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Announcements Jul 26, 2016 at 4:12 PM

New Ad Type: Promoted User Posts

Posted by starfishjenga


**TL;DR - [here is what this ad is](https://i.redd.it/dyib2c0odmbx.png)** Hi all, We’ve been working on some new ad products. When we’re thinking about new ad products, we want to ensure that what we’re creating is non-intrusive to you guys while remaining valuable to advertisers who are interested in participating in the community. In conversations with many advertisers, we often hear that Listnookors have already rallied around brands and products they genuinely like, and advertisers want to know how they can be part of that. But at the same time, we want to ensure that our communities remain free and user-controlled. The solution, which we’re excited to share, is a new type of advertisement that we’re calling Promoted User Posts. This will essentially let an advertiser identify an organic post that they find especially relevant to their brand or product, and promote that in the Sponsored unit you guys are already used to. How it works: * A listnookor creates a post with brand-relevant content * A brand notices the post and indicates to our sales team that they’re interested in promoting the post * Our sales team reaches out to the author of the post to get explicit permission to use the post as part of a promoted user post * If permission is given, a promoted user post is created by copying over the content and votes of the original post into a new promoted user post. (The comments will link to the same thread.) * The original post will remain where it was originally uploaded. The promoted user post comment section will link to the original comments section. See this example for details. **Note that no posts created by listnookors will be used in this fashion without explicit opt-in approval from the listnookor who created the post. Also - votes on the ad will not count towards karma or votes on the organic thread.** For a screenshot of a hypothetical example, see [here](https://i.redd.it/clxsmholmgax.png). (Note that Jenga is not a real advertiser at this time.) Both of these changes will go live on Thursday, August 4. We’ll be speaking with mod teams ahead of time before any user promoted posts go live in their sublistnooks. While we’re launching this new avenue for generating more Listnook revenue, we’ll also be shutting down a revenue generating experiment. Our experiment with [affiliate links](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/4mv578/affiliate_links_on_listnook/) has ended for the time being. We’ve decided that focusing our energies on advertising is more congruent with our long term strategy. Thanks for reading, and happy listnooking! Cheers, u/starfishjenga ___ **FAQ** **Q: I don’t want my content used as an advertisement, how do I avoid this?** No content will be turned into a promoted post without the submitter’s explicit permission. If you don’t want this to happen, either don’t answer or say no when you’re asked. **Q: What does the promoted by link point to?** If a brand pays to promote a post, in the bottom right corner where it says "promoted by", the advertiser will be linked so that you will know who is promoting the post. Clicking on their name will link to an advertiser-determined location. [Please see here for details on what points to where](https://i.redd.it/clxsmholmgax.png). **Q: What if my content was originally intended to point somewhere else? Do advertisers have the right to change that? Wouldn’t this change the context of the pre-existing comments?** Your content won’t be used in this way unless you agree to let it become a promoted user post. If you’ve commented on a post that becomes a promoted user post, promoted user posts will simply create an additional link to these comments pages. [Please see here for details on what points to where](https://i.redd.it/clxsmholmgax.png). **Q: What happens to the original votes? Is this a way for companies to juice the number of upvotes to their posts?** The vote count from the original post will be copied to the promoted post, but any upvotes applied to the promoted post will not be copied back to the original post in order to preserve the integrity of the ranking algorithm. **Q: What happens to the original post?** The original post still remains where it was originally uploaded. The promoted user post comment section will link to the original comments section. See this example for details. **Q: What does the link in the promoted post point to?** Promoting a post does not change the destination of the original link. If it was a self post, it goes to the self post comments page. If it was a link post, it goes to the link destination, same as before. [Please see here for details on what points to where](https://i.redd.it/clxsmholmgax.png) **Q: Is there a way for us to view where our content was promoted?** If your content is chosen for promotion and you accept, we’ll give you a link to the promoted user post. **Q: Do we get anything in return for agreeing to have our post promoted?** This may vary across content and across time as we figure out what makes the most sense. It will generally take the form of Gold membership for some amount of time. **Q: Won’t this encourage more users to submit content containing brands (and more fuss from /r/HailCorporate over “shilling”)?** We don’t believe the rewards on offer are enough to change people’s behavior in this case, but we’ll keep an eye on it and deal with any problems that arise. ___ EDIT: have to go to a meeting but will be back at around noon PT. EDIT 2: I'm back early because there's some confusion around what this is. Please see link at the top which I'll be updating with a more clear example. EDIT 3: I believe some listnookors may be confusing this announcement with a different one for [in-feed ad tests](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/4phzsi/sponsored_headline_tests_placement_and_design/) which we announced prior to this.

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Mcfooce Jul 26, 2016 +1348
/u/starfishjenga are advertisers going to have control over the comment section in their promoted post? If McDonald's "promotes" a post and the top 5 comments in the thread are shitting on McDonalds, will they have the ability to delete those comments? Will Listnook Admins do it?
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[deleted] Jul 27, 2016 +250
He answered a similar (less upvoted) question below: https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/4upf11/comment/d5s9g2u TL;DR: Apparently advertisers will have no control over comments and he suggests that if the ad is received negatively, the promoter will probably just delete the ad.
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starfishjenga Jul 27, 2016 +40
Advertisers will have no control over the comments section. Our community team will not give special treatment to negative comments on an ads thread either. (It will be managed the same way any normal thread is managed.) However, the brand is always welcome to retract their promotion of that particular promoted user post if they don't like the tack the comments thread is taking.
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MomentOfXen Dec 19, 2016 +1
Hey /u/starfishjenga, What happened to our ability to comment on sponsored content?
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MatRicX Jul 27, 2016 +86
.
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V2Blast Jul 27, 2016 +10
> He answered a similar (less upvoted) question below: > https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/4upf11/comment/d5s9g2u > TL;DR: Apparently advertisers will have no control over comments and he suggests that if the ad is received negatively, the promoter will probably just delete the ad.
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can-you Jul 26, 2016 +978
It wasn't clear to me (when I skimmed the post, admittedly) that this only affected the 'promoted post' that *already exists* as an ad. I had forgotten that ad even exists since I don't see it (ad blocker I'm assuming? Maybe gold?) so I didn't realize what you were talking about. I assumed that it would be a *regular post* that companies would latch onto and pump their products, which would be... awkward. If I've got it right, this is literally just modifying an advert we already see (or, in my case, I never see) to be user-generate content instead of marketing content, right?
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graeme_b Jul 26, 2016 +10
By "already exists as an ad" you mean "the promoted post will only fill the already existing ad position", right? The original post is not an ad, it's just promoted into an ad s***, if I understand correctly.
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starfishjenga Jul 26, 2016 +442
You're absolutely correct **EDIT: based on comments below I've updated the post with a TL;DR at the top so you can see what I'm talking about. I'm going to work on making this even more clear right now.**
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N0V0w3ls Jul 26, 2016 +151
I literally thought this is what that ad was already doing. Yeah, no problem here.
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Devam13 Jul 26, 2016 +67
Please edit your post at the very top. Most of us thought it was just inserting an ad in between the posts on the front page while browsing. If this is the case, I don't mind.
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Inthepaddedroom Jul 26, 2016 +8
I dunno man, They announced testing a month ago and the other day I had a blue post in the middle of my feed that looked normal except for the blue sheen. I tried to screenshot (because I missed testing announcement) But I was on my tablet instead of pc. Then I brushed it of as me just not using RES. The ad post I saw was definitely in my feed. If I wouldn't have noticed the blue tint I wouldn't have recognized it. If nothing has changed since recent testing the EDIT to the top of op's post is pretty misleading. Can anyone else verify if they have seen it in the feed? I'm not completely sure as it's the only one I've seen.
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[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +19
Check out m.listnook.com that is exactly what they are doing. It f****** sucks.
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bigfatmuscles Jul 26, 2016 +105
You should definitely clarify this at the VERY top of your announcement!
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Reddisaurusrekts Jul 27, 2016 +5
> I assumed that it would be a regular post that companies would latch onto and pump their products, which would be... awkward. This is exactly what is happening... From OP: >If permission is given, a promoted user post is created by copying over the content and votes of the original post into a new promoted user post. (The comments will link to the same thread.)
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[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +1348
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YouProbablySmell Jul 26, 2016 +59
So you're expecting companies to spot when they're getting free advertising from someone on Listnook, then come and offer to pay you for the free advertising they're already getting? What?
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skztr Jul 26, 2016 +224
Will there be an explicit ban on promoting a post which was posted by the company itself / by someone acting on behalf of the company? eg: Taco Bell's social media team uses a sock-puppet to post "Oh boy! I love Tacos!", then Taco Bell's social media team "promotes" that post. imo, that should be explicitly disallowed. Companies should only be allowed to "promote" genuine user-created content, and there should be severe penalties for abusing that. "severe penalties" *start with*, obviously, a lifetime ban on that brand ever promoting a post or otherwise advertising on listnook ever again.
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zeug666 Jul 26, 2016 +6
This doesn't seem like that big of a deal as long as it stays as an explicit opt-in. A few things I am curious about, if you have a moment: * What sort of information is shared with the user when a company seeks to promote their post? * Can a company promote a negative post about a competitor? * Are any sublistnooks off limits? * Are any advertisers off limits?
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starfishjenga Jul 26, 2016 +7
Thanks! Answers to your questions below: **What sort of information is shared with the user when a company seeks to promote their post?** The brand seeking to promote the post, the post in question, the destination of the brand-controlled link (see mockup) and what the specific reward is (generally some amount of Listnook Gold). **Can a company promote a negative post about a competitor?** No. **Are any sublistnooks off limits?** Not as a blanket statement, but not all advertisers will be allowed on all sublistnooks. For example, we won't allow NSFW advertisers on SFW sublistnooks. **Are any advertisers off limits?** Yes, normal advertising rules will apply here. This isn't exhaustive but some reasons that an advertiser could be banned include fraudulent claims, not paying their invoice, etc.
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ecafyelims Jul 26, 2016 +105
Just in time for the presidential election advertising campaigns. Seriously, even though I'm a born cynic, this is probably a good move to get Listnook into the black. (or more black?) Some questions: * Can advertisers promote a particularly excellent comment? For some reason, I tend to trust thoughtful comments more than links. * Can OP still edit his/her self-post after it's being promoted? If so, this ad could get sabotaged. * Can we please get more mod tools?
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starfishjenga Jul 26, 2016 +45
Thanks for your constructive thoughts. Answers below: * This feature does not support promoting user comments * We'll ask that OP agree not to modify their post as part of the agreement. (They can always say no or ignore us.) * Not my area but I know that /u/powerlanguage is working hard on modmail as well as other things.
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jimmy_three_shoes Jul 26, 2016 +42
What incentive does the user have (aside from Listnook visibility) for complying with the request of an advertiser?
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thirdegree Jul 27, 2016 +1
> We'll ask that OP agree not to modify their post as part of the agreement. (They can always say no or ignore us.) If a brand decides and the OP agrees to promote a post, what happens if a moderator removes the post?
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VampyrosLesbos Jul 26, 2016 +85
Unsurprising how many people comment before reading everything. I have issues with the following: 1. You do address the fact that this may affect how users post content "Won’t this encourage more users to submit content containing brands". However you do not address the fact that it may increase the amount of non-genuine users posting (I'm thinking re-posts, users that are affiliated with companies that post about the company, etc.) fake or staged content. 2. I can foresee an increase in "witch hunts" when organic posts get promoted... a comment section riddled with "Fake!" spam simply because a post has been promoted. 3. So what I'm seeing is ListnookUser <--karma/gold--> Listnook <--$--> Company. How is this different from a company simply gilding user posts? All in all I think this is a great un-intrusive idea (since it just adds a little "promoted by" thing on the side of the already promoted s*** at the top of the page) that actually (theoretically) makes users take part in advertising.
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legendofdrag Jul 26, 2016 +83
Honestly getting more relevant ads is a good change. As long as obvious shilling is heavily moderated I don't see any negatives. EDIT: Honestly guys, I get that there's an "ads suck" circlejerk, but listnook has to get the money to keep the lights on somehow. Hosting isn't free. And this is a much better alternative than most sites resort to.
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Raytiger3 Jul 26, 2016 -1
Took the words right out of my mouth. If it is truly as crystal clear as dear /u/starfishjenga describes it (great job answering questions by the way) I can definitely enjoy these kinds of posts more than actual irrelevant ads. Either a cool post that I've already seen, or I'm going to see something that a brand determined was really cool and wanted me to see it.
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starfishjenga Jul 26, 2016 +36
Thanks. We're working hard to make the ads experience better which we believe will benefit all parties.
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skineechef Jul 26, 2016 +11
Real quick and maybe unrelated, but when I hide an ad and then I refresh a page for whatever reason, the ad is back and it says clearly"unhide". Clicking "unhide" *WILL* hide the ad again, so I'm fine with that, but it looks like a bug. *a cute little ladybug, and I'll love it and squeeze it..*
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starfishjenga Jul 26, 2016 +15
That sounds like a bug. I couldn't reproduce it though.
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Overlay Jul 26, 2016 +6
Keep up the good work. Thanks for your transparency.
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[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +1
[deleted]
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FedRishFlueBish Jul 26, 2016 +8
Will promoters have any control over comments in promoted posts? Using your Jenga example, if Jenga promotes a post, and I post a comment "Jenga uses slave labor to construct their blocks" and it gets voted to the top, will Jenga have any recourse? Because then they've paid for something that directly harms them. Or, more likely, if a certain political campaign promotes a link that paints their candidate in a good light, but the top comment is about certain emails or certain evidence of large-scale corruption, will that political campaign be able to do anything about it?
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damontoo Jul 26, 2016 +18
People with a rising post aren't going to be very willing to agree to this since it will reduce karma on their original post. People will be less likely to upvote a post they already saw as a sponsored post, right?
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starfishjenga Jul 26, 2016 +11
Interesting point which I hadn't considered. I guess we'll have to find out. That being said, we expect that the vast majority of these posts won't be from content posted in the last few days.
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EternalNewGuy Jul 26, 2016 +1947
I know I'm a cynic, but I can't help but see this as step one towards taking promoted posts from just the top of the page and scatterering them liberally throughout the news feed. Hopefully that won't happen, right?
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stonefit Jul 26, 2016 +251
As listnook leadership continues to open doorways to even further reaching advertising subversion, the alternatives become even more appealing. Here is how this new structure will work (which they are aware of): 1. Coca Cola marketing team created a new thread. Pick any sub (or all of them) 2. Coca Cola identifies that post and "expresses interest" in sponsoring it It's all just so slimy and disingenuous. I would rather pay (again) for no ads. Get with the times, you greedy corporate fuckers.
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JS-a9 Jul 26, 2016 +149
I just want to say, Powerade is refreshing... cools you off on a hot summers day.. and I can't wait for mystic mountain blueberry!
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[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +22
[deleted]
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PM_PICS_OF_ME_NAKED Jul 26, 2016 +410
This will be a way to have company written posts that are just sponsored content appear more frequently. "This wasn't written by a Hersheys employee, it was written by a listnookor." who just happened to be a Hersheys employee. This is just a way to force more ads and to try to make it seem as if they aren't.
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[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +1419
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N4N4KI Jul 26, 2016 +287
> Once you have to start looking at every post and wondering "Is this real, or just astroturf" it ruins the experience. I thought that was the point we were at already, a change like that would just serve in making it more overt.
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[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +86
[deleted]
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originalSpacePirate Jul 26, 2016 +35
Absolutely this. A large part of listnook is sponsored content disguised as "user posts". This is just another step for listnook towards heavily ad based
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Human_Robot Jul 26, 2016 +112
>This is literally how Digg died. 5-year club remembers
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RyanBlack Jul 27, 2016 +47
Over 8 years here. F*** MrBabyMan
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[deleted] Jul 27, 2016 +8
Digg turned shitty eight years ago, I remember those changes as well as these ones. Both over the same issue almost funnily enough.
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flee_market Jul 26, 2016 +176
It absolutely will. Were you around for Digg? Listnook is the new Digg, and this is just part of the overall slide into mediocrity.
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Hubris2 Jul 26, 2016 +28
Where is the permanent opt-out option, to make sure you never take my name and comments and turn them into a shill for some company? I don't want to be pestered every 20 minutes by a Listnook bot suggesting "We'd like to promote your post". Where is my opt-out option that doesn't involve letting Listnook spam me and having to ignore it?
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edavison1 Jul 26, 2016 +30
"It will generally take the form of Gold membership for some amount of time." It would be cool if listnookors actually got paid for their marketing efforts, right? Because there will be paid marketers anyway. You can bet that for those willing to promote brands, there will be a lot more on offer than gold. I don't know :(
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martiansuccessor Jul 27, 2016 +3
I'm with you. This is a small example of it, but Listnook is basically facilitating free labor for the advertisers in question. Yeah, they make money off of Listnook Gold, but it doesn't cost them anything. Let me throw this scenario at you: Guitar man (hereafter referenced at GM) sings and plays guitar at his local coffee shop on an open mic night, locals night, what have you. He happens to have a song in his repertoire that references eating Funyuns. It just so happens that a Frito-Lays rep (or someone working for an ad agency or marketing firm that they employ) hears the song and likes the way it reflects on Funyuns. The next week, the coffee shop owner (CS for short) approaches the guitar player. Open Scene: CS: "Hey man. I'd like to give your music more visibility, so I'd like to offer you a gig on Tuesday. Now, you don't have to do it if you don't want to, but if you do, we're going to advertise it as Funyuns presents: Guitar Guy." GM: “Sounds pretty good. How much does it pay?” CS: "Well, there's not any money involved, but we'll give you Coffee Gold for a whole month." GM: "Oh, so I get like a d******* or something? That sounds a little weak, but this is my first real gig…." CS: "Well, not exactly, but you do get a special fancy coffee cup, you don't have to look at the shitty art on the walls in here, you get a big laminated button that lets everyone know you have Coffee Gold, you can go drink coffee in our back room with other gold members, but most importantly, you get to let everyone else in the shop know that you’re a member. " GM: "Hmm. So where does Frito-Lay come in?" CS: "Well, they're paying me to advertise in my venue, so giving you Coffee Gold is the least I can do." GM: “Now that I’m hearing all of this, I’m not so sure I’m interested.” CS: “Well, like I said, you don’t have to if you don’t want to. The ball is totally in your court.” GM: “So is this Coffee Gold membership a thing that you only make available to really cool customers that you really like? So it’s super exclusive?” CS: “Well, getting it for free is. In a month you can get the service back if you pay for it. Anyone else can also get it just by paying for it. Or you know, maybe you’ve got a Wavy Lays song tucked inside that genius brain of yours just waiting to form into more Coffee Gold.” **TLDR**: Listnook wants to monetize your creativity and, as payment, they want to give you a limited time membership to their VIP service that is basically pure profit for them and doesn’t have much, if any, real world value. Edit: To quote Listnook on this line of thinking: >We'll only be promoting posts from listnookors who are happy with this arrangement. (Those who don't like it are welcome to ignore us or say no and we won't use their posts.) I guess that makes it OK to take advantage of the poor suckers who don't realize they're getting commoditized with barely anything to show for it?
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starfishjenga Jul 26, 2016 +29
We'll only be promoting posts from listnookors who are happy with this arrangement. (Those who don't like it are welcome to ignore us or say no and we won't use their posts.)
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edavison1 Jul 26, 2016 +29
Well I appreciate you calmly responding to everyone's (probably vastly overblown) concerns. But I'm not sure many hearts and minds are going to be won over here. My view on it would be that listnookors happy with this kind of arrangement are either a) getting paid on the sly (which is fine, let's be real) or b) don't fully grasp that the content they are providing is unpaid work. Like others in the thread, I am genuinely happy to see listnook trying to work more money out of the site, just not sure this is the best approach.
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Zirind Jul 26, 2016 +10
Just as a counterpoint, I'm completely okay with this and I'm not getting paid in anyway. Anything I post here is just because I want to share it for whatever reason. I'm not expecting to get anything out of it in the first place, so if Listnook can get something out of it then I'm all for it.
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starfishjenga Jul 26, 2016 +14
Thanks for your thoughtful feedback. Basically we're betting that there are enough users like /u/Zirind (see below) out there for this to work. In our early tests, ~70% of users we've asked have agreed to let us use their content for this purpose so we're pretty confident this will be the case.
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Uberguuy Jul 26, 2016 +22
~~I don't see how any good can come of this.~~ EDIT: Just saw the new top comment, that's it? I've clearly misunderstood the situation.
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starfishjenga Jul 26, 2016 +34
Hopefully you'll consider the following good: * This will help Listnook move toward being a sustainable business * This should have minimal negative impact on users since it's the same ad s***, but hopefully the content will be more relevant for listnookors
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AssuredlyAThrowAway Jul 26, 2016 +94
Isn't this getting quite close to veiling ads as content, and is that not what lead to digg v4? Are you insane, or simply not content with a 500 million dollar valuation?
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wufnu Jul 26, 2016 +11
It's like Yahoo News sponsored articles. Copying techniques used by an aging tech company about to be bought by another... potentially not the best idea. Also, either my ad-blocker has gotten a lot better or even Yahoo stopped using that ad technique. Once my gold runs out, I look forward to installing an app that removes ads disguised as content. I'd prefer it if shilling were kept to /r/HailCorporate/.
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minerat27 Jul 26, 2016 +13
>Please see here for details on what points to where. Uhhh, where's 'here'? I think you're missing a link.
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[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +32
This seems like *a lot* of administrative overhead and insight for a not so great idea. How do you plan on preventing the process for these type of posts from becoming huge 'technical debt'(administrative debt?)
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honestbleeps Jul 26, 2016 +381
I think this is an interesting, if sort of strange approach. Basically it's sort of a high five for grassroots advertisement... or an encouragement for astroturfing. What's to stop companies from "rewarding" users without listnook's involvement? I would think that if there's any sort of visual prominence for these posts, they'll become very high value. I like that listnook is trying to come up with better ways to monetize than more and more intrusive ads, don't get me wrong, I'm just interested to see where it goes...
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ArchCypher Jul 26, 2016 +22
The good news is that users can still choose which posts to upvote, and if people start shilling for corps because of the potential value we can (hopefully) respond by downvoting said shills to oblivion. Of course, I'm not sure listnook has the best history of downvoting bad content, but a guy can dream. There's also the argument that any strategy that leads to needing to downvote a ton of posts is a poor strategy, but I don't think this is absolutely guaranteed to head in that direction. I guess we'll see, eh?
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PicturElements Jul 26, 2016 +87
This is the author of RES. I wonder if any new features will be made available in the next release...
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[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +33
[removed]
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jippiejee Jul 26, 2016 +42
So posts we spammed can now be made visible again by the company it promoted, and look like organic content? Meh...
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IAMAcleverguy Jul 26, 2016 +30
So what's to stop companies from making marketing accounts, posting, and then promoting their own posts? For example I'm a marketer for clorox bleach. I'm going to post to TIFU about some wild and crazy story about how I revenge poured a bunch of bleach in my roommates laundry or something (that is probably not true). And then I promote it with this new advertising feature. Is there any way you plan on trying to prevent this sort of thing from happening? Seems like a really easy way to create content advertisers want and then promoting their own content. Any thoughts on likelihood of that happening or ways to prevent an influx of marketing accounts used to promote brands and products?
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adeadhead Jul 26, 2016 +6
Will we be able to see who promoted the post?
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starfishjenga Jul 26, 2016 +24
Yes, please see the [mockup](https://i.redd.it/clxsmholmgax.png)
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octobereighth Jul 26, 2016 +14
Would there be any interest in having it look more [like this](http://i.imgur.com/vr24ThA.png) (pardon my poor MS Paint skills, everything would still link in the same way you described, it would just put the promotion tag closer)? I think it would be easier to tell at a glance if a post is promoted or not.
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nerdcore72 Jul 26, 2016 +43
We'll at least now you're being honest about the ad-posts.
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[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +21
I don't like this, but I honestly don't know if i'll ever be totally on-board with a monetization strategy. They all seem very sketchy, like it's adulterating the site somehow.
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[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +25
"Non-intrusive" and "ad" are mutually exclusive terms. Bullshitting us about it doesn't make it more palatable.
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circus-cb Jul 26, 2016 +116
will they at least be a different background colour so I know what to avoid?
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Dr___Gonzo Jul 26, 2016 +183
I don't think I've ever clicked on a promoted post. It's never been interesting enough I guess.
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ArchCypher Jul 26, 2016 +38
I think the Outcast link was really effective -- "Hey you guys like good tv, so watch the pilot of our new show for free. If you like it, episode two premiers on XX" It felt pretty in place here at listnook with the whole "sharing a cool thing" angle, and I think it generated a lot of interest as a result.
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McHaloKitty Jul 26, 2016 +35
/r/ gadgets is going to be an advertisement shit show now with this new system.
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supersayanftw Jul 26, 2016 +23
I mean, despite the downvotes /u/starfishjenga and the admins are still practicing transparency here, so there's that atleast
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fersnizaly Jul 26, 2016 +75
I see how bringing back karma for text posts makes sense now... I understand the complexity and challenges of running a company like this. It can be difficult to balance corporate interests with user/consumer interest. However, this is not an appealing setup for me as a Listnook user. So will there be anyway to filter out these promoted posts?
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[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +19
This actually seems like a decent monetization strategy, and should be relatively unobtrusive to users. I am amused though, one of the tenets of /r/HailCorporate is that people often subconsciously exude marketing for companies. Now listnook has found a way to monetize that.
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PurdyCrafty Jul 26, 2016 +50
How will Advertisers go about finding this organic content? As it currently stands, it doesn't seem like the Search bar is made to do that. More so, what period of time can an advertiser promote a link? Will I see a post from a year ago today because a brand advertiser liked it? In a perfect world this seems pretty neutral. Maybe add a trophy if an advertiser picks up your post?
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r00t1 Jul 26, 2016 +8
Can we still block these with Adblock?
8
AKA-Bluebeard Jul 26, 2016 +26
>We don’t believe the rewards on offer are enough to change people’s behavior in this case, but we’ll keep an eye on it and deal with any problems that arise. Hilarious. It's a good job that there aren't people on this site who post c*** for meaningless internet points. They certainly won't have any motivation to abuse this system. For the hard of thinking: /s
26
bheklilr Jul 26, 2016 +265
> **Q: Do we get anything in return for agreeing to have our post promoted?** > >This may vary across content and across time as we figure out what makes the most sense. It will generally take the form of Gold membership for some amount of time. So basically nothing. Listnook gets any and all revenue from these ads while the users who actually create the content that is generating revenue get a "thanks for playing".
265
SoInsightful Jul 26, 2016 +173
The low reward is a great thing. Being generously rewarded for creating advertising content would be the downfall of listnook.
173
drbeeper Jul 26, 2016 +29
Can the promoted post then be edited? This could get fun...
29
BeardyAndGingerish Jul 26, 2016 +72
What's to stop a company from having a bunch of interns create new usernames and post advertising content on Listnook all day?
72
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +58
Literally nothing. That's *already* happening.
58
migvazquez Jul 26, 2016 +30
And now they get super upvotes! This totally isn't what killed digg!
30
ladykillerwannabe Jul 26, 2016 +18
This is a terrible idea!
18
Hacis Jul 26, 2016 +71
>*Q: Do we get anything in return for agreeing to have our post promoted?** This may vary across content and across time as we figure out what makes the most sense. It will generally take the form of Gold membership for some amount of time. So ads we can't escape only for the promise of gold? Expect to see more fake accounts shilling crappy products.
71
everypostepic Jul 26, 2016 +2
As content creators, what benefit do we get other than useless internet points? I mean sure, it gives Listnook money to keep the servers running, but shouldn't I, as the content creator get Listnook gold (or something) so I get some of those nice features that come along with it? Seems like between content creator, Listnook, and advertiser, the content creator is getting the short end of the stick.
2
starfishjenga Jul 26, 2016 +6
Yes, we're offering gold when we request to promote a user post. Posters who feel this is unfair are always free to decline the offer. We won't promote anything without explicit opt-in.
6
oliilo1 Jul 26, 2016 +4
Sounds like a decen solution. There's a lot of critisism in this thread, but I think most are just scared of listnook going the way of digg. When I first read this, I thought it was a way for an artist to add a link to his iTunes site, if someone posted a link to a new song of his/her on youtube. Which would also be a fair thing to do, imo.
4
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +132
Can't companies just create accounts that look legitimate and then if they gain a little bit of traction, attach a paid for rocket to the post? I get that anything I post won't be used as advertising without my consent, but won't this make advertising posts much more prevalent?
132
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +17
This is a really stupid idea. Anyone who makes a post saying that a product is good is now untrustworthy because there's a chance he's doing it for free gold or it's the company doing it for advertising reasons.
17
alienmidfield Jul 26, 2016 +4
Will you allow sublistnooks to opt out of this feature? For instance could a sub like /r/hailcorporate opt out and say that no posts on their sub can be promoted, to stop people from making posts just to try to be promoted?
4
MatRicX Jul 26, 2016 +7
.
7
Exaskryz Jul 26, 2016 +7
Quick question: Why is a 0-score post ranking higher on my front page than something with score and that is new?
7
Demento56 Jul 27, 2016 +7
As I understand it, your front page shows posts that are "outstanding" relative to their sublistnook (so /r/pics doesn't completely drown out your smaller sublistnooks), and since this is the first post on /r/announcements in a month or two, it automatically qualifies as "outstanding".
7
Chewbacca_007 Jul 27, 2016 +6
Whatever the mechanics are, I'm very grateful that an important post such as one in /r/announcements is visible to me despite the scoring. I'm unclear what the criteria is to sticky an announcement and not others, but hey, at least this announcement is visible (the other ad test link starfishjenga is sharing somehow slipped right past me, despite me still being a daily listnookor).
6
PanicOnFunkotron Jul 26, 2016 +3
>Q: What does the link in the promoted post point to? Promoting a post does not change the destination of the original link. If it was a self post, it goes to the self post comments page. If it was a link post, it goes to the link destination, same as before. **Please see here for details on what points to where.** Seems like you meant for that to link somewhere, but it doesn't. Just sayin.
3
mineral Jul 26, 2016 +7
Is this for real? Op, you might want to x-post this to /r/nottheonion !! Btw, LPT of the day: If you write a PR statement don't mention that you are "exited" about something. People will think you are lame!
7
[deleted] Jul 27, 2016 +2
I suppose this is better than a tracker based Ad Vehicle. No grumbles there. However, I'm a little concerned about abuse of this system. The_Donald already abuse the sticky system and they're still topping the front page because of that abuse (Not saying they shouldn't exist, so keep your triggers happy, people). By somehow combining a brand name with a soap box or opinion piece would be too easy. Self promotion would become a thing alongside the Advertisers promotion. Favouritism is already a problem on Listnook. I like how yous are trying to avoid the tracker Ads, but there has to be a way to tame this beast.
2
SgtBrowncoat Jul 26, 2016 +331
How it will *actually* work: * Brand buys or starts an account. * Brand's PR team makes a post about their product using said account. * Brand "identifies" post as "relevant" and pays to promote it. I know Listnook needs cash flow, but this is ripe for astroturfing abuses.
331
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +6
Is there a way for moderators to opt out of this for their sub-Listnook?
6
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 -18
##Will the stupid people in this thread please shut the f*** up? Do you guys know that listnook makes ***no*** money? It is literally true that if listnook does not change, they are going to go out of business. All the free shit you guys enjoy will be gone, or more likely, wrecked by some company that buys Listnook and crushes it with ads. So shut the f*** up, stop complaining, upvote this thread. Listnook needs a way to make money or they'll go out of business. If you guys want to b**** and moan, start your own Listnook and pay for it yourself.
-18
starfishjenga Jul 26, 2016 +15
Thanks for your support. We're not quite *that* bad off, and we're quickly improving, so for now we're in no danger of going out of business. The team I work with directly is spending a lot of time on ads products to prevent this type of outcome in the future (by building a sustainable business). Thanks for understanding!
15
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +10
[deleted] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.056971643795295845 > This comment has been overwritten by [this open source script](https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/10380-listnook-overwrite) to protect this user's privacy. The purpose of this script is to help protect users from doxing, stalking, and harassment. It also helps prevent mods from profiling and censoring. > If you would like to protect yourself, add the Chrome extension [TamperMonkey](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tampermonkey/dhdgffkkebhmkfjojejmpbldmpobfkfo), or the Firefox extension [GreaseMonkey](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/greasemonkey/) and click Install This Script on [the script](https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/10380-listnook-overwrite) page. Then to delete your comments, simply click on your username on Listnook, go to the comments tab, scroll down as far as possible (hint: use [RES](http://www.listnookenhancementsuite.com/)), and hit the new OVERWRITE button at the top.
10
canipaybycheck Jul 26, 2016 +6
>We don’t believe the rewards on offer are enough to change people’s behavior in this case, but we’ll keep an eye on it and deal with any problems that arise. In other words you don't give a f*** about stopping bad shit before it happens, you'll deal with it after the mods have to deal with it first.
6
Creeplet7 Jul 26, 2016 +95
Well, you're going to get a f*** ton of unsubtle brand endorsements from users trying to make money from these. This comment sponsored by Pepsi, Nike, Alienware and the Hillary Clinton campaign
95
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +55
HAHAHA THAT'S A GREAT COMMENT, I ENJOYED IT. REMINDS ME OF THE TIME I ENJOYED A NICE COLD GLASS OF **COCA-COLA^®**.
55
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +7
Can I get paid if someone wants to promote my post? BUY DORITOS NOW
7
srnull Jul 26, 2016 +6
> Our experiment with affiliate links has ended for the time being. We’ve decided that focusing our energies on advertising is more congruent with our long term strategy. What's going on with affiliate links exactly? I really thought this went live already, but your communication about these "features" is never all that clear.
6
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +6
[deleted]
6
JustLTU Jul 26, 2016 +3
I saw you saying somewhere here that users who get their posts promoted in this manner will be getting listnook gold. Do you think this might encourage people to post more stuff positive for brands in hopes of getting "rewarded" by having the companies promote their posts? How will you be combating this?
3
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +16
[deleted]
16
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +9
This really seems like a terrible idea that is begging for abuse.
9
[deleted] Jul 27, 2016 +1
I can see this being super abused by someone at some point. /u/starfishjenga For example: UserA makes controversial post in SublistnookA shilling ProductA. Said Post breaks the rules of SublistnookA by moderator's discretion. Before ModeratorA has had a chance to review the post, the company successfully pushes through; promoting this post. *Let us presume that Sublistnook A is sufficiently large enough that ModeratorA and their fellow mods of SublistnookA cannot possibly lay eyes on every single post.* So now; said controversial post that ModeratorA may not want on SublistnookA has been granted de-facto immunity by the admins. Removing said post may place the Moderator under scrutiny by the Ad team of Listnook Admins, who may now get to come in and decide; for the moderator; that the post _doesn't_ break the rules of their sublistnook. Perhaps said moderator and said sublistnook doesn't _want_ this form of advertisement taking place in their community; or they don't _want_ their community to be promoting products. Where in this equation do the moderator's rights get queried? Are they protected? Could you please clarify what takes place when a post is promoted; and what, if any, immunities are granted to that object when it is promoted by CompanyA. Does the Ad-link simply break because the mod removed the original post? Can the mod do that? Will doing so bring scrutiny upon said sublistnook's moderation team?
1
Eustace_Savage Jul 26, 2016 +9
Listnook is on the precipice of a mass exodus and you're gleefully happy to push us off that cliff. You've lost your minds.
9
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 -6
I'll just make sure to downvote every one of these f****** things then. There is no such thing as a good ad, end of story.
-6
jmxd Jul 26, 2016 +2
Dunno why it's downvoted so much. Everyone dislikes ads but i would say this is one of the least annoying implementation of an advertisement ever AND they are asking permission from the user who originally created the post. Plus, this was already there before, they just 'improved' it slightly. At least they're being honest about what is happening this time. I wish they would involve the community more, like when they made self-posts grant karma which no one likes. Maybe should've asked permission or at least discuss it with moderators before implementing that.
2
JarlOfRum Jul 27, 2016 +1
There's been a lot of posts about how nothing will be organic about this at all. There's no way that anything worth reading will be as organic as the freshest produce that can only be found at your local Stop & Shop. So really this is just a pointless exercise.
1
Strugglingtoshit Jul 26, 2016 +25
I'm sorry, but this is a horrible, garbage idea. This will be abused to the point where we're not sure if we're clicking on real listnook posts or just crappy advertisements. A vast majority of these user posts will be insiders within a marketing team. With one hand they create the post, with the other hand they shovel cash to get it on the front page. Doing this WILL create a backlash. Facebook did this and now it has become a total cesspool, where a majority of the feed articles are thinly veiled advertisements and shitty clickbait articles, pushed to the top with ad money. Facebook is already going the way of Myspace because of this business model. It's a terrible user experience all around and they're shooting themselves in the foot. If you want people to sincerely enjoy and continue using listnook, you have to leave the main feed untouched by marketing. It has to remain 100% user-submitted and user upvoted. The fact that there are already marketing teams trying to push content on us under the guise of anonymity is bad enough. Don't make it easy for them. Again, I'm warning you that there WILL be a backlash if this happens. Normal users don't want to sift through ads just to see normal content. They will leave in droves.
25
ElementOfExpectation Jul 26, 2016 -2
People are just shitting on this post with downvotes for no apparent good reason. Why do people have such a beef with ads that aren't even obtrusive? They have literally changed a small thing about ads that are already there.
-2
DHumphrey Jul 26, 2016 +4
Can the companies pay me to make an "organic" post?
4
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +15
[deleted]
15
JewJewJubes Jul 26, 2016 +20
@ /u/StarFishJenga how will you prevent shill companies from creating a Listnook account specifically for promoting their products? I've noticed many times ads being posted on Listnook and being upvoted to the top of /r/all [For Example](https://www.listnook.com/r/funny/comments/4enmls/i_think_i_just_got_the_most_canadian_email_ever/) [Or the top of r/Hailcorporate](https://www.listnook.com/r/HailCorporate/top/) Not saying the user of that post is a shill but a Tim Hortons ad with almost 5K upvotes is that really what Listnook is about?
20
Kvothealar Jul 27, 2016 +1
Any chance we can get credits instead of membership? I'm getting gold faster than I can use it and I want to give some of it away to other users. I don't need my membership extended. I want to be able to super-upvote people for stellar content or comments. It would make them Glad^TM .
1
newphonesameperson Jul 26, 2016 -4
SELL OUTS IS THIS NOT A FORM OF CENSORSHIP? ECONOMIC CENSORSHIP?
-4
johnnysunshine71 Jul 26, 2016 +3
"The solution, which we’re excited to share..." I'm scared.
3
pitchingataint Jul 27, 2016 +2
**GODDAMNIT!** Well this site is going to shit. Just when I think that mods, admins and what-not couldn't run it further into the ground, you just find a new depth. Ads will ruin everything. Especially ones that work around getting blocked! Way to go! 👏👏👏^👏^👏^👏^👏^👏^👏
2
mushpuppy Jul 27, 2016 +2
I'd like an overall opt-out please. As in no thank you *ever* and don't ask.
2
461weavile Jul 26, 2016 -3
It's barely an ad. You'll see a post on front page (?) that is a normal post but doesn't get the same karma counting as other posts. It might be from /jokes where OP mentioned Kleenex and Kleenex says "I like this, I'll give this joke a super-upvote so way more people can see the post." It's still a post from /jokes, the karma is just unusual. My one question is about moderation: people are showing concern about companies posting from an alt and super-voting it. Will there be moderators making sure that a promoted post is actually HQ?
-3
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +2
Oh great, now /r/pics /r/funny etc are all going to be flooded by product placement posts from people trying to get their content sponsored.
2
WorseThanHipster Jul 26, 2016 +7
I wasn't sure how to feel about this, but after [a few swigs](http://i.imgur.com/IsiF62A.gif) of delicious [Old Crow Bourbon Whiskey](http://i.imgur.com/QQjlkM0.png)^^TM I think this is a good idea.
7
wauter Jul 28, 2016 +1
It's amazing how many people don't seem to realize that *there is already an ad currently there*. So any scheme with 'fake' user post creation only to then pay to have it promoted would just be a waste of time, you can directly pay to fill that s*** with the content you want. Very interesting idea, and curious to see how this will pan out! Looks like you are trying to translate the common social media marketing 'test what works organically and boost those even further' tactic to listnook. Makes sense! I think, speaking from a marketing point of view, having to hunt/wait on user-generated content will feel to 'un controlled' as a brand though. Like, they may try it once or so, but I think I'd fall back to regular ads quickly. QUESTION: as a brand, why would I choose this format over just duplicating a post that works organically as a 'regular' ad? The 'credibility' that a large number of comments brings perhaps?
1
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016
[deleted]
0
drbeeper Jul 26, 2016 +1158
"identify an organic post" LOL. Every "organic" post will be an alt from the digital marketing dept
1158
Bombingofdresden Jul 26, 2016 +170
Listnook rides the backs of OC and community discussion. Which is fine. Listnook is the frame of a building. Users furnish that building. But now marketing departments of major companies get to scour /r/new and ride the backs of OC and community discussion and pay Listnook for it? That's bizarre to me. And Listnook Gold as compensation? wat? I have 4 years of the stuff and I've never used it. This place gets more and more tone deaf by the minute. The straw for me was the "Dat Boi" booth that Listnook had set up at some con recently. How much more outed of touch does it get. Edit: Listnook is in a brand crisis and have been for a while. They don't know what they want to be. The only thing they do know is that they want to be polished for investors and advertisers.
170
Sarcasticorjustrude Jul 26, 2016 +131
They're not out of touch, they're under massive pressure to actually make money. If you have an idea on how to make money without rustling jimmies, I'm sure they'd love to hear it.
131
Bombingofdresden Jul 26, 2016 +115
I think Listnook is crucially over valued simply because of the volume of visitors it produces. It's an illusion. Investors see those numbers and think of them like any other online community. They think the users will want originally produced Listnook "this" and Listnook "that." But I don't think that's the case at all. I don't think anyone is clamoring for Listnook to expand as a "media empire." I think it is destined to be what it originally was and that is simply a platform. I understand they're under a lot of pressure but that's because they're trying to squeeze water out of a rock.
115
Sarcasticorjustrude Jul 26, 2016 +46
Most of what you said is true, but the business still has to make money....it's the entire point and a requirement for having a business. If the business costs more to run than it brings in, you have two choices, let the business die, or change something so it makes money. Yes, we may like Listnook the way it is, but that doesn't matter. If it doesn't turn a profit, it will simply go away.
46
Bombingofdresden Jul 26, 2016 +24
Oh I understand they need to advertise. I fully support that. I just think this is a strange way of doing that. Especially if you aren't genuinely compensating people for essentially doing the job of a major company's marketing department. Essentially, I think Listnook has to be operated as a barebones site. Not the traditional Silicon Valley style hierarchy and departmental structure. Keep the Gold, keep the advertising like it has been done. I completely agree with Listnook wanting to separate itself from illegal behavior regarding certain photos and activity but sanitizing the site like they are attempting to do is bad for the brand. It ends up getting lost in the wash of other available online platforms. https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/21/listnook-is-still-in-turmoil/
24
WolfInStep Jul 26, 2016 +34
Easy, all Listnook workers become hitmen, taking up several contracts a day, then give Listnook 98% of the money. Jimmies unrustled
34
idkartist3D Jul 26, 2016 +673
Yhea! I too hate that, fellow listnookor! Whenever I see a fake "organic" post, I remind myself: don't get mad, get Glad™!
673
bowlthrasher Jul 26, 2016 +31
You really missed an opportunity to name drop something organic, that's why I buy whole foods 365 organic orange juice!
31
Rooonaldooo99 Jul 26, 2016 +209
Head On™! Apply directly to the forehead!
209
Tim-Sanchez Jul 26, 2016 +83
Yeah I was wondering what stops this. A marketing user posts a link, it gets 10-20 upvotes, then somebody from the company pays to promote it.
83
frontbuttt Jul 27, 2016 +14
But how is this advantageous to simply buying the sponsored unit placement and creating the post specifically for ad purposes? Would the illusion of an organic post help the ad creative perform better? And to Jenga's point, most brands can find real user generated posts that they would be able to sponsor just as easily, plus that content has already been vetted by the community so they can feel more confident in its appeal to Listnookors that are interested in their brand. The real issue is the reward of Listnook Gold. F*** that. Pay these people in the same currency you're being paid in, Listnook! MONEY!
14
drbeeper Jul 26, 2016 +79
And the other drones in surrounding cubicles give it those first 10-20 upvotes.
79
OateyMcGoatey Jul 26, 2016 +28
Hi, I see you're discussing *organic*. I happen to be the head of PR for Avalon Organics. This comment brought to you by Avalon Organics - Consciousness in Cosmetics
28
sandiskplayer34 Jul 26, 2016 +22
I see that uncle Guggie works for Listnook now.
22
Emeraldon Jul 26, 2016 +47
We'll be seeing even more of GallowBoob!
47
SemenDemon182 Jul 26, 2016 +2
Any way to disable this? am getting tired of the promoted stuff in general. Sorry if im being dense, or taking the easy route.. actually was headed to bed but then i got curious about this question, now that we're at it.
2
Khourieat Jul 26, 2016 +5
And what does the original poster get while you're all profiting?
5
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +2
[deleted]
2
Fuzzlechan Jul 26, 2016 -2
This is the type of advertisement that I don't mind seeing online. Non-intrusive, (hopefully) not some overhyped bullshit like commercials, and (hopefully) advertising things that people actually care about and like. The ads won't necessarily be things that *I* care about, but I'm hoping they won't be pointless shit like most ads seem to be. Have a [cookie](https://unlockthedoortolearning.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/cookie-with-sunglasses.gif) for good use of advertising space, Starfish (and the rest of Listnook staff).
-2
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +7
[deleted]
7
Hubris2 Jul 26, 2016 +10
100% of the promoted user posts are going to be from 2 day users created by the advertisers themselves, so the suggestion this has *anything* to do with a user post is ridiculous. This is just an exercise in trying to disguise an advertisement in a form that makes it difficult to recognize. It's trying to trick people.
10
texanbadger Jul 26, 2016 +1
I agree. Would a solution be a requirement that the account be x days old before the account can be used for monetization? I have no idea just spitballing. Edit: u/starfishjenga, what are your thoughts on this concern?
1
[deleted] Jul 28, 2016 +3
You removed the trump AMA from /r/all and the frontpage and openly manipulated post scores and now you are releasing advertisements hidden as normal posts. I can't really say I'm surprised, we all knew you were corrupt and were being paid by advertisers to manipulate the rankings.
3
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +26
deleted ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.6255 [^^^What ^^^is ^^^this?](https://pastebin.com/FcrFs94k/76811)
26
[deleted] Jul 27, 2016 +2
[deleted]
2
petenu Jul 26, 2016 +6
So, a sort of "Paid Super-Upvote"
6
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +11
It seems like everyone around here is quick to get angry about Listnook making money. This doesn't seem like a bad idea to me as long as the posts are actually from real users.
11
heat_forever Jul 26, 2016 +14
It's bad in that it will encourage a huge chunk of people to fish for these endorsements by incorporating blatant advertising into their everyday posts. So while you can ignore the 1 in a million that get endorsed, you won't be able avoid the deluge of posts that aren't going to get endorsed, but tried anyway. www.digg.com: What the internet is talking about right now!
14
emergent_properties Jul 26, 2016 +22
Wait. Essentially, isn't this just a "Create Ad from Popular Post" for advertisers? With the original poster getting.. nothing in return? MAYBE "gold membership from for some amount of time"? So this lets advertisers pay Listnook directly to promote someone else's post, with the end result being: 1. Listnook gets money from the advertiser 2. The advertiser gets traffic she/he paid for (depending on how good they are at picking 'popular' posts) 3. The original poster gets a 'someone monetized your comment' indicator with a link back I'm just trying to understand the value prospect from the poster's point of view...
22
samplebitch Jul 26, 2016 +15
Somewhere up above they mentioned you'll get gold if your post is selected. Which seems even worse to me - they're creating an incentive for people to make posts in hopes their post will be chosen by an advertiser. Get ready for an influx of brand-centric shitposts.
15
Zelda__64 Jul 27, 2016 +1
Having [promoted user content interspersed in the feed](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/4upf11/new_ad_type_promoted_user_posts/d5scq4p?st=ir5c3hed&sh=5cd9324f) is a serious [conflict of interest](http://pie.0pi.com/images/drnickcash.gif). Why? The premise of listnook is that USERS CONTROL WHAT CONTENT IS SEEN by deciding what rises to the top. Bad posts are relegated to the bottom and are hidden if they are down voted enough. Listnook is a democracy of information. In traditional media, access to the readers/viewers/listeners is sold to advertisers (in other words access to people is the product). I understand that listnook has to pay its bills but I find this approach of interspersing promoted content with genuinely placed content unacceptable. Listnook wants to intersperse the ads into the feed (as if they were voted there by users) to trick you into to reading the ad (more eyeballs means more money). The placement of content is very important, that is why listnook is considering selling the space. Realistically, the promoted content MUST be sufficiently similar to an advertisement in order for the company to find it useful as a marketing message, otherwise the company wouldn’t care. The difference between an ad and the user content that a company chooses to promote is in name only. Please don't construe this as advice to promote your own business in your listnook posts, doing so would sully the purity of listnook, you have to pay listnook first if you want to do that. TL;DR listnook is considering selling to companies the privilege to promote user posts (that are sufficiently similar to ads) and intersperse them into the feed (as if they were voted there by users) to trick you into to reading the ad (to increase the value of listnook’s ad space). This is bullshit.
1
metrize Jul 27, 2016 +1
If you're going to go fully ad supported why do you still feel we need to pay you for gold? It makes no sense. "hey good post dude, I'll pay listnook for some reason to give you gold when it's actually your comment so you should actually get the money but oh well"
1
WiglyWorm Jul 26, 2016 +5
If you're going to take content I've generated and turn it in to an ad, you can pay me or GTFO.
5
MaNiFeX Jul 26, 2016 +3
> Our sales team reaches out to the author of the post to get explicit permission to use the post as part of a promoted user post Good call.
3
TheBananaKing Jul 26, 2016 +7
I can see a hell of a lot of blowback on this. There are going to be a *whole lot* of shill accounts, because what you're doing here is very hard to distinguish from monetizing vote manipulation. And as a result, everyone is going to lose confidence in their own community; whether or not every post gets called out, everyone's going to be thinking it. Every time, on every post. You're selling user goodwill here; this could cause permanent damage. It's your site, do what you like (and I certainly don't begrudge you the revenue), but please be aware that you're playing with fire here.
7
Classtoise Jul 26, 2016 +1
People worried about corporate shills are missing the real horror; what if they decide to use our posts and give us gold? They just got essentially free advertising. That's worse than now because rather than pay a shill, they promote some poor bastards post and throw him a cookie. This is not a way to seamlessly integrate synergistic blah blah market speak into our posts. It's a way to f****** farm us for free ads.
1
Korlis Jul 27, 2016 +1
Late to the party, but I am wondering if this will allow for a company to buy a post that reveals their horrendous customer service, or illegal behaviour, then simply delete it before it gets exposure. Throw a hunterbot into r/new looking for any references to their "list of potentially scandalous skeletons in our closet". Find one, buy the post out and immediately remove it. ..
1
HailCapitalism Jul 26, 2016 +11
I think this is great decision Listnook! It will for sure improve the economic development of this wonderful site.
11
TheCaveManOnCrack Jul 28, 2016 +1
/u/starfishjenga, how are you gonna balance this out exactly? I don't wanna see an user promoted ad for lets say Coca-Cola in /r/internetisbeautiful. I think you guys should only have these user promoted ads on the top of the front page. Any word on whether these and in-feed ads are gonna be in mobile apps for listnook? Because having purchased Listnook is Fun golden platinum for no ads, I wouldn't be all that fond of seeing ads in an app i paid for to not have adds in. Can there also be an "opt-out" feature for us users who don't want to have any part in this type of advertising?
1
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +7
I guess I just don't get it. Listnook has to earn money. Why are you creating a method that you CLEARLY know will make the userbase angry. I will admit I know little about marketing, but if you sell a product by angering a userbase, I don't see how that gets things done. Surely a few bridges have to get burnt, but I don't really see this as being effective enough to warrant this kind of blaze. This all concerns me, since it either makes me think: 1. Listnook is desperate (so why are they starting an image service, growing staff, etc) 2. Listnook doesn't actually know *what* to do 3. Incompetency 4. I'm just not seeing this properly myself. --- Has listnook outgrown traditional ads this much? Hell, I remember when the gold options got switched to completely blocking ads, rather than choosing which ads to block. I posted in IFTA that it should be opened back up since I and many others clicked on and didn't mind certain ads. And that was shot down. Listnook was offered more clicks by a dedicated userbase and shot it down. Granted, this was a while ago. I just don't understand. I don't really want to be the guy that says "There has to be a better way" without offering an alternative solution, but..There has to be a better way #TL;DR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkKwyjsJGxk&feature=youtu.be&t=39
7
rushmc1 Jul 26, 2016 +1
Is this a joke?
1
spam99 Jul 27, 2016 +1
Will downvote indefinitely all advertisement related or inspired posts. Stop trying to ruin listnook for the 7+ year members.
1
BuddNugget Jul 27, 2016 +3
Can't wait for listnookors to be compensated like youtubers so I can sell out big time. Imagine if a promoted post with 5000 upvotes or 30,000 clicks would net in revenue? Probably a couple hundred bucks to the user. If I just research who the promoting companies are, I can modify my content to target them, and my likelihood of monetizing listnook posts will increase. I'm probably the only one to think of this though, and the rest of listnook's users will remain true to the hive' values. /s I know what you're thinking: But they are only going to give away gold, not actual money!!! That's how it all starts. There's a lot of autistic-neckbeards on here who will stop at nothing to stockpile years of gold. When listnook sees how successful promoted posts are, they will likely take the initiative to kickback that ad money to the users who post content that gets promoted because it feeds the machine that fills Conde Nast' shareholder's bank accounts. This will be the death of listnook. (Also: there's probably nothing stopping companies bypassing listnook to pay users directly for making "good" posts) It's like that episode of South Park, where the people have became the ads, or the ads became people... Already listnookors are going to be compensated (gold) for having their posts promoted, it's just a matter of time until they offer real money, and everyone just tries to make a buck.
3
JohnCub Jul 26, 2016 -4
I think this is a great idea. I'm obviously in the minority on this one based on the upvote count for this post but I'm ok with that. I can't imagine how Listnook, Inc. or whatever, stays afloat and I'm all about seeing more ways for you guys to pay for the small things like salaries, servers, bandwidth, etc. Great job to the ad team and keep those ideas coming. People will complain but maybe if they do give them some "if you buy gold you can opt out" thing. Either way, it helps pay for the service.
-4
gekogekogeko Jul 27, 2016 +1
Wait. IF a post becomes a successful advertisement, what cut does the original submitter get of the proceeds of their original content?
1
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +1
What about revenue-generating links within normal text posts? That way they're totally non-intrusive as well as generating revenue for listnook whenever anyone clicks it. Face it, people hate ads so they're infinitely more likely to click a post within a thread than they are clicking an actual promoted ad
1
piotrex43 Jul 26, 2016
I'm okey with this addition. Please note that I don't like ads. Many people say that listnook is going to be digg clone and die because of promoted content on frontpage. But I see how listnook tries to make ads as not obtrusive as possible. They really do. It's one spot on frontpage, clearly stated as promoted. Also, this bar was already there, now they are only adding another advertisement type. Other social networks are much more obtrusive with ads. Listnook is a business, they need to make money, they cannot work solely on listnook gold money. But listnookors are very resistant to any changes, even the most transparent ones that will probably never affect them. So yea, I see and appreciate your efforts listnook staff. I hope you will do best decisions when it comes to balanced advertising, and continue to find ways of getting money that won't involve selling user data and compromising user privacy. Thank you.
0
TheAngryOnes Jul 26, 2016 +6
You say you'll get permission from the poster before allowing their content to be promoted by a company. Does that mean that you will be doing extensive research to make sure that the content being promoted isn't a repost, and making sure you ask the original poster of the content permission to use their picture/story/whatever for profit?
6
f0urtyfive Jul 26, 2016 +56
No thanks. # ^^^Sponsored ^^^by: ^^^The ^^^Prune ^^^Juice ^^^Council: ^^^Prune ^^^juice, ^^^it's ^^^the ^^^wrinkliest ^^^fruit ^^^juice!
56
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +1
Where's my piece of the Sara Lee pie? Are we supposed to sign away our beautiful intellectual property for nothing in return? Sara Lee pies are shit, obviously.
1
Moonpenny Jul 27, 2016 +1
>Our sales team reaches out to the author of the post to get explicit permission to use the post as part of a promoted user post Would it be possible, perhaps, to pre-opt-in or pre-opt-out?
1
[deleted] Jul 26, 2016 +1
[deleted]
1
[deleted] Jul 27, 2016 +1
So could some one doing an ama, like a presidential hopeful, pay to have only the questions they like and paint them in a good light at the top?
1
redikulous Jul 26, 2016 +25
How about you run the site off of Gold donations? Wasn't that the point? I see gilded posts everyday. Can you give us a breakdown on how many donations you get per day vs. how much it costs to run this site? (I'm not talking about the meter, I want to see real numbers).
25
Hedgehogemperor Jul 26, 2016 +2
https://i.imgur.com/z5x3ABs.gifv
2
Pascalwb Jul 26, 2016 +1
So why would anybody pay for this if it was already some post on the front page? Also won't this generate more posts about some brand, just to get money from these ads? If it works.
1
chibistarship Jul 26, 2016 +1
Here's what /u/starfishjenga (and Listnook in general) isn't telling you: Currently Listnook makes no money from astroturfed posts. They are hoping to convince advertisers that are making astroturfed posts to also use their astroturfed posts as traditional advertising. They want to make money from this type of advertising.
1
koproller Jul 26, 2016 +7
>We don’t believe the rewards on offer are enough to change people’s behavior in this case, but we’ll keep an eye on it and deal with any problems that arise. The only thing I agree on more, is the wonderful taste of coca-cola.
7
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