The entire comment section is bursting with totally significant "but what about here in the US!?" comments.
For anyone who actually came for the topic:
>Polish police have detained more than 100 people suspected of possessing and distributing child sexual abuse material in a nationwide operation codenamed “Hellfire.”
>During a two-week investigation, officers seized 1,500 digital storage devices containing around 330,000 files of suspicious material, including content generated using AI, Poland’s Central Cybercrime Bureau said on Thursday.
>A total of 123 suspects have been detained, of whom 95 have already been charged with possession, distribution and production of illegal content.
>The youngest person detained in the bust was 19 and the oldest 94.
2708
LucyLilium926 days ago
+820
Why do they always have thousands of incriminating files as well...?
820
IEatLintFromTheDryer6 days ago
+831
Files get taken down all the time. People save them for later consumption. and some people hoard it either in fear of losing access to some sites or they do it compulsively, as it has become an addiction.
831
EternalCanadian6 days ago
+376
And as there’s no way for most of them to seek treatment without being vilified, they go into echo chambers and it just gets worse.
I have basically no analogy except a less terrible one, sadly, and I’m not trying to defend these guys, but I can’t imagine it’s easy to live with if you know it’s fucked, yet have no recourse to seek help without being considered a monster.
Speaking purely for the ones that don’t produce, but just consume. Which isn’t any better, but you know.
376
jgilla20125 days ago
+379
About a decade ago I heard a story on NPR about a young Canadian guy (maybe 22 years old or so) who had this problem and started an advocacy and support group. Changed my perspective on the topic: if we as a society are going to demonize child sex abuse (which is obviously a good thing to demonize), we should also acknowledge that there are people who struggle with urges related to it who should be able to find help so as not to act on those impulses.
If our response is “just don’t do it” then it will continue to happen. It would be like addressing the fentanyl crisis by saying “just don’t do drugs, problem solved” – yeah, not really.
379
ParanoidUmbrella5 days ago
+84
It should also be noted that a lot of these things can also stem from trauma. Iirc people who experience CSA are more likely to continue the cycle of abuse. Though this was a while ago I read that, so I don't know if any newer studies have been done
Edit: apparently this has been proven wrong. The replies here have some interesting information, so please look to them if you're curious.
84
OvercookedBobaTea5 days ago
+112
Edit: here is a study that shows that pedophiles and non pedophiles experience CSA at similar rates, only slightly higher in pedophiles. So the development of pedophilia is likely due to other risk factors
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2082860/
112
OvercookedBobaTea5 days ago
+69
This has been proven to be false. Trauma can be a factor, but experiencing CSA does not make you more likely to be a pedophile. It’s a myth
69
tigerdini5 days ago
+26
Absolutely. I did a bit of a dive on that issue a while ago and was confused when I found research which supported *both* premises.
The understanding I came to, trying to reconcile this apparent contradiction, was this: Firstly, the statement that "perpetrators of CSA are more likely to have been victims of abuse themselves", might well be true, but that abuse was not restricted to SA, but could be of any other kind as well. So basically, perpetrators could still be more likely to have been victims (of all kinds of abuse) but CSA victims were not any more likely to sexually abuse others. Secondly, perpetrators of CSA are statistically likely to abuse more than one, sometimes many victims while the reverse is not nearly as often true for victims.
Hope those thoughts shine some light on the apparent contradiction.
26
OvercookedBobaTea5 days ago
+4
It’s likely that CSA is an accompanying risk factor, but it’s highly unlikely to be an actual cause
4
Expert-Ad87845 days ago
+12
What about women who I would wager experience trauma at a much higher rate? Women are significantly less likely to sexually offend against someone
12
ParanoidUmbrella5 days ago
+1
Less likely to be reported for it. Sexual assault charges agaisnt women are very rarely won, assuming they even get brought forward given all of the societal pressure their victims endure. Anecdotal, sure, but I've known just as many people assaulted by women as by men and have seen much more pushback against people assaulted by women (lucky, that doesn't count, eh not really, hah as if, are things I've heard targeted at those victims).
It's impossible to know for sure who offends more, and quite frankly it shouldn't be a competition, but I suspect it's a lot more even than people might expect.
1
OvercookedBobaTea5 days ago
+6
But even then we know women are much less likely to be perpetuators of sexual violence than men are
6
OvercookedBobaTea5 days ago
+13
Note: there IS a correlation. But a LOT more people than you think have experienced CSA. It’s likely that a lot of pedos experienced CSA at a similar rate to non-pedophiles. So there is a correlation but experiencing CSA does not necessarily make becoming an offender MORE likely
13
PackyScott5 days ago
+22
Also the context matters, pedophilia (the sexual attraction to children) does not correlate to experiencing abuse, but molesting children does correlate. People who were abused by family members learn a bad boundary and often use that bad boundary on others. Pedophiles and child molesters are not the same group. There is of course some overlap. But many pedophiles never offend and many child molesters aren’t sexually attracted to children.
22
OvercookedBobaTea5 days ago
+4
A much bigger indicator of whether or not someone becomes abusive is their broader cultural environment. If abuse is normalised by a culture, then people are much more likely to engage in it AND be victims of it. If someone’s abused in a culture where abuse is frowned upon then they aren’t as likely to engage in it themselves.
The ‘abuse makes abusers’ is a key example of ‘correlation doesn’t equal causation’
It would make sense that 20% of pedophiles experience CSA, cos about 15% of the wider population experience it in general
4
OhImNevvverSarcastic5 days ago
+6
We actually have evidence they're simply born that way, and it's self discovered in adolescence.
So the situation is actually much worse than that.
6
mrchue5 days ago
+3
It is a heritable issue?
3
OhImNevvverSarcastic4 days ago
+2
We need more empirical evidence, but inferentially, that's not an unfair assumption.
We just don't know how.
Traditionally, most research into peodophilic populations is done on prisoners, people who have already offended and likely making up only a fraction of pedophiles.
There's not been reliable ways to access and research the larger population, due to stigma.
2
takeda645 days ago
+5
> It would be like addressing the fentanyl crisis by saying “just don’t do drugs, problem solved” – yeah, not really.
But in case on fentanyl that's really the only sensible solution. Of course what I meant by that is I think the governments should put majority of efforts on prevention.
5
IEatLintFromTheDryer6 days ago
+34
Theres Projekt Dunkelfeld in Berlin, Germany, but its the only one i know of, sadly. People need help before they offend, thats why id wish for more treatment options to exist.
34
Minimum-Dare3015 days ago
+51
Most US treatment providers would have a duty to report if someone came seeking help for CSAM addiction.
51
coltaaan5 days ago
+92
Yeah, I think I've read that a lot of states have these mandatory reporting laws that disincentivize people struggling with CSAM consumption/addiction from seeking help.
Call me crazy...but I'd rather have it so that people who seek out/view CSAM but *want* help be able to get that help without fear of repercussion *before* their behavior escalates any further.
Just consider the downstream effects for someone in this situation:
Currently: They seek help -> get reported by the person they're seeking help from -> go to prison (?) on taxpayer's expense/labeled as sex offender -> they are now an excon/sec offender, their urges are likely just as present (if not more so after being locked up), they are more likely to re-offend, will have trouble with work/economically. It becomes an added strain on the whole system for this person's entire life - if they're young...that could be decades added strain on the system.
If laws were *slightly* changed: They seek help -> they get help -> they are a productive member of society (or at worst, they *aren't* an everlasting societal liability and taxpayer strain).
But there are too many private interests with incentives to keep things as they are:
- Private prisons
- LEAs/police - it looks "good" when there are these big busts (even though the numbers reported are often questionable)
- Politicians - (1) some have donors from the prison-industrial complex, (2) none want to be seen as "soft" on crime
92
shidderbean5 days ago
+53
There's also the paradox that if someone is going to be assumed to be a monster, what's stopping them from becoming one, or a "worse" one.
If you're going to jail and living with the scarlet letter for the rest of your life the same if you look at p*** of it or diddle kids yourself, why wouldn't you just go for the real thing?
Similarly, if you're just as likely to be murdered in prison because of what you did either way, then why not murder the kid you raped in an attempt to not get ratted out on/caught?
As always the answer is seeing people as people with their own baggage and helping them get help, but especially on this topic the world really, really has a strange f***** for vigilantism.
53
Ill_Bridge17665 days ago
+29
This would be the most logical and rational way but most people, at least on the internet, go immediately on rants how every pedophile should be executed as soon as the topic comes up. Even better they say you are one since you are "defending" them.
29
Minimum-Dare3015 days ago
+7
Could not agree more!
7
ants_are_everywhere5 days ago
+12
One of the problems with the "they get help" part is that we don't know if there are any effective treatments.
If, as many sex researchers believe, pedophilia is functionally a sexual orientation, then the only treatment options on the table are conversion therapy, abstinence education, or sex drive reduction (e.g. chemical castration)
I know there have been some attempts to promote abstinence education and abstinence support groups. I don't know whether they have been effective.
Conversion type therapy treatments do not work.
Of course there are child abusers who are not attracted to children per se, but just find them to be easy targets. That may be more treatable as a disorder. But now you're dealing with a kind of antisocial aggression which has its own difficulties.
12
Outside_Barnacle58105 days ago
+5
To my knowledge, we have never trialled an "early intervention" treatment. Usually this has happened after someone has offended and have experienced these urges for a very long time.
5
sir_knugget5 days ago
+31
> And as there’s no way for most of them to seek treatment without being vilified, they go into echo chambers and it just gets worse.
this is why it always gets on my nerves when people casually throw around "pedophile" or like the headline of this very article, anti-"pedophile" operation.
no. this wasn't an anti-pedophile operation. this was an anti-CSAM operation.
we don't call raids against illegal brothels anti-teleiophile operations.
a pedophile is not automatically a criminal, and not all criminals against children are pedophiles. it doesn't matter if someone's a pedophile or not, it's the *act* of doing something criminal that we should condemn.
31
ExplosiveDisassembly5 days ago
+10
That shouldn't be seen as a hot take. Professionals are fully aware of the issue. Society doesn't allow for them to get help, and that just drives them further into the issue.
There's really no way around it. They can't be allowed to do it, but they're not gonna stop doing crime unless they get help. What do you do?
10
andrepoiy6 days ago
+22
Some countries have programs now in place to treat people before offending. Canada is one example, and I believe Germany too
22
UnexpectedAnanas6 days ago
+37
I can't help but think there is probably a trust issue with these programs being so new and the consequences of that information being wrongly used. Hopefully some time fixes that.
I'm glad that some places are starting to address the actual issue.
37
ReddereDonum5 days ago
+10
And hacking would surely be a concern. So many big companies have been hacked in recent memory. I can imagine any such center would be quite a prize for vigilantes so would be a target.
10
ShortResolution88825 days ago
+6
We have the ATSOP in the UK but also it’s been proven to be super ineffective at reducing offending 😢
6
Lulullaby_5 days ago
+5
>And as there's no way for most of them to seek treatment without being vilified, they go into echo chambers and it just gets worse.
There are in some countries, but yeah the situation is pretty dire.
With a lot of crime the majority of people want harsher punishments, rathen than preventing the crime or helping people to stop doing crime.
5
PackageOutside83565 days ago
+4
There were good German TV Spots from a research project against child abuse that offers anonymous therapy since 2005. I don’t know if they still exist and I don’t want to look into it:
https://youtu.be/2TR4jwFUJg0?is=WFpGTLTgF4VJd3CP
4
M-Noremac5 days ago
+13
Yea, it's very true.
A huge part of the pride movement was showing that being lgbt is not a choice, but that it's just part of who you are from birth.
But I'm not really sure where the line is drawn before it is no longer acceptable to be born a certain way.
For me, I would have think that the line is drawn to prevent the exploit and harm of real children. But (and this is a genuine question because I have no idea), wouldn't AI p*** help put an end to that? If pedophiles can get their rocks off without any children needing to be involved, isn't that a win for society?
13
geo_gan5 days ago
+17
There’s just no logic in the average person when it comes to this. When I saw the detail above about the bust in Poland also involving Ai stuff I was like, what the f***, load of bollox. Makes no sense, just another irrational witch hunt probably just just make some department head or section get some promotion.
17
CatsianNyandor5 days ago
+5
I would think consuming is better than producing. Don't try to make it out as the same. Of course better than bad can still be bad. But I think we need to not throw rapists together with people who're just sick, even if we find their sickness abhorrent.
5
ChopsticksImmortal5 days ago
+2
I do wonder why it seems like its mostly men though. I can believe that it may be something that some people are born with and it happens and it sucks, but in that case wouldnt the gender ratio be 50/50? I definitely believe that there are female pedos, but why to most perpetrators (at least the ones caught) seem to be majority male?
If the ratio isnt 50/50, it seems some may be societally or culturally influenced, or because theyre attracted to the power dynamic, etc.
Terrible link, but says that female sex offenders are 0.4 to 5% of convictions:
https://sk.sagepub.com/ency/edvol/the-sage-encyclopedia-of-psychology-and-gender/chpt/pedophilia-gender#_
The article mentions that its difficult to study pedophiles (are female pedos less likely to be caught, or less likely to commit an offense (as in, be a pedophile without committing a pedophilic crime?))
Surprisingly, or maybe unsurprisingly, very little literature on the topic.
2
Anon-Sham5 days ago
+2
Yeah its actually a really tricky situation. I have a lot of sympathy for those with the sickness but who never act on it (including digitally).
Even if there were government supported preventative treatment options, i cant imagine a world where many people would take them up on it just for the fear of being exposed.
2
OdahP6 days ago
+62
The worst thing about this is that its not just adult people who do this but plenty of minors who themselves consume this kind of stuff
62
UnexpectedAnanas6 days ago
+95
>The worst thing \[...\] plenty of minors who themselves consume this kind of stuff
That kind of makes sense though. It doesn't make it *right*, but I would expect it.
Minors don't fully grasp the severity of it - the consent, the power dynamics, the manipulation, the consequences, what happens to that kid when the cameras are off - but are obviously going to be drawn to depictions of those their own age in their curiosity. I certainly wouldn't consider that the *worst* part of this.
95
SmooK_LV6 days ago
+76
Minors consuming it is actually less surprising as minors will be interested likely in content depicting their age group. Most of them likely grow out of it. What's worst thing about it is that there are content creators for consumers, which includes underage people.
76
theguidetoldmetodoit5 days ago
+38
> there are content creators for consumers, which includes underage people.
People don't seem to have any idea of how common that really is. I wouldn't be surprised if that is the vast majority of how that stuff is produced, now. There is hardly any demographic willing to post stuff like that for free, just for the attention, let alone if there is money involved.
Like, even for commercial p*** this is a massive issue bc so many teenagers would do anything for the type of money that is offered for a shoot. Before the industry was able to verify the legitimacy of IDs through a database, underaged actors were *everywhere.*
38
MarMacPL5 days ago
+11
When I was 13-15 years old I would love to see some of girls from my class naked. It was a time when none of my friends had cell phone (not to mention one with camera) and digital cameras was very expensive so you would have to develop film - no girl would take n**** back then.
But I'm pretty sure that now there are young boys who try to convince girls to send them such photos and there are girls who will do this.
11
nixielover5 days ago
+8
Plenty of scandals in highschools around this. I'm from 1990 and phones with cameras just became a thing along with affordable digital ones when I was in highschool. The "big" one in my school back then was a girl who took some pics, sent them to her (a******) boyfriend who shared them with his friends through MSN messenger who... shared them with their friends and before you know it the whole school had seen them and the cops had to come tell people to delete them because having those photos meant posession of childporn. As far as I know there were a few smaller incidents in the years after but never again on the scale that basically the whole school had seen them
8
Initial_Brush_645 days ago
+16
Im not seeing how that is worse.
16
Levonorgestrelfairy16 days ago
+53
Its easy to trap people in the taboo of it all
They somehow come across something whole browsing, start freaking out, and then they start getting addicted to having something no one is supposed to and they go back.
People also dont know how to handle one off intrusive thoughts and can spiral from that.
53
Forward_Rope_55985 days ago
+17
You think 14 year old kids finding 14 year old kids attractive is worse than 50 year old pigs finding 14 year old kids attractive?
17
unknown-one6 days ago
+28
well yes kind of... if you are 15 and your 15yo gf send you picture.. yes it would legally classify as CP... in most EU countries age of consent is around 14-16 so they can do whatever anyway
28
Twowie6 days ago
+32
>in most EU countries age of consent is around 14-16 so they can do whatever anyway
If on film or photo, it is still considered CSAM here. Doesn't matter if the creator/viewer/victim is under 18.
32
7Dayss6 days ago
+28
Depends on the jurisdiction. In Germany for example, material of/with a child between the ages of 14-18 produced themselves or with their consent for personal use is legal, which seems pretty logical to me.
So a 16/18 couple making their own video is fine, distributing that is not. I'm not 100% sure, but sending a n*** of yourself to a single person shouldn't count as distribution as far as I know.
28
inspectoroverthemine5 days ago
+7
As an aside- it always seems like Germany has the most sensible laws. I'm sure there must be exceptions, but this isn't the first listnook post where Germany's laws are mentioned and they're by far the best thought out.
7
7Dayss5 days ago
+6
There are plenty of laws that don't really make sense, be it because they are from a different time - only a man can be punished under the exhibitionist law, women only fall under public indecency, or because they are just not well made.
For example Section 202c of the criminal code (Acts preparatory to data espionage and phishing):
If you have software on your computer that allows you to commit acts of data espionage (breaking into software, stealing passwords, etc) you might be punished by up to to two years in jail or a fine (and you get all your electronics confiscated, because they might contain clues or are used to commit the crime).
At first one might think this makes sense, but it's just like punishing people for owning a hammer, because you could smash a window with it. There have been several it-security specialists that were sentenced under this law, because they had software to decompile/reverse engineer software. One notorious case was about a woman who found a security vulnerability in the campaign app of the conservative party CDU. She did the responsible thing and told the party about it. Instead of thanking her, they pressed charges under "data espionage (sec. 202a)" because she ought to have bypassed security measures to get into the app, which falls under this section.
They ended up pulling back because of public backlash: https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/article/the-cdus-leaky-campaign-app-176310
6
inspectoroverthemine5 days ago
+2
Wow- yeah, as an 'it guy', that law is insane. Its possible I'm violating it right now.
2
Infinite_throwaway_15 days ago
+7
The Columbus, Ohio police department threatened to charge an 11 year old girl with cp after she was groomed by a predator and convinced to take photographs.
7
ABetterKamahl12345 days ago
+4
Not gonna lie, I don't take the US as any form of paragon of just lawmaking and enforcement.
4
7Dayss5 days ago
+3
Edit: My bad, I misread your comment. I thought you said they charged the adult.
Yeah, that's messed up and pretty much the consequence if there aren't these kind of exceptions.
Okay, what is your point here? For one, this wouldn't be allowed in Germany either, because the girl was under 14. And even if she was over 14, consent isn't just "she didn't do it under duress". There is a legal concept where the mental/developmental maturity is considered, as well as the position of power a perpetrator might hold over the victim (i.e. Teachers, counselors, youth leaders and the like). Depending on if the criteria are/aren't fulfilled the child/adolescent might not be able to consent, even if they dont do it against their will.
This is complicated and can't always be solved 100%, but it's better than making sex offenders/predators out of totally normal teenagers doing normal teenager things.
3
sleepygeeks6 days ago
+77
Two points:
1: They seem to have just counted the total number of files on all 1,500 devices, about 200 files per device, So that's pretty low. The USA would have had them having a cumulative count of millions of pictures, Which goes to point 2.
2: For the USA and Canada, Videos get counted as 1 picture per X number of frames (I forget the number), Which is why western numbers are usually stupidly high.
While that may sound stupid, It goes back to the old days of film/vhs and how charges were laid on producers (per image that shows illegal content). They just slightly modified the old standard for the digital age and say every frame = x number of images.
Poland does not seem to count files the same way, So the number is more reflective of what a normal person would consider a picture.
77
shidderbean5 days ago
+20
Sounds like the US charges are built for CSAM the same way as they were for marijuana cultivation back in the prohibition days.
They would weigh the entire plant you were growing, soil and all, and calculate your charge based on that weight as the weight of illicit drugs you were producing. God help you if you just watered your plants before you got busted
20
alwayssunnyinskyrim5 days ago
+5
“Oh man, I knew I shouldn’t have gotten those nice cement planters”
5
clumsy__jedi5 days ago
+5
Thank you for this explanation
5
Person8998876 days ago
+77
They save it if they can find it. It’s not like you can just find illegal p*** on p******.
77
Mindless_Director9556 days ago
+46
well, not anymore atleast
46
Dire-Dog6 days ago
+14
Stuff probably slips through the cracks
14
ABetterKamahl12345 days ago
+5
Like any user-upload site, it's always being added. How long it persists on the site really is decided by how thorough and quality the admin teams are.
IIRC Facebook ends up having a *ton* of child p*** uploaded, or at least attempted to be, over a pretty short timeframe, like a day or something.
There was a guy doing some AMA stuff on moderation for Facebook a few years ago and how traumatic it was seeing that and the heavily violent posts.
5
Due-Memory-69576 days ago
+11
To distribute one has to own.
11
ItsCAPTAINSparrow5 days ago
+11
Idk how Poland does it but I know someone who worked child sex crimes and they consider every frame of a video an image. It makes the number big and scary to generate additional charges and sway court/DA/jury.
11
pbzeppelin19775 days ago
+3
I believe the UK counts cached images from websites you've visited as evidence.
3
somneuronaut5 days ago
+9
I've always thought this was a dumb question. You could queue the download of hundreds of thousands of files with a single click, like using a t****** client or similar. You could download a thousand images in a few seconds via a zip file. This isn't 1995.
9
atreeismissing5 days ago
+13
If you look at one listnook p*** page you're downloading hundreds of images (full size images, thumbnails, etc. are all cached) and the various files associated with them. Spend 20m looking at p*** you're probably in to the thousands of files and images cached on your computer. Also, a lot of people save this stuff locally.
13
ABetterKamahl12345 days ago
+7
Some nations also have it on the books that a video is made of "pictures" so a short video can be many thousands of "photos" in the crime.
7
sweetno6 days ago
+4
These are just emails/messages from messengers.
4
Freezinghero6 days ago
+3
Could just be a thumb drive tbf
3
neko6 days ago
+20
Criminals are dumb as hell. I have a lawyer friend who told me about a case where the person literally had a folder on Google Drive named "crime" where they kept their plans
20
Judson_Scott5 days ago
+7
> Criminals are dumb as hell.
Only the dumbest criminals get caught.
7
hillswalker875 days ago
+2
that big buy from mind hunter made the same point.
2
Saucermote5 days ago
+7
At least hide things like a normal person in a "homework" folder.
7
AdCreepy51655 days ago
+3
For the same reason neck beards brag about how many gigs of p*** they have to their inner circle jerks? Yes that is a thing those people do.
3
eivittunyt5 days ago
+2
One archive file can contain tens of thousands of images and only take up a few gigabytes
2
kokodokusan5 days ago
+2
I read once that it's because that they frequently have to trade material to gain access to more material
2
signal155 days ago
+2
Dude that used to work for me just got 25 years for 15 files that he allegedly downloaded. They supposedly caught him by logging his IP address. Interestingly, they caught another guy at the same time 4 miles away, and neither one knew each other. It makes me wonder a bit, because I have pretty good spidey sense about creepy people, and this guy didn't give me that at all. But, he took a plea deal...
2
bigbean2001995 days ago
+2
Biggest mistake man. "Normal" people are actually monsters all the time. It's why we don't judge a book by it's cover.
2
Ok_Net_57716 days ago
+151
It honestly terrifies me how many potential victims that 94yr old might have had, f****** hell
151
leoreben6 days ago
+52
Terrifies me more how many more like him are around and not caught. Seems to be an awful lot of pedos out there.
52
ABetterKamahl12345 days ago
+13
I find the toughest thing to really realize is that while there's tons of p*** out there that's perfectly legal, human attraction isn't some binary thing that when you turn 18 people find you attractive, and there's probably many that effectively the age they find people starting to be attractive just doesn't go away with time.
It makes me wonder how many non-criminal people are out there with attractions to minors, but wholly not acting on it, especially as the "attractiveness band" so to speak of the common age groups is just big anyways and many people as they mature just find younger people less and less attractive beyond physicality.
Like, I'm in my 30's. I can find a 20 year old attractive, no question. But actually *dating* or really engaging with them long term? Doesn't seem realistic or pleasant.
Now, sex pests, or just people who don't feel any want/need for a romantic attachment, that might be different. But that's not how I tend to envision things, the worst sex I've had has consistently been partners I've not felt emotional connections with, so that might be swaying my perspective.
13
Ok_Net_57716 days ago
+12
I wonder if theres a lot of pedos or its a lot of the same pedos who just arent caught, like ones that are identified but never “caught red handed” so to speak
12
hillswalker875 days ago
+2
well....if you look at crime stats(as in, people arrested and charged) for assaulting minors...I'd say it's a lot. almost none of them record it though.
it's a lot harder to prove an assault occurred when it wasn't recorded, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
2
girrrrrrr26 days ago
+39
94?! If they get a month in jail it might be a life sentence.
39
NaughtyCheffie6 days ago
+63
I really don't understand the whataboutism in these scenarios. Yes, the US has a pedo problem but guess what so does the whole goddamn world.
This is a win. This is a good thing. This reduces, at least to some degree, the suffering of children being raped and sold.
I applaud Poland and it's investigative agencies for capturing and prosecuting these horrible, horrible people.
63
jraymcmurray5 days ago
+14
For all that is holy I hope to God I'm not still horny at 94.
14
karma30005 days ago
+4
what! Plenty of unattached ladies at that age.....
4
RuaridhDuguid5 days ago
+3
Many of whom can remove their teeth! 😉
3
Tacpaws5 days ago
+3
Thanks for clarity
3
Great-Trifle28106 days ago
+17
Try not to make it all about Trump Challenge [IMPOSSIBLE] [GONE WRONG]
17
philmarcracken5 days ago
+2
> officers seized 1,500 digital storage devices containing around 330,000 files of suspicious material, including content generated using AI
So AI generated against the law, and that means they're more likely to go after the real thing instead? great job...
2
Gelomaniac6 days ago
+1898
Now do one in the white house
1898
Virtual_Medium_67216 days ago
+424
I think they'll need 2 new prisons just for them
424
Anxiety_Fit6 days ago
+121
They got all those warehouses that they want to convert to detention centers….
121
Good_Restaurant156 days ago
+38
They can just dump them in that new wing they're about to pour concrete into...
38
Echo4186 days ago
+28
Lets call them what they are: concentration camps.
28
EvilAbacus6 days ago
+13
Need to concentrate all our nazipedos there
13
Shadowpriest6 days ago
+14
There's plenty in the USA to store them in. This country is great at keeping high incarceration rates so they'll just squeezed in.
14
DohReignMeme6 days ago
+14
We've already got a conveniently located pit.
14
_dauntless6 days ago
+6
If real life was a movie, after the hero saves the day, the bad guys would all be put in "Alligator Alcatraz", and you'd see someone taking down that sign with a new one that said something pithy
6
FlametopFred5 days ago
+3
Pedophile Palace
3
Dalehan5 days ago
+5
Predator Palace.
That way, both the pedos AND the alligators can stay together.
5
FlametopFred5 days ago
+2
that works much better as a name and a concept
2
cbelt36 days ago
+5
Repurpose the Ballroom…
5
Vashsinn6 days ago
+6
Send them to el Salvador.
6
ShermansFieldOrder666 days ago
+7
The prison under the ballroom.
7
hotinmyigloo6 days ago
+2
Large ones
2
nebrivor16 days ago
+2
[ Removed by Listnook ]
2
SenseisSifu6 days ago
+38
Sorry non-billionaire pedophiles ONLY
38
Beranea6 days ago
+30
Not everything has to be about us.
30
Nz_Kasadiya5 days ago
+12
Americans try not to talk about america for 2 seconds challenge.
12
Puzzleheaded-Wait7856 days ago
+21
Poland has a White House?
21
Great-Trifle28106 days ago
+50
Try not to make every single post on listnook about Trump challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
I hate the trog as much as the next guy but Jesus Christ you people can't let any topic go without mentioning him.
50
CockchopsMcGraw6 days ago
+20
I mean he is the world's most famous paedophile now his mate's dead
20
Zanadar6 days ago
+10
Sorry, best we can do is pardoning everyone involved.
10
Anxious-Debate50336 days ago
+422
Get these pricks. Arrest them all, whether in Poland or any country in the world.
Absolute filth of the earth.
Whatever God is out there / support systems in place for these kids, may they get the absolute best assistance and care and I wish them a fulfilling and meaningful life after a successful recovery.
422
Clean-Temporary76076 days ago
+128
Good job Poland police! Rid those sums off the face of the earth!
128
thiefofalways13136 days ago
+142
Why are there so many people in this world that want to f*** kids?
142
CMDR_Agony_Aunt6 days ago
+172
I've done a bit of looking into it. To add on to what the other guy said, its a lot more nuanced than that. Not all of them want to f*** kids, some would never touch a kid inappropriately, its more of a fantasy thing. There is a suggestion that some would progress from looking to touching and more, although i'm not sure how much research has been done into that.
Problem with research in this area is its very hard to actually do the research or get reliable information/results, because its such a taboo area. Its probably ten times easier to research murderers and their motivations.
There's also a gradient (all wrong of course), from those who are attracted to older teens to younger ones, down to toddlers... as the other guy said, some of them is because its a neurology issue, others because of the power.
But if you want to hear something really troubling, while impossible to get firm statistics, some research has claimed as many as 1 in 10 men and 1 in 20 women are attracted to children. Now, i don't know the details of this research, and I guess it could have included people who may have been 18 saying they were attracted to 16 year olds, which isn't surprising, or going by my teenage friend circle, not at all unusual, but the law has to draw a line somewhere, although it does differ from country to country as well, making all such statistics more difficult to interpret.
172
EmpressClaraB6 days ago
+84
> There is a suggestion that some would progress from looking to touching and more, although i'm not sure how much research has been done into that.
It's pretty impossible to do ethical research on this, so we'll likely just never know
84
Blbe-Check-420695 days ago
+20
Which is kinda sad, because if child p*** was actually able to curtail their urges, they might not be danger to society, that is if you disregard the CP production part of course...
EDIT: And since this is obviously hot take, mind explaining to me why you disagree with me?
20
Judson_Scott5 days ago
+32
Additionally, it's nearly impossible for a pedo to get help, even if they've never touched a kid in their life. If the average guy goes to a shrink and admits it, the shrink may have a duty to report, depending on circumstance and locality.
32
Blbe-Check-420695 days ago
+18
Yup that too, feels like we're shooting ourselves in the foot by treating non-offenders as offenders. Meanwhile the US is run by a cabal of paedophiles and they don't seem to care...
18
Chaoticallyorganized5 days ago
+22
You’re being downvoted because you absolutely cannot disregard the harm that producing CSAM causes. Babies and toddlers have been outright sexually tortured and killed during production of such material. Viewing CSAM to prevent pedophiles from abusing other kids isn’t a trade off in the slightest.
22
Blbe-Check-420695 days ago
+11
It doesn't require any further production of it though - just legal access to existing one. And another hot take - AI generated ones might actually bypass the harm completely.
EDIT: Thanks for the answer, it's easy to to just press downvote, rarity to see genuine argument. I appreciate it.
11
finnjakefionnacake5 days ago
+11
depends on if the AI is using real people or not (obviously you can make AI p*** of real people and that is messed up)
11
Chaoticallyorganized5 days ago
+2
Imagine one of those babies was your sister, niece, or daughter. Are you okay with her torture and murder being used over and over again to help sick perverted men get off? Or would you rather any all images of her murder be wiped from every space possible and these men get actual help?
2
Dire-Dog6 days ago
+18
It also really depends on age of consent laws. In a lot of places, 16+ is legal.
18
tthrowaway7125 days ago
+13
If you're interested in the why of things, you might also want to research a little more about the two types of pedophilia - one is inherent, with neurologic traits being the key reason for it, the other one is developed. A person can develop pedophilia for a number of reasons - being mentally stunted, having extremely low self-esteem (adult women are more challenging to approach, have expectations that you need to fulfill, can set boundaries you need to respect, while girls and children don't know yet how to proceed and what to expect in terms of intimacy so - aside from the power disparity - there's no risk of "disappointing" them in the same way that one could disappoint an adult woman) and also, what's the most disturbing and sad aspect of pedophilia - people who have experienced sexual violence in their childhood can have it imprinted in them that this is the "normal" way of doing things and can develop paedophilic tendencies themselves.
13
thatweirdguyted6 days ago
+131
There's two basic reasons:
-There are a number of people doing it for the power dynamic angle. People who want to have control of another, people who lack the ability to socialize with normal adults, people who see an opportunity to take something easily, etc. They're all looking for something vulnerable and easily convinced, and that makes kids a prime target. They're not exclusively attracted to kids, but they're not above using them either.
-There are a number of people who are just straight up biologically hardwired to be attracted to them. It's a neurology issue, they legitimately can't help it. So if they're caring people, they have to spend their whole lives making the choice every day to go hungry. And not all of them have that self control or empathy.
All the studies have shown the overwhelming majority of them were abused or came from dysfunctional homes. If we want to lower.the numbers, we need to be doing more to combat poverty and substance abuse, especially in homes with young kids. They're prime targets for abuse, and also at serious risk of becoming predator later on as a result.
131
Extra_Membership59646 days ago
+22
I will give you one more that is a bit more obscure and does not at all intend to overshadow the ones you mention: some may not have any attraction to the children at all, but fantasize about being the abused child. Often this would stem from if they were actually groomed/abused as children themselves, because those experiences can rewire your brain horribly as you're growing up. There is something in psychology where if a person who was a victim of something ends up with it as a kink, that kink is a form of "taking back control." For the person in this child abuse scenario, the ideal way to act this out would be to not consume CSAM, but instead do ageplay with consenting adults only, but some people may not think or act along those lines.
A super sharp note that it doesn't excuse them at all for participating in this material in any way, they should absolutely face consequences, but I thought I'd offer the nuance.
22
Dire-Dog6 days ago
+50
>There are a number of people who are just straight up biologically hardwired to be attracted to them. It's a neurology issue, they legitimately can't help it.
Thank you for saying this. So many people act like someone just wakes up and goes "I think I'll be attracted to minors today!" when in reality it's just how their brain is wired, they can't help it.
50
CockchopsMcGraw6 days ago
+25
The problem lies in them choosing to act upon it. Secret Life with Matthew MacFadyen is worth a watch, if you have a strong stomach. Very rough watch.
25
Dire-Dog5 days ago
+19
So then they need support so that they don't act on it.
19
xt1nct6 days ago
+14
The 2nd point is very accurate. Unfortunately, there are people who are aroused by “them”. It is biological and technically not something they can control. Just like I am attracted to adult women with breasts. It’s a terrible situation.
I’m not up to date with the research but I think they have been using meds to help. It’s a tough situation. It’s a taboo subject. Someone admitting to it might be worried about getting ridiculed and not getting any real help.
14
Exarch5 days ago
+15
I was curious about why this seems to be such a widespread issue and also came across the neurological explanation as well. I also came across a few sex therapists who treat people with this disorder and they generally say something like: Imagine if you were neurologically hardwired to find inappropriate subjects sexually arousing, and there's no healthy way for you to deal with that. It's a special kind of hell.
Your biology is screaming at you to have sex, your brain is hardwired to direct that biological urge towards inappropriate subjects, and there's *nothing* you can (morally, ethically, healthily) do about it.
I don't at all envy the people who struggle with this.
From what I understand, castration doesn't necessarily work, either, which was surprising to me. Apparently there's more to sexual arousal than just your genitals urging you. A good chunk of it has to do with the brain itself, too.
I don't know if it's possible for these people to have a healthy outlet for these urges. You'd link cartoons or fictional stories would be safe enough since real people aren't involved, but I think experts say these often lead to people acting out their desires IRL when the fictional stuff can no longer provide relief *because* it's not real.
So, like, damn, that *really* sucks.
15
ABetterKamahl12345 days ago
+8
> Someone admitting to it might be worried about getting ridiculed and not getting any real help.
It's probably not a fear of ridicule but the fact that reports, accusation and arrest is a common theme on this topic.
It can be genuinely life-ruining even when the person has committed no actual crimes other than experienced sexual attraction.
It's such a strong view by many that you have people that are willing to harm and kill anyone they *perceive* as being a pedophile, that it can genuinely be a risk to their life to have any admissions to these things. Even if they're entirely intentioned to seek help and never harm a child.
An example is the recent front page article about the guy that was killing sex offenders, a serial killer. Many cheered.
But sex offender registries isn't just pedophiles, it's a whole slew of things. Not the same country as that story but a coworker got put on our national registry at a previous workplace. His crime? Peeing outside while at work drunk, physically in view and legally too close to the neighboring elementary school. At 9pm. He worked nights and was often drunk off his ass at work. Honestly not a good dude overall. But he didn't touch kids or expose himself to kids. But he's on the registry for exposure in proximity to an elementary school because he's an idiot. If that serial killer was local, this man could have been murdered, and people would cheer for his death because of the views surrounding sex crimes when children are mentioned.
It's a hard thing to simply call a stigma, as it's not views inherently unjustified, especially when actual abuse of a child is involved. But in my country you can be legally convicted of pedophilia for drawings, too. People have *strong* negative views of people attracted to minors.
Anyone unfortunate enough to be attracted to minors is already in a bad spot, even when they do their utmost to not commit any crimes. The biological aspect of the biological imperative *really* is likely to make it incredibly difficult to manage by ignoring it. Like shit man, I watch a fair bit of p***, especially when I was younger, satisfied my urges frequently. But the thought of everything I'm into being simply illegal, hard to obtain and basically life altering to engage with, would probably drive me mad.
8
arrivederci1176 days ago
+8
It's 123 people. Poland has almost 38 million people. That's nothing in the Grand scheme of things.
8
AstroPedastro5 days ago
+2
I think some people can go from normal p*** to more extreme, where this, child p***, is one of those extremes like snuff, r***, etc.
Also in general p*** genres go to extremes. I mean "step daughter", "teacher", "school girl", "teen", etc. I think people get in touch with content on the internet that they normally would not even have an interest in. I was shown as an intern by other interns stuff from Rotten. I can not unsee that shit. Apparently some people get their kicks in going to extremes.
2
GaddockTeegFunPolice6 days ago
+205
'Kurwa why is sundays church service cancelled?'
205
Good_Restaurant156 days ago
+22
'Stop pulling my pizzle!'
22
laserbern6 days ago
+9
pizzle yanked
9
Good_Restaurant155 days ago
+7
JESUS CHRIST ^^^^protect^^^^me !!!!!!
7
Thunder_bird_125 days ago
+4
Wow, a small club here
Jesus Christ be praised
4
xt1nct6 days ago
+3
My Polish brothers need to cut out the middle man and speak with god directly.
3
xc2215x5 days ago
+19
Credit to Poland. A brilliant arrest to see.
19
Efficient_Market12346 days ago
+25
It horrifies me to think how many of these people are actually out there. I feel like every time we catch 100+ like this, it's *still* just the tip of a very horrible iceberg.
25
MrLink44445 days ago
+6
Poland 1 - 0 Usa
6
Dry_Departure_78136 days ago
+202
But the DOW is over 50k how are the police able to arrest pedofiles?
202
Beranea6 days ago
+68
This is Poland, the country in between Central and Eastern Europe, not Poland, Maine.
68
baqarah13376 days ago
+76
It's 49910 now so theyre finally allowed to
76
Dry_Departure_78136 days ago
+17
Oh thats great news, hopefully police around the world will make use of this small window
17
Siiciie6 days ago
+45
Almost like DOW is an American index.
45
VoopityScoop6 days ago
+6
It doesn't have anything to do with American law enforcement, either. That's the entire point, the American Attorney General tried to point to the DOW to deflect from the Department of Justice doing nothing about a pedophile ring, but the DOW has no relevance to any justice system anywhere.
6
IAmTheFlyingIrishMan6 days ago
+6
Does Pam Bondi know that?
6
ignis8886 days ago
+10
you mean that DOW (polish concern, a world leader in the production of plastics and chemicals for the processing industry) have something 50k that prevent somehow arresting pedophiles? You should report this immediatelly
10
holyspiderman15 days ago
+5
Insert the Simpson meme on that’s how you deal with a pedophile
5
xjuggernaughtx5 days ago
+5
It's pretty sad that in today's world, 123 pedophiles doesn't seem like a massive operation at all. I feel like that's the pedophiles that you'd uncover with a sting operation in any small city. I think that the uncomfortable truth is that pedophiles are much more widespread than many of us would have thought just twenty years ago. It's good to rip off the band-aid, but man... it's super ugly underneath.
5
whodisguy5 days ago
+3
1600 Pennsylvania ave
3
SadMall62723 days ago
+4
Come get the one in the white house
4
DividedState5 days ago
+5
They should have invited president Trump and his administration before the operation.
5
louisa19255 days ago
+2
Hopefully next time. 🤞
2
VRchaeologist6 days ago
+25
Damn, we could beat that just during the SOTU
25
kumgongkia5 days ago
+4
Will Trump invade Poland to save his kind?
4
a_shiny_heatran6 days ago
+20
God, I see what you’ve done for others and I want that for me. Please bring the mass pedo arrests to the US
20
Paraphrasing_6 days ago
+14
But who's gonna lead operation Epstein Fury?
14
otherwisepandemonium5 days ago
+5
Now release the Epstein Files and conduct a massive anti-pedophile operation within every corner of the United States government.
5
_Schrodingers_Gat_6 days ago
+17
Can you come to the USA next?
17
LexKY_guy5 days ago
+6
Poland recognizes that these people need to be jailed. The USA is ok with these people being free because they have money and the POTUS controls the DOJ.
6
Unlucky-Bunch-73895 days ago
+2
The USA has zero issue running these same kind of stings and investigations against randos. It’s only rich people and politicians that get away with it. I assume it’s probably the same in every country though. I doubt rich oligarch polish get in trouble for it. Same as the USA
2
PuzzledKaiser5 days ago
+2
You have a bit of work to do, but it can be done.
2
Parking-Channel78565 days ago
+2
123 predators off the streets in one sweep. Poland isn’t playing around. This is what a real cleanup looks like. Massive win for child safety!
Protecting the most vulnerable should always be the priority. Let’s make this the global standard.
2
Thin-Usual-43595 days ago
+2
Good job Poland
2
Spiritual_Many_56753 days ago
+2
I’ll own up to not reading the article but if the headline is reflective of it then all I have to say is: Good. More countries should do this.
2
Former-Science17343 days ago
+2
Good - the people making the pedo content are the ones that really need to get bent over
2
unclesaltywm5 days ago
+4
Nobody rich or powerful right?
4
Ill_Bridge17665 days ago
+3
They wouldn't be called powerful if they could be arrested just like that, like normal people
3
AhrEeThrowaway5 days ago
+5
If this happened in the United States, our government would collapse.
5
idgarad5 days ago
+2
Hey Interpol about that Operation Rescue with the 70,000 member pedo ring... you managed to arrest ... what 0.26% of the members? Then Blackwrist found another 60k pedo ring and arrested 9... Yet Poland can get 123?
The f*** does Interpol even do if they can even manage a 1% arrest rate...
2
Dizzy_Horse_1055 days ago
+2
Massive pedophile operation in the US, 0 detailed.
2
burtgummer456 days ago
+9
> “This operation once again shows that there is no tolerance for the sexual exploitation of children, including material created using AI,”
Weird thing to say
9
CockchopsMcGraw6 days ago
+2
How so? Pretty healthy position to take in my view.
2
susulaima5 days ago
+23
How is creating AI of a non-existent child "sexual exploitation"? Who are you exploiting exactly, and how is it different than h***** drawings of non-existent children? Note I'm not talking about AI created from real children, which has a stronger argument against it.
23
marshsmellow5 days ago
+8
I would say it perpetuates a desire and a market for real victim casm. If it wasn't illegal it would become normalised.
8
pkjoan5 days ago
+2
Nice, very nice. Let's see US anti-pedophile operation.
2
MuthaPlucka5 days ago
+2
I wonder how much of a tariff Trump will put on them.
2
marr5 days ago
+2
Any of them rich and powerful?
2
cmlambert895 days ago
+3
If there’s one thing I’ve learned in the last few years, it’s that everyone’s a pedophile.
3
FoolishProphet_23365 days ago
+3
See? It can be done if the people in power choose to.
3
Ryan19801236 days ago
+5
Can they swing over to the White House once they’re done? Must be a few dozen there.
5
djasonpenney6 days ago
-1
Any orange pedophiles in the investigation?
-1
kevin402can6 days ago
-4
Will the US grant them special immigrant status and then give them positions in governement?
-4
Smackazulu6 days ago
+1
America about to have a presser on why Poland is anti freedom
199 Comments