So texas put a man with mental disabilities on death row and failed to afford him a lawyer for 30 years.
965
Spire_Citron1 day ago
+303
It's expensive to house people on death row, too. They wasted a ton of money because I guess everyone was just too lazy to figure this situation out. The people who run the system can't be trusted to manage capital punishment in a way that's any kind of responsible.
303
mountaindoom1 day ago
+115
Prison owner didn't mind the profit.
115
Spire_Citron1 day ago
+31
Yeah, that's probably it more than lazy. The people in a position to spot the issue probably didn't want to fix it.
31
laveshnk22 hr ago
+2
why is it expensive to house on death row? Isnt that just a normal prison in a different place
2
Spire_Citron17 hr ago
+8
It's just a more specialised housing system because obviously that's a much smaller population.
8
laveshnk17 hr ago
+4
Apparently its DA costs rather than housing, the legal costs of DR inmates are just too much to handle. A Texas DA said about one of the Texas inmates on death row that her case itself costed them ~400k for just 6 months of litigation , and that henceforth they would be pushed for life instead of DR.
4
Spire_Citron17 hr ago
+1
Yeah, legal costs are definitely what blows the cost out the most. Execution is insanely expensive.
1
mces971 day ago
+79
Seems like with an IQ of 60 at best he should had been mandated to a state psychiatric facility even if he did murder someone.
79
Frifelt23 hr ago
+22
In Denmark offenders with this low IQ (I think it’s below 70 that is the limit) are put in a special facility with pedagogues instead prison guards. It’s still under heavy security as some of them can be very dangerous and showing lack of restraint and understanding consequences, eg setting things on fire if given the chance. They have a lot more freedom than in a prison but more importantly people around them who understands this specific group and how to help them. Especially if they are let back out to a normal assisted living, they need to learn to control their impulses better.
22
Anthraxious1 day ago
+40
Considering they've executed mentally ill people and even children nothing surprises me when it comes to this horror show of "justice". Just f****** vile.
40
[deleted]23 hr ago
-1
[deleted]
-1
palcatraz21 hr ago
+3
But that’s a list that only looks at executions since 1976. The history of the death penalty in the USA is much longer and absolutely included the deaths of actual juveniles.
3
[deleted]1 day ago
-8
[removed]
-8
retze441 day ago
+9
Highest incarceration rate per capita, your Justice System is way beyond horror, it‘s for profit. Shameful for a developed Country.
9
[deleted]1 day ago
+20
[deleted]
20
Tyrrox1 day ago
+80
He was so disabled, texas wasn't *allowed* to execute him. But still kept him there without giving him any sort of legal advocate.
80
petit_cochon19 hr ago
+3
Most inmates will have an appointed attorney for their immediate post conviction appeal if they can't afford it, but not beyond that? There aren't enough public defenders. If their sentence is upheld, it's unlikely it will ever be overturned. Sometimes, they can get it reduced, though that's also hard. Overturning a conviction is extremely difficult because getting a murder conviction is pretty difficult. It requires a lot of evidence and meeting a high legal standard.
Caveat: we all know innocent people are convicted and sentenced sometimes, and then there's the issue of people, mostly non-white people, sentenced during times when "fair trial" had a verrrry different definition than that of modern society.
Death row can be different if people take an interest in the case but other times, the inmates are pro se. Advocacy groups take on cases of legal significance, not necessarily the guy who killed his girlfriend and left a trail of evidence a mile wide.
The hard part is that you can't always tell the difference between the guy who killed his girlfriend and the guy who was railroaded. Violent criminals are not prone to taking responsibility for their actions. So the system can't be swayed by protestations; it runs on the assumption that the courts did their job properly, that the plea deal was voluntary, that the public defender was competent and the prosecution didn't withhold exculpatory evidence *unless and until* someone can prove otherwise.
I'm not in favor of the death penalty for many reasons, but I guess that some people think the reality of executing some innocent people is okay balanced against executing a lot of bad ones.
I suspect they'd change their mind if they were wrongly convicted.
3
Squire_II19 hr ago
+5
Sounds about right for the One Star State.
5
Mousse_Knucklehead1 day ago
+519
Damn, this guy has been in prison since the 50s? Wild.
Me: *realizes 50 years ago is now the 70s*
F***
519
celem831 day ago
+201
They are not letting him out either. Hes still guilty and they are giving him life in all likelihood. They are just not pretending like they might one day kill a man who has already been ruled incompetant
201
bcbamom1 day ago
+36
Probably better care than not in jail, tbh and sad to say. Services for people with disabilities are less than stellar.
36
Lucius-Halthier1 day ago
+51
Yea that sounds like Texas
51
_Nightbreaker_1 day ago
+1
Plus, he's an asset to the massive prison industry system here in the U.S.
1
n0respect_1 day ago
+13
In 2026, listening to Bohemian Rhapsody is like being in 1976 and listening to [Tea for Two](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiK3APQP3LY&list=RDJiK3APQP3LY&t=13s).
OK y'know what that T42 was a great song. But the point remains: we're old. Like Grandpa Simpson old.
13
Rowf1 day ago
+4
Are you saying kids today don’t wear onions on their belts?
4
princessnubz1 day ago
+5
shhhhhhhhhhhh it’s gonna be ok
5
EnragedTea431 day ago
+148
Just to clarify, he was not exonerated. His death sentence was overturned because he suffers from mental disabilities, meaning he is not eligible for the death penalty.
148
logicalpiranha1 day ago
+6
I wish the IRS would understand I'm not a tax attorney and might as well have an IQ of 60 for the tax code.
6
123ludwig1 day ago
-53
that feels... weird? if you commit a death penalty crime i feel like you should get the death penalty no matter your state of mind? like what does having being mentally ill change on if you sit in a cell or die(i dont support the death penalty this legal semantic just confuses me)
-53
coder655351 day ago
+29
Many crimes, including all capital crimes, require a "*mens rea*", a "guilty [state of] mind", for them to be prosecutable. In essence, you need to both be aware of what you're doing and that it's (generally considered to be) wrong.
Mental illness can impair this, leading to defendants that are incapable of comprehending their act was wrong, and thus not having the necessary *mens rea*.
One example of this would be someone who is delusional that their neighbor is a wolf and, therefore, shoots them: this act would not be "murder", as the perpetrator honestly did not believe they were attacking a person. (It probably *would* get convicted over a lesser offence with a lower level of *mens rea*, though, such as negligent/reckless homicide, although it would depend on the exact jurisdiction.)
In this case, the defendant was, eventually, determined to be incapable of the *mens rea* of the capital crime (but not of other, lesser offences that lead to the life sentence).
29
celem831 day ago
+9
With an IQ measured at 60 he's mental age maybe 9-12 somewhere despite being biologically 70. He's also schizophrenic.
While it's possible to convict children of this age of murder (and it's happened in my lifetime in the UK with the killing of James Bulger) it's not at all uncommon for the charges to fall to negligent homicide or manslaughter because as a society we recognise that children are proto-adults and make bad judgement calls often.
So that's what's happened, they've decided he can't be guilty of full murder as he's effectively not adult and the circumstances of the case don't support charging a child with it.
9
No-Celebration30971 day ago
+151
This is why I’m against the death penalty, I’d like to know what evidence sent him to death row
151
cjsv76571 day ago
+134
The death sentence was overturned. Not the conviction.
134
notasrelevant1 day ago
+15
It's in the article.
Seems they are upholding his guilt over the murder, but ruled he was/is not mentally competent enough to be sentenced to death.
15
[deleted]1 day ago
+9
[removed]
9
BinniesPurp1 day ago
+34
I mean he took like 7 people hostage at gunpoint with an AKM, killed a guy then stole his car it wasn't really a case of "they probably just blamed him", it was Infront of a lot of people and he had a machine gun
34
a8bmiles1 day ago
-59
Or a young, pretty white wife with 2 young children who are still having nightmares from the ghastly things they saw.
-59
AP_in_Indy1 day ago
-30
This is why I'm also against indefinite sentencing. Even 20 years + probation / monitoring is better than actual lifetime sentences.
Someone is not even the same person after 20 years. I don't care what the crime is. The state does not have the right to withhold someone indefinitely. It is inhumane.
-30
metametapraxis1 day ago
+45
There are also people that can simply never safely be released though. You can't take a serial sexual murderer (for instance) and release them without huge risk to the public. In most countries, these kind of "never release" tariffs need intervention at a much higher level than the US. The UK, for instance, needs the home secretary (IIRC) to make that determination. In NZ for the Christchurch Shooter, it required similar high-level government involvement.
Of course, in the US, the entire prison and justice system is a train-wreck.
45
AP_in_Indy1 day ago
-23
Then put them on probation until they complete a full therapy/treatment program.
But don't hold them indefinitely. It's OK to monitor them and wait for them to attempt re-offending.
That's when you can slap on another 20 year sentence.
-23
metametapraxis1 day ago
+16
"full therapy/treatment program."
You realise this is actually functionally impossible for the kinds of people that - outside the US 's basketcase system- are given lifetime tariffs. They aren't handed out for fun. They are handed out because these are people that cannot be rehabilitated.
"wait for them to attempt re-offending."
You are going to watch these people 24 hours a day so you can apprehend them when you think they might be about to commit a crime (but before they actually do)?
You are incredibly naive, I think.
16
AP_in_Indy1 day ago
-18
Many people think innocent until proven guilty is naive and also a tremendous burden, but it is what is right. Lifetime sentences are torture. They're a waste of a human life and serve no purpose except to torture an individual until they die while incarcerated. They should be outright banned.
-18
metametapraxis1 day ago
+11
That is what is called "false equivalence".
A life sentence is unpleasant for the incarcerated person. It is (when used appropriately) for the greater good. And that is good enough. Because even though you are willing to put your loved ones at risk for an ideal, I'm not willing to put your loved ones at risk for an ideal (and neither are most societies).
11
AP_in_Indy1 day ago
-2
I don't see how torturing someone by keeping them locked in a cage for potentially 30 - 80 years "for the greater good". Anyone who's OK with this has blood on their hands.
-2
SyrupCute449323 hr ago
+8
You sound like an animal, who wants predators to roam free, bet you prey on innocents too. Weird you simp for scum.
8
AP_in_Indy17 hr ago
-1
There are ways to mitigate this risk without keeping someone confined to a prison for life.
-1
metametapraxis18 hr ago
+3
I think if you don't understand why preventing someone from being able to kill or harm others is for the greater good, you have basic understanding and common-sense issues that are beyond my ability to address.
3
AP_in_Indy17 hr ago
+1
There are ways to mitigate this risk without keeping someone confined to a prison for life.
1
imaxwellp16 hr ago
+1
these foolish ideas would only get more people hurt; incredible you somehow found a way to manufacture a worse system than what's already in place
1
HulkDeez1 day ago
+9
There are literally serial killers who operated for longer than 20 years. Your argument makes no sense.
9
AP_in_Indy1 day ago
-3
I’m not going to justify torturing the many prisoners that we do because of the 0.00000001% of people who are on 30-year serial killing sprees (probably not enough 0’s).
Also, the longevity of serial killers has nothing to do with my argument. If you’re concerned about someone, you can put them on probation and continue to monitor them
-3
Escape-artist-431 day ago
+8
Even for murder? Like in this case?
8
ThereIsOnlyStardust1 day ago
+8
The state should have an obligation to continue to justify holding an individual. If they can show that releasing them poses a risk, fair enough. But justice is not infallible and there are plenty of people locked up for life sentences, look at things like triple strike laws, that would be perfectly safe for reintegration into society.
8
Escape-artist-431 day ago
+1
I think for murder specifically, there are some crimes that are so heinous that you give up all your chances for freedom. The risk/reward to society of releasing a convicted cold-blooded killer is a terrible trade-off.
Like realistically, what are the benefits of everything goes right? They get a respectable job and have a family? And if it goes wrong, they murder someone else? Not even close to worth risking it IMO.
1
ThereIsOnlyStardust1 day ago
+10
One in seven US prisoners is there for a life sentence. The US has 40% of the world’s life sentenced prisoners despite having less than 5% of its population. Clearly something is very wrong with how sentencing is handled in this country and it should be on the state to prove that they valid reasons to hold individuals indefinitely.
10
RainbowCrane1 day ago
+3
The nineties and the War on Drugs sentencing “reforms” really negatively impacted our sentencing guidelines in the US. It’s a pretty significant blemish on Joe Biden’s record that he backed those harsher sentences.
3
Spire_Citron1 day ago
-1
And it sure doesn't result in lower violent crime rates.
-1
ImportantObjective451 day ago
Top cop Masaad Ayoob said he knew of 60 wrongful death sentences. I'm pretty sure Mitch Rupe was innocent.
0
[deleted]1 day ago
-1
[removed]
-1
Church_of_Aaargh1 day ago
+10
And this is why death penalty is a horrible idea
10
[deleted]1 day ago
-24
[removed]
-24
Spire_Citron1 day ago
+6
And they spent nearly 50 years paying for him to sit on death row even though he wasn't eligible for execution. The whole this is alarmingly mismanaged.
6
derfy21 day ago
+2
*sigh* If you're gonna use slurs, *especially that one*, do a quick spell check first.
2
whereamI081723 hr ago
+1
Good catch!
1
Feisty-Barracuda54521 day ago
+6
Boy, Texas is a shithole f****** state eh?
6
[deleted]1 day ago
+2
[removed]
2
Friendo_Marx1 day ago
-1
Justice for Joe L. Williams. If he was my brother I would give zero fucks about the "mental competence" of his killer. Anyone who chooses to blow a guy away because he doesn't have a car to steal is obviously mentally incompetent. Like, aren't all stick-up-guys mentally incompetent? It wasn't like he was a criminal mastermind who meticulously plans out a heist. These kinds of guys are all mental failures that's why they resort to being a stick-up-guy. He blew the man away over nothing, there are no excuses. It was also the end of an "armed robbery spree." This case is not really a great example for criminal justice reform.
-1
crooked-v7 hr ago
+1
He's gotten a 60 or less on IQ tests. IQ tests have plenty of problems, but even taking those problems into account, that's the kind of territory that comes from literal brain damage and generally goes with someone being literally unable to care for themselves day to day because they don't understand basic things about normal life.
1
A_Nonny_Muse1 day ago
-2
That can't be right. We have G. W. Bush's personal guarantee that "Texas don't make those mistakes".
So now he's lying and nearly a hundred people whose appeals were denied to make Bush right about that were denied their constitutional rights? Someone needs to put G.W.Bush on death row and see how he likes it.
-2
AP_in_Indy1 day ago
-19
This is why I'm against indefinite sentencing. Even 20 years + probation / monitoring is better than actual lifetime sentences.
Someone is not even the same person after 20 years. I don't care what the crime is. The state does not have the right to withhold someone indefinitely. It is inhumane.
-19
sswihart1 day ago
+7
I disagree. I think sexual offenders and murders deserve to be locked up forever. Even at a young age.
There are some bad people that just can’t be fixed and there’s no good system to figure it out.
7
AP_in_Indy1 day ago
I disagree with your counter-points. Doesn't make sense. These people are already out on the streets, so are bank robbers and plenty of other disagreeable folks. Some people reoffend. Some people don't.
Everyone is capable of committing crime. No one deserves to be locked up forever.
0
metametapraxis1 day ago
+4
Most people should not be locked up forever, but some should be. Would you be happy having someone like Dahmer back on the streets? Would you be happy being the one to tell the parents of whoever he killed that it was because he deserved a second chance?
4
AP_in_Indy1 day ago
+1
It would be difficult, but yes, including if this was the result of a crime committed against me or my own family.
I fundamentally, deeply, do not believe that people should be confined for any longer than 20 years in prison.
It is torture and an injustice in its own right.
1
Spire_Citron1 day ago
I think it's worth looking at other countries who don't do life sentences as often and comparing their rates of violent crimes to the US. America is big on life sentences, but it doesn't really seem to pay off when you look at the numbers. Taking the money you would have spent on incarcerating people for longer and instead investing it on rehabilitation would likely produce better results. Because right now, even the people who do get released don't get much rehabilitation.
0
HumansNeedNotApply11 day ago
-3
There's a good system, it's called treatment and therapy. Some people can't exactly be healed but we can for sure identify those who can and more importantly those who are sick and at least treat them.
Of course if you see prison as a place to punish for wrong-doing, underfund and privatize them, then yeah, there won't be a system to figure it out.
-3
sswihart1 day ago
+5
Not everyone can be fixed unfortunately. I’m sorry but I don’t want a rapist or murderer running around after five years in the system.
5
HumansNeedNotApply11 day ago
+3
Well, they already are! And without any real attempt to resocialize them, and honestly if they can't be "fixed", they shouldn't be free.
3
AP_in_Indy1 day ago
-2
They are and so are bank robbers and plenty of other folks you find disagreeable.
-2
metametapraxis1 day ago
+1
Oh, well that's OK then.
1
whereamI08171 day ago
-3
To an extent. If you are a serial/mass murder or Epstein level predator I don’t want you living on my taxes, period. I don’t know how feasible it is to “exile” a person, so I prefer the death penalty for those “unfixable” cases when given proper trials.
-3
armywalrus1 day ago
+2
Death penalty sentences are always more expensive than life sentences. If you don’t want horrendous criminals "living off your taxes" you have to be against the death penalty. Instead of immediately arguing, take your device and do a quick Google search.
2
whereamI081723 hr ago
+1
My issue isn’t necessarily how much it’d cost to put someone to death vs keep them alive, it’s the fact/principle of that they ARE alive solely because I work to keep them living and reasonably healthy. The difference in amount to keep someone for life vs the death penalty could be 50 cents and I’d prefer death because they DON’T deserve to be taken care of by society when even the civilized are forced to toil for their needs.
You’d be correct if the reasons as to why it’s so costly is because of the fact that “death row”, in America at least, is such a slow and inefficient process. There should be no reason anyone needs to spend decades in prison for an appeal after being found guilty and sentenced.
1
AP_in_Indy1 day ago
+2
Death penalty is unjust in every circumstance.
2
TenchuReddit1 day ago
+2
17-year-old kills two people in cold blood. Said 17-year-old also has a long rap sheet. He gets tried, convicted, and sentenced at the age of 18.
You really think our correctional system will be good enough to reform this convict before the release age of 38?
2
AP_in_Indy1 day ago
+1
Doesn't matter. I think it's not the right of the state to hold someone imprisoned indefinitely like that.
The fact that it's a 17-year old makes it even worse. By the time they are 38, they will be an entirely grown man instead of a kid.
Frontal lobe isn't even fully developed until your mid-20's.
1
TenchuReddit1 day ago
+3
So a 38-year-old who has known nothing but the life of a gangbanger and even has experience taking life is someone you’d trust back out in society.
Straight out of the Chesa Boudin school of “restorative justice.” Thank God even liberal San Francisco had enough of that.
3
AP_in_Indy1 day ago
+2
I wouldn't trust them. Put them on probation. Someone like that is likely to reoffend. But it is unjust to hold someone indefinitely behind bars, no matter the crime.
2
RCer19861 day ago
-2
But then how would for-profit prisons make so much money? Surely we can sacrifice the freedom of a few minorities so that the rich can get richer.
-2
ShutterBun1 day ago
+2
There are very few “for profit” prisons in the U.S.
2
willargue4karma1 day ago
+1
You're falling for a trick. Even the public prisons use private companies for contract work
It's a giga industry
1
ShutterBun1 day ago
+4
Right but that’s like saying public schools are “for profit” since they rely on outside contractors for many of their services
4
RCer19861 day ago
-3
Around 10% is not "very few." There is also a multi billion dollar industry for private companies that charge for services and goods meaning that it's in their best interest to keep incarceration rates high. Inmates are also exploited for almost free labor generating revenue for states and the fed along with several other ways profits are made off of them.
-3
armywalrus1 day ago
This isn't about what you call indefinite sentencing.
0
NukedForZenitco14 hr ago
Crazy how I remember people in my town getting arrested for being pedos when I was like 9. 20 years later I see them on the news again for the same shit. You sound like you don't know anything.
0
AP_in_Indy13 hr ago
+2
20 years is enough time to give someone a second chance
2
Dunky_Arisen23 hr ago
-4
It pisses me off when people see stories like this and comment/talk about justice being served.
Releasing the wrongfully accused is never justice. Ever. It's an acknowledgement of a great injustice. Justice would be magically returning the wasted years they spent rotting in a cell instead of living their lives, so of course, nobody has or will ever find justice after the system has declared them its scapegoat.
-4
silviofine23 hr ago
+8
So you didn’t read the article
8
Dunky_Arisen23 hr ago
-4
I'm speaking generally.
-4
CautiousArachnidz1 day ago
-2
Get him one of those decorations that says “Live your life like there’s no tomorrow.”
-2
Vindicare6051 day ago
-10
Anyone asks why I'm against the death penalty, this is why. I dont trust the court to not execute innocent people. I'd rather see the most heinous criminals rot in jail for the rest of their lives, rather than having the chance of the state executing some people who got screwed over by the justice system.
-10
don_shoeless1 day ago
+14
I fully agree with you about the death penalty, but this guy wasn't exonerated, he was simply found ineligible for the death penalty due to intellectual disability. He'll still do life in prison.
14
TabulaRasaNot1 day ago
+9
Read the story.
9
MealDramatic18851 day ago
-3
Did he donate to Dump? I wish that could only be read as a joke.
-3
digidave11 day ago
-14
I wish somehow he could sue and win millions of dollars. Spend the rest of his life in mid luxury.
F*** the man.
-14
NotActuallyMeta1 day ago
+17
Well the guy is going to stay in jail because he still killed someone in cold blood. He just won’t get executed because he was determined to be mentally disabled.
I agree our system is fucked, but maybe take the fifteen seconds needed to click and skim an article before making baseless statements.
17
digidave11 day ago
-10
It's going back for new sentencing. If he is mentally unstable enough to not be given the death sentence,maybe he's not stable enough to be in prison and receive rehabilitation.
108 Comments