I remember when the war started everyone said it wouldn't last long, that russia wouldn't be able to keep up the expense. Not just here on listnook, but also from "expert reporters" on youtube.
4 years later, why hasn't it ended like it was supposed to?
49
Bulky_Reveal_19372 days ago
+82
Because Russia didn’t become the isolated entity we had hoped they’d become.
-The east, like India, still trades with them.
-China has filled the gap Europe left in trade deficit.
-Russia is in wartime economy and can save on quite a few “luxury” expenses without their people rising up because they were never a proper democracy to begin with.
-Russia has gigantic cold war/Soviet stockpiles and this is the perfect war to deplete them.
-North Korea has supplied them.
-Iran has supplied them with their c**** drone technology and taught them how to make it themselves. (very c**** to make compared to missiles.)
-Putin is not a rational man who wants what’s best for his nation. He’s getting old. He has burning ambitions to restore the soviet union and a passionate hate towards Ukraine. He will not back down.
82
SolemnaceProcurement2 days ago
+12
And war economy is basically debt towards real economy. Yeah you can redrict expanses to military. But it's all defered maintanance. Sooner or later it will hit you in the ass with 10 fold the cost. Russia already had that with USSR, due to crisis there was basically no maintance or repairs done on infrastructure in the 80-90ties in eastern block. And it costs an absolute assload to fix it up once economy was back on truck, in many cases it's still not all fixed and in just as many cases infrastructure had to be abandoned to focus on more important one.
12
Bulky_Reveal_19372 days ago
+6
Yes, but that will not be Putin’s problem. He’ll be dead by the time this wartime economy works. And Russia’s population has been conditioned to be unable to oppose it.
6
[deleted]2 days ago
+11
[deleted]
11
Quasar3752 days ago
+23
They will never reach 0 tanks in their inventory. They simply use them in fewer abr fewer numbers until they more or less reach a stable output/loss ratio. But their huge amount of tanks has pretty much ended.
23
Kevadu2 days ago
+3
That's why they have resorted to using donkeys
3
FanOpening30742 days ago
+2
Europe bought from them too, well into the war. Are they still buying it?
2
Zwonder742 days ago
+4
Yep. Hes human and his ego wants him to triple down his decision. Sunk cost fallacy in action. This is why countries should never allow 1 person to have all the power. Imagine what trump would do if he was president for life. Thank god for term limits
4
thomasbeagle1 day ago
+1
There's a lot of people hoping that Trump is president for life...
1
Rubicon2-02 days ago
+1
[ Removed by Listnook ]
1
Khamvom2 days ago
+17
China stepped in and provided an economic lifeline to Russia. Trade between them has surged 30-50% since the war started and China essentially filled the gap that other nations left behind.
North Korean and Iran have also been providing military support (weapons, equipment, troops, etc).
17
Colbert20202 days ago
+25
The question is, why haven't you been paying attention to the most destructive war in our lifetime? Ukraine is more devastated than it was in World War 2. They lost more than 60% of all their energy infrastructure. Over 1 million in casualties; likely half a million dead. Over 10 million displaced. Tens of thousands of children abducted.
Ukraine has lost a lot of territory in these 4 years. Invading soldiers are told if they get a home, they can keep it. That's how you occupy territory: You make people settle there.
As for why the war has not ended: Russia has 140 million people. Even though casualties are high, they replenish them because they pay them relatively well. The timeline of the war as I remember it played out like this:
Russia overextended and vastly misjudged the population's reaction. Russia lost a ton of armored units to Javelins. The HIMARs were pivotal against Russian artilley. Western aid from the USA and EU kept Ukraine barely afloat. We saw in real time the tech tree of warfare start to fill out with drones between both nations: Ukraine's FPV drone factories and Russia's deployment of the Iranian Shahed. There is alot of symmetry between them now in terms of what each deploys, but Ukraine is seen as the expert now.
The war seems like it's in a stalemate, but the fighting is intense every day. There are aerial drones constantly surveying the battlefield at 100% coverage. They don't consider them "front lines" but instead "kill zones." If they see you, in 10 minutes a drone will make contact and detonate a IED on you. Every day hundreds of long strikes come from Russia, from ballistic missiles to drones, aimed at military and civilian targets.
25
Aedeus2 days ago
+6
Because they had an immense war chest that they'd been building for years, arguably a decade, prior to the invasion?
Because they're doing irreparable harm to their economy and exhausting every conceivable financial angle to continue to prosecute this conflict?
Because they're now relying on North Korea and until lately Iran, to supply them with munitions and personnel - in addition to enlisting huge numbers of foreign mercenaries?
6
ThisIsChangableRight2 days ago
+12
Everyone was correct that the Russians couldn't bear the cost of war from their income alone, but they underestimated how large the soviet era stockpiles are. The war will probably continue until the Russians finish depleting those stockpiles.
12
datumerrata2 days ago
+10
They were also resupplied by North Korea
10
raikou19882 days ago
+8
Also china
8
CmonTouchIt2 days ago
+5
Also Iran
5
DigitaIBlack2 days ago
+8
This. According to Listnook Russia has been on the verge of economic collapse or rubbing out of X for like 3 years at this point.
8
GAdvance2 days ago
+10
They ARE running out of X
But running out is usually not a totally binary thing if the country maintains the ability to make a replacement, you simply lower the usage rate to meet the loss rates and keep on doing so.
It degraded the ability of your armed forces to actually fight to do so, which is why the war has become a stalemate
Russia changed it's doctrines multiple times during this war, not just to try to be better at war but to cope with equipment loss and inability to follow modern doctrines. They operate separate line and assault infantry specialised in infiltration style assaults that was doctrine at the end of world war ONE.
Russia basically ran out of useable tanks and tank firnstions quite a while ago, same for IFV stocks, MRAPs are gone almost totally with no resupply, KA52 numbers have been halved (and aren't being replaced), all attack aircraft don't even approach the grey zone but operate well behind their own front line. They're essentially out of traditional tube artillery, both sides lost all if those a while ago. The average age of a Russian soldier now is around 50...
Running out isn't binary, it's a degradation of capability.
Why do you think this war has such an incredibly thin front line and is basically just lots of tiny skirmishes over trenches and bunkers with half a dozen men 2 km from the nearest ally, it's not just drive warfare it's also Russia running out of most main heavy equipment.
10
FeynmansWitt2 days ago
+3
Listnook experts got things wrong but more importantly western coverage, because it is pro Ukraine, tends to portray the Russian situation as worse than it really is. Partly fog of war, partly propaganda to keep morale and aid going
3
Linclin2 days ago
The US, Hungary and other Russian allies have made sure Russia hasn't run out of money. They have literally given them billions through projects and lifting sanctions and have weakened Europe also via wars, creating internal conflicts and blocking/shorting/diverting/stopping aid. They always pull some scheme.
0
Inevitable_Butthole2 days ago
-2
Because the US got a baboon destroying the country so others are able to easily support russia to further harm US
-2
SZEfdf212 days ago
I hardly saw any sentiment like this at the start, so I'm not sure your 'everyone' is correct.
That said the russian liquid reserves have halved since 2021, recruitment costs are being gradually driven upwards or they can't find people to fight their war, and they've been unable to replenish stocks of ground vehicles.
0
Capable-Schedule17532 days ago
+1
[ Removed by Listnook ]
1
Israel_Trump_Fan2 days ago
-13
Is 90% the propaganda number or the real number?
-13
Colbert20202 days ago
+13
It is not propaganda. In the sense that it is based off of recorded incidents in reality, not some rhetoric.
[https://isis-online.org/isis-reports/monthly-analysis-of-russian-shahed-136-deployment-against-ukraine](https://isis-online.org/isis-reports/monthly-analysis-of-russian-shahed-136-deployment-against-ukraine)
In 2026, there were 6462 launches and 5932 interceptions.
These are not all Shahed. Some are diversion drones, etc. The Shahed hits are recorded at 12%.
I wonder if people are looking at this and just shrug it off. There are hundreds of drones launched against Ukraine's civilians every day. Their daycares, their hospitals, their schools.
13
Israel_Trump_Fan2 days ago
-5
The funny thing is I actually follow his war closely and the real number is less then 50% and under 15% for SRBMs.
-5
Colbert20202 days ago
+7
The data points in what I linked is about drone interception. Ukraine doesn't have an abundance of interceptors for ballistic missiles.
7
[deleted]2 days ago
+2
[deleted]
2
Israel_Trump_Fan2 days ago
-5
Which is exactly why 90% is a pure propaganda number.
-5
Frothar2 days ago
+3
Almost certainly real. They have been facing shaheed/geran for years s and they are not difficult to take down
3
Israel_Trump_Fan2 days ago
-13
I follow this war closely and that's the propaganda number, yes gerans are easy to shoot down but Russia launches them in waves of nearly 1000, it's saturation tactics and most get through. If we're talking ballistic missiles, leaked UA figures has >97% getting through.
Probably propaganda. 90% are the best case scenarios for slow drones. Attacks with cruise missiles/Iskanders the rates plummet.
[Syrskyi Powerpoints](https://youtu.be/b6JtJY9OQ28?si=jK6_dZ9BV0_gZnEh) slides from a year or so ago gave us %60 of all drones and %25 of all missiles.
-7
Colbert20202 days ago
+3
The 90% number is not rhetoric. It is a collection of data from recorded launches and strikes.
[https://isis-online.org/isis-reports/monthly-analysis-of-russian-shahed-136-deployment-against-ukraine](https://isis-online.org/isis-reports/monthly-analysis-of-russian-shahed-136-deployment-against-ukraine)
3
Israel_Trump_Fan2 days ago
-6
I follow this war and it's clearly propaganda. Russia launches drones in waves in close to 1000. You're never going to see a interception rate that high against saturation tactics. Regardless, if we're talking BMs, Ukraines interception rate is 10% at most.
-6
Colbert20202 days ago
+5
Sure thing chief, Hidden Comment User, 3 Week Old, Totally\_Not\_A\_Bot.
Stay in your lane in Australia. Your comments are not hidden.
5
PerfectReflection1552 days ago
-6
Come on that is old tech now. The US navy has lasers that can shoot down missiles and Israel recently implemented lasers to shoot down rockets.
The solution here is that Ukraine needs lasers
-6
Serpace2 days ago
+5
You can't use lasers against ballistic missiles iirc. They are too fast in terminal phase and lasers have limited effective range. Wouldn't have enough time to destroy the missile and even if it could somehow do it, it's still likely falling exactly where it's aiming.
Lasers are great for slower moving targets.
5
PerfectReflection1552 days ago
-6
I fact checked that and no it does in fact shoot down long range ballistic missiles. There is also live video demonstrations as it is active in Israel as we speak.
-6
CroGamer0022 days ago
+4
Good luck mass producing lasers and infrastructure to support it to cover major locations in Ukraine, while still having enough for own use.
Bouncing to fancy new tech every time there's new development will leave you without means to defend. You need to settle on things to build on scale. You can always tweak any issues during mass production, while down the line new tech can be scaled up.
4
SZEfdf212 days ago
+1
Nobody has lasers that are tested on ballistic missiles.
1
EndOfDecadence1 day ago
+1
Ok general Armchair.
1
StompingChip2 days ago
Why dont they make VT Fuzes?
0
daynomate2 days ago
Could high speed drones intercept or trigger explode any of these ballistic threats if they’re targeted earlier? Or is the kinetic force already too great to easily counter without large countering payload?
0
GAdvance2 days ago
+7
Yes to shahed drones.
Likely no to ballistic missiles, they're too fast to hit basically.
Drones aren't the best all end all solution and actually some of the most effective anti-ballisitic missile systems do just fire a mmhigh velocity interceptor with NO payload.
7
SZEfdf212 days ago
+1
The problem with ballistic missiles is their enormeous speeds when descending towards the target, which means your interceptor also has to be very fast (too fast for anything called a drone).
1
torpedospurs2 days ago
-14
After watching the Arab countries and Israel flail as they are being hit by Iran despite having all the Patriots and Iron Domes that money can buy, does anyone believe Ukraine when they make such announcements anymore?
-14
you-just-me2 days ago
+1
I've recently learned that usa "interceptor" type missiles are good for low speed drones and cruise missiles and not very effective for "fast" hyper-sonic missiles (like the russian oreshnik and some iranian missiles). Take a look at Ted Postol interviews on YT.
1
SilentBumblebee32252 days ago
+1
I didn’t believe them before either. Ukraine claims a 99% interception rate, but then still taking damage
51 Comments