ListNook

just_a_guy_named1681 Apr 18, 2026 +476

Goverment when i let my car's engine ran a touch too long vs when large companies destroy an entire ecosystem for a little profit.

476

Euphoric-Garden-1210 Apr 18, 2026 +54

Also governments when data centers hike up electricity prices for the consumers. "We have to raise prices because the power grid is old and can't handle the load you peasants keep putting on it." Meanwhile data centers get tax breaks.

54

ArmNo7463 Apr 18, 2026 +20

The same power grid we pay taxes for, and elected them to, maintain...

20

catsforinternetpoint Apr 18, 2026 +104

To be fair, you aren’t generating profit for shareholder.

104

just_a_guy_named1681 Apr 18, 2026 +18

True

18

sigmund14 Apr 18, 2026 +5

How no. You consume more fuel when not turning the engine off at traffic lights, thus need to get the fuel more often. More profit for oil industry.

5

NotAskary Apr 18, 2026 +46

I've stopped trying to go the extra mile because of this, there's no point if you deprive yourself your whole life to save the environment when companies do an order of magnitude more damage that you cannot offset. I'm not saying you shouldn't but you don't need to feel the anxiety of saving the planet, it's out of your individual hands you can help but it was never in your capacity to do anything significant, that was propaganda.

46

G_Morgan Apr 18, 2026 +6

You shouldn't. Home recycling and similar has always been a scam. 95% of waste comes from industry. What domestic waste does exist should primarily be solved by companies stopping the endless layers of packaging. Domestic recycling has always been about deflection

6

the_poope Apr 18, 2026 +17

The thing is: companies basically have to do it, otherwise a competitor will do it, gain an advantage and win over the other companies. That's how the game of capitalism works. The only way out of this is through regulation. So you have to vote on the right politicians and that is something everybody can contribute with that will actually matter.

17

Prin_StropInAh Apr 18, 2026 +8

“Why do we have all of this unnecessary regulation?” — MAGA Regulations do one or all of these three things: Protect the public. Protect the market. Protect the environment.

8

NotAskary Apr 18, 2026 +13

>companies. That's how the game of capitalism works. It depends. This not universal, the EU still regulates a lot of these practices, even when the company offshores their manufacturing to places that have no regulations. Let's be honest here, this is not capitalism, this is corporate greed. It's the do it for the shareholders for short term profits. There's a f*** Nestlé sub for a reason and it's not because of capitalism.

13

CatcatchesMoth Apr 18, 2026 +6

Let's say we have two companies with the same operating cost. If one can destroy the environment to save 20% of the cost, its likely going to outcompete the pro-environment one. Corporate Greed is a natural consequence of Capitalism because its the most advantageous trait for expansion. You can't seperate the two, and it can only benefit society if its cheaper / only possible through ethics. The two solutions a lot of people here see are regulation or revolution

6

NotAskary Apr 18, 2026 +4

My example mentions the EU because of the regulation solution. >Corporate Greed is a natural consequence of Capitalism because its the most advantageous trait for expansion. >You can't seperate the two, and it can only benefit society if its cheaper / only possible through ethics. Agreed, main reason I agree that capitalism works and you need to stop abuses. You want the efficiency, you don't want the corner cutting. >The two solutions a lot of people here see are regulation or revolution Something will happen in the next decade, and there's that famous quote about making peaceful change impossible, making violent revolution inevitable. The thing is people are divided by design that I don't believe we'll end up better. I agree with you.

4

CatcatchesMoth Apr 18, 2026 +3

Just look at Nepal and Bulgaria, the ball is already rolling.

3

MRSN4P Apr 18, 2026 +1

And Hungary, and arguably Mexico…

1

ieatyoshis Apr 18, 2026 +1

You are agreeing with the commenter above you…

1

NotAskary Apr 18, 2026 +2

Not really, there's nuance here. Capitalism is what everyone blames, but it's a system that works, it needs balances. What most of the time people will want is to abolish capitalism for another system, normally some kind of communist system. The problem is there are no working communist systems where people are not treated like Garbage. What most people fail to understand is that we are in oligarchy or a corporatocracy masquerading as a democratic government that follows capitalism. So no I'm not agreeing, I'm saying the problem is not capitalism, the problem is the governments turning a blind eye to the abuse because the people in power benefit from it.

2

LightDrago Apr 18, 2026 +5

In most cases, I think that people are referring to unchecked / uncontrolled capitalism that a decent portion of neoliberals are (largely) in favour of. There are a few loud screamers who will say we should convert to communism, but I am quite sure that is not the majority. The thing with uncontrolled capitalism is that it will eventually devolve into unethical practices and oligarchy, and this is why many people will blame capitalism. So yes, of course it is the government's job to prevent this. But that requires *active* intervention by the government. If we'd do nothing, capitalism *would* be the driving factor that causes environmental exploitation for the sake of shareholder value. I do think capitalism with government control is a better option over communism, but I would still argue that capitalism is the primary driving factor for the exploitation referred to. Whose "fault" it is then becomes a discussion based on schemantics, definitions, and blamability. I think you are all mostly agreeing on the need for more government intervention, the practical part on what has to be done, you're just disagreeing over the who or what is to blame.

5

Boxkid351 Apr 19, 2026 +1

F*** nestle is absloutly because of capitalism turning the other cheek to what they had been and still are doing. Capitalism LETS THEM pay to turn a blind eye and then courts under those same capitalistic rules say is ok because they are paid from the same deep pockets. Corporations are not greedy, capitalists are greedy. If capitalists didn't have greed for wealth, we would have limits on max incomes and regulations on not being able to buy politicians. Capitalists are greedy for money and they use corporations to obtain it.

1

maestrita Apr 18, 2026 +2

Sounds like the whole business is the problem, then. We should ban it.

2

2AvsOligarchs Apr 18, 2026 +1

If only there were sensible environmental parties. At least in Finland, the Greens are an urban party first and foremost, with their party core is a subset of various extremist activist groups. Voting for them for environmental reasons is out of the question because of all the baggage.

1

just_a_guy_named1681 Apr 18, 2026 +6

Yeah, Being told that you could help save environment is biggest lie ever told. Like what maters if i plant one tree. If these companies are going up and cutting down entire forest for their data centers.

6

NotAskary Apr 18, 2026 +10

You can make a difference in a group, it's not entirely a lie, the problem is that there's no point in depriving yourself when a minor celebrity will offset your entire sacrifice with a trip to coechela on their rented jet. Either everyone follows the same standard or it's just pointless and there are a lot loopholes to just bash the consistency of the average person and sell green stuff while the rest just ignore it. So live your life according to your principles and don't let them guilt trip you, but also don't go out of your way to polute just because nobody does it.

10

just_a_guy_named1681 Apr 18, 2026 +2

Yeah it's like prisoner dielema but you know that other prisoner will snitch

2

chipadd Apr 18, 2026

Like playing hymns as the titanic goes down. It’s good for your soul, but won’t save the ship.

0

Libinky Apr 18, 2026 +1

I have decided to recycle and conserve what I can. The huge amount of poison created for stock dividends and profit will be our downfall! NO DATA CENTERS! The people don’t need them the profiteers do!

1

narmorra Apr 18, 2026 +5

No worries, my friend. I'm using paper straws to offset them.

5

bestmaokaina Apr 18, 2026 +5

Yea but is life worth living if you are not maximizing shareholder profits?

5

just_a_guy_named1681 Apr 18, 2026 +1

According to the elites No they are not

1

DisastrousAcshin Apr 18, 2026 +1

The AI companies have convinced governments that's whoever gets agi first has basically won the game and will rule the world. Imo that's why all the stops are being pulled out to make it happen, and what makes this equally concerning

1

OkAstronaut4911 Apr 18, 2026 +1

Your ice car alone still pollutes the air around it much more - especially in cities - then any datacenter. The only direct emissions they have is hot air. Of course the energy they need must be generated. But at least in the UK this is still much better then any internal combustion engine car could.

1

Idiot_Savant_13 Apr 18, 2026 +1

All corporations exist solely to protect a few people from being held responsible for what they profit from. Literally why they were invented.

1

WanderingSimpleFish Apr 18, 2026 +1

Nestle enters chat

1

Sudden-Conclusion931 Apr 18, 2026 +238

"lobbying". When will we start calling this what it actually is? Why is it called 'corruption' in the developing world and 'lobbying' in the West?

238

Euphoric-Garden-1210 Apr 18, 2026 +57

We have been indoctrinated to believe our western democracies are flawless and corruption is minor. In truth corruption is just veiled with fancy words and our governments will just jangle some keys in front of us saying "Think of the investment opportunities! Think of the jobs data centers create! Future revenue!" and all the bad press goes away. Until we start holding them accountable, "lobbying" will continue as is.

57

GalgoIsTheBestDog Apr 18, 2026 -1

>We have been indoctrinated to believe our western democracies are flawless and corruption is minor. Bruh you're in the very heavy minority if you believe this, regardless of the country, at least in Europe.

-1

Euphoric-Garden-1210 Apr 18, 2026 +5

Do you have an argument aside from "nu uh" ?

5

GalgoIsTheBestDog Apr 18, 2026 -1

What argument? You literally made a wild claim that is in no way reflected in reality and is obvious for anyone that's been sentient in Europe for the past 15 years. I don't need any other argument. Your own original claim contained no better argumentation in itself.

-1

Euphoric-Garden-1210 Apr 18, 2026 +1

So in your opinion, everything is a-okay working as intended and there's no corruption in Europe?

1

flypirat Apr 18, 2026 +3

They're saying people are not unaware that lobbying is corruption. That the opposite is the case, people are very aware that lobbying is corruption.

3

GalgoIsTheBestDog Apr 18, 2026

That's literally the opposite of what I'm saying.

0

Stellewind Apr 19, 2026

Sure, on one hand, people will admit western democracy is not “end all be all” perfection of a political system. On the other hand, if you ask them, the same group of people will also look at literally any other kind of political system (mostly in developing world) with contempt and disgust, and they sincerely believe a democratic reform in those countries will instantly improve everything without question. The sense of superiority is true, and it especially reflects in language. Corruption vs lobbying is just a simple example, lots of same behavior will simply described with much positive term if it happens in democratic countries, it’s honestly comical.

0

sproge Apr 18, 2026 -3

Lmao, American? That's so far from the truth that the opposite is closer to reality, we're constantly being bombarded from Russia and friend, and right wingers about how terrible our governments are, to the point where most people have a way, way more pessimistic view of them than what our governments really look like in reality. Bitching about the government is one of the favorite national pastimes where ever you go in the western world.

-3

Euphoric-Garden-1210 Apr 18, 2026 +4

No, not american. Northern european. "Bitching" about the government is obviously true.. but that's where it ends, it doesn't lead to major changes. Corruption is still rampant and right wing conservatism is one of the key problems. Unsure why you brought Russia into this though.

4

sproge Apr 18, 2026 -2

One of the primary, even stated, goals of Russian information warfare is to erode trust and confidence in the governments of nations.

-2

Euphoric-Garden-1210 Apr 18, 2026 +5

Cool? Corruption still exists and our governments are doing just fine eroding trust themselves.

5

sproge Apr 18, 2026 -1

Uh, I'm confused about you being confused, have you forgotten what this conversation is about or something? You: "We have been indoctrinated to believe our western democracies are flawless and corruption is minor." Me: "That's so far from the truth that the opposite is closer to reality, we're constantly being bombarded from Russia and friends, and right wingers about how terrible our governments are, to the point where most people have a way, way more pessimistic view of them than what our governments really look like in reality." I'm not entirely sure what you find so confusing, can I help you with something or?

-1

ArmNo7463 Apr 18, 2026 +10

Bribery, I believe that's the word for what they're doing lol.

10

Big_lt Apr 18, 2026 +5

Legal vs illegal based on laws already passed where the people signing them years ago may have been corrupted

5

PotatoTyranny Apr 18, 2026 +2

Obviously because the West has transcended the past and no longer suffers from any kind of evil whatsoever, and when they do it's individual bad actors. See: everyone seemingly thinking Trump is the cause of all of the US's problems and if they elect a democrat things will be right again

2

badamant Apr 18, 2026 -7

Trump and the ENTIRE republican party have enabled this massive corruption. Blame them by name.

-7

Sudden-Conclusion931 Apr 18, 2026 +11

Sadly this is an issue that predates Trump by many years and knows no national or party political boundaries. Entire political systems have been captured by this kind of corruption

11

badamant Apr 18, 2026 -7

Dont both sides this. The scale of open corruption is new. The republican party did this and is responsible.

-7

Sudden-Conclusion931 Apr 18, 2026 +6

If this was only about Trump and only about the Republicans, then how does that explain corrupt decisions being made in the European Union? The blatancy and indiscretion of the Trump administration's corruption is new. The corruption and capture of the entire political process is not. And if you think it is then either you havent been paying attention for the last 30 years, or you haven't been around for it.

6

maximm Apr 18, 2026 +82

Lobbied = Paid off.

82

cryyingboy Apr 18, 2026 +35

nothing says green energy like lobbying to hide the numbers

35

macross1984 Apr 18, 2026 +9

US tech must be scared its emissions are going to stink.

9

Rare_Programmer_8289 Apr 18, 2026 +10

F*** these companies.

10

Euphoric-Garden-1210 Apr 18, 2026 +60

But tech bros keep telling me data centers are zero emissions, don't use any water and barely any electricity and are in fact the best thing ever?? /s Can we ban these f****** things already?

60

Valtremors Apr 18, 2026 -1

They make claims about closed system loop, but it doesn't work. You need to treat and then mineralize the water for proper immersion cooling, but thst water needs to be changed regularly and due to the process, it becomes waste water which is unusable for basically everything.

-1

Greedy-Cranberry-164 Apr 18, 2026 -16

The irony of calling for the ban of data centres on listnook

-16

Euphoric-Garden-1210 Apr 18, 2026 +33

Data centers were never this bad before AI. The AI bubble has made them an unsustainable plague.

33

WTFwhatthehell Apr 18, 2026 -14

You just didn't hear about them in the news and your social groups didn't attribute every time they stubbed their toe to AI/Data Centres.

-14

Majestic-Ad-1652 Apr 18, 2026 -1

While not great, AI usage accounts for an estimated 5-15% of the energy usage by data centres in recent years. So the vast majority is not AI. Source: https://www.carbonbrief.org/ai-five-charts-that-put-data-centre-energy-use-and-emissions-into-context/

-1

WTFwhatthehell Apr 18, 2026 -14

Nobody has ever told you they use barely any electricity. They told you (correctly) they don't use much water and all you understood were vibes of disagreement.

-14

Euphoric-Garden-1210 Apr 18, 2026 +12

Google's AI datacenters alone used 6.4 BILLION gallons of water in 2023 but I get that's \*not much\* to a bunch of greedy corporations.. or their bootlickers.

12

WTFwhatthehell Apr 18, 2026 -14

Yes. That's a tiny amount of water. They use small units to make it sound big to people who don't think good. Typically water use at the large scale is compared to farming where they measure in millions of "acre-feet" It translates to about 20k acre-feet which would translate to water for a little less than 8 square miles. (Cali numbers) Very possibly less than if all those data centres were built on the same land. To re-phrase: One of the world's biggest companies running a large fraction of **all** the data centres in the entite world uses about as much water as a single alfalfa farm. That usage is spread around the entire world with open-loop systems used more often in places where water is plentiful.

-14

Euphoric-Garden-1210 Apr 18, 2026 +5

It's not tiny amount when you realize that's just Google alone and water consumption with every data center operator increases every year. Aside from that, power grids cannot handle this many data centers. I know for sure my country's can't but they do not care. But considering you attacked my intellect from the get go that tells me all I need. You just regurgitate the words the corporations tell you. Spoilers; they f****** lie.

5

WTFwhatthehell Apr 18, 2026 -1

"Just Google alone" You picked it because its one of the world's biggest companies running a big chunk of all the world's data centres. Say stupid things and you will get mocked for saying stupid things. Fall for obvious tricks by manipulative journalists and get mocked.

-1

Euphoric-Garden-1210 Apr 18, 2026 +4

"You picked it because its one of the world's biggest companies running a big chunk of all the world's data centres." Yeah, imagine bringing up the biggest company running data centers in an article about data centers. Meta is obviously another major offender. Nothing I said was "stupid" but hey, I am not the one getting mad defensive for multi-billion corporations running the world to the ground. Hope google pays you well for all the bootlicking.

4

Halinn Apr 19, 2026

It still isn't very much water. The problem comes from *where* they're using water. Specifically, they like places with c**** power, which now means a lot of solar. Places that have that tend to not have a lot of water, thus making the usage a problem.

0

adriaans89 Apr 18, 2026 -8

The water is either on a closed loop or goes out again, it doesn’t get consumed... And unless they do something really stupid the water should not be contaminated from that. Also, fun fact, skipping one meal that contains meat once in a year saves more water per person for that entire year.

-8

Euphoric-Garden-1210 Apr 18, 2026 +3

Data on data center water usage is specifically "consumption" as in out of immediate human usage. Aquifer exhaustion is very real.

3

Thin-Usual-4359 Apr 18, 2026 +10

i mean alone that they do that, tells enough about how damaging these things are

10

frontrow13 Apr 18, 2026 +2

Because there's projects all over Europe building them.

2

isthereadrwho Apr 18, 2026 +2

Hungary has shown us that if a vast majority come out and vote against these people then we can make them go away. If one of your people successfully pushed for keeping the emission secret, then y'all should replace them next time around with somebody who says they won't do that

2

Kataphractoi Apr 18, 2026 +2

Should tell you everything you need to know about data center emissions: they're worse than initially assumed.

2

Phara-Oh Apr 18, 2026 +1

So did it succeed?

1

BorikGor Apr 19, 2026 +1

We should take them to court now, since those emissions are being kept secret for a reason.

1

BMCarbaugh Apr 19, 2026 +1

How do these f****** people sleep at night?

1

Chamberlain-Haller Apr 19, 2026 +1

Just like the doj is trying to keep Diaperdon's emissions a secret.

1

Bleakwind Apr 19, 2026 +1

Data centres are a direct competitors to everyone for energy and is causing our high ass bill? No shit. How may jobs does it destroy and not replacing?

1

Ultra_Metal Apr 18, 2026

The EU is incredibly corrupt.

0

Aromatic_Ideal_2770 Apr 18, 2026

This is the problem with EU, their corrupted politicians

0

-GenghisJohn- Apr 18, 2026 -3

How am I reading this? Am I part of the coverup? Where’s my gratuitous salary? Where are my lap dancings?!

-3

LiberalSocialist99 Apr 18, 2026 -21

Also data about damaging effects of wind turbines,report stored somewhere in Germany,cannot be accessed without “special” permission from the government body.

-21

LightDrago Apr 18, 2026 +5

What damaging effects in particular are you referring to? I do understand some caution regarding sharing too much information on (offshore) wind turbines, since they are critical infrastructure that can be sabotaged. Despite what some people claim about wind turbines, they're overall [much much better than any fossil fuel source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_wind_power)...

5

LiberalSocialist99 Apr 18, 2026 -6

Info came to me via Sabine Hossenfelder years ago.The report is only available with permission,she had a video about it long time ago. Infra sound one of the thing and idea that report is hidden should either be a stunt or a real thing.

-6

LightDrago Apr 18, 2026 +5

Okay, but what are the claims? What is the data on? Because as far as I can see from the wiki page, which links many credible sources, the advantage of wind over anything that's not solar, hydropower, or nuclear is huge.

5

LiberalSocialist99 Apr 18, 2026 -6

Among things mentioned is infra sound,and other things which we do not know,the idea that is hidden and special permission is needed is not suspicious I guess.

-6

US tech firms successfully lobbied EU to keep datacentre emissions secret

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