I'm not sure a right wing MAGA supporter that calls for people protesting against Trump and Israel to be jailed is a good judge of what's moral or not.
-1
Virtual-Alps-28885 days ago
+9
And if I may ask, who is this person you are speaking of and what evidence you have for that?
9
alphajatin5 days ago
+13
I’ve often wondered how China’s allies justify this; especially those that claim to base their values on Islam.
13
lcy0x15 days ago
+32
Every Muslim nations are wary of Islam fundamentalism. They want a stable society, sometimes theocracy, but none of them want a transnational religion extremist group to challenge their position.
32
Virtual-Alps-28885 days ago
-16
Many early Uyghur nationalists were secularists, and their early 20th-century attempts at statehood in northern Xinjiang prior to formation of the PRC was inspired by and emulating the then-recent formation of the Soviet Union.
By posturing them as religious extremists to be pacified, you are decontextualising modern Western fears and imposing them on a region whose history does not fit readily into these narratives and ignoring the Han Chinese colonialism in the region since Zuo Zongtang’s Confucian-inflected “civilising mission” in the 1870s.
-16
lcy0x15 days ago
+21
Current suppression of Uighurs is the direct response of ETIM terror attacks. Linking an Islam extremist movement to a secular movement 100 years ago doesn’t make sense. They aren’t even the same group of people.
21
Virtual-Alps-28885 days ago
-11
And the question in turn for you is, what prompted the Uyghur attacks to begin with?
>They aren’t even the same group of people.
The Turkic peoples of Xinjiang are the same group of people, and there is a shared sense of ethnic and pre-national consciousness.
Trying to deny the links between Zuo in the 1870s, the ROC-allied Hui warlord who subjugated the region in the 1930s, and the oppression of Uyghurs under PRC rule since the 1950s to the 2010s internment camps, is ignoring a fairly consistent point: the Chinese are a colonial force in their western regions, hence the unnatural fit of Tibet, Qinghai and Xinjiang within the PRC country.
-11
lcy0x15 days ago
+11
ETIM, the east turkistan Islamic movement.
11
Virtual-Alps-28885 days ago
-8
I think you are trying to avoid the obvious, which is sinicization attempts by Han Chinese states which encroached upon a region that was historically not Chinese. These movements don't appear out of a vacuum, in the same way Arab insurgencies in the Middle East against Israel have precedent.
-8
cordis0005 days ago
+9
The people most killed by suicide bombers are Muslims.
9
Fickle-Maintenance-15 days ago
+12
Well, 37 Muslim majority nations signed a letter agreeing with the situation in Xinjiang.
“Faced with the grave challenge of terrorism and extremism, China has undertaken a series of counter-terrorism and deradicalization measures in Xinjiang, including setting up vocational education and training centers.”
Fundamentally the issue was there were extremist militant Uyghur organizations conducting terrorism with links to AlQaeda and ISIS. Even now there are such militants backed by Turkey in Syria and across the Middle East.
Also most of the hardest proponents of the whole thing are discredited by now. Rushan Abbas proven to have been apart of Guantanamo Bay torturing of Muslims in the Bush years, Adrien Zenz is a religious nut job “God sent me to destroy the communist party”, World Uyghur Congress receiving funding from NED and in full support of Israel in Gaza also its President has had 3 separate woman came out to accuse him of repeated sexual harassment.
12
dufutur2 days ago
+1
Obviously more than one million Kazakh Chinese living peacefully in Xinjiang helped.
1
max385765 days ago
-10
As a Taiwanese citizen—a country that is hostile to China—I used to have a lot of questions about China’s treatment of the Uyghurs. I wondered whether China was lying or the West was lying.
After a very long...long....long discussion with grok, I’ve come to a conclusion.
If you also have many questions like I did, I’m sharing my thoughts here:
[https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMg\_7991b7fc-cb5d-4e79-b9b1-14fdbb5f6e5e](https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMg_7991b7fc-cb5d-4e79-b9b1-14fdbb5f6e5e)
P.S.
1. Since this is written in Traditional Chinese (used in Taiwan), please use your browser’s right-click translation feature.
2. The discussion at the beginning isn’t about this topic; it gradually shifted to the Uyghurs, so you can skip the earlier parts.
-10
max385762 days ago
+1
I’ve gotten into the habit of waiting a few days before checking all the responses to my posts at once. This saves me time and helps me identify any potential flaws in my reasoning.
In the past, my replies would attract opponents—even the most unreasonable die-hard fans would ignore logic and respond with insults or try to label me. The more civil ones would try to shift the focus of the discussion.
I actually welcomed these responses, because they confirmed that my arguments were sound. They were left with nothing but impotent rage, or, feeling insecure, could only resort to changing the subject.
\-----------------------------------
But
now there’s only silence and a bunch of downvotes.
I appreciate the netizens who downvoted without resorting to insults or name-calling; this shows you are rational.
In my estimation, this falls into two categories:
One is that the facts and logic I presented are entirely correct—you can’t find any flaws, but you can’t accept them emotionally.
The other is that there may be logical or factual errors in my argument, but you’re too lazy to point them out.
If you fall into the second category and have a moment, could you please point out exactly which parts you found factually or logically flawed that led you to downvote, so I can refine my thinking and make it more complete and airtight?
Thank you.
1
max385761 day ago
+1
By the way, if you found my discussion helpful, here are a few of my own conversations with AI:
The long-term consequences of so-called democratic and authoritarian governments
[https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMg\_7fcad306-d9c0-40b7-80d2-594f29e3e1d7](https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMg_7fcad306-d9c0-40b7-80d2-594f29e3e1d7)
The Hypocrisy of Human Rights Organizations
[https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMg\_5d7ca885-6a16-4071-88f6-2f2a32b046ba](https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMg_5d7ca885-6a16-4071-88f6-2f2a32b046ba)
Democratic and Authoritarian Governments: How They Handle Crimes Committed by the Powerful and Privileged
[https://gemini.google.com/share/891341bd3039](https://gemini.google.com/share/891341bd3039)
[https://gemini.google.com/share/d02e00632178](https://gemini.google.com/share/d02e00632178)
16 Comments