Part of the reason likely is the utter collapse of EV support in the USA. It's likely that a fair amount of this plant's output was expected to be sold down south, and without that market it's probable that the EV plant wouldn't be even close to profitable
118
MrKyleOwns6 days ago
+34
Plus the uncertainty for how expensive the cars might be to import down South
34
jesusonice6 days ago
+21
I'm the market. Id love an electric odyssey
21
Bodefosho6 days ago
+10
I love my Civic hybrid but would trade it in tomorrow for an electric version.
10
alxrenaud6 days ago
+17
I soooo want an electric "hot hatch".. that is not 80k+
Like an EV BRZ type of car, would not need a huge battery and be fun as hell to drive.
17
1200____12006 days ago
+5
it would be a lot heavier than an ICE BRZ
5
alxrenaud6 days ago
+2
Well, of course, but it would be smaller/lighter than a Ioniq5 N for example, ora Tesla or whatever.
2
Xyleksoll3 days ago
+1
I have one, it's called EX30 Twin. Guess what, they are not going to sell it in the US past my26.
1
7ipptoe6 days ago
-1
Hot hatches are a stupid concept with modern EVs, the hp:weight ratio is well into the the EV favor if they choose to offer a model that’s AWD.
-1
alxrenaud6 days ago
+2
Not sure what you mean is "stupid" here. Just saying all the EVs that I know so far are either large/high or have fairly weak engines.
We don't have a small 2 door (hatch or not) with 300+ HP.
2
SteamSteamLG5 days ago
+2
Honda has mismanaged the switch to EV more than anyone else. They partnered with GM, killed that partnership, started doing EVs on their own, started working on an EV with Sony, ended that, cancelled all of the EVs they were working on, lost $15 billion and delayed their next gen models until 2030, including the hybrid Odyssey. Toyota will probably have a 400 mile Sienna EV by then.
2
SallyKimballBrown6 days ago
+8
Not to mention the uncertainty around upcoming CUSMA negotiations where auto industry provisions make up a huge proportion of the agreement.
8
Longhag6 days ago
+3
That and the fact Honda uses GM's EV platform (i.e. the Equinox) for their EV. With that demand reducing in the US they are at risk of losing their whole platform until they start producing their own.
3
CaptPants1 day ago
+1
I wouldn't call it "collapse" as much as I would call it "sabotage" by a hostile government beholden to oil companies. They'll do everything to demonize any transition away from burning that shit for everything.
1
LearingCenterAlumni2 days ago
Nevermind the fact that the liberals are about to flood Canada with CCP subsidised cars.
0
teutonicbro1 day ago
+1
Awesome!
I looked at EVs about a year ago and the cheapest new one I could find was like $45 k all in.
I want a small hatchback, I can get an ICE version for $25-$30 k and that's as much as I want to pay for an EV.
Not sure why an EV should cost 50 - 75 % more than an ICE car.
1
LearingCenterAlumni1 day ago
+1
The EVs coming to Canada are going to be rather pricey and will eventually harm local production.
1
thecanadiandriver1016 days ago
+27
IIRC the tax breaks Honda got from the Canadian government were on operating profit/income, not to build the plant. So no taxpayer dollars lost. Maybe
27
DisembodiedHand6 days ago
+10
Honda is shitting the bed. Even Toyota has embraced ev's and phev's more than honda.
10
Xyleksoll6 days ago
+5
Honda is smaller and more local market dependant. They are a major player in North America, nowhere to be seen in Europe. With the collapse of the EV market in US, this makes perfect sense fort them. Make what sells.
5
imminatural6 days ago
+1
> Even Toyota has embraced ev's
Toyota still doesn't have a good ev sedan. There's a reason Honda canceled their ev sedan, nobody can make the numbers work into a good car. Honda drops their bad cars, sometimes before even releasing them.
And don't show me a SUV as evidence of an EV. SUVs are what you build when you can't make sedans competitively, it's the little league of cars.
1
TheonlyDuffmani5 days ago
+4
The world is suv crazy right now, sedans just aren’t what people are buying. It’s a 2-1 purchasing ratio.
4
SteamSteamLG5 days ago
+3
No one is buying sedans. They make SUVs because people buy them. I have a sedan and so many times I wished it had a hatch. Really I want a wagon but there is no market in the US for those.
3
Lain_Staley4 days ago
+3
Never change, Listnook.
3
mafugga774 days ago
+2
Canada catching L’s
Knowledge, capital and demand all head south.
An economy reliant on non-renewable resources, bloated real-estate and traditional finance continues to rest on its laurels.
2
Lain_Staley4 days ago
Canada should hope US's immigration laws strengthen/remain strong, lest they become New Zealand to Australia. That brain drain/$$ drain is insane.
0
Snigglybear6 days ago
+4
China should make a deal with the Canadian government and open a Chinese EV plant and flood Canada with c**** cars.
4
imminatural6 days ago
+7
That wouldn't work, because Chinese EVs are only c**** because lax crash safety standards, cheaper labor, and government subsidies. It's not like they actually figured out how to make a better car, you lose the advantage when you build it somewhere else.
7
Snigglybear6 days ago
+3
They’ll still be a lot cheaper than Canadian cars for ordinary Canadians. Canada’s a good market for China to take control of and make Chinese EVs in Canada and Europe the common car for ordinary people. US auto manufacturers can learn how to create cheaper and efficient cars from Chinese EVs in Canada and create an affordable domestic American EV.
3
Abridged62514 days ago
-2
>lax crash safety standards
China has safety standards as high or even higher than the rest of the world.
>government subsidies
Direct subsidies were phased out in 2022, and many were less than $300 per vehicle.
>cheaper labor
This is only one part of it. Vertical integration plays a bigger role.
>It's not like they actually figured out how to make a better car
Have you seen their battery tech? Some even have UAVs integrated in the roof! It's actually crazy how advanced they are now compared to North America
-2
StickaFORKinMyEye3 days ago
+3
There are currently talks.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/stellantis-plant-brampton-ontario-ev-ford-9.7151265
3
ovalracer316 days ago
+5
The problem is without heavy government subsidies EV just isn’t there yet.
5
Truthmobiles6 days ago
-1
How so?
-1
GilbyGlibber6 days ago
+16
From a financial standpoint, someone needs to drive a lot for an EV to be worth it. For me, switching to, for example, a Model 3 would nearly double my insurance rate, and this difference is more than what I pay for gas.
Then there's the issue that many living in condos don't have access to home charging. Access to home charging needs to come first before anything else.
16
Illustrious-Grl-79796 days ago
+5
Yes to all of this plus the price of tags is triple that of gas vehicles to offset the govt loss of gas tax revenue and the limited range is also an issue for all but short trips due to the lack of supporting infrastructure along the highways as well as the added travel time needed to charge.
5
Tasty-Traffic-6806 days ago
-2
Sub 15 minute DC fast charging basically negates the need for home charging. It's just that the rates are often far higher than home charging, often wiping out any savings over gas.
-2
llDurbinll6 days ago
+3
Exclusively fast charging is a good way to ruin the battery if you're one to keep a car more than 4 or 5 years. There was a story I saw about an Uber driver who fast charged twice a day and in 4 years he needed a new battery, which costs $20k. He opted to get a new Tesla rather than replace the battery.
Obviously that's an extreme use case but if someone keeps their car for 10+ years and only fast charges they will likely need a new battery before the 10 year mark.
3
Tasty-Traffic-6806 days ago
+2
That's heavily dependent on the chemistry, cell and battery pack design. The industry is quickly transitioning to LFP cells for lower cost and longer cycle life.
Fast charging twice a day, 5 days a week would be 520 charge cycles per year. For older NMC batteries they typically were rated for 1000-1500 cycles. I doubt someone was actually doing full charge and discharge cycles that often but even partial cycles, it's still a lot of use. If he was quoted $20k to replace the battery then that means he was out of warranty by mileage or time. Frankly, it's kind of a poor business decision to run an EV into the ground for precisely this reason.
2
llDurbinll6 days ago
+1
Yeah I believe he was at 120k miles when it failed so Tesla declined to warranty it even though he was within the time frame for the warranty.
1
No-Ear79886 days ago
-1
> Uber driver who fast charged twice a day and in 4 years he needed a new battery
I think this is the wrong takeaway. The charging wasn't the issue. The high usage was what killed the battery; depletion and recharge. All fast charging did was allow the driver to speed the process even faster. Normal charging would force driver to give car/battery at least 5 hour break which would "extend" the life of the battery.
-1
llDurbinll6 days ago
+6
It's the heat from the fast charging that causes it to degrade faster. Same thing with smart phones. My Pixel 8 pro has a warning when you enable fast charging that it will degrade the battery faster by enabling it.
6
SteamSteamLG5 days ago
+3
No, fast charging creates more heat and degrades batteries more quickly. A vehicle with 1000 slow charging cycles will have a much better battery than one with 1000 fast charging cycles even if milage and age is identical.
3
GilbyGlibber6 days ago
+2
Home charging is a massive financial and convenience incentive for an EV. It's virtually "free". I also don't charge my phone when i'm out, why would I want inconvenience myself by needing to charge my EV away from home?
2
Tasty-Traffic-6806 days ago
+3
It's not virtually free, at best it costs a slightly lower off-peak rate and in most cases it's not even considerably cheaper than the non-charging rate and often requires a separate meter to set up. Otherwise the point is that a huge chunk of the population doesn't currently have access to home charging and lack the ability to install it.
Try opening your eyes beyond your own needs for a change. Is it really that hard to think about people who live in apartments?
3
GilbyGlibber6 days ago
+2
I'm thinking about the user who doesn't want to make bad decisions. EVs do not make sense if you can't charge at home.
2
Tasty-Traffic-6806 days ago
+1
Hence my original statement... Look up what BYD charges at their stations in China. It's to the point where it's a simply a price issue in the US, not a charging speed issue.
1
SteamSteamLG5 days ago
+1
Around me I can charge at home for $0.13 a kwh. At the fast charger it is $0.47.
1
Tasty-Traffic-6805 days ago
Exactly. The access issue is slowly but surely being taken care of in a lot of cities and along highway routes but the price is outrageous. If we had more reasonable rates through public charging like BYD has done in China it would be far more attractive for people who don't have access to home charging. We can make charging as ubiquitous and nearly as fast as pumping gas but that won't matter if the price is whack. It needs to be quality on my end otherwise no fuckin deal.
The biggest challenge to that is the rapidly changing environment and charging speeds. Look how far we've come in just 10 years - new BYD cars are capable of charging 10 times faster than the model S was able to do. You have 10 year old or newer public level 2 charging infrastructure that's basically antiquated at this point. Companies need to both plan ahead for far higher power requirements as well as make a return far quicker than they likely anticipated in the past.
0
Revolution-SixFour6 days ago
-5
Are you comparing your old car to buying a new car? Of course the insurance is way higher. The only comparison that matters is new to new, since we shouldn't be encouraging people to ditch their perfectly good older cars.
-5
No-Ear79886 days ago
+7
> Of course the insurance is way higher. The only comparison that matters is new to new
It's been proven that EV are always more expensive when compared equally. Parts cost a lot and have very few third-party alternatives and because of the technology labor cost is high.
7
GilbyGlibber6 days ago
+3
My 2015 Subaru WRX vs a friend's 2018 Tesla Model 3, both clean driving records
3
antelope5916 days ago
+17
The infastructure for EV in Canada is probably the worst out of any 1st world country and demand is very low overall. Ultimately it comes down to price tho. Civic has been the best selling car here forever because it was something c**** and dependable. The equivalent doesnt exist in the EV space.
17
rexbron6 days ago
+13
It exists, but it’s Chinese.
13
imminatural6 days ago
+2
> It exists, but it’s Chinese.
Civic has been the best selling car here forever because it was something c**** and **dependable**.
You cannot depend on Chinese cars, c**** as they may be.
2
eemamedo5 days ago
+2
I agree about infra point. I was looking to buy an EV couple years back but gave up because 1) I live in condo and there are 5 charging stations for 28 floors; 2) I cannot install charging station in my spot; 3) It's quite expensive and very tough to find an empty charging station near me, forcing me to drive further and further; not something I want to do at all.
2
ThePlanner6 days ago
-8
The basic Model 3 and Model Y are essentially that, unfortunately.
-8
No-Ear79886 days ago
+13
1. Demand doesn't sustain production. China is unique in that PRC artificially started/sustained demand by removing license plate limits for EV. China has also allowed many of their EV to run at loss and use government contracts to pad their books.
2. Charging infrastructure is not convenient for the masses. 30ish minute charge and public charges are generally inconvenient.
3. Inability to resale or hold it long term. People got it wrong thinking the battery is the barrier to long term ownership. It's the software that's the barrier. For example, Tesla entire operation is through one touch screen; including switching to drive. Owning a Tesla 20 years from now is probably going to be like owning an original iPhone today.
13
WKZ2046 days ago
+2
It's wild how badly we have botched EV production in Canada.
2
Ecstatic-Coach6 days ago
+34
They’re cancelling the plant bc EV demand in the USA hasfallen. People prefer hybrids, not sure what Canada can do about that
34
BorntoBomb6 days ago
+5
Rest of the world ditching anything that usnt EVs faster than anytime in history.
We'll see how this works out
5
AccountDramatic69714 days ago
+4
Hybrids also have the highest market share in the EU. EV adoption has been slow and not to mention the implications on current infrastructure.
4
Tigerbutton8316 days ago
+9
Demand would be greater if we had the infrastructure built out to accommodate it. Which we were getting to with Biden’s bill to build out half a million charging stations across the country, until the orange dipshit got elected and worked to kill the project
9
brattysweat6 days ago
I’m seeing more Teslas in California than ever before. It’s like every other car on the road now is a Tesla. And used ones are dirt c****. Honda is pulling out because they’re late in the game not because no one wants an EV
0
SpiroG6 days ago
+6
Not trying to be negative, just a genuine question - isn't the California EV situation kinda unique?
Do other major cities have similar adoption rates, if at all? NYC, Washington DC, Austin TX, Atlanta, Chicago, Phoenix, etc?
As far as I can find, only 4 cities in the U.S. have adoption >=20%, and only 2 of those are >=25% (but by 1%).
Seems to me like that's a huge untapped market... the lack of infrastructure should be a much bigger factor, no?
6
BorntoBomb6 days ago
+3
Wait until the US caves on china...
Youre gonna see some real shit
3
lexcyn6 days ago
+47
Umm... What? Canada relies on foreign automakers to produce cars here. This situation is mostly because of one giant turd south of us.
47
WillSRobs6 days ago
+15
Canada is an extremely small market.
15
asdf-76446 days ago
+4
Canada actually buys more vehicles than it produces
4
NiceShotMan6 days ago
+3
It ranks 11th in the world
3
upvoatsforall6 days ago
+11
And US is 2nd and will be largely inaccessible to the vehicles from the plant.
California is a bigger car market than Canada.
11
WillSRobs6 days ago
+1
And that means a new plant here meant to send cars to the us is profitable how?
1
alxrenaud6 days ago
We are not many, but the amount of people with car payments.. I mean new cars is quite high.
0
upvoatsforall6 days ago
+4
California is a bigger auto market than Canada as a whole.
And those payments people are making on cars that are underwater now. So they can’t afford to buy a new car.
4
Fromundacheese06 days ago
-45
What haven’t yall botched recently?
-45
pixelated_dongs6 days ago
+9
Better than getting fleeced by a con on a daily basis.
9
upvoatsforall6 days ago
Gaining a ton of influence over your former allies.
0
Fromundacheese06 days ago
-5
Congrats? You’re aware we’re obviously stepping back in our role as the world police right?
-5
upvoatsforall6 days ago
+1
You’re letting the country be run by a man with dementia. Nothing he is doing is productive or beneficial for your country.
1
biscuitarse6 days ago
+1
By bombing Iran, lol? Fuckin whackjob.
1
Thompsonc216 days ago
+2
Why not just take over the EV plant that was built and sitting empty in Welland
2
igotitithink6 days ago
-2
They should. It will give them an opportunity to use PowerCo Soli State. Plant being built in St Thomas.
-2
Charger_Reaction77146 days ago
-1
Cool. We don’t need you. China will dominate the EV market anyway, we’re better off partnering with them
-1
[deleted]6 days ago
-21
[deleted]
-21
IDr3yI6 days ago
+8
It's not to spite Trump, it's Trump thinking were gonna bend over to his will every time he throws a tantrum over something he does not understand.
The US has become an unreliable trade partner, time to move on.
8
Ahdahn6 days ago
+4
Comments from yanks like this just show how out of tune they are. Like yes you threaten our sovereignty if we don't bend to your every will f*** yes we will turn on you.
85 Comments