Star Wars: Maul – Shadow Lord breathes a bit of life into a stock villain | Disney+'s animated series makes a reasonable case for its main character's return.

Ya the article is written by someone who knows next to nothing about Star Wars

Honestly he's the best part of Phantom Menace 

As in most people.

He WAS just a stock villain until the supplementry material fleshed him out.

Is he even a “stock” villain jn that?

THAT was the sequel trilogy Lucas planned?! Disney are FOOLS

That's the original story, not who is expected to confront him in this? Correct? Given that Luke is a kid. Are we expecting Vader to hunt them?

Oh, they brought back Darth Talon from the EU?

It definitely seems inspired by that. I think it’s unlikely that it will go in that direction though

Darth Talon was Darth Krayt's apprentice last time I checked. Lucas and Filoni robbing from EU as usual!😂

People don’t read beyond the headline here. They get pissy and judgmental instead.

Yah, I get that ultimately star wars is supposed to be a kids movie but has an all ages appeal, but I only watched the main movies, read a couple of the books(before the sequel trilogy was a thing), and watched some of the shows. The mandalorian devolved into a "callback character of the week" show for people who were young enough to watch the clone wars cartoon(which I wasnt), and it massively nosedived for me.  Its like star wars is stuck with being the comfort food for 30-40 year old manchildren who only wants to be involved in a single era and regress to childhood. Its why I liked Andor so much. It actually *grew up* and went "wait a minute, star wars came out in the 70s, significant part of our audience is between 35-60 years old, I think they can handle the fact that the main character is introduced by walking into a brothel in a red-light district that will go over a kids head but will be immediately apparent to adults"

It’s called paste magazine cuz they paste chat gpt results into their articles

Yes they’re much more normal and watch children movies about space wizards

He wasn’t morally grey, he remained straight up evil

You realize that everyone but Ezra (the naive child) saw right through him, right? He was putting on an act to pretend he wasn't pure evil.

He was fine until he blindsided Kanan too soon. My take he should've been working with the good guys a few more episodes trying to plant in some dark side seeds on Ezra, before ultimately overeaching resulting in the fallout. This whole He overeached too quickly only to realize he needed Ezra to help him with an Holocron was a new low for his character.

I love how f****** iconic these lines are; impossible for me to read them without instantly hearing them in Witwer’s voice.

South wall…pouring beskar…

Kill the past. Bury it, if you have t-- oh wait, nevermind.

Maul is someone whose reach has always exceeded his grasp He is also caught in 4k hologram because of the start of the episode where he kills the cops after he says that line about staying in the Shadows. He's always trying to play at being Palpatine being the shadowy manipulator but hes also incredibly impatient which leads to him attracting more attention than he can deal with and then having his plans undone. This happens a few times in TCW

They directly addressed this in episode 1….a henchman asks Maul whether it would be smart for him to make such a public appearance instead of letting the henchmen handle executing the prisoner they were after, and Maul responded that he wanted to execute the prisoner personally (plus he could sense the Jedi padawan that he wanted to turn into his new apprentice)

I fear they are going to make bait and switch and focus more on the policeman and his family drama.

the red lightsabers all look the same to the plebs.

Maul isn't exactly the most clever person all the time.

I did one of the episode guides a few years ago. The first two seasons were absolutely painful (even with only watching like 50-60% of the episodes.) It definitely picks up *a lot* though around season 3 and I do see why the earlier episodes were still necessary for character development in order to appreciate the later stuff. By the end I'd argue it's some of the best star wars has to offer. Especially the final 3 episodes of the series.

It's a funny twist for me, I tried to watch Clone Wars as a kid when it first aired and couldn't get into it. Then I watched Rebels in my 20s, which seemed more fun. Of course, I latter forced myself to pick TCW back up, and actually started to get hooked *after* Maul showed up.

If you always approach watching the animated shows with the mindset of “these are just dumb shows for kids” then yes, you’ll always have a hard time enjoying them.

If Clone Wars is a kids show, then Phantom Menace was a kids movie.

Because sometimes "kid shows" have depth and meaning, just like some "adult shows" are vapid and stupid. I originally watched them because my kids were watching them. There's more depth there than many expected.

I fault nobody for not sticking with in, but there are some critically good arcs in it for all ages. That said there are some unbearably boring ones to get through too.

I’d say specific arcs can be recommended, rather than absolutely all of it. Especially with Maul.

There's plenty there to engage with, I dont even know what you're talking about. Like we're talking about Star Wars here, the movies were also for kids. Plenty of people watched the show as an adult and had a good time, so let's not be disingenuous

>why would most people bother with the animated series? Because this article is explicitly about an animated series that is a sequel show to that animated series. I do agree that much of Clone Wars and even early Rebels is off-putting to me (though that last arc of Clone Wars was actually quite good) but we're literally in a thread talking about another cartoon. Why even engage in a thread about it?

I disagree. It is a genuinely well written show with moments of depth and genius

> Hot take here probably: why would most people bother with the animated series? They're kids shows. Why would anyone watch any of the movies? They're for kids.

The issue I have with "it's a kid's show" when it comes to Star Wars is that, well, Star Wars overall is very childish. The animated shows are not all that much different than the films. The only show that is explicitly "adult" is Andor and even that has a lot of ties to the animated series to the point where I would almost cakl it a sequel to The Bad Batch.

Do you mean the animated series by genndy tartakovsky? That can be appreciated by anybody. Genndy is one of the best animation directors in the business, it is a gorgeous show and a work of art. I can’t testify to the 3D CGI series.

Honestly even in the early episodes; TCW had some of that spark. Second episode ever made is about a Jedi and 3 clones being hunted in space, and at one point they get into how the clones as generally viewed as expendable. Not super deep into it sure, but still a heavy theme for a kids show. Also some kinds shows like Gravity Falls and Steven universe, are often thought of as some of the best shows ever made.

I would honestly skip the first three seasons at this point as an adult. I know they are importsnt to the characters but it's a hard sell to an adult to sit through episodes obviously meant for kids. Honestly the final four episodes are the best star wars I've ever seen (said from Andor prob). So it's worth the buildup imo

May I ask what your opinion is on animated content in general? Just wanna make sure you're not one those clowns that says animation is immature 

[TCW is a kIdS sHoW](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX8iN6T_M_A) You know your argument is stock when people have been memeing on it for years now. >They're kids shows. And the movies are kid's movies yet you love 'em.

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When I was watching it last night it took me a minute to figure out why the backdrops looked a bit odd. They’re styled to look like oil or matte paintings! And it’s awesome to me. Matte paintings are a big part of the OG trilogy’s visual aesthetic. So I’m all for it. It also makes the planet look a little hazy, like the city is perpetually covered in smog.

I don't think anyone ever cared about what method of them being brought back to life. Life and death are already weird in Star Wars. Jedi's bodies physically vanish when they die in some cases. Their ghosts can come back through the Force and converse and influence events so dying. Padme just more or less dies of despair or the most intense and immediate case of postpartum depression. Vader is mostly machine. Greivous was mostly machine. Bacta Tanks are a thing. It's kind of just expected to roll with whatever weird reason a person dies or comes back. A character we saw get shot in the head could walk onto the screen, totally fine, and be like, "Oh, right. I died. I made a bet once with a mysterious guy once and winning it meant one extra life!" We'd just have to roll with it. It was the way they implemented it into that people hate or accept. Maul was a mysterious and powerful figure we know nothing about and apparently dies in the same movie that introduces him. He stays alive through sheer madness and willpower and machines. It's not great but it's Star Wars so whatever. Then he goes on to develop as an interesting character and find a place in the series. So, it's fine. You may roll your eyes as first but it's soon forgotten and you're moving along with the story. Palpatine had several movies to develop. He's the big bad evil guy behind it all. His defeat was symbolic as not only, "the bad guy leader is dead" but also "the evil Empire is finished" and the good guys won the fight they've been in for the whole series. It was the end of an era. Now there's a new generation of Star Wars conflict. Someone's trying to bring the Empire back. Okay, fine. There's this mysterious guy, Snoke. Alright, who is he and where did he come from? What's his goal? There's a whole galaxy of possibility here. A new era. So many things could be happening. Oh wait. Nope. Turns out it's Palpatine again. He was cloned and has been behind it all. Apparently there's only one villain with any pull in the whole galaxy. And this wasn't foreshadowed or anything. There weren't any rumors leading up to "Hmm, what's the deal with these cloning rumors? Could someone be creating a new clone army?" or "We've been tracking resources but can't figure out what they're doing or where they're going. Could someone be building a massive fleet?" "We've been looking into Snoke. There's something familiar about him. And the cloning rumors are linked to him..." Nope, Sidious is back. Has been back. There was a whole nefarious plot to bring him back, it worked, and it all happened offscreen without the slightest hint. He's just randomly announces himself in the final movie of the trilogy. He fooled us AGAIN! At least when he reveals the second Death Star is "fully operational!" there was buildup. The Rebels knew it was being built. They worked on a plan to bring it down before it was too late. It was a shock to find out it was already up and running and their plans were kinda fucked. This time, it's just "I'm back. I cannot be killed. Snoke was a literal puppet. Me the whole time, man. I have heirs and one of them is your favorite new jedi! I got these guys to rebuild my Empire. And this time, I have a whole f****** fleet of Death Stars, but now in ship form so they can zip around the galaxy!" That's what people hate. It's like playing games as a kid and someone is like, "Sorry, guys. You can't defeat me. I have invisible armor. And a secret army I've been hiding and they all have magic guns pointed at you. And infinity times infinity bullets." I know the Palpatine clone thing was a plot in the old Extended Universe books or comics. And it probably could have worked in the movies had there been any sort of seeding of that story at all. I know the last trilogy didn't really have a blueprint and that's why this happened but I would have been more open to Palpatine coming back if it had been a masterful and secret plan alluded to along the way. And maybe it could have been a situation like the second Death Star. The good guys learn that First Order are trying to create a powerful force sensitive clone body for Palpatine's force ghost to inhabit and they have to stop it at all costs. Then, we find out, TOO LATE. He's already been revived and he's slowly regaining his power. Then Snoke (who isn't a puppet clone) decides he doesn't want to give up his power and tries to untether Palpatine from SuperSith 2.0 Clone Edition so he can have the suped up clone body for himself. And Kylo has to choose to help Snoke, help Sidious, kill them both and claim the big bad position himself or help the Republic. Or something like that.

its the presentation. With Maul, it was revealed in a way that was still confusing as hell, but the scene itself was intriguing enough to get people curious to why he came back. With Palpatine, it's literally such a lazy handwave at the start, it was hard to take it seriously. Especially seeing this was semi-spoiled for months leading upto TRoS.

The main difference is that they used Maul's return to both flesh him out as a character, and use him in interesting, compelling ways. Palpatine just comes back and does the exact same shit he was doing in Return of the Jedi, just on a larger scale.

Maul is similar to Vader in this sense though. Both were defeated in battle, but through the dark side hatred and anger survived… this is pretty much precedent in the series that the dark side can help you live through extreme physical injuries. Also the lightsaber would’ve cauterized his torso while cutting it, it wouldn’t contribute much but he wouldn’t bleed out instantly.

There's a difference in quality.  Maul After his return, he had an interesting story and a much more developed character, even more so than in the books and comics that described his history before the Phantom Menace.  Palpatine, on the other hand, after returning from the dead, is a typical villain, just as he was when he died. Even in the Dark Empire comic, where he was first brought back to life in the old universe, it was still quite interesting because Kennedy's drawings were atmospheric, and Palpatine himself was made to look like someone à la Dracula.

The rich part is they dont even use the full potential of "Sith Race" Maul in his return, while with Palps he apparently had a force ability darth bane learned that lets him switch bodies.

And from the first two episodes, it doesn’t seem like this show will fill in viewers to the backstory of Maul for those who didn’t watch the other shows. At least the first episode of Boba Fett easily reminded viewers of what happened in the movies. Maul the Sith and Maul the mobster are pretty much different characters.