My parents (born in 1943 and 1945) are old enough to remember when they got the polio vaccine. They both remembered families lining up for blocks to get their children the “sugar cube”, and specifically remembered parents breaking down in tears of relief, just *sobbing*, over the fact that their kids would be saved from the horror that is polio. That people (and I’m including my own gov’t administration) are not just willing, but *gleefully* willing to regress that far, is just…demonic.
1179
couchjitsu5 days ago
+256
My aunt has had a permanent limp from polio. She was probably born around 1949
256
A_Nonny_Muse5 days ago
+123
I remember getting the sugar cube way back when I was a kid. My parents were so relieved that they had found a vaccination that was reportedly near 100% effective.
Polio is one of those diseases that was worse than death. It left people crippled for life. And not just a minor inconvenience type of crippled. Family devastating, finance draining, drag on society for life kind of crippled.
123
DissKhorse5 days ago
+32
If only the Iron Lung Fairy only visited the parents and not the children of anti-vaxxers.
32
GullibleTowel12424 days ago
+15
My grandmother was one of the lucky ones who survived polio. However, it caused her to have one leg shorter than the others. She always walked like a penguin because of it. It was not easy for her but she found a way. Wouldn’t wish this on anyone knowing what she had to go through her whole life.
15
ProjectKARYA4 days ago
+8
If anyone gives you antivaxxer lip service, you point them to the nearest cemetery and tell them to start counting the number of children's stones prior to any number of life-saving vaccinations being invented and made publicly available.
8
bluetenthousand5 days ago
+317
People quickly forget that it’s through a highly publicized and [fake vaccination drive that the US was able to locate Bin Laden.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/11/cia-fake-vaccinations-osama-bin-ladens-dna)
It’s not surprising therefore that these are looked at with mistrust in the region.
As a result it’s pretty simple: people living there aren’t going to trust vaccination efforts. And here we are.
Edits: for clarity
317
Locke23005 days ago
+49
The US Army also funded antivax campaigns to sow distrust in targeted regions and to specifically undermine Chinese efforts to vaccinate:
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-covid-propaganda/
49
RepresentativeBee6005 days ago
+5
Welp, "thread backfire."
5
bluetenthousand5 days ago
+10
That’s so messed up! Thanks for sharing! I had no idea but it’s also not surprising.
10
hostile655 days ago
+146
Real vaccines were used ,just used the used syringes to test for Bin Laden and friends DNA.
146
HYDROMORPHONE_ZONE5 days ago
+43
Used improperly. They were only given the first dose which probably makes it next to useless
43
bluetenthousand5 days ago
+34
Bingo. It wasn’t even helping people and those who got shots were under the impression they had been immunized when they had not.
34
MrGreenChile5 days ago
+55
Doesn’t change the facts on the landscape of what’s happened.
55
Synthetic_Kalkite5 days ago
What happened? People got vaccinated against polio. The alternative would have been that they didn’t.
0
bluetenthousand5 days ago
+63
Through the WHO, people had been vaccinated for many years in the region.
The big difference in this case was that the CIA was running this operation. And importantly — it was fake. The people didn’t receive any benefit from the process and perceived that they had received the hep b vaccine.
From the article:
>> The hepatitis B vaccine is usually given in three doses, the second a month after the first. But in April, ***instead of administering the second dose in Nawa Sher, the doctor returned to Abbottabad and moved the nurses on to Bilal Town, the suburb where Bin Laden lived.***
It’s been noted [that vaccine skepticism in that part of the word has spiked since the Bin Laden operation.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_in_Pakistan)
63
Fallouttgrrl5 days ago
+48
If I found out the US government was tracking people by taking their DNA after polio vaccines I'd be pretty f****** upset at the deception
48
krikit3865 days ago
+68
I would still think of it as a massive violation of trust, and would cause any other vaccination drive to come afterward to be looked at with suspicion, if they even believed it would be a vaccine at all.
68
MrsKittenHeel5 days ago
+10
Yes but the people who received the vaccines were baited into sharing their DNA and inadvertently pin pointing Bin Laden to the US, who then killed him. They were hiding him, so wouldn’t want to do that, hence being tricked into it. They probably couldn’t care less about the few dollars saved on the vaccine in hindsight
10
Arno_Dorian_115 days ago
+8
Except real vaccines weren't used in all cases lol the cia cut corners
8
swordmaiden55 days ago
+26
Don’t forget the Tuskegee experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study
26
paxrom25 days ago
+9
I don't know why the us needed to reveal the fact they used the vaccine to find Bin Laden. Destroyed people's trust in vaccines.
9
bluetenthousand5 days ago
+11
I think the Pakistani government figured it out and had an investigation into what happened.
11
Arno_Dorian_115 days ago
+9
They also didn't use proper vaccine
9
laevanay5 days ago
+19
So is that the excuse now? Killing of polio administrators have been happening before that.
19
Arno_Dorian_115 days ago
+20
Except it's statistically true that AFTER your country ran illegal ops with ineffective vaccines people stopped trusting them so gtfo of here with your bullshit
20
Secret-Sundae-18474 days ago
-1
People stopped trusting them when they already weren’t trusting them doesn’t make any f****** sense. That is bullshit.
-1
Arno_Dorian_114 days ago
+3
They were trusting them idiot how do you think CIA collected enough samples
3
Secret-Sundae-18474 days ago
-1
Are you saying now there isn’t any Pakistanis that trust vaccines? We talk about rates not absolutes you f****** dumbass
-1
bluetenthousand5 days ago
+4
It’s not an excuse if in the past there were fake vaccines provided that were used to collect your dna and track your activities, and to surveil your community.
All you didn’t even get the benefit of being vaccinated AND you are under the false impression that you have immunity to whatever false vaccine that’s being provided. There’s documented evidence post Bin Laden ops that the vaccination take up in this area took a massive hit.
4
KyZei155 days ago
+5
I read that the raid to kill bin Laden sweet polio eradication efforts back decades
5
Available_Fox43435 days ago
+8
wtf wow
8
minus_minus5 days ago
-2
No. It was a real vaccine drive. They saved the used needles to test for dna traceable to known targets.
-2
Arno_Dorian_115 days ago
+18
No it was not a proper vaccine drive don't lie
18
HYDROMORPHONE_ZONE5 days ago
+29
Yeah but they didn’t administer the vaccine correctly. They just gave the first dose and moved on to the next town to try to get Bin Laden. It takes three doses for it to be completed
29
bluetenthousand5 days ago
+21
It wasn’t a proper vaccine drive though. They gave one shot for hep B and then moved on when you need three separate shots over time to be properly immunized.
21
ToranjaNuclear5 days ago
That's...really fucked up. Wow.
0
HYDROMORPHONE_ZONE5 days ago
+14
It really is. At least finish giving the vaccines so that people gained from it
14
t3chiman4 days ago
+6
A friend was the oldest of 4 when the vaccine was announced. His mother dutifully got the kids vaccinated. But, in all the excitement, neglected to get immunized herself. She caught polio—probably from her kids—and died from the disease. His Dad remarried, had a big family, with a tragic burden.
6
Drink-my-koolaid4 days ago
+2
That's how [A Spoonful of Sugar got written!](https://www.npr.org/2021/01/08/954413533/his-vaccine-story-inspired-his-father-to-write-a-disney-classic)
2
girlnamedJane5 days ago
+3
I will never forget the people in my life who supported this filthy orange turd. They are written off as evil and irreconcilable. I will attend their funerals to know where to piss
3
Bowman_van_Oort5 days ago
-8
Ayup.
These people pissed me off so badly that, as an act of civic violence, I have taken myself off the organ donor registry and I'm never going to donate blood again.
Oh, and I'd recommend everybody else do the same. These dumb f****** "people" want to bring back polio and measles so it's kind of unethical for the rest of us to try and give them medical aid.
-8
Life-Aid-46265 days ago
+7
Idiot antivaxxers don't participate in lifesaving medical procedures, so to protest them, I don't participate in lifesaving medical procedures.
7
Bowman_van_Oort5 days ago
-2
Yep. F*** them.
-2
Life-Aid-46265 days ago
+5
Are you actually stupid or do you just not think?
5
Bowman_van_Oort5 days ago
-3
i dunno
-3
Life-Aid-46265 days ago
+3
You sound like you don't use your brain. Do better
3
Bowman_van_Oort5 days ago
+1
I dont know what you mean
1
Life-Aid-46265 days ago
+2
You dislike how antivaxxers don't participate in essential medical care.
To protest them, you don't participate in essential medical care.
You are the same as them.
Your protest is not meaningless, it is actively harmful to the cause you are trying to support.
2
Bowman_van_Oort5 days ago
Im trying to be harmful to the people who would bleed to death without the blood I so graciously donated.
0
kstargate-4255 days ago
+262
To save the click as its not in the title, it is in Hangu, Pakistan a district in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province bordering Afghanistan and they aren't sure the extremist group but most likely is the Pakistani Taliban 🤬
262
bluetenthousand5 days ago
+85
Interesting. Exactly the same region where the US used a [fake vaccine campaign to collect DNA from people so that they could track residents and find Bin Laden.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/11/cia-fake-vaccinations-osama-bin-ladens-dna)
Who would have guessed they’d have misgivings about vaccinations in that region?
85
CheezyBeanBurrito5 days ago
+36
It’s less likely that it was about vaccines since only police were killed. They likely saw them as easy targets and opened fire. If it were about the vaccines, they likely would’ve targeted the medical team too
36
bluetenthousand5 days ago
-4
Yes but why were there police e****** needed in the first place?
Usually travelling doctors going into such communities are welcomed and given the red carpet.
-4
CheezyBeanBurrito5 days ago
+4
It does not state if they are traveling doctors or if they are government officials. Given that it’s reported that they’re using door to door teams rather than fixed vaccination sites, like Afghanistan, it’s less likely to be MSF as they do not do door to door care and it is against their policy to have armed e******.
If they’re government employees then it makes far more sense for them to have armed e****** in an area where militants have targeted the Pakistan government
4
bluetenthousand4 days ago
+2
Fair. The article doesn’t really mention whether they’re medical professionals or not.
2
AudibleNod5 days ago
+190
>No group immediately claimed responsibility, but suspicion is likely to fall on the Pakistani Taliban and local militant groups, which often carry out similar attacks in the region and elsewhere. Pakistan and neighboring Afghanistan remain the only countries where polio has not been eradicated, according to the World Health Organization.
We're really rooting for you, Pakistan. Afghanistan, you need to get your shit together.
190
PurpleCoat66565 days ago
+15
Apocalypse now shit. Like a diamond bullet.
Unbelievable.
15
Mysterious_Cow_21005 days ago
+16
All the brave afghanis are dead.
16
Delulu_Lemming5 days ago
+13
The US caused this problem in part
13
bartekkenny5 days ago
-85
Stop it, the problem was always there U.S tried to help and failed/ said it’s not our problem anymore.
Damn if only Pakistan didn't shelter the Taliban and al quaeda. Then they wouldn't be in a skirmish with the Taliban now and the US wouldn't start pulling shit like this to find him.
Woe is them, failed country stays failed
-46
SESHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH5 days ago
+23
Simping for the CIA and Uncle Sam this hard is weird. That’s the same CIA that experimented on US citizens you know 😂
23
issm5 days ago
+26
This is the same CIA that gave weapons to the groups that turned into the Taliban. And it's not like they weren't doing terrorist things when the CIA was helping them out.
26
SESHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH5 days ago
+20
Yeah even better point lmao. This guy is clueless
20
CheezyBeanBurrito5 days ago
+4
The Taliban also got funding from the ISI, which makes it doubly ironic that they hate the country the funded the mujahideen against the Soviets and the country that funded senior leaders that founded the Taliban
Almost like funding guerrillas doesn’t go well
4
new_account_wh0_dis5 days ago
-22
In what way am I simping for the cia? Just saying that Pakistan made their choice and deserve no sympathy when it blew up in their face from every possible angle.
-22
SESHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH5 days ago
+18
The CIA armed the same groups you pretend Pakistan “shelters” you’re ignoring how they create all these problems and then saying oh this is pakistans fault lol. Feels like this blew up in the USA’s face way more than pakistans
18
LordSwedish5 days ago
+5
So in your opinion, the US deserved 9/11 for funding terrorist organisations right? You think it might be a shame for those people but really they deserved what was coming to them? If not, explain your logic.
5
funkiestj3 days ago
+1
your missing the point. Regardless of *Pakistan is good/bad* running a covert op where you pretend to be an *NGO worker that just wants to make the world a better place* poisons the well for the real NGO workers that want to make the world a better place (e.g. by eradicating polio).
1
Arno_Dorian_115 days ago
+5
No you stop it you liar. The CIA did f*** over the vaccine program
5
Arno_Dorian_115 days ago
-3
No you stop the deep throating. The USA has never once helped another country, only demolished it. F*** that, in an ideal world it would be your problem to fix because you caused it
-3
Arno_Dorian_115 days ago
-1
Yea its a shame the US set us back. Nice to see them also running away from vaccines tho feels very karma
-1
CheezyBeanBurrito5 days ago
+4
Pakistan sets Pakistan back.
4
er-day4 days ago
+4
The west has consistently fucked up this region. From the UK creating Pakistan out of thin air due to poorly drawn political borders with India, religious diaspora, US military occupation of their neighbors for 20 years. I’d say the west is largely at fault for this regions struggles.
4
CheezyBeanBurrito4 days ago
-2
>From the UK creating Pakistan out of thin air due to poorly drawn political borders with India
Indian Muslims wanted a separate country. They themselves made that decision.
>religious diaspora
No argument there.
>US military occupation of their neighbors for 20 years.
The US funded the Mujahideen by funneling money through Pakistan’s ISI to fight the Soviets. Afterwards, multiple Islamic countries invested in various factions to try and create a government friendly to their interests. Pakistan’s ISI funded senior members of the Mujahideen, who later the founded the Taliban, during this power grab.
9/11 happened, the US found Bin Laden in Afghanistan, he escaped to Pakistan after the US failed to capture/kill him at Tora Bora (likely on purpose), and he fled to Pakistan where he was later found (obviously).
>I’d say the west is largely at fault for this regions struggles.
Pakistan’s military having such strong influence in their national politics is largely to blame for their struggles.
-2
Arno_Dorian_115 days ago
+4
American involvement set us back in multiple occasions
4
CheezyBeanBurrito5 days ago
-3
Pakistan consistently funding and harboring terror groups is the reason for 99% of Pakistan’s foreign policy issues.
-3
Arno_Dorian_114 days ago
+6
America buying our idiotic politicans in why i could care less about your people dying in school shootings. Enjoy
6
Rosalind_Whirlwind5 days ago
+17
My grandma was a paraplegic starting in her thirties from polio. Children four through six were after she was confined to a wheelchair.
My grandfather absolutely knew what he was doing, as a large animal veterinarian, specializing in genetics and breeding. She couldn’t leave him because she was crippled. She outlived him, but she only got peace once she was quite elderly.
17
eucalyptusmacrocarpa4 days ago
+3
That's a disturbing tale
3
Rosalind_Whirlwind4 days ago
+3
Highlights the disproportionately bad outcomes that can happen to people who are already vulnerable.
My grandma didn’t lose her freedom just because she was a woman. She didn’t lose it just because of polio. She didn’t lose it just because of childbirth. She didn’t lose it just because of marriage. She didn’t lose it just because of her childhood circumstances.
She wouldn’t have gotten all of her rights back if she hadn’t gotten polio. But she might have gotten a little more freedom. A little more personhood.
That’s why, when oppressive regimes and violent men attack medical aid, they are really trying to keep weak people weak. When there is a guaranteed sick and disabled population, there are guaranteed victims.
3
H0vis5 days ago
+13
Somebody already pointed this out but it bears repeating, this looks a lot like they killed a police officer for being a police officer.
While the CIA did stick a target on vaccine teams in that region more generally, given that Afghanistan and Pakistan have been in a shooting war for a while now this looks a lot like standard violence rather than anything specific about the vaccine.
13
Avatara935 days ago
+57
CIA fucked over Pakistan's programmes.
57
4th-Estate5 days ago
+26
Isn't that how the CIA tracked down Bin Laden? By analyzing DNA collected from vaccine programs to find relatives?
26
Arno_Dorian_115 days ago
-13
Doesn't matter, they still fucked our polio program. And before you whine about sheltering OBL, your Obama and Bush have killed far more people
-13
HighburyOnStrand5 days ago
+1
Bush made awful, awful mistakes in Iraq and Afghanistan...both were moral, humanitarian, political and military disasters...
...but lets not pretend like Iran and Pakistan were not both actively engaged in proxy tactics that caused an immense amount of suffering, prolonged those wars and directly caused many of the deaths of which you now complain.
If Pakistan had handed over Bin laden, Afghanistan might be a very different country right now.
I am totally fine accepting American culpability, but let's not be children and pretend that America was the only nation that made that shit sandwich.
1
Arno_Dorian_115 days ago
-5
So when it's you guys it's mistakes when it's is it's our fault and consequences deserved ok
-5
HighburyOnStrand5 days ago
+1
Pakistan has been an active state sponsor of terrorism, an active supporter of the Taliban and has generally fomented Islamic extremist governments in central Asia stemming back decades.
I am not running away from what American governments have done in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, etc. stemming back to Mosaddegh, the Afghan-Soviet conflict, etc. We bear responsibility.
...but let us not pretend that these things happened in a vacuum. Let us not pretend that the governments of Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. did not actively seek to destabilize their neighbors. Let us not pretend that Pakistan did not actively support the Taliban, going back to it's infancy. Let us not pretend that the combination of actions by these nations did not contribute directly to numerous attacks on Americans, culminating in 9/11. ...and let us not pretend like there was not a goal to drag America into the region, into a war and into collapse.
Pakistan harbored bin Laden for nine years, since literally year one of the Afghan war. ...and many, many Americans feel that Pakistan did not pay the proper consequences for that. Many, many Americans at that time wanted to rain hell fire down upon Pakistan. I was not one of them, I am a relative moderate. ...but the pressure on Obama to act in the wake of the bin Laden raid was immense. Pakistan then complaining diplomatically about "invasion of their sovereignty" in reaction to the raid on bin Laden was met with a collective "f*** you" by Americans and I believe more than rightly so. Thank heavens Obama was President at the time. Thank heavens that did not go completely off the rails...it easily could have...especially in light of the diplomatic response by Pakistan.
These were intentional acts. There has an appetite in America for truth and reconciliation. There has not been a concomitant appetite in Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. Pakistan never even officially apologized to the United States for their support of the Taliban, hosting of bin Laden, etc. ...for many Americans we turned the other cheek to Pakistan and in response Pakistan has spit in our faces and refused to even accept any accountability. In doing so, Pakistan have frustrated truth and reconciliation and made moderates and progressives.
...now you have a crumbling pax Americana, a mad man as president and a world descending into a chaos.
Again, we as Americans (many of us at least) are willing to accept culpability. ...but how can we have truth and reconciliation without all those involved in these conflicts being willing to do so?
1
Arno_Dorian_114 days ago
-4
America actively bombs other countries, steals resources, kills leaders, bribes governments. Get the f*** out of here with state sponsor of terrorism
-4
HighburyOnStrand4 days ago
+1
Keep proving my point.
1
Arno_Dorian_114 days ago
Americans want to rain hellfire on every country. Blood thirsty nation of war mongerors.
0
4th-Estate4 days ago
Wtf are you talking about. When did I say anything about Obama and Bush or condone the operation? Don't put words in my mouth. I simply gave context to the story you psycho.
0
minus_minus5 days ago
-24
wtf are you talking about?
-24
Peligineyes5 days ago
+38
The cia organized a vaccine drive to get their hands on bin laden's children's DNA so Pakistanis associate vaccination programs with American espionage now.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/11/cia-fake-vaccinations-osama-bin-ladens-dna
38
minus_minus4 days ago
So the CIA takes the blame for the Talibans pro-polio violence?
0
Peligineyes4 days ago
+2
They contributed to Pakistan's general anti-vaccine sentiment yes.
2
Dflipflowers5 days ago
+5
For anyone who is born outside the US we understand the impact of vaccinations and the positive changes brought to millions of people.
For those who are US born and have never been outside the country it’s a shame to think that they are doing good by withholding vaccines from children.
Measles, Polio and other cured diseases are now coming back for no credible reason. I guess the access to google or Ai has made them all science experts and they know better.
5
linux_transgirl5 days ago
+3
What a world we live in that I immediately thought this was in the US until I read the article
3
Base8415 days ago
+2
Pakistan? (Checks story) Yup, Pakistan. After the CIA used immunizations as cover for spying, add to the default suspicion of government and science, I'm disappointed but not surprised.
2
Vaulters4 days ago
+1
If my mortal enemies decide to start vaccinating my people against a terrible disease, I'm going to let them spend their resources on it and save my bullets.
Double win!
1
RedNewzz4 days ago
+1
This is the kind of thing that makes me wish every anti-vaxxer in the US developed a rectal prolapse.
To have successfully eradicated the disease and then willfully invite it back is an active intellectual treason so great as to wish personal physical harm upon those courting it.
1
totally_anomalous2 days ago
+1
Did DJT send RFK, Jr to stifle reality there, too?
Born 1948. US born & raised - and thankful for all vaccines.
1
Daren_I5 days ago
+1
> No group immediately claimed responsibility, but suspicion is likely to fall on the Pakistani Taliban and local militant groups, which often carry out similar attacks in the region and elsewhere. Pakistan and neighboring Afghanistan remain the only countries where polio has not been eradicated, according to the World Health Organization.
Well, if they are that adamant it shouldn't be eradicated there, I can't think of a group more deserving to carry on that debilitating disease. Sucks for their kids though.
1
Jacksmissingspleen5 days ago
+1
Surprised this isn’t Texas they are talking about
1
lessermeister5 days ago
-2
And this is in the country leading negotiations between the U.S. and Iran…
107 Comments