And the world is disappointed that the US elected Trump twice and started a pointless war.
I guess nobody can be happy.
449
Hilarious_Disastrous2 days ago
+108
Not everything is about Trump. The pro-Beijing opposition party, which commands a slim majority with the backing of a coalition partner, is blocking the government's defense budget. This came after the opposition's chairwoman pays a personal visit to see China's Xi Jinping.
Well, you can read it as Trump's shitty leadership causes a collapse of confidence in US reliability as a an ally in Taiwan, if you want. But the four month long stalling of the defense budget appears highly unpopular domestically in Taiwan.
108
_Didds_2 days ago
+12
Sadly this message will get diluted over a really bad press title. US affairs aside it’s troublesome that the Pro-Beijing opposition can get this far without virtual no consequences.
The entire defense of Taiwan can pretty much be at stake here and China knows it well. I can see Beijing wanting to test the waters and see how much of a response it would get from taking one of the disputed coastal islands or setting up some sort of blockade when realistically there would be very few means to stop it.
It’s troublesome that Taiwan may need to impose more strict, almost dictatorial level, actions in order to make sure a minor opposition can’t put an entire country at risk of invasion. Really worrying when stuff like this happens, especially to a country that just deserves to be left alone and have piece in the region.
12
pepehandreee1 day ago
+10
If “minor opposition” u r referring to is KMT, it has more seat in RoC Parliament than the president’s DPP, lol, or do u think democracy only count when voters r pro DPP?
KMT has 1 more seat than DPP, none has majority in the parliament so the actual minor party plays a role. Tsai has attempted a recall campaign that ends in complete failure. So this is democracy functions as intended.
And the suggestion that they should go full dictatorship is hilarious. Might as well just “return to China” by that point.
10
SuccessfulPres1 day ago
+1
> US affairs aside it’s troublesome that the Pro-Beijing opposition can get this far
How is it troublesome? The KMT GOT THIS FAR BY BEING DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED.
1
Cabbage-braise18 hr ago
+1
Yeah Taiwan needs like..a special emergency period where the constitution is suspended totally and it is under the tutelage of a single party..maybe we will call it something as "people's tutelage". But we will only do it temporarily until we deem the people are ready for democracy. I wonder if anyone has done that in Taiwan before..
1
DDoubleDDog2 days ago
-50
If you think this war is senseless, then you don't care about the tens of thousands of victims of the Islamic Republic's acts of mass murder, torture, r***, child abuse, kidnapping, war crimes and terrorism. If you think this war is senseless, then you don't care about the millions of innocent Iranians who are forced to suffer under brutal tyranny. If you think this war is senseless, then you don't care about the women who are tortured, abused, arrested and raped for not covering their hair. If you think this war is senseless, then you don't care about all the young boys who are forced to become child soldiers or the young girls who are forced to marry old pedos. If you think this war is senseless, then you don't care about freedom or democracy. If you are actively trying to stop this war, then you are enabling more of the regime's atrocities and are essentially saying you approve of those atrocities.
-50
Shoend2 days ago
+12
One can both find the Iranian regime to be evil and the war to be senseless. If the goal was to take out the regime, this war is clearly not working.
12
gearstars2 days ago
+5
When did regime change become the stated goal of the war?
5
DDoubleDDog2 days ago
-11
When did you start ignoring the regime's atrocities? You think it's ok for the regime to continue these atrocities?
-11
gearstars2 days ago
+6
What does that have to do with my question? Is regime change the goal of the war or not?
6
DDoubleDDog2 days ago
-10
What does your question have to do with what I said?
-10
gearstars2 days ago
+3
Because you listed out the atrocities of the regime as a "justification" for supporting the war and implying that it wasn't "senseless" because it would end those atrocities. But regime change doesn't appear to be the goal of the war? That's what I originally asked you to clarify.
So if regime change isn't the end goal that is actively being pursued, what is the point of the war and what is the end goal?
3
DDoubleDDog2 days ago
Everything so far indicates regime change is the goal. The regime's navy and air force are destroyed. Their military industrial complex is destroyed. The IRGC and Basij have been crippled. Their economy is being destroyed by the blockade and sanctions. Everything the US and Israel have done during the war is designed to hasten the collapse of the regime and make it weak enough for the Iranian people to rebel successfully.
0
gearstars2 days ago
+3
Except that's not what's happening. Where are you getting your sources? Cause, like:
>Iran can withstand Trump’s blockade for months and retains 70% of its missiles, says US intelligence
https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/middle-east/iran-us-blockade-economy-cia-trump-b2972849.html
>The analysis on 15 April predicted that Iran is unlikely to be impacted by the blockade anytime in the near future due to “substantial volumes already on the water”, Kpler’s senior crude analyst Johannes Rauball told The Independent at the time.
>Tehran also retains 75 per cent of its prewar inventories of mobile launchers and around 70 per cent of its prewar stockpiles of missiles, a US official said. The intelligence runs contrary to president Trump’s statements about the country’s rapidly diminishing weapons cache.
It seems like if regime change is the goal they are going about it in the worst way. It's more like the US started it without foresight or clear mission goals and doesn't seem to know what to do now that the Iranian government didn't immediately capitulate.
Like, calling the war "senseless" isn't supporting the Iranian gov, or not supporting the end of their horribleness, it just means that the US made a huge blunder without a clear plan that is having global impacts.
3
Hilarious_Disastrous2 days ago
+3
Trump had said he wanted to "get" Iran's oil. Seeing as he did nothing to free Venezuela after Maduro's removal, an easy resource grab was the simplest and most likely explanation for Trump's attack on Iran.
Except it's not going the way he hoped.
3
DDoubleDDog1 day ago
+1
The notion that the US has no plan is ridiculous. I watched retired US General Jack Keane explain that while he was working at the Pentagon, him and the other generals made many plans to invade Iran and practiced them several times in war games. The Pentagon has many plans for invading Iran. They are well prepared to do this. The US is winning and the Islamic Republic will collapse soon. The regime has lost most of its income, most of its military and most of its allies. The vast majority of Iranians hate the regime and are just waiting for the signal to resume their revolution. Now that the people are armed and the regime has been crippled, the Iranian people have a good chance of toppling the regime.
1
cap10JTKirk2 days ago
+4
Yes, let's turn a blind eye to the genocide Israel is commiting as we speak as well, with in its borders and attacking it's neighbours. Something they would not carry out if America didn't allow.
This war is senseless and is creating generations of distrust a hate towards America and Israel and will only further radicalized more young minds. And to comment on the pedophilia when the president of the US is a child Rapist is just rich.
No party involved is innocent. But to think America is there because of the oppression of the Iranian people is ridiculously nieve.
4
just-comic2 days ago
+3
None of that is a concern for the chief in fool.
3
DDoubleDDog2 days ago
-1
I'm talking about OP, not Trump. OP is the one who doesn't care about those things.
-1
Skythewood2 days ago
+99
US disappointed by smaller arms sales number.
99
iwasuncoolonce2 days ago
+71
The United States is 30 billion behind in filling orders for Taiwan
71
fec22452 days ago
+41
Ironically you got it exactly backwards. Taiwan approved the budget for purchases from the US as the US has a growing backlog and they worried if they didn't move on that they'd be further down the list. The largest party in Taiwan (and the US) wanted Taiwan to invest more in indigenous production.
41
Skythewood2 days ago
-24
Oh, I guess the article needs to change its title then.
"US relieved by Taiwan's smaller defense budget"
-24
fec22452 days ago
+17
No, the US wanted Taiwan to invest in domestic production.
17
Skythewood2 days ago
-20
Let's try changing it again.
"US limits arms sales to Taiwan to spur Taiwan domestic weapon production. Taiwan scramble to set up fighter planes and defense missile factories."
-20
fec22452 days ago
+17
That wouldn't be accurate either. Maybe you should read a few more articles on the situation before trying to write headlines.
17
Hilarious_Disastrous2 days ago
+2
No, the legislature funded the US arms sales that Washington has already approved, and the opposition promised to pass the remainder after the Americans did their leters of offering and acceptance.
Washington and the government in Taipei are both displeased that the legislature voted against domestic drones, counter-drone sytstems and shell production.
2
rbobby2 days ago
+14
Buy more of our weapons our we're gonna start a few more wars.
edit: that comment was banned by the AI auto-moderation stuff. Reversed on appeal... but what a pain.
14
Settra_Rulez2 days ago
-1
Not what it’s about.
-1
shaka893P2 days ago
+18
Isn't the US late on the last arms delivery to them?
18
magneticanisotropy2 days ago
+11
This is about Taiwan cutting domestic production funding afaik
11
GravitasFailures2 days ago
+8
Taiwan (or more accurately their elite, particularly the business elite) has effectively resigned itself to re-integration with China, the goal is now to negotiate terms that allow them to keep their money and freedom, potentially offshore.
It’s a shame, but the belief among them is “China is too valuable for business”, so they’re completely willing to sell out their country in exchange for money.
Honestly seems stupid and short-sighted to me, where the hell are you going to spend the money if the CCP has tentacles everywhere?
8
VegetableWishbone2 days ago
+15
China is the largest luxury goods market in the world and you are asking where they are going to spend their money? You can buy anything money can buy in China nowadays.
15
Fresh_Boysenberry5762 days ago
+24
There are plenty of rich people in China who enjoy spending their money on anything from luxury goods, foreign cars, nice homes, etc. What do you think would change in that regard for Taiwanese?
24
GravitasFailures2 days ago
+11
Those “rich people” can and are taken by the CCP if they do anything mildly offensive, unless they’re able to escape.
There’s a name for truly rich Chinese people, it’s “Singaporean”.
11
I_wanna_trade2 days ago
+24
I bet you there are a lot of people who would happily accept what is basically infinite money if all they had to do was not talk shit about the CCP. It sucks from a freedom pov, but these people are not really worried about this.
This is the case not just in China FWIW
24
GravitasFailures2 days ago
-11
Oh, I agree, I just think the Taiwanese are especially short-sighted, given they just saw Hong Kong’s fate.
-11
Fresh_Boysenberry5762 days ago
+10
That's a different argument. The argument was that rich Taiwanese people shouldn't want unification with China because they wouldn't be to spend their money, which doesn't make sense.
There are other reasons why unification with China is bad for them but lack of spending options doesn't strike me as a good argument.
Also Singapore isn't exactly a haven of freedom either. They also punish citizens for what we would consider mild infractions in the west.
10
Eclipsed8302 days ago
+16
>Taiwan (or more accurately their elite, particularly the business elite) has effectively resigned itself to re-integration with China, the goal is now to negotiate terms that allow them to keep their money and freedom, potentially offshore.
This is so far from the reality.
TSMC barely has a footprint in China, and [Robert Tsao (UMC billionaire) is literally funding a private army to defend Taiwan against China](https://focustaiwan.tw/politics/202209010014). Otherwise most of the elites are from the financial industry and make most of their money here.
16
GravitasFailures2 days ago
-4
That’s what I thought, but Foxconn and other investor classes are pushing the other way, they fear being cut off from Chinese markets (lol, what Chinese markets) if they hold out.
I think they’re insane, but you can’t argue insane people don’t exist.
-4
Eclipsed8302 days ago
+1
Foxconn has been divesting from China for about a decade now... China was once responsible for 80% of their total manufacturing, and now it is down to less than half. The numbers continue to drop has new Foxconn projects in Vietnam, India, and Mexico come online.
1
DDoubleDDog2 days ago
+2
No, Taiwan is not going to reintegrate into China.
2
TheLeapIsALie2 days ago
-4
Trump doesn’t help the situation. Taiwan has remained independent because the threat of unified western sanctions and cutting off of gas is one of the few things China feared.
But with western alliances frayed and the US notably embarrassed by Iran, Taiwan doesn’t feel it has a safety net.
-4
GravitasFailures2 days ago
-6
I agree.
Ukraine helped Taiwan, it scared China into understanding how hard an invasion actually was.
Trump basically pushed it back the other way, now we “look like morons so maybe it’s China’s time after all”.
-6
tradetofi2 days ago
+7
\>>Ukraine helped Taiwan, it scared China into understanding how hard an invasion actually was.
I do not think so. China always knows how difficult it is . Otherwize it would have had a move a while ago.
7
GravitasFailures2 days ago
-4
No, they didn’t know, Xi doesn’t understand anything military, he wanted to start in 2022 after HK was stabilized.
The PLAN said they needed 5 years (they needed 15 minimum, probably more now), which is why he purged them recently when they told him they weren’t ready.
Putin figured he could take out Ukraine quickly, show how weak the west was after Afghanistan, and then Xi could take Taiwan, paralyzing the west with fear.
That didn’t quite work out.
-4
tradetofi2 days ago
+8
Bro talked as as if he was listening under Xi's bed. Stop pulling things out of your ass!
8
GravitasFailures2 days ago
-1
No, these are actual IR positions, this is why people were really nervous in 2022, especially around the Olympics.
Also why Ukraine was so terrifying, the fear was a success would lead to Taiwan’s blockade, which could lead to more problems, especially after Afghanistan.
Thankfully, Ukraine stood, while Russia Russia’d, but it was close nonetheless.
-1
Tesl2 days ago
+4
Out of genuine curiosity, where do you get your information from?
4
GravitasFailures2 days ago
+1
I was on a bunch of IR forums and followed a bunch of think tanks and professors back then, I quit caring after that, but it was like this really sensitive moment and everyone was really worried about where China was going to go after Covid, especially after HK fell.
Fortunately Russia Russia’d, as is tradition.
1
ppitm1 day ago
+1
So a bunch of IR dorks thought that the results of Russia's war had some bearing on China's decision to launch a completely different war? Classic, haha
1
GravitasFailures1 day ago
If Kyiv had fallen, tell me China would not start a blockade of Taiwan, to make it a 2 front confrontation against the west.
The domestic pressure on Xi would have been insurmountable, and I say this as someone who spent more time there than I would like (and spent time in Taiwan too, gorgeous land).
Lot of Listnook keyboard warriors talk about stuff they cannot begin to understand.
0
ppitm1 day ago
+1
> If Kyiv had fallen, tell me China would not start a blockade of Taiwan, to make it a 2 front confrontation against the west.
If Kyiv had fallen, then the war would have been over, instead of dragging on for more than four years. The West was ready to write the Zelensky government off entirely, with U.S. and European leaders privately telling the Ukrainians that they would be gone in two weeks.
So the resulting confrontation would have been less acute than it actually is now. And it is in fact Russia's failure that created more fertile ground for kinetic action against Taiwan, by prolonging economic pain in Europe and demanding U.S. resources.
But China did not opt to do anything, understanding that they were not in fact ready for such a dangerous gamble.
1
fartyunicorns2 days ago
This is a valid concern. Ukraine spent 2014-2022 heavily investing in and restructuring their military because they knew the threat Russia was. That sense of urgency is not there in Taiwan as much. Just because trump is bad doesn't make that any less true
0
SuccessfulPres1 day ago
+1
Taiwan has spent the last 50 years arming itself. It will be fine.
Taiwan increased its defense spending by $25 billion, so headline is misleading.
1
SailYourFace2 days ago
+1
Oh. I read the actual article and an ‘anonymous IS official’ is disappointing that Taiwan increased its defense spending by $25 billion but that is only 2/3 of what the US thinks it should be increased by…
1
whereisyourwaifunow1 day ago
+1
The article has few details about the actual situation. The Democratic Progressive Party (DPP), the largest new party that arose after the Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) ended 40 years of dictatorship and martial law in Taiwan, currently has the executive branch. The KMT was the remnant of the Republic of China government that lost their civil war against the CCP, and retreated to Taiwan. They have a small majority in the legislative branch. The defense budget has been delayed and reduced by the KMT.
From my layman's understanding, there are multiple possible reasons for the delay. Officially, it's because the KMT claims the DPP budget does not spend responsibly or has enough accountability, or needs more guarantees from the US arms deliveries (multiple recent deliveries have been very late). Other reasons could be political, if the KMT wants to blame the DPP in the next election cycle for not preparing adequate defenses against China. Or because many of their leadership is pro-unification and want closer relations with the CCP. The KMT chairwoman met with Xi last month. She has said things like "I am Chinese," "Taiwan is part of China."
1
S1gorJabjong2 days ago
-12
Having a larger budget doesn't automatically mean having a capable military. The US proved that with Iran. So, do kindly eat your own words and f*** off please.
-12
tradetofi2 days ago
+8
The US is a very capable military.
8
fec22452 days ago
+16
The problem in Iran isn't limitations of the US military, its the lack of strategy.
16
CMDR_Kassandra2 days ago
-9
Some would consider a lack of strategy to be a limitation.
-9
fec22452 days ago
+14
The overarching strategy (or lack their of) comes from our civilian leadership. There's no amount of defense spending that can prevent the president from doing something dumb.
14
Gustomucho2 days ago
-2
This.
Clearly having a bajillion in military capacity is not everything when you piss off all your allies.
-2
LordSigdis2 days ago
-1
War is not just about military. It's about strategy. Trump has no strategy, even though the US Military is the best in the world, while Iran is greatly defended naturally and physically and has prepared for this for many decades.
An idiot wielding a bazooka will only blow himself up and his opponent shall win even if he only holds a toothpick.
Edit: down voters, please name what you think is a superior military to the American one, and provide some reasonable backing up to that claim.
-1
tradetofi2 days ago
-10
\>> Trump has no strategy
Listnook Generals told you?
-10
LordSigdis2 days ago
+4
Only generals left since trump fired all the real ones
4
50bmg2 days ago
+1
The US can't refill its own inventories, let alone arm Taiwan anymore. Taiwan can't outspend China no matter what they do, they can only hope to make the cost of invasion too high to try. It's possible that Taiwan has already achieved that, which leaves hybrid/grey zone type conflict (cyber warfare, espionage, propaganda, blockades, reef/island construction, extreme economic and geopolitical pressure) as the most likely option for China. And if that's the conclusion - then it makes sense to invest slightly less in overt arms production and more in hardening against the other avenues.
1
mammalmaker2 days ago
+2
What a surprise. Meeting with Xi and they start the anti-Taiwan campaign.
2
g0ggy2 days ago
-8
Not surprising after everyone has seen how well US weaponry works against Iran. Taiwan will end up conquered very quickly if all they have are over priced rockets against endless swarms of drones.
-8
sumregulaguy2 days ago
+7
If Russian invasion of Ukraine and operation Blind Fury showed anything it's that it's not at all easy for a country with a much bigger military conquer another with a much smaller one.
7
Bluedroid2 days ago
+5
Not sure how you came up to that conclusion. The US's aim wasn't to conquer iran, if they actually wanted to take over they would have knocked out every oil producing asset, every powerplant, water decal plant and grinded a country to a complete halt early on.
If Russia had the same technological advantage over Ukraine they'd have won a long time ago.
5
This_Robot2 days ago
+5
This is a laughably bad take. You're saying US armament isn't helping Ukraine? You're saying that the Stingers weren't a boon to the Mujahedeen? You're saying that everyone's stupid for eyeing up American military equipment that have been proven in battle?
US weaponry works well alright. Many evidence of it. All of it simply depends on the user and their strategy with it.
5
g0ggy2 days ago
-3
You're saying a lot of things I didn't say and bringing up the mujahideen in a conflict over 40 years later is crazy. That's almost as relevant as the grandpa in the White House.
-3
This_Robot2 days ago
-1
So what were you trying to say? From what I can tell, you're trying to say American weaponry is no better than overpriced toys. Which it isn't.
Also, really? Of all the things to say that's irrelevant you choose the president of the United States?
-1
g0ggy2 days ago
> So what were you trying to say?
That US arms aren't good enough to solve modern conflicts.
> Of all the things to say that's irrelevant you choose the president of the United States?
Oh, he's relevant. At starting wars and keeping them going. Not so much at solving and preventing them.
0
Wayofchinchilla2 days ago
Who writes these headlines the US? No Trump is disappointed. The man whose brain functions about as well as a rotten tangerine doesn't understand why other countries don't spend almost their entire GDP on their military.
0
Fearless_Ad_54702 days ago
-1
Yeee, just like the military-industrial complex always complains that they haven't squeezed American taxpayers' wallets dry.
78 Comments