's excuse to implement transit fee is to replace the reparations of war by the US and Israel the cost of the war is literally shifted onto us, all the consumers of the whole world f*** the transit fee, ask the US to pay reparations using their tax payer money, they need to be responsible for the president they elected
21
tonsofplants 1 day ago +15
US is not paying anything, the current administration wants to dismantle the current global trade order.
15
FiftyLoudCats 1 day ago +10
The amount of people taking Irans 10 point propaganda piece as what’s going to happen is way too high.
10
crookedsky 1 day ago +6
As seriously as President Trump, who agreed to it as a basis for the ceasefire?
6
FiftyLoudCats 1 day ago +2
We do not know what he agreed to, that had not been made public. He has explicitly stated the one that Iran sent out was not true. Based on the confusion of Lebanon I don’t think either party has a solid understanding of the ceasefire.
2
Street_Anon 1 day ago +13
and Iran isn't going to even get that
13
Swimming-School-7960 1 day ago +3
it's already shifted onto you, you've been to a gas station the last 2 weeks?
3
beefstake 1 day ago +5
This is Iran saying that the rest of the world needs to force the reparations on the US. The bit here people don't seem to understand is how trivial it is for Iran to keep the straight closed for as long as it wants, years if necessary, even under sustained bombardment from US and Israel. So right now the world has a choice between 3 ugly options: 1. Sue for peace and pay a toll 2. Sue for peace and in place of a toll force the US and Israel to pay reparations 3. Ground invasion to occupy Iran and remove their ability to control the strait. Iran has the leverage here. Until huge pipeline infrastructure that would take 5-10 years to build can create an alternative route to the Red Sea they have the global economy by the balls.
5
EmperorChaos 1 day ago +5
Option 2 won’t happen, unless countries are willing to invade America or Israel (both nuclear armed countries) neither will pay reparations to Iran. So it’s down to #1 or #3 and my money is on #3 happening eventually.
5
zippyfan 1 day ago +1
Yes fighting Angry mountain people on their home turf has always turned out well for the invading country right? Yemen? Afghanistan? Vietnam? What are those?
1
Mayor__Defacto 1 day ago +3
I’ve been saying this for weeks, and Europeans said ‘but it’s immoral’. There’s only 3 choices. Iran has no incentive to do #2, because the US and Israel are the only ones that will actually take any action against them. Why *not* charge a toll to France? They won’t do anything but send a strongly worded letter! It’s like the Yes, Minister joke about the diplomatic options. France can’t cut off aid because they don’t give them any, a letter makes them look silly, a declaration of war is judged harshly. There’s nothing they can do.
3
FiftyLoudCats 1 day ago +1
Don’t disagree, but while 20% of the world’s oil flows through the straight, the US uses almost none of it as we source about 90% of our oil domestically. Pressure will be much higher on Asian countries, less so on Europe and little on US. Won’t be good for US elections though, gas will definitely go up.
1
GhostCriss 1 day ago +3
Domestically meaning Canada and Mexico? US refineries are optimized for heavy oil and most of it comes from imports. USA extract light oil that gets exported to countries that have refineries optimized for it. Anyway, oil quantity is less important for USA. If enough countries will be pissed off and agree to change the currency used for trading oil then USA's economy will be fucked.
3
FiftyLoudCats 1 day ago +4
No I meant domestically, although it’s just 60%. The 90% I was probably getting confused with the percentage refined in US, thanks for correcting. Canada does export most of the rest. https://www.afpm.org/newsroom/blog/how-much-oil-does-united-states-import-and-why In any case my point was we don’t really use the oil that flows through Hormuz and that other countries will be impacted much more quickly and severely. Not sure about the likelihood of the currency swit CB, thanks for bringing that up.
4
GhostCriss 1 day ago +2
Ok. So in the refining process heavy and light oil are used, light oil consumption will be lower if there is no heavy oil to mix it with. Sure, USA produces heavy oil also (20% of total) but it is not enough to cover the demand, not even 60% of total. In simpler term, USA extraction isn't able to cover 60% of the demand without imports. It is a global market, prices will rise for everyone. Let's not talk about what is likely or not. Your president wanted to annex Canada and Greenland, threatened a country with acts considered war crimes, abducted the head of state of another country and wanted to send troops to Mexico. Not taking into account the morons from the rest of the world. So if tomorrow nuclear WW3 starts I wouldn't be that surprised.
2
GeshtiannaSG 1 day ago +2
It doesn’t matter if you don’t use the oil, your prices will still go up.
2
bgirard 1 day ago +5
France should pay Iran and impose tariffs on the USA proportional to what they pay… make ~~Mexico~~ USA pay for it.
5
dankfor20 1 day ago +23
France isn’t dumb enough to think tariffs aren’t just a tax on their own people most likely though.
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bgirard 1 day ago +7
of course not. It's a joke.
7
Taz_Dingo_maaan 1 day ago +1
Another American that doesn't understand how tariffs work.
1
gechakra 1 day ago +4
Make US and Israel pay for it
4
Milnoc 1 day ago +2
France has nukes. And they've said before they'll use them if necessary even as a preventative measure.
2
unyielding_rock 1 day ago +2
I think the transit fee should only apply to US goods. F*** them and their fucked up administration. They reap what they sow.
2
HereticLaserHaggis 1 day ago +1
France, you're not playing the game. If freedom of navigation is gone, you share a transit route for the channel with Britain.
1
Specialist-Garbage94 1 day ago +8
No one wants this game. Free trade is the best thing that’s ever happened to the world
8
EmperorChaos 1 day ago +2
Iran wants this, and Trump would love to be able to charge transit fees.
2
Winter_Criticism_236 1 day ago +1
If a tariff was agreed, whats next? Moluca straits, Gibraltar med entrance, English channel, there is no end to it, this it cannot be agreed too..
1
EmmaFrostBroken 1 day ago +1
It's almost like it was a bad idea for every country to make itself entirely dependent on international trade and supply chains they don't control.
1
vaidhy 1 day ago +1
Like Panama Canal and Suez canal too?
1
Neobullseye1 1 day ago -2
Yeah, nobody likes it one bit. Unfortunately, there's not much anyone can do about it. International law is wholly irrelevant, since Iran can and will just say "F*** all of you", and I can honestly barely even blame them at this point. Trying to force your way through without paying is not a reasonable option considering all it takes to wreck or even sink a ship is a single well-aimed drone launched from anywhere in the country. Military force is not an option since, again, said drones can be launched from anywhere in the country, and there is no way in hell anyone can occupy all of Iran. So we can whine, complain and cry all we want, but in the end our options are limited to paying up or finding an alternative route. EDIT: To my friends the downvoters, might I inquire where exactly you disagree with what I said? Is there something France themselves or any other country can do about the current situation other than the given options? Or was it simply the little bit about how "I can honestly barely even blame Iran at this point" even though those were specifically about them no longer giving a shit about international law?
-2
movack 1 day ago +7
You're right that all laws are really only worth the weight of the paper it's written on without enforcement. I think people are just downvoting you because they don't like the idea how easy it is that government like Iran can hold the world hostage. I wouldn't say military isn't an option. Things just hasn't reach the point of overcoming the weak conviction of western governments. But I also recognize that fighting in the middle east is a bit of circus since western armies are handicapped by rules of engagement while islamist groups are not.
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EmmaFrostBroken 1 day ago +1
Well I agree with your assessment but I guess folks didn't like reading the reality of it.
1
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