I'm a fan of this. It's their history and heritage. It belongs to them
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[deleted]May 1, 2026
+70
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[deleted]May 1, 2026
-10
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-10
[deleted]May 1, 2026
-11
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UrsusRenataMay 1, 2026
+17
Who? The recorded history goes back a thousand years; it changed hands a number of times across now extinct borders.
17
KatNeedsABiggerBoatMay 1, 2026
+32
The Vedas were written *four* thousand years ago.
32
SatynMalanaphyMay 1, 2026
+21
They were not. They were RECITED three thousand years ago, and written down later than that.
21
KatNeedsABiggerBoatMay 1, 2026
+1
[“The Vedas existed in oral form and were passed down from master to student for generations until they were committed to writing between c. 1500 - c. 500 BCE (the so-called Vedic Period) in India.”](https://www.worldhistory.org/The_Vedas/)
So, possibly close to three and a half thousand years ago, and at the youngest of that possible date, still longer than one thousand years ago.
[Another, with a timeline.](https://www.worldhistory.org/timeline/The_Vedas/)
1
SatynMalanaphyMay 3, 2026
+1
There's na caveat. The Rig Veda was definitely COMPOSED around the 1500-1000 BCE period, with the others following, but they were not WRITTEN down until later in the first millennium BCE. The link itself contradicts itself in the timeline in that regard. There are no scripts available in India before the Ashokan inscriptions, and Kharosthi and Brahmi both seem to have evolved only in the latter half of the first millennium BCE. EVEN IF we accept, based on no available evidence, the the Vedic corpus had begun to be written down as those two earliest deciphered scripts in India were evolving in the 6th-3rd century BCE period, that still cannot override the fact that we do not have any written versions of the Vedas from the period. Until that is forthcoming, we must face facts based on available evidence and accept that while the literary corpus was being created, amended and transmitted by an elite group of few in the first millennium BCE, writing akin to Ancient Egypt, the Levant and Mesopotamia simply has not been documented within the subcontinent (with the undeciphered and unrelated Indus script being the exception).
1
KatNeedsABiggerBoatMay 4, 2026
+1
Well, I’m not going to be that person who yells “source bro!” But will *keep* continuing to search for evidence of this.
Also, I provided *two* links… to which one specifically were you referring? And I’d rather be corrected than continually wrong—which part is contradictory?
1
SatynMalanaphyMay 4, 2026
The timeline. The second link.
The Vedas may well have been composed in the 1500-500 BCE timeline, but there's no documentary evidence to prove that they were written down. We know that within the Sanskrit tradition, oral transmission in a guru-shisya sampradaya that excluded most people from access to information. It's with Ashoka's propaganda inscriptions that we have documented scripts and writing akin to other places.
0
KatNeedsABiggerBoatMay 4, 2026
That’s because the Vedas weren’t all written down in one sitting, one decade, or even one century. That’s where the assumed “contradiction” comes from. *much like the Bible was written over roughly a 1500 year span.
“The earlier Brahmana and Mantra texts of the Vedas would then have been produced around 1000 to 800 and 1200 to 1000 respectively….
The Vedic Period (c. 1500 - c. 500 BCE) is the era in which the Vedas were committed to writing, but this has nothing to do with the age of the concepts or the oral traditions themselves.”
Quoting again from the previous World History article, complete with its bibliography and sources.
I’m happy to find more.
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SatynMalanaphy6 days ago
-1
Please do.
-1
Kumquats_indeedMay 1, 2026
+19
One of the items mentioned in the article was stolen in India and smuggled into the US in the 80s. The article doesn't mention any details about the rest of the items, but if they were from similar smuggling operations then it there would probably be police reports in India regarding the thefts to go off of to figure out who the artifacts should be returned to.
19
Mt8045May 1, 2026
+16
The returned artifacts are documented as having been stolen, recently.
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Electronic_Topic1958May 3, 2026
+3
These statues were promised to New York 3000 years ago.
3
MorganrowMay 1, 2026
+14
Maybe the people who these artifacts matter most to. These people’s ancestors. Doesn’t belong to western gawkers for a fee
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Kumquats_indeedMay 1, 2026
+1
Or at least for the one item specifically mentioned in the article, back to the family or institution it was stolen from in the 80s.
1
ChickenMarsala4500May 1, 2026
I agree to an extent, this particular agreement seems like a real positive move. Lots of museum objects should be returned to their country of origin, but I'm also so grateful that I'm able to see things from around the world without leaving my state. Often the excuse of "keeping artifacts safe" is bullshit but sometimes there's real merit to that argument.
Plenty of people in NY (and all over the world) who have Indian heritage, and who in my opinion should have access to that stuff just as much as Indians living in India. Also, Ancient History is world heritage, and everyone should have access to Indian artifacts regardless of their personal ethnic background.
Artifact ownership and museum ethics is a nuanced topic for sure, but I'm glad these pieces won't be sitting in the MET basement collecting dust. I think in a perfect world we'd have some type of world heritage organization that would manage a large portion of artifacts so they're accessible to people all over.
0
Consistent-Throat130May 1, 2026
-3
On the flip side, it's a hand out to an authoritarian regime.
-3
kbasante265May 1, 2026
+7
Truly return it or a loan return where they will do it to look good and then come back for it later.
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Affectionate_Tip_934May 1, 2026
+76
650+ items in one return. Imagine how many are still sitting in private collections being called decor.
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TrainDestroyerMay 1, 2026
+31
I mean I could, but I'm taking joy in knowing that there's 650+ items on their way back to their cultural homes
31
bb_kelly77May 1, 2026
+6
I really doubt they'll be used any more different by the Indian Upper caste... culture doesn't matter, rich people are rich people
6
BitCurious622May 1, 2026
+10
Actually these will go straight to museums, we got a lot of those around here and thankfully not filled with stolen stuff.
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bb_kelly77May 1, 2026
+2
But WOULD you be shocked if they soon ended up transferred to the rich as decorations
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BitCurious622May 1, 2026
+4
Yes very much so, since thats state property now and the penalty would be more than just a lot of money. Do you even know how these exchanges work? The gov can earn a steady income from loaning these to other countries than by selling them off to some rich dude for a one time payment.
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bb_kelly77May 1, 2026
-2
Many other government officials in the world would rather have them for themselves as status symbols... I have very VERY little confidence that Indian government officials are any less greedy than the rest of the world
-2
BitCurious622May 1, 2026
+5
These are documented by the MoC, your intution has little to do with ground reality. These arent some artifact that got found in some arch survey by the ASI and then easily sold of in the underground market yk?
5
AydoincMay 1, 2026
+3
Do you have any proof that this has happened? Anyways, since you believe government officials are greedy all over the world, it wouldn’t make a difference where the artifacts are kept. Good talk.
3
SarsaparillaDudeMay 1, 2026
+79
Somewhat related, but there's a great podcast called Shit the British Stole that takes deep dives into individual artifacts, how they ended up in UK museums, and, in some cases, the story of their repatriation.
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retirednightshiftMay 3, 2026
+5
British Museum was asked to return many antiquities. However they refused because they are not done looking at it!
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Indifferent_ResponseMay 1, 2026
+10
More museums need to do this. There's so many stolen artifacts everywhere...
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HeimerdingerdongerMay 1, 2026
+64
$14 Million? Nice. Thank you.
The thievin' Brits have over a Trillion dollars of other people's stuff stashed away.
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kstargate-425May 1, 2026
+30
Including the Royal family with their Crown jewels like the 105.6 carat diamond Koh-i-Noor although like half a dozen countries claim its theirs so its probably not going anywhere
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CT_Phipps-AuthorMay 1, 2026
+56
An Indian court said that it was technically something that the British did own due to being given them by Duleep Singh under pressure from Gulab Singh to gain British aid. Nevermind he was 11 at the time.
[https://news.sky.com/story/india-koh-i-noor-gem-given-to-uk-not-stolen-10248324](https://news.sky.com/story/india-koh-i-noor-gem-given-to-uk-not-stolen-10248324)
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JuVondyMay 1, 2026
+27
Tbf, thats what happens when you pick your leaders based on bloodline. Not Britain’s fault and they practice the same thing. Colonialism is wrong, but him being 11 is irrelevant to his authority to make the decision to give the diamond to the British.
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liberalindianguyMay 1, 2026
+10
From the simthsonian website
\> After Ranjit Singh’s death in 1839, the Punjabi throne passed between four different rulers over four years. At the end of the violent period, the only people left in line for the throne were a young boy, Duleep Singh, and his mother, Rani Jindan. And in 1849, after imprisoning Jindan, the British forced Duleep to sign a legal document amending the Treaty of Lahore, that required Duleep to give away the Koh-i-Noor and all claim to sovereignty. The boy was only 10 years old.
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JuVondyMay 1, 2026
+9
Yeah, that’s what happens at the end of the war you get forced to do shit you don’t want to. How do you think the Singh dynasty got the diamond in the first place?
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XASASSINMay 1, 2026
+2
Right so we agree they stole the jewel after oppressing a group of people and forcing them under duress.
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JuVondyMay 1, 2026
+5
As is the history of empires, yes.
Note, just because I think the British have a right to claim the diamond as a spoil of war, doesn’t mean I think it’s unreasonable to ask for it back. And I do think it would an honorable gesture to return it.
At the end of the day though its a rock fought over and traded by nobility who exploited the blood and sweat of common people. On both sides. Don’t fall for nationalist sentiments trying to convince you any of this is for “the people.”
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HeimerdingerdongerMay 1, 2026
+3
It does not matter technically who there rulers were.
The wealth belonged to the people. Not the British people.
3
CT_Phipps-AuthorMay 1, 2026
+1
The diamond should be given back on ethical grounds.
But legally, a shit ton more should be returned because it was straight up looted.
1
sandolllarsMay 1, 2026
-6
Gifted under duress = stolen.
-6
HeimerdingerdongerMay 1, 2026
-2
They get paid to claim it so that the thief can keep it.
-2
Alarming_OrchidMay 1, 2026
+14
Watch these things end up on the black market in under a year
14
nyanbatmanMay 1, 2026
+12
The British should too
12
AmesenatorMay 1, 2026
+2
Now your turn, British Museum!
2
Jackzap65May 1, 2026
+2
Well I've been to the British Museum, and it's pure British. Not a single thing from the Near, Middle or Far East. Move along citizens. Nothing to see here,
2
JoeT2OOOMay 1, 2026
+1
Now return the land America stole from the indigenous people.
1
WittyCry4374May 1, 2026
-2
About time the UK did too!
-2
Sturdily5092May 1, 2026
-9
The US and other European colonists still hold millions of pieces of treasure, art and antiquities pillaged and stolen from countries they enslaved for centuries, these should be a curse on those ex-colonist powers until they are returned
-9
AGooDoneMay 1, 2026
-31
I'm glad to see this. Is it 2026? We should have been doing this well before now.
Imagine the curators, "Behold a treasure from a far away land!" "How'd you get that?" "Um, it's been here for a long time oh, since the age of slavery and colonial times?"
Maybe you shouldn't have that!
-31
AydoincMay 1, 2026
+44
Based on the article the pieces were seized from smugglers. So, it makes sense to hold them as evidence for trial then return them. Which is what it seems to have happened in this case. What does slavery have to do with this case?
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HirokiTokuyamaMay 1, 2026
-41
I wonder what's even gonna be left in museums, if we eventually return all the exhibits to ones who truly have rights to own them?
-41
pickledbrawnMay 1, 2026
+45
Lot of museums loan artefacts from other museums.
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HirokiTokuyamaMay 1, 2026
-33
I mean apart from loaned ones, ofc
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TzazonMay 1, 2026
+23
Plenty of museums have stuff sourced not via thieves like known art smuggler Subhash Kapoor. Some of the artifacts mentioned in the article were stolen in the 1980s and smuggled into the US then. Not even during the colonial era.
It is just returning stuff in our displays taken by thieves. There are plenty of other things we can display, get loaned for tours, etc that don't have to be stolen and never returned.
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PoliteFocacciaMay 1, 2026
+17
Domestic exhibits. The Indian pieces will go to an Indian museum. New York has plenty of things to put in a New York museum.
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blucycloneMay 1, 2026
+5
Museums won't suddenly stop existing, they will just be filled with items they actually own, or items that have been loaned to them...
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bigavzMay 1, 2026
+1
Dudes never been to a museum
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onlymostlydeadMay 1, 2026
+1
Spirit Halloween stores, obviously.
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RiffBeastxMay 1, 2026
-5
Mamdani practicing what he preaches!
-5
Ek_Chutki_SindoorMay 1, 2026
+14
It has nothing to do with Mamdani. The work behind this exchange has been going on since 2012 or so.
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bb_kelly77May 1, 2026
-6
My main question is, what exactly does India plan on doing with them?
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rollerblade7May 1, 2026
+12
Their turn to look at them
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bb_kelly77May 1, 2026
-9
Yeah, even though the Upper caste are the only ones with the time and money to go to museums so we might as well have consolidated them all in the British Museum... we could also hold the artifacts hostage "no heritage for you until the poor have livable conditions", the Indians those artifacts were stolen from would be ashamed of the state of India today
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[deleted]May 1, 2026
-6
[removed]
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BitCurious622May 1, 2026
-3
Atleast they wont be used as a d**** for your sis's OF.
83 Comments