Yea China really wants to support the global order until it decides that it wants to invade Taiwan
69
FancyRobot5 days ago
+16
Taiwan is the small fry in the grand scheme of things, Russia and the North Sea is the big goal with their fresh water
16
Kenichi22335 days ago
+4
Possibly but Russia has nukes
4
FancyRobot5 days ago
+3
But with their population, industry and improvement on quality of life water is becoming very scarce and those problems will only get worse and global warming won't make anything better either. The west media eats up the desalination plant remedy with a knife and work but China is burning through the water they have currently even with those. Trying to maintain an empire without water needless to say won't be easy
3
Dull-Law32295 days ago
+2
No, it will. It has manuvered the UN to deny Taiwan as a country and has blocked Taiwan from recognition in multinational institutions.
If China takes Taiwan, that won't change.
2
AspectSpiritual91434 days ago
+4
If US can support the global order while bombing Iraq why can't China?
4
mydogsnameispoop5 days ago
+2
Depending on which party is running Taiwan, maybe China will not need to use any force or invasion at all and they will just reunite in a peaceful manner.
This of course would piss off the US so I can see the US try and sabotage a peaceful reunification
2
Kenichi22335 days ago
+23
The vast majority of Taiwanese dont want anything to do with China. Especially after what China did to Hong Kong in 2019
23
theixrs5 days ago
If this happens it will happen in the long term, not the next 4 years and whatnot
France and Germany were mortal enemies (literally at war) then united in the EU decades later.
0
Kenichi22335 days ago
+8
Perhaps if China became democratic but that is a stretch.
Per your example EU only after the death of the Nazi regime
8
theixrs5 days ago
-7
Form of government doesn’t really matter. The US and Canada are both democracies but relations turned super icy after threats of annexation. Meanwhile Vietnam and phillipines are super friendly despite Vietnam being communist
-7
Kenichi22335 days ago
+9
And is Vietnam calling for the annexation of the Philippines.
Your argument is doesnt work
9
Icy-Scarcity5 days ago
-6
That HK protest was funded by US.
-6
Kenichi22335 days ago
+7
Sure it was.
7
Epyr5 days ago
+3
F*** off with your blatant Chinese propaganda
3
wmoonw5 days ago
-22
With the way the US is acting lately, I won't be surprised if in the future Taiwan would willingly join China a la Hong Kong style. No need to invade when China looks slightly better than the US lol
-22
Kenichi22335 days ago
+17
Yea that isnt how that works. Taiwan's people dont even see themselves as Chinese anymore. Also look at how China violates the 2 systems agreement 25 years early via the national security law.
Also Taiwan is not controlled by the US so your last sentence makes no sense
17
wmoonw5 days ago
-10
Well I was being cheeky and I didn't mean tomorrow. In 50 years from now with all shenanigans Trump is doing, if future American presidents can't control what he did now, who knows what the people of Taiwan might think of the US. Things that China does now that looks bad might still be better for the people of Taiwan than whatever the US is doing. Maybe Taiwan won't want to be controlled by the US years from now.
-10
Kenichi22335 days ago
+8
Taiwan isnt controlled by the US it is a independent government.
Also all polling data suggest that the Chinese identity in Taiwn Will continue to decline. So in 50 years I would suspect that barely Taiwanese people would even consider themselves as Chinese
8
wmoonw5 days ago
-4
I had to double check but you just commented to me that Taiwan is controlled by the US and now you are saying they are not....this is a little weird.
In the US, Hawaii is officially a state of the United States, yet some people there don't like being called Americans, they prefer Hawaiian. Puerto Rico is a territory of the US yet the people are not American but Puerto Rican. So this same principle could apply if (big if) Taiwan ever decides to be part of China.
-4
Kenichi22335 days ago
+4
I never said Taiwan was controlled by the US.
Also one of the main reasons the Taiwanese dont want to be part of China because Taiwan is a democracy and China is not. China has offered a two systems agreement like Hong Kong but given what happened in 2019 nobody is taking that offer seriously.
Also China has a habit of culture genocide for example in Tibet and Xinjiang.
4
Jae_Rides_Apes5 days ago
+1
You definitely said Taiwan is controlled by the US…
https://i.imgur.com/R4VlpUD.jpeg
1
Kenichi22335 days ago
+5
My bad that was a typo. I will edit the original comment
5
wmoonw5 days ago
+1
Again in my hypothetical, if in 50 years the US keeps making international mistakes like now with Trump or future American presidents can't control what Trump started now, the people of Taiwan are not going to care that the US is a democracy. The US also has a history of cultural genocide, no country is perfect.
1
Kenichi22335 days ago
+5
Again the Taiwan is its own country. It doesnt want to part of China.
The US doesnt have a say in this. Your entire premise is flawed
5
wmoonw5 days ago
I mean they are a country in limbo, most countries don't recognize Taiwan as an independent country, even the US doesn't officially recognize it (but the Americans give Taiwan a lot of support). That's why Taiwan has the option if they want to in the future "join" China. But again this won't be tomorrow, and it depends on world events if they even want to be associated with the US.
0
Mission_Scale_8605 days ago
+2
Hong Kong was forcibly joined
2
Zdzisiu5 days ago
+33
So all that Spanish talk against the US was to just lay down for China?
33
SeanBourne5 days ago
+23
I think it was about that from the beginning. Sanchez has always had these sympathies...
23
fitzgoldy5 days ago
+7
OK Spain..don't f*** up like Germany getting into bed with Russia.
7
DaySecure76425 days ago
+20
Spain really thinks that the enemy of the enemy is a friend so must also be an angel. This kind of naive, simplistic thinking will get Europe and the world suffer from another major catastrophe like WW1 and WW2.
Not all ideologies are worth being "multilateral" and in the interest of the EU and the world. Otherwise why even bother fighting Nazi Germany in WW2? Why even fought ISIS when they were spreading in the middle east and Africa? Why banning the far right parties in the EU? Just let them join the community of multilateralism then.
Clearly we actually want selected, good partners in multilateralism, not everyone out there. Ok then what do we stand for? Do we want to promote censorship, suppressing free press, freedom of speech, ethnic cleansing and human rights abuse? Do we support currency control, capital control, unfair government subsidies and IP theft in trading? Are these values and measures good for the EU and the World? China has been doing all that but should Spain and the EU just turn a blind eye on those?
I think the answers should be straight forward but Spain and some EU countries just want to take the easy way out to look "progressive", but not choose the tough path that is the best for itself and the world. If the EU is really thinking in terms of morality and the greater good, it should walk and advocate its own path in contrast to both the US AND China.
I will respect Span if it thinks that Unilateralism is bad, authoritarianism and deceptions are also not the right path for humanity. But no, Spain and lots of the EU countries are simply not at that level, but unfortunately just want to LOOK "progressive" to feel good about themselves. It is really disappointing.
If one day China gets too powerful and starts pushing authoritarianism beyond its borders, Spain and the EU are definitely responsible. It will be like WW2 when the stupid European countries pleasing Nazi Germany hoping to maintain peace but making it too strong later on that almost conquered all of Europe.
20
Additional-Name-32114 days ago
+4
>Spain really thinks that the enemy of the enemy is a friend so must also be an angel. (...) If one day China gets too powerful and starts pushing authoritarianism beyond its borders, Spain and the EU are definitely responsible.
I think you're taking what is essentially a standard diplomatic talk between two countries meant to ease trade and increase our options on the world stage a bit too dramatically. I can guarantee you that if China really starts pushing authoritarianism it won't be because of this meeting.
I do sympathise, and to a certain extent agree, with the EU having to start to search its own path and be more independent. But getting there means doing diplomacy and trade with other countries even if you don't personally agree with everything they do, and hopefully influence things in a better way. Trying to play world police, lecturing others from a position of structural weakness, making enemies and isolating ourselves is not only ineffectual, it's self-defeating.
4
tchomptchomp4 days ago
+3
Remember that Spain was fascist until the 70s and that therefore both left and right have a strong grounding in the Francoists.
3
Arya_Bark5 days ago
+8
Let's be real for a hot minute, if any global actor will be responsible for China or any superpower becoming too powerful, it will be the US blowing up the transatlantic alliance and isolating itself into irrelevance.
What a bizarre take, unreal to read.
8
Slow-Seaweed-52325 days ago
+4
God I hate Sanchez so much. It’s so clear as ever he’s really just a stupid tankie believing America bad and will unironically align with China and probably North Korea and Iran claiming he loves human rights in the next breath. Elections can’t come soon enough in Spain
4
Dull-Law32295 days ago
+3
China is the second largest contributor to the UN and WTO after the United States; of all the permanent UNSC members, they contribute the most peacekeeping forces.
They have a vested interest in keeping and supporting the multinational institutions where it has gained leadership. It provides stability. Just because China plays to win doesn't mean that it wants the game tossed out.
3
Sweet_Concept22114 days ago
+1
Is this the same China that is helping Russia evade sanctions after launching the largest European war since WWII?
Is this the same China that is supplying Russia with satellite intel for dropping thousands of bombs on Europeans?
Is this the same China that is shipping key weapons components to Russia, which then places Ukraine in the position of also having to buy from China in order to fight back?
Is this the China that supports North Korea, which sends weapons and soldiers to kill Europeans?
The same China that supports the regime in Iran which is sustaining Russia's drone program, and also sends its soldiers to help Russia in Ukraine?
China is doing everything in its power (except sending its own troops) to keep Russia's war on alive, which destabilizes Europe.
And that's the country Sanchez wants to get cozy with?
How much are they paying him?
1
[deleted]5 days ago
-22
[deleted]
-22
Stoned_urf5 days ago
+31
The shit that uninformed, unaware and uneducated average US person says.
31
asdhjasdhlkjashdhgf5 days ago
+9
know a bit about history?
Spain in talks with China is somewhat an very old (hi)story. Add brits, portugese, french and voilá the old world reveals itself, that one in which America is not yet fully discovered.
9
Sunlightningsnow5 days ago
+10
I mean the president is from the psoe and let me tell you their flag didn't always hold a rose 🙃
10
Heizard5 days ago
+8
Other choice - Pedophile US alliance where US throws you under the bus at any moment.
8
__Yakovlev__5 days ago
+6
No, the other choice would be the rest of the EU. Instead Spain chooses to go to china instead.
6
Kaztiell5 days ago
-6
as they should, since the rest of EU is also kinda messy atm
-6
__Yakovlev__5 days ago
+8
Comparing the EU to china is absolutely wild.
8
Kaztiell5 days ago
-4
ye, EU voting for nazis again in alot of countries, EU surely got bright future....
atleast china is focusing on education and new tech, instead of going back in history
-4
Extension-Toe-70275 days ago
-1
Hey man I know about alligator Alcatraz and ice not good, now do you remember about a certain demographic that was being hurled into reeducation camps in china, by the tens, if not hundreds of thousands? If you care about the Israelis attacking but not about those Muslims then something is funny and by the way a new American administration that is not Vance could solve any issues with Europe in 35 min, but china will always be china so maybe don't go singing their praises, I don't think they deserve it.
-1
Anhimidae5 days ago
+2
What a dumb comment.
2
Aggravating-Coast3355 days ago
+3
Why does this dictatorship matter? This is diplomacy, not domestic affairs, you idiot.
3
No-Cryptographer74945 days ago
-2
Huh aren't they already with the usa dictator?
-2
Middcore5 days ago
-5
Sit down, Spain. You haven't been relevant on the world stage in at least 250 years and that isn't going to change.
51 Comments