ListNook

VanceXentan 1 day ago +3694

Anything but fix the hellish work environment huh

3694

dementeddabbler 1 day ago +1142

Seriously, they would rather go through a national apocalypse than have a sane work culture. It’s incredible to read these headlines about Japan year after year.

1142

pitb0ss343 19 hr ago +329

I read somewhere there was a company that had a massive increase in birth rate in Japan and the only change they really made was no overtime

329

spin2winGG 17 hr ago +69

Do you have a link to that article by any chance, if true that's hilariously sad

69

CornerAgreeable4894 16 hr ago +43

Apparently the company is just a branch of dentsu

43

synapticrelease 16 hr ago +58

Happens almost everywhere. All this technology that is supposed to make things more efficient and sold to us as being a way to free up time is only seen as a way to cram in more work. We have never been a more productive society with every tool that we have imaginable yet, the work keeps piling on. Hell, the washing machine was sold to wives as a way to free up your day since laundry was such a time intensive and manual labor task and... well. you see how much more work there is now to do all of a sudden.

58

phycologist 13 hr ago +20

> Hell, the washing machine was sold to wives as a way to free up your day since laundry was such a time intensive and manual labor task and... well. you see how much more work there is now to do all of a sudden We *do* wash our clothes more often, with less hassle, and cleaner results.

20

nanobot001 22 hr ago +161

Work culture predates the long decline of fertility rates, and is a familiar canard but not the entire story nor even the most important one.

161

ThePafdy 22 hr ago +189

You know what also predates the decline in fertility? Proper birthcontrol.

189

arizonatealover 22 hr ago +87

Does that mean we get to see a human version of natural selection? Who would have thought women would think of their own needs and survival? And I'm not even being sarcastic, I find it fascinating that humans now have rights over their own fertility (similar to how in other species a female would dictate mate selection) and this is the result.

87

bamdaraddness 21 hr ago +93

Sort of but, in my experience, kind of the opposite. The people we definitely don’t want to be repopulating the country are exactly the ones who do. Look at the correlation between highest education earned and number of children (in the US).

93

lordmycal 21 hr ago +67

Idiocracy was not supposed to be this prophetic.

67

Granito_Rey 17 hr ago +26

Yes it was, that's half the point of the movie. Judge could clearly see the writing on the wall. The half that we are supposed to be emulating is the part where we work together to fix the problems. That was the real fantasy the entire time.

26

fluffy_doughnut 9 hr ago +2

Exactly. When women are given a choice, they choose not to have multiple children. Something everyone seems to ignore, I hear about economics and housing all the time while this is the reason. Maybe politicians don’t bring this up because they know you can’t just make someone to change their mind on this topic.

2

Let-s_Do_This 20 hr ago +14

Does it predate dual income work culture?

14

nanobot001 19 hr ago +18

Dual income became common in the 1980s in North America, whereas it became common in the late 1990s in Japan Work culture has been a very long standing and cultural issue that I believe has existed as long or longer than WW2

18

WhasHappenin 19 hr ago +15

Well the effect of work culture is doubled when both members of couple are working.

15

3Kayo 22 hr ago +27

Well, I guess might as well not fix it at all, right?

27

ChanceSize9153 11 hr ago +3

Lol you just described the entire premise to "Zom 100"

3

Think_Positively 20 hr ago +7

Opening the doors to immigrants would also help a ton. Japan will never do this of course, but I would absolutely help with their birth rates.

7

DefinitelyNotAliens 19 hr ago +34

Japan needs maternity and paternity leave that makes sense. You only get 6 weeks pre-birth and 8 post. The problem is, it's seen as not okay to take your full leave. So, you have to put like a 20 week parental leave and actually make a financial penalty to the business for employees to go to work before 8 weeks, so parents aren't seen as being lazy for not coming back. There's a financial disincentive for people to return early. They also then need to make all daycare free, so parents can afford it. Parents get a one-time stipend for the baby, but it's 100,000 yen, or roughly 650USD or 530 Euro. You get 15,000 yen a month until age 3. That is around 80 Euro/ 95 USD. If you want people to have babies, making it financially feasible and making it so people actually stay home with their children when they are born and not seen as "lazy" for taking parental leave would be an actual start. In 2022, only 17% of eligible men took paternity leave. In 2018, it was 6%. Of those men who take *any* leave, you see around 20% taking fewer than 5 days. Meaning, a large percentage of Japanese men will go to work literally the day after the baby is born. They have paid leave, and they will not take it. Making having children not sound miserable might help. As would providing like... enough to actually count as aid towards raising a baby. 30% of Japan lives in Tokyo. It costs 21.7M yen to raise a baby to adulthood. It's offset slightly by delivery grants (paid to hospital) and the new baby stipend and montly allowances. Bring that cost down and convince women they won't have their partners disappear immediately after the birth of the child and won't be doing it completely on their own.

34

Think_Positively 19 hr ago +24

Many countries have tried financial incentives to increase fertility rates. It hasn't worked, and it hasn't worked because the problem is quality of life, not necessarily money. If you don't have time to be a proper parent, what is the point of having kids? Having enough for a nanny or stay-at-home spouse != being a parent.

24

sh4d0ww01f 13 hr ago +6

Yeah, i am out about 10 hours a day and see my children about 2-3hours. And this is little enough that i started hating my job because why get children when you see your coworkers longer in a week than you see your spouse and kids. And in the time you are able to see your family you stilm have to do all the housework, admin your life, take personal appointments and espacialy get your children to do all the stuff they really dont want to do etc. which again shortens your fun and fullfilling family time. Its really depressing for me. And thats still way more time than others see their family.

6

MayushiiLOL 17 hr ago +4

You either don't live here or you're glossing over the fact that while maternity leave IS 6W pre + 8W post, almost every single company offers mothers childrearing leave. Childrearing leave is up until the child's first birthday, and can be extended past this as well if you can prove you didn't get a daycare spot for your child. Some companies also offer extra leave before birth (8W instead of 6W).

4

Big-News2815 18 hr ago +5

After 1 generation immigrants have the same birth rates as native born people, since they're having kids in the same economy

5

mhornberger 23 hr ago +85

>Anything but fix the hellish work environment huh I'm all for them fixing their work environment, but their fertility rate is about the same as places that are widely praised for their work-life balance, like Spain and Italy. Their fertility rate is about the same or higher than Poland, Chile, Taiwan, Thailand, Argentina, Puerto Rico, and others. It's not clear that their work-life balance is the driving reason for their low fertility rates.

85

therealslimshady1234 22 hr ago +45

>spain >work life balance Wut People work here all day and earn like 30k gross a year

45

Shotgun5250 21 hr ago +25

Gross income is only one piece of the equation. HCOL vs LCOL, healthcare, infrastructure, taxes, etc. all play large roles in affordability and work life balance. It’s why people can say we’re being priced out of having children in the US, but a person from rural Arkansas can chime in about how they only make 45k a year and live in a paid-off three-bedroom house and have 4 kids. These overgeneralized statements just rapidly devolve into Goomba fallacy here on Listnook, and people argue the same points ad nauseam.

25

GuelphEastEndGhetto 21 hr ago +12

Exactly this. [The average cost of living in Canada ($2791) is 81% more expensive than in Japan ($1545). Canada ranked 19th vs 78th for Japan in the list of the most expensive countries in the world. The average after-tax salary is enough to cover living expenses for 1.5 months in Canada compared to 1.7 months in Japan. Ranked 15th and 20th best countries to live in the world.](https://livingcost.org/cost/canada/japan) As an example. Can confirm having been in both countries recently. Also not sure about the stigma of work culture, stayed in an office district in Tokyo and there were waves of workers leaving at 5:00/5:30pm. Seemed starting times were around 9:00am. The volume of people on trains seemed to start decreasing around 6:00pm.

12

natnguyen 1 day ago +158

It’s not just that. It’s social media. It’s a f****** drug that isolates people and gives them a false sense of belonging while also feeling lonely. The fact that human sadnes/loneliness/dispair has turned into a commodity by billionaires has led to this. People are not happy, have no money, no hope for the future, no community, and therefore hide behind their phones that just perpatuate all these feelings. It’s a world problem and until we get rid of the billionaire class (or cut off their political influence) that clearly is made up of sick, miserable people, it will only get worse.

158

AnAimlessWanderer101 23 hr ago +100

That all contributes, but at the same time all evidence still points to decreasing birth rates being a byproduct of advancing societies. Education, more family planning, more things to do besides “get married and have kids.” I agree social media is a plague, but the world needs to genuinely prepare for a population decrease regardless.

100

Life_Drama7570 15 hr ago +4

in all "advancing societies", although the material conditions improved, the costs of child raising have gotten higher, along with mostly everything else. So we can not trully say this is true until we will observe a situation where the costs of living, having fun and raising children keeps constant or decreases

4

AnAimlessWanderer101 14 hr ago +4

I mean that’s not entirely true. Like even after WW2 in America - one of the most prosperous times - outside of the initial post war baby boom, birth rates continued dropping I agree we can’t see the full extent, but there have been far more indicators that it is true than that it isn’t. You talk about financial costs, but the responsibilities of being parents keep rising under modern morals and child-raising philosophies. Even if money weren’t a factor at all, parents generally can’t take the hands off approach that large families did in the past. We also have pretty good indicators of socioeconomic factors that encourage child birth - like religion and poverty. So we can draw some pretty strong conclusions from examine how those trends change. But now I’m repeating myself in the sense that it goes back to “we have far greater evidence to suggest that it’s true, rather than that we should wait and see”

4

natnguyen 23 hr ago +18

That is also true! And I think, or I hope, is related to conservative family values being less imposed on society and people being able to live the life they actually want. Having kids should not, and does not need to be, the norm.

18

Scavenger53 22 hr ago +34

The other darker side is that kids used to die... A lot. My own grandparents had 4 kids. One is my mom, the other is my uncle. There are no others. Also families had a ton of kids because they needed the labor to survive. We don't need the same labor levels today to just exist

34

selfhostrr 20 hr ago +7

Yep. Plenty of grave stones pre 1930 for large swaths of children. Striking set I saw was a mother who had 9 kids and 5 died in a range of 0-4 years old.

7

Agitated_Ad7576 19 hr ago +2

I saw one theory that said child mortality explained a lot of the war and violence back then. Mothers knew there was a good chance their baby would die and to reduce their future pain, they didn't try to bond with it (or not very much). So most everyone grew up neglected and damaged goods. I know there's still war and violence now, but back then your own army was almost as dangerous as the enemy's. Plus watching public executions was a fun activity for the whole town, including kids.

2

derkrieger 12 hr ago +3

That is a popular story but likely not true. Mothers bonded with their Children, most likely loved their Children just as they do now. The difference was death was common. It was not some horrific unlikely event, it was rampant and just a part of life. It still hurt but you knew of your kids maybe half would make it out of the toddler years and if they did their odds of surviving were actually really good. That doesn't mean they couldn't care about their young children but that was just life to them, there wasn't an alternative. As soon as vaccines came about you had families lining up to try and save their young childrens lives by getting them vaccinated. You see this still in poorer countries where child mortality is still quite high. Only comfortable safe countries like the US have had the luxury of being so safe that life saving medicine seems unnecessary because all they've ever known is life under it.

3

Snoutysensations 20 hr ago +14

Maybe not the norm for everyone, but having below replacement level fertility in any other species or ecosystem would be interpreted as a sign that something is deeply unwell. All species evolved to propagate themselves to the best of their abilities. I agree with you that finally giving humans a choice in the matter and not imposing "conservative family values" is part of what got us into this situation.

14

natnguyen 20 hr ago +6

I think our current situation is partly people not being forced into things like I said, and another part, related to your point, is that our environment is currently hostile. Conditions have not developed in a way that is favorable to create families. Just like some of my friends are happily childfree, others are choosing not to have any because of money/the state of the world in a political and environmental sense/no safety nets in most countries that promote this (free child care, long parental leave), etc. And that is the real problem.

6

alexwasashrimp 17 hr ago +7

>is that our environment is currently hostile Way less so than a century ago, plus the counties with the most hostile environment have the highest birth rates.

7

Snoutysensations 20 hr ago +4

I agree with you. This is a complex problem with many factors at play. I would argue that as a species we are not evolved to want to reproduce in our current economic and social environment. We still have the usual drives for sex and companionship but now those can be satisfied (in various ways) without having kids. Of course, the massive expense and quality of life hit of having kids nowadays doesn't make it more attractive.

4

Regemony 21 hr ago +7

It absolutely does need to be the norm, what?

7

WealthyMarmot 21 hr ago +7

People think that civilization just materialized and sustains itself by magic. Nah dog this shit takes *people* to run. Doesn’t matter how much you save for retirement if there’s no one to pay.

7

DoradoPulido2 23 hr ago +6

"Having kids" as the norm is what has continued civilization for millennia, and the reason you, specifically, exist.

6

stormrunner89 23 hr ago +20

It's no wonder how many comics are being made in that part of the year with the trope " truck-kun hit me and now I'm in a fantasy/game world with monsters. I'm so happy I'm fighting for my life against monsters and not back home!"

20

atreides78723 21 hr ago +5

How very Yuyu Hakusho…

5

Plenty_Fondant_951 14 hr ago +4

Yeh it's weird that we put hard stops on gambling and other addictive things but we allow 100 years of behavioral psychology, much of it specifically fine tuned in casinos, to be ruthlessly exploited on the modern internet for ad revenue and that's just like "yeh whatever" Make an addictive physical product that ruins lives? Illegal or highly regulated Use the exact same methods and neural circuits and just make it a digital addictive product (or entire ecosystem) , "holy shit here's a bunch of tax breaks and no regulations at all, please keep it up"

4

justthisoncepp 19 hr ago +12

Me when I don't know anything about the topic but have to spout my uninformed opinion anyways: > Anything but fix the hellish work environment huh This is happening everywhere. It's a simple consequence of education and birth control.

12

TotalBismuth 1 day ago +54

That’s just late stage capitalism. It’s starting to happen here too.

54

championchilli 23 hr ago +49

Collapsing birth rates globally are a weird thing, every example and reason you can come with to explain why, there's a counter example that shows the opposite, Japan's toxic work culture vs. Nordic work life balance, boh countries with collapsing birth rates. High education levels amongst women in western europe vs. India with low education for women also collapsing birth rates. It goes on and on. Japan was seemingly, ahead of the curve. Apart from a few African nations, birth rates are just going down everywhere and are below replacement regardless of wealth, education, culture, healthcare access, religion, you name it. I did read Korea had seen a recent uptick. But it might be a blip vs the rock bottom it was at

49

Maezel 22 hr ago +48

When animals live in a stressed environment, they don't reproduce. The stress can take many forms for us, not only environmental environmental or scarcity of food, but also social, economic, Etc. And many of these are simultaneously stressed at the same time varying on location. Also people preferences shifted. Many just don't want kids.

48

championchilli 22 hr ago +6

Yeah I like that theory.

6

beamdriver 21 hr ago +18

It's not that weird. There are a lot of factors that influence birth rates, but the main one is clearly women gaining autonomy and control over their own fertility as well as the option to do something with their lives other than being a wife and mother. The evidence for this is pretty straightforward. With some minor exceptions, the only nations that still have high fertility rates are the ones that subjugate and deny rights to women. Turns out, if you give women the right to decide whether to have children, many of them will decide not to or decide to wait and do other things before becoming a parent. That second part is key here. Plenty of women are still having babies. They're just having them later, which translates into fewer children. If you want a positive fertility rate, the majority of women have to start having children before they turn 25. That's a big lift in a modern society, no matter how parent-friendly you make it.

18

ankhes 16 hr ago +12

This is the truth that I think a lot of people (and the media) do not want to acknowledge. For thousands of years women didn’t have a choice in whether or not they became a mother or how many children they had. It was simply expected that you would get married and then have as many children as your body was able to carry before menopause or death in childbirth put an end to it. And then modern birth control and first and second wave feminism came along in the 20th century and suddenly women not only had a choice in becoming a wife or not but also in how many (or how few) children they had. Suddenly no one had to become a housewife if they didn’t want to. They didn’t have to have a dozen children before their uterus gave out. They could get an education. They could work. They could wait until they wanted a child on *their* terms instead of on their husband’s or biology’s terms. And wouldn’t you know it, when women are finally given a choice about these things, most decide that they want significantly fewer children than the economy or government would prefer. And boy oh boy does that scare the shit out of a *lot* of people. Which is why we’ve been seeing such a huge pushback against women’s rights and a wave of conservative propaganda directed at coercing women back into getting married straight out of high school and having as many babies as quickly as possible.

12

phxbimmer 22 hr ago +13

My thoughts exactly. Birth rates are declining everywhere and there’s no single factor that is the root cause, it’s a number of things like income inequality, a lack of third places for people to meet, a lack of desire to have kids, decreasing fertility due to environmental factors, etc. We can certainly try to improve conditions so that people who want children can actually have them, but at the same time, plenty of people (like myself) have no interest in reproducing no matter what the conditions, so the population will ultimately decline no matter what. Just gotta start preparing for that.

13

ramesesbolton 20 hr ago +18

>there’s no single factor that is the root cause birth control. birth control is the single factor. it used to not matter whether or not you wanted kids, you were probably going to end up with a few. now people can choose precisely when and how often they reproduce. and it turns out most people don't want more kids than they can comfortably afford and they don't want them until they're older and established. people are having the number of kids they want rather than the number of kids they happen to end up with.

18

TotalBismuth 21 hr ago +5

A lot of those countries have developed and started to taper off population-wise. Your example of India also affected. It has went through an explosive development period that has seen people’s wealth increase. This comes with decreasing birth rates as people are busy working and focusing on themselves. Other factors like carrying capacity could also be at play in big countries.

5

sjbfujcfjm 18 hr ago +3

Don’t forgot making it as difficult as possible for foreign workers and business owners to live there. Japan is going to trump route, while already have a population crisis and 4 decade stagnant economy

3

nam4am 22 hr ago +10

While the overall work environment encompasses more than just hours, the average Japanese worker actually works fairly low hours compared to other countries around the world. In 2023 they [averaged about the same hours as workers in Spain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours). And those hours have [drastically declined in every decade since 1960](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_work_environment#/media/File:Japan_annual_total_working_hour_per_worker_1950-2023.png). The idea that Japanese people are all just constantly working or something is a myth based in things that were only partially true half a century ago, not today.

10

Let-s_Do_This 20 hr ago +9

That’s a national blended average containing both full time and part time workers so it kind of masks a wide variation

9

hillswalker87 19 hr ago +2

the population boomed in the past while also having a hellish work environment. this is maybe something they'd like to work on but it's not the correct variable for population collapse.

2

Lykos1124 18 hr ago +2

and social pressures like you gotta go drink with the team or if you go on vacation, bring everyone gifts, which I get, some of that people must like there, but if I go on vacay, I'm not doing that unless I reall like you. It's hard to imagine staying at work and sleeping if you're tired and waking back up at work to keep on going.

2

NoaNeumann 17 hr ago +2

Welcome to capitalism bby. Oh and don’t forget to wear heels, no glasses and wear makeup, can’t have you being “ugly” at your office job. How else are you going to get married and make more wage slaves? - LOTS of old men from the 80’s that are still in charge.

2

Plenty_Fondant_951 14 hr ago +2

Came here to mention this and boom , top comment , it's like, if me, an absolute foreigner, immediately thinks of the work.wnvironment when someone bring sup falling birth rates in japan , maybe that's a sign? I have a homeless Japanese salesmen and another one who isn't homeless but isn't doing well that I follow on YouTube. That to me is my exposure to Japanese culture (I mean obviously a lot of Japanese stuff is popular here but I'm not a fan) You know what I think of when I think iceland? Insane natural beauty. Czech republic? Verdant forests. Egypt? Awe inspiring historical and archeological wonders. South korea and japan? No work life balance and high suicide rates

2

Auran82 13 hr ago +2

Don’t they have alot of BS traditions where employees are expected to go out after work with their boss until whatever hour, and then turn up before work starts the next day?

2

SmegmaWarrior0815 12 hr ago +2

Well they do export anime to make people think their country is totally kawaii. Don't actually look at what the country does.

2

milkonyourmustache 8 hr ago +1

It's more than just the work envrionment, it's what all of that work results in. People will put up with a lot if the rewards in the short and long term are worth it, but most people's jobs give them barely enough to support themselves let alone raise children on.

1

gbinasia 22 hr ago +3

Poverty is what will make the rates rise. In Japan, shame may work too.

3

johnlocke357 1 day ago +845

Wow, didn't realize that the yen had devalued so much in the last 5 years. 100 yen = 1 dollar used to be so convenient, but that's totally out the window now i guess.

845

TheLaughingBread 1 day ago +199

Yep, went twice after Covid and even in this short timeframe I noticed the Euro/Yen-shift. If you wanna go, go now!

199

UpsetKoalaBear 20 hr ago +117

[There’s a specific reason why Japan tries to keep its currency devalued](https://www.reuters.com/markets/asia/what-is-yen-carry-trade-2024-08-07/) and why the Yen is the 3rd largest reserve currency globally. They have to artificially keep interest rates low (devaluing the currency) to avoid a global financial crisis. The BoJ has an interesting dilemma. - Keep interest rates low: Avoid a global financial crisis, but hurts Japanese consumers as the purchasing power of the Yen is reduced. - Raise the interest rates: Stops the devaluation of the Yen, helping Japanese consumers, but risks a global financial crisis.

117

Alert-Notice-7516 19 hr ago +50

Money is weird

50

mouthful_quest 20 hr ago +6

Yen Carry Trade.

6

Abandon_Ambition 22 hr ago +35

The dollar is tanking against the euro

35

Eargoe 20 hr ago +9

How about the pound?

9

timbit87 18 hr ago +8

Only worth anything if tied to sand.

8

East-Ice-3199 17 hr ago +3

How about the kilo?

3

illegible 12 hr ago +3

Huh? It’s not though, it’s been relatively stable for the last 8-10 months or so. I keep expecting it to go down, but it hasn’t, at least not appreciably.

3

I_Push_Buttonz 14 hr ago +2

That's not a good thing for Europe, they run a massive trade surplus in goods with the US. An appreciating Euro makes everything they sell to the US more expensive, which means Americans buy less of it.

2

seductive_lizard 11 hr ago +2

Planning on going next year. Do you think it will still be low? (Compared to the euro that is)

2

Wischiwaschbaer 1 day ago +46

And that even though the dollar has also massively deteriorated. $1 is currently 0,85€.

46

Omisco420 20 hr ago +19

Man were we not up just a few years ago with nearly a 1:1 ratio? I feel like around brexit?

19

flyingtiger188 16 hr ago +7

Peaked just over 1usd:1euro in '22 then dropped and fluctuated in the 0.9 to 0.95 dollar:1euro range for a while then rose in '24 up to near parity until trump took office at which point it took a nose dive to down 1usd: 0.85 to 0.9euro range.

7

SourceScope 15 hr ago +11

Still $1 = €1 on steam though Because f*** Europeans. Thanks gabe

11

Misfiring 14 hr ago +2

You guys do have GOG right?

2

M3chdrag0n 14 hr ago +3

Good Old Gangstas, yes of course.

3

chaser676 1 day ago +50

Heading to soon. It's wild how far the dollar goes

50

knightsofgel 20 hr ago +27

Just dont be that tourist who comes here and says to Japanese people or anyone who lives here “wow it’s so c****!” Because it’s not c**** for local people and everyone will resent you even if they don’t say it out loud

27

ChaseballBat 19 hr ago +3

Wouldn't they have to know Japanese?

3

knightsofgel 19 hr ago +9

Plenty of Japanese people know English especially in major cities and also “c****” is something Japanese people learn very early in school. Almost everyone will understand foreigners saying c**** even if they can’t speak English well. Also there are millions of people like me who are immigrants and get paid the same salaries in yen. Just don’t be a d*** and read the room when you’re here You’ll inevitably be asked “do you like japan?” Or something along those lines in English by a Japanese person and please don’t say “yeah everything is c**** it’s great!”

9

Misfiring 14 hr ago +3

Simple rules is that if the currency is c**** for you, it almost always isn't c**** for locals.

3

kagemac 23 hr ago +7

Shit, how will I understand the monetary value of items I buy in jrpgs now???

7

gbinasia 22 hr ago +11

Japan is really affordable compared to the US and Europe right now. For food in particular, the quality is astounding.

11

PoopyDootyBooty 1 day ago +37

This is actually a good thing. Japans currency used to be deflationary (meaning it went up in value) which sounds good, but encourages more saving and less activity. It’s actually really hard to slow deflation. Japan just recently has started to experience inflation again, which is really good! Inflation encourages people to do things and not just save, and it’s easier to slow inflation than it is to slow deflation, so it makes controlling the economy easier. So TLDR; Japan has been working really hard to devalue the Yen, and it’s only recently started to work.

37

MagicalVagina 21 hr ago +13

Salaries increasing when though? Because I guarantee you Japanese people are feeling it badly right now https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h02698/

13

SnowflakeSorcerer 19 hr ago +10

I love total strangers telling other people why the economy is actually good and you’re both an idiot and completely wrong…

10

Curious_Kirin 17 hr ago +4

100 yen = $1 still works for Australians very nicely!

4

Ansoni 21 hr ago +2

It's still good if you're trying to understand prices. It's my pet peeve seeing people say, "but that's only x USD" as if that means anything.

2

noisyboy 19 hr ago +70

> Japan's PM Takaichi vowed to "work, work, work" and sleeps just two hours a night, even summoning aides for 3 a.m. meetings. She then asked her labor minister to relax the 720-hour annual overtime cap, drawing fierce backlash — labor leaders warned the limit is already near karoshi (death from overwork) thresholds, with a record 1,304 cases reported in 2024. Great consistency. The highest office does one thing and then turns around and offers 125 bucks.

70

TubeframeMR2 1 day ago +577

Nothing says “romance” like government-subsidized small talk and a shared appetizer.

577

Silly-Ad-6341 1 day ago +140

Clearly you haven't been to Japan, you can do a lot with 20k yen

140

UberShrew 1 day ago +95

Oh man you’re not kidding. We hit up Tokyo, Osaka, Hiroshima, and Kyoto for our honeymoon a year ago and good lord the price of damn good food was awesome.

95

BrianWulfric 1 day ago +59

The average bowl of ramen in LA is like $20 for me. The best ramen I've ever had in my life in Tokyo was like $8.

59

Interesting_Bird4550 17 hr ago +7

Which feels like $12 if you earn yen... 1,200 yen is seen as expensive for ramen, the "c****" price for it now is around 600 yen (which also feels expensive to those who remember when a bowl was only 300-400).

7

slimeyy_02 1 day ago +8

Yeah it ain't like other free falling currencies, Japanese purchasing power is still resilient

8

Bunnymancer 1 day ago +11

Not anymore.... 20,000 yen is $125 for a reason...

11

TacoTaconoMi 21 hr ago +11

Yea but the cost of living in Japan is a lot lower so 20000 yen goes farther in Japan than $125 in America. It does make travel significantly more expensive though.

11

pawala7 14 hr ago +3

Not for long. Inflation has gone through the roof in the past 2 years. Locals are seriously hurting, the government and the BoJ won't be able to keep up appearances for much longer.

3

Vundal 1 day ago +22

"first date is on the government!"

22

spontaneous-potato 1 day ago +6

Well if you’re not going to have any of the endless breadsticks, then give them all to me.

6

Fun-Memory1523 1 day ago +2

I mean Russia literally has a holiday dedicated for couples making babies...and no I am not talking about Valentine's day. Either way, this is totally a thing to keep the population stable, if not growing.

2

xander1421 23 hr ago +156

what about making life worth it

156

philmarcracken 21 hr ago +64

corporate did not approve your leave

64

Aromatic_Ideal_2770 1 day ago +40

125, what is the cost of a kid in Japan annually?

40

tehgurgefurger 17 hr ago +18

Yeah this I think is the real problem. Alot of people mention overtime which does suck but the average salary here is still around 4 million yen or 25,000$ while rent, food, tuition and everything else has gone up. So I think most people don't feel they make enough to afford kids and the government and all the big companies just absolutely refuse to match inflation or give real raises so I think we're just gonna see a downward spiral here.

18

ChadFullStack 1 day ago +455

Anything but a healthy 9-5 work schedule and bosses that don’t sexually and physically abuse their younger workers.

455

MarieOMaryln 1 day ago +175

You will take your government assigned boyfriend and say thank you.

175

Eargoe 20 hr ago +20

Not sure a boyfriend will help me reproduce

20

F-86--Sabre 18 hr ago +9

There’s a kink for that

9

Pozos1996 23 hr ago +47

I would challenge that even the 9-5 is too much, we have become so much more productive yet we work the same hours and our compensation is not getting significant raises. Meanwhile everything becomes more and more expensive. A baby is a huge investment of time and money and what little I have I want to spend on me.

47

Sycosplat 1 day ago +40

Yeah, this is trying to put a bandaid on the leg when it's the neck gushing blood. I don't think the lack of a small amount of money is why people aren't having kids anymore.

40

nam4am 22 hr ago +14

Japanese workers average fewer hours than those in Portugal, Italy, Ireland, the UK, US etc., and just barely more than those in Spain: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_average\_annual\_labor\_hours](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours) Their average hours have also drastically declined in [every decade since 1960](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_work_environment#/media/File:Japan_annual_total_working_hour_per_worker_1950-2023.png), the same period that their birth rates plummeted. The stereotype of extremely long hours in Japan as a generality hasn't really been true in decades.

14

Interesting_Bird4550 17 hr ago +7

Unrecorded overtime. There are still "black" jobs that demand it (I see it constantly with public school teachers). Ironically the only teachers I know who leave at a reasonable hour are usually women with small children. But that's still not a good reason to have a baby - they're still working 8 hours plus domestic unpaid labor at home.

7

imaginary_num6er 19 hr ago +4

The issue is that productivity of Japanese workers have actually decreased over the years, compared to other countries. While Japanese workers might work fewer total hours, their output is worse.

4

Videoboysayscube 20 hr ago +4

I know in Korea (and I'm pretty sure it applies to Japan too), there's an expectation to go out and drink and dine with your boss after your shift, which can tack on an extra two hours. Not sure if these studies take that detail into account.

4

Tyr_W 20 hr ago +6

It's not really thing anymore for many years now. It's an outdated stereotype from decades ago.

6

Fern-ando 23 hr ago +12

Do you think Afghanistan or Chad have those? Still their birthrates are 4-5 times Sweden.

12

MexicanEssay 20 hr ago +21

Parents in undeveloped and underdeveloped countries still functionally treat their children as property or as free labor. They're income sources rather than expenses, so there's no point in comparing their situation to that in developed or semi developed countries.

21

BasementMods 15 hr ago +3

People had kids back in the day because 1. it meant support in old age when they can no longer work, and 2. hearing from old people there just wasn't much else to do with life, life was boring, these days we have infinity distractions. These 3rd world countries are more like this than treating children as slaves as you seem to be suggesting.

3

Raiziell 1 day ago +9

My entire adult life, I have worked 6-2:30, 9-5 even sounds miserable, so for that to be your example means the work culture in Japan must be horrible.

9

KP_Wrath 22 hr ago +2

I worked a base 50 for years. Now I work, what is usually, a 9:30-5 three days a week and two days a week, I’m hybrid 8-5 ish (whenever my key objectives are done). It’s weird (but welcome) not running 10s all the time.

2

Upset_Confection_317 1 day ago +143

Dating does not equal babies. I’m married and I don’t have a baby. I’d totally take $100 to get a free meal and an hour of small talk.

143

Charily 1 day ago +54

Dating creates a lot of opportunity. Gives experience, choices, and if things go well or is accidental babies.

54

Scoutmaster-Jedi 17 hr ago +22

No! This is not “Japan”. These headlines suck. It’s a new policy of one rural prefecture in Japan. Not the national government or all of Japan or even a representative region like Osaka or Tokyo

22

Background-Skin-8801 10 hr ago +4

Typical modern day journalism. Make it look like big get the eyes on you.

4

macross1984 23 hr ago +49

Money is nothing but a slap in face. Young people need more free time to see each others off work. Time is the issue and working at companies that love to doll out overtimes and other unnecessary meetings make employees too tired to go out on what little free time they have.

49

TailungFu 1 day ago +80

They are too busy to even spend the 20k yen

80

xgardian 23 hr ago +17

Well it's a subsidy for the dating app so they wouldn't be getting it anyway

17

pivor 1 day ago +60

No dating in Japan, only work

60

Meekseeeks 22 hr ago +7

Most of the comments didn't bother to read past the headline, but it's a substitute to go on dates and for dating apps lol. Not directly subsidizing children.

7

orange-flying-rabbit 17 hr ago +8

Still a better idea than South Korea's 2024 Filipino slave labor program to fix birth rates.

8

Kruxf 23 hr ago +5

This won’t help. We are currently witnessing “Universe 25” in real time with humans. Not just in Japan either.

5

ashoka_akira 1 day ago +37

What they actually need to do is double down on workers rights and make things like unpaid overtime illegal. It’s considered normal to work 15h a day with no overtime pay and maybe get 1 day off a month. I follow a few working class Japanese youtubers and they barely have the time or energy needed to make their own meals.

37

TheMagicalMatt 22 hr ago +5

Declining birthrate sounds like a dream tbh, but more people = more demand, which justifies charging more for resources, land, and other necessities. Which is ironic because the high costs are the main reason people don't want kids.

5

PurpleFar6235 1 day ago +28

The culture needs to change before that’s going to happen.

28

mhornberger 23 hr ago +12

Their fertility rate is the same or higher than many places with a better work/life balance. The culture seems like the obvious cause, but it's hard to know what to point to when their fertility rate is the same or higher than Taiwan, Thailand, Poland, Costa Rica, Puerto Rico, Argentina, Colombia, China, the Baltics...

12

UltimatePunchMachine 20 hr ago +3

Lol 125 what is this a bribe for ants?

3

Appropriate_Ad8734 1 day ago +11

so the requirement is “dating”, not “getting married” or “getting pregnant”? guess they just claim to be dating someone new every day and stop going to work /s

11

kagemac 23 hr ago +5

I smell a romantic comedy

5

warmfuzzume 22 hr ago +2

The article says it is only certain dating sites that are more structured matchmaking, not open casual dating. I don’t know what exactly that is like in practice, and government sponsored matchmaking sounds very unappealing to me, but it did address it.

2

philmarcracken 21 hr ago +2

The people in charge of fixing this are romantically inept

2

timelesstrix0 22 hr ago +3

Meanwhile the PM was bragging about how she works insane late hours and encouraged other people to do so

3

Aggravating-Mine-697 19 hr ago +3

This issue is more developed in Japan but we're really seeing this happening worldwide

3

GoodOlSpence 1 day ago +9

Nah, there's too many people in the world. We gotta thin out these numbers more.

9

MexicanEssay 19 hr ago +7

Maybe someone should let the Indian Subcontinent and Western Africa know. They clearly haven't gotten the memo.

7

GaddockTeegFunPolice 1 day ago +16

Still not enough to afford a home

16

RecursiveCook 1 day ago +20

Houses are actually a lot more affordable over there. It boils down to proximity to major city like Tokyo where a house there is 4.8 million but in the greater area would be 345k. They can get a lot more cheaper too, that’s because they view houses as a depreciating asset, like a car. The west views homes as appreciating asset, so corporations buy them out.

20

Fair_Horror 1 day ago +6

They are depreciating assets because they are not designed to last ( 20 to 30 years typically). The falling population also plays into this, less people require less houses so prices go down. Pay is rubbish too.

6

twoworldman 1 day ago +5

>4.8 million but in the greater area would be 345k This is in yen, right? If so, that is very c****.

5

Effrendi 19 hr ago +3

I'm assuming USD. 345k yen is like $2000.

3

PurbulentTriest 1 day ago +2

And interest rates are super low.

2

Fern-ando 23 hr ago +2

Makes sense, if you are losing millions of people each year, there are more houses than the population will need when a new building is finish in 2-3 years.

2

ChadFullStack 1 day ago +41

Japanese homes are c**** relative to salary. Problem is their insane work culture and black companies.

41

doshe002 1 day ago +6

Eli5 what's a black company?

6

ChadFullStack 1 day ago +29

A company that is abusive and exploits its workers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_company_(Japan)

29

Celtic_Legend 21 hr ago +3

Why just go on the internet and lie? Youre indirectly saying they cant afford housing on purpose. Being able to afford renting apartments or buying a house (and food) has never been a problem in japan. They'll even give you a free house if you want to live out in the country. Plus mortgages are c**** af too. Problem with japan is that theyre overworked doing busy work on top of the rise of women controlling their own financial wellbeing you see in every modernized country.

3

Inferior_Jeans 1 day ago +12

I recommend checking out “the life of a Japanese salaryman”. Young adults are competing for scraps at companies where the work culture is toxic, abusive and outdated. The young employees are expected to work 12+ hour days while the senior employees sit back and do meetings and take all the credit. Their justification is that they had to go through the same ordeal when they first started 30+years ago. The only difference is inflation has kept young people too burnt out for any kind or personal life let alone time to raise a family. The vlogger says he makes $1700(converted to US) a month. You can’t raise a family on that budget. Japan looks appealing to tourists but the reason why their birthrates are so low is due to work culture stuck in the 1980s.

12

CynicalPomeranian 1 day ago +17

Many of those vlogger channels are cash grabs. They rent office space and make everything seem substantially worse for themselves so that viewers will donate to their KoFi.

17

Sentinel-Wraith 1 day ago +7

I worked in 4 offices in Japan and saw all sorts of stuff that would give western HR heart attacks. Japan is a wonderful place in some regards, but work really can be brutal. Even the allegedly shorter workweeks often hide unpaid and unregistered overtime.

7

Eis_ber 17 hr ago +2

Those videos are a scam.

2

Drowyx 1 day ago +5

Dang, wish I could get paid too.

5

ColemyGOAT 20 hr ago +5

That’ll barely cover one date!

5

SayNoper 20 hr ago +3

As many people pointed out its not only about money, time is a huge factor where work is taking up most our time. After work it is difficult to find the time and energy to do what we like, let alone dating. I am looking at all these reports of falling birth rates all across the world especially Asia since years ago and honestly it's always the same few reasons for why more people are single, why couples don't have children. So these issues have been around for many years and country leaders are doing nothing about it probably due to other factors. By the time they decide to change things up, pretty sure it will be too late.

3

somniopus 23 hr ago +2

Offering it how often? If it's daily *maybe* we can start negotiations

2

IEC21 23 hr ago +2

$125? Wow so motivational. I can buy a box of diapers or two with that - better start having babies ASAP.

2

kDfax 21 hr ago +2

"Here you go kids, I'll give you 20k JPY. NOW GO MAKE SOME BABIES FOR US". Please. Try 2M .

2

HooverMaster 20 hr ago +2

Its up to 125 early to subsidize dating apps. Hardly even worth calling it in

2

InvisibleOtter 20 hr ago +2

So do the people that get no matches just get paid indefinitely for free?

2

Piscator629 20 hr ago +2

You cannot raise families on 2 incomes in a pair of small cubicles.

2

Altruistic_Ad_0 20 hr ago +2

Anything but make life profitable enough to make room for a 2.1 babies. The money pays for the date. Not the future.

2

zacharywasd 19 hr ago +2

$125 is not going to move the needle on a problem this deep. cost of living and work culture in japan are the real issues here not lack of incentive money

2

simplywebby 19 hr ago +2

125 gonna do when they need dippers and shit

2

AllDressedKetchup 18 hr ago +2

Hey world leaders and corporate greedy assholes, we plebs aren't dating or having kids is because we don't want to subject our offsprings to continue this misery of working and only existing to work and make the billionaires richer while we suffer more and more every day.

2

elkruegs 15 hr ago +2

Have they tried not working people to death?

2

immersive-matthew 15 hr ago +2

Money is more important than people. Not just in Japan, but in most cultures if not all. Money over healthy society where people want to make babies. But at least the stock market and GDP are growing right?

2

krimmxr 14 hr ago +2

$125 for wasting your time? Unimaginable

2

Secure_Activity4944 13 hr ago +2

You know what? I would do that. And I would use protection. F*** the System.

2

retrofrenzy 11 hr ago +2

Skirting around rather than trying to fix the real problem: Long, inefficient working hours and it's terrible work culture. What's next? Renting a family or make a video game that tries to make you feel like becoming a parent? Oh wait... That's so Japanese.

2

AlwaysUpvote123 11 hr ago +2

A lot of places with falling birth rates are plagued with a nightmarish working culture, but actually increasing life quality to make people wabt kids again is out of the question obviously

2

sabbathan1 10 hr ago +2

Pretty sure it costs more than that to raise a kid.

2

CascadeJ1980 9 hr ago +2

All those foolish ideas when all they need to do is pay higher wages and create 4 day work weeks. Now people have time to relax have sex and create families.

2

doskey123 8 hr ago +1

Yes. Japanese work culture isn't really helpful. From what I've read it is better at international companies in Japan but local ones still have this obsessive and unhealthy work "ethic" aka cubicle slavery. If you work 10-12 hours a day, how will you ever think about starting a family?

1

Synchrotr0n 9 hr ago +2

We tried nothing and we are already out of ideas.

2

Sinister-Mephisto 1 day ago +5

Oh cool, that covers one dinner.

5

locutus92 22 hr ago +3

Get rid of the weird salaryman culture and let people maybe go home and chill and you might get more people having kids. Japan is messed up.

3

Lastito 21 hr ago +3

$125 for 18 years of debt from having a kid with the wrong person or half of your things once the divorce happens… no thank you. Keep your piece of mind and stay single lol 🙂‍↔️

3

Underwater_Karma 16 hr ago +2

$125 isn't a lot, but it would help me to start dating again. I could use it to send my wife to a spa while I'm getting back out there

2

Alwayshigh001 15 hr ago +2

It is there work culture and apartheid attitude to working women !! Why some one will bring a life to this world when the government and business have zero empathy for them.

2

Beo1217 1 day ago +3

That totally covers raising a baby.

3

Japan is offering around ¥20,000 (~$125) to encourage people to start dating as birth rates fall.

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