When Kagan and Sotomayor side with the entire Right slate, the state's screwed it up. Kagan's concurrence even points to how it could have been done in a manner to avoid it clearly being a 1st amendment violation, (although still likely to draw conservative flak.) They should read her opinion closely and rethink the manner of addressing it.
426
iamamuttonheadMar 31, 2026
+100
This should be the top comment IMO. Rarely do I disagree with Keanji Brown Jackson but she's wrong on this. The Colorado law, as written, patently violates the First Amendment.
100
MeasureDoEventThingApr 1, 2026
+22
Do laws against practicing therapy without a license "patently violates the First Amendment"? What about mandatory reporter laws? What if there's a law saying it's a crime for a therapist to tell their client they should kill themself? What about laws that criminalize parents emotionally abusing their kids, when that abuse consists solely of speech?
We have here a case with:
Compelling state interest
Minors
Commercial speech
Speech that is inextricably of a conduct nature
All of these lessen the strength of the first amendment
22
dd463Apr 1, 2026
+4
But is it the least restrictive means and is it narrowly tailored. There are three parts to that test. The least restrictive means could be banning the practice absent patient consent and banning parents from forcing their kids into it. Government can regulate the practice and protect kids but not ban a specific content of speech. This may have the roundabout way of banning conversion therapy but, tackling it this way gets you to time place manner vs content based and that’s a lower easier standard to meet.
4
mormonatheist21Apr 1, 2026
+1
it’s not preventing them from speaking.. it’s regulating who can represent themselves to the public as a therapist??
1
dd463Apr 1, 2026
+1
No. §12–245–224(1)(t)(V) says you can’t do conversion therapy if you’re a licensed therapist. Conversion therapy is trying to change gender identity or sexual orientation and bans the practice with no regard for how it’s done. The plaintiff says she only talks to people about that and since the law doesn’t distinguish the how she is being prevented from speaking because of what she is saying. So she’s saying that the law as applied to her is unconstitutional and she wants an injunction. It reached the Supreme Court on the injunction question and the Supreme Court said the 10th circuit didn’t use the correct standard and they need to go back and apply that standard. Jackson is saying that then strict standard isn’t necessary because it’s a medical treatment and that has less protection than normal speech.
1
mormonatheist21Apr 1, 2026
+1
you just confirmed my reading of the case…
1
iamamuttonheadApr 1, 2026
+1
With longer time to ponder I agree. The crux, for me, is that it is Commercial speech and Commercial speech is regulated all the time. Conversion Therapy seems to me to be fraudulent commercial speech.
1
6a6566663437Apr 1, 2026
+35
There are laws in several states that require abortion providers to give an anti-abortion speech as a condition of their license.
According to the SCOTUS, that does not violate the first amendment. Because that's what they ruled in Casey, and that part of the decision was not overturned by Dobbs.
Sotomayor and Kagan have apparently decided to join the right-wing of the court with their "f*** precedent, we do what we want" opinions.
35
RequirementQuirky468Apr 1, 2026
+1
>There are laws in several states that require abortion providers to give an anti-abortion speech as a condition of their license.
Those laws are closer to the requirement that a drug company provide a pamphlet describing the potential effects of their drug to everyone who receives a prescription.
This case is more like saying that a state would, if it wishes, be permitted to ban therapists entirely from affirming LGB sexualities or TQIA+ identities. The Supreme Court is saying that such a ban would have to survive strict scrutiny (and it probably won't).
1
SaddamMustaineApr 1, 2026
+2
I think there may be some truth to the notion that sometimes justices say things just so there’s a dissenting opinion or two regardless of whether or not they agree or disagree w the other justices.
2
iZoooomMar 31, 2026
-18
She - and they all - voted 9-0 that Trump was eligible to run, in clear and direct violation of the constitution. They all need to be impeached, as they are all complicit. None of them are interested in legal thinking.
But 3 of them are clearly better than the other 6.
-18
ratione_materiaeApr 1, 2026
+7
Not what the ruling is
7
andyraylanMar 31, 2026
+16
I’m not sure that is a fair characterization of what happened. I think it was about one state having control of national elections.
16
iZoooomMar 31, 2026
+4
No, it’s pretty clear:
> No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.
4
andyraylanMar 31, 2026
+19
I’m not arguing what the constitution reads. I’m trying to say that the SC ruling in that case was not as simple as you are making it out to be, legally. It was about the mechanism of enforcement.
19
PluginAlongMar 31, 2026
+11
Exactly, he was never convicted of anything, SCOTUS held that the law was not self executing and that Congress would have had to have taken action for it to be in effect.
11
StephanXXMar 31, 2026
+19
>shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.
Biden should have ensured Trump was tried and convicted of insurrection. He didn't. Since there was no legal determination of Trump's insurrection, there was no legal reason to prohibit his candidacy. Otherwise, it would be trivial to block political rivals from running on fabricated charges.
19
UltravioletAfterglowMar 31, 2026
+9
No, Joe Biden was president, not attorney general. Biden clearly and repeatedly said during his campaign he would not interfere with and politicize the DOJ, which had operated independently until Trump’s first term. He stuck to that promise as president, as he should have.
9
StephanXXMar 31, 2026
+3
Remind me who the Attorney General and the DoJ report to? Merrick Garland absolutely had the authority and responsibility to hold Trump accountable for the insurrection on January 6th. If he had done his job, Trump would be in a secure prison instead of robbing the Treasury.
3
andyraylanApr 1, 2026
+5
While you are correct, I prefer if the POTUS did not exert pressure onto the DOJ. It’s how it works during Trumps term but that doesn’t mean it should work that way.
5
StephanXXApr 1, 2026
+1
I share your sentiment. Biden was right not to exert which direction Garland went. The failure was Garland was utterly ineffective. He established one of the largest investigations the DoJ has ever engaged in, yet had absolutely nothing to show for it three years later. It's a staggering level of incompetence given Trump literally bragged about engineering the insurrection on national television. Biden should have held Garland accountable for his failures. Instead, we're at war with Iran, Trump is selling state secrets to the highest bidder, and stealing billions of dollars from the Treasury.
1
Pretend_Handle_7639Apr 1, 2026
Are you arguing that the buck stops somewhere below the President?
Did Joe Biden not take a sacred oath to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution"? Is Joe Biden not the most powerful person charged by sacred oath to do that?
0
windchllApr 1, 2026
+6
Yes, for the vast preponderance of the USA's history, the decision of prosecution did primarily stop with the AG. Precisely to avoid this rampant bullshit of Trump trying to prosecute everyone that rolls their eyes at him. And, agreeing with andyraylan, it's how it should work.
6
johhnny5Mar 31, 2026
+3
Yeah, the SC said, as far as I am aware, that one state didn’t have the authority to make the determination in a manner that would effect the outcome for the whole United States, especially when there exists a process that could be undertaken to make that determination at the federal level and Merrick Garland slow walked it.
3
YaSurLetsGoSeeYamchaApr 1, 2026
+3
This is just a blatant misunderstanding of how the judicial system works, I hate Trump but that was not the way to prevent him from taking office.
3
JDDJSMar 31, 2026
+11
That's an extreme oversimplification of what actually happened....
11
iZoooomMar 31, 2026
-8
No, it’s really quite clear:
> No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or **hold any office**, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.
-8
thegreenfuryMar 31, 2026
+6
As others pointed out, legally Trump was never convicted of anything close to “engaging in insurrection.” Unfortunately that means he was not barred from running. I’m not happy about it either but it was the only possible outcome based on the law.
6
iZoooomMar 31, 2026
-2
There is/was no need to have him legally found guilty - although by then federal Colorado and appeals courts had already labeled this as insurrection. Thats what allowed the SC to step in at all.
This is a political process, not a criminal one. As the SC overrode the fjnding of facts of the lower court clearly showed at the time.
-2
thegreenfuryMar 31, 2026
+6
A Supreme Court decision is a legal process not a political one. And the fact that it was unanimous is a pretty obvious indication you’re wrong about this.
6
iZoooomMar 31, 2026
+1
I mostly agree with you on all points there. :)
1
Fragrant-Luck-8063Apr 1, 2026
+2
So why wasn't he removed on 1/6? How did he stay in office after he was disqualified?
2
Expensive_Track_8822Mar 31, 2026
-1
now if “conviction on a charge of insurrection” were part of the law in question you would have a point. but it isn’t! so you don’t. and incidentally the prohibition on office has previously been enforced without any such charge or conviction for the persons involved. so based on both precedent and black letter law, i call bunk on this particular claim.
-1
windchllApr 1, 2026
+1
I mean, sounds like we can all pool our money, buy off the Rhode Island Supreme Court, have them note that all Republicans have committed insurrection, and the GOP is just done on their say so at that point? This seems a bit suspect.
1
Pretend_Handle_7639Apr 1, 2026
-5
No, the State of CO is right and the "Justices" are too cowardly to defend personhood rights.
-5
6a6566663437Apr 1, 2026
+25
No, Kagan is extremely wrong here.
Especially in light of states that require abortion providers to give an anti-abortion speech. That's legal, thanks to the parts of Casey that survived Dobbs.
If it's legal to force abortion providers to speak against their beliefs as a condition of their license, it's legal to force anti-LGBT therapists to not speak as a condition of their license.
25
MeasureDoEventThingApr 1, 2026
+1
Has anyone litigated whether the state can compel a position? That is, if a law says "You have to tell the patient the fetus is a person", can the provider say "The state believes that the fetus is a person" and refuse to make any statement that would imply that THEY believe the fetus is a person? I wonder about CA's Prop 65 with a similar issue: can someone simply say "This is a chemical that the state of California believes causes cancer", while refusing to say that it DOES cause cancer?
1
6a6566663437Apr 1, 2026
+1
The state can literally write the speech abortion providers are required to give and require the abortion providers to recite it verbatim.
1
ratione_materiaeApr 1, 2026
+1
>it's legal to force anti-LGBT therapists to not speak as a condition of their license.
Then you would be OK (or at least think it constitutional) if a state passed Kagan’s hypothetical law?
>Consider a hypothetical law that is the mirror image of Colorado’s. Instead of barring talk therapy designed to change a minor’s sexual orientation or gender identity, this law bars therapy affirming those things. As Ms. Chiles readily acknowledges, the First Amendment would apply in the identical way.
1
6a6566663437Apr 1, 2026
I think the precedent set in Casey is awful, but only modifying that precedent to "unless you want to be a bigot" is evil.
0
RequirementQuirky468Apr 1, 2026
+1
Kagan's hypothetical is saying that Colorado is effectively also arguing that the state should be permitted to ban therapists from affirming LGB sexualities and TQIA+ identities as part of therapy. The ruling is that such a ban would need to survive strict scrutiny.
They're not specifically protecting the viewpoints you dislike; they're also protecting the ones you like. That's exactly how the system is supposed to work.
1
ctishmanApr 1, 2026
+1
Could that provision fall, in light of this ruling?
1
6a6566663437Apr 1, 2026
+4
This ruling doesn't say anything about changing the previous ruling, and the conservatives would never reverse that part of Casey in a new case.
So no.
4
KetzephApr 1, 2026
+1
But that doesn’t mean it’s not consistent with it falling if applied properly.
I think people also vastly oversimplify opinions when a lot of the time bad argument or poor foundation of case cites can doom a result regardless.
1
dd463Apr 1, 2026
+2
I say it would now be ripe to challenge as it is clearly compelled speech which is subject to the same set of rules and content based restrictions.
However if the states wanted to do malicious compliance, they could use that part of Casey and say that if you are going to do conversion therapy you have to give a lengthy disclosure that says it’s not based in any science, has been proven to be harmful, and has never been proven to work.
2
icantbenormalApr 1, 2026
+1
I disagree that it is “clearly” a violation. Talk therapy is both a form of treatment and speech. The question is whether you can regulate the manner of (state-licensed) treatment without infringing on speech.
1
dd463Apr 1, 2026
+3
Regulatory agency could say that it’s not an allowed practice because it’s harmful to the patient. And it could say that if you’re offering talk therapy you have to be licensed and that they wont license anyone who practices conversion therapy.
State could also ban conversion therapy without patient consent and ban parents from forcing their kids into it. That way you’re not banning the practice but banning who they are allowed to practice it on which is much easier to do.
3
X57471CApr 1, 2026
+2
They literally called it a textbook case of viewpoint discrimination.
2
Mutant-CatApr 1, 2026
+3
And they are literally wrong.
3
X57471CApr 1, 2026
+1
Well... I'm not an expert on constitutional law, are you?
1
Mutant-CatApr 1, 2026
+4
Neither of us need to be. Anyone can read the opinions and form their own opinions.
In my opinion, Jackson's dissent is very compelling.
She contends that this is not, as the majority argues, a case requiring 1st amendment scrutiny (i.e. examining whether the 1st amendment is violated).
She argues that this is a law that regulates a medical practice, specifically that it prevents therapists from trying to change their patients gender or sexual orientation. It does not restrict free speech.
All states regulate medical practices to ensure a high standard of care and protect patients. Outlawing therapists from applying conversion therapy (an unscientific, ineffective and highly damaging practice) is therefore reasonable.
4
X57471CApr 1, 2026
+4
I know, I read the opinions, but I'm still not comfortable pretending like I can speak with authority about legal matters. For that reason, I'm not trying to argue with you about this.
Here is a quote from Kagan's [opinion ](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/24-539_fd9g.pdf)that explains why the Colorado law is unconstitutional:
>Colorado’s law, as applied to talk therapy, regulates based on viewpoint, for the reasons the Court gives. ... The law forbids a counselor to provide therapy designed to “change \[a minor’s\] sexual orientation or gender identity.”... At the same time, the law specifically allows a counselor to offer therapy expressing “\[a\]cceptance, support,” and other affirmation of the minor’s “identity exploration.” ... So, for example, the law prevents a therapist from saying she can help a minor change his same-sex orientation, but permits her to say that such a goal is impossible and so she will help him accept his gay identity. Colorado does not dispute that point... Nor does it dispute that under normal First Amendment principles, that difference constitutes viewpoint discrimination... Indeed, the case is textbook. The law “distinguishes between two opposed sets of ideas”—the one resisting, the other reflecting, the State’s own view of how to speak with minors about sexual orientation and gender identity. ... Or said just a bit differently, the law draws a line based on the speaker’s “opinion or perspective,” and thus enables “speech on only one side”—the State’s preferred side—of an ideologically charged issue.
The Constitution trumps everything else and this SC found that the Colorado law infringes on the 1A. I would typically be skeptical of this court if it had not been an 8-1 decision. Kagan and Sotomayor, two liberal judges, called it a textbook example of [viewpoint discrimination](https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/viewpoint-discrimination/). Even though the intent of the law is good, it is violates the Constitution. They need to find a different legal angle. Kagan and Sotomayor seem to think one exist because they hint at it in their opinion, as well:
>the Colorado law challenged here, as applied to talk therapy, conflicts with core First Amendment principles because it regulates speech based on viewpoint. ... \[however\] **if Colorado had instead enacted a content-based but viewpoint-neutral law, it would raise a different and more difficult question.**
4
Mutant-CatApr 1, 2026
+1
Right, I'm not trying to argue with you either.
All of what you posted above rests entirely on the assumption that 1st amendment scrutiny should be applied here (as opposed to rational basis, a much lower standard of scrutiny, which is what the lower court applied).
1st amendment scrutiny is very high, as it questions whether the 1st amendment is violated, which is a big deal if it is.
However...
Should 1st amendment scrutiny actually be applied here?
If so, why?
I don't see the majority offering a compelling reason why.
1
dd463Apr 1, 2026
+4
In its simplest form, the government is telling you what you are and what you are not allowed to say. Fundamentally that is a content based restriction and the first amendment is designed, for better or worse, to protect against that.
If the opposite were true and gender affirming talk therapy was being banned we’d be demanding strict scrutiny. If a newspaper was told it couldn’t report when the local sports team was doing poorly we’d argue the same thing.
4
Mutant-CatApr 1, 2026
+1
>In its simplest form, the government is telling you what you are and what you are not allowed to say.
But legally that's okay sometimes. Not every restriction on what a person can say is a violation of the 1st amendment.
Again, this is in the context of a bill regulating a medical practice (preventing conversion therapy). And Jackson argues in her dissent that it is fine to regulate medical practices and the very high standard of 1st amendment scrutiny should not be applied.
If one argued that the government can impose NO restrictions on ANYTHING a therapist says to their patient, then it would be unconstitutional to prohibit therapists from telling a patient to kill themself. That's an example given by Jackson in her dissent.
1
dd463Apr 1, 2026
+2
The good news about our constitution is that it applies to everyone. The bad news about our constitution is that it applies to everyone. You're right not all speech is protected, but that is also a specific category that has its own rule set.
The problem with going down the road of medical regulation is you can with that logic pass a law that says its illegal for a provider to talk about abortion. We all have problems with the informed consent laws that push useless and incorrect information to people seeking abortions. But those got passed because it was "medically necessary" to force doctors to say wrong things because you have to give a patient informed consent.
If the goal is to prevent kids from being subjected to conversion therapy, then the law needs to be focused on keeping parents from forcing their kids into conversion therapy.
2
ratione_materiaeApr 1, 2026
+2
>Should 1st amendment scrutiny actually be applied here?
>If so, why?
You’re looking at it backwards, it should be “why *shouldn’t* 1A apply here?”
I know Jackson is framing this as a regulating professional practice, but Kagan’s hypothetical pretty much puts that to rest.
>Consider a hypothetical law that is the mirror image of Colorado’s. Instead of barring talk therapy designed to change a minor’s sexual orientation or gender identity, this law bars therapy affirming those things. As Ms. Chiles readily acknowledges, the First Amendment would apply in the identical way.
2
Mutant-CatApr 1, 2026
+2
But that's a bad hypothetical because those are completely opposite examples.
The reason that conversion therapy should be banned is that it is completely unscientific and is only effective at harming patients. It is rejected by every major medical society.
The reason that gender affirming therapy should not be banned is that it is scientifically proven to massively benefit patients. It is accepted by every major medical society.
Do you really think a state shouldn't be allowed to outlaw a type of "therapy" that isn't actually therapy and really just abuses its patients?
2
ratione_materiaeApr 1, 2026
+2
>But that's a bad hypothetical because those are completely opposite examples
Kagan went to Princeton, Oxford, and Harvard. You really want to fight her on this? It’s actually the perfect hypothetical *because* they are ideologically opposite but constitutionally identical.
>The reason that conversion therapy should be banned is that it is completely unscientific and is only effective at harming patients. It is rejected by every major medical society.
Completely irrelevant to the *constitutionality* of the law. A law can be good and unconstitutional, just as a law can be bad and constitutional. Kagan obviously supports the intent of the law, as telegraphed in her concurrence.
2
ResilientBiscuitApr 1, 2026
+2
In general the first amendment applies unless there is a very compelling reason it shouldn't.
No one should ever have to argue that the first amendment applies to speech, it should always be on the party saying it doesn't apply to convincingly prove the point.
2
Mutant-CatApr 1, 2026
+1
And the very compelling reason here is that this is a law about medical practice, not speech.
The law does not prohibit the therapist from expressing any views. It prohibits the therapist from trying to change their patients gender or sexual orientation.
Trying to do so is ineffective and very harmful to the patient. It is not at all a legitimate form of therapy and as such it should be banned.
1
dd463Apr 1, 2026
+2
There are two other parts of the strict scrutiny test. It must be narrowly tailored and be the least restrictive means. The problem with the Colorado law is that it prevents someone under the age of 18 from seeking out conversion therapy. While that is a vanishingly small possibility, the constitution disfavors taking away a choice like that.
The right way to do this is require patient consent and then create a process for minors to seek protection if they are being forced into therapy they don't want, either conversion or gender affirming (to make it neutral).
2
Actual__WizardMar 31, 2026
+294
Good question. How did playing pretend doctor become a free speech issue? That's not a real therapy and it's not administered by real doctors.
294
Classic-Progress-397Mar 31, 2026
+23
I think America is going to be a VERY different place in 5 years.
23
turb0_encapsulatorApr 1, 2026
+21
yes, because we're going to take back the country. we're going to try and convict the criminals in the executive branch, and we're going to add more justices and judges.
21
ScarfStackApr 1, 2026
+3
Don't forget convicting the criminals in the judicial branch. Clarence Thomas has got to go (to jail).
3
AnthonySytkoMar 31, 2026
+15
Bold of you to assume there will be an America in 5 years
15
pollologyMar 31, 2026
+89
I encourage all my fellow behavioral health professionals and mandated reporters to continue reporting it as child abuse.
89
Actual__WizardMar 31, 2026
+20
Thank you for saying that.
20
birdsofpaperApr 1, 2026
+14
🫡 Hear, hear. It *is* child abuse.
14
emerikanSkyMar 31, 2026
+52
Next stop, witch doctors.
52
Actual__WizardMar 31, 2026
+34
I'm being 100% serious about this. I did some math and I'm going to have to pay more money to the government to get out of an incorrectly issued ticket, then just paying it. How is that not racketeering? So, they just hand out tickets for nothing and you're screwed either way? WTF? It's legitimately Nazi Germany stuff dude... These people have completely lost their minds... So, am I being victimized by a "pay the extortion fee to be innocent scheme?"
Do I need a civil rights lawyer? WTF dude?
So, the innocent are being punished by law enforcement officers now? You're financially responsible either way?
34
jo-parkeMar 31, 2026
+17
Yep, paying the ticket is usually cheaper. Argue it and lose and it’s the ticket plus court costs, etc. It’s a racket.
17
Actual__WizardMar 31, 2026
+14
Seriously it is. I'm trying to request "the actual evidence of what occurred" and they're doing this thing on the phone like "are you sure you want to do that? do you have a lawyer? do you understand that's going to cost a lot of money?"
I feel like I'm being scammed here... By the police of all people... They're trying to "talk me out of it on the phone."
14
Fauxreigner_Apr 1, 2026
+4
> So, the innocent are being punished by law enforcement officers now?
> I feel like I'm being scammed here... By the police of all people... They're trying to "talk me out of it on the phone."
None of this is new behavior by the police in the US. I’m guessing you’re not a member of the communities that they tend to abuse and take advantage of?
Which, to be clear, doesn’t make it any unjust or frustrating, but this has been happening for a LONG time.
4
CaesarLinguiniApr 1, 2026
+2
You gotta pay the court cost regardless.
Esit: in my state at least.
2
Present-Resolution23Mar 31, 2026
+4
lol, first time?
4
Actual__WizardApr 1, 2026
+4
Yeah usually I just pay the ticket because I actually broke the traffic law. This time I didn't. But, I'm definitely not going to go to court and lie to the judge because it's cheaper... WTF?
4
dd463Apr 1, 2026
+2
Did you factor in insurance costs rising? Pay a lawyer $500 and the ticket is say $150 but it doesn’t go down as a moving violation so your insurance doesn’t go up. $650 now to avoids more costs later. And that is for a valid ticket invalid you maybe get an additional civil remedy.
2
Actual__WizardApr 1, 2026
+1
>Did you factor in insurance costs rising?
I can't because I don't know the amount.
1
dd463Apr 1, 2026
+1
Did traffic ticket defense for a number of years and that was often the main goal was not to get a hike in insurance.
1
Actual__WizardApr 1, 2026
+1
Okay, in this case, it's "my ethics." I'm not going to lie to the court to pay less money. I'm not going to plead guilty to breaking a law that I didn't break because "it's more convenient."
1
dd463Apr 1, 2026
+1
See if there are alternatives. Maybe the prosecutor will swap to a non moving violation. Maybe there is a class you can take.
1
coldchileApr 1, 2026
+2
That’s some bullshit, you should not have to pay more for doing nothing wrong, but “legit Nazi Germany stuff” is a bit dramatic no?
2
Actual__WizardApr 1, 2026
+4
No, it's not overly dramatic at all. That's the kind of stuff they used to do in Nazi Germany. The police used to run around and harass everybody, remember the SS? It's the same thing. People thought they're safe in their own country and the police protect them, but that's not true. I got scammed by a police officer, how is that "protecting me?" So, the police are going around in America scamming law followers by passing out fake tickets?
So, the police aren't investigating criminals, they're scamming law followers? That's pretty bad.
4
Zephod03Mar 31, 2026
+6
[Please, Read from sheet](https://youtu.be/o5jxVyJRCwo?si=pKuyGwX2bFuaq4aR).
6
TheZapsterMar 31, 2026
+1
[ Removed by Listnook ]
1
Shizzar_Apr 1, 2026
As a practicing Witch we have long recognized the fact that some people are not there biological sex. We love lgbt+
0
TwodogsonecouchMar 31, 2026
+23
Well that’s why it got blocked. The court followed the argument that it wasnt a medical therapy that it was free speech. Colorado tried to argue that it was a medical therapy that is proven unsafe and this needs to be regulated.
23
Actual__WizardMar 31, 2026
+21
>Colorado tried to argue that it was a medical therapy that is proven unsafe and this needs to be regulated.
That's correct... It's torture, it's not "therapy."
Their sexuality is encoded before they're born. Talking to them does not change the structure of the cells in their body. This is absurd.
That decision has nothing to do with medicine or free speech to be honest about it... It's about using free speech as a loophole to torture people who didn't do anything to deserve it.
The entire concept of "we can talk our way around science and medicine" thing that is occurring is also totally absurd...
21
dd463Apr 1, 2026
+2
To be clear talk therapy was the subject of the ruling. The camps and other “treatments” are still very much banned.
2
adminhotepApr 1, 2026
Encoded before born? Is this rhetorical or based off of some evidence?
Id heard that orientation imprints early in life but if identical twins can be different orientations (they can) it’d take some pretty compelling data to show that it’s fixed in utero.
0
Actual__WizardApr 1, 2026
>Encoded before born?
Your genetics are indeed encoded into every cell in your body. You have approximately 700 trillion cells, of which each are composed of approximately 700 trillion atoms each. That math is "a very rough estimate."
>Id heard that orientation imprints early in life but if identical twins can be different orientations
Life is adaptive in nature. Just because "they start at the same point genetically doesn't mean they are 100% structurally identical." There are many different factors that could cause their brain to have a slightly different structure.
I'm being serious when I say this: I can tell that some people have a brain structure where they are forced to think "a single way and they can't do anything else." They can have one goal and do one thing at a time, and they can only think about something from a single perspective (their own.)
>it’d take some pretty compelling data to show that it’s fixed in utero.
There's a range of expression like everything else. The "range is fixed and it can still shift around during the expression (human growth)." I'm not suggesting the "pairing is fixed" because the pairing component requires opportunity. A person has to find a person that is attracted to them to have an opportunity to be in a relationship with them.
Then remember, there's "desire to procreate," "desired partner type, as in life style partner" and "desire to entertain one's sexual desires." Obviously that has to be "disambiguated to get a more clear picture."
0
evokadeMar 31, 2026
+14
They deliberately missed the point. It's not a question of free speech, it's a f****** human rights issue. You can't shoot up a school and call it free speech.
14
RequirementQuirky468Apr 1, 2026
It's a human rights issue in that it's a question of free speech.
Shooting is not speech; talking is speech.
0
EmmitSanApr 1, 2026
+1
I agree but we don’t ban homeopathy, or chiropractic clinics. I can see how the precedent here could be terrible, regardless of the fact that conversion therapy is bullshit.
1
[deleted]Apr 1, 2026
[deleted]
0
EmmitSanApr 1, 2026
I think you’ll have trouble finding an orthopedic medical doctor who agrees with you.
0
Actual__WizardApr 1, 2026
+1
Okay, I'll just delete it then. I'm so incredibly sick and tired of trying to politely explain my position to people and them down voting me.
1
duncandunMar 31, 2026
+1
therapy/counseling is very rarely administered by 'real doctors', assuming you mean MDs or DOs, or even PHDs.
1
Actual__WizardMar 31, 2026
+1
>assuming you mean MDs or DOs, or even PHDs.
Yes.
1
Present-Resolution23Mar 31, 2026
-4
I would think playing pretend doctor would be exactly what makes it a free speech issue. And that’s kind of what the court found here.
-4
Shabadu_tuMar 31, 2026
+12
Fraud is not protected by the first amendment, until now.
12
holyoakMar 31, 2026
+86
Kudos to Colorado for getting out in front of this issue. But this law was poorly written.
And **we want** mechanisms in place for repealing shitty laws. Hopefully, that is a conversation were are going to face as a nation in the very near future.
THE ACTUAL ISSUE is that the law was written to preclude 'talk therapy', which was (probably correctly) interpreted to violate the 1st.
86
AnaniujithaMar 31, 2026
+29
A number of states ban talk therapy which *supports* questioning and trans kids. I thought the supreme exterminationists approved *those* bans in Skrmetti.
29
Top_Agency1370Apr 1, 2026
+2
Well I sure hope those laws are challenged in court based on this ruling. Get to work lawyers and advocates!
2
Quirky_Equal5241Apr 1, 2026
+1
Seriously so can we talk to kids about sexual orientation or can we not?
1
ratione_materiaeApr 1, 2026
+1
Dawg which states? Strange that no one brought them up and Kagan framed hers as a hypothetical
>Consider a hypothetical law that is the mirror image of Colorado’s. Instead of barring talk therapy designed to change a minor’s sexual orientation or gender identity, this law bars therapy affirming those things. As Ms. Chiles readily acknowledges, the First Amendment would apply in the identical way.
1
AnaniujithaApr 1, 2026
+1
In the news:
Texas:
https://www.advocate.com/politics/states/trans-mental-health-ken-paxton
> Texas AG Ken Paxton says ban on gender-affirming care for trans kids also applies to talk therapy
Going through Erin in the Morning's list of anti-trans bills, I think these have passed:
Some are unambiguous:
Kansas:
https://legiscan.com/KS/bill/SB63/2025
State employees may not "promote the use of social transitioning" for chidren, and defines "social transitioning" in ways that include most talk therapy.
Ohio:
https://legiscan.com/OH/bill/HB96/2025
page 2846, "no funds shall be distributed to youth shelters that promote or affirm social gender transition..."
page 2879, "To the extent permitted by federal law, no funds appropriated in section 333.10 of this act shall be distributed for mental health services that promote or affirm social gender transition..."
Others are ambiguous:
Idaho:
https://legiscan.com/ID/text/H0345/2025
This bill mainly imposes Medicaid work requirements, but it also bans Medicaid coverage for "any gender reassignment procedures," without defining them.
Iowa:
https://legiscan.com/IA/text/HF1049/2025
This bill bans Medicaid coverage for "sex reassignment surgery or associated procedures," without defining them; since talk therapy has been a prerequisite for surgery, it could be considered an "associated procedure."
1
ratione_materiaeApr 1, 2026
+1
None of those are remotely the same as the Colorado law. Most of them deal with Medicaid funds, which is entirely separate from a First Amendment issue
In your own words, why didn’t Kagan mention any of those and instead considered an entirely hypothetical mirror law?
1
6a6566663437Apr 1, 2026
+12
So why is it perfectly fine to force abortion providers to give an anti-abortion speech?
Because there's several states with those laws, and the SCOTUS explicitly ruled that such a requirement does not violate the first amendment because it's about regulations licensing medical care and not speech.
That's exactly what this case is - Colorado was licensing medical care and not speech.
There are no mechanisms for repealing shitty laws. Those get a favorable ruling at the SCOTUS. Sotomayor and Kagan have decided to join the right wing with "f*** precedent, we do what we want".
12
Mutant-CatApr 1, 2026
+3
The law is not written to preclude talk therapy.
The law bans therapists from trying to change their patients gender or sexual orientation.
The most obvious way a therapist would attempt that is through therapy with their patient.
It's really straightforward.
3
HammerandSickTatBroApr 1, 2026
+3
"Abuse of queer children is fine so long as it is verbal abuse administered by a con artist"
3
Present-Resolution23Mar 31, 2026
+18
Important to note that this doesn’t preclude bans on all forms of conversion therapy (therapy using physical methods was specifically cited as not being covered,) and it doesn’t even necessarily mean the ban is overturned. It just means that the standard the lower court used wasn’t applicable to the level of restriction this was, and they needed to go back and revisit the decision using the proper standard…
Also interesting, this would seem to also apply to Texas’ recent ban on conversion therapy including, as Paxton recently specifically claimed, talk therapy. They specifically found Colorado’s ban as ruled couldn’t go through because it banned speech on one ideological viewpoint but allowed the other. Texas’ ban is the exact same thing on the other side of the coin
18
6a6566663437Apr 1, 2026
+3
Also interesting, this completely breaks with the precedent in Casey where the SCOTUS ruled abortion providers can be forced by state law to give an anti-abortion speech to their patients.
Which, btw, are still legal because the SCOTUS said so.
3
dftitteringtonMar 31, 2026
+14
"Every major American medical association to consider this issue has [come out in opposition](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2025/03/lgbtq-supreme-court-gay-conversion-therapy-bans.html) to “conversion therapy” for youth and endorsed its prohibition. These groups have explained that [it is impossible](https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbtq/sexual-orientation-change) to change a person’s identity in this way and [deeply unethical](https://www.ama-assn.org/system/files/conversion-therapy-issue-brief.pdf) to try. Survivors of the practice have [attested](https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/24/24-539/370732/20250826133025555_24-539%20Amicus%20Brief.pdf) to its inefficacy and dangers, including a [heightened risk](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2025/10/conversion-therapy-supreme-court-colorado-ban.html) of suicide."
14
_mogulman31Apr 1, 2026
The medical veracity of conversion therapy was not at issue here, it was the Constitutional merits of a piece of legislation. The law while well intentioned included language that clearly violated freedom of expression. Remember the ACLU defended the right of Nazis to march, freedom of speech is worth defending even when you disagree with what is being said because without freedom of speech all other rights become moot.
0
costabiusMar 31, 2026
+24
Because banning something called "conversion therapy" when it is just someone saying "Jesus thinks being gay is bad m'kay" is infringing on their first amendment rights.
Probably a good decision,
It doesn't ban classifying the abusive practices that so called "conversion therapists" use as child abuse and prosecuting it as such.
You can't ban a belief or an expression of a belief but you sure as hell can prosecute abuse. You can pull medical licenses from therapists performing abusive conversion therapy. And you can hold "therapists" liable for malpractice.
24
LunaLoveslyMar 31, 2026
+15
Tell that to the teachers being punished for speaking about LGBT issues. Rules for thee
15
ratione_materiaeApr 1, 2026
+1
Not how the first amendment works
Teachers in their professional capacity are held to different standards. Lunalovesly the private individual can call people the n-word as much he likes and the government can’t do shit about it. Mr. Lunalovesly the teacher cannot do that, particularly in the classroom.
1
6a6566663437Apr 1, 2026
+6
The exact same thing applies to medical professionals like therapists. When acting as a therapist, they are held to a higher standard than when speaking as an individual.
6
ratione_materiaeApr 1, 2026
+2
Addressed in the ruling. Did you really think SCOTUS wouldn’t think of that
> Colorado and the dissent close by asking us to analogize the State’s law to traditional tort malpractice claims. See Brief for Respondents 25–26; post, at 27–29 (opinion of Jackson, J.). But here again **the differences are impossible to ignore. In a traditional malpractice action, liability attaches only if the plaintiff shows, among other things, that he has suffered an injury caused by the defendant’s breach of the applicable duty of care.** See, e.g., Day v. Johnson, 255 P.3d 1064, 1068–1069 (Colo. 2011). Those kinds of “[e]xacting proof requirements,” we have observed, may “provide sufficient breathing room for protected speech.” Illinois ex rel. Madigan v. Telemarketing Associates, Inc.,538 U.S. 600, 620 (2003). Yet Colorado’s law contains nothing like them, instead threatening individuals with fines, probation, and the loss of their licenses simply for expressing a particular view. See §§12–245–202(3.5), 12–245–224(1)(t), 12–245–225. Nor does Colorado’s law allow clients to consent to practices that depart from the prevailing standard of care, while malpractice law sometimes does. See Restatement (Third) of Torts: Medical Malpractice §11 (2024); Schneider v. Revici, 817 F.2d 987, 995 (CA2 1987).
2
6a6566663437Apr 1, 2026
+2
I'm not talking about malpractice suits.
There's *a lot* of state medical regulations that restrict what a medical professional can and can not do while treating a patient that are not malpractice suits.
If I think I will be cured by taking LSD and my doctor thinks I'll be cured by taking LSD and wants to give it to me, the state does not allow it.
If I think my therapist is really hot, and she thinks I'm really hot, the state will revoke her license if we have sex.
2
6a6566663437Apr 1, 2026
+8
>You can pull medical licenses from therapists performing abusive conversion therapy
No, you can't. That's literally what this case was about.
You also apparently don't know that the SCOTUS ruled it's legal to force abortion providers to give an anti-abortion speech to their patients that's full of lies and violates the beliefs of the provider.
This is an extremely large pile of bullshit disguised as a decision.
8
Aggressive_Manner531Mar 31, 2026
+11
It should be banned based on the false premise that homosexuality is a problem that requires therapy. Medical psychological practices based on false premises should be banned, just like the sales of snake oil.
11
costabiusMar 31, 2026
+8
Sure. So ban them by declaring they have no medical/psychological efficacy by your state medical board. Then, if you are a licensed medical professional, and you want to keep your license, you will not practice them. If the "therapy" itself is coercive or abusive to the patient, that is already illegal prosecute it that way.
When you reduce it to the essentials, everybody's religious practices are ridiculousness based on false pretenses, and church next door will be happy to tell you which ones of yours are wrong. However, everybody's personal ridiculousness is protected from legislation banning it by the constitution.
8
Aggressive_Manner531Apr 1, 2026
+5
So called conversion therapy is fraud. Very harmful fraud. It us fraud first and foremost based upon the premise that homosexuality is a defect that needs to be corrected. Fraud is not permitted or protected by the United States Constitution. The Supreme Court has unequivocally stated that the First Amendment does not shield fraud. While the First Amendment protects broad categories of speech, it does not protect fraudulent representations, such as lies used to obtain money or property. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Key points regarding the Constitution and fraud:
• No Protection for Fraud: The Supreme Court in Illinois v. Telemarketing Associates (2003) stated the First Amendment does not protect fraudulent speech.
• Unprotected Speech Exception: Fraud, including false advertising and scams, falls under the narrow exceptions to free speech that the government can regulate, such as defamation, perjury, and speech integral to criminal conduct.
• Commercial & Legal Context: Courts have consistently held that the First Amendment does not permit individuals to use free speech as a defense for fraud, including in business transactions or securities fraud. [2, 3, 5, 6, 7]
While some forms of false speech can be protected under the First Amendment, intentionally deceptive acts aimed at causing harm or illicit gain are not. [7, 8]
5
MeasureDoEventThingApr 1, 2026
+2
You can ban expression of a belief \*to a child\*.
2
turb0_encapsulatorApr 1, 2026
+3
child abuse is fine as long as it's verbal. someone should let every CPS department in America know since the precedent has now been established.
3
NatalieVonCatteMar 31, 2026
+15
After the allies freed the camps in Nazi Germany, they threw the gays and lesbians and other queer people back in prison.
We will have to demonstrate and demand and fight for every scrap of tolerance forever, because something always matters more than us.
“Parental rights”
Another cause.
The magisterial purity of the law.
Religious freedom.
By default, a bigot has more freedom to hate us than we do to exist as ourselves.
The short answer to that question?
Magneto was right.
15
Heavy_Milk2757Mar 31, 2026
+7
> After the allies freed the camps in Nazi Germany, they threw the gays and lesbians and other queer people back in prison.
I did not know this, this is *horrific*.
Do you know of any good resources to learn more about this?
If we don't fight for trans rights, we're fucked. I wish more people were aware of this.
7
sapphicsandwichApr 1, 2026
+1
It's even crazier than that. If you go to the camp Dachau, there is a memorial memorializing "all" of the victims of the holocaust. It was made by a jewish holocaust survivor. It specifically omits the pink triangle for LGBT, criminals, and asocials, as that groups was considered not a "victim" of the regime, because "victim" implies the person didn't deserve it.
https://www.kz-gedenkstaette-dachau.de/en/historical-site/virtual-tour/international-monument/
I think this is an under-recognized aspect of the holocaust. For decades afterwards it was pretty universal that people believed that some people DID deserve every single thing the Nazis did. Torture, gas chambers, the works. People were not against the actions of the Nazis based on principles at all, people just thought that it was targeted at *some* of the wrong people and that there are some groups that SHOULD happen to.
1
KodeforbunnywudwudsMar 31, 2026
+11
Magneto was always right.
11
Vio_Mar 31, 2026
+2
No, he was not right. He understood the dangers and traps and pitfalls, and he could parse those out to his followers. But he still was a massive bioessentialist eugenics type.
2
HyperbolicalpacaApr 1, 2026
+1
>Magneto was right.
I love just chucking that in at the end lol
I can’t watch that stuff without crying because it’s just so pertinent to what queer people have to go through
1
Transient_FortidudeMar 31, 2026
+5
Just gonna say this, even as a talk therapist in conservative ass Arizona, anyone working a job that takes state money has to be able to provide competent care to anyone, anywhere on the gender or sexuality spectrum. Seeking to talk them out of their identity, is obviously not competent care.
I too am a bit baffled by this ruling...conversion isn't therapy, period.
5
RedNewzzMar 31, 2026
+8
As I understand it, the question they addressed had to do with limitations on talk therapy. The ruling suggested it was an unconstitutional violation to prevent a person from seeking conversion talk therapy from a certified professional that believes it to be valid.
Sexuality is incredibly psychologically complex. And while I personally wish everyone in the queer community total acceptance of themselves and those around them, this case seems to be about the right of somebody in distress other preferences seeking away to modify them with a processor who also has a constitutional right to agree.
The two liberal justices concurred not out of homophobia or a desire to do harm to queer youth, they seem to be supporting the right of free speech and association between the client therapist if their ideologies were aligned ... regardless of how tragic or convoluted those ideologies may be.
8
6a6566663437Apr 1, 2026
+7
If I think LSD will cure me, and my doctor thinks LSD will cure me and wants to give it to me, the government still forbids the use of LSD.
The fact that the treatment here involves using vocal cords doesn't make it any different.
7
Brandowilly420Apr 1, 2026
+2
[ Removed by Listnook ]
2
ConditionHoliday2844Mar 31, 2026
+2
So did anyone read the dissent? Might be interesting.
2
DJGlennWMar 31, 2026
+3
I don't support conversion therapy, but because this case was brought by a religious group, I guess they thought the First Amendment applied:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or *prohibiting the free exercise thereof...*"
3
pooptubsApr 1, 2026
+2
Because if conversion therapy is illegal, that paves the way for a terribly backwards state to ban gender affirming therapy.
It’s a double edged sword held by a jester country.
To all my LGBTQIA+ friends, the word is better with you in it.
2
FollowingOver1965Mar 31, 2026
+5
Lolz. When you are arguing that an 8-1 decision was awful you have clearly lost the plot.
5
frogandbanjoMar 31, 2026
+8
*Plessy* was 7-1.
Phew, good thing Brewer wasn't involved, or else you might've had to confront just how utterly worthless your position is.
8
DistrictPleasantApr 1, 2026
+1
The problem was Plessy was more the fact that a bunch of prior rulings had established the idea that the Constitution can enforce equal rights under the law but it can’t determine social distinctions. This obviously is a terrible rationale but it didn’t appear out of nowhere. It’s drew heavily from established precedent like Pace vs Alabama or Bradwell vs Illinois
1
LabRat_XMar 31, 2026
-4
This decision legalized child abuse. That's what makes it awful.
-4
Plastic-Librarian253Mar 31, 2026
+8
If the decision was 8-1 then perhaps it wasn't an awful ruling at all. Sometimes good laws or good rights have some unfortunate consequences.
8
6a6566663437Apr 1, 2026
+4
No, it's still awful.
Dobbs and Casey make it legal to force abortion providers to give an anti-abortion speech to their patients.
This ruling is the exact opposite, but only applies to talk therapy by anti-LGBT Christians.
4
frogandbanjoMar 31, 2026
+4
Perhaps, but I stand firmly by the position that an 8-0 (one recusal) decision in *Chiafalo* was dead f****** wrong, and, funny enough, the majority opinion was written by Kagan. She's really not that great.
Indeed, it was such an epic failure of an opinion that Justice *Thomas*' concurrence, while also wrong, was actually *clearer and to his point* compared to Kagan's opinion.
We should do as SCOTUS allegedly does: take them as they come.
4
quayle-manMar 31, 2026
+4
Read what they said. I don’t agree with conversion therapy, but I get the point they’re making
4
dftitteringtonMar 31, 2026
+10
And the hypocrisy? Remember, this same court has sided against medical professionals and pro-queer therapies.
10
DrivesInCirclesMar 31, 2026
+5
I can't get my head around how the same court gave us Dobbs.
These asshats are giving fascism it's cake.
5
quayle-manApr 1, 2026
+3
The court ruled under Dobbs that abortion isn’t protected under the constitutional argument of privacy rights, but others are allowed to remake the case for abortion protections under a stronger supporting argument. It’s not dead in the water, it was just struck down and resent back to the states until another federal law or court case changes things again.
3
DrivesInCirclesApr 1, 2026
+3
I'm familiar with the ruling, yes. It was just as fucked up as this one, for the same kinds of reasons. This case, also, was "just sent back" until the next round of decisions bubbles up to the point where SCOTUS thinks they can move the needle even further with a "kick it back" argument.
3
opinionsareusMar 31, 2026
+2
Looks like "free speech" that can harm people is an exception in this instance. How is it that one cannot shout "fire!" in a theater to cause a panic, but can permit speech that forces or suggests scientifically proven harmless therapy on a naive patient. This is how law get fucked over by nutcases. Massive disappointment in Kagan and Sotomayor.
2
JusAxinQuestunsApr 1, 2026
+2
I had the same initial reaction, but it might have actually been the right thing to do.
And to be clear, Conversion "therapy" is trash, I'm not defending it, no therapist anywhere should be practicing it.
However, the ruling may have protected a lot more than the right to attempt using it. If this ban had been upheld there would be literally nothing to stop red states from banning gender affirming care or any form of talk therapy they determined to be against their standards. Utah could ban all harm-reduction approaches towards substance use disorder.
We should work tirelessly to make sure that nobody chooses to practice Conversion therapy or takes it seriously as a potential patient, but giving the right for individual states to determine what is or is not proper care isn't the way to go about it.
And I'd like to see somebody retry abortion bans along this axis as well, the court now has their own precedent seeming to invalidate the logic that overturned Roe that could be worth new legal challenge.
2
melodypowersApr 1, 2026
+1
100%
FWIW, I do think that state licensing organizations can have policies that state that conversion therapy is unethical. But it should be policed by those groups and not by the government.
Again, conversion therapy is both harmful and ineffective. No one should practice it. But there shouldn't be a law against it.
1
AgitatorsAnonymousApr 1, 2026
+2
I disagree here. There has to be a law against it precisely because if it's not illegal, then in red states it will be used by conservative parents to abuse their children.
That's the current nature of the republican ran states. These things have to be illegal because Republicans literally cannot help themselves and their voters will use conversion therapy on kids.
2
JusAxinQuestunsApr 1, 2026
+1
I respect your disagreement, but I'm curious what you think more specifically about the legality of bans.
I'm not saying that republicans won't try to use this to attempt to force straightness on their kids, nor am I saying that won't do material harm to those children and that is awful, but what if the supreme court ruled the opposite way?
What do you think those same republicans would do with gender affirming care? Then we're not only talking about conversion therapy being used on kids with parents foolish enough to try to force heteronormativity, but also kids with neutral or even supportive parents having no option for care they need, and there's no telling how far the worse states could take that.
Like, this ruling means individual therapists can practice this phony medicine, and that sucks, but upholding bans would mean red states could make it literally the ONLY option by banning pretty much everything else. Which of those two options sounds worse?
1
melodypowersApr 1, 2026
+1
But there are many, many therapies and medical procedures that are ineffective and dangerous. So much so that there is a term for it: Potentially Harmful Therapies (PHT). And we don't have laws for those. Scared straight and recovered memory probably have more victims than conversion therapy.
1
AgitatorsAnonymousApr 1, 2026
+1
And there are still programs like them that cause significant abuse and trauma. They are also usually court ordered and of course the foot print is bigger the population they deal with is larger. That isn't really an excuse or apples to apples comparison, to justify conversion therapy to remain legal.
Conversion therapy is something that parents force their children into. There is even less legal oversight than places like Scared Straight had.
1
JusAxinQuestunsApr 1, 2026
+1
There's even an argument that it straight up violates the ACA code of ethics: "A.1.c. Counseling Plans
Counselors and their clients work
jointly in devising counseling plans
that offer reasonable promise of
success and are consistent with the
abilities, temperament, developmental
level, and circumstances of clients.
Counselors and clients regularly re-
view and revise counseling plans to
assess their continued viability and
effectiveness, respecting clients’ freedom of choice"
That "offer reasonable promise of success" is key. If you undergo conversion therapy, it doesn't work, and then you can point to all the readily available data demonstrating that it doesn't work, you'd have the grounds for a board complaint and possibly cost the clinician their license. There are other ethical rules it likely violates, but that one is closest to the top. (except in cases where it's coerced by family or the counselor themselves. The number one ethical code of the ACA is Autonomy.)
1
bensquirrelMar 31, 2026
+2
They understand basic Con Law.
2
Imaginary_Hamster847Mar 31, 2026
I'd love for you to explain how KBJ is incorrect, here.
0
Skittle69Mar 31, 2026
+2
This is a very charged topic, especially with the rise of attacks on the rights of LGBTQ+ people in the US but I hope people remember what goes into court decisions.
Recall the courts' decision against Bidens student loan forgiveness, he couldn't do it under the act he was trying to do, not that loan forgiveness itself was wrong. In the same way, these justices, at least the liberal ones, aren't saying banning conversion therapy is wrong, just the law colorado had is.
Of course, it's entirely possible these judges would try to rule against this bad or loan forgiveness or any other thing that might actually help people no matter what but that's a different conversation than whether this case specifically is one that needs to be questioned.
2
6a6566663437Apr 1, 2026
+2
Recall the courts decisions in Dobbs and Casey that made it legal to force abortion providers to give an anti-abortion speech to their patients.
And realize that there is no nobility here. They were upset that bigotry was illegal. The SCOTUS has been a complete sham for decades.
2
LunaLoveslyMar 31, 2026
+1
Because the court is corrupt. Conversion therapy is okay and protected free speech but if a teacher speaks about LGBT issues that's punishable.
1
dftitteringtonMar 31, 2026
+5
Exactly. You are free to be anti-queer, but all pro-queer free speech is curbed.
5
labuzanMar 31, 2026
+1
This should be handled by the medical associations and state licensing agencies.
Having the legislature dictate how medical professionals do their jobs is not a path we want to go down, for many reasons.
Opening us up all kinds of bad laws based on precedent.
1
Western_Ad_8028Apr 1, 2026
+1
Huh, can't wait to see how this turns out
1
Hour-Two-4760Apr 1, 2026
+1
I read the article and it's worse and stupider than I expected.
1
kdash6Apr 1, 2026
+1
The whole viewpoint discrimination thing is BS because no one is trying to turn straight kids gay, and the Supreme Court already said that it's okay for states to ban mentions of gay people under Florida's Don't say Gay laws. So they are actually engaging in viewpoint discrimination.
1
MrPatienceXApr 1, 2026
+1
Because it’s packed with religious nut jobs.
1
bigedthebadMar 31, 2026
+1
Can someone ELI5 this decision and what it does please.
1
RemusShepherdMar 31, 2026
-4
There's a thing called 'conversion' therapy -- forced attempts to change a child from being LGBT to being heterosexual. Important to note that we're talking only about \*children\* here. You cannot force an adult into something like this.
Because conversion therapy is ineffective and leaves a lot of psychological trauma, many states are attempting to ban or regulate it. The Supreme Court just said they can't.
The key here, again, is that we're talking about children. Children are basically treated as the property of their parents. If their parents want to torture them with conversion therapy, the Supreme Court says that's within their right. They're also arguing that if therapy is just talking to a patient then it's free speech -- neglecting that many conversion therapists do much more than talk to children, including drugs and shock treatment.
That's a bit of a cynical explanation but I'm a bit pissed about all this.
-4
giraffevomitfactsMar 31, 2026
You don’t know what you’re talking about and didn’t read the decision.
The court didn’t rule on the legitimacy of conversion therapy — it ruled the existing law was poorly worded and restricted speech between therapists and patients, to the extent that therapists cannot even suggest to gay-presenting clients that they might be straight rather than gay and confused about their sexuality, whereas it does not prevent therapists asking straight-presenting patients whether they might be gay and confused about their sexuality. This ruling in no way endorses conversion therapy — it’s strictly a speech issue which the court is essentially asking Colorado to address when they recraft the law.
0
Mutant-CatApr 1, 2026
+2
>restricted speech between therapists and patients, to the extent that therapists cannot even suggest to gay-presenting clients that they might be straight rather than gay and confused about their sexuality
This is completely incorrect.
The law only bans therapists from trying to change their patients gender or sexual orientation.
The law specifically says that helping a patient to explore their identity is NOT conversion therapy.
2
giraffevomitfactsApr 1, 2026
Eight out of nine legal scholars explicitly agree with me and disagree with you.
0
Zephod03Mar 31, 2026
+1
Yeah Guess who the one dissenting voice was.
1
Ugh-screen-nameMar 31, 2026
-1
So the Supreme Court legalized child abuse…. As long as the parents said “God told me to…”
Paving the way for adult reeducation camps like those in Russia and China.
-1
meltdown_popcornMar 31, 2026
100%. It's okay because an adult is doing the speaking to a forced audience.
0
Imaginary_Hamster847Mar 31, 2026
-3
Liberal justices are easily swayed by bad faith conservative arguments that make the right sounding noises.
-3
OnlyRise9816Mar 31, 2026
-5
America will always come together to hurt us gays. Dems only act like allies to use us.
-5
steepletonMar 31, 2026
Dem leadership. Progressives are raging at them
0
JimLeonardMar 31, 2026
Money talks
0
OnlyMamaKnowsMar 31, 2026
-1
Many people are saying this court is illegitimate
-1
turtle75377Mar 31, 2026
-4
Beacuse liberals at the end of the day believe that rules are more important that fighting facism and for peoples rights.
While conservatives can and do just make shit up to change the constitution as they see fit. Most of the liberal justices still think the rules matter.
One knows they don't.
-4
JagmeetSingh2Mar 31, 2026
Maybe cause we as a society have given the courts way too much power and influence thinking they are uniquely intelligent and rational when time and time again it is shown they are as bad as the average person compared to experts in whatever field they are muddling in.
0
stuffitystuffApr 1, 2026
It was remanded back down to the lower court. It's not a done deal, afaict.
190 Comments