Remember when you didn’t need to look up when a new season of a show was going to come because they came every year?
92
whitepangolin3 days ago
+1734
I’ve never heard anyone talk about this show
1734
Stupidstuff10013 days ago
+1007
It’s a show where
- they gave the director an unlimited effects budget but told him that they plan on reusing stuff so nothing can be damaged. So everything always looks brand new and clean.
- they gave the cgi department a bare bones budgets
- they refused to hire more than 2 writers
- they made sure management was involved in the script to “appeal to everyone”
In turn it became a soulless show with terrible cgi and all the live props have this weird uncanny valley look to them.
1007
RaVashaan3 days ago
+362
The cherry on top is, they paid half a billion dollars for the rights to write a story from *only the appendices* of Return of the King. They are explicitly not allowed to use anything from The Silmilrillion, or any of the History of Middle Earth lore books.
362
Irishfafnir3 days ago
+101
Honestly, in the grand scheme of things, there's not much written by Tolkien about the Second Age anyway. It's largely 1st and 3rd
101
_Ganon3 days ago
+65
... We don't talk about the Second Age.
65
HapaxMahnaMahna3 days ago
+53
The second age, whatever happened there…
53
wookie_dog2 days ago
+27
That Sauron... We can't have him in our social club no more, that much I do know
27
Chicken7132 days ago
+14
Social club!?! He’s gotta go!!!
14
SassyAssAhsoka2 days ago
+11
Gollum never had the makings of a varsity footballer
11
bwoah-barcodeferrari2 days ago
+6
Jesus Christ, Hapax. What the f***? Why would you possibly bring that up?
6
SpeedyEggbertRamirez2 days ago
+3
He was just a kid.
3
SalvaPot3 days ago
+33
That is like if Sony paid Marvel that money just to be able to use the rogue gallery of spider-man and make movies only about them.
33
JarasM2 days ago
+3
That wouldn't have been much of an issue, if they didn't just straight up ignore or change 75% of it. It would have been a perfect opportunity to take a rudimentary story outline, adapt that faithfully and fill in the gaps, but nooooooo
3
OneLessFool3 days ago
+66
It's kind of insane that a show this big, with this much of a budget didn't throw a huge budget and generous timeline to the writing and story development team.
66
Stupidstuff10013 days ago
+14
Right. It should have been awesome. The chemistry is terrible except the dwarf and elf. Hell the whole show should have been them trying to create a party for this potential war.
14
pantstoaknifefight22 days ago
+7
Elrond reminds me too much of Doogie Howser.
7
ricree2 days ago
+12
I know purists don't like it, but the *concept* for the show is amazing:
Despite being chronologically over 1000 years apart, conflating the forging of the rings and the downfall of Numenor into a single continuous storyline is a completely reasonable adaptation change that is perfectly capable of working... IF you have a good writing staff that is able to break it all up into good character beats and plotlines. Instead, pretty much every part of the execution was botched.
12
Stupidstuff10012 days ago
+2
I agree the concept is awesome. Just how it was done didn’t work for me.
2
GargamelLeNoir3 days ago
+206
Wait they hired writers? This must be a new development.
206
Stupidstuff10013 days ago
+20
And the single writer wanted every line of dialogue to be epic but it made it all seem cringe
20
GlumAd24243 days ago
+47
Mr A and Mr I, together A and I writes away like no human ever have
47
theClumsy13 days ago
+23
Yeah season 3 have new writers.
The showrunners are still around but they have a new writer team.
23
bluehawk2323 days ago
+48
Also they gave the showrunners a series who essentially had no prior experience or credits. Nepotism or blackmail had to be a factor
48
given2fly_3 days ago
+17
I'm all for giving new up and coming talent the chance at making a TV show, but to give them literally the most expensive one ever made was insanity. You put that sort of thing in the hands of people who know exactly what they're doing.
Look at what Disney did with its first live action Star Wars show. Gave it to Jon Favreau who has experience making big budget movies and Dave Filoni who has been writing for the franchise for years. They weren't taking any risks giving it to newcomers.
17
Surroundedonallsides3 days ago
+33
They are from the school of JJ Abrams "Bad robot" aka : do whatever the money guys tell you to do and dont give a f*** about good writing or narratives.
The Bad Robot acolytes have managed to destroy every childhood IP I grew up loving. Star Wars, Star Trek, LOTR, who knows maybe they'll do a dragonball Z treatment next.
33
ForWhomTheBoneBones3 days ago
+24
When I saw Galadriel in her inside out chocolate coin foil wrapper armor, I knew I was out.
Somehow managed to make even a bland costume look weird and foamy.
24
Downtown-Reason-54633 days ago
+13
When Galadriel started dating Sauron I was out…
13
k1dsmoke3 days ago
+39
For most of S1 I was willing to defend the show and see what they had, I thought it was rough, but had potential. By the end of the season it had lost me.
I checked back in and then saw a storyline in s2 where they tried to make Orcs sympathetic victims with babies and an oppressed culture and it just completely lost me.
Tolkien struggled with whether or not the Orcs were redeemable in his own private letters/writing, but he never made his mind up. The fact that the writers of the show tried to do that for him his ego and hubris.
We are awash with cynical, "morally grey", misunderstood baddies storytelling.
If any place should be a space set aside for classic good vs evil story telling it should be Tolkien.
The writers/studio just failed on the most fundamental levels with this show.
39
Jakabov3 days ago
+24
> Tolkien struggled with whether or not the Orcs were redeemable in his own private letters/writing, but he never made his mind up. The fact that the writers of the show tried to do that for him his ego and hubris.
Plus there's a huge difference between *"maybe possibly redeemable"* and *"literally good guys all along who were never in fact really evil."*
24
Rhoubbhe3 days ago
+71
J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay, the Producers worked for JJ Abrams/ Bad Robot. They clearly paid special attention on how to annihilate an established IP by terrible writing and stupid decisions.
I couldn't even make it through the first season, this show is utterly horrible.
71
GepMalakai3 days ago
+15
I couldn't even make it through the first two episodes I was so bored. My wife, who is not a nerd but did happen to be in the room while I was watching, commented on how slow and dull they were.
15
smellsliketeenferret3 days ago
+11
The second season is better...
I mean, It's still awful though, aside from a couple of episodes where the focus is mostly on two characters, and the writing and contrived nature of moving the plot along are just as bad as the first season.
Hopefully the third season will actually have some decent writing now they have changed the writers, but who knows?!
11
Stupidstuff10013 days ago
+23
I heard that about the wheel of time too. The problem is you don’t get a following from a terrible first season to a good / great second. Your first season needs to be good at least to keep viewers and keep improving.
23
SpikyCactusJuice3 days ago
+6
I get what you’re saying, but I disagree here. The wheel of time’s first season may have been disappointing to fans, but to me, it was was leaps and bounds ahead of the rings of power’s.
That said, I think your point still stands.
(Full disclosure: I’ve only watched these as shows, I’m not familiar with the source material. I mean, I’ve read the hobbit and the Lord of the rings, but none of the ancillary stuff, and I’ve never read the wheel of time.)
6
sunfaller3 days ago
+7
To give you the perspective, Rand is supposed to be the Harry Potter or Aragorn/Frodo, Neo of Wheel of Time.
He was supposed to annihilate the incoming army in the last episode to show he is indeed the chosen one. Instead that moment was given to Nynaeve and the other girl.
So naturally all the fans of the book who actually had hopes it will have some semblace to the original story have left and now the show is dead.
7
Rhoubbhe3 days ago
+24
I am not bothering to watch any more of this show run by two Bad Robot hacks with zero talent. They created an unlikable, evil Galadriel who should be named Karen, Elrond Doogie Houser the Deceiver, psychotic Nietzsche Hobbits that callously leave people to die, and the "Make Númenor Great Again" mob screaming about elves taking 'Muh Jobs!'
Those are just a few of the many sins of this awful show. They had their chance in Season One and blew it. I wish you the best of luck watching Season 3, have an upvote for responding, but I would rather endure Chinese Water Torture..
24
adamtnewman3 days ago
+8
Yeah, people keep saying they should give the writing team a bigger budget and the show would be amazing. But that's just not true. Money can only do so much. It's just bad decisions all over from every department. A knight of the seven kingdoms and the pitt are some of the best television this year and both shows have a lower budget combined.
8
Rhoubbhe3 days ago
+8
1000% correct. It is not the budget, it's the writing.
8
power8992 days ago
+2
Who cares if it went from a 1/10 to a 2/10. S2 still had a trash ending.
2
Lower-Engineering3653 days ago
+10
Yeah the final bullet was what clinched it for me. I don’t care about the gender or race of characters most of the time, there are plenty of great movies and shows with female leads for instance.
But in trying to watch this show this was one where it really felt like the development of characters and plot was stunted. Like they were just like “cool we put a woman and black people in so people will like this by default because we’re so progressive and it’s also LOTR” and forgot they needed to also actually make a good show.
10
AKAkorm3 days ago
+210
For me, it’s squarely OK. Has some nice moments and some mediocre to bad ones. The long breaks between seasons and middle of road quality makes it hard to want to talk about it much. But I do watch it.
210
Triskan3 days ago
+42
I mean... sometimes the show has some very good ideas but it's just drowned in forgettable and often eye-rolling tropes.
It could have been such a ballsy almost-anthology, covering entire centuries alongside elves while humans lived and died around them. Check every generation or so on Numenor as their hatred towards the Valar grows, eventually fueled directly by Sauron when he's captured, while the court intrigue and manipulation of Annatar, Celebrimbor and all in Eregion could have been a long-game spanning decades.
And just occasionally have plots A and B intertwine until they eventually merge as we get closer to the Last Alliance.
It would have been a conceptual show in some ways, and tough to write through, but it would have been, in my humble opinion, such a better approach to the story.
42
bathtubsplashes3 days ago
+18
Anything Sauron related has been a welcome exploration that I think is a good interpretation of the legandariun. The Deceiver
But the show does swing wildly between highs and lows
18
IrrelevantLeprechaun3 days ago
+13
Every time they cut back to whatever the not-hobbits are doing, I always just sighed to myself because *I don't care about the not-hobbits.* The story of how Gandalf got his name, his staff and his affinity for hobbits is not a story that needs to be told. Leastways not the way they're telling it.
13
pm_me_your_trebuchet2 days ago
+2
this would have been amazing. especially how it would highlight the fleeting nature of human life compared with the elves and the increasing awe/jealousy of the numenoreans as they came to fully realize that the elves they were dealing with in 2000SA were the same that their founder, elros, dealt with. if this feeling of desperate mortality vs unachievable immortality could have been parsed it would have been incredible: we spend some time with the elves in eregion, a few season by their standards, and when we return to numenor or middle earth at large we discover generations have passed and the last visits of these elves are almost items of legend. f****** awesome. but what do we get? the f****** A-TEAM in middle earth. utter shit.
2
Drunken_Vike3 days ago
+264
art that is "meh" in quality tends not to provoke a lot of discussion
264
Pump_and_Magdump3 days ago
+146
Yeah, if it was absolute complete shit that at least people could make fun of it, but it commits the worst possible crime of being just boring.
146
uuhson3 days ago
+16
Season 1 was highly made fun of, and then season 2 came out and I lost interest in hate watching even
16
OttawaDog3 days ago
+10
I only watched some of the first season and thought it was well below "meh".
I forgot about it afterword. Surprised it's still running.
10
Massive_Weiner3 days ago
+156
It’s a soulless, multi-million dollar production. There’s nothing to talk about outside of set design.
156
owa003 days ago
+63
Soulless is the best way to describe this show. I don't feel any connection with the characters. This show could be any generic sci-fi show, but the only difference is it has a large budget to gloss over it's deficiencies by throwing money at it.
63
BigCommieMachine3 days ago
+30
I think a good contrast is Foundation. It is equally as high budget beautiful as RoP and the story is confusing as shit, but it is interesting and the acting carries it until the story makes some sense.
Also Lee Pace fighting completely n*** is worth a watch alone 10/10.
30
Danbito3 days ago
+15
It's also fascinating as the original content is usually touted as the best thing about the show in comparison to the adaptation itself. Which isn't to say it's bad, just more limited in its narrative.
Seeing Lee Pace and the other emperors play different variations of the 'same' characters each season brings some spice into the story
15
wildfire3933 days ago
+6
If you've ever read the source material, it's pretty painful. It reads kind of like a wikipedia article summarizing a real story. Things happen, people are there, and then a prerecorded Seldon hologram appears and says "yes this is just as I predicted".
Some of the broader story beats have been adapted, like the existence of The Mule as a powerful psionic who breaks the prediction algorithm, but a lot of the content like the whole Cleonic Dynasty and Seldon as more than a recording is made up entirely.
6
Danbito3 days ago
+7
And unlike some sci-fi fans, I’d argue making Seldon an AI than a projection of prerecorded messages is an amazing form of modernization of technology that wasn’t even thought of at the time Asimov wrote these novels. Nuclear power was the optimistic innovation that the civilization was built on back then.
The novels just can’t be adapted because it wouldn’t translate to an actual narrative.
7
snoopwire3 days ago
+2
They're almost similar -- pretty, mediocre writing, one good plotline and the rest are eh at best. Empire is HARD carrying Foundation. RoP had Adar but sadly he didn't get enough screen time.
2
BigCommieMachine3 days ago
+2
Empire is suppose to carry the series. Apple got that right.
2
NoTitleChamp3 days ago
+57
Really? This sub consistently complains about it.
57
CrimsonTyphoon06133 days ago
+19
Yeah, and there’s literally 4-5 LOTR based subs that do nothing but argue about it from the time the first teaser comes out until the time it’s renewed for the next season.
19
What_The_Fuck__Brain3 days ago
+12
OP probably means people in real life not in a television sub on listnook.
I have to say I agree with OP, I never hear anybody talking about it in work or college.
12
Onion8513 days ago
+13
You are talking about it right now broski
13
dogsonbubnutt3 days ago
+55
people constantly b**** about it whenever it comes up
but also, its one of amazons highest rated shows. listnook isn't real life my dude.
55
Wyzzlex3 days ago
+33
Season 2 was a lot of fun!
33
Iron-Giants3 days ago
+12
Season 1 was a slog but Season 2 really found it's stride. Hope Season 3 continues the momentum.
12
SetentaeBolg3 days ago
+8
And yet, here we are.
8
Avarria5873 days ago
+24
I would argue The Wheel of Time show had more potential. This adaptation just seems mediocre all around. Not sure why they cancelled the former and kept this one.
24
longjumpingtote3 days ago
+36
> The Wheel of Time show had more potential
In part because it had well thought-out source material. There is no substitute for great writing.
36
gideon5133 days ago
+54
Now if only they had relied upon that source material
54
JigglesTheBiggles3 days ago
+31
The showrunner just used the IP to tell his own story. It was pretty clear from some of his interviews.
31
kf97mopa3 days ago
+5
It also seems that he got insane amounts of notes from Amazon.
5
_bones__3 days ago
+3
He also wanted more episodes for season 1, which it sorely needed, and was denied.
3
kf97mopa3 days ago
+8
IMO (regarding S1):
* Trying to spin it as anyone might be the Dragon was insanely stupid
* While I get cutting down the trip for Rand and Mat, they removed Thom Merillin almost entirely, and that was a major flaw.
* The whole love triangle bit with Perrin was stupid.
* The last episode was really bad. It seems that the writers didn’t understand what happened in that part of the book at all. I know the explanation for that comes way later in the series, but hopefully they had read the entire thing before starting.
(The reason Rand’s actions affect the battle at Tarwin’s Gap is that the Trollocs at the gap are only acting together because Ishy is controlling the Myrddraal. When Rand injures him, Ishy loses control and the various bands of Trollocs stop cooperating, which leads to their loss).
8
Right-Investment47592 days ago
+5
same for Witcher and they tried to cancel Cavill for not wanting to waste his time on a mediocre show.
5
ExIsStalkingMe3 days ago
+4
Thought-out source material? When was the last time you read Wheel of Time? I just finished the entirety of it, and I've never seen a less thought-out long series in my life. There are something like four books where the same subplot stays in the same thing (the girls in Ebou Dar). Perrin gets a really cool story throughout one of the books (basically the only time we had a satisfying arc within a single book outside of the first and the Sanderson finale trilogy) and then we don't see him again for another two or three with a POV chapter from his wife. In at least a few of them, Rand just sits and gets mad about dumb shit until there's a climax that's, at best, tangentially related to the things he was getting mad about
I liked the books quite a lot despite all the warts, but adapting those would require wholesale changes in pacing and rearranging of events. And the sheer amount of named characters that would need to be shifted around and combined to keep production from spiraling out of control is going to piss off the built-in audience of people who grew up on them. I just don't see Wheel of Time being successfully adapted simply because of the challenges involved with doing so
4
AcknowledgeableReal2 days ago
+2
Yeah, I love the Wheel of time, but the slog is famous. The books in the middle are 'rough'. There are great moments in all of them, but it is SO slow. We're talking 4-5 ~800 page books that many fans even say are hard work. Its not so bad now we have an ending, but as they were coming out.... eesh. 2-3 years of waiting, and then so little progress is made in each book.
2
ExIsStalkingMe2 days ago
+2
I'm incredibly happy that I was not reading along as they were coming out. Knowing I had an ending coming (written by a much more organized author even) was the only thing that kept me going through The Slog
2
Traditional_Bug_20463 days ago
+5
GoT early seasons vs later seasons
5
splitcroof923 days ago
+3
Wot season 1 and 2 are also shit tho
3
sheps3 days ago
+9
Yeah I feel WoT got canceled in large part because this show ate up the budget. Imagine this show didn't exist and WoT had it's budget from the start. That could have been something special. WoT is such a big IP that it could have easily warranted 20+ episodes per season but sadly that doesn't happen anymore.
9
Sonichu-3 days ago
+18
Wot got canceled because barely anyone was watching it.
Both shows were expensive as hell but RoP was getting over double the ratings.
18
LuinAelin3 days ago
+2
This is incorrect. It was cancelled because it's a co production and they couldn't come to an agreement for the next few seasons
2
Cavewoman223 days ago
+4
It had a lot of potential. And then they made it. The first 10 minutes were enough for me to realize they took a look at the source material and tossed it in the trashcan.
4
ThreeLittlePuigs3 days ago
+5
Funny I constantly see people who “never hear about the show” complain about it on Listnook
5
TimeBandits4kUHD3 days ago
+4
I like it but I’m pretty sure this sub will ban me if I complain about the dwarf women being clean shaven again and I can’t talk about the show without bringing that up so we’re at an impasse.
4
BallClamps3 days ago
+5
Wanna be friends? I talk about it (probably too much) to all my friends lol
5
teffarf3 days ago
+5
There are good things, there are bad things, in roughly equal proportions. It's technically well made but a bit too clean. The acting is uneven and so is the writing.
Every scenes with the hobbits is just bad, especially in season 2. Elf stuff is mostly good, as is dwarf stuff.
5
pleasegivemepatience3 days ago
+4
Same. Friends and I were all excited for the release of season 1, then we watched it… some of them have continued with the series but no one brings it up anymore and I never watched season 2. I’ll probably never go back.
Same with HotD, lost interest really quickly it just wasn’t good enough. Too much reliance on my affinity with the previous work, wasn’t good enough to stand on its own.
4
GreyRobb3 days ago
+144
If you had told 10 yr old me about 40 yrs ago that one day there would be a live action TV show set in middle earth following events in the 2nd Age, and the production company was blowing like a billion dollars per season on it, AND I would have absolutely no desire to watch it? I'd have told you that you were 100% crazy. Certifiable.
But here we are.
144
ChewsOnRocks2 days ago
+15
It’s not even that it doesn’t meet Tolkien fans expectations either. It’s just a really poorly told story. None of the characters have depth or make me feel invested in their story whatsoever. It feels like I’m being taken through bullet points of lore that were fleshed out just enough into a coherent plot to consider it a story, but it has a very unnatural vibe to it. And what’s sad is that I’m not a Tolkien fan but I can still tell they are just completely butchering some very rich lore that could’ve been very special on screen had this been done well at all.
15
GreyRobb2 days ago
+6
Agreed. I don’t hate it because the lore changed. I hate it because it’s a horribly written, produced, and directed tv show, and the ways they changed the lore move in service to that suckage.
6
Kazzak_Falco2 days ago
+4
>coherent plot
Honestly I think that phrase doesn't at all describe this show. It is one of the most contrived stories I've ever seen. The only way the actions of characters make sense is if you assume they've read the script.
4
Ill-Muscle9453 days ago
+11
Its just so... bland. Luckily, season 2 had parts that were slightly better than season 1, but also had parts that were so much worse.
The big battle scene in season 2 was some of the most amateur and lame shit I've ever seen.
11
Least1Difficulty2 days ago
+2
Man, that elven calvary charge that just halts at the last second, I mean why? It was like the writers really wanted a Pelennor fields type calvary charge but didn't want a calvary charge in the story. So, they had a fake out Pelennor fields charge.
2
CarltonBanks1653 days ago
+611
Amazon prime threaten to release season 3
611
TheUmbrellaMan13 days ago
+163
It's sunk cost fallacy. Yeah, the first season had giant viewership but it only had 37% completion rate (at 37% competion rate Netflix cancels their shows). The second season reportedly had near 60% drop in viewership compared to S1 premier.
Amazon Prime is stuck with this. They are contractually obligated for 5 seasons. They paid a fortune to make this. They have to finish this show no matter what. What a waste.
163
BlueAndYellowTowels3 days ago
+119
Personally, I don’t consider it a waste. I’m tired of services dropping shows after like 2 seasons.
I like this series. I know I’m getting at least 5 seasons and that’s awesome.
119
maeynor3 days ago
+9
I like it too. I don’t take the accuracy of the lore so seriously despite being a lifelong fan. And all my friends in colleagues (dudes in our 30s) also like it. It’s not perfect but it’s certainly not soulless. Some people just can’t enjoy anything anymore and I’ve started taking the opposite approach the older I get.
My wife doesn’t like LOTR really but she cries every episode in this, so something is working.
9
tenth3 days ago
+13
I'm surprised you weren't downvoted to hell for this opinion. I would give the haters some credibility if I didn't just constantly see whining and bitching about basically EVERY SINGLE tv show these days.
13
DoingItForEli3 days ago
+34
I love that for them though, for a variety of reasons, chiefly being that I enjoy the show. I'm a simple man with simple pleasures.
34
Historical_Fan_87993 days ago
+399
This show makes me sad, which is honestly a lot worse than just flat out hating it.
399
Armand9x3 days ago
+228
The LotR slop will continue until morale improves.
228
Aliensinmypants3 days ago
+62
Seriously, we got this and then at least 2 movies coming out that no one asked for.
62
Armand9x3 days ago
+70
Who has a better story than ~~Bran the broken~~ Gollum??
70
Fit-Switch-57953 days ago
+20
Probably some lesbian.
20
TomTypesTallTales3 days ago
+21
Don’t talk about Faramir that way!
21
Fit-Switch-57953 days ago
+17
"Ugh, she'll do," sighed Eowyn, shield maiden of Rohan.
17
TomTypesTallTales3 days ago
+6
AO3 in shambles
6
pikpikcarrotmon3 days ago
+32
Lord of the Rings: The ~~Search~~ Hunt for ~~More Money~~ Gollum
32
Dan__Glesak3 days ago
+13
We’re not just doing this for money. We’re doing this for a shit load of money!!
13
RaVashaan3 days ago
+3
Seriously, that Gollum video game bombed so hard it put the game studio behind it out of business. And they are making a movie about Gollum that takes place *in the exact same time period* as the game.
What are they thinking.
3
Stupidstuff10013 days ago
+16
Because if they just hired a h******* fan of the source material and didn’t let upper management tinker with it. The show could be really good. It just has so many stupid little things in it that add up and ruin it.
16
sameseksure2 days ago
+2
I'm not sure about that though - fans of franchises often have horrific ideas. Having encyclopedic knowledge of an IP does not a good writer make, necessarily
That said, a h******* fan would surely come up with something better than these writers
2
Aliensinmypants3 days ago
+15
It's just a weird concept for a show about a multi-million dollar fanfic of an established world... I don't know who it's supposed to be for
15
ParticulateSplatter3 days ago
+11
I mean, it's obviously supposed to be for LotR fans. They've just not done a very good job of it
11
Aliensinmypants3 days ago
+16
It's weird because the only people I know who still watch or like it are people who aren't big tolkien fans.
16
Historical_Owl_16353 days ago
+3
Unfortunately for the Tolkien fans there’s probably more LOTR fans who’ve never read the books than have.
3
DJFrankyFrank3 days ago
+4
And that the exact reason it's so meh.
Tolkien fans, like myself and my friends are just underwhelmed by it. Lots of unnecessary additions. Fast tracking certain plot lines. Plus it just doesn't have the natural "Lord of the Rings" feel.
From a pure storyline (not connected to LoTR), it's not THAT bad. But having a masterpiece of an established universe, be butchered, is rather upsetting.
Like the very first thing that pops into my mind, is the treatment of Elves. Elves are supposed to be ethereal beings, infinitely wise but also arrogant. We see that in LoTR, and in the Hobbit. But in RoP, they feel way more human.
Secondly, Galadriel being the main character. She is mentioned in the Silimarillion, but she isn't the catalyst of anything, let alone the main character. Same with Elrond. They were put in, solely for familiarity, that's it. They shouldn't be the focus of the show.
For somebody that doesn't know the story, it's not that bad. It's just a creative interpretation. But for the die hard fans, it is lackluster, it feels soulless, and isn't faithful to the original material.
I have had a lot more leniency with the show than others, because I know there are behind the scenes shenanigans that prevent certain things from happening. So it's just upsetting to see one of my favorite IPs be treated like such. And even more upsetting that I never even finished the second season, and haven't felt the need to finish it, which is almost unheard of for me. I always at least finish the season I'm watching, to see if it gets better.
**TL:DR:** As an independent series, it's not that bad. But linking it to one of the most popular series of all time, that has the entire universe fleshed out, and having it be altered feels pretty bad. Having background characters becoming the main characters of the series, was certainly a choice. And changing details that didn't need to be changed at all, pushed away the core fanbase
4
VendetaBereta3 days ago
+106
Reading this thread, you'd never guess over 55 million people watched season 2 in the first month.
106
dwpea663 days ago
+23
You telling me that the opinions of a few sublistnooks don't reflect those of the billions of people that exist outside of here?
23
Kiltmanenator3 days ago
+29
Just as popular as season 4 of *The Boys* but people would have you believe nobody watches this
29
bignasty4103 days ago
+466
Well I like it and am excited. Seems not many others are.
466
TomBirkenstock3 days ago
+119
It's not perfect, but there is plenty to like and even love about this show. I'm happy to spend another season basking in the glorious landscapes while Bear McCreary's gorgeous score blares from my speakers.
119
defiancy3 days ago
+20
I liked the second season more than the 1st and honestly if they cut the harfoot stuff out the show will be much better for it. The most interesting stuff is the Elf and Dwarven stuff.
The sacking of the Elf city at the end of last season and Sauron f****** with Celembrimbor in general were highlights for me.
The stuff with the Numenoreans, well I just hope it gets better.
20
Irishfafnir3 days ago
+6
The proto-hobbits definitely need to go; they are very poorly written and disconnected from the rest of the storylines. In a show where there's already many different POV's the extra screentime would be helpful for other locations/characters
6
kezzyk3 days ago
+2
I like the harfoot stuff!
2
FearLeadsToAnger3 days ago
+145
Its watchable, if you arent particularly picky and just like fantasy stuff.
Which describes me.
145
fnord_fenderson3 days ago
+18
I’m a huge Tolkien fan and I hate Rings of Power. I could never get through the first Wheel of Time book, and I enjoyed the show, especially the later seasons. My ex hated Wheel of Time because she’s a huge fan of the books. I think you hit the mark here. As generic fantasy show, RoP is probably a lot more enjoyable than as a Tolkien adaptation.
18
FriuliDylan3 days ago
+3
It’s why I refuse to watch shows that have a general consensus of it being unfaithfully adapted. Ever since WoT I cannot enjoy it if I know the book fans are getting shafted.
3
tequilasauer3 days ago
+49
I thought Season 2 was a huge improvement. The first season was pretty bad, though. I'll stick with it after last season and see how it goes.
49
CountryCaravan3 days ago
+25
The Celebrimbor plotline made the show for me. Took one of the more belittled aspects of the legendarium, played it as straight as you possibly can, and succeeded in creating something with genuine gravitas. Hoping season 3 has as strong of a central plot to carry it.
25
Toasted_Sugar_Crunch3 days ago
+10
I rewatched S1 and it's actually better in the second viewing. It's really confusing during the first watch but after you get to know the characters, the second watch allows you to focus on the beautiful cinematography and set designs.
10
Steelcity2133 days ago
+31
I heard season 2 was pretty good. I wonder if its a case where it started bad so everyone dumps on it even when the quality picked up.
31
RecommendsMalazan3 days ago
+9
Yes, but I don't think it actually started that bad. It was fine, IMO.
But when people go into it looking for bad, then that's what they'll find.
9
dddonnanoble3 days ago
+23
Me too, I’ve enjoyed both seasons so far.
23
Homesterkid3 days ago
+11
Same. For a fantasy nerd like me who isn’t super picky and a*** about things, it’s exactly what I like. Love LOTR and this show is giving me more of that
11
junglespycamp3 days ago
+10
I enjoy it. Which is fine. Better than making hating it my entire personality like many people.
10
AK14413 days ago
+2
I don't understand how you can hate a show. If i don't like a show i stop watching and talking about it. I don't go on listnook so i can tell everyone how much i hate it.
2
Elbeef13 days ago
+9
My wife and I have enjoyed seasons 1 and 2. It’s definitely very slow compared to the movies, but I enjoy shows with a lot of world building. I hope it pays off and we get this season of next season with more action since a lot has been built up.
9
CatGirl_ToeBeans3 days ago
+2
I didn’t quite enjoy watching it but I kinda became attached to specific story arcs.
Like when reading the first 2 thrones books I was far more excited to get back to a certain characters perspective.
This show kinda suffers from having too large of a cast of uninteresting characters in my opinion.
Where I kinda wouldn’t even mind just fast forwarding to get to the character I want to watch.
I’d argue it’s the weakest of any large budget series I’ve watched but I wouldn’t say it’s bad.
Just isn’t great.
Meanwhile shogun had me foaming at the mouth.
So maybe I’m just into smaller scale these days.
2
BeholdThePalehorse133 days ago
+21
It’s better than most shows out these days. I love the series for what it is, I do not hate it for what it is not. YMMV.
21
Underwater_Karma3 days ago
+6
the fact that "new season of show will premier in X year" is news in itself is a testament to how messed up TV has become.
6
zaczacx3 days ago
+4
I thought they cancelled this show
4
Alaminox3 days ago
+104
Great. The Celebrimbor/Annatar stuff in season 2 was amazing and I really enjoyed the fall of Eregion.
104
Tough-Abalone-69003 days ago
+32
Loved both seasons, excited for this
32
EatsRats3 days ago
+45
I enjoy this series. Season 1 was mondo-slow but I liked the setup and the visuals are incredible. Season 2 was a lot more exciting and fun. Looking forward to season 3.
45
confidentvertibrate3 days ago
+19
I don’t get all the hate. I enjoyed both seasons as well.
I feel wheel of time was even better - very sad they killed that show.
19
Sleepy_Azathoth3 days ago
+60
I like this show, really, I do.
Season 2 was a vast improvement so I'm excited.
60
MadmanMarkMiller3 days ago
+3
The only thing I hear about RoP is that _X_ season is in the works or releasing at _Y_ time." Nothing about if it's good or bad, nothing about the characters, nothing about the setting.
I'm genuinely convinced _no one_ watches this show and Amazon keeps buying ad space for it regarding the upcoming seasons.
3
LevelHorn27173 days ago
+22
Yay! I enjoy this show quite a lot. Great costumes, decent mystery and twists, it’s high fantasy and we just don’t get enough of that in live action these days. F*** the haters.
22
akselmonrose3 days ago
+6
How are we getting a season 3 of this show? It’s not been very good.
6
Rollinthrulife3 days ago
+6
"But why?" -lotr fans
6
thewonderswiss3 days ago
+8
I love this show, no part of me thought it would be canceled ,just give me a release date. These comments are not it, I can understand the wheel of time, not for me. But we need more fantasy and sci-fi shows on TV that aren't getting canceled.
8
Prudent_Scratch37983 days ago
+40
I like this show a lot. I'm tuning in .
40
stanwich3 days ago
+15
Yeah the scene where the illusion drops in season 2 was really good
15
smurfslayer03 days ago
+19
I have no idea why you are getting downvoted lol. That scene was a highlight of the season and very well done. The behind the scenes of how it was accomplished is also very cool.
19
monkmullen3 days ago
+17
Love the movies, zero attachment to the books, and I think this show rules.
17
realblush3 days ago
+13
Really really loved season 2, kinda excited to see if they manage to improve the quality even more
13
Voltae3 days ago
+2
I know it's an important part of the story, but if we never had to sit through another sequence set in Numenor, I'd be happy.
I did enjoy the rest of it and am looking forward to S3.
2
Sapowski_Casts_Quen3 days ago
+2
Which sucks, Numenor had potential. Looks great, at least
2
Toasted_Sugar_Crunch3 days ago
+7
I watched season 1 and was mildly confused b/c all that lore was new to me but I enjoyed it. S2 was even better. I then rewatched S1 and thought it was amazing.
I really enjoyed the characters, like young Elrond and his friendship with the dwarves. The world building was amazing, especially the proto-hobbits and the massive dwarven cities. The cast were also particularly great, especially Nori and the mysterious wizard.
I honestly think this show lives up to the LOTR movies.
7
mrnicegy263 days ago
+18
Its fascinating how the two hugely expensive spinoffs of two of the major fantasy franchises (Rings of Power and House of the Dragon) barely seem to have an impact on the larger pop culture despite their parent series being behemoths.
18
SirRichardLove3 days ago
+54
But knight of the seven kingdoms is f****** amazing!
54
Tolichowki3 days ago
+20
KOTSK has main characters you can root for. Everyone in HOTD seemed to be f****** vile in the first 9 episodes. I stopped watching at that point. Most people like stories where they can root for someone.
20
WalidfromMorocco3 days ago
+15
The issue with HOTD is that the writers cannot write political intrigue.
15
teffarf3 days ago
+3
I can think of one man who definitely can write political intringue that also knows a thing or two about this universe...
3
WalidfromMorocco3 days ago
+5
And he was sidelined on the show haha.
5
bensonr23 days ago
+3
I think you have a point. That said the thing that annoys me the most is the writing makes Rhaenerya out to be the hero. My understanding in the books she is just a much a vilain as the greens and the point of the book is everyone is just out for their own power. I would be much more into watching that.
3
MathematicianKey96383 days ago
+7
HOTD destroyed their own show trying to make the audience root for someone in S2.
7
tenth3 days ago
+2
It also has no real impact on the larger pop culture. So by this person's metric, that's apparently a failure?
2
Fire_Otter3 days ago
+6
HOTD was big when it came out
There was a lot of frustration with Season 2 But it still got huge views
it remains to be seen if Season 2's unpopularity has an impact on season 3
6
TheUndetectedHero3 days ago
+18
I don't know... first season of HOTD was huge. Second season was shit and no one cares anymore. Maybe, and it's a stretch, AKOTSK restored a lil bit of faith in the franchise, but not enough to be remotely excited about season 3.
18
HurinGaldorson3 days ago
+11
This \^. S1 of HotD was excellent, and restored my hope for the franchise.
S2 though didn't have Paddy Considine as its heart, and struggled with pacing, even before we realized the disastrous decision by Zaslav to cut out the finale would compound the pacing problems even more. This is saying nothing of the weird direction the showrunners decided (against Martin's wishes) to take the Alicent-Rhaenyra relationship.
11
tenth3 days ago
+3
I'm sorry, can you tell me some series that are FOLLOW-UPS to an already behemoth pop cultural moment that DO make a giant impact?
The first show/series/film is the impact. It's the new and hot and fresh. Why would the follow ups and spinoffs do the same? The specific impact and splash has already been made.
Literally the only example I can think of is Better Call Saul and that didn't really make a splash outside of film/tv fans. I don't see it being referenced in other things when Breaking Bad would fill the same refence-spot.
3
Massive_Weiner3 days ago
+9
There’s no great mystery to it.
They’re both bad, so people don’t really care. The originals were good, so people cared.
9
longjumpingtote3 days ago
+2
It's super common. Hard to make good TV. Long list of examples: After MASH, Archie Bunker's Place, Galactica 1980, the new Frasier w/o Niles, The Golden Palace (Golden Girls "sequel"), Joey, Three's a Crowds, Tabitha, That 80s Show, The Ropers, Joanie Loves Chachi, The Tortellis (Cheers), Baywatch Nights, etc.
2
djackieunchaned3 days ago
+9
Thought season 2 was a big jump in quality, excited to see if they keep moving in that way. I know this show isnt a home run but it’s pretty and it’s LOTR and thats honestly enough for me
9
Podge2143 days ago
+14
I bailed mid season 2.
Hollywood execs do not respect the source material. They get the rights and garbage puke their shitty storylines out onto it.
14
Aliensinmypants3 days ago
+14
I mean it was known since before the show started that they didn't have rights to anything outside what's in the LotR trilogy and appendix. That's why the show just feels like a loosely adapted fanfic
14
nicknack243 days ago
+10
I understand being a lore purist but season 2 was pretty good and even had a few memorable moments. If the show can maintain that level of quality than it's better than most fantasy shows.
10
iwellyess3 days ago
+7
I love LOTR, but this show was so bad I couldn’t even hate watch it! The writing is excruciating.
7
dogsonbubnutt3 days ago
+8
> I couldn’t even hate watch it! The writing is excruciating.
then uhhh how do you know?
8
Jagerius3 days ago
+2
Take your time :D
2
galaxyapp3 days ago
+2
But no more wheel of time or expanse.
Sad noises
2
-Morsmordre-3 days ago
+2
Please don't
2
JTLS1803 days ago
+2
I am a big fan of this show, the ending to Season 2 was rather an anti climax but still enjoy the show. Looking forward to Season 3 🙂
2
Drafen3 days ago
+2
Ew
2
Ancient-Dust30773 days ago
+2
imagine if this show had a fan base like stranger things
2
Strychnine853 days ago
+2
Maybe the elves will speak elvish in this one.
2
biggiesmoke732 days ago
+2
Despite the show being a complete pile of shit, what’s with everything nowadays looking so clean… to the point where it looks really weird
2
Amateur_Hour_931 day ago
+2
Listnook is the only place I see people speak badly about this show
2
ElasticPlatypus3 days ago
+22
Building your own space program is one thing, but the biggest indicator of late stage capitalism is that Jeff Bezos and Amazon continue to burn hundreds of millions of dollars on a show that the general public has responded to with what can at best be described as “steadfast indifference”
22
NoTitleChamp3 days ago
+17
The internet is not the general public.
17
Ill-Muscle9453 days ago
+3
The majority of people in the "general public" that I've talked to respond to me mentioning the LOTR show with "Oh, theres a LOTR show?"
3
Seraphayel3 days ago
+26
A Lord of the Rings show getting trumped by Fallout or The Boys (which are way, way smaller IPs) is enough proof of the general public caring about Rings of Power as much as *the internet*.
26
natalie_mf_portman3 days ago
+8
Yayyy I love this show
8
icchansan3 days ago
+5
w00t I totally forgot this show XD
5
RealLunarSlayer3 days ago
+4
but why, havent we suffered enough
4
Monkey-Tamer3 days ago
+4
The second season was much improved over the first. I didn't have anything better to watch so the wife and I made it through season 1 by some miracle. I haven't read Tolkien in so long I remember only bits of the lore it's based on, so I'm not upset at any changes. I'll watch season 3, but probably not on release.
199 Comments