ListNook

No_Idea_Guy 6 days ago +3554

They can't hold out forever, but they only need to outlast Americans' tolerance for $5 gas.

3554

92_Charlie 5 days ago +221

"So I don't think I need to wait out Dunder Mifflin. I think I just have to wait out you." - Michael Scott

221

Xfuck1tX 4 days ago +4

**"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.”** **-Wayne Gretzky** **-Michael Scott**

4

firefighter26s 6 days ago +1454

Then $6 gas... followed by $7 gas... then immediately after that, $8 gas; you guessed it, $9 gas. Hope we all like $10 gas! *None* of the other lines in the sand that people have said would be the tipping point have had any real affect on the administration. Honestly, I started listing everything that I would have thought would have been a hard line in the sand and the list was paragraphs long. I don't think $5 gas is going to topple this house of cards.

1454

Mushoz 5 days ago +564

Gas prices here in The Netherlands are 2.62€ per litre or 3.08$ per litre. 3.79 litres makes a single gallon, so our gas price is effectively 3.79 * 3.08 = 11.67$ per gallon.

564

akie 5 days ago +632

Europe has been living with $10 gas for AAAAGES. I (a European) don’t see the problem honestly, then again - we have realistic alternative transport options.

632

Youre-doin-great 5 days ago +389

The second part. You have reliable transportation options. It would take 2-3 hours to get to my girl friend’s house with our public transportation and she only lives like 15 miles from me. Thats a 20-30 min drive with reasonable traffic

389

Wurstpaket 5 days ago +176

I would ride that by bike (Europe) but I also know that I can take back roads with little traffic. I understand why you would rely on a car as a safe means of transportation

176

nekromantique 5 days ago +192

A lot of US areas are not particularly bike (or even walking) friendly. Lack of bike lanes, and often even Lack of sidewalks...or the sidewalks are in shit shape...like the ones around me.

192

ThellraAK 5 days ago +45

I know there are pockets of tolerance, but aren't bikes nearly universally hated on the road? Like I know here in Alaska they are allowed on the road, and are able to use the full lane, but it seems like a lot of people go out of their way to see how closely they can pass the bike without actually hitting them with their side view mirrors.

45

InformationHorder 5 days ago +68

Not necessarily hated, but I've lived in both Europe and the US and I would not ride my bike on any US roads for fear of a driver taking me out. People just don't have enough experience and perspective driving around a biker, and many don't have any patience or understanding either because they've never ridden a bike on a shared roadway.

68

suttlare 5 days ago +17

In Australia I feel like they sometimes even try to hit you. I even had an Uber driver complain that bikes shouldn't be on the road as they don't pay road tax :D think it mostly boils down to no history of biking so people don't understand how vulnerable you really are plus they don't have kids or partners riding daily and can relate that the person on the bike is someone's loved one.

17

LevoiHook 5 days ago +13

I always felt that people on a bike are seen as second rate citizens. Like Blacks, or natives, but a bit worse. Basically the Hegseth mindset. If you are biking, you are too poor to afford a car, therefore you are a worthless piece of shit that i, a car driver, should run off the road to get rid of people like you.

13

Aerostudents 5 days ago +7

I think it is not only experience and perspective, although I would say it is a very large part of it. It is also that the infrastructure just isn't there or even if it is there it is horribly designed, I can only assume by people who have never riden a bike. This makes biking not safe. A good example of this that I personally saw, although it is not in the US or Europe, is in Christchurch in New Zealand. They added a lot of bikelanes to the city there. The problem is that a lot (but not all) of these bike lanes are horribly designed. There is one stretch where there is a bike lane in the middle of a busy 3 lane road. It doesn't matter that there is a strip of green with a bike symbol painted on the road, that is still a death trap. Bike lanes should be seperated completely from busy roads. Bikes can only share the road if the roads are not busy or very low speed limit, otherwise there are bound to be accidents.

7

nekromantique 5 days ago +24

I mean...thats kind of my point? If there aren't bike lanes or wide and maintained sidewalks...then its not bike friendly. And yes, riding your bike on a normal road where the speed limit is like 45 and youre going like 10-15 would probably be a nuisance to almost everyone. Bike lanes separate a small section of the road off though, so you dont interfere with normal traffic.

24

ApolloAtlas 5 days ago +10

You are correct. Its being pedantic to say bicycles are NOT universally hated on roads in the USA. Of course there are pockets of good places to cycle and not everyone on the road is an a******, but when it is a high enough percentage that would bump you with their car, or yell, or throw things at you that your commute would be dangerous, it is 'effectively' universally understood it just isnt safe to ride a bicycle in the USA.

10

LevoiHook 5 days ago +3

True, but that is a choice, not some law of nature.

3

euser_name 5 days ago +3

Wait till no one can afford gas... the roads will be so clear that biking and walking might actually feel like safe option!

3

Youre-doin-great 5 days ago +4

I actually like cycling so I get where youre coming from. You would have to bike a few miles up and down a mountain in this example and there is no bike lanes majority of your trip. You would also be battling some of the worse traffic in the world while biking on the road. Really just not worth it.

4

Cartz1337 5 days ago +3

Yea if you try to ride that in America you’re likely to get run over by Billy Bob in his lifted diesel F350 because he’s too distracted telling his girlfriend that $5/gal is all her fault because she voted for Biden in 2020.

3

FastRedPonyCar 5 days ago +2

Bikes are basically a death wish in my city. There are basically no bike lanes and drivers simply don’t know how to behave when they’re on the road. I’ve seen impatient motorists damn near run them off the road because they don’t want to sit behind them on 2 lane roads where there’s too much oncoming traffic and they can’t pass the cyclist.

2

PacmanZ3ro 5 days ago +13

It doesn’t even matter about public transit. Their whole society is structured around minimal car use whereas the US (with a few exceptions) is set up around heavy car use. Even if there was public will for it (and there isn’t), it would take years (possibly 10+) to build out enough infrastructure, and I’m not entirely convinced there would ever be enough to get you places in a reasonable window of time.

13

dancingmadkoschei 5 days ago +13

This is partly because Europe is *old.* Way older than Americans think. Also small by comparison. But the cities were built in an era when walking was the default and just haven't been changed all that much. Meanwhile, America outside the original 13: "f*** it, we horse."

13

TomUpNort 5 days ago +14

The disgraceful part is, US cities used to be more like that, too. We literally ripped apart the core of our central cities- walkable neighborhoods and urban cores- to build massive highways and parking lots. We didn’t just build cities for the car. We destroyed them for the car.

14

PacmanZ3ro 5 days ago +6

I mean sort of. Most of it is just cities designed for primarily pedestrians, but another part of the issue is the size of the cities and the surrounding areas. I don't think many people in EU and other countries actually appreciate just how spread out everything in America is. Like, I'm in "the metro area" in the twin cities, but if I want to get into the downtown area, it's a 40 min drive with no traffic, 35 if I speed. The next closest major city is over 4 hours away. It's just an entirely different setup and infrastructure

6

Intru 5 days ago +9

Yes but that farely new typology tho in the last 100 yrs or so. My father still remembers when most of the suburbs around the city I grew up didn't exist. Most Americans cities really blew up in sprawl during the mid 1900s before that they where not much different then you standard European industrial city. All to say typologies can change pretty quickly if the conditions present themselves. Is gas and car ownership keep trending they way the where even before operation epic furry there just no ways the current system can keep working as is.

9

PacmanZ3ro 5 days ago +3

> All to say typologies can change pretty quickly again, sort of. They CAN, however, it is much easier to do it back then when they were actually expanding the cities/suburbs as opposed to now where they would need to actually tear down existing stuff first and then build new infrastructure. To say nothing of needing to kick people out of their homes and neighborhoods to recover the land and re-design the areas to be higher density and with public transit and walkable layouts to go with it. Just to be clear, adding better/additional public transit will definitely happen. Re-designing/rebuilding cities will probably happen eventually because the current way stuff has been built isn't sustainable over the next 50-100 years. That might just come in the form of building new cities though. In the more near term we can definitely bolster the public transit infrastructure and options, but again, the only way these systems will see any level of use is if they are robust, quick, and not a massive pain in the ass to use. I used to take the bus to college instead of paying for parking. I did that for 1 year and then just paid for parking. The bus was a massive pain in the ass. The route it took from the satellite lot to the school was ~35 minutes minimum, frequently would be 50+ due to running late, passengers loading/unloading slow, etc. Keep in mind that the lot was literally 3 miles from the school. It wasn't even an especially winding route either. It just had to make ~5 stops, and each one was often a few minutes. Shit like that is exactly why people don't use it currently and there would need to be a lot more buses/trains/etc running with more dedicated routes. The biggest risk is that if you don't get public buy-in in the first couple years you're running the systems because some of it sucks or is a pain, then people won't use it and you'll be just burning money until a future admin guts the program.

3

Parcours97 5 days ago +3

Not everywhere. I can drive to work in about 20min while public transport takes over 1,5h.

3

Practical-Ball1437 5 days ago +5

But doesn't having reliable transport alternatives mean you hate freedom?

5

Mortentia 5 days ago +3

Goddamn that’s actually pretty far. 15 miles is the distance from my house to the downtown of not the next, or subsequent, but the third city from the one I live in. That drive would take me 1h+ in good traffic conditions (Vancouver, Canada is hell for driving anywhere in any reasonable amount of time).

3

ForwardHuckleberry26 5 days ago +2

Guess it's time to move in together

2

SquashDue502 5 days ago +2

I live 12 minutes by car from work and it would take an hour to get there by bus 😂💀

2

llDurbinll 5 days ago +2

I've been trying to get my friend to come work where I do because it pays better and has better benefits than his job and it would help him finally be able to afford a car of his own but even though my job is 20-25 min from his house by car it would take 13~ hrs by bus. Yes, 13+ hrs. Because there is no direct bus route to where the job is he'd have to walk several miles to the nearest bus stop and take a bus downtown (which would take over an hour) and then he'd have to spend the night at a hotel and take a bus to another area in the morning and transfer to another bus that runs out to where my job is. Since the bus doesn't run overnight it's not like could get up early and take a bus downtown and transfer to the bus that goes to the job because the bus wouldn't get him down to where he needs to be to catch the bus that runs out to my job on time and the bus that runs out to my job only runs once in the morning and once in the evening. If he Uber'd it's be $40-50 before tip each way.

2

fen90der 5 days ago +12

We don't drive V8 pickup trucks either we drive sensible cars

12

time_drifter 5 days ago +14

Geography also plays a part here. Even if public transportation was good, the United States is objectively huge compared to many countries. That’s why it used to be funny to see overseas tourists say they are going to do New York, Yellowstone, Yosemite and the Grand Canyon in a week…when we had tourism.

14

InformationHorder 5 days ago +17

Regional rail would be phenomenal. Boston to DC, and the entire coast of California from SF to LA are ideal candidates.

17

SkiingAway 5 days ago +8

I mean, the Boston-DC corridor and the many lines that are offshoots of that are the best developed rail systems in the US by far. That said you still often have a "last mile" problem in a lot of areas that limits the practical utility to mostly "drive your car to the local station in the suburbs to then ride to the big urban center" rather than people using it for many other sorts of trips. You don't see a lot of riding the train between towns.

8

LivingLegend69 5 days ago +22

And yet China is even larger and has build up the world largest high speed rail network in under 20 years!

22

rabidstoat 5 days ago +21

China's planning horizon is much longer than the US planning horizon. In the US, corporations and government seem worried about this year, maybe one year out, but they have to keep maximizing profits now and not in the future so they can't afford to invest for the future.

21

Paah 5 days ago +21

> In the US, corporations and government seem worried about this year This year? More like this quarter.

21

dfighter3 5 days ago +4

not even a year. at this point we're lucky if the care about the quarter out

4

TheDotCommunist 5 days ago +10

Roughly the same size but China has 4x the population... oh and 1 party deciding how the money gets spent. Very different scenarios.

10

01100011011010010111 5 days ago +6

And no pesky regulations or party divides to deal with, land ownership problems, etc, etc.

6

DKDamian 5 days ago +17

Australia is just as big and we have good public transport in our cities. I can take a train, bus or ferry anywhere across my city (population close to 3m) for $0.50. Busses leave from around the corner to the city centre every 10 minutes Your excuse is worthless.

17

Ferrar1i 5 days ago +9

Yeah but how much of Australia is the Outback and more or less deserted? Something like 90% of all Australians live 50 miles to the coast. Australia’s pretty similar in size to the US but only has 27 million people, compared to americas 350 million plus People who haven’t been here really don’t understand the scope of just how big and populated America is

9

adulting_dude 5 days ago +14

Over 80% of my state's population lives in 3 mountain valleys along a single mountain range People love to talk about how sparsely populated America is, but it's really how we've designed suburbs and aggressively lobbied against transit and bike infrastructure that's the problem Also, something like 40% of Americans live within 50 miles of the coast, which is about 130 million people. That makes America's coasts significantly more dense than Australia's... But I digress

14

Intru 5 days ago +2

Most Americans don't actually travel across their own state that often let alone multiple. Regional transit is what needs to be prioritize. Like I don't give a shit about a train from NH to Tennessee probably die without ever visiting TN but I would love a train from Manchester NH to Boston MA I would use that in a heart beat.

2

Viva_La_Revolucion- 5 days ago +2

You have realistic everything

2

X-e-o 5 days ago +2

Your average car is way less of a gas guzzler as well. Even base model economy cars in North America are in the 150hp range and have been for the past decade or two.

2

trash-_-boat 5 days ago +2

> I (a European) don’t see the problem honestly, then again - we have realistic alternative transport options. In the less well-off EU countries, city buses are still, at best, hybrids, so even public transport depends on gas. Intercity buses aren't even that.

2

IndependentSoul 5 days ago +20

Gas is a sensitive topic in the USA. Republicans willfully ignored all the bad things even the nasty details in the Epstein files but gas is where they draw the line.

20

Phugasity 5 days ago +13

I mean, what's more American than entitlement? Our food and gas is c**** and yet it's the deal breaker. Remember when we wouldn't mask up during COVID to protect our neighbors? We've got a rot problem.

13

SomeBaldDude2013 5 days ago +8

True, but would you have to walk for two hours to get to the nearest grocery store? Cries in Texan.

8

nakedonmygoat 5 days ago +5

You left out the part about then having to walk back two hours, hoping you and the groceries don't melt along the way.

5

Good_Restaurant15 5 days ago +23

Great, now consider that you all have great infrastructure for alternative transportation, and a vehicle really IS a luxury item. Meanwhile, we (In America) can't make a living without a vehicle, in 95% of the US. Sure, we have luxury vehicles, but most of us drive vehicles because if we tried living without them we would spend the majority of our lives commuting. Personally, my commute to work (one way), since I was 16-17 years old, has Always been over 40 minutes, assuming there aren't any collisions anywhere, if there are, my 25mile trip goes from 40 minutes to 1:30+. These days I WFH and I would absolutely murder anyone who told me I had to go back to the office. I'd rather be in jail. By my math, I get a minimum of 30-40 hours of my time back, per month, assuming that there is no traffic for the entire month (40 minutes each way every time). Cheers

23

Bellegante 5 days ago +12

Yeah, but it's different in the U.S. Drivers may commute 30 miles one way daily, every day, just to get to an office job. Two hour commutes aren't that uncommon. In the Netherlands, you have public transit.

12

LevoiHook 5 days ago +5

Commuting 30 miles is absolutely not uncommon in the Netherlands. Source, i live here.

5

motoo344 5 days ago +3

I would imagine in Europe you guys are also open to smaller and more fuel efficient cars. We like giant SUVs and trucks with just one person riding in them.

3

Such_Veterinarian682 5 days ago +3

Having visited your fine nation from my native Texas, I might mention your excellent and inexpensive mass transit. If you work in Texas, you have to have a car.

3

Broccobillo 5 days ago +2

I was thinking 2.62€ a litre was steep. 95 in NZ is $3.50NZD atm. Or 1.77€ per litre. Still quite expensive if calculated by the gallon. 6.70€ per gallon

2

whykickamoocow9 5 days ago +53

Old Spice guy: I’m on a horse.

53

LawLayLewLayLow 5 days ago +41

Fun fact: since 1989, Democratic presidents oversaw about 50.3 million net new U.S. jobs while Republican presidents oversaw only about 0.9 million, even as the national debt exploded from about $2.8 trillion to over $34 trillion during that same era despite Republicans branding themselves as the fiscally responsible party.

41

BassLB 5 days ago +25

But the Dow is over 50k!

25

Otherwise-Future7143 5 days ago +14

Not anymore. It’s back under today.

14

SomeRandomGuydotdot 5 days ago +20

Didn't you listen? The dow is over 50k! God, its like libs cannot even hear me when I scream.

20

Good_Restaurant15 5 days ago +3

Don't threaten me with a good time! (I think)

3

time_drifter 5 days ago +10

Does it stop at $10 because MAGA runs out of fingers to count on?

10

CommanderArcher 5 days ago +9

I'm not sure there's anything the US could do that could get the people to care enough to put a stop to this admin. The apathy is just that strong

9

Gandalf_the_Rizzard 5 days ago +3

I’m already pissed I’m paying almost 30% more. I was pissed before but now more mad.

3

Jiminy_Tuckerson 5 days ago +2

I keep seeing this and gas prices have definitely gone up, but the futures price of Brent crude is still hovering around $100 and gas prices have kind of steadied in the last couple weeks where I am (west coast USA). Will there be a tipping point time where some sort of reserves dry up and the cost will actually skyrocket? Or is this a case of gas companies just slowly increasing the price to capitalize on the current events

2

zanzara1968 5 days ago +36

How long are North Korea and Cuba holding out?

36

the_fabled_bard 5 days ago +17

Cuba not so much.... seems like a very bad time to be living in Cuba.

17

dragonmp93 5 days ago +18

To be fair, Cuba has hold for so long that the Castro that is still alive is like 95.

18

AK_Panda 5 days ago +15

Was never a good time to live in NK. But NK still exists.

15

zoobrix 6 days ago +75

Since the Iranian government doesn't need to worry about being voted out and couldn't care less about it's people suffering they will blockade the strait as long as they want. The regime is used to being under heavy sanctions and inconsistent oil income for decades now, dealing with these kinds of shocks is nothing new. The elites will never go without what they want and as long as they can keep the military and internal security services happy they can continue to crack down on any public dissent like they always do. Maybe they can't do that forever but I would bet they can do it for a long, long time if they feel they need to.

75

Relative_Cricket8532 5 days ago +49

Iran can get as much food and supplies as they want from Russia through the Caspian, and Russia has an incentive to keep them afloat too. Blockades don't work if your enemy has ground routes on 3 borders with Turkey, Iraq (which is partly friendly), Pakistan and a sea border with Russia

49

1maco 5 days ago +27

The point isn’t to starve them to death. It’s about isolating their oil export infrastructure and cripple them financially

27

AK_Panda 5 days ago +21

True, though I do wonder where those commenters are that were absolutely certain that Iran would collapse within a week or two of blockade. A blockade would take months, at a minimum to break a nations resolve. When dealing with a nation lead by religious extremists? All bets are off lol.

21

Blackstone01 5 days ago +14

A religious extremist that had been preparing for this for decades. That also has two nations (Russia and China) heavily incentivized to keep them going and the supply routes to help do so. That knows full well their win condition is for Americans to get furious with their government. That, if push came to shove, could ensure that the entire region will be devastated for decades (much of the US aligned Gulf States would see an enormous chunk of their population die of dehydration if Iran were pushed far enough). There's a good reason no previous president had been so monumentally stupid as to start a war with Iran. The only way to win is to either not play or make Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq combined look like minor kerfuffles.

14

muttmunchies 5 days ago +15

Agree. However, a brutal dictatorship willing to slaughter 30,000+ protestors is likely to outlast the domestic discontent inside Iran. The regime will suppress it at all costs. Although trump would be likely willing to do the same to americans, he likely cant and thus america’s intolerance for financial pain will politically hit much sooner than Iran. Trump at best will have to spin a much worse deal than what a pre-war scenario had. Worst president ever.

15

Blackstone01 5 days ago +7

> Agree. However, a brutal dictatorship willing to slaughter 30,000+ protestors is likely to outlast the domestic discontent inside Iran. The regime will suppress it at all costs. Plus their efforts would be buoyed by fact that they can pretty easily sell this as a religious war against their greatest enemy.

7

donkeyrocket 5 days ago +4

Right but blockading the oil exports is doing more harm to the aggressor in this situation than Iran. It's also having a massive effect on the US economy that currently is propped up by lots of hopes and dreams. Iran is also a brutal dictatorship so that's an added factor in outlasting the US. Although I guess one could argue the US is treading towards a similar path where the citizenry is expendable.

4

PiccoloAwkward465 5 days ago +3

Well it's worked every other time we've tried it, right??

3

TheOtherPete 5 days ago +11

>Without using Kharg Island, which handles roughly 90% of its crude exports, Iran’s export capacity is severely limited, likely dropping to only 250,000–300,000 barrels per day (bpd) through alternative overland routes to neighboring countries. They may be able to trade with neighboring countries but they aren't exporting significant amounts of oil

11

HyperAstartes 5 days ago +8

Turkey is also known to play both sides, they had a Cash For Gold Scheme going on with Iran which caused Turkey's govt to have a fallout with the Obama Administration. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reza\_Zarrab](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reza_Zarrab)

8

stewmander 5 days ago +37

They just need to make it till November. Seems quite doable.

37

Mushoz 5 days ago +37

Gas prices here in The Netherlands are 2.62€ per litre or 3.08$ per litre. 3.79 litres makes a single gallon, so our gas price is effectively 3.79 * 3.08 = 11.67$ per gallon.

37

russellvt 5 days ago +7

> Americans' tolerance for $5 gas. Still cheaper than most the rest of the world, strangely enough.

7

Jebediah_Johnson 5 days ago +26

The American colonists didn't have to defeat the military might of the British Empire, they just had to make the war expensive enough for the British people to no longer be okay with it.

26

buldozr 4 days ago +3

Britain was also nearly broke due to previous wars to begin with, which precipitated the extra taxes on the colonies. How history rhymes.

3

TheBlackRider2828 5 days ago +6

The Iranians have a higher pain tolerance for sure

6

delfino_plaza1 5 days ago +3

Yeah because the theocratic dictatorship hangs them in the streets off cranes, that shit will make anyone more tolerant to hardship.

3

RaceDBannon 5 days ago +8

The Venn diagram of people who drive huge trucks, speed uneconomically, and complain about the price of gas is a circle.

8

PeopleareWatchingMe 5 days ago +4

They are moving oil by train. They don't need the straight as much as we do.

4

IlikeJG 5 days ago +5

I got bad news, gas prices are never going to go down again. They never do. They might lower a little bit after things settle, but never back to where they were before.

5

r2k-in-the-vortex 5 days ago +4

I wouldnt be so sure about not holding out forever. There will be consequences of course, but if the regime doesnt fall, they can simply swallow the costs and thats it. What does the mulla care if some starve to death? Look at Venezuela, they got fucked in 2014. But the regime stayed put. And I certainly dont think Iran is shakier regime than stinking Maduro.

4

HoneyBadger552 5 days ago +5

US could have limited the fall out decades ago. reduce oil, create mass transit, mandate electric cars, update the electric grid. we did none of those

5

DarXIV 5 days ago +2

If they hold out until November then Trump and republicans are done.

2

steve_ample 6 days ago +416

Can it stretch out to the Tuesday next after the first Monday in November as per Title 2, United States Code, Section 1?

416

OG_Williker 5 days ago +242

It’s cute you think this administration cares about the laws.

242

rithrawr 5 days ago +28

Pete wife beater said it's a new war cause of blockade, so new 60 days time window without need of congress approval.

28

Photmagex 5 days ago +5

Totes adorbs.

5

Negative-Start9414 5 days ago +31

A Listnookor said Iran won this war last month and were screamed at by Americans. Guess the truth hurts.

31

snoopingforpooping 6 days ago +513

U.S. lost its collective mind when it asked its citizens to wear a mask (a minor inconvenience). I highly doubt they can outlast Iran when gas prices go above $7.00.

513

RaverSMS 5 days ago +335

Its funny that trump is destroying so many things, like education, soft power, ties to allies, accountability for politicians, healthcare and so on, but the american people will draw the line at 7.00$ gas and start rioting

335

DawnSennin 5 days ago +119

That’s because many Americans don’t pay attention to the politics and the effects their representatives are having on their daily lives that do not cost them money. Also, healthcare and education are out of reach for millions. As a result, they don’t care about those things. The high gas prices are going to see the GOP getting blown away coast to coast. Unfortunately, the Democrats are known for grasping defeat from the tightly clenched jaws of victory.

119

kktheoch 5 days ago +71

None of those (except healthcare which admittedly was always shit compared to EU standards) affect you personally directly. For those to affect you you'd have to think far further than tomorrow which admittedly most people can't do.

71

ABetterKamahl1234 5 days ago +24

As much as people harp about the "me me me" generation, the US kind of just has that as a big principle. "Rugged individualism" seems to have really stripped community and caring about their countrymen from many minds. Crazy to think that so many don't want accessible education, healthcare and general safe living, when that's directly proven to drive down the crime rates so many fear.

24

bakedNebraska 5 days ago +7

We tend to favor more violent, reactive solutions to things in general, rather than long term prevention.

7

pickleparty16 5 days ago +19

Americans would send their grandmother to a concentration camp if it mean they could save 50 cents a gallon at the pump

19

PiccoloAwkward465 5 days ago +9

Just another downside to the common American trait of fierce individualism. If it doesn't affect me, I don't care! And as we've seen with many Republican voters, they lack the trait we call "empathy" where they could simply IMAGINE if they were in another person's position.

9

Mysterious_Lesions 5 days ago +2

It's not just the $7 fuel. It's the inherent effect in transportation costs which will be seen in goods and groceries in stores. We haven't come to realization the shortage of fertilizer will also affect food prices .

2

ReturnOfTheDogjaw 2 days ago +2

It’s okay, they won’t do anything about $7 gas either

2

Br0metheus 5 days ago +32

You radically overestimate the ability of Trump voters to put two and two together. They'll just blame Iran even harder.

32

Sensitive_Age_4780 5 days ago +2

Nah they'll just blame Biden or Obama. How dare they drink mai tais while the economy is in shambles because of them? /s

2

ghostalker4742 5 days ago +16

The 30% of America that lost their minds when eggs were 50c each are suddenly silent about $5 gas.

16

Realistic_Let3239 5 days ago +97

It's a miracle Trump has kept his attention on Iran this long, but he is already talking about starting a new war, Cuba has been mentioned a lot, but he can't leave Iran without humiliating himself. Which is entirely his own fault!

97

Blank3k 5 days ago +58

Cuba is certainly happening, has been since before Iran - the effects the US blockade is having on Cuba currently should be a war crime in its own right... But it's very little reported it would seem. But yep without a doubt, he'll plant a US flag there in passing probably be over faster than Venezuela. He's just kept interest in Iran because the cash provided by his manipulation there is massive, they trigger investments 20 mins before an announcement and make hundreds of millions even billions, no other war will have an effect so great, hence his longer term interest in it.

58

noir_lord 6 days ago +698

The IRGC doesn't have much regard for it's citizens or how it appears on the world stage, it did after all shoot a lot of them in the face not long ago. Realistically they can last until the situation becomes so dire it's a major threat to their staying in power. The US is (not without justification) getting the blame from the rest of the world for starting this mess without a plan beyond "we bomb them, then magic happens" and that'll get worse over time as we haven't fully seen the ramifications that are locked in *now* if the Gulf opens tomorrow never mind in a month or two. The IRGC doesn't need to win, they just need to not lose and that's a win. The US isn't even coherent about what winning means at this point. This is why you don't elect idiots to determine foreign policy.

698

BlahBlahBlackCheap 6 days ago +171

Lets back up 20 years. That's why you don't let the partisan media spread lies and stoke cultural division.

171

androk 5 days ago +80

35 years

80

[deleted] 5 days ago +22

[removed]

22

devilishycleverchap 5 days ago +16

Thank Newt

16

UseBackground2370 5 days ago +19

Or 47 years, and that's why you don't let religious extremists take over

19

eligodfrey 5 days ago +8

>47 years Had to do some quick headmath to determine if you were talking about 1979 when they took over Iran or 1980 when they took over the US.

8

UseBackground2370 5 days ago +5

The US kind of has moments y'all can breathe at least. Until the next lunatic religious extremist comes along. We've had to deal with these mullahs for almost 5 decades. I wasn't even alive for half of that!

5

eligodfrey 5 days ago +7

Well they've had some pretty significant power in one form or another here since Reagan, but I hear you. I live in a neighborhood full of Iranians who fled the revolution, so I hear how bad it was/is over there all the time and I feel for you guys. Hang on and keep hope alive.

7

Trextrev 5 days ago +4

Well if you don’t orchestrate coups to stifle democracy to make sure your puppet stays in power and keeps the oil flowing with you retaining most the profits despite the people. You don’t get religious extremists. Did we learn a lesson nah, after the revolution when it was on shaky ground and the religious extremist had not consolidated power what did the US decide? Oh we’re going to help and supply Sadam Hussein with weapons for his invasion of Iran, which galvanized the population behind the extremists. This is the bed that the UK in the United States made and after 47 years, the United States is making the exact same mistake.

4

National-Charity-435 6 days ago +69

The first term was infinitely better than witkoff, kushner, and vance running around like the Three Stooges

69

MrHedgehogMan 5 days ago +63

A lot of the safeguards were still in place during the first term. After all of the purges and the firings in the second term a lot of the checks and balances are gone and what’s left are ignored.

63

noir_lord 6 days ago +25

Only in that the last shreds of checks and balances held up some of their worst ideas, they planned for that this time hence the rip and tear out the gate. I'm not from the US or in the US so largely while I'm sympathetic towards the people who voted against this shit show it's an internal problem and I only really care how it affects the rest of the world. I'd quite like it they'd stop f****** around in our politics though.

25

RocketRelm 5 days ago +10

Realistically as somebody who voted against this shit show, I am eternally grateful that maga is incompetent to a fault. Americans gave trump a blank check to entirely destroy democracy permanently, and the fact that we still have mid terms at all is a blessing.

10

Imperium_Dragon 5 days ago +7

Yeah this admin somehow makes me wish for Pence.

7

TheWorclown 5 days ago +28

As an American I’m sitting here wondering when the tipping point is. Yeah, it’s very easy to sit here and say that “MAGA will never care” (because politically they don’t), but there’s a proven psychology on how mentalities change when events and circumstances start to personally affect them. MAGA never cared about ICE, or the demolition of the White House’s East Wing, or even how grossly corrupt Trump and his crooks are. MAGA doesn’t care about Europe or the war in Ukraine simply because it’s a whole world away, and they’ll never travel there to visit you all over there anyway (which is a shame, your food is fantastic and your countries beautiful). MAGA loves our blind support of Israel and our conflicts in the Middle East because they don’t get to feel the consequence and fallout of it all, they can just see “brown-skinned people” being killed. And yet midterms are coming up, and gas prices alone are as high as they’ve ever been and going to get worse and worse even after Trump finally decides he’s bored with Iran and leaves (not that Netanyahu will let him). Trump doesn’t care about any of this, because none of this personally affects him. He’s making money hand over fist and telling everyone who asks a question that he couldn’t care less about anyone’s problems. I can absolutely see a strategy where Iran just tells Trump all they need to do is outlast **him** personally, because unless some truly extreme acts and full commitment to fascism happens, Repubs are very likely gonna get absolutely slaughtered in the midterms even with extreme gerrymandering of districts. If that happens, that’s the end of anything Trump wants to do.

28

Superman0X 5 days ago +9

It will take another 4-6 weeks of the current situation for things to 'break'. Right now there is a 50% difference between oil futures, and oil delivered prices. It will take 4-6 weeks for this to close. At this point enough things will be breaking that it will be impossible for even MAGA to stick their heads far enough in the sand to not be aware of the situation. Things were always going to get worste before they got better... but we have not yet reached the peak pain point. The longer this goes on, the longer the pain will last... but there hasnt been enough pain for people to react... and once the pain is high enough, it will be lasting for a long time, because people were not willing to address the problem before they reached the peak pain points....

9

Superman0X 5 days ago +11

P.S. The dems (at this time) is not a party that will 'fix' this. They will stop things from breaking more... but they are not (at this time) a party of action.

11

hornswoggled111 6 days ago +214

Trump can survive much longer than that. It's just the rest of us that will suffer, but it's a sacrifice he is willing to make.

214

Scottamemnon 5 days ago +70

Kevin Hassett was celebrating how much Americans are spending on gas and how robustly we are all going into credit card debt like it was the best thing ever.

70

Admirable-Loss396 5 days ago +23

And yet Americans gas is so much cheaper than elsewhere. Wish they would pay at the pump similar prices to us.

23

hornswoggled111 5 days ago +17

Canadians say that America sneezes and Canada gets the flu.

17

PiccoloAwkward465 5 days ago +12

To zoom out a bit, it would be the incentive for some changes that the USA so desperately needs. My buddy at a job site used to drive 90 miles each way 5 days a week to come to work. That right there's just unnatural. Fuel shouldn't be so c**** that people say "well if I'm willing to sacrifice 3 hours minimum out of every work day just to get there and get home, I can do it". At $3/gal that costs around $30 for 1 trip. Jack that up to the EU average petrol cost and convert the units, that 1 trip costs more like $70.

12

mrhorse77 5 days ago +2

except we have no real alternatives except to drive everywhere, and europe as a whole has no idea how physically far apart everything in america is. for 3 decades my job was anywhere from 20-45 miles away from my home. zero way to traverse that outside of a car. and that is normal for the US. people having commutes of 1-2 hours isnt strange here. we are often traveling a distance to work that most people in europe would end up needing a passport for, since they went through 2 countries over that distance.

2

not_my_monkeys_ 5 days ago +11

Survival for Trump in this case would be better framed as “not getting wiped out in the midterms.” If gas and food prices keep going up between now and November he is cooked.

11

Jayandnightasmr 5 days ago +2

I'm already hearing the excuses from his voters, who would have slated Biden if they went up that much

2

ViolettaQueso 5 days ago +20

Iran has China & Russia and dum Trump has completely cut the US off from allies, except I guess bibi who is a money sponge and a whiner.

20

Irr3l3ph4nt 5 days ago +38

"Intelligence?! I don't need intelligence, I'm a genius!" \- DJT , probably

38

bajesus 5 days ago +4

For it to be a Trump quote you need another paragraph of incoherent rambling praising Hannibal Lector and bragging about being able recognize a drawing of a squirrel and lion in place of that comma you have there.

4

Motor-Region-1011 5 days ago +82

Lol...problem is Europe is all ready choking...middle east tourism is destroyed...Trump littery created the biggest cluster f*** ever...hes going to destroy the petro dollar and ruin usa for decades...

82

Constant_Threat 5 days ago +45

Almost like he was propped up by a foreign adversary to do that exact thing....hmmmm. I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

45

Gustomucho 5 days ago +26

And gave China the blueprint on how to strike America… if Iran manufactured enough drones and missiles to turn the American navy into a farce, what do you think China will do… Oh, and Iran foreign minister is in China right now, wink wink.

26

Benjamminmiller 5 days ago +29

> And gave China the blueprint on how to strike America You're huffing the strongest of red scare propaganda if you're exploring the possibility China would ever have interest in an armed conflict against America. > if Iran manufactured enough drones and missiles to turn the American navy into a farce, what do you think China will do… Absolutely nothing because it does not benefit them in any way and would come at a near world ending cost.

29

iLoveFeynman 5 days ago +18

You're missing something in your worldview: Deterrence is not just something that comes into play when others think of attacking you, it's something that comes into play when you attack others. China has its sights on Taiwan and the *only* reason it has not already acquired it by force is the US. If China can make it an absolutely untenable proposition for the US to position assets in the region with which to help defend Taiwan then the US is not going to defend Taiwan. By definition. If every square mile of ocean had a Chinese attack submarine the US would be of no real concern to China. If every square mile of relevant ocean could be reliably barraged by missiles and drones to the point that it would for sure overwhelm any naval countermeasures then the US would be of no real concern to China. The US is not going to lose thousands upon thousands of servicemembers and hundreds of billions of dollars worth of short-term-irreplaceable assets defending Taiwan in that scenario. It's not even going to attempt to. So that is what China works towards.

18

Benjamminmiller 5 days ago +2

Deterrence certainly goes into the calculus, but I'm not convinced the US would ever directly intervene in Taiwan regardless of military strength, and I'm not convinced China views incremental military advances as a primary deterrent, at least at this stage in their military buildup. Armed conflict with China would demolish the world economy, China is extremely risk averse and views the political fallout as more costly than the advantages gained by taking Taiwan (at the moment), regardless of whether they would face a military response. The economic cost comes into play first. From the perspective of the current administration this is why it does make sense to bomb Iran, while conjuring tariffs and weakening our trade relationship does not. Your biggest bargaining chip is to keep China reliant on cooperating, and maintaining the petrodollar and preventing flow of oil priced outside the USD enforces that reliance. Weakening trade does the opposite.

2

cool_lemons 5 days ago +6

That works both ways though. Taiwan can manufacture enough drones to keep China away.

6

mfhtotheizzo 5 days ago +59

Operation Epic Failure

59

neveruseyourrealname 5 days ago +4

Operation Epstein Fury

4

Vogel-Kerl 5 days ago +13

The president is asking the US intelligence agencies to "re-assess" their conclusions. *Not really, but I'm sure he's thought of it.*

13

wdomeika 6 days ago +82

I wonder if the intelligence officer who briefs Trump on this will be wearing a bullet proof vest ?

82

jaqattack02 6 days ago +49

I don't imagine this is new information to most people at that level. Also, you're funny thinking Trump will understand enough of it to get upset.

49

wdomeika 6 days ago +8

Touche!

8

BrianWantsTruth 5 days ago +10

Won’t be necessary. Trump with just say “nuh-uh” and make up his own “Intelligence”.

10

Randomwhitelady2 6 days ago +15

The FBI will launch an investigation into who leaked this any minute now.

15

Yvaelle 5 days ago +20

Despite a thorough investigation it was impossible to determine who was responsible for this leak... Because this week the SecDef meant to post it to his Signal Friends group, but accidentally sent it to a Fishing group with 2000 members. The FBI director told an entire bar full of people about it while wasted. The presidents son-in-law mentioned it to a conference room of emirates in Dubai. The SecHealth psychically communicated it to his hive of other worm-hosts. Oh and the president posted a screenshot of it on truth social, while claiming it meant the opposite of what it said.

20

awfulconcoction 6 days ago +5

No one briefs him because he will tweet out what they said. Have to keep him in the dark to protect state secrets.

5

SeeingEyeDug 6 days ago +5

I thought Trump's Intelligence Officers were Fox and Friends.

5

multic94 5 days ago +14

If you read the actual leaked report, the CIA also claims Iran still has up to 80% of its original stockpile of missiles and munitions.

14

poestavern 5 days ago +6

Ha ha ha…..of course they can…it’s a 3,000 year old empire!

6

KiLLiNDaY 5 days ago +19

Didn’t need the intelligence geniuses to tell you that. It’s like the world already knew. Then again, Trump prefers to listen to Israeli intelligence than his own.

19

HossDog2 5 days ago +20

Shitshow. Utter utter shitshow. Can’t these fuckwits understand they could let competent people act and just take the credit?!? I genuinely can’t recall a single time in history such incompetence has been unleashed, at any scale. Never mind the most powerful body in the world being run by such *staggeringly* stupid fuckwits…

20

DogDogDogDogog 5 days ago +2

Hitler invading Russia was quite a big clusterfuck as well.

2

BendicantMias 5 days ago +17

So they can last 4 months before they start facing hardship, which notably does not mean they insta collapse at 4 months btw. But imo the more significant finding is this - > Iran retains about 75 percent of its prewar inventories of mobile launchers and about 70 percent of its prewar stockpiles of missiles, a U.S. official said. The official said there is evidence that the regime has been able to recover and reopen almost all of its underground storage facilities, repair some damaged missiles and even assemble some new missiles that were nearly complete when the war began. So basically Trumps' claim of "obliterating" them this year are about as fake as his claim of "obliterating" their nuke program last year.

17

TYNAMITE14 5 days ago +5

They generally just have to outlast the midterms if theye bad enough, and probably a hard stop in 2028

5

EmmaFrostBroken 5 days ago +4

US intelligence only gave Ukraine a few days at most before their entire country would be occupied... Just FYI. They kinda underestimate these things.

4

CeeDubMo 5 days ago +8

Derp derp derp. The hazards of electing a moron.

8

Upset-Spring-7369 6 days ago +32

This was well known before his illegal war.

32

championchilli 5 days ago +10

If the CIA are leaking this, then that reeks of them not being listened to in the Whitehouse. If the politicians won't listen to your advice, then leaking it to the media to generate public pressure on said politicians is a time-honoured tradition. Source - work in central govt.

10

Conscious_Candle2598 5 days ago +13

absolutely insane that there's just a bunch of ships filled with raw energy just sitting around In the middle of the water.... well half of us are struggling justifying if it's worth it going to work everyday

13

Funny_Focus_1201 6 days ago +11

A country that’s been starved and embargoed for 20 years most likely has back door shipping channels and customers willing to take on risk for discounts.

11

cruelsensei 5 days ago +10

China is sending supplies into Pakistan and they just drive right over the open border into Iran. Russia is sending supplies via the Caspian Sea, and also via land routes through Turkmenistan. Iran also produces ~80% of their food internally. They're gonna be fine for quite a while.

10

lastSKPirate 5 days ago +9

> starved and embargoed for 20 years Oh, it goes way further back than that. Iran hasn't been free of international sanctions since the Shah was in power.

9

No_Celery_7772 5 days ago +3

They also have a clear & fixed rate at which they beat Trump: the November elections. After this he & his administration will be constantly besieged with investigations.

3

Necx999 5 days ago +3

Oh oh, U.S Intelligence is going to have a mad Orange guy list them as terrorist!

3

joebojax 5 days ago +3

Who needs fertilizer anyways, its only... checks calendar... planting season... too late! Here I thought I planted potatoes last fall to enjoy a treat I didn't realize it might be a saving grace.

3

jaspreetzing 5 days ago +3

That piece of information may well be "US intelligence", but the intended audience for the piece of information..

3

Adventurous_Light_85 5 days ago +3

These people have been at war for millennia. Any fool that thinks we will wait them out is ignorant.

3

SheSaidOtaku 5 days ago +3

I'm suprised if US even have intelligent people.

3

stogie_t 5 days ago +3

I don’t know anything about US politics but when I scrolled through their conservatives sub, it looked like those guys are still in support and think they are winning. Are Americans really going to riot just because petrol becomes too expensive? I dunno….

3

zIFeathers 6 days ago +10

Citizens are dirt poor with or without blockade

10

JonBoy82 6 days ago +14

True but what about Iran?

14

drivermcgyver 6 days ago +9

I really didn't think Iran was of the ones to play offense. They are build to just stay there forever and defend. I absolutely think they knew they were on the brink of being attack constantly and they have been prepared.

9

1911Earthling 5 days ago +2

People are dumb struck at the pump.

2

realKevinNash 5 days ago +2

Didnt I hear earlier it was two weeks?

2

natethegreek 5 days ago +2

They are holding out until after the November elections, they want to sink the Trump presidency.

2

DaddyCatALSO 5 days ago +2

no kidding

2

oopsallhuckleberries 5 days ago +2

If push comes to shove, China will float them money on condition they get some future d******* on some oil sales.

2

pabo81 5 days ago +2

The fact that a single shipping lane in the Mideast can cripple the US economy says a lot about the fragility of our market.

2

goatonastik 5 days ago +2

*stock market will surge on this news for some reason*

2

Fun-Conclusion-2527 5 days ago +2

People don’t realize that oil fields can’t be turned on and off on a whim. If the straight is closed for months longer, the oil fields from all these countries will have to be shut down and will take years to reopen.

2

MarcusQuintus 5 days ago +2

Anyway so that intelligence analyst has been fired.

2

U.S. intelligence says Iran can outlast Trump’s Hormuz blockade for months

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