NATO must spend 5% of GDP on defence by 2030, Poland says

what would be a better benchmark?

See Canada. Part of their method to boost defence spending is to fold the coast guard into defence. I know, that might be a legitimate move because of what the coast guard does. But that is still a method of just moving numbers around instead of actually spending more.

Any government spending in any capacity can be theoretically wasted, which is why planning is so important. You're putting the cart before the horse by looking at it this way. NATO funding commitments are based on what is needed to accomplish the strategic objectives set by consensus of member nations. Each member nation has fairly defined roles and responsibilities within the NATO structure, to focus their spending on certain capabilities that will integrate with the wider NATO force. There is an ongoing technological arms race, particularly in terms of software and systems integration, that require significant investment to develop and deploy just to keep the field level, much less gain a technological advantage. This isn't the kind of problem that can be solved on the fly by cranking out conscripts and c**** drones. This solution only somewhat "works" in Ukraine because they are tolerating extremely high casualties and economic devastation with the tentative support of external partners. 5% of GDP is a small price to pay for securing NATO members and key partners against such threats.

Armies can stockpiles missiles, ammo or spare part wich wouldn't be too much given europe lacks resilience and depth in that regard.

Europe has a pretty solid launch program in Ariane that they are working to develop into a human rated system. The 6 has been a resounding success so far. NASA has also partnered with ESA and JAXA for significant components of the Artemis program.

Hey that's discrediting the ESA a lot, well they aren't at par with NASA or CNSA buft they are still in a league of their own and the difference won't be much if they put more cordinated efforts and diverse themselves from NASA (tho space must be a co-ordinative but given how allies like US behave suddenly, certain strategic autonomy is needed).

The problem is the EU is both a big player and not a player at all. It’s an organization that is controlled by the will of many independent states which have the power to stall progress at every corner so making significant changes in strategic areas becomes very slow.  In my opinion, the only viable future for Europe is federalism: let’s start by getting rid of the Veto power (probably won’t happen)

Nobody in EU worries about bottle caps. Thats such a USA talking point.

germanys government revenue in 2025 was: 2140,2 billion or very roughly around 50% of the gdp [https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2026/02/PE26\_060\_813.html](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2026/02/PE26_060_813.html)

Indeed. The US is considered to have a ridiculously high military budget. For a long time it's been 3%-3.5% of GDP, though it was closer to 8% during the height of the Cold War.

Germany's tax to gdp ratio is nearly 40%, in that sense 5% of GDP on defense is only 13% of government revenue. A lot of German tax revenue flows through the states but it would be silly to exclude what is essentially an arbitrary political division. It is obvious that in a federalized system the central government would spend a greater share of their budget on defense, this is one of their core responsibilities.

America provided 2/3rds of nato funding last year, approx 1 TRILLION compared to 500 Billion from all of EU. This kind of insane spending is what would actually be required to replace America now that they are unreliable

US spends 17% of the federal budget, which is 3.4% of GDP. Just for comparison. 

Well if you spend more than even the Nazi on military then you don't have to be afraid of the Nazi right?

Thanks for sharing

The people calling for it know exactly what it means, they want a europe to subsidize the american military industrial complex.

Nationalise them?

Europe is not trying to invade other countries. you don't need to have the strongest stick, you just need a stick big enough where it's not worth it to fight you.

Europe should definitely aim to act as a peer to the USA There’s a reason NATO only ever really acts when US interests are on the line.

5% now or 50% later, ask Ukraine they'll tell you.

For better or worse the end of the US subsidizing the defense of the western world is over. Im not trying to get political here, nor am I saying its a bad thing. But its really easy to be a "modern, progressive" nation when another nation is picking up the lions share of what should be your own defense spending.

NATO already agreed last year to increase the spending target to 5% by 2035, including 1.5% for dual-use infrastructure.  This is basically just one of NATO's most exposed members conveying a sense of urgency for their own benefit. They are already close to meeting the target and they have positioned their defense manufacturing industry for cost competitive exports including partnerships with South Korea. A rapid increase in spending by NATO militaries in Europe would be huge for the Polish economy and security interests.

5% is normal wartime economy spend. Like it or not, it is a wartime economy for NATO.

Why? With how hot everything is, honestly 5% is to small. Logistics and supplies win wars.

The biggest threat to Europe right now is the United States and Russia. Europe wants its own military to defend against both countries, since the US has proven it only allies with violent dictatorships and the US can never be trusted again.

The British navy is down to a small handful of ships, half of which are in drydock and the other half are past due for maintenance Even if 5% is too much, whatever you’re spending now is way too little

I think there could be a non-nuclear war that would make this necessary. But I also think staying at around 100 billion for the big 4 EU economies will make our armies war-ready enough where we would have enough time to ramp up to 200 billion and more if an actual war breaks out. At 200 billion each of those countries would be spending 2/3rds of the Chinese military budget and together they would have nearly 3 times the Chinese military spending. If that happens we'd be facing a new century of European domination on the Eurasian continent lol. (though my country is planning to go up to 190 billion by 2029... Europe is going to steamroll any opposition other than the US in the future)

This is entirely the east worried about Russia and expecting the rest of nato to pay up.

Wouldn't this also stimulate the economy? Assuming large part of it goes on domestic spending, that's paying for personel, domestic manufacturing etc.

Getting nukes is the best way to actually start a war. Have you not seen what's happening in Iran? You think Putin is going to sit around and let Poland get nukes without attacking first?

Russia struggles against Urkaine, a country much poorer than most of it's Nato neighbours. They also operate on old equipment. A fight against any nato country would trigfer article 5, so all European Nato members would be there quite fast. The Russians wouldn't be able to get an inch on anyone, they already couldn't if they had to split up their forces and only had to fight against two countries. Wth are you talking about?

Yeah I prefer to keep schools and hospitals open, thank you very much. Also, do you know that our most immediate threat, Morocco, could invade the Canary Islands, Ceuta and Melilla and NATO wouldn't do shit? Why should we bump our military budget into the stratosphere, taking it from much needed public finances, just so some military businessmen fill their pockets? I prefer to have an European military, one which could protect the whole EU (+Norway and the UK) over this mess with "Daddy" Trump and Rutte.

At least the spanish are based and smart enough to see that this seems senseless. I really hope people actually look at the sheets in front of them and notice the stupidity of such a move.

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If this was the case then buy MISL etf.

Can you grow up?

While I agree to not do it, countries aren't companies and can make debt. It is even advised to make a certain amount of debt to keep your economy growing.

Also buying Europeans not american And those numbers doesn't mean actual capabilities