I am totally in favour of sending them all the help they need for the war. Money, weapons, anything. But they have to meet the criteria to join the EU.
128
HorsyNox1 day ago
+51
Of course, the criteria have to be met. Everyone understands that. Ukraine, even internally, never speaks about joining the EU without doing the homework.
51
Tabbyredcat1 day ago
-14
I've been very positively surprised by Ukraine's bravery and would love to have them in the EU. But yes, the EU has certain values and rules, and any state that wants to join has to abide by them.
-14
[deleted]1 day ago
+45
[deleted]
45
Tabbyredcat1 day ago
+21
If it were up to me, any country that doesn't abide by those rules and values should be out of the EU.
21
No-Cryptographer74941 day ago
i rather have ukraine then slovakia and bulgaria
0
Tabbyredcat1 day ago
I want to have Ukraine in the EU. They're brave, proud and fierce. We EU countries have many good qualities, but those 3 in particular are not among them, so I think they'd add a lot.
But letting countries join without abiding by our values has been a mistake that has recently hit us, and especially Ukraine, in the face. I believe they genuinely want to be "like us", it's what got them invaded in fact, so I think they'll be able to change to be fit to join.
0
KlausDieterFreddek1 day ago
-4
I'm afraid pretty much the entire EU would be gone in that case
-4
Weak-Subject93761 day ago
+23
The rules exist to *join* not to stay. I wish we could easily remove someone not abiding those values but that's not really the case. Regardless, thats a different conversation. The conversation at hand, the point, is that Ukraine needs to first ensure they meet the criteria *to join* before we should allow them in
23
No-Cryptographer74941 day ago
+1
we should help them first so they have time to implement changes and not trying to defend
1
Weak-Subject93761 day ago
The "changes" (rampant corruption, human rights abuses, ect) are cultural problems that predate this war. We have no obligation to do something like that despite the war. Not to mention how incredibly unfair it would be for the many other countries who have been trying to get into the EU for years but first also need to make changes
0
Unhappy_Flatworm_3252 days ago
+3
100% de acuerdo con ello!
3
LucasSkywalker892 days ago
-22
Question, what more can we give so that we don't end up bankrupt ourselves (EU)? USA has been taking more and more from US Bases from EU, to the point of almost being empty, what can we give them so that they can win this war? Money? The more this conflict vs Iran goes, the more we slip in a depression like in 1930 (a depression is much worse than a recession, think 2008 20x worse.). We are already to the biggest oil crisis that the world has ever faced, all thanks to Trump and Bibi and their delusional ambitions.
At some point, people need to understand one thing, reality vs fiction, the sooner the better.
-22
Tabbyredcat1 day ago
+24
I'm no expert on geopolitics, but my opinion as a European citizen is that Ukraine can not lose this war. This war is a severe existential threat to all of Europe, and we are not taking it seriously enough.
The Iran war means a crisis for the whole world, but regarding oil supply, it's a bigger problem for Asia than the West. In any case, the Iran war is not up to Europe, but Ukraine is.
24
LucasSkywalker891 day ago
-24
So, for us, the Europeans, is to sink with Ukraine, right? Because if we pour money that we will never see them back, put military equipment to the point of us reaching a very limited military equipment, what more can we actually do? Send troops against a nuclear powered country?
Oil supply is worldwide, not just Asia, stop ignoring the fact that gas and oil prices are a worldwide commodity, not local!
-24
[deleted]1 day ago
+10
[deleted]
10
LucasSkywalker891 day ago
-10
You are wrong, if 90 bil. Euros are just a little snack, why aren't we giving away free of fear the frozen Russian assets to Ukraine? Stop fooling yourself with such thinking, we are going to pay the price with job losses and low living standards, increases in taxes, price rising and such. There is no such thing of money thrown away like we do with Ukraine, we are keeping them afloat but once this war ends, who will keep them afloat? Russia? Ukrainians themselves? We, the EU? No matter the choices, we are going to pay the price, because we are heading head first into a financial depression, welcome to rationing food and energy!
-10
HorsyNox1 day ago
+7
It is a loan, not just a gift, though
7
Felonphantom1 day ago
+3
It's called a loan but zelensky has said they will only give the money back if Russia gives reparations. So it is unlikely to ever comeback.
3
LucasSkywalker891 day ago
+1
Keep telling yourself that, when the loan is to be paid with Russian reparations towards Ukraine, it is basically a gift.
1
Tabbyredcat1 day ago
+15
Haven't you learned anything from WW2? We let an authoritarian government invade a country, they say "well that was easy, I'll take another country now" and we get another world war.
The money we invest into avoiding that is well spent money, even if we don't get it back in decades.
Oil and gas prices are worldwide, supply is not. US and Israel started this shit, they end it.
15
LucasSkywalker891 day ago
-28
We didn't have any problem with China or North Korea or many warlords in Africa... what are we the EU if not an Economic Union? We are not a military union, we are part of NATO, a defensive alliance or how Trump puts it, US's puppy dogs.
I do not support we continue to help Ukraine when we are on the brink of a WW3, potential invasion of US forces in Greenland and a major economic crisis, at some point we got to say we tried everything we could and let them deal with the problem, i also think Zelensky has some EU politicians and maybe state leaders by the balls as they have done some stuff behind the scenes that were not democratic, but that is my opinion.
-28
100BottlesOfMilk9 hr ago
+1
Well, none of those tried to invade Europe
1
Several-Zombies65471 day ago
-20
>Ukraine can not lose this war
I don't think anyone expects them to win. Despite all the financial help, they are still losing territory, but at a slower pace. The aid is basically aimed to minimize the damage, until Russia decides to stop.
Edit: What's up with the downvotes? For stating the reality and not some fairy tale?
-20
Tabbyredcat1 day ago
+14
For four years I haven't expected them to win, but now I do. Ukraine's strategy of blowing up Russia's main income sources clearly works. Russia's enormous territory is also their weakness. Impossible to defend such big borders. The country that runs out of money loses, always.
14
wasmic1 day ago
+2
Your truth is only a narrow piece of the whole truth, and that leads you to a false conclusion.
It's true that Ukraine has been losing territory - but in the last two months, Ukraine has actually been regaining more land than they have lost. And no, the aid is not a matter of minimising the damages until Russia decides to stop.
You're looking at this extremely simplistically. Control of land does not matter much when you're in a war of attrition; ability to keep going matters a lot more. Both Russia and Ukraine have shown themselves to have a strong will to keep fighting (Russia due to apathy, Ukraine because they're fighting for their survival), so who wins will be down to whose economy lasts longest.
And currently, Ukraine is winning that fight.
Russia's economy is slowly winding down. It's not headed to a huge collapse, no, but every month puts it in a worse state than it was before. The Ukrainian economy, on the other hand, will remain strong as long as Europe keeps supporting them.
In terms of the strategic campaign: when the war started, Russia was sending five times as much ordnance towards Ukrainian power plants, factories and cities as Ukraine was sending the other way. Just two weeks ago, Ukraine surpassed Russia, and Ukraine's long-range strike capability is growing a lot faster than Russia's is. It's getting to the point where Ukraine can take out large chunks of Russia's oil refining and oil export capacity, often reducing it by more than 30 %.
2
Remarkable_Beach_5451 day ago
+6
I just recently read an article https://www.financership.com/eu-2-7-billion-ukraine-reforms-funding/
where some of the EU "enlargement commission" funding was unlocked for Ukraine because they were continuing to pass some of the economic reforms required, and i took this OP as Zelensky saying he wants to continue down this path to full membership while getting the work done. Am I wrong?
6
suddenstutter1 day ago
+33
This post is so full of ru bots. Mad.
33
Foreign-Gazelle17051 day ago
+9
seriously I'm genuinely baffled. They are treating war like its just a petty classroom fight!
9
Future_Mousse_3551 day ago
+18
I'm all for Ukraine to beat the c*** out of Russia but they must be aware that a EU membership can only come after the war is over. Sorry.
18
hisgoldfish1 day ago
+28
And only after all required reforms are made.
28
junkyardfloozy1 day ago
+1
There are [alternative accession models](https://ecfr.eu/article/political-accession-first-a-new-pact-for-ukraine-to-join-the-eu/) being developed that don't compromise EU standards but also act timely and in the interests of both the EU and the joining nation.
1
Haunting_Switch346322 hr ago
+1
But Zelensky wants full membership, not some watered down version.
1
skildert1 day ago
-1
They're well aware you're sorry... And that they must meet the criteria.
-1
Separate-Problem-2701 day ago
-13
But what if this lasts *Forever* ?
Like what if the conflict never actually ends ?
What happens then?
-13
pacstermito1 day ago
+12
Then there's no joining.
12
CucumberWisdom1 day ago
-12
Nah, we should figure out a compromise
-12
Informal_Witness38691 day ago
+3
Wouldn't a "partial" or "honorific" membership actually help them? Aren't there economical perks that would provide them with more help for the war effort and later reconstruction and then be able to actually meet the EU criteria?
3
Softwaretester40001 day ago
Why would EU have to pay for reconstruction?
Moreover, the Ukrainian working men are either dead, fighting or don't want to come back to Ukraine ever again.
0
Frequent-Chain-60822 days ago
-4
Which is unreasonable and undeserved. Ukraine is not ready, regardless of the war.
-4
AncientAdvisor82981 day ago
+1
If Ukraine will be with Russia, Europe will be sad. Do you want this shit?
1
dieg_ramp19 hr ago
+1
We know, they give more money than the real members.
1
lintu3-_-1 day ago
-8
Ukraine is defending Europe and we need them. If Russia gets Ukraine we are in for taking. We need them they know it and could go with Russia and join them if they lose. I get a lot here for saying this would not happen but as a coder. If UKR part of RUS == EU and Scandinavia(Norway not in EU) fucked. Military systems are something that west are not used to in a long time.
-8
opinelmavric1 day ago
-10
gobbled up all the propaganda
-10
niemacotuwpisac1 day ago
-2
OK, so full commitment, full rights, full responsibilities. In my opinion, at last a decade for negotiation etc.
Additionally, don't split the bear's skin. You are in war with Russia and nothing is decided. Focus on wining the war...
-2
ThickArt64921 day ago
-22
I'm tired of him.
Europe (and the West) should've used force way back in 2014. Russia should've been crushed. Instead here we are, 12 years later, and we're bleeding money as Europeans, Ukrainians are bleeding on the battlefield, for what?
-22
Rincetron11 day ago
+15
\> Ukrainians are bleeding on the battlefield, for what?
To not be subject to foreign power, who's destroying their cities and shelling civilians. Let me know if there's any more questions, I'm happy to help.
15
vast-pear-crayfish1 day ago
+1
poor you, tired of him, you have to listen to him saying things while he is fighting for his peoples survival and you are sitting in your parents' warm cozy house while over there families are getting separated daily, poor little you
1
Evil_Eg2 days ago
-23
In response, EU members are holding back, saying that while Ukraine is useful as a shield, we don't really want it in the EU.
-23
Rincetron11 day ago
+6
1. They don't say that.
2. They're the 2nd most corrupted country in Europe, after Russia. They have taken strides to get rid of it, but there's still a lot of work ahead.
3. They are a *European country.* If they manage to maintain a democratic leadership and a sustainable economy, why on earth would they **not** be welcome to the union?
6
Benur211 day ago
2. There is always a 2nd most corrupted country.
0
Evil_Eg1 day ago
-10
For the third question, how many European countries are eligible to join the EU but have never managed to or shown interest in doing so?
-10
Rincetron11 day ago
You're confused as to how conversations work.
You don't get to spout complete and utter bullshit, and then play the captain of this conversation. Talking with you would be like plugging holes in a sinking ship. I plug one hole, and in that time you've created two others. You can see how that's not a real conversation, but you just pivoting to whatever you want next.
I explained in my reply why you're wrong -- what you do with that information is out of my hands now.
0
Medium_Term34241 day ago
Of course. Ukraine will definitely have earned some reputation, but there are strict rules and legal requirements, which ukraine was very far away from fulfilling even before the invasion. Weak rule of law, deep corruption, oligarchs, and much more. The progress was slow in many areas.
They are working on it, but EU membership is not something you give away for bravery or out of compassion.
0
SPQR-Tightanus1 day ago
+1
>They are working on it, but EU membership is not something you give away for bravery or out of compassion.
Really, EU membership was given away for much less in case of some existing members.
1
Zahkrosis1 day ago
-18
Good. Then they can wait till they fix their shit after getting out of the war.
-18
Ok-Championship49451 day ago
-29
This bravado is simply creating no new obstacles. This guys had the biggest opportunity to introduce reforms ever (he has majority it parliament, ministers and the president). All power in one hands, but still there were no reforms done to be ready for EU. No reforms, no membership.
As far as I understand it, he doesn’t want to join EU at all, cause there would be more regulations. It’s better for him to be a little king in a little kingdom, rather than giving up the chair
-29
Perfect_Opposite21131 day ago
+4
Sounds like you have Joe Rogan level of understanding of the situation.
4
Ok-Championship49451 day ago
-2
I lived in Ukraine from 2019 to 2024. I've seen it. How about you? You just watched the news, right?
-2
Ok_Pin_45541 day ago
-5
Ukraine started EU integration process back in 1994. Wonder when she'll be ready?
-5
ManatuBear1 day ago
+1
When they meet all the requirements like every other country trying to join.
The faster they do the required changes and implement all required laws and regulations (in reality, doing it on paper is not enough) , the faster they will become members. It would be unfair to other countries trying to join to open exceptions for the Ukraine.
1
Alarming_Airline_692 days ago
-38
Ukraine WILL NOT JOIN EU
-38
Araminal1 day ago
+5
Boris, dat you?
5
Inevitable-Push-80611 day ago
-36
I hope Turkey will be accepted before Ukraine, as it is both economically and militarily a stronger candidate.
-36
Several-Zombies65471 day ago
+17
No thanks, Turkey has a horrible human rights record.
17
Piggywonkle1 day ago
+14
Good luck convincing Cyprus or Greece at this point, lmfao
14
Unhappy_Flatworm_3251 day ago
+1
Económicamente lo sabia, pero no estaba al tanto de sus fuerzas militares
69 Comments