ListNook

Consistent_Ad3181 2 days ago +147

The US defence industry does very very well out of NATO. Europe can soon change that, inward investment, better technology, cheaper etc.

147

CantFeelMyToesAgain 2 days ago +31

Yeah if the US actually tries to pull out they’re going to be the next North Korea lmao.

31

Consistent_Ad3181 2 days ago +40

No that's over stating the case the US spends trillions in defence, but the EU also spends a great deal, some of which is internal and a good portion is external with the US. The issue isn't just the loss of a good chunk of EU money but the rest of the world, if they have better cheaper options because the EU decides to flip the defence investment switch the US will lose a significant part of ROW spending too. EU is a sleeping giant.

40

Jealous_Response_492 2 days ago +43

Without the 31 US bases in Europe, the US looses much of it's global strike capability including the Middle East, without NATO allies the current war against Iran couldn't happen.

43

ferrarinobrakes 2 days ago +8

So it’s good that US pulls out of NATO then?

8

DexJedi 2 days ago +23

Like most things in life this is not black or white. Both scenario's has pros and cons. But Europe should not fall for this blackmail of pulling out. If he wants to do it, do it. Pulling out will cost the US many millions by the way. If not into the billions.

23

Jealous_Response_492 1 day ago +7

Exactly, Rutte IMHO should be laying bare the consequences of US withdrawal to th US National & International interests, NATO very much is in the US Interests and always has been. Europe and Canada can carry NATO if need be without the USA.

7

CantFeelMyToesAgain 1 day ago +4

I think as much shit as people give Rutte he’s desperately lying to Trumps face to keep him calm and then just taking the flak himself.

4

Jealous_Response_492 1 day ago +1

Possibly, but if the reports of an ultimatum for NATO to get involved from the Whitehouse are true, then it's failed as technique for handling the situation.

1

DexJedi 1 day ago +3

Let's not sugarcoat it, NATO will be much weaker without the US. They still have the biggest and best military in the world. But as getting blackmailed should never be an option there is little alternative.

3

SirCharlesTupperBt 1 day ago +9

Right, but ultimately we need to accept that the United States simply isn't a reliable ally any longer. It's not so much a question of whether or not the United States will be there if WW3 breaks out, a serious defence planner in NATO needs to start assuming they won't, unless they intend to be people who are blamed for NATO falling due to a lack of strategic realism. In the medium-long term NATO will be stronger if the United States leaves, for the rest of us NATO has always been a defensive alliance that is the bedrock of our respective national security policies. The Americans bring a lot of cool toys and warm bodies, but the fact that they keep trying to turn it into an offensive alliance to support American domestic political goals has weakened our resolve and unity. The only real risk with the US leaving is whether or not MAGA manages to turn itself into an actual enemy of NATO. This is not an opportune moment to deal with another aggressive neighbour on our borders, we've already got a hot war on our borders with Russia and Ukraine. But if NATO can weather a period of stress, we have all the capabilities and resources to fully replace the United States over the next 10-15 years.

9

CantFeelMyToesAgain 1 day ago +3

No it won’t be. The US is actively helping Russia now

3

DexJedi 1 day ago +1

Yes, unfortunately everything points in that direction. But they are not yet actively supplying weapons or disrupting Europe physically. Europe (and Ukraine) can not really afford that to happen.

1

Mackanpackan93 1 day ago +2

NATO without the US is a larger military than the US Is alone... The US is also FAR more likely to get into conflicts than the rest of NATO is. Russia isn't going to attack a NATO member, Russia only bullies smaller neighbours that aren't in defensive alliances. China also has zero interest whatsoever in getting into a conflict with Europe. The US needs NATO far more than the rest, even if NATO was to disband completely the EU still has its own defense alliance and has nukes too. Going to war with the EU would be one of the most stupid and nonsensical things to ever do. There's literally not a single reason to do it.

2

DexJedi 1 day ago +1

And at the end of the day my point still stands. The US is still, overall, the most advanced military right now. NATO will be weaker when they leave. The US will also be a lot weaker. In your line of thinking regarding your other comment to me; Russia IS actively attacking NATO member. They cross our borders, hack our systems, cut our cables, influence our elections and assassinate people on our soil. So Russia is absolutely going to bully in every way except (probably) open warfare. The question is however... are Spanish men and women going to bleed over a small bombing or incursion in Lithuania? Are we going to start nuclear war over in village in Lithuania (for example)? That might be something Russia could test. It is not without reason countries like Lithuania quit the Ottawa Treaty in 2025. Without the US Europe is less able to project power in Asia and protect allies like Taiwan. At the same time, with Europe the US will have a hard time reaching the Middle East in the current state of affairs.

1

Ok-Ad-852 1 day ago +1

Nato will still be a powerhouse without the US. Only China and the US will have similar capabilities or better. Russia if you count all their Nukes, but after a certain number it doesnt really matter much if you have a 1000 or 5000 The US will also be alot weaker without the rest of NATO. It will probably hurt more than Europe from the split. Remember its leaving a partnership that favoured them heavily. Much of US soft power came from having 30 countries backing them up no matter what. While the europeans has been held back by US policies on alot of stuff. Because we needed to cater to them to stroke their ego.

1

CantFeelMyToesAgain 1 day ago +1

This guy gets it

1

Mackanpackan93 1 day ago +5

The US can't operate its military globally without help from its allies, NATO without the US is also a larger military than the US is alone

5

heavy_metal_soldier 1 day ago +1

Yeah well at this point it's about time we stop sleeping Actually, that point was 12 years ago but I digress

1

Calimariae 2 days ago +421

I bet Jens is happy his period was over before the circus started.

421

Gerf93 2 days ago +116

I mean, he was in charge during the last circus and handled it quite well.

116

Calimariae 2 days ago +113

Round 2 is so much worse.

113

Gerf93 2 days ago +39

Cant argue with that.

39

BringBackAoE 2 days ago +115

Jens was apparently dubbed “the Trump Whisperer” by European leaders for how good he was at handling Trump. Trump still calls him. Ref the call Trump made to Stoltenberg last year, saying Norway could avoid tariffs if Trump got the Peace Prize. Rutte in contrast just kisses a$$, and Trump never respects that.

115

Tilladarling 2 days ago +37

Yes. He has Trump’s private number and told a Norwegian newspaper that he picks up when he calls. Currently, he’s the Minister of Finance. Sadly, he can’t seem to get it into Trump’s thick skull that he can’t give TACO the Peace Prize. Jens Stoltenberg comes from a family of career diplomats and it shows

37

Calimariae 2 days ago +26

Yes, there are some great insights about this in his biography that released last year

26

Tilladarling 2 days ago +7

I bet he is. I bet he also could’ve handled this far better than the current bootlicker in charge

7

Red_River_Metis 2 days ago +183

F*** Trump

183

ButterscotchFancy912 2 days ago +19

You have a way with words

19

sVirus66 1 day ago +4

Even his wife doesn't want to look at him for free.

4

IDreamOfSailing 2 days ago +3

Yes, but also: ewwww gross!

3

Mindless-Tomorrow-93 2 days ago +305

Look... He's one guy in all of Europe who's job is to run interference with the orange idiot narcissist. I don't love the optics, but from a practical standpoint, we can have this one guy flatter Mango Mussolini while the rest of us decouple from the sinking ship.

305

soulstormfire 2 days ago +113

But ass kissing isn't how you handle a narcissist.

113

Mindless-Tomorrow-93 2 days ago +98

His job isn't to "handle" the narcissist. His job is to distract the narcissist.

98

the_blackfish 2 days ago +35

Has he considered jingling a set of keys?

35

Mindless-Tomorrow-93 2 days ago +23

If they're spray painted with gaudy gold paint, it might just work.

23

ResistiveBeaver 2 days ago +7

Is "keys" some sort of sex trafficking slang?

7

the_blackfish 2 days ago +4

No, just jingly things you'd use to get a pet's attention.

4

curorororo 2 days ago +16

you couldve fooled me, looks to me like his job is to ovulate for the narcassist.

16

Tenkehat 2 days ago +3

Exactly my thought, he's "taking one for the team".

3

Shadowwynd 2 days ago +13

If you have the power, you can b**** slap the narcissist. If you don’t, you convince the narcissist that your ideas are really his ideas and he is so smart for thinking of him and so wonderful- it plays for time long-term and might accomplish something short-term.

13

soulstormfire 2 days ago

I am talking about neither. What I'm talking about is drawing red lines and being true to them. It doesn't need much power for that. Especially not the withwashing of enablers like you just did.

0

Darth_Nox501 2 days ago +8

It doesn't work that way with Trump. If you want something out of him, you swoon him. That's something that's been mastered by Carney, for example. Other figures like Putin and Netanyahu almost definitely have some dirt on him that would annihilate the support he still has. He respects people like Xi because even someone as psychotic and ignorant as him acknowledges that our two countries are intertwined, and that it's best not to f*** with China. The head of NATO doesn't have any dirt on him, and doesn't have his underlying respect, so he needs to resort to option 1 in order to get things that benefit the Alliance as a whole. If that means kissing up to him, so be it. He's doing more for the West than you or I ever will by typing about it. What you're proposing is fantasy and just not realistic. It works with a schoolyard bully, not with the leader of the strongest military and economy in the world.

8

BioFrosted 1 day ago +1

isn't it? I feel that's exactly how you handle a narcissist if that narcissist happens to hold much power and you're trying to stay under the radar until you're fully independent.

1

Distinct_Cup_1598 2 days ago +46

Are we though? Plus, if you represent NATO, sucking up to an Enemy of NATO at some Point doesn’t do the Job requirement anymore

46

Mindless-Tomorrow-93 2 days ago +50

The fact is, the US is in NATO, the US has a massive military presence on our continent, and from a practical standpoint, we need one guy to try to manage the unstable idiot on the other side of the pond.

50

Altruistic_Finger669 2 days ago +9

Thats in name only. The US is for all intent and purposes out of nato. Its over. They would come to our aid. Rip off the bandage

9

Mindless-Tomorrow-93 2 days ago +1

The "bandage" has a massive army occupying our continent.

1

Altruistic_Finger669 2 days ago +11

Yeah. I dont give a f***. Those armies are completely dependent on supplies from around. Are you seriously suggesting we just let them do what they want because we allow them bases on our soil!? You cant be this spineless. Why would we then allow that. The US cant accept even mild economic discomfort. Stop acting like they can do shit to us without their population rioting. Look what happened after a month of just slightly high gas prices.

11

Mindless-Tomorrow-93 2 days ago +5

You're welcome to go up against them if you think it is so easy.

5

Mac62961 1 day ago +1

The second that army leaves Russia will move in

1

RoughVirtual1626 2 days ago +17

It would be more detrimental to the US to lose those bases. We should thank them for their time here and send them on their way back to the US

17

Mindless-Tomorrow-93 2 days ago +12

I'm sure that's known to people smarter than Trump. Again, Rutte is just one guy. He's not the only guy.

12

RoughVirtual1626 2 days ago +2

But really what benefit is the US to NATO? Like Europe would manage just fine against Russia and breaking away from US arms manufacturers could really help a lot with f European countries economies. Who wants to be allies with a country with such contempt for our soldiers who died in US wars. The US is the only country to invoke NATO defence. And for what? F*** them

2

Mindless-Tomorrow-93 2 days ago +10

If Americans weren't knuckle dragging idiots, it could be a completely unstoppable alliance.

10

RoughVirtual1626 2 days ago +2

Unstoppable for what. It's Purley a defensive org

2

Mindless-Tomorrow-93 2 days ago +4

Defense, mainly.

4

iFraqq 1 day ago +5

Most of our (Europe) defense is dependant on the US, be it weapons or command structures. Europe needs time to develop enough capacity to be self-sufficient. To significantly change it takes multiple years. The truth is that we still have very little power projection.

5

Distinct_Cup_1598 2 days ago +24

Yes. But the Point is Appeasement at all cost is simply not „managing the unstable idiot“. There is a Point where you have to Take a stand if you want the Alliance to survive or if you want to appeal to a lunatic traitor

24

notataco007 2 days ago +13

There hasn't been any cost at all. Rutte just says meaningless words to appease Trump to prevent the obviously Russian induced dissolution of NATO. Any Listnookor by now in his position would've gladly obliged Putin by now.

13

Mindless-Tomorrow-93 2 days ago +19

And my point is that asking one guy to run interference isn't "appeasement at all costs." The whole reason the orangutan is pissed off is because NATO told him to pound sand and that we're not bailing him out in Iran. That's not appeasement. This should be obvious?

19

Distinct_Cup_1598 2 days ago +4

Yes. But i want to Point out that stand was made by NATO members individually. A stand that was weakened by the NATO Chief who Chose to praise the fascists in Washington and their allies instead of confirming the stand NATOs members took

4

New-Aside-6805 2 days ago +12

Yes, we want the stand to be weakened... This isnt a movie where we b**** slap the villain and sail off into the sunset We need the Yanks to be somewhat happy because like it or night we're severely dependent on them in Ukraine. We have no way of substituting Starlink and if that goes away that would be extremely suboptimal in addition to energy and trade reliance. We spent decades building that reliance so unfortunately its here. So yes, not giving him material concessions is good but we need someone to make them a bit more palatable

12

KiaRioGrl 2 days ago +3

Canada's working on Telesat but there's a long way to go to catch up.

3

Mindless-Tomorrow-93 2 days ago +13

Yup, ok, you've pointed that out. NATO is not in Iran, and one guy in Europe is dealing with Mango Mouthbreather. No one's "stand" has been weakened.

13

KiaRioGrl 2 days ago +1

My understanding is that it never even made it to a NATO vote, that enough countries told him individually they wouldn't participate it became a moot point. He just loves throwing tantrums and finding scapegoats.

1

Svardskampe 2 days ago +2

Which cost? ReArm 2030 is going brr, NATO still exists meanwhile.

2

ViolettaQueso 2 days ago +1

Precisely.

1

rcanhestro 2 days ago +11

yup, his entire job is to keep NATO intact, not destroy it. if kissing Trump's ass for a couple of years is how he does it, as long as it works it's fine.

11

Sarellion 2 days ago +13

I don't think that approach works with Trump. I get the idea but it seems everyone trying to appease him is sorted into the "weakling to be bullied and made fun of category." Guy humiliated the saudi crown prince in public. Not that I am complaining, that one despicable man is insulting another one, but it looks to me like the only thing you get from Trump for buttering him up is a nasty grin and getting dunked in the metaphorical toilet.

13

rcanhestro 2 days ago +6

those countries have two choices: create massive issues with the US, or "eat shit" for a while until someone sane returns to the white house. the second option is what the major powers have chosen. they are treating Trump as a pest, sure, they have to spend some money to get rid of it, but it's better then the nuclear option of burning your own house to end it.

6

Sarellion 2 days ago +3

I meant I get the impression that being sycophantic doesn't work at all and is actually counter productive in gaining Trump's favor. It just seems to embolden him to do whatever he wants with you. But seems the only people he's fond of are actual dictators like Putin or Kim.

3

rcanhestro 2 days ago +3

> I meant I get the impression that being sycophantic doesn't work at all and is actually counter productive in gaining Trump's favor. they are not trying to earn his favour, they are trying to mitigate his madness. he is basically a (shit covered) storm countries are just waiting to pass by.

3

Defiant-Plane4557 2 days ago +2

Has Putin ever kissed his ass? I think we should learn from Putin on how to handle Trump because he's his true master.

2

OhWellImRightAgain 2 days ago +8

Aren't you people tired of parroting this ignorant bullshit? Aren't you embarrassed after actually typing this shit? APPEASEMENT DOES NOT WORK. Open a history book. Flattering a narcissist makes him behave worse.

8

Mindless-Tomorrow-93 2 days ago +10

This isn't appeasement, dipshit. Is NATO currently stuck in Iran with the idiots? No? Then we're not appeasing anyone. We're sending one mediocre diplomat, out of a continent of a few hundred million people, to distract the guy who's military is currently occupying our countries. That's not appeasement. That's just reality.

10

OhWellImRightAgain 2 days ago +1

Distract him? Are you 12? Do you live in a cave? Donald Trump, under Rutte's NATO leadership, is literally threatening Greenland, Canada, Spain, threatening to leave NATO, talking shit about all of his NATO allies including their biggest ally, the UK, mocks countries that sent their soldiers to wars and died for the US, calls EU ships "toys", says he doesn't need the EU. What in the f*** do you think Rutte is distracting him from, when ALL TRUMP DOES is talk shit about NATO and threaten his allies? Do you even know what the word distract means?

1

Mindless-Tomorrow-93 2 days ago +15

No, I'm not 12, but Trump is (mentally). And yes, I do know. Trump talks, a lot. Let him talk. Talk is c****. Rutte is one guy. There's a few hundred million more Europeans who have more work today. Rutte is doing Rutte's job. The rest of us need to do ours.

15

OhWellImRightAgain 2 days ago +1

This is the exact point you're missing: Rutte is NOT doing his job. His job is to represent and defend 32 NATO countries, not the unhinged US administration. His job isn't to make public statements that NATO without the US is trash. His job is to reprimand NATO countries that threaten allies, not flatter their leaders.

1

JaxStrumley 2 days ago +12

You really should look at it from another angle. Rutte is trying to keep Trump in. That gives the European leaders room to take a critical stance against Trump, and, in the meantime, work like crazy on getting less dependent on the US. What Rutte does is giving them political room and time to do that. Because NATO is not ready to lose the US tomorrow. That would immediately endanger the Baltic states. But hopefully it will be ready to lose the US next year.

12

iFraqq 1 day ago +3

It really baffles me people do not understand this. Europe has left their military too weak for too long, became dependant on the US military complex. We need all the time we can get to re-arm and be independent.

3

JaxStrumley 1 day ago +3

Yes. But be careful blaming Europe too much… up till now, the US has always prevented Europe from becoming too independent.

3

Mindless-Tomorrow-93 2 days ago +6

What makes you think so?

6

Silentrein 2 days ago +2

You forgot the (illegal per the Supreme Court) extortion of our *allies* via tariffs. That's kind of a big one and one that I hope begets significant economic consequences for my country in the future 🤞

2

magsbad13 1 day ago +1

I didn't respect your opinion because you called the person you were replying to "dipshit" and there's no need for immature name calling.

1

Mindless-Tomorrow-93 1 day ago +1

Ok, I'll get over it, but thanks for sharing your internal monologue.

1

Altruistic_Finger669 2 days ago +3

No. Just no. It doesnt work to just embarrassing yourself over and over. Trump doesnt respect that. Scaramucci knows trump for many years and he says exactly that. He is sure trump is making fun of him behind his back

3

Mac62961 2 days ago -4

Trump turns my stomach but without the US Nato will be a shell and would not be good for US either Trump will be gone. We were together before him and will be after. Nato was and is a good organization that is better together than apart. Putin is not intimidated by much of europe but thinks twice when there is united Nato.

-4

Mindless-Tomorrow-93 2 days ago +5

Yeah... I don't need to like the situation, but I do have to recognize that we have to work through it in a way that is practical, and not emotional.

5

12Fox13 2 days ago +1

This comment will age like milk the moment the US regime attackts Greenland, which, let’s be honest, is going to happen sooner or later.

1

CathodeRaySamurai 2 days ago +43

For the record: this man GUTTED the Dutch military. I'm not being hyperbolic, the budget cuts during his government were utterly draconian. To see him now as the person that represents NATO...all I can do is shake my head in disbelief.

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JaxStrumley 2 days ago +45

The whole Dutch parliament was in favor of those cuts… especially the left wing parties. Can’t blame that on one guy.

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leviathan65 2 days ago +11

Agreed. The Dutch population was in favor for it too. That was before trump started threatening Greenland and shit but still. I'm still in favor of US military budget cuts no matter the military situation. These fucks spend more than the next 3 nations combined and complain its not enough.

11

SavedByHisGraceOnly 2 days ago +6

Really? Hmmm, I have no active memory of that. /s

6

xnmyl 1 day ago +1

Rutte is one of the best politicians in the world at handling Trump. NATO would likely be in a worse position without him

1

Blank3k 2 days ago +8

Anytime I hear him praise Trump the way he does, I just assume hes going above and beyond for his job, has a strong stomach and knows that for NATO he 'must' keep America on side. Although with Trump openly being a genocidal maniac it would seem even the forced stomach churning fellating he's been doing for the better good is now just a mouthful of poison. Id love to to hear him return to NATO and just openly say he's had enough of the false niceties & warn that if Trumperica comes for Greenland it's going to be a dark day for the world but assure them that the American body bags from that excursion will be substantial.

8

xnmyl 1 day ago +1

That type of rhetoric would not be effective against Trump, nor would it be effective with the American people Trump wants to prove how big and strong he is. He would respond like a petulant child if told the American body bags would be substantial

1

Orpa__ 2 days ago +216

MAGA Mark needs to be replaced asap, this guy never fails to disappoint.

216

Ozryela 2 days ago +141

Speaking as a Dutch person who's always opposed him: Mark Rutte is many things, but MAGA is not one of them. Politically Rutte is a fairly run-of-the-mill European liberal. Economically always one the side of businesses and capitalism, but not conservative when it comes to social issues. During Trump's first term he was one of the European leaders who was best at dealing with Trump. That's the whole reason he was put in charge of NATO. He got hired to suck up to Trump, and that's what he's doing. Is it the best strategy to deal with him? I'm genuinely unsure. But either way you can't really blame him for doing what he was hired to do. The thing that makes Rutte unique is that he genuinely has no ego. I don't think I've ever seen anybody quite like that. He just genuinely doesn't care if people are laughing at him or think he's weak. He genuinely doesn't care about looking tough or about 'winning' or anything like that. That's why he is known as Teflon Mark. No scandal can stick to him because he is just genuinely unaffected by it. He doesn't care, and he has such a strong aura of not caring that voters (subconsciously) end up not seeing anything wrong. In a sense he's like a weird opposite of Trump. Trump has the same property that no scandal sticks to him, but for Trump it's because he's such a raging narcissist that he's just genuinely incapable of thinking he might be wrong.

141

JaxStrumley 2 days ago +51

Exactly. Also: his sucking up to Trump creates room for the (elected and hoping to be re-elected!) European leaders to distance themselves from Trump. So Europe can use the stick and the carrot. Rutte is no fool and I’m sure he realizes that sooner or later Trump will leave NATO. But every month he can be kept in is a month in which Europe can work on independence. Rutte’s main job is to buy time. When Trump pulls the US out of NATO he will immediately lose almost all leverage over his former allies. Then the gloves come off and Europe can start hurting the US economically. The trade bazooka is ready for use!

51

AtheIstan 2 days ago +5

Agreed, though it's unlikely that Trump can even pull out of NATO officially due to that law that was signed. Unofficially, he can pull out of NATO though.

5

JaxStrumley 2 days ago +6

True! The biggest risk NATO runs at the moment is when Putin attacks the Baltic states. These are small countries, so it will be easier for Putin to occupy them (simply because there is not a lot of room to fight in). If that happens while US is still in NATO, Trump can simply refuse to come to their aid. Then the European allies + Canada will be at war with Russia on their own. However: this will not be an easy sell for Trump at home. True, many Americans will like not sending troops to war. On the other hand: the Baltic states were never behind in paying their NATO dues and never refused the US when they were asked to do something (the US didn’t often ask them, but that’s besides the point). So if Trump would refuse to help them, it would be a way worse look for him than if he refused to help, say, Spain or Italy. It would make him look even more like a cowardly traitor who is working for Putin.

6

Koseoglu-2X4B-523P 2 days ago +2

Genuinely?

2

Orpa__ 2 days ago +1

Calling him MAGA was an exaggeration, I don't believe he's being genuine because he never is. It's more about what he represents, that is endless appeasement of the US' whims. Too many red lines have been crossed already and it's time for us to start getting ahead of events instead of begging the US not to ruin us.

1

KingRo48 2 days ago +8

MAGA is the first word you use! Read the responses to your statement and learn. NATO countries need time to ‘arm up’ and get reorganised and Rutte is buying that time by being a sleaze ball. Good on him.

8

Pslun 2 days ago +44

It worked for a while but it just doesn't anymore and he can't keep trying the same old trick over and over.

44

thefunkybassist 2 days ago +18

Well, he's definitely still that "always keep smiling" guy that we know from his prime minister time

18

Pitiful_Hedgehog6343 2 days ago +3

He just needs to kiss ass a bit longer and save NATO, don't be fooled.

3

mrObelixfromgaul 2 days ago +1

Ask Mark where his text messages went during his time as prime minister.

1

fretkat 2 days ago +2

He deleted them to make space on his old Nokia 3100, right? To be fair, he probably had one of the best-secured phones among political leaders at the time.

2

xnmyl 1 day ago +1

If it weren't for Rutte, Trump would have collapsed NATO during his first presidency. It was Rutte who was able to bring Trump back to the table when he was PM. That's why he was chosen for his current role It's baffling to me people think he's MAGA or did a bad job. Trump has wanted to leave or dismantle NATO since day 1. The fact he hasn't yet is a testament to Rutte's ability to work Trump

1

kl7aw220 2 days ago -6

I was wondering when the EU would get rid of this Trump supporter.

-6

Public-Finger 2 days ago +29

I wouldn't call him a trump supporter, I'd call him someone making a good faith effort to speak to the toddler in chief with hopes of softening trumps antagonism. It didn't work, but the effort was necessary, no matter how humiliating.

29

ZuAusHierDa 2 days ago +13

What has the EU to do with this?

13

Think_Positively 2 days ago +9

The Sec General is Dutch, not American. The article implies that he was a simp for Trump (I agree fwiw) in what might have been an effort to keep Trump happy, but now no one wants anything to do with anyone who supports orange man.

9

ZuAusHierDa 2 days ago +11

I still don’t get the EU connection. The EU is a separate institution and not every eu member is also part in nato.

11

RoughVirtual1626 2 days ago +1

Because America is a threat to EU member states and the blocks ecconomy as a whole. The EU has sway over how the members will act and the EU has it's own bilateral defense agreements outside of NATO.

1

ViolettaQueso 2 days ago +9

Tonight hopefully.

9

Lost-Transitions 2 days ago +14

The most annoying thing is how stupid all of this is, and so unnecessary. America built NATO, it represents their interests and soft power across the globe. But one moron can't see past his own a******, starts a war that nobody wanted, nobody needed and nobody can win so he just brings it all down. And America just lets him do it, against their own national interests. Maybe remove him power? No? Just watch your country burn? Ok then.

14

WhereIsMyPony 2 days ago +2

There is a disconnect between American rhetoric and American reality. We urge each other to 'save democracy' at the ballot box every four years, yet we forget that we are voting every single day with labor and our money. We scream into the digital void and pace the streets for an afternoon, but our lives remain the fuel for the very machinery we claim to hate. We enrich the regime’s allies with every dollar we spend and sustain them with every hour we work. We have traded true resistance for the safety of a sidewalk sign, essentially bankrolling our own decline. Until we realize that our wallets are more powerful than our hashtags—and that a boycott is more effective than a chant—our dissent is just background noise to an administration that knows we aren't actually going anywhere.

2

bicycle-made-for2 2 days ago +5

Totally agree. It has been embarrassing watching him constantly bend the knee to Trump. One thing he forgets is that bullying dictators may be appeased in the short term by that attitude, but there is no respect and eventually the worm will turn and it will all have been for nothing

5

NutsyFlamingo 2 days ago +11

Just curious, what would people here like him to say and what outcome would they then want from it, realistically?

11

Distinct_Cup_1598 2 days ago +25

Well, if you want to keep the alliance functional at all, then there is a Point where trying to keep the US in no matter the cost just don’t benefit this goal anymore. And ass-kissing a Regime that wages Economic war against NATO, Supports NATO enemies, threatens to Take NATO territory, compromises NATO security and hinders NATO functionality might not, well….benefit NATO

25

xnmyl 1 day ago +1

NATO is structured around America. Most NATO countries are specialized around supporting America, using American arms NATO should change this approach, but that is at a minimum a decade long process to reorient

1

NutsyFlamingo 2 days ago +1

I hear ya. I don’t really put much weight on words good or bad in this. Just looking at outcomes prepared for as consequence. These politicians will all be fine, it’s us people all that matters.

1

Gecks777 2 days ago +11

What's said in public can be very flattering, IDC. I hope and pray that what's said in private is a simple explanation that NATO can continue just fine without the US, that if the US leaves NATO, they will lose all their bases on NATO territory and permission to use NATO airspace forever, and that if Trump doesn't stop making statements denigrating the alliance, the US will be ejected regardless, because NATO cannot continue to be organized under a US general if the US doesn't support the alliance. At the end of the day, the US can stay or leave, and NATO is likely to survive either eventuality, but we can't tolerate the US staying in the alliance, getting all the briefings, while undermining the alliance and going rogue all over the world, expecting NATO support. They can be in, or they can be out, but there's no third way.

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rcanhestro 2 days ago +4

> I hope and pray that what's said in private is a simple explanation that NATO can continue just fine without the US you do know that like 50% of all military power of NATO is the US alone. Rutte saying "f*** off Trump, we don't need you" is basically asking for NATO to lose 50% of it's capacity over night.

4

xnmyl 1 day ago +1

Even more importantly is how NATO is structured NATO is structured entirely around the US, with smaller nations being highly specialized This also isn't even touching how dependent NATO is on US arms manufacturers It's a good strategy to decouple from US dependencies, but that is going to he a very long process

1

UnoriginalStanger 2 days ago +2

They're just mad, they aren't thinking logically about any of it.

2

thedld 2 days ago

I would like him to say: if we are sucking up to fascists, we’ve already lost the war. Principles over pragmatism, Mark.

0

NutsyFlamingo 2 days ago +2

Fair. And second part of my question, outcome right now will accept?

2

thedld 2 days ago +4

After making clear what NATO stands for (peace) what it stands against (fascism), I’d accept an outcome where every member country rethinks their position on these goals, and picks sides, whatever they may be. If that means that Trump leaves NATO without the GOP stopping him, shame on them, but so be it. Let’s see the cards. I’m done with the games.

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QuirkyWish3081 2 days ago +5

Europe stay strong with Ukraine, Canada, Greenland, Australia, Japan, South Korea. Strong. 💪 Together!! Thank you for your attention on this matter.

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Appropriate-Net1899 2 days ago +7

>“It’s quite sad that NATO turned their backs on the American people over the course of the last six weeks when it’s the American people who have been funding their defense,” Leavitt said. I think the opposite is true. The US military and economy have been funded by NATO and generally by democratic countries. It would implode without the outside support like buying/holding US bonds or using US dollar as the reserve currency etc.

7

Public-Finger 2 days ago +6

Honestly, he was just trying to do what he was required to do- stoke trumps ego with hopes that he could influence him to get onboard. That failed, but I don't blame him for trying. At this point, I think the correct approach (from all NATO leaders) is to tell trump to just go f*** himself.

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AtheIstan 2 days ago +2

Did it fail though? I thought Rutte had a big part in diffusing the Greenland situation.

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WhereIsMyPony 2 days ago +2

I think he's just buying time for the rest of NATO to stand on its own feet and move away from the dependency on the US. It is already kind of happening with more european investments in european made defense but as everything with europe, it starts slllowwww but once it picks up speed it gets going. The whole job of the NATO Chief is to keep everyone together and talking.

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Persona_Insomnia 1 day ago +2

It seems a massive problem when the NATO chief forgets what a defensive allience is. I think he needs reminding that its not for supporting aggressors in war.

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elliethestaffy 1 day ago +2

I want Jens Stoltenberg back.

2

BenTramer 1 day ago +2

Orange ass kisser

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GrunkTheOrc 2 days ago +4

bout time...he went too far

4

Cold-Interaction8443 2 days ago +4

It's obvious to any sentient being that Trump is taking the US out of the pact. The end result is inevitable so let's stop pandering to his ego as some sort of perverse confirmation of his superiority. Coherent european cooperation will be the key. Sadly, any rapprochment with the US will be decades in the making.

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katalysis 2 days ago +2

Well that's because the NATO chief knows that NATO wouldn't work without the US, and he just needs to tide over 3 more years of this insanity.

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PollPixx 2 days ago +3

Mark should get there with a contract to end the US membership, trump can sign it and Mark gets the f*** out of that shitty country for good. Europe should give the us the finger and move on. Threatening to murder millions of people on your socials should be enough to never talk again with that lying, unreliable, orange b******.

3

pitshands 2 days ago +1

Two absolutely spineless individuals in the room. Of course they like each other.

1

InTooManyWays 2 days ago +1

He must be in the files.

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TooManyGamesNoTime 1 day ago +1

If the usa leaves NATO, there might as well not be a NATO, and then Rutte is out of a job. If the dutch know one thing about Rutte, is that he does what's best for him, not so much for everyone else.

1

Logical_Constant7227 1 day ago +1

I know it chapped Listnooks ass that Rutte said today how much he admires Ronald Reagan lmao US helped UK with the unsanctioned conflict with the Falkan islands despite damaging our relationship with South America. US helped France in unsanctioned conflicts in subsaharan Africa like Chad. US listened to France on Libya and French concerns that Gaddafi would spread his revolutionary pan African idealism to their aforementioned interests in sub Saharan Africa. US was not the driving force behind UN action in Libya, that was France. France is literally a country that has abandoned and then reentered NATO. US led the yugoslav bombing campaign in late 1990s despite the fact that none of the countries involved were in NATO because of European concerns about a genocide on their continent. We bombed them for 7 months, far longer than this action in Iran. US has helped Ukraine more than any other single country, providing crucial logistics and advisers, Abrams tanks, pulling advanced weapons systems, anti air defenses and artillery out of south east Asia and ME because of European concerns about the Russian threat in Europe. Despite the fact that Ukraine is not in NATO and none of this has been sanctioned by the UN. When the concerns of the major European powers are involved, they are not so concerned with whether or not a conflict is “sanctioned” and the US assists them. When US interests are concerned (that they in actuality share with us) they are often unwilling to help. They tell their domestic audience that we are war mongers and then they tell us through private diplomatic channels that they understand what we are doing but they cannot get involved.

1

MyDogThinksISmell 2 days ago

Can NATO realistically survive without the US? Not being facetious.

0

jaquesparblue 2 days ago +13

Sure. Will the deterrent be less effective? Probably as well. But not ineffective. Even without the US, combined defense spending in the rest of NATO would still be 2nd or 3rd in the world. And even without NATO, EU itself has a mutual defense clause. And more or less official defense and cooperation groups have started to appear in the last 10-15 years. Like JEF, NORDEFCO, EI2

13

Zamnaiel 2 days ago +14

NATO is an alliance of 32 states. Without the USA, it is 31 states including two nuclear powers, three great powers, and a number of middle range powers such as Italy, Turkey, Sweden, Poland, Finland etc. NATO has established bases, standards, communications, procedures etc. Its only realistic opponent is Russia, and it outpowers Russia to a degree that is either horrifying or hilarious. Europes military budget exceeds China and Russias put together. Without the US, its the third most powerful military alliance in the world.

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ManchurianMango 2 days ago +7

Only realistic opponent is Russia? What about the states? Didnt the US already threaten to annex 2 NATO nations?

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melody_magical 2 days ago +19

Likely yes [https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/07/europe/nato-ukraine-survive-without-united-states-analysis-intl-hnk-ml](https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/07/europe/nato-ukraine-survive-without-united-states-analysis-intl-hnk-ml)

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NutsyFlamingo 2 days ago +4

I mean, I worked in the EU Parliament and remember how valiantly the people at the WEU tried, to their credit exhaustively… it was mind boggling how no one would do anything but announce more meetings to further discuss, all anyone wanted to do was put out press announcements that they had a meeting .. those guys were finally broken by the bureaucracy

4

MalmerDK 2 days ago +2

What does it matter? The US is not an ally. Cardboard horses won't pull anything in the end.

2

Distinct_Cup_1598 2 days ago +6

If it really wants to and has the will, yes. The EU alone has a bigger Economy, Army and industry than Russia, the Main threat. So if all of NATO (sans US) gets its ass up, it can survive. But That’s expensive and exhausting and needs willpower. Particularly for the hardship of the intermediate time. And the jellyfishes in command prefer the „easier“ way of sucking up to the US Regime in the Hope that Daddy Trump Stays and America might still Act as an ally some day again…

6

Zamnaiel 2 days ago +5

>The EU alone has a bigger Economy, Army and industry than Russia, the Main threat. By a factor of 10 yes. The power difference is horrifyingly large.

5

Money-Engineer6927 2 days ago +4

New name EATO

4

Belegor87 2 days ago +6

We would still have Canada!

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Snarl_Marx 2 days ago +1

Aw man, if Leno were still around we’d get the dancing EATOs!

1

Primarycore 2 days ago +1

Trump would mistake EATO for a new hamburger chain and go visit, better pick a nickname that doesn't accidentally get his attention.

1

DTH2001 2 days ago +4

Just tell him that it’s over 18

4

suicidemachine 2 days ago

Realistically speaking, what other choice does he have? I dislike the orange clown as much as the other guy, but there's a reason why NATO was always called " North America and the others". Without Biden's support and intel, Russians would be besieging Lviv now.

0

HiddenbyMoon 2 days ago +1

Get rid of this weakling. Trump is a f****** moron and pandering to him encourages all the bullshit that is happening.

1

Semour9 2 days ago +1

They criticize him for support but then are afraid if the US backs out.... which do you want?

1

SoftwareSource 2 days ago +1

I think this is kinda unfair, his job at the moment is to calm down an orange monkey with a gun. Not really his fault, he is trying to make the best out of an absurd situation

1

RoughVirtual1626 2 days ago -3

Can the US just pull out of NATO already? This rhetoric is greatly benefiting Russia. Not least because Trump is claiming NATO is or should be an offensive organisation. EU / UK weapons will replace US ones easily and create a lot of jobs in Europe. That aside, as Ukraine has shown, the Russian army wouldn't even be a match for Poland never mind Germany, the UK and France.

-3

TheBusStop12 2 days ago +6

If you want to talk about benefitting Russia then we should mention that nothing would benefit Russia more than the US pulling out of NATO

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RoughVirtual1626 2 days ago

How so. The US is backing Russians conspiracy that NATO is an offensive organisation. If anything it would encourage European countries to build stronger armies and military industries more capable than they are currently. Like Germany doesn't have nuclear weapons because of technological limits. It's purely a political choice and could start production in months if not weeks as they are heavily involved on Frances nuclear programs. On pure size of Armed forces EU outnumbers the US. Apart from air craft carriers what can they really offer that we would need to defend against Russia as well as the fact they are connected by land. The US is unable to win a war with Iran and arguably has not won a war since WW2. Sure they are nice to have as allies but they are one of the most hostile nations against the EU currently Ie Russia is not arbitrary tarrifing us nor are the Chinese. And that doesn't end with Trump. His government has done untold damage to US alliances and I don't think the Americans will fully appreciate the effects for a few years to the next decade. Russian is simply not capable of warfare against any EU country or the UK. They would get decimated.

0

NATO chief faces scrutiny from European countries for endless support of ‘Daddy’ Trump

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