TWZ’s article includes some more sources. They are generally quite reliable on defense issues. https://www.twz.com/news-features/f-15e-weapon-systems-officer-shot-down-over-iran-has-been-rescued
150
[deleted]6 days ago
+75
[removed]
75
Informal_Process22386 days ago
+48
Oh wow
48
zeolus1235 days ago
+206
Can't wait for the Netflix movie where we learn bombing Iran made that pilot really sad.
206
Sufficient_Fig_48876 days ago
+812
I don’t support anything about this war, but I’m really glad to hear this.
812
_uckt_6 days ago
+91
Someone had to fire the missile that hit that school, people are loading the bombs onto planes that are being precision guided into civilian targets. The US President and the head of the War Department are explicitly talking about the war crimes they are committing and ordering that those crimes continue and escalate.
Joining the military to get an education, to lift yourself out of poverty, I understand these things. But we are in the ‘I was just following orders’ phase now. That isn’t an excuse, you cannot be part of the machine killing children and civilians, bombing their water and power supplies, blowing up their bridges and homes. You can’t be in that machine and claim innocence, especially when all of your leaders, everyone above you, is so nakedly criminal and evil.
91
RobutNotRobot6 days ago
+101
Trump said he will explicitly target so-called 'dual use' infrastructure tomorrow. But let's be serious, it's almost entirely civilian infrastructure.
The atrocities continue, and the US military dutifully carry them out.
101
Ok-Mastodon24206 days ago
-53
Support the soldiers, not the mission
-53
jenny_9055 days ago
+107
You said that in Iraq and it turns out the soldiers were sadistic fucks who tortured innocents.
107
ImApigeon6 days ago
+87
Oh, should we support Russian soldiers in Ukraine as well?
“But I was just following orders” hasn’t been a valid defense against war crimes since Nuremberg.
87
SoloWingPixy886 days ago
+103
Mmmmmm.....not sure about that one.
103
pecan766 days ago
+373
What about when they bomb a girls school killing everyone inside? Asking for a friend
373
Mjr36 days ago
+107
Support the tribunals
107
Plaineswalker6 days ago
+95
It's probably best for your soul to not support either.
95
Chaos-Cortex5 days ago
+18
You can only cherry pick specific soldiers and missions , “only good happen, nothing bad happen - DJT”
18
[deleted]6 days ago
-3
[removed]
-3
Fallouttgrrl6 days ago
+131
After the debacle about fishing vessels getting double tapped for no survivors, I really don't care what they choose to believe about their targets TBH
They are not protecting America, they are protecting Trump
131
[deleted]6 days ago
+19
[removed]
19
Spire_Citron6 days ago
+30
The defense is that they don't need a defense. They wanted to kill those people, so they did. They don't even have to prove that they were actually drug traffickers. The idea of this administration at war scares me because you see the kind of shit they pull on their own citizens right out in the open where everyone can see. What will they do when there are no consequences and they can claim national security to keep everything hidden?
30
Fallouttgrrl6 days ago
+14
And continue removing officers who disagree with them...
14
JayB3926 days ago
+4
Tbf war crimes are part of the US army since the 60s, maybe longer
4
Fallouttgrrl6 days ago
+3
Certainly longer, lol
Honestly the question is "do war crimes committed before the modern use of the term count" more than "how far back we talkin'"
Don't get me wrong: other countries have done horrific shit
I have family members who's Arabic skills were used to translate the atrocities the Syrian military were doing against rebels just to think of one situation
But given the size of our military and our claim to be a global force for good, it's bullshit to think that a review of the chain of events that led to a bombing of a school in the middle east or double tapping civilians in the Caribbean will hinder our national defense
If as much of my tax dollars are going to the military instead of Medicare as they are, I'm owed an explanation or at least an investigation into how that occurred
I pay enough to think that I am owed a certain ability to sleep at night, and if my tax dollars are going to bombing schools, at least that amount needs to be going towards checking why something labeled as a school for children in Google Maps was targeted by precision munitions
By being a US citizen, a portion of ever hour I work went to murdering more schoolgirls than I want to think about, and I f****** want an accounting for that mistake
3
raised_by_toonami6 days ago
+82
“Just following orders”.
82
bugabooandtwo6 days ago
+22
Are you suggesting it's ok for them to be in Iran at all?
22
move_machine6 days ago
+2
It's their job to know if they're committing a war crime or not, and no one bothered to double check what the computer told them to bomb.
2
Gackey5 days ago
+2
Do I think they were briefed and had full knowledge that they were launching unprovoked and illegal attacks on a sovereign nation that had a high probability to murder innocent civilians? Absolutely.
2
Sufficient_Fig_48876 days ago
-47
The pilots execute the orders, they had a target they were told was a military target, they trust the orders.
They were not told it was a school.
-47
bugabooandtwo6 days ago
+18
Except the entire operation here is wrong.
18
Old_Belt71276 days ago
+125
I'm in no way a "f*** the troops" type of person but couldn't we apply the same logic of "just following orders" to Russian soldiers, or even the Wehrmacht in ww2
125
Mantergeistmann6 days ago
+35
It's probably closer to that time a US submarine torpedoed a Japanese ship... that happened to be carrying a bunch of US PoWs.
35
gdmaria6 days ago
+29
Or a bunch of schoolkids evacuating from a warzone. (Tsushima Maru, 1944)
29
Illustrious_Ice_45876 days ago
+2
If you're morally consistent then duh. Especially today's soldiers in modern times right now.
2
DateMasamusubi6 days ago
+21
If the pilot was aware that he was attacking a civilian target, then that would be a crime. Attacking a stadium filled with football fans? Obviously a crime. Attacking a building inside a base? Based on their available info, they were carrying out orders.
The Wehrmacht/SS were personally gunning down civilians, women and children. Those 2 examples cannot be compared.
21
HoightyToighty6 days ago
+15
> Those 2 examples cannot be compared.
On the contrary, I think it's effective that you did just that. People have to know the scale/severity of what they discuss, one way or the other.
Also, there has to be an understanding about the significance of intent. For example, a campaign *to exterminate* (e.g., Holocaust, Rwanda, Darfur) is clearly worse than another campaign whose intent is not to exterminate.
The fact that intent matters is, of course, non-controversial from a legal perspective.
15
Absalom986 days ago
+10
Clearly you don't know anything about American soldiers during the Gulf War and Vietnam War. Committing unprovoked war crimes was their daily bread and butter. Tons of content you can watch if you don't believe me. Murdering and raping innocent women and children was fun for them and their favorite pastime.
There's no difference between them, except that one is being ordered by a country the West considers good and the other isn't. Apply your logic to Russian soldiers and listen to how insane you sound...
10
Polar_Beach6 days ago
+3
But they were told that the civilians were (insert x reason). Soldiers should be held accountable for their actions.
3
Ligalotz6 days ago
+12
I do agree with your sentiment but the person youre replying to is trying to say that the pilot has no way of knowing what they were doing was bombing a school, when the Wehrmacht were committing boots on the ground atrocities every day. Obviously bombing a f****** school is the most evil thing I can imagine but I agree with the other person that the pilot absolutely thought they were hitting a military target. These guys are people too, they don’t want to bomb schools.
12
Bonezone4205 days ago
+20
I don't want to bomb schools so I didn't join the military. You sign up for what you sign up for, dawg.
20
blogoman6 days ago
+6
>These guys are people too, they don’t want to bomb schools.
So unfortunately we don't know if they do or don't want to bomb schools. I'm sure a lot of the military don't, but unfortunately there are a decent number who do. They are people, and people are capable of doing really terrible shit.
6
Defiant-Goose-1016 days ago
+4
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If the Wehrmacht is told “shell that school, there’s Americans hiding in it” and then do and *then* learn that it’s actually just a bunch of French schoolchildren, yes, just following orders applies. The problem becomes when you do something you *know* is blatantly illegal, such as knowing that the school is full of children and no enemy soldiers and shelling it anyway, and try to avoid consequences by saying you were just following orders.
4
The_Real_C_House6 days ago
+6
Sure but there’s a line in there somewhere. Fact is dropping a bomb from a mile up trusting the target is what they say it is vs. running a concentration camp on the ground is going to be different at the end of the day. Not like we’re talking about Abu Ghraib here
6
Turbo__Sanwich6 days ago
No. Lick the boots and like it. The soldiers didn't know they were going to murder people when they went through training to learn to murder people.
Nothing tastes better to a freedom loving American than boots
0
Absalom986 days ago
+37
"The soldiers were just following orders." We're playing all the greatest hits from Nuremberg I see...
37
HandleSensitive84036 days ago
+8
I mean it worked for most of the nazis unfortunately
8
Redtube_Guy6 days ago
+13
“Oh sorry my bad.” - pilot who killed 150 school girls.
13
Vandirac5 days ago
+2
So, "just following orders" ?
Worked like a charm for Eichmann.
2
YetAnotherBoi6 days ago
+4
Same as Nazi’s, they too ~~followed~~ executed orders.
Edit: wording
4
Spire_Citron6 days ago
+4
They should stop trusting what this administration tells them.
4
[deleted]6 days ago
+4
[removed]
4
Creepy_Accountant9466 days ago
Who said they didn't know lmao so naive
0
morbihann6 days ago
+17
This is insane statrment.
17
yace9876 days ago
+42
Sorry but they chose to accept the mission. They bear responsibility. If all the soldiers quit then there would be no Iran war
42
[deleted]6 days ago
+46
[removed]
46
spacejunk4446 days ago
+35
Yeah I can’t believe the Americans on here. They sound just like Russians.
35
AlbatrossNew36336 days ago
+19
And these very same people justifying the US army were calling Russian soldiers war criminals for obeying Putin's orders lol
It's incredible how that's apparent to the entire world except for a huge chunk of US population
19
The_InHuman6 days ago
+11
Yes, it's also difficult for me to imagine they genuinely think their soldiers have ever protected their homeland by dropping bombs on poor countries located more than 10000km away. I wonder if IDF soldiers also get a pass to murder civilians because they're just little beans following evil Netanyahu's orders.
It's terrifying to read that shit after I've seen countless posts in the past 4 years frequently and confidently calling Russians a "nation of serfs" for not fragging enough commanders and their low attendance at protests (in a country where you're likely to be jailed for a decade for protesting).
Meanwhile in the face of fascism Americans are only considering attending protests on weekends because they don't want to disturb and inconvenience their employers.
Now who are the cattle?
11
[deleted]6 days ago
+45
[removed]
45
Best-Hovercraft-54946 days ago
+17
no thanks
17
Noloxy6 days ago
+16
support the wehrmacht not the mission
16
Fallouttgrrl6 days ago
+34
No, I don't need to do that either.
I come from a military family, my siblings and parents all served
I love them, but they volunteered for a job where they will be used as pawns for our leaders, do not actually make us safer, and are such a massive drain on our economy that we don't have child care, health care, social safety nets
Every member of my family who enlisted did it midway through college because it was better to be taken care of by the military than to go into the private sector
And being "support our soldiers!" Is leading young men and women from high school into the military
I do not wish members of our military harm
I am thrilled these people were rescued alive
But "supporting our troops" leads to mass death around the world and justifies a military industrial complex that is heavily contributing to the death spiral of our entire planet.
We could be a nation of Artemis fans and instead we're watching death and destruction on the global stage
I support our veterans, and I'll go to the ropes for their health and care
But our military is a lie sold to vulnerable communities to advance the plans of a few billionaires. I'd rather our military quit en-mass than watch America continue its empire building
34
[deleted]6 days ago
+17
[removed]
17
ButIDigr3ss6 days ago
+24
Lol he was literally there to bomb civilians. F*** that guy
24
QuinedQualia6 days ago
+19
We are so, so far beyond that. It might have held up during much of the US war on Afghanistan and Iraq post 9/11, but killing and being killed for Israel?
19
JuneButIHateSummer6 days ago
+25
F*** the troops, they're fighting for Trump.
25
__Yakovlev__6 days ago
+33
They're doing f****** fly bys for kiddie rock and fightings hegseths "holy war".
33
Mundane-Effective1336 days ago
+14
Why would I support a bunch of murderers tho
14
_The_Farting_Baboon_6 days ago
+8
Soldiers are during the killing as well WTF? Just because they aint giving the orders they still follow them.
8
__Yakovlev__6 days ago
+6
Are we now back to also supporting the Russian soldiers then?
6
BananaPeel546 days ago
+13
Every person who joins the US Military, does it knowing that they're joining the largest terrorist organisation on the planet. They know they're joining an organisation that has fought a single 'good war' (WW2), where the rest of them have been wars of aggression, primarily targeting civilians.
Getting a fast food job, or becoming a prostitute is the more moral option to escape poverty.
13
flippingisfun5 days ago
+8
Don’t support the missions support the murder, got it.
8
ScrewAttackThis6 days ago
+6
Man, I feel 20 again
6
RedTulkas6 days ago
+4
You say the same about Russians?
4
TRx1xx6 days ago
+4
Support soldiers doing what, destabilising countries, killing civilians? They are not “fighting for our freedom”. They are fighting to make our real enemy (the 0.1%) more money.
4
call-lee-free6 days ago
+6
You should read about the Mahmudiyah r*** and murders. I'm glad this soldier was rescued but this whole "support the soldiers, not the mission" thing is quite overdone when soldiers can equally be diabolical and heinous in times of war.
6
HooleyDoooley5 days ago
+4
F*** the troops
4
themightywurm6 days ago
+1
the soldiers complete the mission of killing civilians
1
Positive-Road39036 days ago
+1
support the regime, not the mission
1
HirsuteHacker6 days ago
+2
Nah, don't support imperialism or people willingly acting as tools of imperialism. These are the same people pulling the trigger on civilians and blowing up schools.
2
Lonewolfali6 days ago
+3
They went to kill people's. Pfftt
3
NomadFH6 days ago
+196
I sure wish I knew what the mission objective was for this war
196
2PlyXtraSoft6 days ago
+105
Distract from the Epstein files, of course!
105
To-Far-Away-Times6 days ago
+27
If Trump’s war starts getting any worse they may need to distract us from the war with the Epstein Files.
27
Teantis6 days ago
+15
The admin operates on videogame logic and thinks if you kill the Big Bad that you win. So they never have a plan beyond that. It's like an even more arrogant and ignorant version of the post Iraq war "they'll greet us as liberators no need to plan much beyond that" assumption.
15
NomadFH6 days ago
+4
A part of me suspected that we're basically just keeping Iran busy so they can't stop Israel from taking Lebanese territory (as they are doing right now with almost zero news coverage). This thing kind of happened when Syria was toppled and Israel annexed vast amounts of Syrian territory, too.
4
Jehooveremover6 days ago
+24
The same as it always is... Slaughter the innocent to steal their resources, while tricking taxpayers into paying for it.
24
nightimestars5 days ago
+2
Just terrorist things and protecting the Epstein administration
2
Wonderful-Process7926 days ago
+201
This is amazing. After being missing that long I thought he was a goner.
201
BrucesTripToMars6 days ago
+119
Given SERE training, im not sure 1 day is "that long". He clearly used what he was taught.
119
Bluefalcon3256 days ago
+89
I’m 100% sure he’s being debriefed right now, and a major portion of that is to determine what training worked, and how to shift future SERE instruction.
89
Prestigious_Load16996 days ago
+176
New York Times is reporting that the pilot climbed up a 7,000 foot mountain ridge and holed up.
He periodically turned on his transmitter to avoid detection by Iran. All he has on him was a pistol.
The US found his location about 24 hours ago, and waited until nighttime to enact this insanely-daring rescue mission.
The American military remains the best-trained military force in history.
Astonishing.
176
mnstorm6 days ago
+46
This is really badass. I oppose this unprovoked war of invasion/aggression but I equally wish for the safety of all soldiers on all sides in this war. Hope there is regime change as well, for all countries involved!
46
mrlolloran5 days ago
+9
I read a book about a pilot who went down during the Yugoslavia war and was out for 3 days iirc before rescue.
If people weren’t looking for him it would have been easy (by comparison)
I also learned a lot about what drains a battery. Guy was like Steinbeck when he described using a radio.
9
Vinura6 days ago
+57
Never doubt the Kenyan Times.
57
msr42day6 days ago
+17
They read X and reported what they found, JSOC providing info to influencer Murphy, a former Green Beret operator and book producer. Keeping the info quiet until a Press Officer releases it respects the families of the rescued and the Chain of command and the time it takes info to flow from one place to another. Presence on the web is more important than respect and national security...shame, shame.
17
Diligent_Source_29886 days ago
+2
Does Kenyan times have a movie suggestions section
2
042376x5 days ago
+5
Yes. Their Top Suggestion is "The Lying King: Grab them by the P****".
5
NickelPlatedEmperor6 days ago
+48
Good thing it was a rural area.
48
WhyIsItAlwaysADP6 days ago
+42
Amazon has already secured the rights to the movie.
42
Fallouttgrrl6 days ago
+7
Falls under the code of "you break it, we buy it" dibs after everything going on with AWS out there
7
Lets_Kick_Some_Ice6 days ago
+214
I'm not even relieved, just angry that these pilots were even in this fake af "war" to begin with. This is all so stupid.
214
NeverEndingCoralMaze6 days ago
+61
You can be angry and relieved at the same time.
61
aquagardener6 days ago
+39
2 many emotion hard.
39
Fallouttgrrl6 days ago
+9
Why use many emotion when one do trick
9
TucuReborn6 days ago
+1
As per usual, nuance is dead these days. As if the idea of conflicted emotions is some foreign idea...
1
RedHeadedSicilian526 days ago
+35
I mean, I’m certainly thankful he’s alive.
35
bass2486 days ago
+7
Most people in the American military actually vote Republican.
7
ifupred6 days ago
-3
The epstien cover up war is worth it to conservatives
-3
Winstonsphobia6 days ago
+144
I’m glad the airman was saved. Now get the Hell out of Iran and the Persian Gulf, and defund Israel.
144
cloudheadz6 days ago
+19
Does Owen Wilson have another one in him?
19
[deleted]6 days ago
+146
[removed]
146
RedTulkas6 days ago
+38
Russians dieing in Ukraine= Orcs/RuZZians. Haha
US soldiers in Iran = glad they are alive, why do you dare not treat them with empathy
38
NimbusHex6 days ago
+56
The broken heart award on this post is f****** disgusting.
56
Mundane-Effective1336 days ago
+2
We know you guys care more about the life of one soldier who went there to murder people than the lives of the schoolgirls you killed, there's no need to rubber it on our face at every occasion
2
blac_sheep906 days ago
+16
Shouldn't have been there in the first place
16
[deleted]5 days ago
+12
[removed]
12
Jestersfriend6 days ago
+8
So the first news site that reported this was a Kenya site. THEY WERE RIGHT???
8
goro-n6 days ago
+7
Glad he's safe. Shouldn't have been there in the first place.
7
Adrian4lyf6 days ago
+7
I hate everything about this war, but I have to admit their doctrine, I guess, of "no man left behind" is commendable.
7
ShelbiStone6 days ago
+13
Leave no one behind. I'm so happy to hear that they're alive and rescued. I was starting to feel certain that they didn't make it. I'm very happy they're alright and out of harms way.
13
Nkosi8686 days ago
+6
“The CIA first launched a deception campaign inside Iran, saying U.S. forces had already found the airman alive and were moving him on the ground to remove him from the country, the official said.”
I wonder how often they use this tactic on US civilians. A reporter should ask this question tomorrow. They won’t.
6
msr42day6 days ago
+36
Misinformation and disinformation is usual practice to deceive any watchers/info collectors. It's part of the Fog of War. The basics of psychological/cognitive work are not new/recently developed - whether in politics, marketing, con-artistry, or warfare.
36
JustaRandoonreddit6 days ago
+6
Yeah no, if I'm the press secretary and if I'm being asked that question even if we have never done it I'm saying no comment.
6
Ok_Recording816 days ago
+12
Good. Glad he is safe
12
peder567896 days ago
-4
Some people are reading this with rage since you've already been down voted 😭🙏
-4
blogoman6 days ago
+3
So we don't need to kill a bunch of civilians, right?
3
sfg-16 days ago
+80
What do you think he was there for?
80
Plaineswalker6 days ago
+29
Surely he was just dropping aid packages, right?
29
Wise-Promise-41586 days ago
+4
Good for him. Hate this illegal war but bring all our soldiers back home
4
[deleted]6 days ago
+1
[deleted]
1
the4thwave6 days ago
+28
100% worth it to get them out.
0% worth it for this all to happen in the first place.
28
Astrochimp466 days ago
+14
The US blew up 2 of their own planes in the rescue operation
14
fivespeed6 days ago
+6
yeah so about that... looks like SF blew up a c130 that got stuck in the sand during extraction to deny the enemy a perfectly good plane...
6
fivespeed6 days ago
+5
might want to add that to the list
5
Redhawke136 days ago
+1
Do you by chance have a link to where you saw about that? I can't find anything about that when I just looked
1
TBoneUs6 days ago
+5
TWZ’s article includes some sources. They are generally quite reliable on defense issues. https://www.twz.com/news-features/f-15e-weapon-systems-officer-shot-down-over-iran-has-been-rescued
5
chrisprattdid9116 days ago
+2
Glad to see, let’s end this all now too
2
IndominusTaco6 days ago
+5
they're going to make a movie about this in 5 years aren't they
5
RedDirtNurse6 days ago
+9
I want Shane Gillis to play Trump in that movie.
9
peepdabidness6 days ago
+3
Top gun 2 had this
3
Ocean-of-Mirrors6 days ago
+3
Thank f*** CAN WE LEAVE NOW? WE ARE LEAVING NOW, RIGHT?
3
HowAmIHere20006 days ago
-12
This is an Easter miracle. God bless him and his family.
-12
JimHeckdiver6 days ago
-7
But not all the innocent people he was helping to bomb? Be serious. We're the bad guys here.
-7
cake4chu6 days ago
+16
Bros in shambles they rescued a fellow American lmao
16
JimHeckdiver6 days ago
-3
On the contrary. Im glad he was rescued. I object to religion being used to justify it, but to ignore that innocent people are being killed by the US.
Maybe a better miracle would've been that the war didnt happen in the first place?
-3
_fenwoods5 days ago
+2
Feels good to breathe a sigh of relief. I hope he gets to see his family soon.
145 Comments