It's kinda laughable that this meaningless war has now exceeded the duration of WW2 for Russia.
228
finniruse3 days ago
+61
Wow. That's wild.
61
Ok_Chemical_70513 days ago
+22
Not really. So many wars drag out for years. Decades or more even. Intermittently in some cases depending on where in the world and throughout history.
If all the Major powers are in all out war, it really can’t sustain a long period of time. So big wars are short.
22
finniruse3 days ago
+10
Yer, you're right. I just hadn't heard it framed that way before. It's true. WWII is such a monumental event, with so much that happened, it's interesting to think that this war has now eclipsed it in length.
10
Ok_Chemical_70513 days ago
No doubt. And if you think of it. This is the first real war in Europe since WW2. So it does come as a shock. And I agree. It does seem meaningless. I believe Putin might start to be looking for a bit of an off ramp himself. So he might be willing to make some meaningful concessions. But who knows with that guy.
0
mynewleng3 days ago
+4
So what were the Yugoslav wars then?
4
Flexuasive2 days ago
+6
As an ex-Yu resident, the wars were not threatening to any country that wasn't part of Yugoslavia. It was, realistically speaking, a strictly regional conflict contained in a very specific area. The hungarian man didn't have to fear his serbian neighbour. The entire Europe would have had to face Russia, had they prevailed in Ukraine.
In many ways, Europe did face Russia in Ukraine, albeit indirectly. The ex-Yu wars were left to the devices of the ex-Yu peoples.
6
Least_Catch_52611 day ago
+1
People need to stop with the rhetoric of Russia would have invaded more countries/NATO after Ukraine. It would have never happened in a million years. Fancical thinking.
1
finniruse3 days ago
+1
Funnily enough, right at this moment I'm listening to an interview with Zelenksky. He just said exactly the this. And a Bllomberg article just dropped saying two countries might strike a peace accord.
1
ExpensiveCover9503 days ago
+3
Yes - interestingly, South and North Korea are still technically at war.
3
Least1Difficulty3 days ago
+20
And the soldiers returning home will tell horror stories of being beaten and tortured for fun by their officers, and how they were made to give up food rations and pay to officers and forced to fight in cage matches. Seriously, the amount of pure hate and humiliation the front-line soldiers will be returning home with is going to be a massive problem for Russa.
20
foghillgal3 days ago
+12
Yeah, nothing \*heroic\* here unlike after WWII . It\`s a mashup of Vietnam and Afghanistan put even more deadly and pointless.
12
to_glory_we_steer3 days ago
+8
Oh this was going on long before the Russia's wars against Ukraine. Look up "dedovshchina", the r***, violence and extortion by the Russian armed forces towards their own is endemic and quite appalling. I don't want to list some of the worst stories because they're truly appalling.
8
trow_eu2 days ago
+4
This war is going on for 12 years already.
4
DrQuestDFA2 days ago
+2
Surely now is when Russia will deploy those elite, fully supplied formations we were told existed at the start of the war to deliver a final, smashing blow to Ukraine.
2
Living_Cash10373 days ago
+3
WW2 is actually fairly brief as far as most war go. Some drag on for decades. But, yeah considering this is border war with a much smaller neighbor, Russia should of been able to take over Ukraine by now if they were competent.
3
autistic_insomniac52 days ago
+2
It’s been a complete stalemate for all these years with very little changes in the battle lines. What a waste of young men and resources with over a million casualties just on the Russian side. All for a few kilometers of territorial gains.
2
Systembreaker113 days ago
+2
WWII lasted 6 years, the US got in 2 years late.
2
Imbendo3 days ago
+2
War duration is irrelevant. Intensity is the true measure. US was in Afghanistan for 20 years.
2
FudgingEgo3 days ago
+1
The US's Afghan war was 5x the length of WW2 for the US.
Iraq war was double the US' involvement in WW2.
1
Markis_Shepherd3 days ago
+29
I don’t believe it. I can think of one reason for why Russia wants peace though. With the horrible relationship between Europe and the Trump administration, and the energy crisis, Russia may think that they have a chance to enter European energy markets again.
29
AVatorL3 days ago
+17
russia doesn't want any peace. russia may agree to a temporary fake peace deal so 1) Trump (and potentially other idiots) can use it as a pretext for lifting sanctions and starting to feed russian economy with money 2) to stop Ukrainian attacks on oil and gas infrastructure 3) to regroup and attack again, either Ukraine or the Baltic countries.
17
Boyhowdy1073 days ago
+5
It'd probably be better for them tactically. The US and Europe are drifting apart. Who knows where middle Eastern oil/gas is going to normalize at the moment, so Putin could well gain more by shifting back to a cold war with Europe, running influence campaigns, selling to a reluctant EU who is also trying to limit reliance on US exports. Using the windfall to rebuild a depleted military. It's far from what he wanted, but he's getting a golden parachute option from Trump to still come out stronger geopolitically.
5
slm832 days ago
-1
Europe has continued to buy Russian oil during the war. They continue if there is peace.
-1
Markis_Shepherd2 days ago
+5
Well, you should take a look at what AMOUNTS we buy today compared to before the war. 👀
5
slm832 days ago
No doubt, but it would go back up again.
0
iforgotthepassword13 days ago
+74
Not once has Russia ever said it wants peace. Why believe any of this
74
wswordsmen3 days ago
+12
The two parties are still very far apart on the deal they would actually accept. Until then all talk is just that talk and won't lead anywhere.
12
Gargamel8133 days ago
+3
Because ukrainian officials say they are hopeful lately, and they are the best placed to know.
If they are hopeful, I am.
3
Boyhowdy1073 days ago
+2
Who knows. Maybe they are calculating they have more to gain while the US is imploding NATO and the price of their only real exports is skyrocketing and how that will settle is to be seen by being a hypothetical threat rather than one actively engaged in war. Take a deal, get unsanctioned, make money, rebuild and wait to see where you can fit into the new world order as it shakes out while conducting your usual subversive influence on an unstable Europe.
Honestly, it would be the smarter move.
2
clamorous_owle3 days ago
+57
Peace is very easy if Russian troops return to internationally recognized borders. Everybody knows who started this war. There is no room for *bothsiderism* here.
57
defroach843 days ago
-21
That's easy to say online, reality is that Ukraine will likely have to give some up. Russia can outlast Ukraine, at this point, from a manpower standpoint.
As shitty as it is, that's just the reality.
But, yeah, peace would be easy if Russia just left.
-21
Epyr3 days ago
+11
It's not obvious that Russia can outlast Ukraine though. I hear that said a lot but it isn't backed up by what's happening on the ground. Ukraine has clearly removed most of the gap in armed strength between the two countries and as long as the EU keeps supporting them like they have so far that doesn't seem to be going to change.
It's not the Ukraine doesn't have issues, but Russia does as well
11
defroach843 days ago
-3
It's not about arms, but man power. Russia just has more people they can send into grinder than Ukraine. Correct me if I'm wrong there, but if this continues going for, let's say 4 more years, how can Ukraine continue to supply people for it.
I honestly hope I'm wrong, and Ukraine does get to keep their land.
-3
SarakosAganos3 days ago
+3
It depends on how efficient Ukraine is at killing Russians. With the population disparity, Ukraine would need to kill about 4-5 Russians for every Ukrainian casualty. That's a high bar but not impossible, especially since the onus is on Russia to be on the attack into prepared defenses to conquer Ukraine.
I totally get your (very valid) concern though, I'm just some armchair listnookor clinging to hope that Ukraine gets a well deserved total victory.
3
defroach843 days ago
+2
We both are. I'm curious the numbers of foreigners Russia has vs Ukraine as well fighting for them. Russia was actively using NK for some time.
2
Colbert20202 days ago
+1
I've been following the Russian invasion of Ukraine closely for years and talk to people who live there. This defroach84 guy has no idea what he's talking about.
Even though these listnookors forget, the Ukrainians remember what happened in 2014. They were invaded by Russia, they gave up Crimea, and there was a truce. Then in 2022, invades again and wants to take the Donbas. They aren't stupid. They know Russia will be back in invade again.
Remember, when Russia started this war, they went right for the capital. They will not stop until all of Ukraine is subjugated and they displace the Ukrainians with Russians.
Yes, this war is a nightmare. But they do not want to give up the Donbas because they want Russia to have expended all this manpower and gain nothing. It will destroy Putin politically. He knows it. That's why he will never stop the war without some kind of victory.
Drones have changed the nature of this war. Defenders have a tremendous advantage, and Ukraine's manufacturing has shifted towards their production. There are over 500 decentralized factories and garaged building and outfitting drones.
1
Epyr3 days ago
+2
Russian manpower is not as unlimited as you seem to think. The fact that businesses are having to give workers directly to the military supports that they are no where near as strong on that front as you/much of the internet seems to think
2
defroach843 days ago
-1
You think it's any different in Ukraine?
-1
Epyr3 days ago
+1
No, I think both countries are struggling with Ukrainian long term outlooks being superior due to the support of the EU. If Ukraine loses foreign support it's done for but it does not appear that support is going anywhere.
1
DustyBowl3 days ago
+1
I think war fatigue also plays a role. For Ukraine its a matter of survival. Russia is doing conquest. Motivation is higher on UA side.
1
Colbert20202 days ago
+1
1 Soldier takes 15-20 years to mature, must be equipped and trained. Ukraine has over 500+ factories and garages, pumping out up to 1 million drones per year costing 2-3k.
There are no front lines anymore. Only killzones where drones buzz around to maim and kill those soldiers.
1
Colbert20202 days ago
+1
What a load of shit from someone that only reads headlines and doesn't follow the actual war. Drones have completely changes the dynamic of what "manpower" does anymore. If you've been following this war, you'd realize that drones are a cost-effective nightmare for invading soldiers. It is a tremendous defender's advantage. And when I say "nightmare", I mean it literally. FPV drones are capturing videos of Russian soldiers committing suicide in increasing numbers.
Consider this: Russia has been shooting ballistic missiles and artillery at Ukraine's manufacturing and energy infrastructure for four years. They also launched over 50,000 Shahed drones, courtesy of the innocent little nation of Iran, killing hundreds and injuring thousands. Despite all of this, Russia has still not won.
At this point, Ukraine has so much decentralized manufacturing for their defensive anti-infantry and anti-Shahed drones, that Russia has no hope in actually gaining ground. There is no ground to gain. Only entering kill-zones of drones.
Sure, Russia can continue to terrorize towns and villages. Maiming the elderly and dumping them in mass graves. But, there is no real answer to drone warfare. It is too cost-effective and a tremendous advantage for defenders. Ukrainians are fighting a battle for survival.
1
[deleted]3 days ago
-19
[deleted]
-19
clamorous_owle3 days ago
+5
Putin won't last forever. He disappears for weeks at a time, presumably for health reasons. The [latest stretch of Putin absences ](https://monitoring.bbc.co.uk/product/b0003oq4)dates back to the start of April.
When he goes, internal support for his war will rapidly decrease.
5
Big_Introduction19523 days ago
+39
Russia’s history is full of broken peace deals. Doubt this will be different, if they even accept one.
39
LewisKIII3 days ago
+9
I believe none on this!
If Russia wants peace they need to get the f*** out of Ukraine!
9
bonyponyride3 days ago
+4
Putin will forever have a target on his back for what he's done to Ukrainian civilians and I doubt Russia will ever stop trying to assassinate Zelenskyy.
4
Slow-Recipe14383 days ago
+9
That's bad because the minute there is a peace deal Russia will prepare for an assault on the Baltics.
9
TheGodPePe3 days ago
+2
By the way, the Bloomberg article came out as WTI reached 100. And it immediately dropped right afterwards
2
Life-is-beautiful-3 days ago
+2
Looks like they figured out that they cannot beat the middle east drama in terms of stupidity and mindlessness. So, they decided to throw the towel.
2
elfd012 days ago
+2
Don’t know why is he telling that, but nothing will going to happen until Russia is stopped on the battlefield.
2
AnastasiaWookieTits3 days ago
+2
If this were actually true, guaranteed Trump will try to interject himself for the sole purpose of claiming credit. If they are moving toward serious discussions, Ukraine's energy strikes are a huge part of the why. Otherwise, there'd be no hurry for Russia. Putin wouldn't care about how many more Russians he'd have to send off to get droned.
2
PoliticsIsDepressing3 days ago
+2
Look at that. Trump ended the war in Ukraine by starting a war in Iran.
2
Lonely-Abalone-51043 days ago
+2
Ukraine should just keep going and start taking over parts of Russia to make up for the shit Russia put them through. It’s not even fair that Russia just gets to stop when it feels like can’t win.
2
Cameronx883 days ago
+1
Is anyone able to please link to a non paywalled version of the article?
1
stoic_insults3 days ago
+1
Again ?
1
DazzliCarpenter3 days ago
+1
Peace talks are always complicated, especially after this much damage. If anything comes out of this, it’ll likely take time and a lot of compromise.
1
efrique2 days ago
+1
I bet they don't. Putin makes regular peace noises to keep Trump hard, but he keeps bombing civilians the whole time...
1
marlinspike2 days ago
+1
Waiting for Trump to claim this as his hard won peace.
1
SlueCcroll2 days ago
+1
Putin must be from Venus, since one day there lasts for like 250 earth days, which makes the 3 day operation way more accurate.
1
Fancy_Exchange_98213 days ago
-1
End this f****** war already. Thats all I have to say 🤷
-1
I_like_biscuits3 days ago
+21
Not if the cost is capitulation.
If Russia comes out well they and others will do it again.
21
IntelArtiGen3 days ago
+3
In the end, it's up to the ukrainians to decide, and it seems they want the war to end. Either that or NATO does in Ukraine what North Korea did in Russia. If we don’t fight with them, we have no say in the matter; it is the Ukrainians who are dying on the front lines.
3
I_like_biscuits3 days ago
+9
I agree it’s up to the Ukrainians, which is why we should listen to what they’re saying.. they aren't asking for a way to surrender.
Most surveys show that while they want the war to end, over 70% don't believe current negotiations will lead to a 'lasting peace' if they involve major concessions.
By supporting them, we aren't 'taking away their say'—we’re giving them the means to avoid a peace that looks like a slow-motion defeat..
9
IntelArtiGen3 days ago
It's probably kind of humiliating for Russia to see that it's actually possible to do a war like the one in Iran. I think 13 US soldiers have been killed after 1 month? How many are they losing in Ukraine every month, 5000? And it also shows it's possible to have a ceasefire quite quickly when countries at war want it.
0
Mindless_Way99403 days ago
+13
They're losing roughly 30,000 casualties a month, to the attrition rate is insane but then so are is the sheer insane number of Russian's who are happy to die for nothing.
13
NOODL33 days ago
+3
Russia's war is an invasion to capture and hold land. You must have boots on the ground to do so.
America's war is a series of surgical strikes to decapitate leadership and knock out military capabilities, but with no apparent designs for capturing territory.
They aren't really comparable at all.
3
IntelArtiGen3 days ago
+3
I'm comparing the initial goal with the result. The US didn't invade Iran, not because they didn't want to, but more realistically because they knew they couldn't. Something russians should have known before they invaded Ukraine. The US was able to configure their war, with the constraint to minimize casualties and duration of the war. You can't invade another country like that in 5 weeks, I mean you should know you can't, and Russia seemingly didn't. If you can't, then you don't, and you do something else. Their goal wasn't that different, Russia doesn't really want to annex Ukraine, they want a satellite state, like Belarus. They can't have that so they resorted to annexation, but if they could just have all ukrainians on their side they would prefer, and the US would probably also prefer that for iranians. The strategy russians used to have ukrainians on their side completely failed for everyone during 4 (12) years. Has the US strategy failed? It seems so for now, but there was no point in making it last longer because I don't think they would be more successful if it did.
I'm not using moral considerations to compare the two situations, like obviously I haven't seen Ukraine launch hundreds of missiles on Russia or a friend of Russia before the war. It's just: you have a problem => you see what you're ready to do, to try to solve it => you try it => it works / it doesn't but it ends quickly in a controlled way with "minimal" damage (compared to what Russia has lost in Ukraine).
If Russia did this, they would have ended the war after 2 months and would not have been humiliated. But I'm also not sure the only goal of Putin in Ukraine, was Ukraine. His war is also a way to control his society and he's probably continuing for this reason, we all know he won't go much further in Ukraine, but it doesn't stop him because he doesn't care that much.
3
Secret_Wishbone_20093 days ago
+2
Not sure the last word has been said there yet
2
IntelArtiGen3 days ago
+1
Yeah I'm being optimistic at least on the short term.
1
Airf0rce3 days ago
+2
Russia built a fantasy version of their own military that only existed in their dreams and then leadership gave them a task that was based on wrong information, massively underestimating Ukraine's will to fight with goals exceeding their capabilities. Just an all around disaster. This is what happens when you build chain of liars selling their bullshit to their higher-ups until it reaches man at the top who makes decisions based on fantasties.
After a few months, it was too much sunk into the invasion for Putin to just pull away, humiliation alone would probably break the Russia's political system, so it continues until one party wears out.
That said, I would say Ukrainians have shown to be more formiddable foe than Iran. They knew Russia as enemy really well, including knowing weaknesses of their command and tech (given they shared much of it). Technological gap between Iran and US is also much bigger than RU/UA , especially after Ukraine started receiving aid from the West and improving their own stuff.
Iran on the other hand was only succesfull at terrorizing civilian targets and scoring limited amount of hits on some high value US military targets(bit of hubris on US side). That said their geography makes that into an very outsized impact on the world economy and political considerations.
2
SureSell67503 days ago
It’s amazing what progress can be made when Donald Trump isn’t poking his nose in
0
giboauja3 days ago
Millions of dead young men and women for Putins war. Practically kids. Lives cut short for the pointless ambitions of old men.
0
55Throwaway13 days ago
How much do you want to be trump takes credit for this lol
0
TheSearlichek3 days ago
-1
Good move. Obtain peace, wait for Russias economy to collapse whilst building up a drone army, then invade and take back what they stole.
-1
onehum4n3 days ago
-1
hard to believe... like actual piece? Germany able to reactivate Nord Steam?
77 Comments