ListNook

Every so often as we introduce new features and options on listnook, we revisit our Privacy Policy to clarify and update how we use your data on listnook. We care about your privacy, and we know you do, too. We are changing our Privacy Policy to prepare for an upcoming mobile app made by listnook and to clarify how location targeted ads affect your privacy. **The full text of the new policy can be found [here](/help/privacypolicy).** See the end of this announcement for the TL;DR version of the changes. We also made minimal edits to our [user agreement](/help/useragreement) to fix some typos and to make it apply to listnook apps. This revised policy is a clear and direct description of how we handle your data on listnook, and the steps we take to ensure your privacy. Yes, we are going mobile, building an app that covers new ground and complements our site and other existing apps. No, it is not available yet, and we'll be sure to let you know when it is. We want everyone to feel comfortable using an app made by listnook, so we are building it with the same user privacy protections we have for listnook today. We do want to let you take advantage of all the great options mobile can offer, so you’ll have the ability to opt-in to more features. We will be collecting some additional mobile-related data that is not available from the website to help improve your experience. As we did with the [previous privacy policy change](/r/blog/comments/1dhw2j/listnooks_privacy_policy_has_been_rewritten_from/), we have enlisted the help of Lauren Gelman (/u/LaurenGelman) and Matt Cagle (/u/mcbrnao) of BlurryEdge Strategies. Lauren and Matt have done a fantastic job crafting and modifying the privacy policy. Lauren and Matt, along with myself and other listnook employees, will be answering questions in this thread today about the revised policy. Please share your questions, concerns and feedback about these changes - AUA (Ask Us Anything). The revised Privacy Policy will go into effect on **May 15, 2014**. We want to give you time to ask questions, provide feedback and to review the revised Privacy Policy before it goes into effect. **We allow ad buyers to tailor ads based on a user’s country or metropolitan area. We are now signaling posts that have location targeting on them. We are adding more information about how location targeting affects you in the privacy policy.** * listnook has allowed ad buyers to tailor ads to your computer’s general location (your country or metropolitan area) as signaled by your computer’s IP address. We think this is a privacy friendly way to provide you with more relevant ads. We continue not to create or contribute to any profile that tracks you across the web. * We will let you know when an ad is location-based with simple icons (http://www.listnook.com/wiki/targetingbycountrycity). You should know that interacting with a location-based ad could reveal your computer’s general location (since some ads — like for a music venue in San Francisco — are only seen in some geographies). **We will be launching listnook Mobile apps. The information they collect will be governed by the same privacy practices governing the listnook website.** * If you use the app without signing in to listnook, it will store your in-app activity, but not link it to your listnook account. * If you use an app while signed in to listnook, we will associate your app-based activity with your account as if you were browsing the listnook website. * As is the case with our website, we only use information collected via the app to provide our service, and we never disclose it unless required by law or in an emergency. * The app uses Google Analytics so we can learn how groups of users interact with it. * Deleting your listnook account may not delete the information collected by the app if you previously backed up the app’s information elsewhere. * A listnook app may also allow you to post to social media, including Facebook or Twitter, but listnook will not connect to the servers of those services, share information with those services, or post on your behalf.

198 Comments

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +459

[deleted]

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kemitche Apr 29, 2014 +363

> That said, sorry I'm still blocking Google Analytics in Ghostery though because Google already knows way more about me than I care to admit and I'm slowly losing trust in them. Well then you'll be happy to hear that we will be providing Google Analytics opt-out preferences in the app!

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[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +58

kemitche Apr 29, 2014 +132

As with listnook.com, listnook gold subscribers will be able to turn off ads in the app.

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[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +15

That's great! Does it actually remove the ad functionality completely, or will it still fetch the ads and then just not show them to us?

kemitche Apr 29, 2014 +38

There's no reason to waste your bandwidth if you're not going to see the ad ;)

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +19

Perfect :D For the record, it's not the bandwidth I'm personally worried about, though it's a valid concern for many. I just wanted to make sure that advertisers wouldn't be tracking me (my IP, which never changes) behind the scenes even though I wasn't seeing ads on the screen.

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +7

MisterMeatball Apr 29, 2014 +116

Will there be an Android version of the app?

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kemitche Apr 29, 2014 +183

We're building for both major platforms, so yes, Android and iOS will be covered.

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[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +48

kemitche Apr 29, 2014 +70

Well, to be fair, when I upgraded my work laptop, I got one with Windows 8 on it, just so that I could start building a Windows Phone version if & when we choose to go that route. And no, I'm not being sarcastic!

JXC0917 Apr 29, 2014 +7

>I could start building a Windows Phone version ~~if~~ & when we choose to go that route. FTFY. I *really* don't want to sound pushy or anything, but I probably will. So, I apologize ahead of time. There shouldn't be an if about WP anymore. I get it. It's still a small OS, but it's growing. Fast. And with the release of WP8.1, it's setting up to be a major player in the mobile world. All of the shortcomings of owning a WP (no siri/google now and no notification center being the big ones) are gone. The only real issue is apps. Apps are a real catch 22. There are no apps because there's not a lot of people. There's not a lot of people because there aren't a lot of apps. But there are some damn good 3rd party apps, beautiful ones, too. And as more people start switching, the apps will come. It's probably best to jump in sooner rather than later. /u/quinbd created Baconit and /u/calebkeith either created or works on Readit. I really think it's a good idea to at least contact one of them. /r/windowsphone would greatly appreciate it :)

goldman60 Apr 29, 2014 +13

You guys should consider a full Windows 8 app, even if its just a webview with notification support, I know I would use it.

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +1

The /r/windowsphone community is actually pretty active. I don't really care all that much because I'm likely switching back to android later this year, but a bunch of people over there might be really interested.

megadeus Apr 29, 2014 +558

Both Windows Phone users will be disappointed to hear that.

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SaraBee Apr 29, 2014 +83

WP actually has a couple of really nice Listnook apps. [Readit is beautiful.](http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/readit/77ca2a13-7a17-43bb-84c4-1cba1e514b78)

papers_ Apr 29, 2014 +33

Wow, that app is beautiful.

MightyNooblet Apr 29, 2014 +23

I'm happy with [Baconit](http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/baconit/fa4e749a-a521-43f1-b2cd-40bd1a0a8875)

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +292

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honestbleeps Apr 29, 2014 +18

will both apps be held to the same design etc - e.g. "Listnook Official" app is the same on Android as it is on iOS aside from OS-required differences, or will they be independent of each other?

Acidtwist Apr 29, 2014 +37

Our app designs are going to be as consistent as possible across platforms, yes. And we're also following OS standards as well where appropriate.

caltheon Apr 29, 2014 +3

will the android version be available on Amazon Appstore? So many apps are missing there and us poor Kindle users don't have the option to use Play

haltingpoint Apr 30, 2014 +4

**If you are using Google Analytics, can you confirm if signing out of the app on your mobile device will unlink the activity from your profile in Universal Analytics?** I'm in the online marketing/web analytics world and my understanding is that once a given device is initially associated with a userID, it maintains that association unless you push a new userID to it (such as when a new user logs in). So if you simply log out, it has enough of a device footprint to continue associating your behavior with the profile you previously logged in as. Would really appreciate a technical answer on this one, ideally backed-up by Universal Analytics official documentation. Also, are you passing in a personally identifiable userID? Google explicitly prohibits this: >["You must provide your own unique, persistent, and non-personally identifiable string ID to represent each signed-in user. This ID is most often provided by an authentication system."](https://developers.google.com/analytics/devguides/collection/analyticsjs/user-id) If you are using another mobile analytics platform like Flurry or something, would also like clarification on how that works in there.

kemitche Apr 30, 2014 +5

Great question. To put it simply: We won't enable user ID unless we can be sure that we can provide a suitable "log out" mechanism that dissociates future GA data from that session with the previous user ID. If we *do* enable user ID, it would almost certainly be your listnook account ID. Edit: Just to be extra clear, we are **not** currently using universal analytics / "User ID".

haltingpoint Apr 30, 2014 +5

Thanks for the details. Did you mean you're not using the user-level tracking feature of UA? Also, you said currently--do you have any plans to in the future? The listnook account ID is most certainly personally identifiable, so I'm not sure how you could use that unless you meant you were using it for something else outside of UA since pushing it into there would violate their terms.

BadCowz Apr 30, 2014 +2

Again will there be a paid version to opt out of all adds and Google tracking stuff?

MrNarc Apr 29, 2014 +16

Thanks for staying so well connected to the community. Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread here but when will you be able to share more information on this mobile app? Or have you already? Thanks to all the team for running this great company.

kemitche Apr 29, 2014 +83

When it's closer to being ready. Just after Half-Life 3 is released.

MrNarc Apr 29, 2014 +56

HL3 confirmed. What a great day!

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +8

April 30, 2014: Valve releases the long awaited Half-Life 3.

savagealyx Apr 30, 2014 +4

Will an iPad version of the app be available eventually? I know this isn't *exactly* related, but I haven't found any great listnook apps for the Ipad yet, and I'm stuck using a mobile-sized version of the app (since it works best)!

We're not at a point where we want to make promises, but tablets are something we're almost certainly going to be working with.

mdempsky Apr 30, 2014 +5

Thank you for keeping a log of your previous privacy policies and for date-stamping them for when they change. A lot of sites don't do that, and I think it's important. Additionally, I personally find it nice to be able to easily see what changed from policy to policy without having to manually re-read the whole document again. As a software engineer, it's easy for me to use tools like [diff](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diff) to compare documents, but I think users would benefit if you provided these diffs yourself directly. E.g., Google includes "comparison" pages for their privacy policies (sample: [changes from December 20, 2013 to March 31, 2014](http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/archive/20131220-20140331/)).

DoctorOctagonapus Apr 29, 2014 +8

Just promise me something, Please allow the Android version of this app to be installed to SD card. I use Listnook Is Fun and it's really good but it plays havoc with my Galaxy Ace because it refuses to install anywhere other than the tiddly little internal memory.

remog Apr 29, 2014 +8

Came here to find the usual "Listnook is evil", "Listnook is NSA" comments. Was not disappointed. Listnook is going to make changes whether you like it or not. They are being upfront, that goes along way. I noticed some people questioning Google Analytics, which I can understand. Why not invest in a tool like Piwik which gives you the power of GA but is open source, and the data you collect is yours? (probably cheaper too)

trai_dep Apr 29, 2014 +2

Do you have an ETA on when https: will be on by default when browsing, and will the upcoming app also default to https:?

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +3

betona Apr 29, 2014 +2

Will the app use SSL on the login/password? (and how come you don't default to that on the web, speaking of privacy?)

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +2

alystair Apr 29, 2014 +1

Please please please make your Android version is compatible with BlackBerry 10! BB10 can run Android apps with minimal changes. Although we're a niche group for now, the OS is really worth looking at even for a native client.

makemeking706 Apr 29, 2014 +1

If I restrict the permissions of the app, for example, through the Xposed framework, will that break it?

governmentyard Apr 29, 2014 +199

> listnook has allowed ad buyers to tailor ads to your computer’s general location (your country or metropolitan area) as signaled by your computer’s IP address. We think this is a privacy friendly way to provide you with more relevant ads. A privacy friendly way would be to allow us to opt out of location tracking in Settings. I first came to use and admire the internet because it *didn't matter where in the world you are*. Now it feels as if the whole web is obsessed with where I am.

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Nesaniica Apr 29, 2014 +946

This comment has been overwritten by an open source script to protect this user's privacy. If you would like to do the same, add the browser extension [GreaseMonkey](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/greasemonkey/) to Firefox and add [this open source script](https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/10380-listnook-overwrite). Then simply click on your username on Listnook, go to the comments tab, and hit the new OVERWRITE button at the top.

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ekjp Apr 29, 2014 +187

We want to give users more choices that are different, not the same. We're not building a mobile replacement for the website. We love what is already out there and we're not planning to duplicate what has already been built.

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[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +57

How will the new apps be different? Will it be along the lines of Paper - a different view of the same thing? Can you be more specific?

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +98

bllewe Apr 29, 2014 +35

And find out why doctors hate her.

ladfrombrad Apr 29, 2014 +3

>We're not building a mobile replacement for the website. Would *not* having a mobile site (.compact as we all know is buggy) exclude future users who may come across an interesting link here but (I've read the posts about this also been 'a good' thing, but that's for another post in /r/theoryoflistnook) be put off by listnook's interface? Sharing a listnook link on (that god forsaken website) Facebook doesn't seem to have any follow up/feedback and I suspect users not having a listnook app installed nor getting redirected to a 'mobile friendly site' may frighten them, so to speak.

rexx1 Apr 29, 2014 +1264

It's gonna be hard to beat out AlienBlue.

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teleekom Apr 29, 2014 +96

Since we're on this topic, what is the best listnook app for Android? EDIT: From the following comments. They are all great, I think it's just matter of personal preference [Listnook Is Fun](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andrewshu.android.listnook) [Baconreader](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onelouder.baconreader) [Listnook Sync](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.laurencedawson.listnook_sync) [Listnook News](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=free.listnook.news) [Flow For Listnook](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.deeptrouble.yaarlistnook) [RedReader](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.quantumbadger.redreader)

Eastern_Cyborg Apr 29, 2014 +83

I use listnook news. Easy user switching. See flair on relevant sublistnooks. See upvotes and downvotes on all comments and posts. Easy interface (though there may be a learning curve if you used to another.) Highlight all new comments in last *"x amount of time."* Color codes for making nested comments easier to follow. And best of all, night mode all the time.

newtothelyte Apr 29, 2014 +12

This too is my favorite listnook app and the one I use for 98% of my listnooking, however it has two problems: You can't delete a post from the app, you have to open up the post on your phone's web browser, log in again, then select 'delete'. I forgot the other reason.

bravoavocado Apr 29, 2014 +24

Best is obviously subjective, but my personal favorite is [Listnook News](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=free.listnook.news&hl=en).

Futurames Apr 29, 2014 +51

I've used a few different ones and Listnook is Fun is my favorite. It's so easy to use.

BackJurden Apr 29, 2014 +232

I enjoy Listnook is Fun.

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iruber1337 Apr 29, 2014 +105

Great app and the dark theme looks perfect.

105

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +659

If they're smart, they'd team with the developer and pay him boatloads of money to just make that the official one.

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[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +507

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Siro6 Apr 29, 2014 +46

ad hoc sophisticated encouraging rob dime square quack thumb tan treatment *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev/home)*

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +221

*fingers crossed*

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sourcreamjunkie Apr 29, 2014 +353

*salad tossed*

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What_The_Fuck_Vargas Apr 29, 2014 +41

Agreed. I love AlienBlue, but there are some things (like saving comments, or viewing sidebars while browsing comments) that it can't do yet. I'd love to simply see Listnook team up with the existing developers to improve what is already there, instead of creating an entirely new app.

Icomefromb Apr 29, 2014 +125

Listnook is Fun is pretty great on Android.

125

unique616 Apr 29, 2014 +2

Can I still edit my comment first then delete it to keep it a big secret?

DiddyMoe Apr 29, 2014 +35

I remember someone mentioning that Listnook will never create a mobile version of their website in the form of an app so people will continue to innovate products that enhance the Listnook experience. Perhaps they were wrong but it does raise a question. With this app, will third party Listnook applications be negatively affected in anyway or is this app going to be released as the "official" app while allowing us to use third party apps? I personally continue to use the desktop version of the website on my phone because 1) I never looked into third party mobile apps (laziness could be a factor) and 2) I didn't see the incentive to use the mobile version in the first place. I felt like they were missing many key features that make the browsing/ posting experience worthwhile. Will this "official" application work just as well or even better than the desktop version of listnook? EDIT: And a follow up question! Is it possible to look into/ incorporate the use of other cryptocurrencies to purchase things like Listnook Gold such as Dogecoin or Reddcoin?

ekjp Apr 29, 2014 +36

We will continue to encourage and support third party apps and developers. We've improved our API this year to make it easier. We talk regularly with the developers of the popular apps to get feedback and answer questions. We'll be announcing a project with a couple of them in the next several days.

1964peace Apr 29, 2014 +591

>Keep in mind that when you comment and interact with a sponsored headline, others who view that same ad may be able to infer basic information about the location of your computer (since some ads – like for a music venue in San Francisco – are only seen in some geographies). Good to know

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jenakalif Apr 29, 2014 +307

It's not always going to give away your location and most often it's obvious — by the language used or the location of the event or thing being advertised. We'd love for people to feel comfortable commenting on listnook ads and felt that this was an extra layer of transparency.

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manofsleep Apr 29, 2014 +258

I thinks it's almost equivalent to posting on sublistnook that is based on your city/university location. It's only as revealing as you let yourself be.

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ThoughtlessBanter Apr 29, 2014 +26

Yeah, I don't think ad companies knowing my general area is an invasion of privacy at all. Keep up the good work, Mods.

1964peace Apr 29, 2014 +59

I agree. I think it's great that you mentioned this

BlatantConservative Apr 29, 2014 +96

Define emergency? Like, would a family be able to ask Listnook for an account password or information if there was a suicide risk or something (to look through PMs or see into a private sublistnook)? I guess I dont know what an emergency that requires access to someone's Listnook account would be. Im not attacking the admins here, I would just like some clarification.

alienth Apr 29, 2014 +92

If there appears to be imminent danger to human life, we would call that an emergency and act accordingly. We're also very aware that this is something which people joke/troll about constantly. We have a list of internal criteria which we measure incidents against before taking any action with a user's private data, with regards to emergencies. If after evaluating our criteria we find that there is a clear, present, and specific danger to human life, we may reach out to relevant authorities. Luckily this is something we rarely have to do.

Bushes Apr 29, 2014 +38

Is there a possibility to get this list of criteria to see what is emergency worth for ourselves?

mtgoxxed Apr 29, 2014 +31

I too want to know how to fake an emergency. A better request is to ensure full disclosure of when private data is actually given out in an emergency, rather than trying to get the algorithm they use for deciding what is an emergency.

trowawayds Apr 29, 2014 +12

Full disclosure of what information and to whom? I don't think absolute full disclosure is a good idea at all. I think they should notify *the individual* whenever they give out private data, but I would be against them disclosing specific details to *everyone*. If listnook calls the authorities with your private data, you should at least have the option to keep the incident private. For example, consider if someone attempts suicide, by disclosing that information, it could make the situation worse. A lot worse. It's not okay to draw unnecessary attention to those people on the internet while they're in the midst of a crisis already, especially when you account for trolls, cyber-bullying, stigma, etc.

wub_wub Apr 29, 2014 +19

>The posts and comments [...] are not deleted from our servers – ever – and will still be accessible after your account is deleted. However, we only save the most recent version of comments and posts, so your previous edits, once overwritten, are no longer available. Do you have any plans on enabling users (maybe for a fee or as a gold feature) to access more than previous 1k items? Because practically once they're over that number it becomes impossible to remove/edit the information from your servers by editing it. I know it has to do with caching and the way it works. But maybe offer "export" feature (that uses spare server time to serve those requests, or limit it to 1 export per month of gold) where you get links to *all* your comments which you can then edit/delete if you want to.

spladug Apr 29, 2014 +40

We do intend to make a data export feature. A good portion of the code is already written at this point, but there are a lot of security aspects to it that need to be worked out before we'd feel safe releasing it — it's super important to not allow someone to easily break into your account and download everything you've ever done in one convenient file.

wub_wub Apr 29, 2014 +5

Another point for adding 2FA :) My suggestion (but you've probably already thought of this): Password+2FA required to initiate export. The download link is delivered via email (if available) and expires after download has been initiated and/or after certain time (like 24hrs). Sounds safe to me. Anyway, I'm glad to hear that you're working on this and thanks for the response.

ReyRey5280 Apr 29, 2014 +330

Wait, so I'm now going to get popup ads trying to sell me girls in yogapants, bicycle p**********, and sandwiches on the mobile app? In all seriousness, will there ever be(or, is there) advertisement focusing based on sublistnook subscriptions?

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jenakalif Apr 29, 2014 +406

No pop up ads. No hot single girls near you. No retargeting. Those blue ads at the top of your screen -- promoted posts -- are served based on your subscriptions. It's an ad for your frontpage. These frontpage ads have always worked like this.

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Holybasil Apr 29, 2014 +365

What about cold single girls? I got a lot of sweaters and I'm in a sharing mood.

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akronix10 Apr 29, 2014 +103

Settle down there Bundy.

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someguyfromtheuk Apr 29, 2014 +145

> No hot single girls near you. Ok :(

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OMGItsNotAPhaseMom Apr 29, 2014 +58

[Cheer up, friend.](http://explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Rob/singles.png)

spaghettiohs Apr 29, 2014 +29

> girls in yogapants, bicycle p**********, and sandwiches i'm down for these ads

honestbleeps Apr 29, 2014 +19

> In all seriousness, will there ever be(or, is there) advertisement focusing based on sublistnook subscriptions? honestly as much as people would get upset about this - I think there ought to be. The bills don't pay themselves, and as long as your subscriptions are only used to determine what ads to show you and aren't actually disclosed/sold to a third party I think it's something Listnook should've been doing years ago.

dylan Apr 29, 2014 +27

This is how promoted posts have worked since they were introduced...over 5 years ago.

my understanding, and please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, is that promoted posts appear: a) on sublistnooks the ad buyer chooses to show them b) on your homepage if you subscribe to that sublistnook that's not what I'm talking about here, nor is /u/ReyRey5280 I don't think. Rather, if you see that I'm subscribed to /r/hockey and /r/chicago you can rightly surmise I'm interested in Blackhawks stuff. Now start compositing information from more than just 2 subs that obvious, and you get the idea...

honestbleeps Apr 29, 2014 +136

> The app uses Google Analytics so we can learn how groups of users interact with it. I've been thinking about adding this to RES - solely to learn what features people are turning off, finding useful or not useful, etc, but have been afraid of backlash since listnook can be so finicky about things. I would allow an opt-out, of course, but still... Looking forward to finding out how people react to this. It's entirely possible to want to use analytics for completely useful and non-nefarious reasons and in fact that's how analytics are usually used!

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[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +163

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honestbleeps Apr 29, 2014 +61

I'm considering going that route. However, the challenge with making it opt-in is that you only get a slice of a demographic of people with a mindset that they're going out of their way to share info with me. RES has millions of users, thousands or even hundreds of thousands of which **don't even know there's a settings cog!** -- seriously, see the posts we get in /r/Enhancement sometimes... Obviously no decisions have been made yet, but there is absolutely nothing personally ID-able in google analytics. We'd get [event name] occured [N] times. It's not like we would have your username, IP address or anything else interesting to look at.

getignorant Apr 29, 2014 +67

I think the issue isn't so much with the data *you* receive is as much as the data Google receives. While you see "[event] happened [X] times", Google, through tracking cookies and whatnot, can synchronise that information with all the other information they have about me. And they already know a lot about me I'd wager, despite my darndest attempts to be as anonymous as possible on the internet. I think that's what (privacy interested) people are the most wary of, rather than you getting some general usage statistics. Edit: saw only later this already had been brought up further down the comment chain ... Oh well!

James20k Apr 29, 2014 +15

People aren't worried about you getting their data (anonymous etc), its companies like Google that are the problem. Is there any way to implement your own usage statistics into res?

mikekearn Apr 29, 2014 +35

Might be better to allow opt-in, if you're worried about backlash. Yes, you'll probably get a significantly smaller pool of data, but it will be from people who won't get mad at you for collecting it, since they volunteered. Personally, I always opt-in for those kinds of things, since I figure it's the least I can do in exchange for whatever free service I'm getting.

insomniasexx Apr 29, 2014 +7

There are alternatives to Google Analytics that capture aggregate data. The main issue I have with GA is that Google now has even more information about me (and my users) and our surfing habits. Hubski uses Piwik (which runs on our Hubski's own server) for analytics. With Piwik, you have full control over what gets logged and not logged, how long it is stored, etc. The biggest (and best) difference is it doesn't get sent to a third party. I don't know if this is feasible for RES, but it's worth looking into alternatives. I don't know why Listnook still uses GA, honestly. The Google mega-empire is becoming more and more scary. For reference: [Piwik Privacy Policy](http://piwik.org/privacy/) [Hubski Privacy Policy](https://hubski.com/pub?id=146278) If you have any questions about Piwik, logging, etc. you can make a comment in that Hubski thread. The devs (mk / forwardslash) will respond.

goldman60 Apr 29, 2014 +28

You could do what Firefox does and say "hey submitting usage data would help me out, here is what I have collected from you, would you like to let me send it now and in the future?"

If you do this, I'm in. You can see which features are used, which settings are changed from their defaults, etc., which I'm sure will be very helpful. But if you take my data from me without my permission or without informing what data you are collecting, I will find you and I will do stuff to you. Weird stuff. Butt stuff. But I'm all for making RES better!

Even if you're using the analytics in a responsible and limited manner, it's still providing that extra information to Google. Google and Facebook have too much profile information on me already, and I'm always looking for ways to limit that.

aieronpeters Apr 29, 2014 +4

Why not use an alternative, like piwik? You control all the data then, and therefore it's a lot less invasive, since people obviously already trust you.

honestbleeps Apr 29, 2014 +5

haven't looked into alternatives yet, but you're the second to suggest piwik. i'm definitely willing to look into it. free time is a huge commodity though, so barrier to entry is a concern. i'm not paid to work on RES, so my time is mostly dedicated to my job...

asynk Apr 29, 2014 +16

So, I'd prefer if you allowed the location based ads to let me override them. 1. I often browse through a masking proxy which appears to come from a very different location than where I am 2. I travel, but the travel is busy and generally highly regimented and so ads would be generally irrelevant, so I'd prefer to see ads as if I was at home base

_Dimension Apr 29, 2014 +2838

So now I can meet hot and horny singles in my [your home town here]area[/your hometown here]? hot damn

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jenakalif Apr 29, 2014 +2095

A human on staff here reviews every ad before it goes live. We don't allow a number of dubious ads like hot single girls near you, link bait with s*** celebrity posters and more. No need to fear here. :)

2095

Im_100percent_human Apr 29, 2014 +55

> A human on staff here reviews every ad before it goes live. We don't allow a number of dubious ads like hot single girls near you... Confirmed: Listnook DOES want me to be perpetually single.

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +108

108

paperdragon6661 Apr 29, 2014 +54

I know of a place you can get p**** enlargement pills and v***** super c****. You know... just in case the meeting goes really well

RabbitFeet25 Apr 29, 2014 +104

Oh god, not you. Doctors *HATE* him.

104

e-di Apr 29, 2014 +148

I like how you said a human on staff as if the majority of staff were robots.

148

Kadmos Apr 29, 2014 +186

The majority of staff are in fact, cats.

186

Iogic Apr 29, 2014 +191

[The Listnook Council](http://i.imgur.com/fGYCsXw.jpg)

191

xfyre101 Apr 29, 2014 +108

[i picture it more like this](http://cl.jroo.me/z3/o/x/r/d/a.aaa-Cats-at-work.gif)

tocilog Apr 29, 2014 +17

How do we verify the admins' humanity?

argv_minus_one Apr 29, 2014 +31

With a CAPTCHA, same as how they verify ours.

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +106

Did you also review every ad back when Listnook was running Scientology ads?

106

the_crustybastard Apr 29, 2014 +83

Tagged: Suppressive person. Heh.

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +1495

[What about hot single cats?](http://adultcatfinder.com/)

1495

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +1607

1607

I_cant_speel Apr 29, 2014 +144

https://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/sx/www.catgifpage.com/lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Q4n7Zxr88Eo/Tk0V8V1n6qI/AAAAAAAAF0w/Hupq_RYt1tY/50.gif.pagespeed.ce.AG0Wwwj0tb.gif

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[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +882

Swiggity swooty. I'm comin' for that b****.

882

Sthr33 Apr 29, 2014 +721

http://i.imgur.com/ExIqChP.gif

721

FuajiOfLebouf Apr 29, 2014 +31

I looked a little closer and said to myself "That's James May, how dashing."

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +150

http://i.imgur.com/ROmPDoF.png

150

uhmerikin Apr 29, 2014 +54

Captain Slow is tearin' it up!

grisoeil Apr 29, 2014 +40

this is great, but beware of the cat chat, it's VERY obscene stuff and comes on very strong with those meow lines.

HolographicMetapod Apr 29, 2014 +28

>I'm getting like an orangered a minute on listnook from linking this thing.

812many Apr 29, 2014 +81

Thank you! My cat is very lonely and this will totally improve her life.

Icomefromb Apr 29, 2014 +33

Should have known a listnook mod post would talk about cats almost immediately.

NSMike Apr 29, 2014 +38

Does the introduction of your own mobile app mean you may block alternatives, such as "listnook is fun?"

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +14

They'd have to shut down/internalize/etc. their API for that to happen, which would also kill RES.

UsingYourWifi Apr 29, 2014 +11

>We don't allow a number of dubious ads like hot single girls near you Finally Listnook takes responsibility for my inability to meet hot single girls.

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +27

Will the app be compatible with Symbian v3. (Yes, I am 1000 years old)

samplebitch Apr 29, 2014 +104

Yeah I've always wanted to get my girlfriend one of those. They're expensive though.

trueslashcrack Apr 29, 2014 +159

[Relevant Cyanide&Happiness](http://explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Rob/singles.png)

159

MajorParadox Apr 30, 2014 +6

The first time I saw that I didn't realize there was anything past the first three panels. The joke still held up though.

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +13

NotSafeForShop Apr 29, 2014 +58

Will there be an opt-out option for location based advertising? I understand the Silicon Valley status quo is that your IP location is not PII, but I strongly disagree with that and would like the choice to not be tracked that way or have any personalization in the advertising I see.

Wikiwnt Apr 29, 2014 +12

OK, tell me if I have anything wrong here: * Every time you get served an ad, Adzerk receives your IP address. The policy does not state whether or not they get your username, so I'll assume they will. In any case many users will allow them to retain tracking cookies to keep track of the IP addresses between sessions. * Adzerk can (and presumably will) share "aggregated non-personally identifiable information" with publishers i.e. advertisers. As pointed out above, your IP address isn't considered PII, so I'll assume any publisher can get the entire list of IP addresses you've used to access Listnook. * How to use this: Suppose you want to humiliate, say, some Democratic congressional staffers, because you're a Republican. You figure, probably some of them have gone in to Wikipedia from home to fluff up their candidate's article or to make rude comments about their opponents. On Wikipedia the IP addresses of non logged in users are listed publicly, but it is treated as "anonymous" because if they're on some residential ISP who knows who they are? So you strike a deal with one of the many advertisers to get the list of associated IP addresses from Listnook. _Now_ you look up all the known IP addresses of Democratic political offices (I imagine the hard-core Republicans know those pretty much by heart) and look them up in the Adzerk data that you've gotten via the publisher, and now search all the IP addresses that they _share a Listnook account with_ in the entire dataset of Wikipedia IP addresses to see which ones have edited. You then go through these looking for anything juicy. The result, eventually, is that you have (I think) a Listnook account name, a Wikipedia IP address's edit history, a congressional office, all linked up. After that you can go to work with the power tools, looking up all the dox on one or a few targets that you can. Result: some headline comes out about how Democratic political candidate(s) are associated with some plot to skew Wikipedia. Is there anything about this model that would _not_ allow this outcome?

frymaster Apr 30, 2014 +3

> Adzerk can (and presumably will) share "aggregated non-personally identifiable information" with publishers i.e. advertisers. As pointed out above, your IP address isn't considered PII, so I'll assume any publisher can get the entire list of IP addresses you've used to access Listnook That wouldn't be aggregated information, that would be individual information. For it to be aggregated it has to be a summary across many users (e.g. "5% of users came from this country" or "12.5% of users who viewed your brownie recipe book ad also clicked on links to bongs on amazon")

Kentucky6996 Apr 29, 2014 +778

define giving away data "under an emergency" what kind of emergency?

778

Blood_Fox Apr 29, 2014 +338

> If there appears to be imminent danger to human life, we would call that an emergency and act accordingly. > We're also very aware that this is something which people joke/troll about constantly. We have a list of internal criteria which we measure incidents against before taking any action with a user's private data, with regards to emergencies. If after evaluating our criteria we find that there is a clear, present, and specific danger to human life, we may reach out to relevant authorities. Luckily this is something we rarely have to do. This is coming from /u/alienth :)

338

Justice-Solforge Apr 30, 2014 +27

According to the privacy policy, you refuse to honor a browser's "do not track" requests. Why would you refuse to honor that request from the browser?

Pauller00 Apr 29, 2014 +381

So basicly everyone on /r/suicidewatch ?

381

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +74

I guess it also apply if somebody makes ~~dead~~ death threats to another person. Or those bright people in /r/Health that sometime post stuff like: "I just stab myself with a rusty iron in the aorta, should I go to the doctor or better just sleep over it and wait for tomorrow?" EDIT: I never remember when is death or dead.

damnshiok Apr 29, 2014 +52

Think death threats is the correct phrase. Dead threat sounds like a threat that is impotent.

JaapHoop Apr 29, 2014 +352

It would be really sad if people were worried about posting there because of this.

352

anonee91 Apr 30, 2014 +171

It's bad enough that there are already so many idiots over there wanting to play internet hero by digging up personal info and calling the cops on people.

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[deleted] Apr 30, 2014 +83

Calling the cops on another person is one of the most dangerous and violent actions one can do even if well meaning. Many situations call for such an escalation but many don't. Know the possible consequences of your actions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlBntEm1n2g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFR1q-Ko-P8 Edit: Gold :) Thank you very much.

darkneo86 Apr 30, 2014 +91

To be fair, years ago I was part of a MUD type community and they sleuthed me enough to get the authorities to my house after an attempt. Changed my life. But I somewhat knew those people, so it was kind of different.

[deleted] Apr 30, 2014 +4

Was it Achaea by chance?? I loved that one. I had a family assert one point, lost touch with the game and came back a year later with a different character and ran into my "sister". I told her who I was and she freaked, emote-hugged me and paraded me around. It was nice. The comradre in an MMO is similar but in MUDs it seems more immersive. I miss that

unknownmosquito Apr 30, 2014 +64

that makes it a lot different

possibly_depression Apr 30, 2014 +26

Yeah, I actually need to know if that means that if I have a crisis and I post to suicide watch, my info will be given to the police.

alienth Apr 29, 2014 +188

It is defined the in the paragraph below the text, which can be found [here](http://www.listnook.com/help/privacypolicy#p_16). > prevent imminent and serious bodily harm to a person For example, if someone says they're going to go down the street and shoot person X, and we believe that to be a credible threat, we're going to notify the authorities with what info we have. > to address fraud, security, or spam For example, if someone has maliciously broken into the site, we may report what info we have on the attacks to the authorities. We also may share info with other parties on spammers using our site. For example, if we're getting a lot of spam making use of an image site, we may contact the image site and let them know. > or to protect our rights or property. For example, if we need to enter into a lawsuit with someone using our site, we may use what info we have to locate the relevant parties. Edit: I should point out that this is already in the current privacy policy. This text has been unchanged for about a year now.

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[deleted] Apr 30, 2014 +30

Does this 'imminent and serious bodily harm' apply to oneself? For example, if Bob has a mental health issue and is having a pretty awful day and posts about this & feeling low, potentially suicidal in /r/Depression or many of the other mental health help subs out there, is Bob going to recieve a knock at the door from the Police every time he posts on Listnook that he's feeling suicidal? As someone with a history of mental health issues personally, I'm a little concerned that this could have an impact on people feeling able to come onto Listnook and talk openly & seek peer support without worrying about Listnook notifying the authorities. Although I don't use Listnook this way personally, I know a lot of people who do and who on many dark days rely on being able to talk to others in similar situations. To what extent is this policy enforced when it comes to mental health subs & expressions of mental anguish? Could you provide some clarity on what Listnook does in these situations, and if there is a line on where Listnook steps in to notify someone out of a concern for that person's health can you be more explicitly clear about what it would take to cross that line or otherwise? Thanks.

grumpy_old_maniquin Apr 30, 2014 +89

and there goes the crazy confession bears... [welcome the new era!](http://i.imgur.com/0zDG5pc.jpg)

alienth Apr 30, 2014 +24

The fraud bit is intended for fraudulent activity involving the site, for example buying gold with a fraudulent credit card. We can look at clarifying this if needed.

Thulohot Apr 30, 2014 +13

Another user mentioned other sublistnooks might be impacted by this in a negative way if the wording stays this way. /r/suicidewatch for example... Having this hang over their head probably isn't what they need when thinking about posting or not.

Sometimes_Lies Apr 30, 2014 +9

But they're not changing it, it's been the policy for a while now. As far as I know there hasn't been a rash of police raids on people after they've posted to that sub. So, it's probably safe. Hopefully people won't misinterpret it.

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +195

195

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +72

> emergency I am also wondering about this.

Curlysnail Apr 29, 2014 +864

I hope (being welsh) that the location specific ads get me some high quality sheep!

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jenakalif Apr 29, 2014 +547

This has been long hoped for from our non-US audiences. I'm not sure if you see much sheep advertised online, but we'd be happy to run some ads for sheep.

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powerlanguage Apr 29, 2014 +708

[:)](http://i.imgur.com/GJMHqII.jpg)

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thenewiBall Apr 29, 2014 +470

Oh gross man, that lamb is way to young even the welsh have standards...

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phobos2deimos Apr 29, 2014 +145

Seriously, that sheep is baaaaarely legal ^^^kill ^^^me

RedOktober1 Apr 29, 2014 +169

Ugh....*cough*.....yeah.....standards.

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[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +70

http://imgur.com/jlGFos7

MrCirrith Apr 29, 2014 +12

We aren't going to see any of the New Zealander's for the next 6 months in that case

Tman972 Apr 29, 2014 +17

How dose the Welsh man find his sheep in the tall grass? Very satisfying

stesch Jul 19, 2014 +1

> We will be launching listnook Mobile apps. Any news on that?

rexx1 Apr 29, 2014 +2056

Will the moose still be there to thank me for not using AdBlock?

2056

jenakalif Apr 29, 2014 +1804

Yes. And the penguin.

1804

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +828

828

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +566

566

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +121

121

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +110

Captive wild animals do that. It means they are slowly going insane and have exhausted previous options. It's quite sad.

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troglodave Apr 29, 2014 +158

It's true. I gnaw on the posts of my cubicle all the time.

158

HatchetToGather Apr 29, 2014 +145

That's a reference I haven't heard in a really long time.

noahthegreat Apr 29, 2014 +131

> *long horses* [Here's the link for those of us who weren't there](http://www.listnook.com/r/pics/comments/8aqjh/awww_this_is_just_too_sad_pic/c08pp5z)

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JoatMasterofNun Apr 29, 2014 +18

Best read of the day. That is a great example of trolling without being a complete asshat.

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +51

I hope the ads in the mobile app are blended well into its design. Also I want to be able to purchase no ads with Listnook gold. Will this be implemented?

Acidtwist Apr 29, 2014 +71

Yes, listnook gold membership will grant you the option of hiding ads in the app.

jcy Apr 29, 2014 +7

"hiding". does that mean all the marketing vectors, geolocation, and tracking cookies, etc ad nauseum are still actively monitoring a profile?

canyouhearme Apr 30, 2014 +7

Is your privacy policy compatible with the EU privacy laws, and if not, how are you deficient? Those rules aren't sufficient, but they do form a minimum level of privacy protection for the user. If you don't meet them, it fairly certain that you are doing something wrong. You might also like to consider that the EU generally is having a sense of humour failure with regard to US government and commercial spying - and regulations may be on the cards in future for services with international reach that don't meet the minimum standards. Better to meet them now.

[deleted] Apr 29, 2014 +4

I'm not sure if you are aware of this but .... geo-targeted ads won't work with me. I live in Australia, in the middle of Queensland and in a rural area. My ISP uses a Melbourne-based node to route me to the rest of the world. Geo-location puts me in Melbourne Victoria, not Bogansville Queensland and not even Brisbane Queensland. If I'm using mobile data, my provider uses a Sydney-based node, thereby geo-locating me some 1600km from where I actually live. Apart from the fact that I never deliberately click ads, it is absolutely *pointless* showing me ads from Melbourne or Sydney. Do you imagine the usual listnook experience goes something like : "Ahhh ... a few hours to indulge in browsing /r/earthpo... no wait! An ad!! Must click!!!"

SsurebreC Apr 29, 2014 +11

> The posts and comments you make on listnook are not private, even if made to a sublistnook not readily accessible to the public. This means that, by default, they are not deleted from our servers – ever – and will still be accessible after your account is deleted. **However, we only save the most recent version of comments and posts, so your previous edits, once overwritten, are no longer available.** Interesting. How do you manage to back up the system including all posts, then once edits are made, go into the backups and update all the posts that have been edited and doing this to all past backups and all relevant posts?

alienth Apr 29, 2014 +27

The original text is still in our emergency backup data, which we delete after 90 days. It's also possible for it to technically exist as a 'dirty row' in the database system until a vacuum runs.

heanson Apr 29, 2014 +20

You hired a company called BlurryEdge Strategies to craft your privacy policy? How blurry should we be expecting?

hoilst Apr 30, 2014 +6

I don't mind the concept of advertising - hell, listnook gots ta get paid, son - but f*** me, can we not act like ads are some sort of massive favour to users?

czechmeight Apr 30, 2014 +7

>listnook has allowed ad buyers to tailor ads to your computer’s general location (your country or metropolitan area) as signaled by your computer’s IP address. Does this mean you will be supplying ad buyers with our IP addresses or that you will interpret the IP on your own servers and only supply the ad buyers with our general location?

Vogeltanz Apr 29, 2014 +4

Thanks for posting, and I've now read the updated policy. I assume Listnook has thought about simply requiring a paid subscription to generate revenue -- something like $1 per year ala WhatsApp -- in lieu of going the traditional paid advertising model. But, under either model, the Listnookor pays. Either way with dollars, or we pay with privacy data. I see that the privacy policy indicates (at least in its current iteration) that no user-identifiable data will be sold to third-parties, though (1) some might wish to foreclose even aggregated, geo-specific data from being disclosed, and (2) the nature of the TOS is simply to change when the economic desires of the company changes. I have no doubt that, one day in the future, Listnook will sell user-identifiable data. I think that's a fair assumption unless and until Listnook includes a contractual clause in its TOS prohibiting it from doing so for as long as the company remains a going concern, and inducing all Listnookors to rely upon the promise. Which leads me to my question (and, again, I appreciate that the company is open enough to even give this question a voice): why the decision to collect data from users rather than money? Does Listnook believe that the community is unsustainable if a small amount of money was collected each year? Has a study been done? Are there plans to exclude any Listnookor's IP data if that Listnookor purchases gold or some other subscription-based service? I don't purchase Gold now. I realize that my voice rings hollow on this point. But if Listnook begins selling IP data, and if I could avoid that (relative to me) by buying Gold, I would do it.

aphoenix Apr 29, 2014 +29

This all seems pretty reasonable to me. I love that you guys always take the time to make sure as many people as possible are aware of the changes that you're making.

Mikey129 Apr 30, 2014 +4

One visit to /r/gonewild and now all the Facebook ads are about whores and if a summer squash can be pushed out of a v*****... Oh look a Mr. Hands ad

UnholyDemigod Apr 29, 2014 +32

> an upcoming mobile app made by listnook Please for the love of god tell me it has sidebars. Every moderator on the site will love you forever if it does

AngryWizard Apr 29, 2014 +23

The sidebar is extremely easy to access in listnook is fun app - just tap the little circled "i" in the top bar when viewing a particular sublistnook. It does take about 4 seconds to load though. Having a sidebar always visible (if that's what you mean) on a phone would take up so much room. And it couldn't be at the bottom bc the pages load automatically when scrolling down.

dudethatsmeta Apr 30, 2014 +3

Is this going to be the general direction for listnook as time goes on and you need to monetize? Or will you be focusing on alternative streams of revenue? For instance, should we expect you to roll back your privacy policy further to include more and more targeted ads as the site grows? Obviously this is not a huge change in policy, but it is definitely a concern among many of your savvy users. Thanks for letting us participate in the discussion surrounding your policies!

We like you all, so we wanted to let you know about some Privacy Policy changes

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