Starmer vows to fight on as PM despite heavy local election losses for Labour

New Zealand is about to do the same.

I mean "right wing" back then is now just a moderate

I wish I had your confidence. There are a hell of a lot of low info voters out there that just see Farage as that matey bloke down the pub talking common sense. The UK voted Boris Johnson in so....

Sunak was never voted for and lost badly as soon as he was part of an election. The conservatives got less seats than Labour no danger from them. But the amount of people I speak to who genuinely think that reform will do better is actually scary.

Ah We call them “deportations”

Cameron dragged the party well to the left which is what is killing it off. His politics were not traditional Conservative.

Just to be transparent I'm not british but close and follow politics so all of this isn't different in most other advanced democracies. if you're okay or want socialists like Green and other leftists to have more power then surely you're okay with right wing parties to push for theirs also? Also since the Greens are mostly for open borders immigration but then you're also for banning "hate speech" especially that's from the outside which seems ... inconsistent at the very least.

Now they downvote… I think these people are in for a rude awakening… Imagine thinking the previous government was “hard right” and this current government is “dull” or a “period of normality”

That’s where you’re wrong The current ruling party is Tisza, which is center-right populist and gets along quite well with Fidesz on issues like immigration.

Are they hardline anti-immigrant?

Labour supporters on the whole quite like Rayner, I think. They also loved Jeremy Corbyn. But for the wider electorate, she’s quite abrasive and unpopular to many, and has the whole personal finance c***-up history. For me, it’s about electability. Very few are on par with Andy Burnham imo.

Trans Rights and OSA would very much come under "and some I disagree with". The first was just a stupid fight to pick because any accommodation with what the right wing want is going to alienate the vocal left. The OSA was even *stupider* a technically unworkable policy that was put through (with Labour support, lets be honest) under a Conservative government but the impact wouldn't be seen until under *this* government. Classic "Something must be done, this is something, therefore it must be done". But despite all that I come back to "If not Labour then who?" and for me as someone who is center-left (can't really reduce it to one axis) who represents that best for me, Greens? Unilaterial Nuclear Disarmament rules them out and their policies are even weirder, Tories? 14 years of austerity and the country on it's f****** knees or Reform? "I took 5m from a crypto billionaire" and we stood candidates who called white women the "master race" and somehow *worse*. Seriously, What's my choice here, well meaning but somewhat inept, well meaning but seriously dangerous, not well meaning and already fucked the country or MAGA waving a Union flag.

Fully agree, he and Biden have so many similarities. Among them allowing their personsl ambitions and stubborness to pave the way for the far right.

Biden?

Can you list the ways that Starmer has been "genuinely bad at his job"? For comparison lets compare him to say Boris Johnson (I'd have said Truss but lets compare to a PM that was in office for more than 6 weeks).

It's not. Polls have immigration tied with the economy in perceived importance. Hence, you know, reform. Reform isn't surging because people think they're economic magicians.

Same thing with farage. He's the same shit as Johnson but more openly corrupt. However, like Johnson, he's a character.

That's been my view since I was a teenager and looked at voting systems. A system where 33.7% of the vote gets you 63% of the MP's is not a representative one and I don't care who got the 33.7%, the make up of parliament should more closely represent the vote share for each party, FPTP is basically the opposite of that and with competing parties that is going to get *worse* not better.

How do you suppose that would go over? Because “saving the country”, right now, looks like aggressive immigration reform to the vast majority of voters Electoral reform will look more like Labour trying to save its own skin rather than the country They’re zero chance this would be read as anything other than “changing the rules of the game when you’re losing”. There’s no clean way to reframe that either. Not at this point. Not after Labour got absolutely dumpstered

Welcome to the hyper polarised world buddy. People think like a light switch now. You're either 100% pro, or 100% against.

The far right and those susceptible to their arguments. You can't hold far right positions without being part of the far right, that's just how it works. There are no rational arguments against immigration that hold up, it's entirely racist scapegoating.

Sure, but that's like me saying "I know leftists who don't mind billionaires". You can find all sorts of people anywhere. But anti-environmentalism and climate change denial are way more common among conservative voters, and conservative politicians consistently take up anti-environmentalist policies.  I can show you data, if you'd like. And you can check the policy history of any conservative party in the western world.

I was responding to OP, who was talking about politicians, not voters.  Most people don't really have an ideology. All the conservative voters I know are mostly concerned with woke stuff and immigrants.