And then when Japan surrended they returned Taiwan to the Republic of China (what we know as Taiwan today).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Declaration
The CCP has never had jurisdiction over Taiwan.
44
FriendshipOnly6663 days ago
+54
Technically people’s republic of China is officially still at war with the republic of China, there has never been a peace treaty signed so the civil war is officially still ongoing.
54
Eclipsed8302 days ago
-16
Ended from Taiwan's perspective many decades ago...
-16
FriendshipOnly6662 days ago
+14
No, even from Taiwans perspective they are officially still in the civil war.
14
SkywalkerTC2 days ago
-6
Nothing is more official than what the people want in a democracy, especially for this very topic. It's so for Greenland; it's so for Taiwan.
And there's no legitimacy in insisting on a take that puts everyone's life in Taiwan in danger.
And just for fun, if we go by your point that civil war still persists, that would mean CCP is still the rebel army, and shouldn't be a member of the UN.
But as we all know, PRC (controlled by CCP) represents China in UN right now. This is a direct contradiction to your take on the persisting civil war.
-6
Eclipsed8302 days ago
-14
Definitely not. From Taiwan's perspective, the civil war officially ended in 1991 when the National Assembly abolished the Temporary Provisions against the Communist Rebellion, and then President Lee declared it the end of the Mobilization for Suppression of the Communist Rebellion.
-14
FriendshipOnly6662 days ago
+13
I’m sorry you are just factually incorrect. Yes the fighting has ceased at present. But officially, there has never been a treaty to end the war, the civil war is officially still ongoing.
13
Eclipsed8302 days ago
-9
There has never been a treaty because PRC refuses to sit down and sign one... But again, from Taiwan's perspective, it is over... We are no longer in a state of war.
-9
FriendshipOnly6662 days ago
+7
Why would the PRC refuse to sit down and sign one when they won the civil war, any peace negotiations would be beneficial to prc as it would be to negotiate Taiwans surrender. Taiwan refuses to surrender. There have been talks but never been a consensus.
I think you mean to say fighting is over, but the civil war is officially still ongoing.
7
Eclipsed8302 days ago
+3
From PRC's position, the civil war is still happening which is why they refuse... They don't get anything from agreeing the civil war is over, they'd just lose territory they claim.
From ROC's position, the civil war is over as is the state of war. This is the legal position since the temporary provisions have been lifted, which was what legally defined the civil war.
3
Novel_Second51512 days ago
+1
[ Removed by Listnook ]
1
SkywalkerTC2 days ago
-2
No, I'd say the opposite. The fighting persists (whether hot or cold). But any war that would break out would be a war involving multiple countries internationally, as should've been made quite obvious by now.
This is what the CCP has tried to deny for many years, but over the past two years they've lost ground on that lie quite badly. It's also the main reason for their intense hostility toward Japan (even more than before) right now.
-2
SkywalkerTC2 days ago
Yes, notably the amendment of ROC constitution in 1991. Don't mind the downvotes. They tend to do that when points are made against their agenda, which is attempting to make cross-strait matter "domestic", keeping international support out, putting Taiwan and lives of many people in imminent danger.
0
SkywalkerTC2 days ago
-9
This is a very dangerous take for the sake of Taiwan. The cross-strait matter needs to remain international (which is a fact as of now, whether you like it or not) for Taiwan to be safe. Your take is still very arguable. And we can't ignore the 1991 ROC constitutional amendments too.
All these given, I see no legitimate reason to insist on a take that puts everyone's lives in Taiwan in imminent danger. We all know Taiwan can't survive by itself neighboring a global superpower.
And the most important thing is what the people want right now in any country. This supercedes historical points, and definitely supercedes what the CCP wants.
-9
FriendshipOnly6662 days ago
+7
Umm sorry to inform you but I’m just a Listnookor lol, my takes have zero effect on anything.
>the most important thing is what the people want right now. This supersedes historical points.
So I suppose you support russias invasion of crimea and Donbas now then? Since Russia displaced all the opposition and now people in those areas wants to be part of Russia.
On the same vein, if China invaded Taiwan and displaced all the natives, everyone left is pro-ccp, would you now say “history doesn’t matter” everyone there is pro-ccp now so the displaced Taiwanese opinions doesn’t matter anymore.
7
SkywalkerTC2 days ago
-2
This displacement is part of the invasion. It's the goal of regimes like CCP and Russia alike. They also know well that nothing is more official than what the people want. But the way they achieve this is by either forcing people to surrender to their agenda by violence or insert enough of their own people. All part of the invasion.
So how in the world do my words tell you I support any invasion?? Are you projecting yourself?
The fact that you even try to play word games on me only tells me you're dead set on your rhetoric that puts Taiwan in imminent danger and is trying to spread that rhetoric.
-2
Stoned_urf2 days ago
+27
It's Chinese people all the way down, dude.
When the KMT escaped to Taiwan, they were still Chinese who had gone over from mainland China, just a different political party.
The real difference between the People's Republic of China and the Republic of China is really just the political entity. It's not like people are talking about the Taiwan Natives.
It's not like KMT and CCP are two completely different races/groups of people.
27
ausmomo2 days ago
+10
Yep, and they've lived as a seperate country for generations now.
10
DirectionMurky55262 days ago
+7
By that you mean like two whole generations. I've taken care of old people at nursing homes who remember fleeing to Taiwan from the mainland.
7
ausmomo2 days ago
+4
Yes, which is infinitely more time than the CCP has had jurisdiction over Taiwan, which is exactly 0 seconds.
4
Eclipsed8302 days ago
+3
Most Taiwanese people did not move to Taiwan with the KMT... Those people are a minority.
Most Taiwanese people were Japanese speaking Han people when the KMT came here. Those that came over made up less than 15% of the total population by 1950. Most Taiwanese people can trace their roots to the island by a few hundred years.
3
Jia-the-Human2 days ago
+5
Two whole generations for the people who escaped communism add in two or three generations for those who lived there before and lived during the Japanese period of Taiwan, then consider the people there before Japan took Taiwan had very little contact with Mainland and was during imperial Qing dynasty, and might have been there for a few more generations.
At this point why aren’t people pushing for US reuniting with the UK under such flimsy arguments as “ethnic unity” and speaking the same language?
5
Eclipsed8302 days ago
+2
*Taiwanese
Most of us here in Taiwan do not identifying as Chinese anymore... That term has been poisoned decades ago
2
h00dedronin2 days ago
+6
Legally both the PRC and Taiwan still claim the entirety of China as being rightfully theirs, Taiwan included.
The ruling party is leaning more on the side of just solidifying the modern Taiwanese identity that already exists as an independent entity, while the KMT favours reunification with the mainland, which is closer to their original ideals.
There’s definitely some meddling by the PRC, but the KMT seeking reunification with China is not such a crazy idea.
6
Eclipsed8302 days ago
+3
KMT does not favor unification... And saying so would be a guaranteed way they never win another election.
3
h00dedronin2 days ago
+3
Oh yeah I think you’re right. My apologies
3
DirectionMurky55262 days ago
-5
The modern Taiwanese identity came as a result of the democratic movement against the KMT military dictatorship on the island. It's less than 50 years old. To anyone older than a millennial, it's natural to see why de-Sinicization is absurd when they used to identify as the "real" Chinese culture uncorrupted by communism.
-5
Eclipsed8302 days ago
+6
The modern Taiwanese identity existed before the KMT came here...
6
Jia-the-Human2 days ago
+6
Who used to? The dictatorial elite who had freshly arrived after fleeing communism? Or the majority population that had been under Japanese occupation for about 50 years and didn’t speak mandarin?
6
hextreme20072 days ago
The CCP did not have jurisdiction over Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou... until it did.
0
ausmomo2 days ago
+2
Sure. Let me know if/when it ever gains jurisdiction over Taiwan.
2
Ohthatsnotgood2 days ago
+9
Funnily enough it was actually Japanese forces invading in 1874 which caused the Qing Empire to subjugate the rest of the indigenous people and “unite” the island under the colonial government. The Qing didn’t claim the entire island until after this short conflict.
9
antivnom3 days ago
+32
China has found their version of Orban.
32
Stoned_urf2 days ago
-17
It's okay, China will never adapt to a similar political system that's currently ruining the US and the World.
-17
themathmajician2 days ago
+9
It's almost like people should get to choose. If China really wants to be different from the US, giving up military leverage to accomplish its expansionist goals would be a good place to start.
9
jayc4282 days ago
-1
Yeah I never understood the constant glazing people do of China. I don’t care how great they want to make it seem, at the end of the day people have no rights of self determination, half a billion people living very poor outside the cities, few hundred million migrant workers in factories in exploitive conditions. In the US, we fucked up big time but at least we have the choice of f****** it up on our own and hopefully the chance to fix it as well.
-1
Valuable-Shirt-41293 days ago
+27
Good to know that the Kuomintang is pro-China now after years of tensions with the Communist Party of China.
27
Noname_24113 days ago
+45
The full name of KMT is quite literally Chinese Nationalist Party.
45
Pokemon_Name_Rater3 days ago
+20
I mean were the KMT ever anti-China, what 國 are they the 國民黨 of, exactly?
Anti-Communist for much of their existence, sure, but they know which side their bread is buttered. HK model of a degree of autonomy but "governed by patriots" would mean most of the KMT could probably keep their jobs, status etc. if Taiwan gets taken over, and in the short term they probably consider the promise of better economic growth and stability through more integration with China as more attractive than it was towards the end of Ma's term, or at least not complete anathema to electoral success.
20
Jia-the-Human2 days ago
+4
They wouldn’t just keep their jobs, they would have a better guarantee of it, elections would become a farce and KMT would jus get semi permanent positions
4
Rensku2 days ago
+1
So in a sense, back to form. Kuomintang reigns while tangwai are the exception that confirms the rule.
1
musical8thnotes2 days ago
+3
Most of them wouldn't keep their jobs. They would all be replaced by the CCP bootlickers because most of the right KMT actually still believes in the Three Principles of the People, as opposed to Socialism with Chinese Characteristics defined by the puppet left KMT on the Mainland.
Most of these morons who support reunification are the types that we call "So Blue they're actually Red".
3
SunChungShan3 days ago
-2
Sucks that it's now either Pro-China or Pro-US. If only Taiwan could have nukes. Oh wait, they almost did until a scientist defected to the US and got the project shut down
-2
lensandscope2 days ago
+8
Looks like he was a colonel who was a double agent.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/01/asia/taiwan-cia-informant-nuclear-weapons-chang-hsien-yi-intl-hnk/
8
SunChungShan2 days ago
+2
And of course he now lives in the US
2
hahaha013572 days ago
+1
Nukes won't matter too much in the long term. Reclaiming Taiwan is a national restoration project dating back to 1895. It's revanchism baked into the national psyche of 1.4 billion people far longer than what the French had for Alsace-Lorraine. And France was willing to sacrifice a whole generation of young men back in 1914 for that piece of clay.
1
SunChungShan2 days ago
+3
But it would deter an invasion. I mean look at the countries being attacked by the US and Russia. They don't have nukes.
3
hahaha013572 days ago
+1
Deterrence only works when the costs outweigh the benefits. What kind of cost outweighs national pride? In 1914 and 1939, the world has shown that a country can be ground to dust and sacrifice double digit percentages of its people before its pride can be subdued.
1
Ultra_Metal2 days ago
+2
The CCP is that imperialist force.
2
Imbsiouse2 days ago
+1
Since you defend Israel so much, this is like blaming Jews for WW2
1
Ultra_Metal2 days ago
+1
Nonsense
1
Spirited-Willow-27682 days ago
-5
Right? WTF? Everyday CCP threatens their neighbors, arm invasion of Taiwan in their state media, support Russia for invasion of Ukraine, and somehow there is another imperialist force?
-5
Clearwater_91962 days ago
-14
Lol. What happened to the native Americans again?
-14
Ultra_Metal2 days ago
+4
What happened to the people of Tibet, Hong Kong and Xinjiang? They are being brutally oppressed by the CCP regime.
4
danaxa2 days ago
+1
A bit ironic to use Hongkong as an example of Chinese imperialism when the British Empire took it from the Qing
1
Ultra_Metal2 days ago
+5
China and the UK signed a deal and China violated that deal by destroying democracy in Hong Kong and imposing its own tyrannical rule. "Two systems, one country" was a lie.
5
danaxa1 day ago
+1
Yes China violated judicial independence of Hongkong, I’m not here to defend that. Though saying it is not two systems is an exaggeration. You can still do a lot of things in Hongkong today where you can’t do in mainland China, like going on google.
Anyway, it is not “imperialism”. I don’t think many people know what this word means
1
Ultra_Metal1 day ago
+3
Yes, it is imperialism because violated the two systems, one country rule that they agreed to with the UK. China imposed its tyrannical rule on another people against their will.
3
TonyPuzzle2 days ago
+2
The Qing itself was an imperialist power.
2
danaxa2 days ago
+2
Who said they weren’t? The point is, Han(Chinese) people were the aboriginals in Hongkong, and that area had been part of the Chinese realm, be it Qing or earlier dynasties for over a millennium before the british took it for themselves
2
squarexu2 days ago
I mean one of the founding principles of the KMT was recovery of Taiwan. The founder of the KMT went to Taiwan several times when it was under Japanese occupation and wrote extensively about plans of how to get back Taiwan.
0
Eclipsed8302 days ago
-6
This is a flat out lie.
Sys went to Taiwan a total of 4 times, most of those times never leaving his boat. The entire purpose of his trips were to raise funds from the Japanese government to support his revolution over Qing.
"Founding principle" of KMT to recover Taiwan, shit. 😂😂
-6
musical8thnotes2 days ago
+8
Nope.
The Treaty of Shimonoseki was a theft of Chinese territory by the Empire of Japan and returned to the legal control of the Republic of China under the Cairo Declaration and the Treaty of Taipei.
The Abdication Edict of the Xuantong Emperor legally transferred all sovereignty and jurisdiction of the Qing Dynasty to the Republic of China, including rights to all stolen lands as part of the unequal treaties.
Take your ignorance and shove it.
8
Eclipsed8302 days ago
+2
What? 😂😂 Put the drugs down... We are talking about things SYS said... You are talking about the Treaty of Taipei which was signed like 40 years after his death.
SYS position was not that Taiwan must become part of China again, but that Taiwan's status must be determined outside of imperialism.
2
musical8thnotes2 days ago
+1
*You* are talking about what SYS said. Or more accurately, what he didn't say. Taiwan's status is that it is a land stolen by Japan from China during the Age of Imperialism and rightfully returned under the terms of international law.
Stop drinking the green kool-aid and start going back to school to learn the truth. You can have your path to a Taiwan Republic, but start acknowledging the truth.
1
Eclipsed8302 days ago
+4
Why don't you read the comment chain you are replying to?
Yes, we are talking about what SYS said.
>I mean one of the founding principles of the KMT was recovery of Taiwan. The founder of the KMT went to Taiwan several times when it was under Japanese occupation and wrote extensively about plans of how to get back Taiwan.
4
Germanpaddyo2 days ago
+1
I admit that I am not Taiwanese, and thus, my only concern is avoiding a cataclysmic war. Anything that makes said war less likely is welcome in my mind. If this can strengthen the current status quo, then I welcome it.
68 Comments