Urged by a Republican politician at a neoconservative think tank at a time when the US is beefing with the Pope hmmm
>Past Hudson Institute honorees include Nikki Haley,[107] Paul Ryan,[108] Mike Pence,[109] Mike Pompeo,[110] Ronald Reagan, Henry Kissinger, Rupert Murdoch,[111] D*** Cheney,[49] Joseph Lieberman,[112] Benjamin Netanyahu,[113] David Petraeus, Shinzo Abe,[114] Mitch McConnell and Elaine Chao.[115]
115
Fickle-Maintenance-16 hr ago
+25
Hard to make up a list of so many terrible people. Our world would be a vastly better place if every one of these people didn’t exist.
25
Sad-Society-576 hr ago
+19
Geez, that's quite the list of bastards
19
honk_incident6 hr ago
-22
Wow, trying to spin this away to be about US partisanship. Interesting.
-22
peterausdemarsch5 hr ago
+11
US politics are pretty united in trying to make China look as bad as possible.
11
old_ironlungz5 hr ago
+3
From a partisan US organization headed by a cabal of known right wingers.
If you’re not skeptical it’s because you agree with their agenda. Admit your partisanship and then we’ll perhaps proceed.
3
figherhigher7 hr ago
+132
Does the Vatican still have an army capable of forcing nations to bend to its will, or do they just want a strongly worded letter to a country that has a less than 1% belief in Catholicism?
132
George_Is_Upset6 hr ago
+68
This is exactly what I think whenever I see headlines like this mentioning the Vatican. Like what are they gonna do? Launch some crusades?
68
Admirable-Drama-4326 hr ago
+20
Not crusades, just influence… it won’t force change, but silence definitely won’t either.
20
Pure-Drawer-26173 hr ago
+1
What influence do you have on a country where the vast majority people dont follow your religion?
1
Ntroepy4 hr ago
+1
Trump has far greater influence on most American Catholics than the pope.
1
figherhigher6 hr ago
-4
It'd be funny to see them try, don't think they have quite that level of political power anymore.
-4
Admirable-Drama-4327 hr ago
+20
Not an army, just influence… but that only works if the other side actually cares what you say.
20
NormalSociety5 hr ago
+4
It's hasn't been about their armies since the Crusades. It's the influence. You know how much damage they could do, if the Pope decides certain people--or countries--are bad?
These days it's about soft power, not hard power.
Edit: Look what hard power has wrought over the past year. How have they done? Now, look towards those with the soft power and tell me how they have done.
4
Ntroepy4 hr ago
+1
A majority of American Catholics voted for and support Trump. I suspect their loyalty for Trump greatly outweighs their loyalty to the pope for many. (Granted that’s definitely not ALL Catholics).
1
NormalSociety4 hr ago
+1
Sure, absolutely, and many other religions did as well. But, as many do, they look to their leaders for guidance, and now that the Pope has said "f*** off", I bet you many Catholics (and other sects) will start to dislike him.
1
Ntroepy4 hr ago
+1
One can only hope! But we shall see - I doubt it matters at all.
1
SecureDonkey4 hr ago
+1
Just because you can't do anything to them doesn't mean you have to keep silent about it.
1
aNuggetsUncle6 hr ago
+18
What a useless article
18
Avid_Lorehound6 hr ago
+55
"Republican congressman and prominent human rights advocate"
Looooool
55
trisul-1086 hr ago
+21
US conservative targets Vatican because of event in 2017. Gimme a break, this is just retaliation for the Pope's criticism of Trump's adherence to the Seven Deadly Sins and other acts of blasphemy.
21
cheekeong0016 hr ago
+25
funny, a republican talks about human rights when their president bombing people left and right, what irony is this?
25
Crittsy4 hr ago
+6
Surprise, surprise he's a Falun Gong supporter
6
ethnicprince6 hr ago
+12
Suspicious anti-china posts coming in right when the us is getting more scared of them. The Vatican is probably the furthest thing from anything about China at all.
12
Sad-Society-576 hr ago
+8
It must be exhausting being a pope who actually cares about modern moral values and faced with all the modern horrors. There's probably some new appalling shit to condemn on his desk first thing every morning.
8
Admirable-Drama-4327 hr ago
-21
If even half of these allegations are true, this isn’t just a human rights issue, it’s one of the darkest things happening right now… and the fact it’s still debated instead of universally condemned is honestly disturbing.
-21
peterausdemarsch6 hr ago
+56
There's isn't much proof or any. This story is being pushed by the Falun gong cult and their Media outlets like epoch times. Of course I can't prove or disprove anything but I'm personally highly suspicious of these claims.
56
[deleted]6 hr ago
-2
[deleted]
-2
peterausdemarsch6 hr ago
+13
I for once wouldn't choose a fundamentally religious newspaper as a trusted source for example. Their bias is right in the name. Falun Gong is involved with all sorts media outlets that may seem trustworthy to some. Their main narrative is the organ harvesting narrative and other news outlets may not been fact checking because a China critical message is an easy article for them. As I said I can't prove or disprove anything but real proves are just not there.
13
AggravatingJudge70926 hr ago
+1
Organ harvesting of followers of Falun Gong is probably not true(aren't they like a mild cult or something?) , but organ harvesting in general is more murky and has some precendent and evidence
1
glumjonsnow5 hr ago
+1
the hudson institute is a think tank, not a news outlet.
1
peterausdemarsch5 hr ago
+3
"The Hudson Institute is a prominent American conservative non-profit think tank headquartered in Washington, D.C" surely they're completely unbiased? "The organization is funded through private contributions, corporate support, and government grants" surely that wouldn't affect anything right?! The article is released by the Catholic herald a fundamentally religious newspaper..... CEO John P. Walters of the Hudson institute is a republican by the Way. The GOP has no interest in making China look bad right? Right?!
3
glumjonsnow5 hr ago
-2
the hudson institute is still not a news outlet. it's a think tank and whether you agree with their perspective or not, it's a think tank that works with academics, not journalists. you can disagree with their views - i do - but they're still not a news outlet.
and yes, the catholic herald reports news that affects catholics. how could you tell?
none of this is nefarious idk why you're so angry. if you think they're wrong on the facts, just say so and move on. the ad hominen isn't very useful
-2
peterausdemarsch4 hr ago
+2
I never said anything about the Hudson institute until you brought it up.....
2
nuclearbearclaw6 hr ago
-1
What about the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights? They aren't the Falun gong or their media outlets, nor are they a religious newspaper. They believe the reports are credible, though like you said, there's not much proof.
[https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2021/06/china-un-human-rights-experts-alarmed-organ-harvesting-allegations](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2021/06/china-un-human-rights-experts-alarmed-organ-harvesting-allegations)
-1
peterausdemarsch6 hr ago
+5
Totally agree there's probably some truth in there somewhere. Organ trade is run by international crime organisations that are transnational. Sure there's probably Chinese nationals involved but China as country is such an production and trade powerhouse they simply don't need to do such dirty business. They have way bigger and better plans.(New energy, robotics, technology). I would expect this type thing from north Korea who's whole economy has been running on crime for decades now. The west especially the USA has a high interest in making China look worse then it is. they're saying it out loud they want to stop China from progressing. It's state doctrine.
5
RevolutionaryYou24005 hr ago
+1
“GENEVA (14 June 2021) – UN human rights experts* said today they were extremely alarmed by reports of alleged ‘organ harvesting’ targeting minorities, including Falun Gong practitioners, Uyghurs, Tibetans, Muslims and Christians, in detention in China.” It’s still allegation by the same people. It’s prob just wide spread abuse and corruption within the prison system instead of state purposely doing it.
1
dongkey10017 hr ago
+21
Because it is not true!?
21
Avid_Lorehound6 hr ago
+16
"If even half these allegations are true..."
This is your brain on centrism. Instead of looking for evidence you just take the middle ground of two arguments regardless of proof.
16
AspectSpiritual91436 hr ago
+1
We know it is not true, but big if true.
1
Admirable-Drama-4326 hr ago
-7
Fair to question it, but it’s not coming out of nowhere either there have been multiple reports and investigations over the years raising concerns. Feels like something that deserves scrutiny, not just dismissal.
-7
TheGreatMightyLeffe5 hr ago
+7
Surely, if there have been several investigations, they would've turned up something more than rumours at this point?
I'm not even saying it hasn't happened, I'm just saying there is no more proof of Chinese organ harvesting than there is of the US government being in contact with aliens.
7
AggravatingJudge70926 hr ago
-8
It's quietly accepted as true because
1. It's very easy to get an organ transplant in China, even though China has historically had very low organ donation because of Chinese traditions and such that require bodies to be intact after death, among other things. Despite that, there aren't really long waitlists or heavy screening that usually follows organ transplants
2. The official number of organ transplants far exceed the number of organ donations or organs recieved through other legitimate means (about 3 - 3.5x more). The official figure for organ transplant surgeries is also widely considered heavily under reported (about 60K - 100K vs the official figure of 10K per year, i.e 15 to 30 times more organ transplants than legitimately recieved organs)
3. This part might be a little conspiratory but it's possible these organs might be coming from Uyghur "re-education" camps or from human experimentation. There were a series of videos posted on douyin showing what appeared to be a mass graveyard of young children in a sewer near an abandoned hospital. One of the popular theories circulated was that it was the dumping site of an organ harvesting ring. The person who did the investigation and posted it on douyin was disappeared by the government shortly after for a while with all his social media being hidden. It was later reinstated with the investigation videos being removed and him never speaking about it again. <-- But again, this could also be false, there were allegations that the bodies were merely abandoned props and such.
-8
Skythewood6 hr ago
+5
1. How long is the waitlist, and how easy is it to get organ transplant? Compared with which countries?
2. Is it per organ or per donor? One donor can donate multiple organs.
3. People dissapeared by China can reappear?
5
AggravatingJudge70926 hr ago
+4
1. Waitlist ranges from hours to most commonly a couple days. It never usually exceeds 1 month. China has the WORLDS SHORTEST waitlist times for organ transplant surgeries. (For comparison the average in most OECD countries is measured in years)
2. The source was ambigous on whether it was organ donors or organ donations, still, most common type of transplant is the kidney transplant, people are not donating 3 (or 30 on the highend) of their kidneys i would imagine.
3. Yes? The most famous disappear then reappear case i can think of is Jack Ma who was competely gone for about 3 months after critiscing the financial regulators and state owned banks. Followed by 3 years of being absent from public view but not necessarily "disappeared".
4
Skythewood5 hr ago
+4
AI Overview
China has a critical organ shortage with approximately 300,000 patients needing transplants annually, but only about 10,000–20,000 procedures are performed. The waitlist relies on a national computer system (COTRS) prioritizing urgency and compatibility, with 97% of organs coming from deceased donors. Despite a 2015 ban on using executed prisoner organs, concerns persist over sourcing, and traditional beliefs inhibit voluntary donations.
**Key Aspects of China's Organ Waitlist**
* **Waiting List Size:** Roughly 300,000 people need transplants every year, creating a massive disparity between demand and supply.
* **Allocation System (COTRS):** The [China Organ Transplant Response System (COTRS)](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7147652/) was implemented in 2011, mandated by law in 2013 to ensure a transparent, automatic allocation process based on matching, urgency, and geography.
* **Waitlist Characteristics:** The list includes patients awaiting kidney, liver, heart, and lung transplants. By 2019, over 47,000 people were officially on the kidney transplant waitlist specifically.
* **Wait Times:** While some reports suggest long waiting periods typical of international standards, other reports on the [China Organ Harvest Research Center](https://chinaorganharvest.org/report/findings/1-on-demand-transplants/on-demand-transplants/) highlight instances of extremely short wait times for on-demand, or "on-demand," transplants
I looked up the link highlighted, and under the myth tab, at the very bottom;
# [How organ harvesting from prisoners of conscience can happen on a large scale in the 21st century](https://chinaorganharvest.org/myth/how-organ-harvesting-from-prisoners-of-conscience-can-happen-on-a-large-scale-in-the-21st-century/)
Under communist rule in China, prisoners of conscience are labeled as “enemies of the state” and systematically demonized and dehumanized. Their bodies are treated as property of the state to be used at will.
China started performing transplants with organs harvested from executed prisoners on a small scale in the 1970s. In the years that followed, it also used organs from prisoners of conscience, Uyghurs, Tibetans and House Christians in captivity. The large-scale development of China’s transplantation system starting in 2000 coincided with the Communist Party’s campaign to wipe out Falun Gong.
It's a Falun Gong media op
4
AggravatingJudge70925 hr ago
+3
Organ harvesting from prisoners stopped in 2015 (officially). The top paragraph looks like a hallucination because I pulled the waitlist information from state run media sources
3
evilfungi6 hr ago
+6
If you Google it, China has one of the highest amount of organ donor in the world, although rate of transplant per capita is low.
6
AggravatingJudge70926 hr ago
+2
About 11.5 thousand (living + deceased) donors vs 24,000 surgeries (2024 data) (source: Xinhua News Agency, a China state run news agency)
2
evilfungi5 hr ago
+2
I have here 7.3 million registered donor and around 16,000 transplants annually. These are sources from **China daily** and **Global Times.**
2
AggravatingJudge70925 hr ago
+1
Yes, the number Google ai overview is quoting global times over is the number of people **recieving kidney transplants, 16,000 per year**, including all transplants, about 24,000 per year.
Xinhua is reporting **total organ donors, 11,000 per year**
1
blankarage6 hr ago
holy ytsplaination
0
Kalnb4 hr ago
+1
except it’s not true, the entire forced organ harvesting thing is entirely the claim of a crazy cult.
1
Joyous-Volume-677 hr ago
the what hasn't what
0
DaySecure76425 hr ago
-8
Some of the darkest secrets in Chinese society. They censor it real hard and will never admit it. Political prisoners are the most common victims. But even mainland chinese parents are scared to let the schools do health tests for the kids, in case their blood tests found them matching for organ transplant and "get disappeared".
-8
RevolutionaryYou24005 hr ago
+9
China observer fulan gong type stuff lol. I seen th excact same video before. Thats not true. Annual health checkup is normal in China.
9
Fickle-Maintenance-14 hr ago
+1
The whole origin of the organs thing is because the Falun Gong cult believes their founder is a god, and by practicing their “Falun Dafa”, it makes their organs have supernatural powers, logically the CCP must therefore persecute them in order to take their organs to gain said powers…
Like if you take 3 seconds to think about it you would realize how ridiculous it all sounds.
57 Comments