Iran's proposal to collect tolls in the Strait of Hormuz violates trade norms

International law is dead. It was always fake but now we have stopped pretending.

Are we still pretending there are "norms" in this fucked up timeline?

Can they just call it a tariff and it be ok?

Aren’t there shipping lanes through the strait that aren’t Iran’s waters?

The US has already destroyed all norms in terms of international trade and relations.

There is no way on Earth the Israeli's, UAE, Saudi's, etc. are going to have a resurgent Iran on their own dime. They will sabotage any ceasefire to make sure that doesn't happen.

Oh look, the consequences of our own actions

International norms broken? How about attacking a country unprovoked?

No, not the norms!

Norm's not here anymore. He went home. He got tired of everyone ignoring him so he said, "F*** it! I'm outta here!".

Thing thing is, when big countries start ignoring international laws, this becomes the norm.

If you're saying to a civilian vessel "pay up or we blow you up" then it's more like extortion or highway robbery

How much longer are we gonna pretend than international laws and norms still exist. Only thing that matters anymore is strength.

If countries can now charge for passage through straits near their coast, this could get funny real fast.

is that violation more or less than unilaterally assassinating another country's leaders, I have some questions about these totally real and not made up rules

It won't happen and we all know this.

No such thing as "norms" anymore I'm afraid, we're living through a global trade shake up that will take years to decades to level set before we see any norms again

Well, the Gulf states or the US are certainly not going to be giving them billions in reparations, so if this toll is what it takes for them to rebuild from the unjust war we subjected them to, so be it.

Putin started by tearing up international treaties, agreements and natural resources. Trump weaponized trade. Iran is merely following an example.

Well bombing a country because you don’t like it’s leader violates the norms too.

Okay. Bombing civilians, and tariffing the entire world, and destroying bridges are also against international law. Very um selective with who you apply those rules too huh?

"Norms" Seems like we are well beyond that at this point.

Iranian proposal violates norms, ok. Trumps proposal to collect tolls instead of Iran, does that violate norms too?

I don't think bombing Iran and threatening to wipe out their power and desalinization plants followed international norms either.

Cool story bro. Now pay that victory fee.

REMINDER: the strait was open with no tolls in place until Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu decided to bomb Iran unprovoked.

Bombing a school full of children is also against norms

Let’s start with trumps tariffs first

Oh soooo that's why Trump wants to collect them now. He heard a word that tickled his fancy.

ah doiiiii

[ Removed by Listnook ]

Trump wants to collect toll along with Iran. America is beginning to look like the hegemonic terrorist the Islamist extremists have always painted us to be. And to think, Trump supporters, including the spinless Japanese PM, advocated for him to win the Nobel Peace Prize

I honestly wonder how many people in the west think Iran can economically recover without tolls.

I would say Israel and the US' unprovoked bombing of Iran also violated trade norms. The bombing of an all girls primary school DEFINITELY violated norms.

If only there was some way that this didn't have to happen... There was a reason why no other American president in the past 40 years was astoundingly stupid enough to start a war with Iran.

And I love how Trump is all in on it. Yeah let’s collect on the straights together.

Perhaps the US and Israel shouldn’t have started this illegal war. Make dumbass decisions, live with your dumbass consequences.

Just asking - how would tolls in the Strait be different than tolls at the Panama Canal?

Pretty sure modern "Norms" went out the window when the world collectively began ignoring war crimes.

This is the Iranian Art of the Deal

100-150 ships transit Hormuz per day under normal circumstances. They set up a system under which, at 2 million per ship nominally shared with Oman, Iran collects $36.5-54.7 *billion* per year. Double that if they don’t share. That’s a bit below to a bit above *adding 10-20% to their normal GDP* (approx $450 billion in 2024), *with essentially zero effort/added expense*. Doesn’t take an economic genius to see why Iranian officials are calling this a win (even without considering the other points, which *all* lean in Iran’s favor), but there’s also *no way* that’s going to stick. That, combined with the other point removing restrictions on uranium enrichment, means that instead of removing any Iranian nuclear threat, Trump has instead cleared out all the speed bumps and fully funded an aggressive nuclear development program, should the Iranian government choose to direct the money that way. And he did it on the heels of plausibly threatening to wholly eliminate the country, civilians and all, providing a pretty f****** fantastic rhetorical argument for the Iranian government in favor of needing one. No, a nuclear armed Iran is not a good idea. This is not how preventing that happens.

Norms? What?

Maybe but I really don't think there are any "norms" left anymore.

\>>Plus, by lowering oil prices, it would eliminate a multibillion-dollar geopolitical windfall for Russia, whose oil is suddenly in greater demand despite sanctions.<< This would have been obvious to anyone with a brain, except that's not how the trump administration works. trump would lose tic-tac-toe to a chicken.

Go ahead and charge the tolls! Let's bring back the Green New Deal and wean off of oil like we were going to before MAGA crawled out of their holes and worsened our dependence on oil

Iran may have got the idea from the Suez Canal toll. The [SCA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Canal_Authority) charges ships up to a few hundred thousand dollars (per wiki) each, but it also maintains and repairs the canal, associated buildings and equipment. The Strait of Hormuz requires no maintenance.

Merciful heavens! Won’t somebody think of the trade norms?

What about trump’s proposal that *he/USA* collects tolls on Hormuz?

Don't the Suez and Panama Canals both charge for access? And historically both the Bosphorous and Oresund both charged tolls, so I don't understand what's so off about it.

Thing is, prior to this utterly idiotic war at the behest of Israel, the US was able to keep countries like Iran in a state of check simply because everyone saw the firepower of the US in the post 9/11 war and that was a huge deterrent. Now the US has been proven a paper tiger (largely due to utterly incompetent leadership rather than solely shortcomings of munitions and military capability). What had kept so many regions safe for fear of massive retaliation is now gone forever. What's to keep Iran from funding attacks within the borders of a much broader swathe of nations? They "knew better" previously, but this will only leave them emboldened. Tolls on the strait are child's play compared to the havoc they could unleash, especially if they now develop a nuke, thanks to the folly of Netanyahu and Trump (and all the Republicans enabling him).

Iran will leverage whatever it can in the face of threats to bomb it into non-existence. Why is anyone surprised by this? Do you think you can assassinate their leaders and kill their children and they'll be worrying about whether their responses are 'legal'? Don't expect them to play by the rules when you don't observe them yourself.