ListNook

Substantial_Milk8170 6 days ago +2263

Given Greece's legendary history with tax evasion, this is basically a declaration of war against every landlord and contractor in the country.

2263

chortogrower 6 days ago +432

How will this be enforced though? If a landlord receives 800 euros in cash every month, how will this new initiative stop that from happening?

432

Davaca55 6 days ago +414

Not an expert, but my understanding is that they really don’t care about the payment itself. Instead it’s supposed to make it more difficult to hide irregularities when auditing taxes. It’s less about the literal cash and more about what you write down as cash expenses.

414

_Darren 6 days ago +69

Maybe not landlords, but hotel, car rental places. You name it. 10x easier to convict than before. Get someone in the tax office to phone and ask for quotes for car rentals and ask for cash discounts. If they accept cash, turn up and hand it over and fine them when they accept it. Then you have evidence for a warrant to investigate all their financial affairs. You could phone landlords advertising rentals and ask if they'll take cash.

69

Gangbangjoe 5 days ago -1

Super illegal in Europe. Entrapment is a law hazard that never ends good for the law enforcers doing it. This ain't to catch a predator. It's literally in article 6 of human rights and European law.

-1

seanflyon 5 days ago +58

That's not entrapment, if that is the way the business was already operating. It is only entrapment if you entice a business that would otherwise not accept cash payments to accept cash payments. If you offered to pay extra if they accept cash that could be entrapment, but if you are offering to pay less that is not pressuring them into committing the crime.

58

Testiclesinvicegrip 5 days ago +31

I think you need to look up what entrapment means lol

31

biosc1 5 days ago +5

Are you a cop? Because if you are, you have to tell me!

5

_Darren 5 days ago +13

Ok maybe pushing them to accept cash above 500 is entrapment but turning up with cash and seeing if they take isnt entrapment.

13

bullairbull 5 days ago +21

By your logic, every undercover operation is entrapment.

21

TopClass31 4 days ago +1

The Greeks aren’t that organised lol

1

SDrone1 6 days ago +61

Payments in cash over 500€ were already illegal it's just that sometimes people broke up a single transaction into multiple invoices to avoid the limit this legislation is supposed to close that loophole. Also paying rent in cash has already been made illegal but the implementation of the law has been pushed back a year or so already until the new reporting system comes online.

61

Strong-Finish5346 6 days ago +6

Easy workaround: split up the other side of the transaction as well. Instead of multiple payments for one item, multiple payments for multiple parts of the same item. So instead of paying for 5 tonnes of X in 100 euro installments, you pay for one tonne of X for 100 euros each over 5 separate transactions. For indivisible items, you could divide them temporally via a rent to own scheme. So if you want to buy a widget for 501 euros from me, I would "rent" it to you for 100 euros per month (each month paid in advance as separate transactions since each month of use is a separate item) and then agree to sell it to you for one euro once all "rent" payments have been made.

6

Ivanow 6 days ago +16

> Easy workaround: split up the other side of the transaction as well. Instead of multiple payments for one item, multiple payments for multiple parts of the same item. So instead of paying for 5 tonnes of X in 100 euro installments, you pay for one tonne of X for 100 euros each over 5 separate transactions. "Structuring, also known as smurfing in banking jargon, is the practice of executing financial transactions such as making bank deposits in a specific pattern, calculated to avoid triggering financial institutions to file reports required by law." In every jurisdiction that I know of, structuring payments for purpose of hiding reportable transaction is punished higher than transaction alone - You get slapped with not only penalty for original transaction, but also separate charge of reporting evasion on top of it.

16

Strong-Finish5346 5 days ago +4

Obviously not in Greece, hence the new law targeting a particular form of structuring.

4

vetixas 6 days ago +2

Seems like a lot of hassle for business to try to avoid this. Most legit business wouldn’t do such thing. Plus don’t know the full extent of the law, but I assume lawmakers aren’t dumb, so they make sure to close such loopholes.

2

Strong-Finish5346 5 days ago +4

>Most legit business wouldn’t do such thing. Do you think that this law is written for legit businesses?

4

stillaras 6 days ago +1

Or the company that you pay will make a single deposit of that cash they receive themshelfs, so they can 'show' a corresponding deposit of that invoice.

1

Catprog 6 days ago +157

They will change to 400 every fortnight instead.

157

unematti 6 days ago +55

I think that's called structuring? Or something similar. Financial authorities already look out for that

55

Catprog 6 days ago +21

But does that mean a 400 a month rent payment is actually a 800 every 2 months payment? What makes monthly the default instead of fortnightly?

21

Rizeren 6 days ago +14

Changing payment method in the same moment the new law is made is enough evidence that you want to avoid regulations.

14

JBinero 6 days ago

Surely avoiding regulations is not a crime? I am sure there are legal instruments to deal with it, but I would imagine something more sophisticated.

0

seanflyon 5 days ago +4

Structuring bank payments in order to avoid regulation is a crime in America and I would expect it is also a crime in Europe. Lots of things are clearly not a crime if they do not involve a bank but become a crime if a bank is involved.

4

FairGeneral8804 5 days ago +3

If you shoot a crossbow and someone appears from behind a tree and get hit, it's an accident. If you time the f****** thing very precisely and close your eyes real hard just before releasing the bolt, it's not an accident.

3

Good_Restaurant15 6 days ago +14

Customs/standards/traditions, and some compromise sprinkled therein (calendar drift~)

14

DissatisfiedByCRS 6 days ago +3

Kent Hovind knows all about that

3

Stamts 6 days ago +17

You cannot receive payment for rental in cash. It has to be a bank deposit. The amount deposited has to match the amount agreed on the contract lease

17

Obrix1 6 days ago +8

Make a law saying that the local council can, but is not obligated to, compulsory purchase a property for 100% of the reported yield over a ten year period. Pro rated if necessary. Sure you’d see bookkeeping standards reached in record time.

8

Nurkanurka 6 days ago +6

Makes me think of Folkrace. A ordinary mans racing category we have here in Sweden and the nordics. In order to keep costs down, after a race anyone can register to buy someone elses car for a fixed price. In Sweden it's like 800 dollars. If more than one person wants to buy the car, it's a l****** who gets to buy it. If you don't agree to sell the car you lose your racing licence. It's a pretty genious way to keep costs down in the sport. If anyone was to spend to much or make a car to nice they'll lsoe the car. :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkrace

6

Ivanow 6 days ago +8

> It's a pretty genious way to keep costs down in the sport. I'm pretty sure that this system borrows from Danish system of Øresundstolden - it was a tax on all merchant ships passing through Sound Strait between Baltic and North Seas. It was paid as percentage of declared value of goods, with a caveat that Danes reserved the right to purchase any goods at their declared value, to prevent undervaluation by merchants looking to save money on toll fee...

8

Leading-Ability-7317 6 days ago +1

Horse racing has “claiming races” as well for a similar purpose.

1

SinisterCheese 6 days ago +4

Banks have for the longest time had the requirement to know their clients, and ask of the sources of major cash deposits. Also they need to make payments themselves, and the bodies that take those payments need to use the banks also. Like sure... The contractor or landlord can take in the cash, but at some point someone is going to start asking questions like: "*Please... Show us the receits and accounting from past 5 years*". Like sure you can keep adding layers and layers of schemes and workarounds, but that will involve more and more people; and at somepoint one of the links is going to fail; and then the shit projectile fecal matter will collide with the propellor.

4

northyj0e 6 days ago +3

The cash never needs to see the bank at all, though.

3

SinisterCheese 6 days ago +5

Sure... If you just want to get a dragon's hoard of cash. But if you are a contractor buying supplies, you need to have the receits. And from that it can be counted that "*Well... You sure are buying a lot with cash, yet your declared income from cash payments do not match. So where is this cash coming from?*". The suppliers are also going to have to explain to their accountants and tax officials why they got so many 499,95 € sales (or whatever). The landlord has to explain to their bank when they pay the mortgages, loans and credits where the cash is coming from. Sure you can spread those over many banks and ensure the minimum payments are below that, but if you want to declare any of those or the assets you got with them in your taxes, you'll need to show accounting. My father is an accountant... I know the bullshit that can be pulled. They have helped many of their new clients out from the shit swamp they got themselves into due to ignorance or foolishness, so that they can get their books inorder and operations proper (Many of them are foreigners immigrated here, who's right to stay here can depend on getting the books correct). But my father is very clear about all these schemes and such, that they can not be operated for a long time, few weeks or a month or two at best. The longer it goes on the harder it becomes to explain. The more people it involves, the more chances there are that it'll fail. At some point... you are going to need to go to a bank for whatever reason, and the bank will ask where the cash is coming from.

5

go_go_tindero 6 days ago +35

How will a law against theft be enforced though? If some one steals my car, how will this new law stop that from happening ?

35

Armisael 6 days ago +40

Generally people are willing to report to the police that their car has been stolen, which starts the investigation. Crimes where no party present has any reason to report are much harder to detect and thus enforce.

40

JMoon33 6 days ago +12

If a landlord owns a building but there's no sign of rent payments on his accounts you know it's been paid cash.

12

JohnHwagi 6 days ago +2

Or maybe like half his tenants pay cash, then it’s hard to track, and you can write off certain months as being unpaid before a tenant leaves, pretend you kicked them out. There is massive tax fraud from small business owners in the U.S. even with substantially more sophisticated investigations and less of a cash culture.

2

pathanb 6 days ago +3

In Greece when you have a rental agreement you have to take the tenant to court to have a chance to write off rent. Otherwise it's considered paid (and is fully taxed) by default.

3

kharathos 6 days ago +2

The standard way to do things is a part of the payment above the table, the rest cash

2

r2k-in-the-vortex 6 days ago +2

The problem is they will be limited in spending that cash. You cant for example go buy a new phone with that money, because its over limit. You need the money in your bank account, which means taxes and so on.

2

Photojunkie2000 6 days ago +1

2 payments of 400

1

pathanb 6 days ago +2

From October, all rent will have to be paid through bank transfer anyway.

2

DaNuker2 6 days ago +1

Landlords that charge let’s say 800 a month will now charge 400 every two weeks instead

1

Penis-Dance 5 days ago +1

€400 every 1st and 15th.

1

joshuads 5 days ago +2

> If a landlord receives 800 euros in cash every month Where is that money coming from though or going to? You have to be keeping that money completely out of a banking system to avoid deposit and withdrawal flags. If you are working a regular job you have to take that money out of an account. And the landlord would have to spend it all in smaller cash chunks too.

2

duckdodgers4 3 days ago +1

Everything should be bank transactions, not cash.

1

hamstringstring 6 days ago +8

It's actually fine, you can still pay cash, but only if you put Rebar on the roof.

8

Father_Dowling 6 days ago +2

That's the Hellenic version of the Mexican roof dog.

2

Vystril 6 days ago +4

I wonder if they'll have a loophole so that cash payments to politicians don't qualify for the ban.

4

readywater 6 days ago +2

They’ll finally have to build the top floors to those building. RIP.

2

Shynii_ 6 days ago +259

Okay but i mean.. how ? It's literally just ppl swapping pieces of paper

259

Realistic_Swan_6801 6 days ago +206

Enforcement is on the business side, you can easily tell if a business is not complying by going through their records. It’s to prevent widespread tax fraud primarily by businesses.

206

tomic24 6 days ago +14

If you are going to enforce it by going thrugh the records then you can already detect the tax fraud the same way?

14

Realistic_Swan_6801 6 days ago +20

This is also increasing the fines, it’s not just about record retention. It sets the fine at double the value of every individual transaction,

20

mahsab 6 days ago +4

No? The point is that cash transactions are untraceable.

4

Quirky-Marsupial-420 6 days ago +17

That will be two payments of 300 euros sir.

17

bbbberlin 5 days ago +9

Presumably it’s also an offence to structure the payments to evade controls though. People also try to do that when laundering money to come under reporting thresholds - it’s still an offence and people still get caught, it’s called “structuring.”

9

funky_duck 5 days ago +7

Intentionally avoiding the law is also against the law. In this case it is called 'structuring' and is also illegal.

7

AnomalyNexus 5 days ago +1

> you can easily tell if a business is not complying by going through their records. Would those records you're going through be the ones for the taxman or the real ones?

1

Realistic_Swan_6801 5 days ago +4

Yes wow the amazing concept of cooked books, I’m sure forensic accountants who’s entire job is detecting tax fraud have never thought of that and are super easily fooled.

4

[deleted] 5 days ago +1

[deleted]

1

Realistic_Swan_6801 5 days ago +2

Greek businesses seem to regularly advertise large cash discounts, so it seems they aren’t used to doing it subtly.

2

dirty_cuban 6 days ago +58

It’s not meant for two random people exchanging money. It’s aimed at businesses who get paid in cash and then don’t report it to the tax office.

58

JoJack82 6 days ago +15

But if you’re already not reporting it to the tax office then won’t you just continue to take them not report it.

15

FusciaHatBobble 6 days ago +47

If you deposit large sums of cash into bank accounts or pay for large business expenses without being able to show where your money came from, then accountants will be able to show that you have unreported income and can fine you accordingly.

47

Defiant-Peace-493 6 days ago +12

And then the guy who you offered a d******* for a cash payment to, arrests / fines you.

12

dirty_cuban 6 days ago +4

Unless you spend it in cash, you'll need to deposit it in a bank account and that will create a record accessible to the tax office

4

zscan 5 days ago +3

You need cash in the company to pay for expenses. So it's rarely total tax evasion. Before, it might have been like this: you have some work on your house done and the bill is 5000. The contractor offers to make it 4500 if the customer agrees to cash payment. He then puts 2500 in the bank and creates an official bill for that 2500, while keeping the remaining 2000 for himself. The customer saved the sales tax, the contractor saved on income tax. Both are happy. Now the new situation: the customer has to make a bank transfer. The contractor can say: hey, let me officially bill this with 2500 instead of the 5000 it actually costs, you then give me another 2000 in cash and save yourself 500 that way. Same result in both cases, but now the customer knows what the contractor actually puts in his books. Very different proposition. It's not "I'm saving 500 that way, a small crime of 10%", it becomes "we are doing 2500 in tax evasion together, 50% actually, and he gets 2000, while I only get 500. Oh, and btw. - did I overpay 2000?" Also, now it becomes suspicious, when you want to deposit larger sums of money to your bank account. This is already the case for sums larger than 10,000€, at least in Germany. You have to show your bank where that money came from (for example the sales contract for a car). With cash payments over 500€ banned, that evidence becomes much harder to provide.

3

albug3344 6 days ago +5

Audits on suspected unregistered landlords

5

talldata 6 days ago +3

When a business goes to deposit cash they will have to prove where it came from even more.

3

ledow 4 days ago +1

"How did this transaction you claim take place? Because it's not in any of your bank accounts. Oh, you took cash? For an amount not permitted by law? Whoops."

1

rickroy37 6 days ago +23

If they do that there'd better be a ban on card fees over €500 to go with it.

23

Tal_Star 6 days ago +14

Sorry the best we can do is higher card fees due to increased usage.

14

NotPaidByTrump 6 days ago +291

Greece should **ban crypto** payments above €500 too

291

TheWhomItConcerns 6 days ago +90

Crypto should be outright banned everywhere.

90

DickelPick69 6 days ago +61

Cash is more anonymous than crypto

61

SpaceEngineering 6 days ago +33

But it does not scale as effortlessly.

33

DickelPick69 6 days ago +5

Yes, digital payments are superior to cash. Good insight

5

Omaha_Poker 6 days ago +3

As someone who was falsely accused of money laundering and locked out of banking for 3 months whilst abroad, I couldn't even by a flight back to the UK to sort the mess out. Without crypto I would have been completely screwed! There are so many arguments for ensuring that crypto can continue to support those who can't get traditional bank accounts.

3

stochastyczny 6 days ago -8

A never-before-seen level of bootlicking

-8

TheWhomItConcerns 6 days ago +24

Lol the president of the US, the most powerful politician in the world, literally has his own crypto coin, many in the crypto industry regularly communicate with him and express support for him, and he's exceedingly fond of crypto. The crypto scene is absolutely infested and inundated with multi-billion dollar corporations and institutional investors/scammers/grifters. If you think that crypto is a way for you to escape existing power structures then I've got a bridge to sell you.

24

Jonathanwennstroem 5 days ago +1

huh?

1

Personal-Smile-3322 4 days ago +1

Why, nobody uses crypto for payments in Greece, why bother laundering money through crypto when you can just exchange 10-20k cash hand to hand.

1

utl94_nordviking 6 days ago +422

Nothing done by Greece in the field of economics should be inspiring to anyone.

422

_Darren 6 days ago +232

It's their economic position that makes them do this. They're forcing payments to have an audit trail above 500 euros to avoid under declared income to be auditable. If you Google this, the first result is a Facebook page where tourists are asking if the cash d******* they've been offered by their hotel applies to this too. Clearly a widespread culture of cash payments. Cash isn't the issue, it's people using it to keep money off books and not paying tax.

232

spud8385 6 days ago +58

Booked a hire car in Crete this summer. They immediately emailed and offered a d******* if I rock up and pay cash, it's over €500 I better check with them lol

58

lazycroc 6 days ago +54

When they say cash d******* it means that they will just get the money under the table which is already illegal

54

Realistic_Swan_6801 6 days ago +19

Yes and this is to Discourage that and increase fines.

19

ProposalKey5174 6 days ago +15

Doing that is simply assisting with tax evasion. No other reason to give those discounts.

15

_Darren 6 days ago +12

True, but what's currently illegal is someone taking cash and not declaring it. That's far harder to prove. It's much easier to prove someone took 501 Euros of cash payment. Right now tax evasion is caught by auditing. The auditing workload is 10x easier to enforce for the tax authorities. Hell they can send someone undercover and it they're offered a cash d*******, easy conviction. Cash discounts aren't illegal at the moment.

12

thiney49 6 days ago +4

>It's much easier to prove someone took 501 Euros of cash payment. Forgive me, but how? If they're already not reporting the cash payment, why would they start doing it now?

4

imminatural 6 days ago +7

Offering the cash d******* is evidence of the crime which is easier to prove.

7

thiney49 6 days ago +3

That's still not proof though, just a reason to investigate. Wouldn't they have that already?

3

imminatural 6 days ago +5

You approach the business, get offered a cash d******* as an undercover agent, and convict them based on offering the cash amount about 500. You then audit all their *personal* accounts on probable cause. Right now, they keep no paper records and just say that their income is what they report. You cannot get proof they are cooking the books because they don't keep electronic books.

5

thiney49 6 days ago +3

Ah that makes sense. The crime is now happening at the point of the transaction, not at whatever tax day they have in Greece, so it's easier to identify and prove.

3

__Yakovlev__ 6 days ago +2

I was also taught that if I had to go to a medical professional, that I should always offer to pay cash because it would be cheaper.

2

jpiro 6 days ago +1

Went to Greece a few years ago and the guy we rented our place from on Naxos gave us $500 off if we paid cash. Couple of trips to the ATM and it was a done deal.

1

Personal-Smile-3322 4 days ago +1

Exactly, offering d******* for cash payments is insanely common in Greece (usually the remove the VAT tax), some people are getting their entire salary of 1000+ euro in cash every month. But its also important to know that a lot of Greeks are not in a financial position to pay 24% VAT on everything and then get taxed on their income 25-40%. People pay with cash to avoid taxes because they are absurdly high, then taxes get raised even more in response resulting in even more evasion. If the current government wanted to solve the problem they could, but it requires more complex solutions than just "Hur Hur no big cash payments". Unfortunately the current government is lazy, incompetent and corrupt and prefer the easy solution of creating a surveillance state instead of actually finding a smart solution.

1

ladafum 6 days ago +98

You clearly haven’t been following Greece’s economic development since the financial crisis. They’ve managed surprisingly well.

98

Arturo90Canada 6 days ago +36

Shocking they really have , turn a lot of it around. They’re still in rough shape but in a good trajectory

36

userousnameous 6 days ago +13

Corruption and bribes is really tough to weed out. I think the above will help.

13

Arturo90Canada 6 days ago +3

That + many generations of a culture that didn’t get a piece of the modern world + just Europe man, they’re marching to the beat of a different drum …. As the Costa Ricans would say “Pura Vida”

3

Plugpin 6 days ago +36

I dunno, they recovered quite well from where they were a decade ago.

36

RigelXVI 6 days ago +31

Maybe you should do some research instead of parroting old opinions

31

Xyzzics 6 days ago +6

By many metrics Greece is fairing financially better than much of Western Europe. Greece GDP growing at 2.1%, European average is about half that. They have some of the most aggressive debt to gdp reduction in the western world and had a 4.8% surplus in 2025 and their credit rating, while, low has been regraded to investment grade. Greek equity index grew by like 45% last year. They are making an amazing recovery by basically all metrics and are doing the right things with most of their major indicators trending very positively.

6

haritos89 6 days ago +4

Good thing this is not in the field of economics but in the field of common sense when every a****** wants to evade paying taxes

4

SS_wypipo 6 days ago +22

Nothing to do with tax evasion, everything to do with control and corruption. The biggest tax evaders are the rich.

22

ledow 4 days ago +2

If it's corruption they're trying to hide, they just put in a law that means all their corrupt transactions now have to be digitally recorded. Kinda seems like that's NOT the reason. In fact, the exact opposite.

2

skippermk 3 days ago +1

I don't believe he meant the rich do literal tax evasion in the traditional sense. More like storing money offshore, or in stocks, bonds, moving from one company to another, spending company money so it's in debt rather than in profit (buy property or vehicles as company expenses), etc.

1

_Connor 6 days ago +24

This is the first step in tracking how everyone spends their money and where.

24

crow047 6 days ago +17

Me, an Argentinian “interesting”

17

Pharnox-32 6 days ago +9

Oh no worries, we ve been through capital controls and endless queues to get a few bucks already. This is about corruption to increase the money trail

9

crow047 6 days ago +6

Welcome to the club I guess? Haha, our current president is a lunatic, but the other alternative was a drug addict that wanted nothing more than print more money (one of the mother lodes of most of your Argentinian problems) so yeah, we are currently in recession but bests a hyperinflation (again) I guess?

6

Pharnox-32 6 days ago +5

Oh we are club buddies for a while, I remember protesting back in 2010s and watching videos from your "pot protests" while the media were fearmongering that we ll default like Argentina. Look at us now, still poor, one generation completely spent and ruled by lunatics 🤝

5

GnaeusQuintus 6 days ago +19

How on earth do you enforce this without massive privacy invasion?

19

krazygreekguy 6 days ago +19

Why do you think the world is forcing digital IDs and “age verification”? Next come social credit scores

19

TheNesquick 5 days ago +5

You don’t really enforce it. You just make it a law to drastically reduce businesses doing it. Many laws are not really enforced.

5

aphroditex 5 days ago +4

This is old news. Greece fiscalizes receipts. In (ideally) real time, businesses report transactions to the national tax authority as well as means of payment. (This is fairly common across Europe, with varying degrees of reporting speed and required equipment.) Every business is required to accept electronic payments, ideally as cards but instant transfers also can be used. It’s helped reduce the informal sector of the economy by half.

4

ninjakos 5 days ago +2

Oh my sweet summer child.

2

kiomansu 6 days ago +15

Good time to be a bank in Greece. They're getting a percentage of all that action.

15

Alex_Sinios 6 days ago +4

Seriously if you gather all the profitable measures they have taken and the stuff they can get away with the past 20 years it's disgusting to say the least.

4

YourLoveLife 6 days ago +91

Yea f*** that. Sounds dystopian as f***.

91

AnArgonianSpellsword 6 days ago +40

Unfortunately Greece has issues with tax avoidance and corruption, im guessing this is made to prevent under the table payments for services being unreported and underreported to their tax man.

40

__Yakovlev__ 6 days ago +7

Unfortunately the biggest corruption comes from their government. So this is really only a band aid fix that will do more to piss off younger generations that are already struggling the most financially while their corrupt officials will continue to never face the consequences for their actions.

7

KathyJaneway 6 days ago +1

And no one would be following this law lol.

1

t_25_t 6 days ago

Maybe the government should be finding more effective ways of taxation. It’s always the little guy who ends up shouldering the bulk of the nations taxes whilst the top end of town pays f*** all.

0

get_homebrewed 6 days ago +2

I mean, it's not like they haven't. Yet both the little guy and the bigger guy have been dodging taxes all the same

2

on_ 6 days ago +17

That’s already been in Spain for years now. 1000€.

17

El-Grande- 6 days ago +8

Yup… had to buy something worth 3k EUR in Spain. They just did 3 transactions of 1k each.. LOL

8

krazygreekguy 6 days ago +7

🎯. That’s why these governments are pushing digital IDs and centralized currency. Social credit scores are the endgame

7

sukull 6 days ago +14

Upload your passport to use any electronics and you can't buy anything without electronics. Think of the children BTW. China starting to look chill when even Europe going full dystopia.

14

rahvan 6 days ago +16

I get that tax evasion is a problem. But this solution is worse than the problem.

16

Personal-Smile-3322 4 days ago +2

Yeah but i can bet no one will follow this law and the law will slowly stop being enforced (like many others), this is another one of our current governments PR moves to show how hard they are fighting corruption and tax evasion without actually doing anything.

2

Ok_Eagle_3079 6 days ago +7

So it is no longer a legal tender

7

ledow 4 days ago +1

Again, for the 10 millionth time, "That's not what legal tender means".

1

No_General_2824 6 days ago +11

The Germans will be fuming.

11

Asleep_Leek9361 6 days ago +10

The billionaires want to eliminate cash.

10

frugaleringenieur 6 days ago +27

Dystopian! At the same time $500 / 500€ is worth nothing anymore with inflation out of control. This is intentional cash ban to control the public, nothing else.

27

J7mbo 6 days ago +68

When first moving to Germany I always was annoyed about old people paying in cash at supermarkets and slowing everyone down while they counted it out, rather than just paying by credit card. But after considering, I think a world where we can ONLY pay by credit card for everything is a step towards dystopia - I don’t want to hand so much control to these companies who can then enshittify everything even more. So actually, I’m glad we can still pay cash and maybe I should do it more.

68

Protean_Protein 6 days ago

Do debit cards not count?

0

LovelyDayHere 5 days ago +1

Your debit card can be blocked at point of sale by bank/payment processor. Cash doesn't have that deficit.

1

Protean_Protein 5 days ago +1

I’m not debating that. You’re responding to a question I didn’t ask with my obviously rhetorical question.

1

Realistic_Swan_6801 6 days ago +18

Because of widespread tax fraud.

18

siliconsoul_ 6 days ago +13

Look, I know quite a few people in certain fields of work, where cash payments are rampant. These people are not ashamed to defraud the public twice. First by not paying proper taxes/social security and later on by getting rent that's not sufficient to live and getting supported by the tax payers money. Coincidentally, these are the people screaming the loudest. Funny how that works, isn't it?

13

frugaleringenieur 6 days ago

The goal is still to track you for every Euro spent so they are in control. The real fraud happens on government spending while imposing way too much tax for subpar services or infrastructure.

0

TheWhomItConcerns 6 days ago +14

This just seems like a weak rationalisation for tax evasion.

14

Nenebear123 6 days ago +10

Once you give your freedoms away, you're not getting them back. Imagine someone being able to track every single purchase you've made, including food. What if they deem that you're eating too much meat? Or if you have a wrong opinion? They can cut you off from being able to use any payments.

10

Dinkelberh 6 days ago +5

Well the good news is Greece is a democracy. If the taxes are too high or their allocation is mismanaged, the greek people collectivley have the power to change that. This just ensures individual people dont get to cheat the system and place the whole burden on better people.

5

Realistic_Swan_6801 6 days ago +4

Cash only businesses almost universally are committing tax fraud. It’s so much more inconvenient and risky to be cash only that it makes no sense to do it unless your committing large scale tax fraud.

4

sheky 6 days ago +1

500€ in Greece is nothing to sneeze at.

1

TopClass31 6 days ago +5

Greeks both in power and the general public have been cooking the books for centuries lol The problem now is that the public aren’t used to these new laws (they have many that are useless) The ones in government will still find a way to dodge their own responsibilities to pay their correct taxes etc ! Nothing changes then. Rinse and repeat until there’s a revolution

5

Greek_Bodybuilder995 6 days ago +5

When I am telling my family and friends that Germany is a lot freer than Greece these days, people either call me a traitor, a germanophile, or don't believe me. AI traffic cameras, 9-12 months military service for males for €8.62 per month, attempts to ban anonymity on the internet, stricter gun laws and self-defence laws than the UK, and now a ban on cash transactions above €500. *Einigkeit, Freiheit und Recht* till the Sun sets.

5

BaronessVonKush 6 days ago +4

every time I think I've heard the dumbest shit in my life ... humanity comes through with something even dumber!. Einstein was right, human stupidity truly is limitless.

4

Own-Dependent-4601 6 days ago +3

every government keeps saying this is about tax evasion and then normal people immediately hear “cool so every purchase is getting tracked forever now..........

3

saraseitor 6 days ago +2

so if I have to pay $1500 I can simply make three individual and of course completely unrelated payments of $500

2

PM_ME_UR_CREDDITCARD 5 days ago +3

I know this is hard for listnookors to understand, but the forensic accountants that track tax fraud aren't that stupid.

3

saraseitor 5 days ago +1

haha I get it but in my country stuff like this is common practice and the government does nothing. For instance there was a limit for purchases in supermarkets with cash, what they did was simply split the bill. Just an example

1

MercantileReptile 6 days ago +2

Remember when we got rid of the €500 note? And financial transparency blossomed, illegal activity was crippled and tax evasion stopped? Politicians and financial Suits **might** even have purely positive ambitions here. Combating tax fraud is reasonable, in and of itself. Attacking or limiting cash as principle means of transaction is not.

2

NastyStreetRat 6 days ago +3

Let's see if one day they invent a system to find out how a politician who earns 100k euros a month lives in a 3M euro house, or perhaps to try to find out why a roundabout that is budgeted at half a million euros ends up costing 3 million.

3

Translunarien 6 days ago +4

You can't ban payments that do not happen officially. So many payments are done without receipt or paper trail either way

4

Realistic_Swan_6801 6 days ago +3

And those are all illegal generally, this doubles the fine for that. So they can aggressively pursue tax dodgers

3

desmonea 6 days ago +1

"Here friend, take these multiple separate 500€ payments."

1

burning_iceman 6 days ago +7

From the article: > Importantly, authorities will calculate the threshold based on the total value of the transaction, rather than on individual receipts or partial payments. If you do that it would still be illegal.

7

StrangerExistingFact 6 days ago -10

Only greece would get idea of banning legal tender. Going from being cashless to refusing cash

-10

3dmontdant3s 6 days ago +9

You're quite wrong. Italy has had limits on cash payments since 1991, yoyoing around and at the moments it's 5.000 euros. Other states with limits are France, Spain, Portugal, Belgium and the EU will introduce a 10.000 euros limit in 2027

9

StrangerExistingFact 6 days ago +3

10k is slightly different then 500

3

3dmontdant3s 6 days ago +2

It is, however what cash payments do you have to make on a daily basis that are over 500 euros? And let's be clear: having that much cash is an indication (not proof) that there's tax evasion going on Edit: and money laundering

2

vivianhtlee 6 days ago +1

Taiwan government has interesting solution: The government provide lucky draw to encourage people request invoice. The more invoices submitted to app, the higher chance to get prize.

1

TheDuckFarm 5 days ago +1

That can be a really nice dinner in some restaurants.

1

Big_Increase3289 5 days ago +1

That’s already the case for years.

1

Pinkninja11 5 days ago +1

I'm very curious to know how that will get enforced tbh. I can already see the split payments in 499€ as well 😃

1

progressiveAsliMard 5 days ago +1

Need this in india As well.

1

GazelleIll495 3 days ago +1

I'm in Greece at the moment. Looking at the state of the road we're staying on I can understand trying to get more tax Euros in the coffers

1

Greece moves to ban cash payments above €500

💬 Send a Message

175 Comments