ListNook

fxkatt 5 days ago +353

>*The stop led the Omaha police chief to conduct an internal investigation into the officers’ actions. The chief said officers were found to have acted lawfully.* Why are these investigations of police almost invariably "internal?" Was Crawford driving recklessly or did the cop have to order him out at gunpoint? Exaggerations probably, but we will never really know.

353

Discount_Extra 5 days ago +152

there is a huge range of 'lawful' behavior that would get most people fired from their job.

152

drakeblood4 5 days ago +81

“Didn’t commit a crime” somehow became the standard for police in the past 60 years, while “didn’t give police an excuse to shoot you” became the standard for the public.

81

richardelmore 5 days ago +51

Given that the fine was $75 it seems like it was a minor traffic infraction. The whole "ordered out of the car at gunpoint" appears to be the result of police seeing a gun in the car and reacting to that. They confirmed that that the occupants had valid pistol licenses and let everyone go about their business after writing the traffic ticket. Did the police overreact to seeing the gun? I don't know but it doesn't sound like this escalated beyond getting the passengers out of the car and verifying that the guns were licensed. If the guys with Crawford were professional security then leaving a gun unsecured on the floor of the car doesn't seem very professional.

51

Roman_____Holiday 5 days ago +11

Did you read the same article? If you think a car full of white men would have been treated this way then your ignorance is complete. Maybe security took the gun off and put it there so these stupid racist cops wouldn't go off and shoot him point blank the second they saw it on his hip and had the thinnest excuse? "Did the cops overreact to seeing a gun"? Yes. They clearly did and he even announced the gun to them before they drew their weapons, here's a hint, the "thugs" and "gangbangers" you and your fellow cops are so worried about won't tell you they are armed while sitting in a car. You ignore any possibility of animus from the cops but chide the security for their supposed unprofessional conduct? Which LEO do you work for because you're out here carrying water for them.

11

zecknaal 5 days ago +1

That was my confusion as well. I can't think of a reason for there to be a gun laying on the floor. Combination of "wtf" and "gun" led officers to feel unsafe and get everybody out. Maybe if it was a car full of good old boys they all would have had a chuckle about it, but nothing screams wrong right away. The headline f****** sucks.

1

Kundrew1 5 days ago +7

Liability reasons. They’ve gotta know how bad he fucked up so they can cover their asses. Internal lets them know how exposed they are to more info coming out later down the line.

7

JBonez84 5 days ago +2

Trust us, bro

2

TheGoodKindOfPurple 5 days ago +1

Lawful evil is still lawful.

1

offtodevnull 5 days ago -48

If a doctor was suspected of making a mistake would you consult with a house painter, cab driver, or accountant? No. You'd ask another doctor given that's who would have the expertise to investigate/explain. Why would a policing situation be any different?

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allbetsareon 5 days ago +35

Police aren’t legal experts. If a child was suspected of making a mistake on a quiz would you consult another child or a teacher.

35

SithisAndSkoona 5 days ago +26

Theres other entities that perform investigations that could be more impartial than them investigating themselves? If a doctor committed a crime you wouldn't want his friend who's a doctor at the same hospital to explain. You would get an outside doctor who isn't close to the situation.

26

Strykerz3r0 5 days ago +18

That is a misrepresentation. The investigation was done by their own police chief, not a third party or independent agency with law enforcement knowledge. In malpractice suits, the doctor's department head isn't the one deciding the issue. And honestly, police should be held to a third-party review but their unions fight this every time.

18

GoldGlove2720 5 days ago +23

This is a deliberate oversimplification of investigations into doctors lmao. Police are investigated by themselves (or more accurately their buddies). Doctors are investigated by other doctors, their hospital, and the states medical board. The medical board is made up of mostly physicians. We don’t just let doctors investigate themselves and call it a day like we do police. No one said “police” shouldn’t be investigating stuff like this. What we shouldn’t be doing is having just the police department investigating their own police officers as there are tons of conflicts of interest unlike when a doctor makes a mistake.

23

Thetruthislikepoetry 5 days ago +3

Since lawyers know the law far better than police, why not have lawyers review it? Also, please don’t compare a job that has zero liability with one that has complete liability. Don’t compare a job that takes years, and in some cases over a decade of training and education to one that takes 6 months.

3

willstr1 5 days ago +1

I don't think anyone is saying that some random person should do the investigation, but it should be a separate agency or something. Like investigations into actions by a local cop should be handled by a state level agency. It will give justice a better shot then if the action is only "investigated" by the cop's close coworker. The more separate the command structure is the less likely it is that the investigation will be compromised

1

spleeble 5 days ago +137

"Careless driving" sounds like it really means "we pulled you over to see what we could find and came up empty, so now we need to cover our asses".

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pcpelste 5 days ago +81

Careless driving in Nebraska just means ‘minority while driving.’

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No-Gas8121 5 days ago +9

Truth. I was a 'dirty hippie with dreads' in Omaha when I was younger, and I was pulled over, ordered out of the car and searched (including my hair since one of the popo insisted I 'stashed' something in them). All said and done, pulled over for *checking notes* ah yes the license plate was poorly fastened to the car. One of the bolts was loose 😒

9

spleeble 5 days ago +18

They were clearly very careless about the color of their skin.

18

DeputyDipshit619 5 days ago +4

Hey if you can't do the time then you shouldn't have got that tan

4

Radical_Mid 5 days ago +1

Fr I worked in Omaha for three months last year and the first week I was there a highschool kid was killed by a driver running a red. Which is something I saw daily

1

Julen_23 5 days ago

only crime was being black in NE baby

0

stackjr 5 days ago +7

I got pulled over for careless driving when I was 16 (I was born and raised in Nebraska) because I squealed my tires around a corner.

7

Cetun 5 days ago +10

Say that in ask r/askLE and you get banned

10

spleeble 5 days ago +34

Not sure why I'd say anything there.

34

KuromanKuro 5 days ago -2

If it’s similar to other states reckless driving offense it could be breaking 3+ moving violations such as not stopping completely at a stop sign, speeding, not using blinkers when changing lanes, etc. This can elevate simple fines and license points to a court summons that may incur a higher fine and a very short sentence for repeat offenders.

-2

spleeble 5 days ago +1

That's nonsense. They didn't charge him with anything else, just "careless driving".

1

DoIQual123 5 days ago

I have family who works in the traffic court. Careless/reckless driving, 99% of the time, is what the prosecutor will offer in lieu of a ticket that will give points. So you'll have to pay a higher fine, but no points on your license.

0

spleeble 5 days ago +2

Ok, but that's not what this is about. And it's "reckless".

2

DoIQual123 5 days ago +1

Whoops, thanks - fixed the typo

1

georgeyp 5 days ago +1

Reckless driving is way more serious than careless driving in CO. Careless driving is what you plead down to when you didn't do something too bad but need punishment and $ for the courts

1

KimJongFunk 5 days ago +48

I’ve seen the video and I’ve read multiple news reports about this and I really feel like the news is trying to make this a bigger issue than it is. Crawford was celebrating his win when the police pulled him over. The passengers of the vehicle had firearms and tried to inform the officers. One officer did not hear this and saw a gun on the floorboard and ordered everyone out of the car (and if the video I saw wasn’t altered, it was a pretty calm interaction for the police). Then the police confirmed they were legally allowed to have the firearms, issued the ticket, and everyone went their separate ways. ETA: Link to the [video](https://youtu.be/aJ7l4imO7KY) so you can judge for yourself.

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Due_Warthog725 5 days ago -28

nope thats from the inside of the car, i want to see the dash cam/body cam from the cop pov

-28

richardelmore 5 days ago +12

The rules about body cam footage (at least in my state) say that someone involved in the incident can request it not just any random person. So if Crawford has no intention of pursuing some sort of action related to the stop then we may never see that video. To he honest that seems reasonable to me, unless there is some legal action involving the incident, the privacy of all parties (Crawford, passengers in his car, random people walking by and the police) should be protected by default.

12

Moneyshot_ITF 5 days ago -8

Firearms are not what the fine is for. Don't know why you feel the need to mention them

-8

darklyger64 4 days ago +3

To provide context why the officer had a need to pull out his gun, as if an officer pulled out his gun without any reason, one might lead to believe this is due to racism. His detailed summary of events made it clear that this was a mere misunderstanding about the circumstances about guns, and the fine was for speeding.

3

KimJongFunk 5 days ago +2

I did not mean to imply the fine was for the firearms.

2

SonOfMcGee 5 days ago +38

Minor traffic stop where occupants wisely informed the cops they were legally carrying firearms, though it appears at least one cop didn’t hear them. Regardless, a cop saw an unsecured gun *on the floor* of the car and everyone was ordered out at gunpoint while they figured shit out. Everyone was indeed allowed to legally carry weapons and the driver was given the minor ticket he was pulled over for in the first place. Not great for cops to pull their guns on people who are just politely responding to standard traffic stop questions. But also not great to have a gun just kicking around on the floor. Makes it look like you’re hiding it. That being said, I’m a doughy middle aged white guy, and if a cop was talking to me during a traffic stop and noticed a handgun on the floor, I bet he would say, “Hey… you shouldn’t keep that on the floor, ya dingus!” then either keep talking or write me a ticket for not having the gun secured. Probably wouldn’t even touch his gun…

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PogoMarimo 5 days ago +12

If you're in a car full of people and there's a gun kicking around on the floor, the cops woyld be stupid not to order everyone out of the vehicle for the sake of scene control. While it's not necessarily illegal in every state, any judge would rule a gun stashed on the floor within reach as justification for investigation and to order them out via PA v. Mimms. It's not because their black. Not every police interaction that occurs with black people is because they're black. As it turns out, cops have the same aversion to loose guns stashed on the floor of a strangers dark car as any normal person would.

12

CanWeTalkEth 5 days ago +3

It does feel like this fits the blueprint of so many of these stories. It's almost always: A cop looking for an excuse/primed for a fight + someone who did something stupid/careless/gave them that excuse. Obviously there's a huge power imbalance between an agent of the state and a private citizen and I would weigh the first part of that equation much, much higher than just about any action a private citizen could take. But if the story is true (loose gun on the floor), that's just giving them an excuse to f*** your day up whether we like it or not.

3

Secret-Sundae-1847 4 days ago +1

Then you’re an idiot. Cops will always order people out of they see a gun laying on the floor.

1

JayZeeBee 5 days ago +5

"We investigated ourselves and have decided we have acted lawfully. Thanks !"

5

steathrazor 5 days ago +2

That tends to happen when they investigate themselves there will never be Justice

2

nyg1219 4 days ago +1

A gun pointed at someone over what turns out to be $75, is certainly not the future I want for anyone. The f***?

1

johnnyorange 3 days ago +1

Hot take - what if every officer live streamed from now on their bodycams à la twitch

1

Thorse 2 days ago +1

You would lose even more privacy.

1

[deleted] 5 days ago -16

[removed]

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Due_Warthog725 5 days ago +7

blackwhiledriving wheres the dash cam of this careless driving?

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JohnFJax 5 days ago -2

Where's Crawford claiming any malfeasance

-2

Due_Warthog725 5 days ago -3

maybe crawdord doesn't want to waste a couple years fighting shit like afroman?

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JohnFJax 5 days ago +5

Or maybe it wasn't a big deal

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PigFarmer1 4 days ago

Having spent about 25 years of my adult life within 30 miles of Omaha I know Crawford is fortunate to still be alive. The Omaha PD has a well established track record of killing black men.

0

Terence Crawford fined $75 for careless driving after stop where police ordered him out at gunpoint

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