Let me fix that headline.
Protest over fuel prices causes pumps to run dry as blame on high prices due to war in middle east directed at government.
71
No-Value13422 hr ago
+21
When we're talking farmers and truckers that use diesel, They pay a 45% excise duty tax (currently being discounted). Then, a 23% VST. Then, a 9.8% carbon tax. That's ~75% of fuel cost in taxes that go straight to the government.
21
TheEndsOfInvention2221 hr ago
+26
Farmers already get c**** diesel. And if anyone is registered for VAT then they don't pay that on fuel.
The money that goes straight to the government gets spent on infrastructure, hospitals, schools (farming subsadies), police/army/coast guard etc
26
Darkone53921 hr ago
-13
>The money that goes straight to the government gets spent on infrastructure, hospitals, schools (farming subsadies), police/army/coast guard etc
The money goes to a bunch of places but doesn't help when farmers can't afford to farm because it's doubled in price.
-13
TheEndsOfInvention2220 hr ago
+8
Farmers have not been able to afford to farm for a long time
8
No-Value13420 hr ago
+2
Ok? That makes it worse
2
danielandtrent13 hr ago
+2
The government gives them a shit ton so that they can keep farming
2
TraditionalAppeal2310 hr ago
+3
This is just not true. Excise tax and carbon tax is a fixed amount per litre and not a percentage. All the taxes together total to around 45% at current prices, not including the latest tax cut.
the 23% VAT is refundable if the diesel is used for commercial purposes, so hauliers only pay around 22%.
The farmers can buy green diesel for off-road vehicles, which has no VAT or excise on it, so pay about 9%.
It's only people who are in regular cars that pay 45%.
The farmers and hauliers are getting direct cash payments off the government after the protest, with the rest of us getting a token tax cut, and thats really what they were looking for, they just wanted cash from the government to cover the cost of their fuel.
3
scarrxp18 hr ago
+2
Governments are broke and can’t afford to offset what is happening in Iran. There needs to be a different solution to higher gas prices.
2
No_Conversation_932523 hr ago
+36
Those protests are just using people to push a different agenda.
https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-fuel-protests-far-right-influence-hijack-7009832-Apr2026/
36
ails_bales23 hr ago
+7
Exactly this. Spread division.
7
JDNM22 hr ago
-8
Yeah, we can’t have people protesting against governments that don’t listen to them and continually and systematically act against them. That would be far right. 😒
-8
ails_bales22 hr ago
+5
You're a privileged white male living in one of the least corrupt, happiest and wealthiest countries in the world. Cop on to yourself
5
JDNM17 hr ago
-2
I don’t live in Ireland. What has ethnicity and gender got to do with anything?
Anyway, good effort of trying to derail my point about governments in Europe actively ignoring their citizens year after year after year, and your attempt of trying to de-legitimise people who call out poor government, but you didn’t quite nail it.
-2
YoghurtSea433922 hr ago
+3
Just because the far right are bandwagoning doesnt meant there aren't legitimate protestors with a legitimate issue.
3
Tacti_Kel_Nuke20 hr ago
-2
They might have some legitime reason to protest, you don't have to put everything in the same bag
-2
Apprehensive-Log363820 hr ago
+11
Europe will take the wrong lessons here.
The lesson should be that they need to become energy independent. It makes no sense to tax and regulate away your own industry so that you are then forced to import from countries who do not follow those same regulations.
People can blame the US, but it seems crazy to me to be reliant on theocratic countries in the Middle East who have been a defacto religious civil war since 632AD.
11
Mehhish10 hr ago
+3
Also, on a country that keeps invading its neighbors and wants to restore its "empire".
3
winterwonderworm1 day ago
+53
I understand being upset, but what is protesting gonna do?
53
Animated_Astronaut1 day ago
+29
It's complicated. The government could put a fuel price cap in place. They could temporarily slash the VAT and tax. Many would say the protestors are targeting the wrong places and people. There are a lot of voices shouting and it's difficult to hear and digest them all.
Edit: a lot of people correcting me and arguing with me and I don't have a solution or answer nor was I presenting one. Just highlighting that it's a complex thing. I don't fully understand it.
29
unencrypted-enigma1 day ago
+46
Funny thing is: Germany did that in 2022 and the oil companies just raised their prices accordingly. So the lower tax just raised the profits.
Tax reduction would need to be a long term thing not just a short term desperate thing.
46
Theratchetnclank21 hr ago
+20
Happened in the UK too. We got a 5p per litre tax reduction and the petrol stations kept the prices the same and took the profit.
20
Main-Economist283917 hr ago
+4
Then it's an oligopoly. Break up the companies.
4
Appealing_Apathy1 day ago
+11
Parts of Canada are doing it right now, and it is just lining pockets.
11
ExtremeFlourStacking23 hr ago
+3
Which parts have actively removed tax?
3
Appealing_Apathy18 hr ago
+1
Ontario has. I live in Ottawa-Gatineau so I see how much gas stations on the Ontario side are pocketing the tax relief. The price per litre difference does not always equal the tax difference, I've even seen it cheaper on the Quebec side multiple times over the past year.
1
Dingcock23 hr ago
+5
Parts of Canada are talking about it, but have any actually waived or reduced fuel taxes?
5
shteve9923 hr ago
+4
Same thing happened with the housing industry. UK government introduced help to buy, and house prices went up by the help to buy amount.
4
thaoxid23 hr ago
+3
85-100% of it was passed through to the consumer depending on type of fuel and location. Yes it raised profits a bit but it also helped the consumer.
3
Prasiatko23 hr ago
+13
Wouldn't a price cup just mean the run dry quicker? Would need to be combined with rationing.
13
TalkersCZ23 hr ago
+16
The issue is, that there is not enough oil in the world now.
You HAVE TO limit the consumption of oil, otherwise you run out of oil. Thats why prices are increasing.
16
baachbass22 hr ago
+13
Yeah it turns out the organisers of the protests are farmers with multiple convictions between them for animal cruelty, tax evasion among others. They're not the brightest sparks.
Public sentiment turned against them when they started blocking ambulances from getting to call outs.
13
TalkersCZ21 hr ago
+2
I can understand people being upset about it, but its quite simple for understanding.
Prices being high should push people to use less oil. If this is not happening, the prices will need to continue to grow.
Thats the simple math.
2
firejuggler7423 hr ago
+7
\>The government could put a fuel price cap in place.
Well if you want fuel shortages, that's definitely the way to do it.
7
_ram_ok21 hr ago
+1
You cannot do that without essentially robbing from another tax to give relief. And also getting fined heavily by the EU.
1
sicksquid7520 hr ago
+1
If the Irish government slashed vat on fuel it would have to do so on everything. It would cost the country 4 to 5 billion in taxes a year.
Thats what I learned anyway
1
No-Value13422 hr ago
+3
What else are people who have been priced out of their livelihoods gonna do? Just ask nicely?
3
Madman_Sean1 day ago
Two things:
1. Oil companies bought the oil earlier, and they charge the costumers much higher prices than they bought it for. Government could temporarily limit prices and restrict export of fuel because companies have oil in storage for weeks or even months
2. Governent charges a lot of taxes on fuel. They can give up on some of it so they prevent sudden price spikes
0
zedazeni23 hr ago
+26
In a supply crisis like this the last thing that the government needs to be doing is making petrol affordable. If supply is extremely limited (and the USA just announced that it’s blockading the Straight of Hormuz), then the (Irish) government should massively increase the taxes on petrol and/or ration it to discourage people from buying it, but offset this by mandating that all public transit is free (or extremely reduced fares) until a longterm solution is reached.
What’s going to happen if everyone buys petrol as if there isn’t a crisis? There will be no petrol for anyone. Ambulances, police cars, fire trucks, garbage trucks…They won’t have petrol.
26
shteve9923 hr ago
+12
Yeah, but I heard there might be a fuel shortage so I have to go and queue to buy as much fuel as I can get, even though I have enough to last me weeks. And look, everyone else is doing the same and now there's a fuel shortage, I was right...
12
zedazeni23 hr ago
+5
Exactly! Glad you get it! Next you better stock up on bread, milk, eggs, and toilet paper! Go now and buy as much as you can!
5
mentaljobbymonster19 hr ago
+3
Covid prepared me for this. Out the way. I'M PANICKING!!!!!!
3
Legitimate-Leg-472023 hr ago
+4
Also can't help but wonder if this just kicks the can down the road. Rich countries subsidize their citizens to continue using oil at the rates they did previously, meanwhile poorer countries who desperately need even a small amount of oil to survive, won't be able to afford any.
4
zedazeni23 hr ago
+6
You’re exactly right, and there is a fairly easy solution—renewable energy and widespread EV adoption. We could’ve been working on this for around a decade now to the point where this war wouldn’t be an existential threat and would instead be a political headache. But at least we have the “freedom” that driving internal combustion engine vehicles brings. Charging our cars would’ve been too much of a hassle, so now we get to deal with our entire society collapsing.
6
thatsacrackeryouknow20 hr ago
+2
> Government could temporarily limit prices and restrict export of fuel
What law in Ireland allows price limited?
How much refined petrolum does Ireland export, versus the amount it imports?
2
SinkHoleDeMayo15 hr ago
+1
Plenty of fuel suppliers have declared force majeure, meaning futures contracts are voided and the buyers need to find new sources, typically at much higher prices.
1
Golda_M22 hr ago
+5
Some broad political context (and conjecture).
In Irish politics, the hard right and hard left had long been contained within a single nebulous "republican" movement. During The Troubles, this was all very focused on the Provisional IRA in Northern Ireland.
After the peace (97) Sinne Fein (basically the PIRA party) became purely political (no militant) and started gaining traction in the south.
On paper, SF is a hard left wing party. Their motto is A United and Socialist Ireland. However, if you attended an event... it was always very clear that there is a distinct hard right element at the activist level. Also at the representative level. The top politicians always managed this tensiom somehow.
But... Over the last 10-15 years two things happen. (1) SF becomes very big and powerful, challenging the traditional right-left parties.# (2) After Brexit is adopted by Protestant unionists, Sinne Fein does a 180 on the EU (they had been anti-eu) %and kind of joins the general european left ideogically.
(#) These two traditional parties are the right and left of "the old IRA" and "old Sinne Fein." History repeats.
So... Right wing populism, previously contained within SF goes feral. They have a long history, but no party, no organization and no leadership. Even now, Sinne Fein didn't know whether to support and lead these protests or condemn and oppose them.
This nebulous energy has flared up as chaotic protest movement several times in the last few years. All weird and politically homeless protests have a lot of right wing vibes... which keeps all the other parties hating them.
Somehow this hasn't coalesced into any kind of structured or organized party or movement. Very unpredictable.
5
caiaphas820 hr ago
You know it’s Sinn Féin right? Not sinne fein
0
burundilapp22 hr ago
+4
Removing the tax on fuel to lower costs just moves the costs elsewhere, it doesn’t fix anything and actually makes it more difficult to fund renewables which will ultimately reduce and eventually end our reliance on fossil fuels.
The protests make no sense unless they’re about increasing subsidies for farmers elsewhere to offset costs or removing regulation to offset costs.
4
viridiandatura21 hr ago
+2
Why are they protesting against India though?
2
[deleted]1 day ago
-12
[deleted]
-12
Cyclist0071 day ago
+17
50km to get a litre of milk? Jeez, just buy a cow.
17
RNGezzus1 day ago
+4
They could milk a Dingo, as far as I'm concerned.
4
nicethingslover23 hr ago
+1
If the Dingo ate ya baby, you don't really need the milk!
1
ails_bales23 hr ago
+2
I just milk my goats but drive 50km to work
2
dysphoric-foresight23 hr ago
+2
It’s also a very rural country for the most part with notoriously bad weather. I *could* cycle 35km to work in a rain-slick but only at the expense of the time I spend working a second job because it’s also one of the most expensive countries in Europe to live in.
If you are in a city in a well paid job then that’s fine but outside of that there’s almost no public transport or cycling infrastructure.
I don’t support the strikes but the guys protesting are largely hauliers and farmers who don’t really have a viable alternative to diesel.
That said, there’s no fuel shortage in the country, the protesters, in all their wisdom, are blockading the ports, refineries and petrol stations because they don’t want the increased costs to harm their profits.
2
maddprof23 hr ago
+4
OP is trying to tell people to ride 2-4 hours to go get groceries. Each way. Talk about unrealistic expectations for senior citizens and those with children, plus the majority of people don't own bicycle equipment capable of carrying/towing sufficient cargo.
57 Comments