ListNook

Non_Player-Character Jan 25, 2017 +2534

I'm liking the increase of these 'what's happening' announcement posts. Keep up the great work! 40% of views from apps is surprising to me! Might have to check them out. Also, first time hearing of this rework. I think a lot of listnook's charm is the relative plainness of the website, although I don't know enough about code to tell how the backend works. Is this a functional change, visual rework or just a complete overhaul of everything?

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spez Jan 25, 2017 +973

I agree re charm. We don't have to lose that feeling to make things better. Listnook still runs code that I wrote ~~ten~~ twelve years ago when I was 21. I really hope by the end of this year most of that trash is gone! e: getting older.

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +117

I'm not sure if this is an app problem or a site problem but many of the app's seem to lack any meaningful way for users to use flairs (especially for posts.) This stops some subs from being able to filter or curate their posts. Is there any way for this to be rectified? Thanks!

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lamefork Jan 25, 2017 +22

At least make the site more fluid/responsive. The sidebar overtakes everything when working at smaller screen sizes and smaller window sizes (aka listnooking at work). There are plenty of ways that a fluid width, responsive site would be better for usability and approachability as well with just a few media queries and not having a full on separate site for mobile/desktop

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MetalPirate Jan 25, 2017 +213

Is that 40% from all Listnook apps (including 3rd party) or just the official one?

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +62

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5panks Jan 25, 2017 +53

I doubt it. Any more information given would either out a negative light on the mobile client due to low usage, or on the app developers who will feel the information was given to do play what they ad to the community. Think of it "10% of viewers used the mobile website and 30% use 3rd party apps" makes the mobile website sound bad and the opposite statement would make 3rd party apps seem pointless to a lot of people and people would start to question why it's worth it for listnook invest time in them.

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +9

To this day i am a h******* loyal fan to alien blue. Luckily still works for me good as new too. Running latest versions of ios and everything my dudes. Had it since like 2-3 years before it got bought by listnook's main crew. Edit: Fixed my rhymes.

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +10

I agree. The company I work for (large company providing many services, with most of the audience 35+), passed the 50% mobile traffic mark last year. This might have been worded as in we had 40% mobile traffic last year.

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TryingT0Wr1t3 Jan 25, 2017 +31

Seriously, hard-coded -> generic -> hard-coded, once you are senior you will understand that the code you wrote when you were 21 does the job and you should do something else, not rewrite it. It is blazing fast today on the desktop and it SUCKS in the mobile, and the app eats all my data.

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sleepyafrican Jan 25, 2017 +68

Would there be any option to retain the current look of listnook if we don't like the new look?

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +939

1. Do you guys check out /r/ideasfortheadmins? There are quite a few great ideas that you could choose from there to introduce to listnook 2. What is the process to get subs that blatantly violate [listnook's involuntary p********** rules](https://listnook.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205704725-What-is-involuntary-p**********-and-glorification-of-sexual-violence-) banned or atleast have an admin look at them? 3. I wish the /r/communitydialogue project gets started again. There are quite a lot of things moderators wish to discuss with the admins like /u/achievementunlockd. I hope you're able to allocate more resources to this sublistnook. Two particular areas of concern for me anyway is how to deal with spam that is not caught by the spambot at /r/spam, and how to better deal with ban evaders. 4. Why do admins mod hate subs like /r/onionhate? They ban innocent users from /r/OnionLovers 5. Can we have better traffic stats for sublistnooks? The existing stats exclude mobile traffic and are not very indepth.

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spez Jan 25, 2017 +582

1. Yes. The limiting factor for improvements isn't ideas, it's our ancient codebase and hesitation to break things like RES and custom styles. In that respect, I feel like we've been held hostage from a development point of view (Stockholm syndrome?). That's why we're so excited to rewrite desktop web. It's going to be a doozy, but worth it in the end. 2. Please send to contact@listnook.com 3. Yes. I'll follow up there. I know it got a little derailed with Spezgiving and the holidays. 4. If u/sodypop says so, that's the way it is

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awkwardtheturtle Jan 25, 2017 +149

Important follow up question regarding Question 4: How do **you** feel about onions? Are they: - a.) An acceptable ingredient that while is not terribly important to a meal, detracts little - b.) Literally the bee's knees and they should be present in every dish - c.) Literally the Devil's root vegetable. They're a scourge on this earth, a wretched and inferior filler ingredient, and an abomination to the very idea of culinary greatness We appreciate your answer. Please keep in mind that only one of these answers could result in the esteemed and remarkable reward of being made a moderator at /r/OnionHate. Have a nice day.

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spez Jan 25, 2017 +255

I have three tiers of food dislike. Tier 1: I hate them. I will spit them out. Olives. Tier 2: I don't like them, but will get it down to be polite. Eggplant. Tier 3: I don't like them, but I wish I did, and I'm trying. Tomatoes, Mushrooms.

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RedShirtSmith Jan 25, 2017 +102

This hasn't straightened up your onion preferences at all. Personally I don't like them, but I understand their importance for many flavors and for nutrition.

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ElNido Jan 26, 2017 +12

Onions are like 90% water and contain low amounts of micro- and macro-nutrients actually. It's the phytochemicals that are most nutritionally intriguing about them.

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +143

>I feel like we've been held hostage from a development point of view Does this mean listnook will prioritize utility over design? Because current proto listnook 2.0 designs are pretty but lacking entirely a lot of functionality. On mobile this may work out, but your power users are on desktop. How will you tackle that?

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honestbleeps Jan 25, 2017 +179

> Yes. The limiting factor for improvements isn't ideas, it's our ancient codebase and hesitation to break things like RES and custom styles. In that respect, I feel like we've been held hostage from a development point of view (Stockholm syndrome?). That's why we're so excited to rewrite desktop web. It's going to be a doozy, but worth it in the end. I had no idea listnook had gotten to the point where RES breaking was considered a hindrance on its ability to update the site... this is news to me, and something we'd have been more than happy to help coordinate with / work on - even as a bunch of unpaid schlubs. I've always expected listnook to periodically break RES - it relies on specific HTML structure and CSS classes to exist. after years of just breaking RES before (which is FINE - RES is a volunteer run free extension, break it all you want), Listnook has in the past couple of years been kind enough in the past to say "hey, heads up, we might break RES or we want to know if this will break RES"? ... and that was great -- hey, listnook's trying to give us a heads up so we can maintain RES better! but now you're phrasing it as if this beast I created has held back listnook's ability to innovate.. and that feels like buck-passing onto me and my team.

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ductyl Jan 25, 2017 +74

EDIT: Oops, nevermind!

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honestbleeps Jan 25, 2017 +11

I can certainly see it both ways, but the way it is worded I've had several people messaging me asking "WTF is with that?" because they interpreted it the way I interpret it (before my reply was written)... if he meant it your way, he didn't do a good job of articulating it in my opinion... > Even if you as the RES developer are fine with them breaking RES with site improvements, there are a ton of users who would scream bloody murder if RES stopped working because of some perceived "worthless change" to the site. they'd scream at us, though, not listnook... almost assuredly... they've broken RES in the past and this is what happens... and we live with it as a part of the volunteer job, even if it's not fun.

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ductyl Jan 25, 2017 +10

I feel like "site redesign" might be an occasion where people are upset with the listnook team for "ruining everything", even if it's functionally the same as "altered the way something is rendered that happened to break RES". But either way, bless you and your team for your wonderful work! :)

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honestbleeps Jan 25, 2017 +16

appreciate the kind words and the perspective... in all honesty, a site redesign should have a staging site... and if they had one and gave us access to it, we could update RES accordingly and have it not break. I mean, that sounds like extra work "just to appease RES", but really it's not, because they should have a staging site anyhow for their own internal testing reasons.

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ganlet20 Jan 25, 2017 +11

I read it as almost a compliment that, that they appreciated how important RES is and didn't want to make any half baked changes that may break RES. I've gotten a little annoyed at listnook's admins in the past for breaking RES and I think they should QA RES with any release and if it breaks then work with you guys to get it fixed prior to release. I'm not saying that should have to QA all the plugins that interact with listnook but RES is a huge component for majority of their long term user base.

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mkdz Jan 25, 2017 +265

> The limiting factor for improvements isn't ideas, it's our ancient codebase and hesitation to break things The story of software development everywhere

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duckvimes_ Jan 25, 2017 +68

The fun part of software development is when you look back at code *you wrote* and you're not entirely sure how it works.

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aladyjewel Jan 25, 2017 +57

> Hey, what noob wrote that? > _reads git blame_ > Thanks, past-me.

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courtiebabe420 Jan 25, 2017 +10

> I know it got a little derailed with Spezgiving and the holidays. It got derailed with a response from admins that was tone deaf to what moderators wanted and expected out of the project. I would love for it to come back, but it needs to be clear what the goal is, so we don't get blindsided with "guidelines" that don't actually solve any of the problems we thought we were solving.

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Sambo13 Jan 25, 2017 +270

Could you share the stats on image hosting? I'd be really interested to see how Listnooks own platform has taken over imgur in a relatively short time frame. Keep up the great work!

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spez Jan 25, 2017 +364

More than 50% of the uploads are to us now. This is encouraging because we didn't really promote the feature, and the flow could be a lot better (and it will get a lot better).

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V2Blast Jan 25, 2017 +101

It's been brought up several times in /r/bugs, but several people have had issues uploading from mobile; they're able to submit the listnookuploads link, but clicking on it takes you to a 404 page. [Here's an example.](https://www.listnook.com/r/bugs/comments/5pu6gu/every_day_i_see_users_post_images_from/) (I'm just bugging you here because I haven't seen an admin response about it there.)

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Drunken_Economist Jan 25, 2017 +45

fix for this is incoming next week! The mobile apps are using the same `i.redd.it` image upload flow in their next version, which also has the benefit of prettier URLs and file extensions on the end

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spryes Jan 25, 2017 +75

For some reason, i.redd.it links are extremely delayed in loading for me. Sometimes it takes 10 seconds for it to start downloading. Any reason for that? listnookuploads links on the other hand are consistently fast.

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +28

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Dahamonnah Jan 25, 2017 +41

I don't know if this issue is on my end or not, but Imgur links load a lot faster than the ones uploaded to listnook. I use BaconReader on Android.

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pchc_lx Jan 25, 2017 +20

can anything be done about the ugly URLs? I try to send image links to people only to delete them and reconsider after seeing the mess I've just copy pasted. maybe this is just how my app handles, not sure.

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +8351

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spez Jan 25, 2017 +1921

I hear you. The designs aren't finalized, we're mostly focused on the tech at the moment. I would like to share an interesting learning. Since the beginning of Listnook, our product design philosophy has been to cram as much content into view as possible, our thinking being that it increases the odds that a user will see something they like. In our native mobile apps, we use a card view, which basically shows one piece of content at a time. Interestingly enough, engagement in the native apps is approximately 4x higher than the desktop. I see this in my own usage as well. I go through a ton more content on mobile than I do on desktop. This could be because everything is pre-expanded or because the apps have infinite scroll. We'll test these things thoroughly before deploying to a wide audience, of course, but it goes to show that our intuition isn't always correct.

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +1314

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applextrent Jan 25, 2017 +332

Mobile first design philosophy improves engagement on mobile. Desktop is a whole other beast, and desktop users are typically use to experiencing Listnook in a different way. Using a mobile device is a lot more similar to television in the sense that you only really view one selection of content at a time due to the limitation in screen size. It's not an effective device for skimming. It's better at viewing the top visual content (which is what the majority of people want). While the mobile card view improves engagement with more visual content, I bet you it's less engaging for just text posts and longtail content, and obscure sublistnooks. Old school power users like myself prefer desktop for the ability to skim for the exact content that interests them and ignore all the fluff. That fluffy content however is what the majority of users are looking for. It's going to be very difficult to mimic the mobile design philosophy with desktop because if you do move to a more card based design your going to consolidate more and more traffic to top posts increasing top post engagement, but likely reduce engagement for text posts, and higher value but less fluffy content. Anyhow, please take power users into consideration. People use Listnook for a wide variety of usecases and it shouldn't just be about catering to people who enjoy fluffy content, even if they're the majority. If you do then Listnook will merely become another Facebook newsfeed, and people will get bored eventually and move on. It's the layers of the onion that matter for long term engagement on desktop.

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masterofshadows Jan 25, 2017 +27

To be honest, I still much prefer Listnook Is Fun for Android for this exact reason. Perhaps there is room for both design philosophies and that Power Users can use third party while those looking for more fluff can use the official app.

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applextrent Jan 25, 2017 +5

What I would do is actually provide multiple interfaces. Hopefully they're setting up the backend / frontend architecture so the frontend is more modular and can offer a range of UI/UX experiences. This way they can provide advanced options for how content is displayed. You could provide a default "card" view, but then have an option for a more traditional list like view like what we have now, and possibly even play around with grid views (which could be cool for image subs and video subs). Possibly even give subs the ability to select their default view, but give the user the ability to over-ride them as well. As u/spez said they're mostly focused on the tech right now. I mean I guess that is one way to approach it, I usually work the other way. Come up with a design first, and then figure out what tech stack I need to make it a reality. Seems kind of backwards to me to focus on tech stack before the design, but to each their own.

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RedAero Jan 25, 2017 +71

This right here. Of course engagement is higher for mobile, **you force them to stare at every single submission**.

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +109

A lot of older folks like myself tend to view listnook as the new Usenet. Information density is important to us. If we didn't care about information density we'd use terrible web forums. I don't use web forums, at all, even for communities where I mod other parts of the online presence (e.g. twitch/discord/IRC). I pay for my listnook usage. I've had gold on this account for almost as long as it's existed. I give out gildings liberally (two in this post alone). People like me like listnook enough to pay, essentially, a subscription fee for it. I don't know how else to get you folks to listen besides waving money around, so hopefully that'll accomplish something. Hopefully the two gildings (one of which is mine) and 2.4k points on the comment you replied to is enough of an incentive to stay the f*** away from the awful mobile design for the desktop app. They're two different platforms with two different goals and two fundamentally different UX assumptions. Combining them makes negative sense. *e*: More words

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willclerkforfood Jan 26, 2017 +9

I'm with you. Tonight, every time I've gone to the front page on my iPad, it has redirected to the mobile site and I've had to manually go to the menu and reselect desktop. Mobile on a screen this large held in landscape mode is like 90% white space and the expanded preview images are almost always 2x taller than the screen. It's patently ridiculous. I'm hoping this is a short-term bug, but at this point I'm not optimistic.

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +139

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boostedjoose Jan 25, 2017 +103

> I see this in my own usage as well. I go through a ton more content on mobile than I do on desktop. It's opposite for me. I find the apps make browsing slower, because I cannot use features like Listnook Enhancement Suites 'show all images', ama's have their own button. 'hide child comments' is a freaking life saver. I'm begging you. **Please do not fix what is not broken** on the desktop site. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease. It's perfect the way it is, in my opinion of course. Kudos to the Listnook team for making an awesome site. I've been here since 2010 and don't plan on leaving any time soon.

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +181

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +20

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +305

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VagueSomething Jan 25, 2017 +56

I always always always set my listnook to desktop view while on my phone. I hate this dumbing down that tech has became obsessed with. I've stopped using many sites because they've "simplified" their look and went "modern". I came to listnook because I was fed up of these other sites that wanted to be trendy and accessible to toddlers. Lets face facts too, smartphones have huge screens now and that isn't going anywhere so a zoom in and out lets you find your sweet spot rather than a forced one at a time of items. It's not just websites. I've been using Sony phones for about 6 years now and every time they have had a system update and brought the interface closer to the style of Samsung and Apple, it is disgusting and childish. Fisher Price My First Smartphone. I don't use the other brands for a reason, don't copy other brands. Treat me like an adult, I don't need large cartoonish logos or emoji shite everywhere, I don't need jazzy fonts, I can handle more than once piece of information on a page. Improve the workings behind it, make it more reliable and faster, make it safer but only do small tweaks to the actual aesthetic. Make certain things easier to find or more clearly marked but try to keep the essence. I've given up on MySpace, Facebook, MSN/Skype, and many boredom killers like FML so giving up listnook isn't out of the question if the site becomes too different and follows thei urge to be trendy.

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VonZigmas Jan 25, 2017 +15

I gave the mobile site a decent go and found it even more awful than I thought of it before. It's like they took the familiar interface and the way things work and changed everything about it. Why would the first page upon selecting my own name be the "about" section, when there's basically nothing of interest to be found? I don't know about everyone else, but I visit my profile almost exclusively to check on my comments or posts. On mobile they're separated in two other sections. Was it so hard to just keep the "overview" as the main page? Maybe that's just what everyone else wanted and I'm not aware? Inbox seemed awful too. For one, I almost never got notified that someone replied to me. Seems like a hit or miss. Not even sure the reason for that. Anyway, I'm *pretty* certain comment or post replies are the most popular thing around here. Once again, the two are separated and moved to two other categories. What? I basically never even get actual messages, yet that's the first thing you see. Does anyone want that too? Comments and post replies being separate is *okay*, but far as I'm concerned you can't do shit with them. Can't directly vote, reply, mark as read/unread. To do the first few, you need to tap on the thread, which takes you to the comment with some context - okay - but it's as if read/unread doesn't exist at all in the mobile site. I believe that might be related why I never even get notified when someone replies to me. IF I now mark a message as "unread" on desktop, it doesn't show shit on mobile. Why the hell is that a thing? Why make desktop and mobile clients work like separate entities? Considering it always logs you off whenever you switch between desktop/mobile - it's like they are. On top of that every now and again comments just keep loading for way longer than they're supposed to, or some thing just don't work all of a sudden.

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[deleted] Jan 26, 2017 +9

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ProGamerGov Jan 25, 2017 +14

I always use the desktop view on my devices, but my iPad does not have the "force the site into desktop view" setting unlike my other devices. The changes made today are now forcing my iPad into the shitty mobile site with no way to change it. So Listnook already fucked up whatever updates they did today.

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VonZigmas Jan 25, 2017 +14

Oh god, it actually keeps going to the mobile site on each new tab. Why. How do you even f*** this up? Whenever I pick 'desktop site' on my phone it respects that until I wipe the browser data. F*** that's awful.

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wredditcrew Jan 25, 2017 +12

Why the f*** can't I just select which version of the site I want to go to, have an a per-device cookie for it to be remembered? If I want to use m.listnook.com on my desktop, or the proper desktop site on my phone (which I *always* do), why is that not easy? Hnnng.

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googahgee Jan 25, 2017 +146

I know I'm probably one outlier but I just want to say that I really prefer the desktop site to the mobile site, it looks much more cleaner, detailed, and I can see more. I almost never use the mobile site, except when I want to browse /r/pics or another picture-based sublistnook like /r/aww. I hope the new update doesn't make the desktop site unusable by mobile users, but I'm optimistic that it will work out. I guess my question is: have you considered mobile users that use the desktop site in the designing of the new desktop site?

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HungJurror Jan 25, 2017 +26

Quick question: are you going to take care of the /r/all view filtered sublistnooks problem before the redesign? I've seen many people (myself included) complain about how it shows the filtered sublistnooks on the side of the page. This means that when p*** is sorted out of /r/all, your /r/all page makes a nice large list of all the p*** you've filtered out, which makes me not get on /r/all on desktop due to a fiancée, mom, and boss Thanks for all the work you do!

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +195

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +105

The fact I had to scroll this far to find a responder that understood the reason for higher mobile usage makes me very sad indeed. I PREFER the desktop site over any mobile app, but I don't carry around my computer with dual 24" displays in my pocket. I'm constantly on Listnook on my phone in the bathroom, in waiting rooms, sitting in the living room during commercials, etc. The same as millions of other people. Just because I use mobile far more doesn't mean that I prefer the layout of mobile.

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procomsignathid Jan 25, 2017 +87

Spez, please just make sure thatn when I hit the "back" button on the browzer it doesn't lose my place. I hate it when "infinite scroll" sites do that, and one reason why I don't use the mobile-formatted site when im on my cell.

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +76

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Salt-Pile Jan 25, 2017 +9

> 2. Much of the world has slow or bad connections. This is a really important point. One of the great things about listnook is the geographical diversity of its users. One of the things that attracted me to listnook was how little data it uses and how fast it is to load. To make it data-heavy is to make it slower, less accessible, and more expensive for a significant number of people, decreasing diversity on the site.

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PlasmaSheep Jan 25, 2017 +488

Please also don't bog down the desktop site with 10MB of javascript. The mobile site is basically unusable because it takes forever to load a page. My listnook app loads the content 3x faster.

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reseph Jan 25, 2017 +75

Agreed. I posted this in their feedback sublistnook. I had a user tell me "it's just on my side"... https://www.listnook.com/r/mobileweb/comments/5pp13f/video_why_is_listnook_mobile_so_slow/

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +17

Try i.listnook.com. It's their original mobile site. It's not pretty, but damn it it's functional.

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LocutusOfBorges Jan 25, 2017 +45

>I would like to share an interesting learning. Since the beginning of Listnook, our product design philosophy has been to cram as much content into view as possible, our thinking being that it increases the odds that a user will see something they like. In our native mobile apps, we use a card view, which basically shows one piece of content at a time. Interestingly enough, engagement in the native apps is approximately 4x higher than the desktop. tl;dr The desktop redesign will be flooded with whitespace, and we don't care what you think.

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jofwu Jan 25, 2017 +49

This reasoning seems flawed. People don't necessarily use mobile because of convenient design. They use mobile because it's convenient. Who's to say a different mobile design wouldn't be better? Frankly, I dislike the official listnook app because it has a poor design compared to most unofficial apps.

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Ispilledsomething Jan 25, 2017 +319

I am going to add on to the comments here. I really like the way Listnook is currently designed and find the Official Listnook app unusable because of its layout. That is why I use Alien Blue.

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CipherClump Jan 25, 2017 +167

I use listnook is fun. It's basically the desktop site on an app.

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Zweifuss Jan 25, 2017 +8

I think this is a difference that stems from the medium in which it lives. Cramming a ton of info in a small phone screen makes little sense, and on the phone, people are already used to working in "one piece of content" mode. User's expectations from desktop is entirely different. People look at it form far away, and they expect to multi-task and get a "power user" experience. Just look at how empty do Microsoft's Metro/Modern apps look on a large screen in Win10, compared to any standard program's UI. So remember: on mobile, tidy is king. On the desktop, information rich is king. Just look at the pushback from powerusers in gmail etc when redesigns went overboard with white space.

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secondlamp Jan 25, 2017 +30

> Interestingly enough, engagement in the native apps is approximately 4x higher than the desktop How does this compare to 3rd party apps which don't have this view?

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dakotahawkins Jan 25, 2017 +42

Is going "through a ton more content" a necessarily positive experience for you as a user? You didn't really say it was content you wanted to see, it sounds kind-of like it was content you were forced to see. I should try the new mobile stuff, I still use (and like) alien blue.

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +32

I would be hesitant in correlating app vs desktop usage with user preference in design. I probably use Listnook more on mobile due to lifestyle but prefer the web interface.

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funderbunk Jan 25, 2017 +85

> I see this in my own usage as well. I go through a ton more content on mobile than I do on desktop. This could be because everything is pre-expanded or because the apps have infinite scroll. OR, maybe it's because you have your phone with you more often than you're at a desktop. Holy f***, you guys are gonna f*** this thing up.

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TheChance Jan 26, 2017 +3

> In our native mobile apps, we use a card view, which basically shows one piece of content at a time. Interestingly enough, engagement in the native apps is approximately 4x higher than the desktop. This is a known phenomenon in retail. It doesn't and shouldn't apply to the desktop site, though. In retail, it's been realized that a customer faced with a wall of products, all of which serve the same purpose, is actually less likely to purchase something off that wall (stuff you actually *need* notwithstanding, since, you know, you *have* to purchase something off that wall.) This is where I stop knowing what I'm talking about. I'd wager that mobile users are more likely to engage with a given post because somebody on mobile is only *ever* capable of engaging with one piece of content at a time. Can't split your screen, tabbing is easy, switching tabs *can* be a pain. Stuff I don't expect to reply to is *more* satisfying on mobile, because I don't have to choose between typing a lengthy reply on my phone (which I frequently do anyway) or just passing the conversation by. Plus, when I'm on mobile, I'm usually riding a bus, or sitting in the passenger seat, or sitting on the can. I'm only looking for, like, a magazine article, or a bestof highlight of a really good answer to a really good question. Desktop users are engaging with the site in a completely different way. You're digesting the contents of your feed. You see fewer engagements because I am frequently consuming headlines, or else you're passing by issues and topics you're already familiar with. For my part, I want to engage with content that will occupy me for a while, or with content that I can leave in another tab and come back to later on, or (especially) with content that I think I can act on or respond to meaningfully - because I'm not just trying to read a magazine article on the can; when I'm sitting at my desk, I'm *fully engaged* in *whatever* I'm doing.

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ObscureCulturalMeme Jan 25, 2017 +146

>that doesn't change visibly unless I click on something to make it happen. **This.** Jesus, this. Sites popping up submenues and shit because I happened to pass the mouse over something nearby are unspeakably frustrating to use. If I want something to happen, I will take action; if I haven't taken an explicit action, I expect nothing to f****** happen. To date Listnook has been a welcome respite from in-your-face attention w**** web scripting.

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DarreToBe Jan 25, 2017 +367

Ditto on this. Listnook is becoming unique in the digital landscape for maintaining a sensible user interface and I'd really hate to see that dissapear with the wave of mobile-esque desktop interfaces sweeping over the web the last several years.

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HeyCarpy Jan 25, 2017 +132

"Sensible" is the perfect description for this website. It isn't stylish, and yet it has still facilitated Listnook's rise in popularity. I really hope they don't reinvent the wheel here.

132

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +16

I just like that i.listnook.com doesn't eat my data. I can still digest a ton of listnook's content, and pick and choose how I spend my data. I'm not spending more money on my already high cell phone bill just to browse Listnook.

16

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +1434

How long till this year's first listnook admin scandal? I'd like an ETA so I have snacks ready pls respond

1434

spez Jan 25, 2017 +2535

Next week around Wednesday. I generally don't like to make promises about dates, but I'm feeling pretty confident about this one.

2535

MangyWendigo Jan 25, 2017 +182

can we have a mod court? so: any interaction with a mod that is abusive, there's a link to submit the PM chain to the admins, a special inbox most mods are great but there are some mods out there i think are hurting listnook with their abuse just keep a running tally of complaints, and review mods with a high level of complaints. squelch users that complain too much i know you want to be hands off, but i'm talking about only the most egregious examples. then its up to you about what to do with these mods so at least it is known there is *some* accountability

182

HAMandCHEESEmachine Jan 31, 2017 +260

I hope you will be banning the alt-right, intolerant trash off this site. A community that instantly bans anyone posting a dissenting comment or merely a factual critique has no place on listnook and violates reddiquette, as I see it.

260

madmax_410 Jan 25, 2017 +340

i suggest you unironically make /r/the_donald and /r/EnoughTrumpSpam defaults at the same time. Claim it's for the most effective way to broadcast an array of political opinions.

340

TealComet Jan 25, 2017 +42

and then have the entire website literally treat you like hitler and an enemy of privacy, yelling about admin abuse and the "end of listnook" that whole ordeal was so f****** embarassing, really shows listnook is just on the other side of the outrage horseshoe. they're JUST as bad as SJW's when it comes to sensationalizing issues

42

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +89

You forgot the part where somebody makes an uncensored alternative to /r/news and it immediately turns into an alt-right circlejerk.

89

atomic1fire Jan 26, 2017 +16

TBH I'd rather they just make /r/neutralpolitics a default with permission from the np mods. Some parts of listnook skew wildly left, and some skew wildly right, but it would be a lot easier to argue based on facts and not finger pointing if people have a mutual ground where individual statements can be backed up by sources that everyone can agree upon.

16

novvesyn Jan 26, 2017 +65

NO. DO NOT. anything default turns to shit in no time, and neutral politics has already seen a drop in quality after its userbase grew. Anyone who wants to discuss politics neutrally will find that place on their own and I think that's the way it should be.

65

PavementBlues Jan 26, 2017 +16

I appreciate your faith in us! Not gonna lie, though: the day we agree to be a default sub would be the day that we could all enjoy a nice afternoon ice skating in Hell.

16

wogwarts Feb 1, 2017 +43

Now ban /r/the_donald! Oh wait no the shareholders wouldn't like that, would they? Or is it the advertisers? Certainly not the users desires that are priority numero uno. And if you never actually ban the_donald, you're going to lose the support of this site who right now would let you ban 1,000,000 accounts if it meant being /r/the_donald free, you could end this in a second. But you won't, because there's money involved. They say the best way to test a man's morals is to starve him, but it seems these days it's a bit more a carrot approach, isn't it?

43

DeedTheInky Jan 25, 2017 +493

If there isn't a scandal next Wednesday, I for one will be scandalized.

493

someone2639 Jan 25, 2017 +174

It's the perfect scandal, even the lack of a scandal is a scandal

174

logonomicon Jan 25, 2017 +69

Hm... is manufacturing a scandal by promising a scandal and not giving one an artificial inflation of controversy/scandal Karma? Sounds like a matter for r/Karmacourt!

69

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +10

[deleted]

10

supergauntlet Feb 1, 2017 +461

he actually did it the absolute madman

461

[deleted] Feb 1, 2017 +55

[deleted]

55

SpaceMasters Jan 25, 2017 +738

How can listnook avoid the same fate as Digg after their desktop site update?

738

spez Jan 25, 2017 +791

By testing carefully and being considerate to our users. The biggest mistake Digg made was they couldn't undo the change, or didn't want to, or just didn't.

791

raldi Jan 25, 2017 +187

How big a problem is ban evasion? Every time I've [messaged the admins](https://www.listnook.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Flistnook.com&subject=Ban%20Evasion) about a suspected case, it's always been quickly resolved, but I'm curious whether it's whack-a-mole or if the Anti-Evil team is building a robot army to automatically eradicate it as part of their 2017 OKRs. Edit, since all the replies except spez appear to have misread my comment: I'm asking about ban **evasion**, not ban abuse. As in, people who get banned and then immediately make a new sockpuppet to continue their trolling.

187

spez Jan 25, 2017 +151

A little bit of column A, a little bit of column B. As you know, solve it once by hand. Solve it twice by hand. If it's still a problem, automate it.

151

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +78

You have a real problem with some of the mods on the larger subs abusing their power. There are multiple discussions in r/eternityclub and r/centuryclub every month about mods banning people who in no way violated the established sub listnook rules. You have a handful of people who don't work for Listnook yet they control who gets to participate on the web site. Thats a lot of power you have ceded to people who through their actions control your on line reputation. And the response we get from Listnook when we complain about specific examples of this abuse is basically tough shit, its their sub they can do what they want. When was the last time you kicked off a moderator from a default sub? You need to come up with a solution to the check the ego's of some of these people. At least in the default subs. Maybe even have a nomination and voting process on an annual basis to get some of these bad eggs out.

78

AndyWarwheels Jan 25, 2017 +52

I do not think that moderation of default subs should be voted on but I do think that their should be a length of time that you can get banned from a default sub. Right now I am nearing year 3 of being banned from IAMA for asking too many people about tacos... Which really just means that I pissed off a mod and now I am not allowed to use a default sub forever, unless I break the rules of listnook and use and alt. Which I would not do. But it puts people in a shitty situation.

52

J4CKR4BB1TSL1MS Jan 25, 2017 +39

> Right now I am nearing year 3 of being banned from IAMA for asking too many people about tacos... This deeply saddens me. Keep asking people about tacos wherever you go man, don't let the tacorrists win.

39

rt4nyp Jan 25, 2017 +1319

Please don't make the rewrite of the desktop site result in a Digg 2 fiasco

1319

spez Jan 25, 2017 +3117

Can't promise that. That Digg redesign was one of the greatest days in Listnook's history!

3117

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +1078

The reason I like listnook above all others is the density of stuff on the site. All the 2.0 designs have an obsession with negative space. Please consider your power users

1078

matt01ss Jan 25, 2017 +193

Absolutely. The primary reason I started using and stuck with listnook was its minimalist design. It's very easy to see each post and read each comment. I hope they don't mess with the format/style in any way.

193

cbackas Jan 25, 2017 +147

I can see the homepage needing a redesign, but the comment section on listnook is already the best layout of any social media in my opinion.

147

iams3b Jan 25, 2017 +73

Yeah, it's really easy to read the threads. I always have to turn a sublistnook's custom css off if they try to do too much to the comments

73

GrijzePilion Jan 25, 2017 +7

Let the redesign not be one that's "minimalist" and "refreshing", but rather just mess around with the colours a bit, change some fonts, add a bit of shading, and it'll be fine. Like when Google changed their 1999 logo by ever so slightly tweaking the colors, the shading, and getting rid of the drop shadow. And when they then 3 years later changed their 2010 logo by making it flat.

7

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +6

[deleted]

6

inquisiturient Jan 25, 2017 +377

It's messy, cluttered, and perfect for people with attention issues. It's a beautiful chaos.

377

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +258

[deleted]

258

t3hcoolness Jan 25, 2017 +53

Nothing says web design like whitespace and Helvetica Neue Light!

53

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +139

Given the god awful performance mess that is what you're turned the mobile site into (1.1MB of minified javascript....seriously?!?) please don't touch the desktop version.

139

M0dusPwnens Jan 25, 2017 +82

All web developers know that the true secret to modernizing a website is adding a few thousand more lines of JavaScript. Bonus points for every framework or massive library you add just to use one or two functions

82

reseph Jan 25, 2017 +122

So... the day of the desktop rewrite I guess we're all going back to Digg.

122

coredumperror Jan 25, 2017 +400

Why did the mobile site's functionality suddenly invade my iPad? I was very happy with browsing Listnook with the desktop site on here, but now I get the mobile site, which I hate. How can I go back to the desktop site? EDIT: Looks like this was a bug, and the admins have fixed it. Yay!

400

internetmallcop Jan 25, 2017 +116

This was an issue we discovered when launched [unified URLs](https://www.listnook.com/r/changelog/comments/5i030r/listnook_change_mobile_links_migrating_to/) and began to [sunset the m. URL](https://www.listnook.com/r/changelog/comments/5okzbi/listnook_change_redirecting_mlistnookcom_to/). We pushed a fix for iOS tablets this morning so your iPad should be able to [access the desktop site again](https://i.redd.it/a7xmc3frn52x.gif). Edit: Since there are a handful of replies with users experiencing the same issue... If you are intermittently seeing the mobile web site (most commonly on the homepage or r/all) after you have opted to see the desktop site, please try refreshing the page. This should fix the r/all issue. If that doesn't work and you're still having difficulties seeing the desktop site, please reply back here.

116

RadomilKucharski Jan 25, 2017 +28

thank you for the fix. Sure we must be crazy using the desktop site on mobile devices but for me its the only way. I browse the desktop site on an old iphone3 with iOS 5.1.1. love that It loads fast. its simple and shows so many threads rather then lots of big colourful buttons.

28

internetmallcop Jan 25, 2017 +22

I can't take the credit, I didn't push the fix :) That's actually pretty common. A lot of mods prefer desktop view on mobile so they have the ability to moderate on the go, which is why we're [building out tools](https://www.listnook.com/r/changelog/comments/5pxvlg/mod_tools_on_mobile_web_approveremovespam/) for them. Some people just prefer more content on their screen when browsing.

22

StealthGhost Jan 25, 2017 +13

So I have to redo this every time I click /r/all for some reason. Clicking on sublistnooks keeps it desktop, just all

13

thruawaynuz1109 Jan 25, 2017 +17

This. Within three minutes I've found out 1. Clicking the Desktop View menu option doesn't even give me the desktop view, just reloads the mobile view. 2. In the now forced mobile view, I can't even expand comments, which basically means I can't view listnook on iPad. Edit: Seemed to be fixed for a moment, then went right back to the issues I noted above. Also 3. Search doesn't work in mobile (gets no results when desktop gets plenty).

17

spez Jan 25, 2017 +230

Probably because we merged www.listnook.com and m.listnook.com. Click the menu and choose Desktop Site to go back.

230

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +90

[deleted]

90

OmnesVidentes Jan 25, 2017 +137

I've also just asked about this. I'm choosing desktop site from the menu and then when I navigate elsewhere its forcing me back to mobile.

137

Mako_chan Jan 25, 2017 +38

Same here. Getting booted back to mobile version every time I click a new link. Also on my iPad. Wish there was something I could do in account settings to keep that from happening.

38

wting Jan 26, 2017 +39

Replying top level to address all related tablet and mobile web issues: If you have explicitly chosen to see the desktop site from a mobile device, this override will still be respected. Mobile / tablet users who prefer the desktop site can still set an override by following this [gif](https://i.redd.it/a7xmc3frn52x.gif). Likewise, mobile users can clear that following these [actions](https://i.redd.it/5jsusn8l79ix.gif). If you are intermittently seeing the mobile web site (most commonly on the homepage), please try refreshing the page. If you're still having difficulties seeing the desktop site, please reply back here.

39

scottishdrunkard Jan 25, 2017 +51

F***! The mobile version is fucmin' shite! Now every morning when I get to check up on Listnook I'll have to turn off the shite mode. The reason Mobile mode is so shit, is because it's not only arranged differently, it also lacks a majority of the features important towards my using Listnook.

51

voidecho Jan 25, 2017 +10

Can you please make it so once you choose desktop on an iPad it's permanent? Edit: This appears to fix the issue. https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/5q4qmg/out_with_2016_in_with_2017/dcwouoi/

10

snorlz Jan 25, 2017 +503

For the desktop site, can you just buy and integrate RES? thats really all we need.

503

spez Jan 25, 2017 +523

u/andytuba is one of the maintainers, and is happily (I think?) employed here

523

therealadyjewel Jan 25, 2017 +803

The food continues to be delicious, the benefits superb, the office friends and culture pretty great (although we need to revive boardgame nights), and the work itself still intriguing and exciting. It's pretty fun to be hacking on listnook _from the inside_.

803

dmoneyyyyy Jan 25, 2017 +370

It always helps when we get fried chicken at board game nights. Fried chicken brings the people together.

370

koleye Jan 25, 2017 +342

Hello coworkers. I am also an employee of Listnook. What is your administrator password again? Haha, I forget.

342

Droyk Jan 25, 2017 +131

I think he is saying that you guys should just integrate RES into listnook. I get it andytuba is one of the maintainers but RES is an extension for listnook why don't you guys just make RES+listnook into a one single thing.

131

aladyjewel Jan 25, 2017 +87

RES has a bunch of great features which would be great to share with the general userbase. That said, some features aren't fit for everybody or would need lots of changes to integrate better within listnook. Since RES runs on a very different codebase/framework than Listnook, the code would need to be rewritten anyway.. so we'll probably see features which contains germs of ideas from RES. I'd love to see many popular features from extensions built into Listnook itself, so RES/toolbox/etc. can focus on power-usery super-customize aspects. cc /u/snorlz

87

snorlz Jan 25, 2017 +26

Thats fair, I was mostly thinking about the most obvious/basic features of RES that even non-power users want and you guys advertise. I cant see anyone NOT wanting things like in-line images, neverending listnook, user tagging, and account switcher.

26

gavin19 Jan 25, 2017 +13

Expandos (especially in comments) are still useful for vids (or sites that listnook doesn't cover), but I prefer extensions like Imagus that allow viewing on hover. AFAIK, the way listnook sources the expandos (embedly?) means that it likely won't ever cover the smaller sites that RES does though. NER would be good all around, especially since apps already have that natively. User tagging is pretty niche, and has some strings attached. First, you have the issue with storage. Users will expect their tags to be available wherever they log in, so those will need to be synced/updated. Probably not a huge deal, but it makes it a little trickier. It would mean that the normal localstorage limits of browsers could be bypassed however, which would help the heavier users. The tagger has always been a bit controversial since it has been used in the past as a pseudo-blocklist. Huge banks of tags with names of users that have posted in contentious sublistnooks can be imported en masse, leading to bias against these users, justified or not. Provided listnook can prevent bulk additions, it won't be a thing. There are also the usual minor kinks, such as 'encouraging' karma-whoring from people posting stuff like, 'I have you tagged as Houston Horse Humper lol', and users being confused about whether they can see others' tags, and vice versa. I can't recall ever getting numbers for the account switcher but anecdotally it's pretty much power-user territory. Maybe listnook could also spruce it up a little to allow for simultaneous logins so you could have different accounts open in separate tabs, if that's even feasible. Also, the ability to have additional accounts that would be associated with your main one, then you could have a 'post as ___' dropdown on submission forms (like you can with emails) so you wouldn't need to switch accounts in the first place. My favourite feature has always been the live preview. Hands down. Maybe because I use a lot of code/code blocks, so I need to see that I have indented sufficiently etc, but it has saved me innumerable ninja edits. That would be a relatively painless addition.

13

RiceOnTheRun Jan 25, 2017 +771

New website? I feel like the current Listnook UI is so iconic I don't even know how else I'd picutre it

771

spez Jan 25, 2017 +573

I'd like the new version to feel like a Rolls Royce: it feels classic, but is actually modern. The current version is more like a Chevy Vega.

573

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +150

Is there another example of this "Rolls Royce" that already exists, or something similar to it? Just trying to picture how it could change.

150

spez Jan 25, 2017 +807

Not a ton, but I'm thinking [something like this](http://digg.com/).

807

syd430 Jan 25, 2017 +200

I've never heard of this site. Thanks for sharing it, I've been browsing it for hours now and no longer need to visit listnook.

200

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +74

Oh...well, that will probably just end up looking like [this.](http://www.404errorpages.com/images/image003.png)

74

therealnordle Jan 25, 2017 +10

Please don't do this, it's just going to end up looking like all the other sites out there and that's a shit ton of whitespace. Listnook's UI is *Listnook's* UI, this is what's made Voat so popular so fast, because they jumped on your band wagon. An old saying comes to mind, if it ain't broken don't fix it.

10

cggreene2 Jan 25, 2017 +4323

Please remember why the current listnook site is the way it is. It is functional not pretty. If making it look good comes at thr expense of making the site more difficult to navigate, do not do it!

4323

johnny5ive Jan 25, 2017 +876

Seriously this. I can't stand other sites after using listnook. I don't need tags and avatars like every website is 1999 geocities. I like listnook because of it's signal-to-noise ration of actual useful information. I don't turn on any stylesheets in other subs because i like them all minimalist. It's perfect.

876

elsjpq Jan 25, 2017 +94

Same. I find most sublistnook styles to be atrocious. Lots of them have weird fonts, huge margins, and ugly colors, so I have all styles turned off. I find even the default style to be too large, so I've added my own modifications in Stylish: the font size is turned down, margins, padding, and line spacing, are reduced. My page currently looks something like [this](http://imgur.com/a/a40iz). It's not pretty, but I find it much easier use, which is much more important. I can skim things much faster because I don't have to scroll as much, and I can keep more of an entire thread within view at once.

94

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +80

Hey admins, it's been an eventful and rocky year but we came out okay. So thanks for keeping us afloat. Will you guys work more on the image/gif hosting side of listnook? For example, some gifs are so raw that it takes forever to download. And the urls, oh god, they go on for miles.

80

spez Jan 25, 2017 +84

> Will you guys work more on the image/gif hosting side of listnook? For example, some gifs are so raw that it takes forever to download. And the urls, oh god, they go on for miles. Yep!

84

AkashicRecorder Jan 25, 2017 +137

Hey Steve, I wanted to ask, if the name is *R*eddit now with a capitalized R. Is the word spelt Sub*r*eddit or Sub*R*eddit? Anyway, here's to a drama free 2017.

137

Drunken_Economist Jan 25, 2017 +324

They'll have to pry my lowercase `r` from from my cold, dead hands

324

RunHanRun Jan 25, 2017 +287

Can we get "sort by rising" in the iOS app? I need to view Listnook in as many different ways possible during my work bathroom trips.

287

spez Jan 25, 2017 +149

Perhaps, but one of the things we'd like to achieve with a new frontpage algo is to no longer require new and rising. The goal would be for every post to get enough view to have a fair chance. e: "no longer require" doesn't mean "eliminate"

149

Beetin Jan 25, 2017 +173

But spam browsing "rising" is the best and most effective way to properly comment w****.... How are users like myself going to game the system by quickly making broad, overdone jokes and fluffy observations on new but well-liked posts that are possibly headed for the front page..... What's next, are you going to make us actually try to communicate with others in a non-vapid manner and use listnook to explore new things and keep in touch with our interests and hobbies? Listnook 1.0 forever... In all honestly though new, rising and top serve completly different purposes, at least for me. Top lets me see really important news and stories that everyone is interested in, as well as the hottest memes so I can stay up to date with this garbage culture. Rising lets me see very diverse interesting content, most of which won't and shouldn't make the front page. It's the "potentially interesting but not worth cluttering the front page with yet". New remind me why people are awful and should rarely be given a platform to speak.

173

Bardfinn Jan 25, 2017 +18

>/new reminds me why people are awful and should rarely be given a platform to speak Knights of /r/new, saddle up!

18

ItinerantSoldier Jan 25, 2017 +81

Does that mean that I might randomly see a few new posts at the top of my front page in NuListnook? If so, that sounds like something I wouldn't want for every sublistnook I'm subbed to. There's quite a few that are notorious shitpost providers that get filtered by the mods.

81

7Seyo7 Jan 25, 2017 +25

That sounds terrible IMO. New and rising are the best ways to find otherwise "buried" content. For example, in /r/GlobalOffensive the frontpage is almost always filled with twitch clips and memes so browsing /new is an easy way to find more meaty discussion threads.

25

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +56

So, you're going the Facebook route? No way to see what I want to see, I can only see what you'll give me? Every post you've made about the redesign has been horrifying.

56

canipaybycheck Jan 25, 2017 +76

>is to no longer require new and rising. Well that phrasing kind of scares the shit out of me as a mod

76

flaim Jan 25, 2017 +15

> Well that phrasing kind of scares the shit out of me as a mod Same, but not even as a mod, as a user. That sounds like a drastic change. Pls no digg2.0, /u/spez.

15

mrpopenfresh Jan 25, 2017 +145

Spez, do you think the world is doomed? How can I prepare for the impending disasters? Should I buy gold????

145

Schott12521 Jan 25, 2017 +61

workable sort entertain air quiet profit quicksand melodic bike reply *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev/home)*

61

spez Jan 25, 2017 +73

Not really just yet, but we won't sneak it up on you. There will be a lot of testing.

73

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +84

So we know the Geek Squad gets $$ working as FBI Informants.. WHAT ARE YOU GETTING SPAZ???

84

tikotanabi Jan 25, 2017 +540

The admins of Listnook did a great job of pushing out updates in 2016 that benefit the community. Thanks for the hard work you guys have put in and thanks for listening to the feedback and suggestions many of us have given you.

540

cleantoe Jan 25, 2017 +95

I hear [you're preparing for the apocalypse](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-for-the-super-rich). But what about Listnook? What are your plans to make sure Listnook stays up and running during these next 4 years?

95

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +219

[deleted]

219

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +201

What do you guys think of the mods that use a bot to detect when a user posts on a sub they don't like and then bans them from their own sub when most of the time that user hasn't broken any rules in their sub or even participated in it?

201

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +111

[deleted]

111

maybesaydie Jan 25, 2017 +257

I've seen a rise in doxxing and witch hunting on this site. Any plans to address that?

257

reseph Jan 25, 2017 +365

A rewrite of the desktop site is scary. Why? Because the new apps and new mobile design are all wrong. They are pushing design over functionality. We've lost so much functionality (including most mod tools) in the new designs, as well as speed. The new mobile site [is just so slow](https://youtu.be/XXPZig3LXuE). The new modmail is much slower than the original as well. The devs are open to feedback as we've seen, but clearly the end product is... how we have it today. Bulky. Slow. Lacking features. For example, in the mobile app there is no way to view sublistnook rules. You have no idea how frustrated I am as a moderator to hear this. You say 40% are using the new app; this means 40% of listnook don't know about sublistnook rules, and this just forces the quality of a community to spiral downwards (and increases workload on mods). Functionality and responsiveness needs to come *first* ahead of design. Also: don't fix what isn't broken. I've already signed up to your link, but I generally feel like the devs just don't listen: https://www.listnook.com/r/listnookmobile/comments/4f4yuo/as_a_moderator_the_app_is_missing_a_few_critical/ (9 months ago) I've been using listnook desktop for 8+ years now. It's quick. It's responsive. I guess this is going to change. Let me request this: Keep an option for the original design, forever. We need it.

365

[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +18

> Let me request this: Keep an option for the original design, forever. As a software industry employee, this is not a reasonable request. Ultimately, Listnook will move on to another codebase. Forcing them to also maintain a now deprecated codebase practically doubles the work. What happens when something in the original design breaks? What if they roll out a great new feature that helps filter out spam or other bad behavior, should users using "classic" Listnook have to suffer the c***? Every software company releases new versions of a product and the vast majority of them doesn't ask for feedback datum one from their userbase - they just do it. At least Listnook is offering a transparent process to move us from current to new. But you can bet that Facebook isn't letting you fling cows at your friends anymore even if you could in 2008. The feature went away, never to return, and that's for the good of all.

18

AllisonRages Jan 25, 2017 +90

> the apps are fastest and best way to browse Listnook. If you haven’t given them a try yet, you should definitely take them for a spin. Not to be a bad egg, but it's actually really difficult to use compared to "Listnook is Fun". That's why even before you guys shut down the function to view Listnook on a mobile browser, I used a mobile browser because the app doesn't function correctly anyway. I just would rather have the website on my phone than app version, just maybe easier to click buttons and read stuff. > One project I would like to preview is a rewrite of the desktop website. It is a long time coming. The desktop website has not meaningfully changed in many years; it is not particularly welcoming to new users (or old for that matter); For this possible huge update, do you think you could maybe for people that aren't used to coding websites give them guidelines when creating their own sublistnooks? Like basic things like formatting pictures and editing the theme?

90

MajorParadox Jan 25, 2017 +24

Great summary! It's amazing all these things happened this year. It feels like longer. On the mobile apps side, maybe you can help address a few outstanding issues that seem to be getting ignored: 1. We don't have mod tools, but I can't for the life of me figure out why the share menus don't have an option to open a post or comment into the browser. Not only are all the mod actions available there already, opening in a browser is so helpful in other ways too. Ever see someone say "sorry can't do that cause I'm on mobile." I feel most of that stems from being locked in one place on the app. If you could open a browser tab, you can go find what you need, and easily return where you were to continue the conversation. 2. Formatting issues since day one have never been fixed. Listnook markdown shows things like ^ and *, \ , etc. (at least on the iPhone version). This is especially concerning because users assume it's the author or the sub who messed it up when it's a problem on the app they use. 3. Links don't work correctly. I pointed out a [bug](https://www.listnook.com/r/listnookmobile/comments/54itl7/links_to_the_wiki_without_the_full_url_dont_load/) where shorthand links (like /r/...) don't load (or even crash the Android version) and as far I know, nobody even looked at it. Also, shortlinks (like https://redd.it...) load in a popup browser where the user isn't logged in and can't participate. Again this reflects badly on the author or sub because the mobile user just thinks we're giving them bad links. 4. When users report a post or comment, the default selection is about threatening or harassing. It took us a while to figure out why we were getting so many false reports about it. Also, they don't even display the sub-defined report reasons from about/rules. The latter is understandable, because there's lots to do, but the former just sounds like it causes confusion for everyone. Thanks! :)

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WizardryAwaits Jan 26, 2017 +13

6500 comments, so I guess nobody will ever see this. But just in case you are there /u/spez, please can you remove the limits of how many sublistnooks you can exclude from /r/all/. I use this feature to remove p*** sublistnooks, but very quickly I reached the limit. All of these made it to my /r/all at some point in the past few weeks and I blocked them, but now there are more p*** sublistnooks appearing, and it won't let me add more: * /r/adorableporn * /r/altgonewild * /r/Amateur * /r/a*** * /r/AsianHotties * /r/AsiansGoneWild * /r/ass * /r/a****** * /r/assholegonewild * /r/asstastic * /r/aww * /r/BigBoobsGW * /r/BiggerThanYouThought * /r/bimbofetish * /r/Boobies * /r/burstingout * /r/BustyPetite * /r/b******* * /r/celebnsfw * /r/Celebs * /r/collegesluts * /r/cumfetish * /r/cumsluts * /r/curvy * /r/datgap * /r/ecchi * /r/FestivalSluts * /r/fitgirls * /r/freeuse * /r/funsized * /r/gentlemanboners * /r/gettingherselfoff * /r/ginger * /r/GirlsFinishingTheJob * /r/girlsinyogapants * /r/GirlswithGlasses * /r/GoneErotic * /r/GoneMild * /r/gonewild30plus * /r/gonewildcolor * /r/gonewildcurvy * /r/GoneWildScrubs * /r/GoneWildTube * /r/GWCouples * /r/gwcumsluts * /r/GWNerdy * /r/HappyEmbarrassedGirls * /r/hardbodies * /r/h***** * /r/HighResNSFW * /r/holdthemoan * /r/homemadexxx * /r/Hotchickswithtattoos * /r/Innie * /r/juicyasians * /r/LabiaGW * /r/LegalTeens * /r/legendarylootz * /r/LipsThatGrip * /r/m*** * /r/nipslip * /r/normalnudes * /r/nsfw * /r/NSFW_GIF * /r/nsfw_gifs * /r/NSFW_HTML5 * /r/NSFW_Japan * /r/nsfwcosplay * /r/nsfwhardcore * /r/OldSchoolCoolNSFW * /r/OnOff * /r/palegirls * /r/pawg * /r/pelfie * /r/PetiteGoneWild * /r/porninfifteenseconds * /r/PrettyGirls * /r/p**** * /r/quiver * /r/randomsexiness * /r/realasians * /r/RealGirls * /r/rearpussy * /r/redheads * /r/rule34 * /r/scrandle * /r/SexyFrex * /r/shittyfoodporn * /r/shorthairedhotties * /r/Stacked * /r/StraightGirlsPlaying * /r/suctiondildos * /r/thick * /r/tightdresses * /r/TinyTits * /r/TittyDrop * /r/WatchItForThePlot * /r/wifesharing * /r/workgonewild * /r/xsmallgirls I don't want to exclude all NSFW content, because most of it is fine - I don't care if someone swears or is wearing a bikini. But obviously I don't want to be looking at a big c*** in a woman's ass at work. And also, I don't want to look at p*** all the time anyway. If I'm not masturbating I don't want to see it, even if I'm at home browing listnook alone. But p*** seems to show up on /r/all more than anything else, more than /r/The_Donald ever did, and it's spread between hundreds of sublistnooks. What's the point of the filter then? Can't we make p*** sublistnooks tagged as such and exclude them (but separately from "NSFW" which is a very loose term and used far too sensitively). There needs to be more fine-grained control. /r/all has so much p***.

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[deleted] Jan 25, 2017 +42

[deleted]

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Raezak_Am Jan 25, 2017 +63

As somebody who still sticks with desktop, even on mobile, how are you planning on changing it? ^^*please* ^^*don't* ^^*mess* ^^*it* ^^*up* Edit: Shit. [Now mobile site is forced](https://www.listnook.com/r/changelog/comments/5okzbi/listnook_change_redirecting_mlistnookcom_to/) even when you choose desktop site, making users need to request desktop through the site *every time it is opened*. I stuck with it through all the fatpeoplehate/Ellen Pao debacles, but forcing that awful interface will definitely make me seek alternatives.

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swohio Jan 25, 2017 +14

Bet it's lots of dead space and oversized buttons. Gotta make EVERYTHING designed around ipads these days.

14

Raezak_Am Jan 25, 2017 +12

It is and it's horrible. I'm even on a tablet! I've been using desktop version on my tablet for the last two years. Some websites have excellent mobile interface, not listnook. Their desktop site is way better even when I have to zoom in and out all the time. It sucks that people have been told minimalism is everything, so now they're applying it to information... don't make my text-heavy website minimal! I want to read! They forced use of mobile as of today (listnook.com shows m.listnook.com) so I switched browsers and am now adblocking until I see a change.

12

amethyst_lover Jan 25, 2017 +81

I happen to like the desktop version and use it on my Android tablet because it is both personally aesthetically pleasing and easier on my eyes. Currently, *without any warning or recourse*, I'm having links going to the mobile version (although there is no m in the address to indicate it). If I've set my options to desktop, can it please be consistently applied? I won't touch the app until it's at full desktop functionality, including seeing the sidebars.

81

ptd163 Jan 25, 2017 +29

> the apps are fastest and best way to browse Listnook I'm pretty sure ListnookIsFun and RES users beg to differ. > One project I would like to preview is a rewrite of the desktop website. Not again. Please. Every time you guys f*** with website it makes the experience worse. This is by no means an exhaustive list: * First it was removing vote counters that let people know controversial a comment or post actually was. * Then it was changing the "hotness" algorithm that's causing 18 hour old posts to still be on the frontpage (or first few pages). * Then it was the "decaying hotness" algorithm that made way more NSFW content show up on r/all. * After that it was opt-**out** link tracking and paid ads masquerading as legitimate posts. **Where does it end /u/spez?**

29

CaptainCummings Jan 25, 2017 +22

As you have probably noticed, there's a pretty good split between people who like the desktop site now as is, and people who want shiny shit. Do us all a favor, and include a legacy option? Even if this requires recreating the front end with the new design, lots of us prefer the minimalist style of today. Making an effort to replicate that, in any form, would be very nice even if it isn't the default.

22

bwaredapenguin Jan 25, 2017 +21

When you roll out the new UI, will you implement a classic or legacy option for those that will end up preferring old the one? I refuse to use the official Listnook app because I hate the UI (and it's missing like half the site's functionality), but absolutely love RiF because you can make it look and behave pretty much identical to desktop.

21

G19Gen3 Jan 25, 2017 +11

This keeps falling on deaf ears but I'm going to try again. Please. PLEASE. Fix the official Listnook app on iOS. When you post quotes (greater than sign) it shows up with the & gt line instead of quoting appropriately. You edit your comment, save, and it looks fine. Similarly, backslashes always show up. So [backslash]# at the beginning of the line doesn't just show a #, it shows a backslash and the hash mark. Alien Blue displayed all of this properly years before your app came out, yet the in-house app can't do it correctly? Come on.

11

Hazzman Jan 25, 2017 +37

When will Listnook take an official stance or at least recognize the issue of government (be it domestic or foreign) and corporate astroturfing? I understand the sophisticated nature of these programs and I understand how difficult it is to actually do something about this problem but there are things Listnook can do to at least highlight the problem and create official tips on what to watch for. A r/Bitcoin user created a wonderful step by step sheet that provided a list of behaviours and activities to be aware of which was extremely useful (if someone could remember where it was that would be awesome). The risk is creating a witch hunt... but at least making an official recognition of the problem... even saying "Yes, we recognize it's a problem" is better than utterly ignoring it. It represents not only a threat to the "front page of the internet" but it presents a threat to constructive, free discourse online.

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megamoviecritic Jan 25, 2017 +30

Why am I being forced to use the mobile site on my tablet? Even if i select desktop site, whenever I click home or back to the front page I get directed back onto the mobile site. Do not like this.

30

ctharvey Jan 25, 2017 +73

You say you're proud of the mobile apps but on Android the app is pretty worthless with comments never loading in for the most part and using the mobile site is pretty dreadful as well.

73

wdr1 Jan 25, 2017 +20

> In the wake of Spezgiving, we increased actions taken against individual bad actors by nine times. /u/spez did you lose ability to modify the database after Spezgiving? It seemed strange for a CEO to have that access, but you mentioned it was a holdover from your prior stint (which makes sense). Given your current role no longer requires it, as well as what you described yourself as a abuse of that access, is there a reason for you to retain it?

20

wickedplayer494 Jan 25, 2017 +57

>One project I would like to preview is a rewrite of the desktop website. >it is not particularly welcoming to new users (or old for that matter) *gulp*

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your_favorite_human Jan 25, 2017 +12

Why am I suddenly forced to use the god awful mobile version all of a sudden? It was fine a couple minutes ago. It might be more conveniant for just browsing the front page but it's garbage for managing your messanges etc. Now it's just as bad as the f****** app. Well at least it's not as slow as the shitty app that won't even load comments most of the time.

12

Cockwombles Jan 25, 2017 +18

Why has my iPad reset to this disgusting version of listnook? I would like to use the desktop version but it keeps setting on something else and I can't stop it resetting. Every time I click on the listnook icon it goes to the beta or mobile version, it's horrible. The mobile version is bad enough on my phone that you can't go back the the thread you posted on directly, you can only look at the context. Please stop doing this and forcing people to change. Edit, it's fine now. :D

18

QuarkTheFerengi Jan 25, 2017 +22

Whatever you do, please allow for listnook 'classic' on the desktop website after you change it(unless its really similar that is). Been using this site for damn near 10 years now and I like the design how it is now. I turn off all CSS and I just really like the default view, with nightmode on.

22

DubTeeDub Jan 25, 2017 +213

Why is /r/altright not quarantined at minimum? They are a racist neo-nazi forum that constantly posts hatespeech, harrassment, calls to violence, witch-hunts and doxxing campaigns. This seems to fall under the basic guidelines as laid out that should at minimum qualify the sub for quarantining. Just yesterday they had a post at the top of their page crowd-funding a doxxing campaign. https://np.listnook.com/r/altright/comments/5pkwf9/expose_the_antifa_who_sucker_punched_richard/ Why is /r/altright not quarantined, if not outright banned?

213

Pesto_Enthusiast Jan 25, 2017 +5

The sublistnooks /r/Overwatch and /r/CompetitiveOverwatch have a great way to minimize comments. Instead of a [+] and [-], the whole left edge is a bar that you can click to minimize or expand comments. It's fantastic, especially when I view Listnook in desktop view on my phone. Can we make that site-wide? It's intuitive, looks classy, is easy to use, and makes the site more friendly to people with poor motor control (or with tiny screens).

5

Yurilovescats Jan 25, 2017 +27

Please stop trying to force me onto a mobile app, especially when I'm on a tablet.

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scottishdrunkard Jan 25, 2017 +6

I have a question to the Listnook team. Did you update the site so that mobile users, such as those on iPad, are forced onto the Mobile Website? Because I was off listnook for three hours, and when I came back and went onto listnook, everything was mobile-y

6

Out with 2016, in with 2017

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