ListNook

In our previous two blog posts, [u/Amg137](/user/Amg137) talked about [why we’re redesigning Listnook on desktop](https://www.listnook.com/r/blog/comments/7ul5k9/hey_were_here_to_talk_about_that_desktop_redesign/) and [how moderation and community styling will work in it](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/7xjt6g/because_its_valentines_day_heres_a_longwinded/). Today, I’m here as a hu~~man sacrifice m~~ember of Listnook’s Design team \(surprise: designers actually work at Listnook!\) to talk about how we’ve approached the desktop redesign and what we’ve learned from your feedback along the way. When approaching the redesign, we all learned early on that this wasn’t just about making Listnook more usable, accessible, and efficient; it was also about learning how to interact, adapt, and communicate with the world’s largest, most passionate and genuine community of users. # Better every (feedback) loop Every team working on this project has its share of longtime listnookors—whether it's Product, Design, Engineering, or Community. To say that this has been the most challenging \(and rewarding\) project of our careers is an understatement. Over the past year we’ve been running surveys internally and externally. We’ve conducted video conferences with first\-time users, listnookors on their 10th Cake Day, moderators, and lurkers. Not to mention an extremely helpful community of alpha testers. You all have shaped the way we do every part of our jobs, from brainstorming and creating designs to building features and collecting feedback. Just when we thought we had the optimal approach to a new feature or legacy functionality, you came in and told us where we were wrong and, in most cases, explained to us with passion and clarity why a given feature was important to you—like [making Classic and Compact views fill your screen](https://media1.tenor.com/images/782ba18e2ff1bb49a36ade1ab90f2869/tenor.gif?itemid=7549364) \(coming soon\). *Processing img uk5t2xyv27j01...* # What? Listnook is evolving! Listnook is not a one\-size\-fits\-all experience. It’s a site based on choice and evolution. There are millions of you, spread across different devices, joining Listnook at different times, using the site in widely varying ways, and we're trying to build in a way that supports all of you. So, as we figured out the best way to do that, these are the themes that guided us along the way: * Maintain and extend what makes Listnook, Listnook * [Give communities tools](https://www.listnook.com/r/announcements/comments/7xjt6g/because_its_valentines_day_heres_a_longwinded/) that are simple, intuitive, and flexible—for styling, moderating, communicating sublistnook rules, and customizing how each community organizes its content. * Make our desktop experience more welcoming * Lower the barrier to entry for new listnookors, while providing choice \(e.g., different viewing options: [Card](https://i.redd.it/et5p9bxbhnd01.gif) / [Classic](https://i.redd.it/q3ysf2phhnd01.gif) / [Compact](https://i.redd.it/4egg3y5lhnd01.gif)\) and familiarity to all users. * Design a foundation for the future * Establish a design foundation that encourages user insight and allows our team to make improvements quickly, release after release. * Keep content at the forefront * We want to make sure viewing, posting, and interacting with content is easy by keeping our UI and brand elements minimal. # Asking Listnook As we moved from setting high\-level goals to getting into the actual design work, we knew it would be a long process even with the learnings we gained from the initial look\-see. We know that our first attempt is never the best, and the only way we can improve is by talking directly with all of you. It’s hard to summarize everything we built as a result of these conversations, but here are a few examples: * Navigation: We wanted to make Listnook simpler to navigate for everyone, so after receiving feedback from our alpha testers, we developed a “hamburger menu” on the left sidebar that made it easy to do everything users wanted it to: quickly find your favorite sublistnooks and sublistnooks you moderate, and [filter all of your subscriptions just by typing in a few letters](https://i.redd.it/1is6htgra3j01.gif). * Posting flow: The current interface for submitting text and link posts \(aka “Create a post”\) can be confusing for new listnookors, so we wanted to simplify it and make some long overdue improvements that would address a wide variety of use cases. While users liked the more intuitive look and formatting options we introduced, they gave us additional feedback that led to changes like submit validation, clearly displayed sublistnook rules, and options for adding spoiler tags, NSFW tags, and post flair directly when you’re creating. * Listings pages: We know from RES and our mobile apps that many users like an expanded Card View while many longtime users prefer our classic look, so we decided early on that the redesign should offer choice in how users view Listnook. We’ve received a lot of feedback on how each view could be improved \(e.g., reducing whitespace in Classic\), and we’re working on shipping fixes. The list of user\-inspired changes goes on and on \(and we’re expecting a lot more *i*teration as we expand our testing pool\), but this is how we’ve worked through design challenges so far. # It’s [never over](https://media.giphy.com/media/fQvND2Wo28q9a/giphy.gif) The redesign isn’t finished at “GA” \(General Availability, or as I like to call it, “Time to Breathe for One Day Before We Get Back to Work”\). With this post, we wanted to share some context on our approach, thank everyone who's participated in r/redesign so far \(THANK YOU!\), and let you know we will continue to engage with you on a daily basis to understand how you’re responding to what we’re building. Over the next several weeks, we'll be expanding the number of users who have access to the alpha \(yes, you will be able to opt out if you prefer the current desktop look\), hearing what you think, and updating all of you as we make more changes. In the meantime, I'll be sticking around in the comments for a bit to answer questions and [invite all of you to listen to Huey Lewis with me](https://youtu.be/J08ZwySCoJ8?t=84). EDIT: Thank you for all your comments, feedback, and suggestions so far. I gotta get back to the whole working\-on\-the\-redesign thing, but I’ll be jumping back into the comments when I can over the rest of the day.

194 Comments

V2Blast Mar 1, 2018 +1750

> like making Classic and Compact views fill your screen (coming soon). :D I'm looking forward to (hopefully) more design improvements. Thanks for listening to the feedback.

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hueylewisandthesnoos Mar 1, 2018 +723

Seriously, thanks for being so engaged with feedback and the community [u/V2Blast](/user/V2Blast)! You all have been tremendously helpful in making the continual improvements!

723

[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +2614

Not spamming users to use the listnook app when they are trying to view the site on mobile would also be nice. I really don't want to click the prompt away every single page, I am aware that the app exists and I can decide myself when I want to use the app.

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TheGoldenHand Mar 1, 2018 +114

Also against iOS style guidelines to circumvent the API call for the App Store download with a secondary banner. Although its basically not enforceable on a website. A website this big should know better and implement best practices. They don't happen on i.listnook.com, but constantly appear on the other mobile versions.

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[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +34

Also, it makes me laugh when for some reason clicking on a link to a Listnook thread in the Listnook app bring you to a browser, where it asks you to use the Listnook app. You guys should also definitely fix that problem, it can get really annoying sometimes. Thank you!

shtbrcks Mar 1, 2018 +355

So much this. If I was willing to use the app, why would I even be on the mobile page in the first place. EDIT: omg THANKS for the gold! It's my first and gold on those requests shows how important this is to the users.

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puterTDI Mar 1, 2018 +192

I do use the app, and there are things the app cannot do (plugins, some mod tools, etc) and so I have to go to the website. It's annoying as hell to be spammed to use the app that I just had to leave because it doesn't do what I need. I wish there was a "one time" question per known user. Once you're asked you're not asked again.

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ikcaj Mar 1, 2018 +43

A thousand times this! I'm currently confined to mobile only due to having extremely poor internet service that often simply cannot handle loading a regular website, much less one that has pop-ups, banners, etc. For me, the mobile app is a godsend because it works (most of the time), but when I do need to go to the main site, I spend an eternity waiting for it to load, begin to do what I went there for, only to have that stupid "Try the mobile app" thing appear and half the time it crashes my page completely. It's not Listnook's fault I have virtually no Internet but that prompt certainly makes my life a lot more difficult.

CouchMountain Mar 1, 2018 +69

There actually is. In the top right on the website in the menu when logged in uncheck the “ask for app” or whatever.

Resource1138 Mar 1, 2018 +30

F****** hell, I want to find the person who developed that prompt, dress them like a frog and shove them in a chimpanzee cage, with hilarious and disgusting results. Goddammit, I hate that popup more than I hate ... well, anything I can think of since I'm blinded by rage at the moment.

ganlet20 Mar 1, 2018 +116

I'm in disbelief, the white space issue has finally been addressed. I had to switch over to double check. For those, who aren't in the loop. Alpha has had a serious wasted whitespace issue for months and months. We've all begged and pleaded for it to be addressed. We've created stylish scripts to try and make it usable. We've calculated and posted the whitespace percentage for the redesign vs standard listnook. We've posted screenshot after screenshots illustrating it. The Admin response has been at best pathetic. Majority of the time they just ignore it or make a comment like "Research dictates this is the correct amount of white space". Thanks for fixing this. I've been sharpening my pitchforks for months, waiting for the beta release where it would be fair game.

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mxzf Mar 1, 2018 +12

I guess changes after the community begs and pleads for many months is better than never fixing the issue, though it's still not quite confidence-inspiring.

ganlet20 Mar 2, 2018 +11

When it comes to listnook, I'm a pretty crotchety, grumpy old man. I've been here for 10 yrs and I don't want it to lose what made it great. I know the spirit and community of listnook and redesigns have a nasty habit of losing that. I remember when I first got added to alpha. I would go on these incredibly long rants about how they're killing the spirit of listnook and replacing it with a fisher price edition of mobile retardation. Then I realize, it's just a website and I need to go climb a mountain or something. There are still some decent size issues left to be addressed but I have high hopes we'll end up with something that is noticeably better than it's predecessor.

Underclock Mar 2, 2018 +36

> like making Classic and Compact views fill your screen (coming soon). What does this mean exactly? I clicked on the link expecting a screen shot as an example, it was just a gif of a guy saying yes

Xheotris Mar 1, 2018 +24

Just keep the visual design minimal. Listnook is a pleasure to browse because the lists are compact and spare. Don't give me miles of padding, don't auto-expand images. I want to be able to scan a dozen entries before I swipe on mobile.

hueylewisNthenews Mar 1, 2018 +6254

I did a complete double take when I saw the account that posted this - I wasn't quite sure how I could have gotten Listnook admin Red on my name!

6254

hueylewisandthesnoos Mar 1, 2018 +3622

[Wait](https://i.imgur.com/4MmX4zh.mp4).

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hueylewisNthenews Mar 1, 2018 +2448

[Yup.](https://i.imgur.com/X3nm1gA.gif)

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hueylewisandthesnoos Mar 1, 2018 +1666

[Just getting to know each other.](https://media2.giphy.com/media/l3fZMRXPyZOud948U/giphy.gif)

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hueylewisNthenews Mar 1, 2018 +1194

[Will you share the fancy sauce?](https://media.giphy.com/media/3owzW9dSArdpyWvKtq/giphy.gif)

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2th Mar 1, 2018 +599

So when are you two going to get bunk beds?

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hueylewisNthenews Mar 1, 2018 +642

[When?](https://giphy.com/gifs/yrFrXTTTcHIY0/html5)

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hueylewisandthesnoos Mar 1, 2018 +588

[Already built. ](https://assets-auto.rbl.ms/bb41cdda75433f9aaaad6ab13a43b7d3023ac42093dd8d57f8215b74224e6d71)

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hueylewisNthenews Mar 1, 2018 +568

[What could go wrong?](https://i.imgur.com/qsbPWSJ.mp4)

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hueylewisandthesnoos Mar 1, 2018 +584

All right, I gotta get back to that whole redesign thing. [Ready Hue?](http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1128465/step-brothers-o.gif)

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Incredulous_Toad Mar 1, 2018 +291

This is wonderful and I love both of you.

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[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +233

I don't even care about the rest of the thread, this is what brings joy to life.

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[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +101

Right? These adorable interactions are what I love about humanity, and it gives me hope that things will turn out ok when I see such wholesome occurrences between strangers.

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-Mopsus- Mar 1, 2018 +175

This is proof that the admins are unfairly favoring Huey Lewis and the News over other content on listnook. I knew it!

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SpiritMountain Mar 2, 2018 +3

What do you guys think when people use REZ to use the legacy overview system? It seems like there is quite a significant group of people who would like to use it. Will you phase legacy out eventually? Also, in a similar vein, v.listnook links do not to only the gif or video. They always open the comments section. I rather it open the video or gif if I ctrl click, open it in a new tab, or mouse 3 it. A lot of times, there is no reason to have the comments open as well. I would also be ok with a source to the post be linked underneath or something. I rather not rely on a 3rd party (RES, extension, whatever) to be able to do this.

MajorParadox Mar 1, 2018 +314

Oh man, [this is the coolest gif ever!](https://i.redd.it/uk5t2xyv27j01.gif) > Navigation: We wanted to make Listnook simpler to navigate for everyone, so after receiving feedback from our alpha testers, we developed a “hamburger menu” on the left sidebar that made it easy to do everything users wanted it to: quickly find your favorite sublistnooks and sublistnooks you moderate, and filter all of your subscriptions just by typing in a few letters. Judging from the gif, it looks like there will finally be a way to load the hamburger, click, and have it collapse automatically? When will that be fixed, because it drives me crazy that it takes me three clicks! :) >I'll be sticking around in the comments for a bit to answer questions and invite all of you to listen to Huey Lewis with me. [This is my favorite Huey Lewis and the News song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCkgYhtz64U) for obvious (?) reasons ;)

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hueylewisandthesnoos Mar 1, 2018 +126

>When will that be fixed, because it drives me crazy that it takes me three clicks! :\) We are working on multiple improvements to the experience and aesthetic of the navigation, keep your eyes peeled. >[This is my favorite Huey Lewis and the News song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCkgYhtz64U) for obvious \(?\) reasons ;\) Mine too! However, the song in the post was pretty apt for this occasion :\)

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GorrodeRock Mar 1, 2018 +10

[ok but have any of you heard the power of love 12" extended version because omg it's so much better than the original](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEOUdf35ojY)

MajorParadox Mar 1, 2018 +19

Well, I'm going to listen to Power of Love now because it's on my phone's playlist :)

Exaskryz Mar 1, 2018 +7

Depending on the usefulness of the hamburger menu, it would be great to do like Ribbons do in MS Office products and be pinnable so that when you select someħing in the menu, it doesn't automatically collapse. I'm sure 95% of the time I want it to collapse. But 95% of the time I may not, like if I search for a sublistnook and want to check out multiple of similar names. I wouldn't want my search results hidden/reset automatically.

mixmasterk Mar 1, 2018 +37

I'm working on the hamburger tray auto-collapse right now so should be out next week!

[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +600

[deleted]

600

Realtrain Mar 1, 2018 +28

I love that the top two posts are about the same thing. You can really tell what some listnookors care about. Granted, it's not for everyone. **Choice is the key to all of this.**

hueylewisandthesnoos Mar 1, 2018 +265

[Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy](http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/fez_I_love_you.gif)

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Squeakopotamus Mar 1, 2018 +218

Holy shit just wanted to say I f****** love your name

218

PitchforkAssistant Mar 1, 2018 +20

This was my biggest complaint with the redesigned site (apart from extensions not supporting it yet), now all I need is the native night mode!

nonfish Mar 1, 2018 +36

What does this mean? I'm out of the loop

Nick4753 Mar 1, 2018 +6

In listnook "classic" the content fits the full width of your screen. In the "new" listnook design the content is constrained to a fixed width in the middle of the screen. Not a huge deal if you have a small monitor, but if you have a large widescreen monitor it's (for many people, including myself) annoying. That and the lack of RES support are the #1 and #2 reasons I use the "classic" view even though my account has access to the new design. And thanks to feedback both issues are being worked on.

dmoneyyyyy Mar 1, 2018 +82

It means we'll be filling out the white space on the screen in Classic and Compact view modes!

[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +35

scruggsnotdrugz Mar 1, 2018 +56

Since card view shows content *and* titles, it doesn't look so great when it's full width. We've tried. But this is top of mind, and we're working on improving it.

Iwilleatyourwine Mar 1, 2018 +172

From one designer to another, may the (force be with you) odds be ever in your favour.

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hueylewisandthesnoos Mar 1, 2018 +144

[The force is strong ... most of the time.](https://media.giphy.com/media/bIF98VRBmmyzK/giphy.gif)

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[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +55

surdert Mar 1, 2018 +81

I wish and hope for the best possible outcome.

hueylewisandthesnoos Mar 1, 2018 +71

The best possible outcome only happens when we all collaborate, looking forward to hearing the feedback from everyone as we continue to the journey!

snaab900 Mar 2, 2018 +11

Why can't you just gradually and incrementally improve things, out of interest? I don't care a great deal, but believe me I know what the shitstorm is going to be like when a redesign is rolled out as default. Oh god...

Super105 Mar 1, 2018 +126

Gotta say, love the hamburger menu design. Nice work!

hueylewisandthesnoos Mar 1, 2018 +121

But do you prefer cheese on top or bottom?

121

nicostein Mar 1, 2018 +48

Top, unless there's mayonnaise on the bottom.

hueylewisandthesnoos Mar 1, 2018 +44

[Don't tell anyone](https://media1.tenor.com/images/e3b615a1ba126799756aeb95143024ee/tenor.gif), but I agree with you.

Kingcrowing Mar 1, 2018 +7

I think it looks good, but is it necessary to be so prominent and displayed all the time? I feel like it'll be a set-it-and-forget it type setting for the vast majority of users. I don't think I'll ever change between the three types, so if it was less obvious that wouldn't be a problem.

Watchful1 Mar 1, 2018 +65

Cheese goes on top of the patty. I'll fight anyone who says differently.

9Ghillie Mar 1, 2018 +23

Who puts the cheese on the bottom? You melt it on top of the patty _while_ cooking.

PM_Me_Ex_GF_Pics Mar 1, 2018 +8

Agreed. Exceptions may be permitted to allow cheese placed at the bottom after there is already cheese on top.

[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +47

Cool. Nice job, keep up the great work!

ZL1LEi Mar 1, 2018 +1

I love you guys.

honestbleeps Mar 1, 2018 +529

am I alone in being exceedingly concerned that the new interface will exacerbate the already horrible problem of people commenting solely on headlines / not reading articles? the new interface **actively discourages** clicking to read articles. clicking the title pops up a modal with comments in it, rather than linking to the article. to get to the article, you have to complete the very unintuitive task of clicking on the domain name (which is unintuitive even to a newbie, but to a seasoned listnookor the expectation is that this would take us to /domain/domainname.com)... Forgetting for a moment that I don't care for this being the interface: I actually think it would have a seriously deleterious impact on discourse on listnook, which is bad enough as-is with people not reading articles prior to commenting/sharing opinions, but now the interface is pretty much making that worse on purpose.

529

pre4edgc Mar 2, 2018 +39

As an addendum to this, not only is it encouraging not opening up articles, I found that it's actively discouraging me from touching any sort of article link *period*. Links are only marked read when you click on the comment chain and *not* the content itself, and sometimes, I don't need to see comments on a picture of a snake wearing a hat just to prove to future me that I opened that link. I would greatly appreciate a change involving marking the post as read when the content itself was opened \(like the original design\), but add the ability to mark the thread itself read *when you open the thread*. Maybe gray out the color of the "XXX Comments" link, similar to the title of the thread. Thus, title = content, comments = thread. You could quickly understand which links you opened and which threads you opened without having to add a ridiculous amount of unintuitive icons or words.

Web-Plan-Design Mar 2, 2018 +99

Why do they even post announcements if they are only going to reply to the people praising the design or doing memes? Really makes no sense to do these then. Look at all the comments the team decided to reply to.

iprefertau Mar 2, 2018 +15

because the default sorting method is q&a that way they can make it look like most people agree with the redesign

Arve Mar 1, 2018 +57

> Give communities tools that are simple, intuitive, and flexible—for styling, moderating, communicating sublistnook rules, and customizing how each community organizes its content. A few suggestions that will help running communities: In the posting requirements, add further rules that prevent submission of content known to violate rules of the sublistnook. While having domain white/blacklists, it should also be possible to act on the following, without having to resort to AutoModerator: * Block affiliate links on submission * Block (or require) that submissions are from known image hosts * White/blacklist what in today's AutoModerator config known as "media_author" * Similar handling for shortlinks - and make the client/browser automatically replace the shortlink if the user chooses to. * Allow rules for content that will be queued for manual review by moderators * Allow for adding body text to image posts, with requirements for having a post body (As an example: In /r/audiophile and /r/headphones, we have a requirement that users add additional context to image posts - today they have to do this after the fact, and we end up in situations where we remove posts after a few hours if it's clear OP does not intend to add listening impressions or some other relevant context. * Allow blocking submission of posts based on words/phrases in posts.

Zediac Mar 1, 2018 +227

Here's some feedback. The new profile overview page is awful. It seems like it's trying to consolidate info together but in the process it makes posts harder to track. I ALWAYS use Overview (Legacy) because the new one is, in a word, trash. Stop making it so I have to press more buttons or click more links to access what used to be all directly in front of me. More effort to get to the same content is what ruins many site redesigns. Also, I want to opt out of the new social media, facebook page, style of profile. I never chose to go to it. It was forced on me. I don't want it. I will never post anything to it. I want the old profile back. I greatly dislike the changes made recently, and I use listnook less now because of it, so I have no faith in any new changes coming.

227

overly_handsome Mar 1, 2018 +65

I agree completely, but all the top comments are just low effort praise, oh well The profile pages are horrendously bad and if I ever get forced to seeing them (using RES to use the old layout currently) it would really suck

BlueShellOP Mar 2, 2018 +18

+1 for this. The new profile page has violated the one thing that makes listnook great: information density. Plus, listnook was never about the users, it was always about the communities - this sudden change concerns me because it tells me that upper management has no idea what made the site great in the first place and just wants to copy other popular sites.

[deleted] Mar 2, 2018 +7

Just curious: what do you use the profile page for? Do you mostly visit your own profile or other users’ profiles? I ask because I’ve seen lots of feedback about the new profile page which indicates lots of users get tons of value out of it, but since I almost never visit a profile page (mine or others’) I feel like maybe I’m missing something by not caring about profile pages at all.

kmeisthax Mar 1, 2018 +427

I sincerely hope you don't make Card the default view. It looks exactly like every other social network ever: information-sparse displays of very small amounts of content at once. This style works for Facebook, but it would actively hinder people's use of Listnook. It's also not friendly to landscape mobile views where images are usually not height-restricted to fit the screen. The only advantage I can see is that you don't have to click the button to expand out the post... Conversely, Compact (which looks like Hacker News) would be a great default for text-only sublistnooks that don't need thumbnails. Perhaps there should be an option to allow sublistnooks to decide what their default view is?

427

TheyAreAllTakennn Mar 1, 2018 +65

Yeah Card view makes me feel claustrophobic, it's just seems like 200% zoom on classic listnook. There is a reason no one uses 200% zoom on classic listnook. I mean I'm all for it being an option for people who are *really* used to mobile apps or something, but it is objectively the worst option of the 3 and really shouldn't be the default view for desktop.

Cmdr_Salamander Mar 1, 2018 +104

Agreed. The trend towards more and more whitespace drives me nuts.

104

kmeisthax Mar 1, 2018 +47

The problem isn't the whitespace as much as it is the heavy focus on image content. Card basically expands all the images out on top of what Classic does... which is kind of superfluous, since Classic already includes image thumbnails.

o--Cpt_Nemo--o Mar 1, 2018 +15

At least can you please add flair to users that use cardview so that I can sneer at them secure in the knowledge that I am vastly superior to them?

[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +325

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[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +100

It happened to Digg. It happened to Gizmodo. It's happening to Facebook. If Listnook doesn't handle this well, they stand to lose a good chunk of traffic.

100

Angry_Sapphic Mar 1, 2018 +63

It's the circle of life. Listnook is giant, it's gonna pop at some point. I, for one, look forward to the return of self-contained forums.

my_name_isnt_clever Mar 1, 2018 +26

If they are Listnook-like with threads weighted depending on votes and not chronologically, I'm all for it.

FreeSpeechWarrior Mar 1, 2018 +14

This is my hope. We are well overdue for an exodus. All the things about digg that turned off the community are already in motion here even without the redesign. Moderators are the new power users. My hope is that the redesign will awaken people to the fact that Listnook has *already* morphed into what was hated about digg v4 Maybe people just need the visual indication of the shift to finally recognize it.

Seakawn Mar 1, 2018 +3

Why expect we're special because we have that awareness? I assume Listnook is just concerned as we are. My question would be, why *wouldn't* Listnook have studied the flying f*** out of Digg's downfall, being scared to death of doing anything that could lead to the same or a similar outcome? I'm not really worried about it. Besides, if Listnook is really collaborating with the community on this, then if Listnook tries making the "Card layout" the default view, then there will be backlash, and they'll say "oh shit" and just make it a *recommended* layout instead of a default one. But they're certainly being productive by giving options of different ways to view the site. However my main point, again, is that I'm not worried about it. Why assume the admin isn't paranoid about this like we are? The fear of Listnook following in the footsteps of Digg just isn't a unique fear to have.

its_never_lupus Mar 1, 2018 +39

It wasn't just design issues that sunk Digg, there had been a growing reaction to the way a small cabal of super-users controlled the front page, then the final straw was a piss-poor bit of censorship from the admins (trying to hide a DVD decryption key I think). Clearly the design matters but for a link aggragator site like Listnook it's the content and community that really count.

aYearOfPrompts Mar 1, 2018 +25

> there had been a growing reaction to the way a small cabal of super-users controlled the front page, And the listnook redesign with its emphasis on profiles leans hard directly into that. They're about to make the same mistake Digg did. The question is if a competitor site is ready to take refugees the way listnook was there for Digg. (And it definitely won't be voat)

weaponizedvodka Mar 1, 2018 +12

Diggs redesign didn't kill the site. Their redesign combined with the way they surfaced stories killed the site.

mlorusso4 Mar 1, 2018 +328

Im a big fan of r/cfb and browse it almost every day. A few weeks ago they tweeted out that the new redesign would limit the number of flairs available (so not every college team could have a flair) as well as making flairs text only and getting rid of double flairs. Are these changes still being implemented or do mods have the option to keep the old flair system. That sub has a whole culture that revolves around flairs and it would be a shame if we lost some of that

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notnotbuddy Mar 1, 2018 +37

We're not nearly as big as /r/cfb but have a similar culture at /r/bigbrother. We also have double flairs and trophies for predicting winners and other sublistnook games. Losing the ability to continue these games and awards will drive some of us away

dmoneyyyyy Mar 1, 2018 +123

We definitely hear this and know having the ability to add many more flairs is important to the culture of communities like r/cfb. We're currently thinking through this and the tech implications for adding a ton more flairs. Hang tight! We'll provide an update as soon as we can.

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Ex-Gen-Wintergreen Mar 1, 2018 +49

Yes please consider this. /r/cfb has one of the best cultures of any sports website, and the flairs play a massive part of it. Some examples of this include allowing us to represent our affiliations, adding a second level of humor to comments, allowing for playing ribbing, and during playoffs, allowing us to be terrible bandwagon fans. The richness of the current forms cannot be matched through text/emoji, and it will destroy an integral part of the /r/cfb experience.

drgnlis Mar 1, 2018 +31

As a fan of a smaller school, my flair is not close to the top 100 most used. Nor is it from the top eschelon of teams (P5 of the FBS). There are over 250 teams in Division 1 football alone, not even counting for D2, D3, bowls, conferences, and international teams. Please do not remove my identity and that of others of minority teams from my favorite place on the internet.

farmtownsuit Mar 1, 2018 +117

Hold on let's get back to the other part of the comment: text only flairs? Y'all are doing that? Please don't. I love seeing the banners on people's flairs in /r/asoiaf or the team logos in /r/mlb.

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science-i Mar 1, 2018 +20

Flairs aren't exactly text\-only. Instead, there are emojis \(both listnook\-wide and custom per sublistnook\) which _count_ as text, and so allow embedding images into flairs. Unfortunately, they're _tiny_ \(15px x 15px\), and at least as of now, the only controls mods have for them are allowing them at all; no ability to control which emojis, how many, or where in the flair. I think for some communities that just have a few little badges now, or for communities without any sort of image flair, it'll be a nice change, but for most sublistnooks that currently have image flairs that I'm aware of \(including r/RWBY, where I moderate\) it's definitely not a viable replacement.

my_name_isnt_clever Mar 1, 2018 +55

It doesn't surprise me at all. Just like when they wanted to disable custom css, they don't want mods to be able to have custom graphics in their sub's design.

aprofondir Mar 1, 2018 +35

Because they want an uniform consistent look, suitable for advertisers and not confusing for 9gaggers who just want le funny memes and cat pics.

Seakawn Mar 1, 2018 +10

I'd actually think that the 9gag/iFunny/FunnyJunk crowd enjoys more of the way it is right now. With more customization, you can totally troll the layout of your sublistnook, and make it look entirely stupid and memey, which I'd imagine is exactly what they look for. A more uniform look that appeals more to professional advertisers isn't what I correlate with the 9gag demographic's preferences. But of course that's just my opinion, maybe I'm wrong.

DMonitor Mar 2, 2018 +12

You're not wrong, entirely. The thing you're forgetting is that it takes effort to theme a sublistnook, and effort to navigate a heavily themed one. You can remove the sublistnook styling locally, but that also takes effort. The last thing the "filthy casual" demographic wants to do on the internet is effort.

noahconstrictor95 Mar 1, 2018 +157

So you guys are actively removing features with this new redesign despite knowing that it directly impacts communities like r/cfb with a very large pool of flairs that vastly improve the sublistnook?

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aprofondir Mar 1, 2018 +31

I also love their standard sterile PR response that says nothing.

MC_Kloppedie Mar 1, 2018 +29

Same goes for r/vexillology We'll make a nice flag for the admins if you are good bois.

ttsci Mar 2, 2018 +6

Also chiming in in favor of additional flairs and other features that would help /r/cfb retain some of the awesome functionality that the team over there creates. It's easily my single favorite community on Listnook. I know the mod team there would gladly work with the admins on prioritizing the most important features, testing designs, etc!

[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +977

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noratat Mar 1, 2018 +68

Agreed. Almost all of the design changes I've seen so far take away listnook's biggest feature (simplicity) and adds almost nothing in exchange. Stop arbitrarily hiding comment threads mid-way through, stop suggesting random c*** to me I don't care about, and ditch the cluttered profile page mess. I don't even try to use Listnook without RES or third party mobile apps anymore.

Amg137 Mar 1, 2018 +278

Yes, we are. We know that different users want to experience Listnook in different ways. That being said we build a classic view for users that enjoy current Listnook, please give it a try. You can always switch back!

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[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +191

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V2Blast Mar 1, 2018 +246

The former. They've confirmed this in previous threads as well, I believe. The current site will continue to exist (though it might not work well with new features built for the redesign), and the Classic mode within the redesign itself will be separate from that.

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Jimmni Mar 1, 2018 +72

I'm fully prepared to move to the new design but two things are holding me back and are total dealbreakers for me. 1. The waste of space (which it sounds like you are fixing!) 2. How hard it is to read things with swathes of black, bold text. Highlight titles with colour rather than bold font styles, like the legacy design! Love a lot of the other changes, but until I can scroll down a page and take in the titles as easily as I do now, I see no reason to change.

Sephran Mar 1, 2018 +11

I'm with u/MJ_OF_DRUNK_DRIVING, not the condoning his worldwide status of drunk driving.. but the legacy layout. Trying to go back and look for a specific thread I commented on with the card layout was too much, but it looks like you got compact and classic which both look amazing. So no complaints. Thanks for thinking of us and offering users multiple options! The new format looks "listnook" but looks modern and I do love it. Good job to all there.

MajorParadox Mar 1, 2018 +12

Will there be any way to bridge the gap for moderators? It's going to be really annoying to have to update two sets of sidebars for each sublistnook. And some of them have daily updates needed.

ThatFag Mar 1, 2018 +203

This is such a small suggestion for improvement... it'll take like 5 minutes to implement: can you stop making the v.listnook posts expand in the comments page? I specifically have expanding posts on the comments option disabled but v.listnook just straight up ignores it. It's an actual bug. Please fix that shit. Also get rid of that f****** new profile page. Or at least give us an option to not get that shit. Stop forcing that down our throats. Yeah I know RES allows you to redirect it to the overview page but that's not really a fix. Please stop forcing that!

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h0nest_Bender Mar 1, 2018 +43

> Or at least give us an option to not get that shit. Go to your listnook preferences. It's the very last setting at the bottom. Granted, I fully expect them to take away legacy profiles once they've "fixed" the new ones.

Wozago Mar 1, 2018 +68

That new profile page is incredibly annoying and unhelpful. If I want to actually view a profile I have to go out of my way to look at the legacy version.

Spritedz Mar 1, 2018 +149

I honestly just want to see the comments rating back. When someone gets downvoted to hell, most people bandwagon against him and assume he's wrong without looking into the situation, so they downvote. When you have the downvotes, but you can also see that a lot of people upvoted, you might have a different insight on the comment and you might not circle-jerk as much. This really is an issue right now on Listnook in my opinion that needs to be addressed. I understand it could've been removed to avoid voting manipulations and what not, but didn't Listnook come out with a new infrastructure about a year ago to help against this?

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onan Mar 1, 2018 +61

Yes, _these_ are the types of changes that I think might be merited. I would really love to see visible vote counts back. There are many situations in which they materially change the tone of the conversation. And if we're not going to have full vote visibility, I think we should go the other direction, and not show scores at all. After all, if the only thing voting is being used for is to choose sort order for comments, there's no reason that this score needs to be visible to humans. And it does encourage gamification of scoring, which is often harmful. I would most prefer complete visibility, but none at all would also an improvement. The current middle ground is the worst of both options.

Seakawn Mar 1, 2018 +44

Man, I've been on Listnook for 9 years. It warms my heart to see this sentiment near the top of the comments here. It's almost a daily or at least a weekly basis where I *still* have a cursory thought of, "f***... why did they f****** remove the downvote / upvote ratio from comments... this sucks." Like it's insane. I shouldn't still be hung up about it, but it was such a counterproductive change for the worse--no matter whatever else they may have "fixed" by doing it.

mud074 Mar 1, 2018 +21

Exact same thing here man. There is always some nagging thought that pops up when I am browsing listnook about the downvote ratio. Every time I end up with a downvoted post, I want to see how many upvotes it got. It made it a lot easier to stomach getting to -100 for going against the circlejerk when you could see that you also got 100 upvotes, but 200 downvotes. The fact they ignore this question every time makes me think it was on purpose to promote the image that listnook is some big happy family where everybody agrees.

onan Mar 1, 2018 +14

Yep, 11 years here. I subscribed to listnook gold as soon as it came out, because I do value the platform and I prefer a subscription business model to an advertising one. And then I canceled when they took away visible vote counts. I resubscribed a few years ago when they made at least an initial effort at banning hate sublistnooks (though their followthrough on that has been weak tea). If this redesign goes through, I'm guessing that it might be time to cancel again.

SuperC142 Mar 2, 2018 +7

Man, I miss this so much. They said I'd get used to it. I never got used to it. I still strongly believe listnook is not as good because of it.

Listnook doesn’t care about transparency anymore. If they did they wouldn’t have closed the source code. I’d love to see vote info come back but the redesign actually goes in the opposite direction as controversiality daggers aren’t even supported.

doomvox Mar 1, 2018 +20

Clearly there's a huge difference between a +1 comment and a +11-10 comment.

[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +280

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likeafox Mar 1, 2018 +144

My thoughts on this from another thread: >Yes - they're not going to explain it this way because any ad discussion turns toxic quickly but: >A very large percentage of desktop users browse using RES with infinite scroll turned on - this means that those users reload the page less and are served fewer ads than intended by listnook, as promoted posts only appear at the *top* of the feed. >The new design has infinite scroll baked in, and will serve ads to the user via inline / in-feed ads. Yes, it's annoying - but that's what they've felt they need to do in order to monetize the platform. Twitter does this, Tumblr does this, now listnook will as well. Unless you're paying a subscription fee, it's simply a reality that ad impressions must be served in order to keep the lights on.

jorbleshi_kadeshi Mar 1, 2018 +126

It would be less odious if it were overtly an ad vs trying to blend in with the content. I'm talking different background color or center aligned or something. Just putting "promoted" in while leaving the other UI elements looking similar or the same to the actual content is shady. It's like every newspaper ever with their "Government to release limited silver coins!" ^^^^^ad

clueless_typographer Mar 2, 2018 +14

Yep, trying to 'trick' users into clicking on ads is the best way to lose a community

ThePooSlidesRightOut Mar 2, 2018 +10

Fortunately, the kind of people who use RES are also most likely to know how to create filters in uBlock Origin.

mxzf Mar 1, 2018 +38

Ok, then can those of us who prefer pagination over infinite scrolling turn that feature off?

swohio Mar 2, 2018 +5

> A very large percentage of desktop users browse using RES with infinite scroll turned on - this means that those users reload the page less and are served fewer ads than intended by listnook, as promoted posts only appear at the top of the feed. As if people that installed RES don't also have ad block installed...

dysgraphical Mar 1, 2018 +98

The last time an Admin commented on this, they pretty much ignored the entire in-line design critique and mentioned >We will be working on letting users hide ads as well as not showing you ads you’ve already downvoted in the near future. I don't think they're going anywhere.

Fusinn Mar 1, 2018 +47

They've been pretty good at ignoring most of those threads on /r/redesign as far as I've seen in the alpha. There have been plenty of good suggestions, the best compromise in my opinion is still having them inline (thus listnook gets more ad revenue) but making them *way* more noticeable for example having a different coloured background behind the ad, or framing them in an obvious border.

[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +71

Ugh there's nothing worse than ads directly in amongst or over top of the content you want to view. This is why I block ads on youtube, I don't give a rat's flatulent arse about 99% of ads as it is, but if they are on the sides/periphery and not in my way I am okay with them. Listnook currently has one of the least intrusive ad displays and I am happy to keep listnook whitelisted.

telchii Mar 1, 2018 +14

Don't forget about the plethora of ads in the new sidebar. You'll always see at least 2 ads in it, plus more depending on how many widgets are implemented. My test sub has 7 ads for 12 (of the max 20) widgets...

aprofondir Mar 1, 2018 +21

I mean that's why the whole redesign is happening. Making the site more suitable for advertising and monetization and also making it more welcoming for new users from other social media, therefore making a bigger advertising audience. Native advertising like this was to be expected.

PitchforkAssistant Mar 1, 2018 +128

Can we have some sort of distinction between videos uploaded to v.redd.it and gifs (or soundless videos)? It is very annoying if you're out in public on your phone and click on what you thought would be a gif but it starts blasting audio. I would be all for putting gifs on i.redd.it or even g.redd.it. ^(Would really appreciate a reply /u/dmoneyyyyy /u/kethryvis /u/hueylewisandthesnoos)

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[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +12

Can we have a means to filter all v.redd.it domain articles from our feed? The listnook video service doesn't work for everyone and it's frustrating to click on a link to find it's another v.redd.it thing that one cannot see. I'd rather just not see the links in my feed at all.

dmoneyyyyy Mar 1, 2018 +34

Sometimes people will upload videos but not turn them into gifs, but the video itself doesn't contain audio, which might be where the issue lies. We're investigating how to detect this upon submission so we can automatically mark the soundless video as a gif.

NEVER_SAME_PW_TWICE Mar 1, 2018 +122

[I want to bring this to the Design team's attention.. ](https://www.listnook.com/r/CFB/comments/80x32k/listnook_redesign_qa/) /r/CFB has over 2,200 available flairs.. with around 1,800 currently in use. Please DO NOT limit the number of emjoi flairs to the rumored 500 - 1500.. This would severely cripple much of what the sports subs view as a part of their identities. Thank you for all the hard work you guy's have put into this re-design. I can't wait to see it in action! I'd love to be apart of the beta, but I don't mod any subs that are active enough to warrant it! /u/dmoneyyyyy /u/kethryvis /u/hueylewisandthesnoos

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kyha Mar 1, 2018 +588

Please for the love of all that's holy can you make us not need to have Listnook Enhancement Suite to have a night mode? Bright white background burns my eyes and gives me migraines, and I know I'm not the only one.

hai-sea-ewe Mar 1, 2018 +105

You can get it, you just have to pay for listnook gold. I'm not kidding.

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atree496 Mar 1, 2018 +80

Agree. Every app and site should have a night mode.

TheAppleFreak Mar 1, 2018 +23

I know this is still a ways off, but I've got a few questions about CSS. * How exactly will the custom CSS feature work? Will all of the elements in the DOM be given classes and then moderators can run amok like we can with the current site, or will we be editing the CSS for the React components that build up the UI? * Will you be able to navigate to other pages while previewing the CSS, or will theme developers have to continue to use test sublistnooks or browser extensions to see how the theme works everywhere? * Is there any consideration going into whether to allow more advanced CSS tools like Sass/LESS? * Are we still going to be limited to 100KiB stylesheets?

[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +24

[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +6

I have to agree, but this is the world we live in. I went to a pitch recently and they used memes and gifs. I asked them why they used this method when the presentation was meant for a serious application and they told me this is the now, they combine memes, gifs and a sense of seriousness to their pitches. Needless to say, they didn't get a call back.

jasdonle Mar 1, 2018 +547

I feel bad for the Listnook design team. Being tasked with changing something that doesn't need changing, for management who needs it changed for bottom-line reasons that don't align with the users. It's a no-win situation. I'm sure you're all good people and putting in lots of work on this, but everyone knows Listnook doesn't need a redesign. It's as simple as that. Edit: Thanks for the gold, stranger.

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[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +77

> don't align with the users. Because the current demographic isn't the demographic they're going for long term for profitability. Listnook has been trying to pivot, and hard, to a different demographic. My wife, sister and school friend all joined listnook within ~6 mo of each other with out me ever mentioning it. They do stuff like /r/babybumps. They like facebook want a bit more anonymity. Look at the new 'profile pages'. They started self hosting their own images. They finally came out with an app of their own. It's also why they've been 'purging' listnook of what they have in the last few years. Listnook is positioning itself at the "leaving facebook, educated millennial (20-35) female" demographic. They are starting to have disposable income. Their old hang out (facebook) is being flooded by their parents and Gen X/Y. They know enough to be anonymous but stick onto Facebook because, for the time being.

aprofondir Mar 1, 2018 +41

The thing is, those people are just gonna hop onto the next thing that becomes popular and forget about Listnook. It's like when Nintendo got a big lucky hit with the Wii and a huge casual new fan base and stopped caring about those old fans because our new friends make us more money, but then those casual fans moved onto mobile gaming, cow clicker type games, tablets, Spiderman Elsa p***, Snapchat filters, whatever, and then Nintendo was stuck with the old fans again. This will happen to Listnook, /r/markmywords

The 14-30 y/o male "internet vanguard" will. They've always been the group out in front testing out the wild wild web. My generation was Usenet, IRC, Fark, Slashdot & Facebook. The half one after me had 4Chan, Digg and Listnook. Fark and Slashdot had their niches and never took off among everyone. Facebook obviously did to the point that my parents generation took it over and turned it into "Forwards from Grandma 2.0". Slashdot still looks, more or less, the exact same as it did when I started in ~2001. Fark and Digg didn't have the critical mass to survive a redesign that offended their core demographic. I honestly think that Listnook does. There are *so many* sublistnooks that are off the grid of most of Listnook's "old" demographic: /r/MakeupAddiction/, /r/BabyBumps/, /r/fitpregnancy/, /r/mommit/, /r/daddit/. Stuff that people want to discuss anonymously but 'together'.

jasdonle Mar 1, 2018 +8

Great analysis, and I think you're probably right. These are the kind of conversations that are happening behind the scenes, and we're getting the sanitized PR explanation for the changes. In an ideal world, Listnook would be run by a non-profit ala Wikipedia and would function based on donations. That's not how things turned out, unfortunately.

TheAppleFreak Mar 1, 2018 +108

There's large chunks of code powering Listnook that date back to 2006-2008, and trying to tack new functionality on top of that code while not breaking other stuff is an increasingly difficult task. Given how many complaints longtime users have about the site as-is (remember the mod protests and blackout in 2016?), a redesign was totally warranted.

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onan Mar 1, 2018 +35

> There's large chunks of code powering Listnook that date back to 2006-2008, and trying to tack new functionality on top of that code while not breaking other stuff is an increasingly difficult task. That's some nicely circular logic. "We need to change it, otherwise we won't be able to change it." > Given how many complaints longtime users have about the site as-is (remember the mod protests and blackout in 2016?) Users don't have complaints, other than about all the anti-useful new things listnook has attempted to add. _Moderators_ have complaints. And while I'm not suggesting that that is unimportant, I think that acceding to moderator complaints at the expense of worsening the experience for users seems like a very bad deal.

EchoRadius Mar 1, 2018 +17

5 bucks says it has everything to do with cramming in some ads and/or further monetizing the user on an account level.

[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +46

s_s Mar 1, 2018 +28

BUT VC REQUESTS INFINITE REVENUE GROWTH ... and these bells and whistles have to be done internally so they can be monetized.

FreeSpeechWarrior Mar 1, 2018 +75

It’s not broke, but it was also not designed with the level of censorship in mind that currently occurs. Aaron Swartz was largely responsible for the original python code and he would be ashamed of what has happened to this site. http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rewritinglistnook

Cadanian Mar 1, 2018 +5

It's not totally necessary, but I'd say the current look is definitely a little outdated. I've used listnook for like 8 years and I wouldn't mind a redesign tbh. They just need to have an option to use the old design for everyone out there who doesn't want a change.

Chernoobyl Mar 1, 2018 +577

Design the mobile page to QUIT ASKING ME TO USE THE APP. I don't want to use the app, I will never use the app, quit asking me to use the app. I would rather stop using the site altogether than use an app.

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Zagorath Mar 1, 2018 +15

> With this post, we wanted to share some context on our approach, thank everyone who's participated in r/redesign so far (THANK YOU!) I hope you'll forgive me if I question just how much listening is going on here. I posted 6 submissions today of problems I experienced, at least 4 of which are major objective problems with the design. I've also upvoted and been following the threads of a bunch of other problems I've experienced. None of these threads I've been looking at have receive any admin feedback. I don't mind if you have to say "no, we're not going to be doing that" or "we're not sure what we'll do about that". It's just important that you be *transparent* with us. Let us know what's not going to be done and why, or let us know when something is under consideration. We need to know we're being listened to and acknowledged.

NemoEsq Mar 1, 2018 +13

I like how "simple" Listnook is, and it works for my usage of the site. The only two gripes I have is that 1) it's terrible to remember what goes where when trying to do a masked url and 2) it's impossible to remember how to insert an empty line to break apart paragraphs. I'm constantly having to look these two things up when I'm going to post. It should be easily found and clickable or just somehow already built in to the design.

etr4807 Mar 1, 2018 +23

I posted this question before and received an answer from Spez, but I'll tweak it and ask again towards a member of the design team itself... As I'm sure you're aware, almost every site that goes through any kind of redesign also goes through a long period of everyone complaining that they just want the old site back. What plans do you have in place to ensure that the redesign is something that the *overwhelming majority* of users are actually satisfied with? Feedback getting better and better with each iteration is obviously good, but will there be options available to long-time users who just flat out don't want things to change?

17291 Mar 1, 2018 +106

1) Please have an option to disable that persistent toolbar at the top. It unnecessarily takes up real-estate 2) It's been said before, but please make infinite scrolling (and any other sort of javascript "cuteness") optional.

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kuemmi Mar 1, 2018 +47

Yes please... infinite scrolling needs to be an option that can be turned off.

Web-Plan-Design Mar 1, 2018 +9

What is the need to do a gray background? Listnook clearly has a unique look, and the current craze is all about minimalist styles. The new layout reminds me of an early fark.com layout (it feels like the site is actually trying to show off a 2005 theme instead of something that comes off more modern). Why not keep the blocks you have colored for votes, and the space barrier, but remove the gray background. Everything else seems great, but that dull gray is obnoxious.

danhakimi Mar 1, 2018 +58

> Just when we thought we had the optimal approach to a new feature or legacy functionality, you came in and told us where we were wrong and, in most cases, explained to us with passion and clarity why a given feature was important to you ... soooo... About those new Profile Pages...

dare2smile Mar 1, 2018 +21

There's a setting in https://www.listnook.com/prefs/ (very last box) to turn ALL of them back to the old versions (desktop only). I turned it on and never looked back. <3

Renigami Mar 1, 2018 +9

I disagree with the hamburger menu on tall, portrait mode screens. To those users that are biased on this, may have already bought small screened phones to their hand, with another trade off in squinted glances. I would agree more, if such a menu is not only invoked by finger point presses or cursor movement and point clicks.

[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +58

Yeah, if you guys could stop peddling your app in a desperate bid to capture and sell user data, and just put everything on the website instead, [that would be great](https://www.listnook.com/r/thatwouldbegreat/comments/7r4geq/dear_companies_if_you_could_stop_pestering_me_to/?st=je8wqdid&sh=f06c8898).

[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +4

My issue with this is mainly the flairs. My sub using 128 flairs right now and each one is used. I had heard it was capped at 100 flairs, and the emojis thing just seems dumb. My inline flairs and normal flairs are fine as is. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. I know r/cfb is worried as well, they have like 2,000 flairs or something like that, along with dual flairs. They use in depth CSS. Here's what I recommend: allow us to keep using CSS if we so choose, but allow the template thing for the users that don't understand CSS. Keep the flairs. Flairs are extremely easy to do. There's so many resources on Listnook dedicated to CSS and sublistnook design. This whole redesign is pointless imo and just going to piss off everyone.

randomevenings Mar 1, 2018 +144

I just want it to be easy to read and follow comments like it is now. Please don't change that. Also the new profiles suck.

PretzelsThirst Mar 1, 2018 +65

Definitely, the profiles miss the mark in many ways. We're back to the drawing board with the feedback you gave us and updates are now underway to make it right.

JohnStamosBRAH Mar 1, 2018 +22

I have a new idea for the profiles. Take whatever new ideas you have.... then throw them away. Then, whoever was working on them - assign them to literally anything else. Finally, fire whoever's idea it was to change them and wasted all your time and money on a project that no one wants or needs

T-bootz Mar 1, 2018 +8

Just wanted to comment and voice my concern because I feel like this redesign will kill all of the sports sublistnooks which tend to have high flair-counts and custom CSS sidebars for schedules. Please make sure the redesign protects flairs and other important details for those subs like /r/CFB, /r/CollegeBasketball, /r/hockey, etc.

neckbeardgamers Mar 2, 2018 +6

How about actually doing something that will matter? All the suggestions of improvements here and on /r/blog, show you guys are out of touch. Censorship is rife on Listnook and alot of it is actually done by automod and other bots. Further users are not even notified by default if their contributions are not getting through! Only if you log off and try ceddit.com can you even find out! See: [Try to get something past invisible automoderator or bot filters! ](https://www.listnook.com/r/ListnookCensors/comments/7v7pll/try_to_get_something_past_invisible_automoderator/) How about: 1) Being transparent about censorship and bot filters. Inform users when their posts are not going through and why. 2) Forcing all moderation to be done openly. No one pays for sublistnook space, the least you can make the nerd moderators do to earn that sublistnook space, is force transparency regarding their actions. /r/conspiracy already does that and a few other subs. /r/ModerationLog already did the work to make transparent moderation possible. 3) Allow sublistnooks to disable up and downvoting. All that does is gamify the medium. Sure it probably makes people spend more time on Listnook arguing about karma, and makes the down-voted feel aggrieved and others victorious, but it makes actual discussion suck. Allow subs to disable it without CSS hacks than can be bypassed anyway. If you think Listnook is a good medium to post in as a user, please get /u/spez to tell Serena Williams to create another Listnook account. On that account have her identify as black woman(which she is), but don't disclose she is a famous tennis super-star in the public limelight for over a decade. And have her post with an innocuous signature saying she is 36 year old African American women attached to all of her posts and see what happens to her. [Listnook is not the front-page of the internet](https://www.thedailybeast.com/listnook-is-not-the-front-page-of-the-internet), it is only the front-page of the internet for mostly young, surly white nerds who vidya game. Case in point I remember most of my co-workers from the Newark area [talking about the death of someone very well known in the black community in Newark, Uggie,](http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2016/11/newark_street_performer_gunned_down_cops_seeking_t.html) but in /r/newark which pretends to represent a majority African-American city in the Listnookosphere, no one knew or posted he died... Have Serena post without being Serena but being just another black woman and you will see why African Americans and many other demographics avoid this medium like the plague!

HereTooOften Mar 1, 2018 +29

What were the difficulties of navigating current Listnook? It seems fine, but that's just me

sandmansleepy Mar 1, 2018 +9

The search function is pathetic. You get better results searching listnook with google. They are putting in line ads, so they are hard to differentiate from normal posts. They are also trying to make it look more like normal social media platforms, less intimidating, more round, think facebook, to draw more users. They are also going to change the back end a lot. But yep. Not going to add much to user experience if you are already a user.

ChipAyten Mar 1, 2018 +49

The Listnook redesign is catered 100% to a younger audience with an aim at eliminating, as much as possible, the barrier to entry that a CSS driven platform provides. The redesign is aimed to "standardize" Listnook, the Instagramization of this website, if you will. Everyone and every sub will start from the same GUI-fied cookie cutter template. I fear what this redesign will do is make it too easy - yes, sometimes that's a bad thing. If you head over to /r/redesign you'll see that my sentiments are not strictly my own. I understand that the old guard of any community will wave their fists at any proposed changes but sometimes they're right, sometimes change can be too drastic, too fast.

Nick4753 Mar 1, 2018 +8

The thing is, a lot of listnook traffic (the majority?) is done on mobile, where CSS doesn't apply anyways. If anything moving to a more structured format for things like sidebars will let them expose that sidebar content in a more coherent way inside the app, which is a good thing for communities. It's more cookie-cutter, but that's not strictly a bad thing based on how people are actually using listnook. Not to mention the improvement in things like accessibility, readability, and such.

lifelongfreshman Mar 1, 2018 +14

This is a small one, and probably is gonna go overlooked since the last time I brought it up I was universally met with hostility over having the audacity to suggest taking away a customization option. I'm also probably the only one who regularly runs into this while /r/random binging, but still. Something that always bugged me is the ability for people to completely hide the navigation banner at the top. I understand both the need and desire for moderation teams to be able to customize the look of the entire sublistnook to fit their needs, and that the banner - or whatever analogue will be created in the new style - should be customizable as a part of this. But is there some way to reach a compromise where these navigation tools can remain universally accessible while keeping the ability for the sublistnook team to customize their appearance? I'm okay with changing the font type, size, and various colors of it, but nothing ruins my enjoyment of a sublistnook more than the banner just up and disappearing. Even if it would otherwise be a sublistnook I'd enjoy sticking around in.

12mo Mar 1, 2018 +24

The new overview is ugly as hell. Mixing posts and comments and grayed out text and replies from other people on the user's overview page is an eyesore.

[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +7

+1 for that. It is so much more work to see post activity. IMO it's the opposite of an "at a glance" overview and just messy for the sake of change.

2NiceBastard Mar 6, 2018 +6

Add me to the list of non-functioning Listnook, after accidentally accepting the preview of the site redesign. Just 503 error, and unable to access from mobile also. I *am* able to access the preferences, but see no option to back out of the preview or revert my settings. What gives?

Horrible, plane and just another clone of a cookie cutter UX approach like all the rest of popular sites. Your new profile pages failed. In a way I am glad this is happening, i find when a site redesigns and looses what made it unique i tend to visit less and less. So thank you for helping me leave this god awful bubble. POP. PS How many are on your design team? I am fascinated by the large amount of teams who basically work on one website these days. Did these designs take a couple of years from wifeframing to end result?

I'm pretty active in /r/CFB We use flairs extremely heavily to indicate team affiliations (as do most sports sublistnooks I've been to). Being able to have the team logo next to our name makes it really easy to tell what team someone roots for, and it's very important for almost any interaction to know that. There has been some concern among the mod staff that the new Listnook design will destroy our flair system. This would be devastating to the flow of conversation in the sublistnook. Should we be concerned? Is the Listnook design team working with moderators to make sure that communities who rely heavily on flairs aren't disrupted by the design changes?

I'd really love an answer to this as well I'm active on /r/BigBrother and we can win trophy flair for each season. This summer will mark the 20th season of Big Brother and I'd be sad if we lost the functionality of flair. Plus our mods will make cute snoos of Big Brother players it really adds to the community bridging both listnook and Big Brother. I know it's not a huge deal but listnook gets mentioned a lot on twitter/facebook etc in regard to Big Brother and we've seen growth over the years on the sub due to people wanting to be a part of the Big Brother sublistnook. I understand change can be good, and I'll still enjoy listnook even if I can't get my trophy flair but it would be great if admins could work with moderators of subs who would be greatly impacted by these changes. Maybe you can find a solution that would work both with the redesign and allow listnook users of these subs a new way to implement flair or something similar for each unique sublistnook. I still love you listnook but a user on my sub said it best: > My first season I get to play the prediction flair game and I picked the w***** only to have listnook backstab me and vote me out in the double eviction.

shtbrcks Mar 1, 2018 +8

Another request that the mobile page does NOT ask you to use the app. It's 2018, everyone knows the app exists. If I was willing to use it, I wouldn't be on the mobile page in the first place. It's fair to assume anyone who isn't using the app by now, doesn't want to! If you must, just make sure I know the app exists, inform me ONCE.

[deleted] Mar 2, 2018 +5

[removed]

Just please don't mess up the classic /.compact mobile site. Or make the new mobile site usable. Either/or.

Mister_Probably Mar 1, 2018 +4

So far, the new mobile site lacks features that the desktop has, and I prefer the old desktop version. Please don’t change it. I don’t like installing apps and prefer to use the mobile web version. The mobile web version now not only harasses you about the app multiple times, but also lacks some things that I can do on the desktop version through my phone such as upload pics and see the scores on my comments.

[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +23

So...you like Huey Lewis and the News? Their early work was a little too new wave for my taste. But when Sports came out in '83, I think they really came into their own, commercially and artistically. The whole album has a clear, crisp sound, and a new sheen of consummate professionalism that really gives the songs a big boost. He's been compared to Elvis Costello, but I think Huey has a far more bitter, cynical sense of humor.

[deleted] Mar 1, 2018 +21

How about not forcing our mobile phones to deny installation of the app every time we load it or making it way less annoying. No one wants your app.

JudgeFang Mar 2, 2018 +5

All the feels. I'm on a design team myself, and this can't be an easy task, especially on a huge communications platform like Listnook. For every user vocally complaining about something, 50 more are silent. It's important to solicit feedback but also important to pay attention to reactions. You'll have users frothing at the mouth to tell you nothing needs to change, but often if you look at their behavior they have a thousand little hacky (and ingenious) workarounds to deal with inconveniences other people haven't figured out how to deal with, or even noticed. And yes, it's true that business needs are often at odds with user needs, and the business objectives have to be taken into account -- but there *is* tension there; the designers are on your (users') side and they do fight for you in meetings with product managers and execs. To the extent they can, anyway, which is hard when you have investors or shareholders breathing down your necks asking you to explain how this or that product decision helps the bottom line. User value is often qualitative, but the only way to fight for it is to use quantitative metrics. Unless you have bizarrely enlightened leadership (which sometimes happens)! Team: I'm looking forward to seeing what y'all come up with, and I understand it won't be what you originally wanted. But it'll be good, and it sounds like you have the resources to keep improving. Thanks! (edit: thanks also to my anonymous patron.)

Sunitsa Mar 6, 2018 +9

I pressed the "try the new design" thing, now I can't use listnook at all from desktop 10/10 would do it again

AnneBancroftsGhost Mar 1, 2018 +10

Still can't get a straight answer for this, maybe you can help. Will there be any effect on the listnook API?

demize95 Mar 2, 2018 +3

I've been saying this in /r/redesign for a while, but can we *please* do away with the whole "everything you click opens in a new tab" thing? When I left click a link I want it to open in the same tab, whether that's a link someone posted, the link to my profile, any of the links *on* my profile... Every time I want to look at my saved posts, I have to close three extra tabs: the one I started on, the first click to my profile, and the saved posts page itself. I read something a long time ago about why you shouldn't use `target="_blank"` on links, and it boiled down to "the user should choose where a link opens". I really enjoy being able to choose where links open. That's how I've used Listnook since I joined; that's what my usage flow looks like. And every time I click a link in the redesign it makes it feel like it wasn't designed to be used. It may sound like a minor gripe, but for me it's a major complaint. Hell, I'd be happy if I got some acknowledgement at all, it seems like this feedback is just completely ignored.

B1GTOBACC0 Mar 2, 2018 +4

Please make exceptions to the 100 flair limit for sports subs (or maybe large subs in general). /r/cfb has one of the biggest flair systems on Listnook, and even reducing the count to 100 means 29 teams from the FBS (the top division in college football) are left out. I understand wanting a unified experience across all platforms, but if it comes at the expense of some of the largest communities it seems like change for the sake of change rather than a well-planned improvement to Listnook.

Bat_Mannington Mar 1, 2018 +24

The only change listnook needed was a better search function.

TIL Listnook has a Design team

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