Thousands protest across Israel calling to end war

And most of Israel is maga in that analogy.

But he is avoiding justice over the Epstein files *anyway*, war or no war. There is simply no desire or ability to make him face justice under the current regime. I think this reflexive, simplistic reduction of each of Trump's actions to the Epstein files is doing the world a massive disservice. The Epstein files are already in the news every single day, Pam Bondi is going to get deposed under oath on April 18th and Articles of Impeachment have been drawn up against her. *Nobody is going to forget about them*, but equally, nothing will happen while the current administration is in power. At the same time, there are dozens of much *much* worse things than the Epstein files that Trump should be held accountable for and that would have a much higher chance of success. I don't understand why people are so hyper-focused on the Epstein files, when people are dying in American concentration and torture camps, when the regime is murdering American citizens at point-blank range, when Trump is dragging the world into global war, when Trump is putting structures into place to steal the midterms, when America will be the epicentre of the next global pandemic, when America commits war crimes all over the world, when tens of millions of Americans are losing what little healthcare they've got, when America is accelarating the climate catastrophe, when 14 million African people will die to the lack of USAID funding, when America's war will lead to mass starvation due to lack of fertiliser, and so on. I doubt Trump thinks much at all about the Epstein files, to be honest, and why would he? That's one thing he's already completely shielded from, and nothing bad can happen to him. All of the other things would be legitimate attack vectors in the here and now, but nobody seems to care much about them, because apparently, all of them are "just deflections from the Epstein files".

People keep saying that, yet... He would have weaseled out of that like every other transgression so far. It doesn't make sense I think doubling down on this rhetoric is threatening to obscure some of the other reasons he (and more importantly, the people behind him pulling the strings) may or may not have to pull this shit. E.g. the Venezuela coup was essentially a resource grab, him quite literally starving the people of Cuba so they capitulate is a resource grab, etc, etc. And that isn't to say he's some 4d chess mastermind or anything (he isn't) but that we should be looking at other angles.

Exactly. You haven’t seen war until you’ve seen an FPV drone fly straight into the a****** of a Russian crouched down taking a shit, and that be followed up by a recon drone showing his blown out ass looking like a giant red flower. Yeah that was an actual video going around about a week ago. It’s f****** nuts what we see these days.

and only a small minority of people frequent those places still, and most will get it through the news media today as well as then.

Or worse, failing to get the kill, and then the soldier crawling to a drone because their feet got blown off so they don't have to suffer for days. There was that North Korean one where some guy was crying for his mom cuz he was bleeding out.

how many people in the west do you think see those without specifically seeking out that type of content? cause I know I haven't.

It won't be long before we start issuing grenades with single use remote 360° cameras imbedded. Need to confirm the kills and what was in the bunker before they blew it.

i am guessing you meant accessible? acceptable puts a whole different theme to your post.

Russia doesn't have a state interest in making a bunch of them. Ukraine won't give up because there's a bunch of videos of them getting bombed. The US absolutely might, especially since trumps own base doesn't even want this. The lesson from the Vietnam war is to make the American public so disgusted by the war that the government has to leave, new videos every day of soldiers getting blown up would have been the vietcongs wet dream

You can't surpress that

Classic listnook take

But governments are also only standing because people give them license.

I know there are definitely Israelis who hold awful awful beliefs. That said, I am always skeptical of videos like you describe. The creators have the ability to pick and choose who they show in the video and nobody makes those videos without wanting to prove some point and, thus, a bias for filtering the footage. I know many Israelis (through research collaboration). The predominant belief amongst them is that the wars (both with Iran and in Gaza) need to stop, that many in their government / military are committing awful crimes in these wars, and that peace and diplomacy should be the only ways forward. I also know some people who joke about all the beachfront property in Gaza that will be available to Israelis soon, though, this is a small minority. Of course, academics tend to be more progressive and humanist in all countries, so this sample is also biased. Point being, the views of Israelis is much more nuanced and complex than videos like the one you mentioned depict.

Outright cheering on the IRGC? A small but vocal minority. Excusing the IRGC and trying to both-sides them to downplay how bad they are and white wash their crimes? Unfortunately a much larger group.

Because Israel is a US ally and Iran isn't, speaking from a pretty regular US persons perspective I think. I hate the Iranian regime. They regularly commit atrocities, are a straight up theocracy, and are oppressive of their people. But we also aren't allied with them, helped fund them*, or gone to war in the middle east on their behalf. Holding your allies to a standard you don't hold your geopolitical enemies to is not some conspiracy or lack of knowledge. I just want to not support a country doing war crimes, want my country to stop doing war crimes, and not crown ourselves the world police. If there was an international coalition that we went into Iran with I still wouldn't love it, but at least it would be understandable. There's a reason no other country is willing to go as far as the US is in regards to Israel, and I just want us to be closer to that.

The antisemites and radical pro-Hamas types would be happy to see Israelis gunning each other down, though

It’s not a good guys vs bad guys situation, both sides perpetuate terrible things against people who have no way to fight back without being erased from life. The Iranian government slaughters their own, Israel uses hundreds of gigantic bombs on populated areas regularly. No one has the moral high ground here and the 99% of people just trying to live a decent human life are being fucked over and by those with monopolies on violence having it out at the end of the day. Clearly the missiles and air strikes approach to peaceful coexistence is not working out so well

> Obviously theres a different generation and most people were kids in 2011 that post here now so wouldnt remember it. Is that anything like how most people that post here aren't aware of how much of the Israeli state is literally just the normalization and installation of Irgun, Lehi, Haganah, Kach, and other terrorist groups as more formal parts of the government years and years ago, and how that plays a massive role in things like Bibi's ongoing support for Hamas to buoy himself politically, and constant escalating support of settler violence? I think it's less people making up shit, and more that people are aware of the larger history, and which parts have been purposefully forgotten despite their influence consistently ringing out for generations. America's role in destabilizing Iran leading to the current government also is kind of important. It's possible to hate Iran killing it's own people, and also hate more powerful countries referring to constant threats of bombing the same country as "mowing the grass" even after bombing a school, but I'm old enough to have been taught two wrongs don't make a right.

Surely you can't be as naive as to think that Israel doesn't provide support to certain proxy groups in the region?

Had. It got bombed.

Yes and to be clear that drop is not because "war is bad." The drop is because "holy shit, their missles can actually hit us."

Thank you. Thought it would be lower, but this makes sense too.

77,303,568 people voted for Trump. As of July 1, 2023 there were 262,083,034 citizens eligible to vote in the United States. He may have won the popular vote, but he did not receive votes from even a third of the country that could have voted for him. Him winning the "popular vote" does not mean most people approve of him.