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For Sale Apr 24, 2026 at 8:11 PM

Prosecutors used rap lyrics to help send a man to death row in Texas. It's not an uncommon tactic

Posted by gamersecret2


Prosecutors used rap lyrics to help send a man to death row in Texas. It's not an uncommon tactic
AP News
Prosecutors used rap lyrics to help send a man to death row in Texas. It's not an uncommon tactic
Attorneys for a Black man scheduled to be executed in Texas say the introduction of rap lyrics he wrote biased an almost all-white jury when they decided to sentence him to death.

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Old-Finance1815 22 hr ago +56
I killed Darnell, yeah I shot him with my nine. Shot him nine times, nine PM on the dime. And by the way it was November ninth!
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a_rabid_anti_dentite 20 hr ago +9
Wait I thought that guy had an alibi. Wasn't he at Red Lobster???
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Old-Finance1815 20 hr ago +13
He had an alibi, birthday, Red Lobster.  When in reality he shot Darnell like a mobster!
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[deleted] 21 hr ago +2
[deleted]
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TheHytekShow 17 hr ago +1
November*
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user11711 23 hr ago +68
So literally the Key and Peele skit?
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appleparkfive 19 hr ago +26
That sketch didn't come from thin air. It's been a long held discussion in the hip hop world
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Impossible_Leg_2787 17 hr ago +12
Rap stitches knishes?
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user11711 19 hr ago +1
Touché I’m well aware it’s just the first thing that popped into my head lol.
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fhota1 19 hr ago +12
No. Dude wrote lyrics about gangster shit that we have no evidence he ever actually did any of and was not at all related to the crime he was accused of and then the prosecution used it as character evidence to secure the death penalty. Its more like if that Key and Peele skit got used to try to get a harsher punishment for Key or Peele
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Savings-Eggplant5912 23 hr ago +39
Public Enemy:These simple lines be good for your health To keep them crime rhymes on the shelf
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ukuleles1337 20 hr ago +7
*dusts the ancient texts* "publiic enemy once decreed"
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NoFuel1197 23 hr ago +12
I find it darkly humorous to imagine all the conspicuous Google searches that are used in convictions are taken completely out of a wider search context. >"How to get away with murder?" >"Deals on packs of crows" >"How to get away with killing" >"How to get away with killing creepers without losing house" >"What to do with body parts" >"Cleaning up blood" >"Severed finger" >"Hospitals near me"
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DStew713 19 hr ago +11
“How to cook people” “How to cook for people” “How to cook forty people” “How to cook for forty people”
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haringtiti 12 hr ago +2
*The joy of cooking Milhouse*
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bb_kelly77 21 hr ago +4
Oh look it's my search history as a writer
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WrittenFever 21 hr ago +18
For those that didn't click in: > In 2022, The New York Times’ Jaeah Lee looked for non-rap examples of lyrics used at trial from 1950 onward and found only four. Three cases were thrown out and one led to a conviction that was overturned. In that same time period, Nielson found roughly 700 examples of rap lyrics used in court cases, including lyrics that someone rapped but didn’t even write. > > Another study conducted by University of Nevada assistant professor Adam Dunbar examined stereotypes of rap. He presented people with lyrics, saying they were from rap, country or metal music. When it came to rap, respondents overwhelmingly considered the lyrics to be autobiographical. > > “But if they’re given the same lyrics and told that those are country or heavy metal lyrics, they say, ‘No, it’s just art,’” said J.M. Harper, director of “As We Speak.” The crux of the article is that other forms of media are considered artistic and typically not considered admissible in court when a person is tried for a crime, however, rap is the one outlier where this does not hold true, showing a clear bias that disproportionately affects primarily young Black men and most likely leads to outcomes like life imprisonment or death row.
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Lawd_Fawkwad 20 hr ago +12
Chicken and egg really. Let's not mince word, a lot of gangsters rap on the side. 21 Savage, NBA Youngboy, Bobby Schmurda, Tupac, Ice Cube, and Kevin Gates are all examples of famous rappers who have been arrested for doing the things they sing about. I won't deny that there is a racialized element, but there aren't many country singers being arrested for drug trafficking with multiple songs about their clandestine meth labs. Lyrics aren't securing convictions, but in cases where the defendant is a criminal who happens to sing about crime, yeah, they're seen as autobiographical and tied to existing cases at times.
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WrittenFever 20 hr ago -4
It's about prejudicial evidence, not about whether or not they should be charged with crimes, but whether or not specific things should be admitted at trial. If A can't be admitted, but B can, and the only difference is that B is most common among a specific racial, ethnic, religious, or other cultural group, that is a bias that needs to be addressed. It's really that simple.
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Fuckerofmothers64 13 hr ago +3
But the massive difference is that artist B is commiting crimes. Often. The music is very much associated with criminal activity. The other genres don't have that tied in so it doesnt seem fair. Rappers would benefit the most over that stuff not being admissable whereas it would barely effect the other genres at all.
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WrittenFever 6 hr ago +1
No, the difference is that rappers are perceived to be committing more crimes. Yet drugs, r***, sex trafficking are common issues in the music industry, regardless of the genre of music. We are hearing more and more stories unveiled about it from artists of the past and the present. Also *once again* we are not talking about the person on trial, we are talking about the admission of evidence. When lyrics are being used to determine a person's character, that is an issue. We are not referring to lyrics that describe the crime for which they are being tried, we are describing lyrics that have *nothing* to do with the crime, but are brought before the jury as a reason to determine whether someone deserves to live or die, deserves a life sentence, or even is capable of committing a crime (in the absence of other evidence). Once again, these are *artistic expression* and not *autobiographical*. The act of using rap lyrics against a particular group of people is prejudicial, unequal, and unfair within a system that is supposed to be equitable and non-prejudicial.
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Secret-Put-4525 20 hr ago +5
Maybe because rap music was linked to gang life?
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AlexandersWonder 8 hr ago +3
The Rat Pack had considerable links to gang life, with their leader Frank Sinatra even being described as a messenger for the mafia. So it’s not exactly as though musicians being linked to gang life is a phenomenon that somehow unique to rap music.
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WrittenFever 20 hr ago -5
No it wasn't and no it isn't. Rap had a history before gangster rap—a subgenre of rap—came into existence. This is why this bias needs to be addressed, because it's very clear that a lot of people unfamiliar with this type of music have subconscious biases that they aren't even aware of, and which can't be dealt with during a court case.
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Secret-Put-4525 20 hr ago +8
Yeah. I saw that black and white video of a guy basically rapping. But you can't deny the biggest rap influences in the past 30 years were gangster. Talking about shooting, drugs and unfortunate treatment of women.
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AlexandersWonder 8 hr ago +2
On the other hand, some of the most violent and disgusting lyrics I’ve ever read in my life were produced by metal bands who aren’t subjected to the same perceptions and connotations as rap artists despite their overtly vile lyricism tendencies. At the same time, there’s artists like Frank Sinatra who put out wonderfully wholesome music, and yet were infamously in-deep with the mafia. I think it’s hard to ignore the possibility that at least some of the disparity in the average perceptions of death metal artist and average perception of rap artists come down to differences in the racial demographics these genres are most often associated with.
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DStew713 19 hr ago +1
I’d bet there’s just as many rock songs about f****** underaged girls as there are rap songs with “unfortunate treatment of women.”
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WrittenFever 19 hr ago
I know you and I are not going to get on the same page at this point. I disagree on your views regarding the relationship between rap and gangsters, violence, and misogyny. Like any other genre of music, it has its complexities, but those are often overlooked in favor of criticizing small portions of the music. Of course, *all of that* is irrelevant to the issue at hand which is: **Biases within the criminal justice system.** If other artists have the luxury of not having their art used against them in court, I believe the same thing should be applied to young people that write rap lyrics as a way of expressing themselves, whether or not rap has ties to gangs. It is exactly the same as a teenager or young adult (of any race) writing poetry or song lyrics. The fact that one of the few avenues that are available for self-expression to this young men can be used to destroy their lives is abhorrent, and only adds to the burdens of people living in poverty that have limited access to outlets for creativity. The majority of the cases they are citing aren't famous rappers, they are just regular people, writing lyrics that get caught up in criminal activity. Some of them could be innocent, but because they wrote lyrics which were admitted when they *should not* have been (based on precedent of other art being inadmissable), their lives are now ruined. Just because people hate rap and/or rappers, doesn't mean we get to treat them with biases. The criminal justice system is supposed to be equitable, but this behavior proves that it is not.
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Tibbaryllis2 17 hr ago +3
I always find this discussion interesting from a thought experiment. There are genuine subgenres of several different types of music that are specifically about crimes or are a chicken/egg issue with influencing crime or being influenced by crime. Gangster rap is obviously the biggest example in the US, but you also have narcocorridos, murder ballads, outlaw country, death metal/grind core, etc. I think it’s really interesting when you look at cases like the one currently playing out with D4vd where it really looks like his song Romantic Homicide may be non-fiction. Lately I’ve been really curious how, if he’s found guilty, California’s slayer laws interact with their Decriminalizing Artistic Expression Act. I’m not saying I disagree with you or that either side of the debate is right or wrong. It’s just an interesting line to walk. Edit: one of the aspects I find interesting about the discussion is trying to apply it to other professions. For example, if someone was boxer or MMA fighter and committed violent acts, that’s probably going be to used against them. Or military/police when they’re held accountable. Or someone in finance/banking that commits financial crimes. It’s not quite the same, but feels related, and that makes it a little hard to reconcile because only one of the above is a first amendment issue as an art form.
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FarAd2857 18 hr ago +3
Surely tweets can be used then right?
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jbahill75 21 hr ago +3
Do you see the perpetrator? Yeah I’m right here
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Blkoutsiderx 20 hr ago +2
F*** around, get the whole label sent up for years
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Significant_Cow4765 22 hr ago +6
Texas prosecutors and Jim "Dr Death" Grigson used a Led Zeppelin poster and tat to argue that Cameron Todd Willingham would reoffend and Grigson could tell with "100 percent certainty." Willingham was executed for a crime he did not commit.
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Banned_and_Boujee 22 hr ago +8
Yeah, and if Johnny Cash really had shot a man in Reno just to watch him die, they would have used his lyrics against him too. That’s one weak ass race card. They need to throw that back and draw again.
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dakilazical_253 21 hr ago +7
I love how on the Live From Folsom Prison album one of the inmates lets out a loud cheer right after Cash sings this line
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Pheighthe 21 hr ago +4
It’s exciting to find out you’re not the worst guy in the room. Or, maybe he never met someone who shared his particular hobby?
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RSquared 7 hr ago +1
Those cheers were added in post. The actual prisoners were afraid of the guards and stayed silent during the performance.
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DStew713 19 hr ago +1
One of? There’s a whole damn cheering section.
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dakilazical_253 18 hr ago +3
Yeah but there one dude you can distinctly hear over the others. Always cracks me up
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fhota1 18 hr ago
Except thats not the equivalent situation here. The equivalent situation would be if during any of Johnny Cash's trials for drug possession, the prosecution had brought up that lyric as evidence that clearly he had actually murdered someone and didnt show any remorse over it and therefore should receive as harsh a penalty as the judge could give. For some reason, probably because it would be a f****** insane thing to do, none of them ever did that and the worst he ever got was a suspended sentence and fines. Nobody is arguing that direct confessions shouldnt be allowed just because theyre in song form. If someone sings or raps a detailed account of how they murdered someone who was found murdered in that specific way, sure thats evidence absolutely bring that up in court. The idea that you can use someones lyrics as evidence of their general character is much more contentious though. Johnny Cash most likely didnt actually shoot a man in Reno and we have 0 evidence he did so him singing he did should have no relevance in a courtroom. Likewise unless they have relevance to the case at hand, I dont see any reason rap lyrics should be brought up either
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CauliflowerPlane2971 22 hr ago +5
shit article tries to say using rap lyrics someone wrote is prejudice but won't publish what the lyrics were that led to him being sentenced to death row. infers that an all white jury is somehow incapable of determining the validity of those lyrics to the trial. if dude rapped about intent before hand or bragged about it post then it is what it is.
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RevelArchitect 20 hr ago +5
“Hogtie ’em and body bag ‘em. Send them to the mayor. Then /I bombed the whole country. Send/the press. The paper.” Nothing lyrical presented to the jury appears to be related to the crime and was instead intended to “establish his violent nature”. I mean, he was arrested along with his cousin a few hours later and the crime was not planned out. They got high on PCP and fucked up robbing somebody. He, in fact, did not bomb the whole country. Meanwhile, his cousin has confessed to being the shooter, which is corroborated with DNA evidence on the weapon. His cousin is not facing the death penalty.
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DianneNettix 23 hr ago +2
I don't actually care about your opinion about the death penalty on a personal level. You can think the state's monopoly on violence should extend that far and I could say I shouldn't, but that isn't the fundamental question. The fundamental question is how many innocent people are you willing to see executed? And if the number is above zero then you've got me dead to rights. "Yeah, sometimes we put the needle in the wrong person but it's very important everyone knows the needle is there" is a def3nsible position. But I'm gonna need to hear that defense from yoir own lips if I'm gonna take you seriously.
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No_Use_9652 22 hr ago +23
Who the f*** are you arguing with?
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joeypappaluchi 22 hr ago +8
Lmao my thoughts exactly.
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DianneNettix 22 hr ago -6
People who support the death penalty. Try to keep up.
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No_Use_9652 22 hr ago +7
You’re the one arguing with an empty room. Don’t talk like I’m the idiot here love
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Ok-Tax-8165 21 hr ago -1
He's bringing up a topic of conversation in a public forum 🫪
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Poku115 22 hr ago -6
How many innocent people are you willing to put to life on prison? Heck even not getting jail but being publicly accused will ruin lives and even lead to suicide, should we get rid of the whole system then?
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joet889 21 hr ago +6
This is so incredibly simple. Life in prison means still alive, which means they can be freed. If they're dead they can't be.
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Poku115 21 hr ago -7
Not gonna acknowledge the not even getting im jail and suicide part? Not even gonna acknowledge how people wrongly imprisoned suffer in there? Some of them prefering an easy way out? Or thet fact that their lives after getting out of jail are gonna me miserably low quality because of the lost time and prejudice? i guess being alive to suffer is better to you all
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joet889 21 hr ago +6
Yeah, it's better because there's the opportunity to change the situation. If they're dead you can't change the situation. This is the craziest justification for the death penalty I've ever heard.
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King_SalineIV 18 hr ago -1
You can’t change the situation that they have already been falsely imprisoned. That is in the past and immutable. You can’t add years to someone’s life after they’re wrongfully incarcerated.
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joet889 18 hr ago +2
Might as well kill 'em! Along with the disabled and the mentally ill, amirite?
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King_SalineIV 16 hr ago
Like those kinds of people can’t be incarcerated? There’s really nothing you can say about execution that you can’t also say about incarceration, it’s just a matter of degree.
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joet889 7 hr ago +1
There's one thing you can say - people who are incarcerated aren't dead.
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Poku115 21 hr ago
Better for who? Your conscience?
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joet889 21 hr ago +6
Better for the person who might want to continue living. Wtf is wrong with you?
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DianneNettix 21 hr ago +6
You can let an innocent person out. It's terrible, but it's remediable.
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Poku115 21 hr ago -3
Yeah they only lost their lives, their reputation is probably irreparably damage, have a gap on their resume imposible to excuse positively, have been removed from society for so long they could possibly not even fit back in.
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DianneNettix 21 hr ago +4
So why bother? Let's just kill them because that's the nice thing to do?
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Poku115 21 hr ago -2
Im just going by your logic on innocent people getting caught up🤷‍♀️
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CountVanillula 21 hr ago +3
This is maybe the dumbest “slippery slope” argument I’ve ever heard. “If we get rid of the death penalty, we’ll have to get rid of all the other punishments as well!” No we won’t, calm down.
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Poku115 21 hr ago -1
By op comment logic we would. As its about preventing an innocent person getting the wrong consequences.
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CountVanillula 20 hr ago +5
No it’s not, it’s about innocent people being executed, not unfairly punished.
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EitherAnimal4104 17 hr ago +3
>The criminalization and the targeting of hip-hop has been going on for all 50 years of the culture,” said Nielson, who noted the use of rap lyrics in court ramped up in the early 1990s That's a culture issue. It's f****** stupid to pretend rap isn't continually filled with bad actors and that the two upstanding gentlemen on death row didn't murder two people
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Automatic_Brain7664 7 hr ago +1
Pretty much any written fictional art form can be used in the same case now.
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PowerfulForce_ 19 hr ago +1
not for nothing but rappers like tayk or guero10k quite literally were rapping about their crimes and pretty much painting exactly what happened and where, and happily claiming they and their gangs were responsible. not uncommon at all either for rappers. granted this case sounds different, i’m just saying in general there’s examples where lyrics truly incriminate you
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PartyOrdinary1733 9 hr ago +1
What I don't get with rap, if you're committing a crime, why the f*** would you tell on yourself in your song? To me, it's not a flex, it's a special kind of stupid.
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da_boopy_day 23 hr ago
So pro tip: Don’t commit crimes and then rap about them in a song.
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AlexandersWonder 7 hr ago +1
The article writes on the possibility that in some cases they may not have done so at all. The lyrics may, in some cases, have nothing to do with the crime in which they’ve been accused. Instead they’ve featured lyrical depictions of criminal behavior in the trial as a sort of testimony regarding the personal character of the accused individual. Since lot of music is just outright fictional, with lyrics that reflect very little on the actual life of the person who wrote them, this brings up ethical questions about the use of lyrics to demonstrate that someone is a criminal just because they wrote a song about criminal behavior. It’s not like Johnny Cash really shot a man in Reno to watch him die, or that Slayer ever actually made it “rain blood.” So there are legitimate concerns about where the line is drawn. I think a genuine 1:1 lyrical description of a murder that just so happens to match all the evidence is very probably indicative of guilt or at least of inside knowledge of a crime, but can prosecutors really treat it more or less the same as they would treat a sworn confession made knowingly by a someone who has sworn an oath to tell the truth? And what if the lyrics are just about murder more broadly, but contain no specific details that can be tied to the crime they’re accused of? Would it be ok for a prosecutor to suggest that somebody could be a murderer simply because they’ve written something that features depictions of murder? Ultimately I think this highlights the importance of hard evidence in proving someone’s guilt in a crime. I think that if a prosecutor needs to lean too heavily on some song lyrics to prove a connection between a crime and the person accused of it, then perhaps they never really had a very strong case to begin with. If they had evidence that could really firmly place a person at the scene of a crime at the exact time it occurred, then some lyrics they wrote at any point before or after it occurred would really just be added fluff for the jury, anyways. If their entire case hinges on some song lyrics to prove the accused person’s guilt, then I think there may be some room for reasonable doubts.
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